Cavs talking with Phoenix about Amare?

[just another fool]

He and Shaq didn't mesh well last year....I agree with the posters who want Jamison instead. More of a threat from outside, can play his game away from Oneal which will not clog up the middle of the offense.


Love Amare though. He's an awesome player IMO....

definitely agree. amare and lebron for the next several years is an exciting prospect.

JJ is a kid who has some potential, but like you said, he is definitely better suited for a team that can allow him to develop, not for a team that is trying for a championship NOW.

amare is definitely a dude who is good, but there is no way he can be the best player on a championship team, and hopefully he realizes that.

if this trade was available, no way i'd turn it down.

[aoxo1]

FWIW: Wally almost exclusively guarded the other teams four in those lineups.

I don't recall it being almost exclusively, but sure Wally guarded the opposing 4 a significant number of those minutes.

Regardless, even if James had NEVER played a minute at the 4 last season, there is no reason that he COULDN'T have if it made for a more effective lineup at times.

[JJN]

LeBron, Amare, Mo, Parker, Varegao.

Typing that lineup took me five minutes because I had to stop and cleanup the drool.

The optimist:

1)Perhaps Stoudamire can learn to play defense under Brown and Lebron's tutelage, much like Mo Williams really picked up that part of his game.
2)Stoudamire would solve all our matchup problems with long and athletic teams like Charlotte, OKC and Memphis.

The pessimist:

1)He won't resign here. Even if Lebron does, choosing to take the foolish Shawn Marion route.
2)He gets injured.


BTW, the Hickson/Gooden comparisons are entirely valid and appropriate

Number one, Amare's eye injury was a freak injury, that kind of thing has nothing to do with being injury prone.

Number two, the Hickson and Gooden comparison isn't appropriate. JJ has bad hands whereas Drew didn't comprehend object permanence, which is the only possible explanation as to why he was always shocked to see the ball coming to him. "Hey, I think I saw that orange globe earlier, but it went bye bye." *pass bounces off Gooden's face* "Goes bye bye again."

[e0y2e3]

RicBucher: On Amare: 7-8 teams interested. Not Cavs, which makes sense: Amare/Shaq didn't work in Phx, Amare not a stretch 4, doesn't play D, etc.

and JJN, until JJ Hickson figure out what "boxing out" is he is as stupid as Drew Gooden, IMO.

[Gradysmanldy]

+1, Eyore. Would have liked to see Lebron bitchslap Hickson, on national TV, immediately after that Beasley putback dunk from the free throw line. Force him to watch videos of sweaty old hairy dudes at the gym that have no problem with the concept and are .00001% as athletically gifted.

[e0y2e3]

Amare tells NBA FanHouse may not opt out of contract. Per Twitter. No article or link yet since on phone, peeks can make himself useful.

[peeker643]

Amare tells NBA FanHouse may not opt out of contract. Per Twitter. No article or link yet since on phone, peeks can make himself useful.

It's for $17million. That ought to have the Suns front office pissing down their leg.

Saw a Hollinger piece on this earlier. It was Insider so just a snippet:

Here's how the money works on Phoenix's end: Stoudemire can opt out of his contract over the summer and become an unrestricted free agent. He has talked openly about pursuing that option in order to pursue a maximum contract in a market where there are few other high-profile big men available.

Conversely, Stoudemire can decline the option and collect $17.6 million next season. From what I'm hearing, that's the alternative that has the Suns freaked out. Because Phoenix wants to rebuild before Steve Nash's magical powers expire, Stoudemire's status as a one-year rental for 2010-11 would push that process back another 12 months.

Who thinks Amare is worth $17m??

[Gradysmanldy]

Someone thought Elton Brand was worth, what, 14M? Im sure someone does.

[davemanddd]

what i want to know is why can't steve kerr be to old teammate danny ferry what kevin mchale was to his old teammate danny ainge and just give us amare for what really amounts to nothing but spare parts, salary cap relief and draft picks so that cleveland finally does win a title??? kerr got his rings with chicago and san antonio. now it's time to pony up and pay back his former team and teammate here in cleveland. hell, we could even give him a playoff share and another ring if he likes. he ain't never going to win a title in phoenix in the forseeable future while starting a 36-year old point guard and a 37-year old small forward with bionic feet, let alone a shooting guard who's only a legend in his own mind, so what's the point of holding onto amare when he clearly wants to become a free agent and leave in the off-season??? might as well get something for him now and help an old friend win a title in the process.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

kevin mchale was to his old teammate danny ainge and just give us amare for what really amounts to nothing but spare parts, salary cap relief and draft picks

Again, Al freakin' Jefferson. He's one of the top 5 low-post players in the league. Those guys don't exactly grow on trees. 10 years of Al Jefferson in Minnesota for 1 great year from KG before he became a gimp in Boston. Yeah he won a title for Boston but the point is, he wasn't gonna win a title in Minny.

[davemanddd]

kevin mchale was to his old teammate danny ainge and just give us amare for what really amounts to nothing but spare parts, salary cap relief and draft picks

Again, Al freakin' Jefferson. He's one of the top 5 low-post players in the league. Those guys don't exactly grow on trees. 10 years of Al Jefferson in Minnesota for 1 great year from KG before he became a gimp in Boston. Yeah he won a title for Boston but the point is, he wasn't gonna win a title in Minny.

point taken. jefferson is hardly a spare part. what i was referring to though was the players for the cavs being z and j.j. hickson. that being said, teams just don't seem to be willing to make a pau gasol from memphis to the lakers type of trade anymore in which they don't get much in return from the contending team beyond just cap relief. they don't want to be the so-called "loser" in any such deal knowing that whoever they give up will almost certainly help give the cavs the title.

[e0y2e3]

This shit is getting hot yo:

Sources: Hickson, Ilgauskas to Suns
Comment Email Print Share
By Chris Broussard
ESPN The Magaazine
Archive
The Cleveland Cavaliers and Phoenix Suns are closing in on a deal that would send All-Star forward Amare Stoudemire to Cleveland, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations.

The Cavaliers would send Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Phoenix in exchange for Stoudemire, one of the league's most dominant big man.

While Cleveland remains in talks with several other teams, the club, from management down to the players, has settled on Stoudemire as its first choice.

The ball is in Phoenix's court. The Suns are mulling whether the financial relief provided by Ilgauskas's $12 million contract and the young and talented Hickson are enough for them to part with Stoudemire.

Cleveland believes the addition of Stoudemire would all but seal LeBron James' re-signing with the team when he becomes a free agent this summer. The Cavaliers are also prepared to sign Stoudemire, who has one year and $17 million remaining on his contract, to a long-term contract extension once the season ends.

The Suns will likely waive Ilgauskas, which would allow him to be re-signed by Cleveland after 30 days.

Cleveland is also talking with Washington about acquiring Antawn Jamison, as well as Indiana about Troy Murphy. Meanwhile, Golden State is trying to entice the Cavs into taking Corey Maggette for Ilgauskas.

Trading JJ for JJ's absolute peak upside is just pure brilliance.

Now, should this go down, MB just has to convince Amare to pretend to try on D.

[jb]

I'm starting to get really psyched. This is sounding more nmore real.

This is our Gasol deal.

[e0y2e3]

I'm starting to get really psyched. This is sounding more nmore real.

This is our Gasol deal.

Would this put our title odds at 150%?

Edit: and it should be noted that Broussard doesn't break as much as a lot of the other guys but when he speaks he usually is dead nuts on.

[Lebowski]

Niiice.

Amare has flaws in his game, but all he has to do here is be a rich man's Hickson (dunk oops, cut to the basket, hit wide open mid-range jumpers). Would we try to sign him to an extension now or wait until the summer (and all that inevitable mayhem)?

[e0y2e3]

I'm fairly certain you cannot sign him now.

NBA extension rules are really odd. One of the few aspects of the CBA I never bothered to look into after realizing that Boozer was able to screw us because we could not extend him according to the CBA.

I'll maybe look it up later, but I know we were prevented from extending Boozer, that may be different than the Amare situation but the option facet is the same. Only difference would be rookie versus vet contract status.

[e0y2e3]

FWIW: the reason this could happen is that the Iggy deal fell apart and he is allegedly off the market altogether at this juncture and Miami doesn't want anything to do w/ Supercool Beas.

[Lebowski]

I'm fairly certain you cannot sign him now.

Not well versed in this minutia, but wouldnt a sign and trade work? (or would that throw off the salary 15% rule?)

[e0y2e3]

I'm fairly certain you cannot sign him now.

Not well versed in this minutia, but wouldnt a sign and trade work? (or would that throw off the salary 15% rule?)

No, I am fairly certain no one can extend him until after the season.

[StewieG]

I'm fairly certain you cannot sign him now.

Not well versed in this minutia, but wouldnt a sign and trade work? (or would that throw off the salary 15% rule?)

No, I am fairly certain no one can extend him until after the season.

This is correct. I believe Phoenix had until a certain date (the start of the season, maybe?) to sign Stoudamire to an extension, then once that date passed they can't sign him again until after the Finals.

[bookelly]

As long as we can get Z back, I'm all for it. I'd be happier if it was Wally and JJ...or Wally and draft picks. If rumors about West being involved are true - no way.

[e0y2e3]

I don't care if you get Z back or not.

If Powe has to be your fifth big so be it and I hope we are going to start seeing LBJ get a little more time at the four. We have 1K wing players that can let LBJ log legit minutes at the four if need be, BTW.

Odds are high Z would come back, but honestly the corpse of Z does not stop you from making this deal. Not for a second. Not for a nanosecond. Not for a femtosecond.

Amare can also play some center.

Good lord, hedging on getting 20 and 10 because we love Z.

[Ea$t $ide]

I don't care if you get Z back or not.

If Powe has to be your fifth big so be it and I hope we are going to start seeing LBJ get a little more time at the four. We have 1K wing players that can let LBJ log legit minutes at the four if need be, BTW.

Odds are high Z would come back, but honestly the corpse of Z does not stop you from making this deal. Not for a second. Not for a nanosecond. Not for a femtosecond.

Amare can also play some center.

Good lord, hedging on getting 20 and 10 because we love Z.

i couldn't agree more...the cavs have shown z plenty of loyalty throughout his career...he couldn't get a ring here? isn't part of that his fault? the cavaliers have paid the guy what? $100 million throughout his career? and a lot of that thru seasons he did not play at all? if we trade him now it will be to a team that wants to pay him to stop playing...i wish someone would show me that kind of loyalty...

[Ea$t $ide]

As long as we can get Z back, I'm all for it. I'd be happier if it was Wally and JJ...or Wally and draft picks. If rumors about West being involved are true - no way.

bookelly i am in love with the woman in your avatar...sorry if it's your wife or something...but she's my kind of gal...i want to do things to her that might get me arrested in some states....just sayin...

[Goozer]

I'm starting to get really psyched. This is sounding more nmore real.

This is our Gasol deal.

Would this put our title odds at 150%?

quote]
For about the next 5 years.

God good, I've seen this movie before. I just gknow the sucker punch is coming, just not sure today, tomorrow or on Memorial Day.

Post script - If this goes down I want Steve Kerr's #5 hanging from the rafters come opening night 2010/2011 with Howie Chizek doing the introduction.

[Goozer]

Windy coming up on Rizzo's show in 10 minutes, btw.

[swerb]

Just spotted entering a board room with Steve Kerr:

[Orenthal]

As long as we can get Z back, I'm all for it. I'd be happier if it was Wally and JJ...or Wally and draft picks. If rumors about West being involved are true - no way.

bookelly i am in love with the woman in your avatar...sorry if it's your wife or something...but she's my kind of gal...i want to do things to her that might get me arrested in some states....just sayin...

Lucky rabbit...

[Orenthal]

Trading Gump for a guy that will get all his looks and has game Gump dreams of has got me all hot and bothered...

[Doc]

Any word on if the Jason Richardson rumors are still on? Sounds doubtful, and that's perfectly fine with me, but just wondering.

[StewieG]

Cavs_Insider on Twitter says the deal is going to go down. No idea how legit he is, I just added him very recently, so take it FWIW.

Cavs_Insider

The Cavs for Stoudemire deal is going to go down.
2 minutes ago from web

[Anglefan]

He's not legit. It's just some guy who reads the message boards then acts like he has info.

[e0y2e3]

Cavs_Insider on Twitter says the deal is going to go down. No idea how legit he is, I just added him very recently, so take it FWIW.

Cavs_Insider

The Cavs for Stoudemire deal is going to go down.
2 minutes ago from web

That guy is a joke.

The fact that you are now following him is all he is in it for.

[e0y2e3]

Windy coming up on Rizzo's show in 10 minutes, btw.

So, uhm did he say anything of substance?

I mean, nothing is going to be announced today, which is awesome. Plenty of time for negotiations to break down.

[StewieG]

That guy is a joke.

The fact that you are now following him is all he is in it for.

He's not legit. It's just some guy who reads the message boards then acts like he has info.

Duly noted, and unfollowed.

[Ziner]

Trading JJ for JJ's absolute peak upside is just pure brilliance.

Now, should this go down, MB just has to convince Amare to pretend to try on D.

Nailed it, I would hope LBJ and MB can get to Amare and reinforce the fact that defense is played in Cleveland, unlike where he is coming from.

Add me to the team that if this deal goes down that doesnt give two hoots if Z comes back. If he does, great like it even more, but there is no way in hell it is preventing me from doing this deal. Get it done Ferry!

[Orenthal]

Said the deal is an obvious steal for the Cavaliers. Z being brought back making the deal JJ for Amare. Has no concerns of a personal problem between Shaq and Amare, just the fact they did not mesh well in PHO. Will Amare "fit in" like Shaq has and be a piece of a championship team, or will he be more concerned about getting his looks and a max deal. Windy sees the deal as high risk/high reward due to that concern. He likes Jamo better for this season, but understands that if Amare buys in it is by far a better talent deal for the Cavaliers.

Cavaliers do not want to trade JJ for a non all star that has more money left on thier deal. Amare continues the flexibility that Ferry craves and is an all star...

[e0y2e3]

To be fair, Amare will not be a worse defender than JJ. He has the weakside block skills and uses them (1.4 for career) and well, JJ has improved on D but he is still JJ.

[e0y2e3]

Said the deal is an obvious steal for the Cavaliers. Z being brought back making the deal JJ for Amare. Has no concerns of a personal problem between Shaq and Amare, just the fact they did not mesh well in PHO. Will Amare "fit in" like Shaq has and be a piece of a championship team, or will he be more concerned about getting his looks and a max deal. Windy sees the deal as high risk/high reward due to that concern. He likes Jamo better for this season, but understands that if Amare buys in it is by far a better talent deal for the Cavaliers.

Cavaliers do not want to trade JJ for a non all star that has more money left on thier deal. Amare continues the flexibility that Ferry craves and is an all star...

Yeah, that isn't the important aspect. Did he say anything on likelihood of it getting done?

[papacass]

Windy coming up on Rizzo's show in 10 minutes, btw.

So, uhm did he say anything of substance?

I mean, nothing is going to be announced today, which is awesome. Plenty of time for negotiations to break down.

1. He went down to Dallas thinking the Amare rumors were nothing but a Cavs smokescreen to bait the Wiz on Jamo. But he's talked to numerous people in the know down there, and they've all said that Amare to the Cavs is a green light.

2. He's concerned less about how Amare fits into the Cavs' schemes, since Amare's game has the same basic template as J.J.'s game (close to the basket, finishes at the rim, etc.) and more about Amare's motivation. If Amare wants to win a title, he'll take a backseat in touches and shots and try to fit in. If he's mostly concerned with his next contract, he could turn into a selfish, destructive black hole and shot-chucker.

3. If this all works out, an Amare-Shaq-LBJ frontcourt with Andy, Powe and a re-signed Z would give the Cavs the best, deepest frontcourt in the league. Would absoutely trump anything that any other team could throw at them.

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Yes, the Cavs could ink Amare to an extension immediately if he came to Cleveland and wanted to sign it.

An extension on an already extended contract can be signed at any point after the three year anniversary of signing the prior extension up until the contract ends. The same goes for non extended contracts.

The only time there is a window for an extension is when a player comes off a rookie scale contract. That window only lasts from the end of the July moratorium to October 31 prior to the last option year for the player.

LeBron and Amare would be able to extend at any time. Yet their best money play would be to not terminate their contracts and then sign an extension on the $17M they'd get if they played next year under their current contract terms, but they can't do that until July. If they extend now the extension would be based on their current ending salary I THINK. I could be wrong on that one. The language is a bit murky.

Thing to remember is that id the Cavs hold Bird Rights that they can pay a lot more than anyone else. No one could even come close to the $17.1M they are due next year if they don't terminate the deal. The maximum next year is likely to be $15M or even less if the cap dips below $50M. At worst the Cavs could offer $16.56M if he does end the contract. Anyone else would be $15M with lower annual raises.

For both Amare and James it wouldn't make any sense to leave the Cavs unless they feel another team could pay them close to that amount and be as close to a title - and the Cavs could have a title at that point when all is said and done.

[Anglefan]

He basically just whined for 20 minutes about how he's not sure if it's a good move. When asked to put a percentage on the likelihood, he just said he spoke to five people yesterday who all said it was going to get done, but he doesn't know. Windy doesn't seem to grasp the fact that this is the Cavs last chance to get an all star caliber player. After Thursday, that's it. We lose our expirings and are already way over the cap for the foreseeable future. So him having admitted that Amare is a better long term solution than Jamison, I don't see why he wouldn't say this is the best move the Cavs can make.

[papacass]

Windy Twitter: "Sources say no Stoudemire trade today, he's playing in All-Star Gm for PHX after all. But Cavs hoping for yes or no by early in week."

[Goozer]

Windy:

- Really, really surprised that this is possibly going to go down
- Deal is close, more and more likely according to everyone else he is talking to, altho nothing going to happen today
- Cavs likely would impose a deadline of later tomorrow to provide ample time to move on if possible
- Ball is in PHX court
- LbJ has spent time this weekend directly with STAT and is selling him on how it would work
- Believes that STAT brings high, high level of risk
- STAT wants to be a max player - will demand a 5 yr/100mm contract
- To get max contract, risk is definitely there that STAT would not buy in to being a 4th or (best case) 3rd option on this team
- LbJ is telling FO and owner that he can make it work
- From a pure trade/talen perspective, this is a "steal" that Ferry thrives on ... being able to leverage Gilberts wallet
- Would be better than Amon Ones for Mo
- JJ is great personality, kid, teammate, but deal for STAT is a no brainer
- Can easily find another JJ
- Cavs front line after Z comes back would be best in NBA, incredibly deep and impose will on rest of NBA
- Cavs actually like that STAT basically will opt out a year end ... if it doesn't work, move on
- Believes Jamo would be better fit this year ... he would be entirely seamless fit
- STAT will bring adjustemnt problems right away ... similar to Shaq at beginning of season
- STAT is clearly a better long term fit; however, that is no-brainer
- Again reiterated that STAT may not fit and buy in to only getting 8-10 shots a game some nights - worried that he won't be able to become max player this way
- Jamo easily fit and would defintitely make Cavs favorite this year, STAT - down side risk is he doesn't work and no championship and you blow your one remaining bullet and shoot a blank
- So short term/long term is THE debate
- Believes Ferry is on the 'long' term side of things (STAT)
- Believes that LbJ will stay regardless of STAT, Jamo, no trade ...
- However if STAT deal goes through and doesn't work out, he seemed to indicate that would lay groundwork for longer term problems (didn't say so, but implication was no title this year, LbJ resigns yet might lead to leaving in 3 years)
- LbJ has talked often about loveing to watch old 80's NBA where multiple HOFers were on each team - well with he, Shaq and STAT this would be similar

[Orenthal]

Riz tried to get him to put the likelyhood into a %, but Windy didn't bite. Said that it is greenlighted and that all the Cavaliers rep's have a pep in their step. Ball is in PHO's court...

[Anglefan]

- Believes that LbJ will stay regardless of STAT, Jamo, no trade ...

He didn't say this one. He never said he thought LBJ was leaving, but he oddly harped on the point of how different scenarios would affect his decision. I think it's pretty obvious that LeBron isn't going anywhere, but Windy is just a negative person in general and his tone is always that of extreme doubt and cynicism.

[e0y2e3]

What about those of you that muck through the crap at RCF. Any noncommittal updates from W&G?

[Goozer]

- Believes that LbJ will stay regardless of STAT, Jamo, no trade ...

He didn't say this one. He never said he thought LBJ was leaving, but he oddly harped on the point of how different scenarios would affect his decision. I think it's pretty obvious that LeBron isn't going anywhere, but Windy is just a negative person in general and his tone is always that of extreme doubt and cynicism.

Bull Shit.

[Anglefan]

What about those of you that muck through the crap at RCF. Any noncommittal updates from W&G?

There will be no getting on that site for anyone for the next few days. Maybe between 1AM and 5AM you'll be able to get on, but other than that I'd expect the site to be down.

[Anglefan]

Bull Shit.

No, you heard wrong. I don't see how anyone could listen to that and not hear the constant negativity.