"Big Baby" vs. the Pistons

[fundamentals]

Alright, which board user traveled to Auburn Hills last night and verbally abused Glen Davis?

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/ne ... id=4844874

[peeker643]

Alright, which board user traveled to Auburn Hills last night and verbally abused Glen Davis?

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/ne ... id=4844874

Is 'Big Baby' just the shorter and nicer version of 'Fat, Immature, Crybaby Asshole'?

If so, makes sense.

[Ea$t $ide]

I am a fan that heckles players whenever I am clsoe enough for them to hear it but I always have a couple rules about what I say.

1 - No cursing. I have kids. I wouldn't want someone shouting obscenities in front of them and I wouldn't do it to someone elses kids.


2 - Be good natured about it. Now if this fan just yelled hey fatso lose some weight and Davis blew up, well, he's being kind of a wimp about it. Of course that probably wasn't all that was said.


What's Davis doing listening to the crowd anyway? Dude, try focusing on the game. Sheesh.

[papacass]

Missing in all of this is the larger issue -- Boston has no bench.

Remeber when Sheed and Shelden Williams were supposed to cure that? They didn't. Sheed is now starting because KG's knees are slowly turning to mush. Even if KG comes back in the next week, odds are good he'll be on the shelf again before the end of the season.

Beyond that, you have Crybaby, who isn't even worth 7 PPG. You have T-Allen and House, who are right around 7 PPG. Neither can do much besides shoot.

When Boston won the title two years ago, they had previously no-name players like House, T-Allen, Crybaby and Powe step up and help them win games. They gleaned impact players like Sam Cassell and P.J. Brown off the clearance rack. They had James Posey coming off the bench.

Last year, they had significantly less of that. This year, nothing of the sort.

The C's have the best starting five in the East when everyone is healthy and clicking. But you start to factor in injuries and age, and suddenly that non-entity of a bench starts to really become a factor. That's why I say the C's problems go much deeper than just missing KG.

[AK-ROWDY]

hell look at the difference in the way the two teams play and I think it it comes down to very similar situations happening for each team and the reaction that the players showed. When Big Baby gets heckled he goes off screaming at the fan. Boston plays so uptight that anything might blow them up. They lead the league in technical fouls. Cleveland plays such a fun game of ball that when a heckler tried to get inside Delonte's head during Clippers game, Delonte starts clapping along and flashes that grin of his. The bench was busting up laughing during the foul shots. Its so easy to root for these guys.

[e0y2e3]

Missing in all of this is the larger issue -- Boston has no bench.

Remeber when Sheed and Shelden Williams were supposed to cure that? They didn't. Sheed is now starting because KG's knees are slowly turning to mush. Even if KG comes back in the next week, odds are good he'll be on the shelf again before the end of the season.

Beyond that, you have Crybaby, who isn't even worth 7 PPG. You have T-Allen and House, who are right around 7 PPG. Neither can do much besides shoot.

When Boston won the title two years ago, they had previously no-name players like House, T-Allen, Crybaby and Powe step up and help them win games. They gleaned impact players like Sam Cassell and P.J. Brown off the clearance rack. They had James Posey coming off the bench.

Last year, they had significantly less of that. This year, nothing of the sort.

The C's have the best starting five in the East when everyone is healthy and clicking. But you start to factor in injuries and age, and suddenly that non-entity of a bench starts to really become a factor. That's why I say the C's problems go much deeper than just missing KG.

Well, missing Daniels is huge as well.

And if the early reports that a ton of buyouts could happen this year are true look for the Lake Show and C's to bring in some fresh talent.

[RickNashEquilibrium]

Missing in all of this is the larger issue -- Boston has no bench.

Remeber when Sheed and Shelden Williams were supposed to cure that? They didn't. Sheed is now starting because KG's knees are slowly turning to mush. Even if KG comes back in the next week, odds are good he'll be on the shelf again before the end of the season.

Beyond that, you have Crybaby, who isn't even worth 7 PPG. You have T-Allen and House, who are right around 7 PPG. Neither can do much besides shoot.

When Boston won the title two years ago, they had previously no-name players like House, T-Allen, Crybaby and Powe step up and help them win games. They gleaned impact players like Sam Cassell and P.J. Brown off the clearance rack. They had James Posey coming off the bench.

Last year, they had significantly less of that. This year, nothing of the sort.

The C's have the best starting five in the East when everyone is healthy and clicking. But you start to factor in injuries and age, and suddenly that non-entity of a bench starts to really become a factor. That's why I say the C's problems go much deeper than just missing KG.

Well, missing Daniels is huge as well.

And if the early reports that a ton of buyouts could happen this year are true look for the Lake Show and C's to bring in some fresh talent.

I dont see how the C's problems go deeper than KG considering their splits with/without him. They won 14 of 15 games going into December, 8 of which were on the road. They were 26-9 before Garnett went down and soon after went on a really bad stretch. They've lost 5 of 7 and 8 of 12 to some bad competition which might lend some credence that their depth is a question mark. I won't dispute that fact, but KG is still a superior interior defender and he is the pivotal crux in their scheme. Perk defends the paint and can post-up but in no way brings the same level of versatility. EY - I'm with you that not having Daniels compromises the Celtics against decent backcourts. He provids a different look at the 2 and brings way more to the table defensively than Allen and Allen. Watched some of last night's game and the proof is in the puddin' - Stuckey, who Daniels would have drawn an assignment from, scorched the Cs inside and outside. Kid was a beast in the paint and had a great night on the boards (6 offensive).

*EDIT - the skinny of my post wasn't to dispute the bench arguement. Im with ya Cass - but its the same issue with the Cavs. If LeBron went down, hell even with Mo going down, the Cavs aren't even a playoff team. Put it this way, if KG is playing, Boston is a bonafide threat in the east bar-none. The what-ifs apply to everyone. IMO - KGs presence on the court mitigates the lack of quality bench depth. Call me crazy.

[Ziner]

hell even with Mo going down, the Cavs aren't even a playoff team.

Whoa, settle down there Rick. The Cavs arent a playoff team with out Mo? I guess we will find out tonight and the next few weeks (probably). Perhaps you didnt mean to be so extreme but Mo Williams does not make the difference between this team being the 1 seed and the 9 seed. No way, no how.

[RickNashEquilibrium]

hell even with Mo going down, the Cavs aren't even a playoff team.

Whoa, settle down there Rick. The Cavs arent a playoff team with out Mo? I guess we will find out tonight and the next few weeks (probably). Perhaps you didnt mean to be so extreme but Mo Williams does not make the difference between this team being the 1 seed and the 9 seed. No way, no how.

WHOA! Sorry about that, wow that sentence was fucked up. Again, sorry I'm doing this from my Blackberry. I know that sentence implied without Mo we arent a playoff team - I did NOT mean to word it that way.

[Ziner]

hell even with Mo going down, the Cavs aren't even a playoff team.

Whoa, settle down there Rick. The Cavs arent a playoff team with out Mo? I guess we will find out tonight and the next few weeks (probably). Perhaps you didnt mean to be so extreme but Mo Williams does not make the difference between this team being the 1 seed and the 9 seed. No way, no how.

WHOA! Sorry about that, wow that sentence was fucked up. Again, sorry I'm doing this from my Blackberry. I know that sentence implied without Mo we arent a playoff team - I did NOT mean to word it that way.

I figured, just checkin

[RickNashEquilibrium]

In all seriousness, call me out when I post takes that blatently disgard logic and reasoning. Sometimes I am that stupid, but its more likely I'm typing like a maniac during a meeting or just multitasking which can lead to some serious blunders in sentence structure (I hate deleting a ton of stuff on the Blackberry so Ill just clean up the mess later when someone does a double-take on one of my posts).

[Gradysmanldy]

Missing in all of this is the larger issue -- Boston has no bench.

Remeber when Sheed and Shelden Williams were supposed to cure that? They didn't. Sheed is now starting because KG's knees are slowly turning to mush. Even if KG comes back in the next week, odds are good he'll be on the shelf again before the end of the season.

Beyond that, you have Crybaby, who isn't even worth 7 PPG. You have T-Allen and House, who are right around 7 PPG. Neither can do much besides shoot.

When Boston won the title two years ago, they had previously no-name players like House, T-Allen, Crybaby and Powe step up and help them win games. They gleaned impact players like Sam Cassell and P.J. Brown off the clearance rack. They had James Posey coming off the bench.

Last year, they had significantly less of that. This year, nothing of the sort.

The C's have the best starting five in the East when everyone is healthy and clicking. But you start to factor in injuries and age, and suddenly that non-entity of a bench starts to really become a factor. That's why I say the C's problems go much deeper than just missing KG.

Agreed on the starting 5; even Perkins has steadily improved into one of the better centers in the East. His defense, if nothing else, warrants his minutes.

When Boston went on their championship run, they got huge contributions off the bench in the playoffs from Posey, Brown, and House. House has been down across the board, Tony Allen is completely useless on offense, and Shelden Williams has just been average.

Do they have anything for trade bait? If they could get a moderately useful point guard for when Rondo is on the bench and some kind of depth in their front court, they could still be a force. Otherwise, they should be very afraid of the 6/7th seed if it ends up being Toronto or Charlotte.

[British_Pharaoh]

The fan has a lot of nerve to file the complaint. If you incessantly prod at someone you're bound to spark a reaction.
Ok if media outlets caught what Big baby said on their mics then fine the NBA can discipline him but if I was Stern I'd say to the fan.
"Stop acting like a penis and watch the game."

[e0y2e3]

Missing in all of this is the larger issue -- Boston has no bench.

Remeber when Sheed and Shelden Williams were supposed to cure that? They didn't. Sheed is now starting because KG's knees are slowly turning to mush. Even if KG comes back in the next week, odds are good he'll be on the shelf again before the end of the season.

Beyond that, you have Crybaby, who isn't even worth 7 PPG. You have T-Allen and House, who are right around 7 PPG. Neither can do much besides shoot.

When Boston won the title two years ago, they had previously no-name players like House, T-Allen, Crybaby and Powe step up and help them win games. They gleaned impact players like Sam Cassell and P.J. Brown off the clearance rack. They had James Posey coming off the bench.

Last year, they had significantly less of that. This year, nothing of the sort.

The C's have the best starting five in the East when everyone is healthy and clicking. But you start to factor in injuries and age, and suddenly that non-entity of a bench starts to really become a factor. That's why I say the C's problems go much deeper than just missing KG.

Agreed on the starting 5; even Perkins has steadily improved into one of the better centers in the East. His defense, if nothing else, warrants his minutes.

When Boston went on their championship run, they got huge contributions off the bench in the playoffs from Posey, Brown, and House. House has been down across the board, Tony Allen is completely useless on offense, and Shelden Williams has just been average.

Do they have anything for trade bait? If they could get a moderately useful point guard for when Rondo is on the bench and some kind of depth in their front court, they could still be a force. Otherwise, they should be very afraid of the 6/7th seed if it ends up being Toronto or Charlotte.

When Daniels and KG get healthy depth (beyond a backup PG) is fine.

Granted w/ those two keeping them healthy is another issue altogether.

And a backup PG can be found later, just like Brown was. Their bench this year (if Daniels is healthy) is equal to their bench from their title run already.

Christ, when Sam I Am was in against the Cavs I was HAPPY he was so bad in the playoffs that year.

And I agree w/ all you wrote intentionally Ricky.

[aoxo1]

Missing in all of this is the larger issue -- Boston has no bench.

Remeber when Sheed and Shelden Williams were supposed to cure that? They didn't. Sheed is now starting because KG's knees are slowly turning to mush. Even if KG comes back in the next week, odds are good he'll be on the shelf again before the end of the season.

Beyond that, you have Crybaby, who isn't even worth 7 PPG. You have T-Allen and House, who are right around 7 PPG. Neither can do much besides shoot.

When Boston won the title two years ago, they had previously no-name players like House, T-Allen, Crybaby and Powe step up and help them win games. They gleaned impact players like Sam Cassell and P.J. Brown off the clearance rack. They had James Posey coming off the bench.

Last year, they had significantly less of that. This year, nothing of the sort.

The C's have the best starting five in the East when everyone is healthy and clicking. But you start to factor in injuries and age, and suddenly that non-entity of a bench starts to really become a factor. That's why I say the C's problems go much deeper than just missing KG.

Agreed on the starting 5; even Perkins has steadily improved into one of the better centers in the East. His defense, if nothing else, warrants his minutes.

When Boston went on their championship run, they got huge contributions off the bench in the playoffs from Posey, Brown, and House. House has been down across the board, Tony Allen is completely useless on offense, and Shelden Williams has just been average.

Do they have anything for trade bait? If they could get a moderately useful point guard for when Rondo is on the bench and some kind of depth in their front court, they could still be a force. Otherwise, they should be very afraid of the 6/7th seed if it ends up being Toronto or Charlotte.

When Daniels and KG get healthy depth (beyond a backup PG) is fine.

Granted w/ those two keeping them healthy is another issue altogether.

And a backup PG can be found later, just like Brown was. Their bench this year (if Daniels is healthy) is equal to their bench from their title run already.

Christ, when Sam I Am was in against the Cavs I was HAPPY he was so bad in the playoffs that year.

And I agree w/ all you wrote intentionally Ricky.

Was KG even really healthy when he was healthy?

[e0y2e3]

60% of KG is enough if the rest of the team is firing on all cylinders. Perk and Rondo have become so much better than they were in '07 they don't need much from KG beyond good D, a little O and great leadership.

[noles1]

Disagree. They need their bigs to be atheletic against the Cavs. When Garnett is a shell of the player he once was, they have major issues.

As for this crap, I am just loving Doc Rivers. Anyone with the audacity to point to this situation and liken it to Martin Luther King deserves a ton of respect for being able to get some idiot reporter to actually print it.

[e0y2e3]

Disagree. They need their bigs to be atheletic against the Cavs. When Garnett is a shell of the player he once was, they have major issues.

As for this crap, I am just loving Doc Rivers. Anyone with the audacity to point to this situation and liken it to Martin Luther King deserves a ton of respect for being able to get some idiot reporter to actually print it.

Why?

60% of KG can shut Andy, Hickson, etc down and Perk is the best post defender in the league arguably.

If KG can still protect the lane w/ Perk they are fine. And KG has never been an offensive force against Andy, Andy was made to guard KG.

[e0y2e3]

And an old KG can still guard Rashard.

[noles1]

60% of KG does not allow them to take advantage of the one thing they have against us offensively. The Pick and Roll. With Garnett in that (60%-75%) kind of condition we are talking about Shaq or Z being able to easily guard him. He's already a slow footed, afraid-of-the-post jump shooter that would only hinder him more. The only lineup I have worried about from the Celts is the KG & Wallace one but fortunately Rasheed is damn near useless at this point. He's woefully out of shape and actually getting worse by the game, it's great. The concern with that lineup was they could pick and roll us to death (when healthy and in shape), get jump shots and 3's whever they wanted and we couldn't come down and conversely score on them consistently, IMO.

As it stands now, that point is moot. That said, IF Boston can get healthy and find some magic pixie dust then maybe they still have a shot.

Defensively, Perk would guard Shaq or Z. Z would have an advantage in that he can bring him out of his comfort zone. I don't worry about JJ because frankly if Powe is back, JJ doesnt have playoff minutes. Can't wait to see KG or Sheed banging around with him on the low block.

And honestly, at this point in their careers... I don't think KG or Sheed can keep up with Andy over the length of a series from an aspect of what each is expected to bring to a game. Andy energy-wise will be extremely difficult to match.

That's my take.

[e0y2e3]

60% of KG does not allow them to take advantage of the one thing they have against us offensively. The Pick and Roll. With Garnett in that (60%-75%) kind of condition we are talking about Shaq or Z being able to easily guard him. He's already a slow footed, afraid-of-the-post jump shooter that would only hinder him more. The only lineup I have worried about from the Celts is the KG & Wallace one but fortunately Rasheed is damn near useless at this point. He's woefully out of shape and actually getting worse by the game, it's great. The concern with that lineup was they could pick and roll us to death (when healthy and in shape), get jump shots and 3's whever they wanted and we couldn't come down and conversely score on them consistently, IMO.

As it stands now, that point is moot. That said, IF Boston can get healthy and find some magic pixie dust then maybe they still have a shot.

Defensively, Perk would guard Shaq or Z. Z would have an advantage in that he can bring him out of his comfort zone. I don't worry about JJ because frankly if Powe is back, JJ doesnt have playoff minutes. Can't wait to see KG or Sheed banging around with him on the low block.

And honestly, at this point in their careers... I don't think KG or Sheed can keep up with Andy over the length of a series from an aspect of what each is expected to bring to a game. Andy energy-wise will be extremely difficult to match.

That's my take.

The Celtic's didn't P&R us to death in 2007.

Offensively I think having to guard Rondo now and having to guard Perk now more than makes up for it.

Ugly defensive series, as before, IMO.

[noles1]

Agree ugly series. You'll have that with our offensive "direction" and Doc driving home the physical play aspect.

Also agree about 2007 BUT I would claim the Celts are far from 2007 on this roster. Their stars have went thru one too many wars and need the advantage of the P&R and those ugly games to really beat us.

When healthy, they have a decent bench. Problem is. They banked on Daniels, KG's knee, Rasheed's will power and Ray/Peirce's invulnerability. They lost in all those. If this team isn't healthy, especially with KG I just don't see much from them. I think it's a 6-gamer or an "easy 7 gamer" IMO. (easy 7-gamer meaning we are never really challenged at home)

I am a big Rondo fan now but I just don't know how a guy that is useless outside of 14 ft can consistently hurt defenses in the playoffs. I like Perk but is he that big of an impact? I mean, that's why we have Shaq, right? Everything I hear from folks on here is Dewey, Bynum and (I guess) Perkins is why we have the Diesel.

[e0y2e3]

Agree ugly series. You'll have that with our offensive "direction" and Doc driving home the physical play aspect.

Also agree about 2007 BUT I would claim the Celts are far from 2007 on this roster. Their stars have went thru one too many wars and need the advantage of the P&R and those ugly games to really beat us.

When healthy, they have a decent bench. Problem is. They banked on Daniels, KG's knee, Rasheed's will power and Ray/Peirce's invulnerability. They lost in all those. If this team isn't healthy, especially with KG I just don't see much from them. I think it's a 6-gamer or an "easy 7 gamer" IMO. (easy 7-gamer meaning we are never really challenged at home)

I am a big Rondo fan now but I just don't know how a guy that is useless outside of 14 ft can consistently hurt defenses in the playoffs. I like Perk but is he that big of an impact? I mean, that's why we have Shaq, right? Everything I hear from folks on here is Dewey, Bynum and (I guess) Perkins is why we have the Diesel.

Agreed, but Rondo can get to the hoop like mad now, no more LBJ free safety D we played against them (and the Magic, ha). And no more just leaving Perk alone (which is my other point). We played our advantage of not having to guard two players on that team to death in 2007 and that is gone now.

If KG isn't healthy they can beat us, but it comes down to Paul being Paul and not being old. He has to be "the man." Which is an entirely different question. I almost made the point that a non-100% KG means Ray Ray has to be sinking his shots and Paul has to dig deep into himself and show up as a man child, not an old man. Those are two huge variables.

[noles1]

Maybe it's my own arrogance but when Wally can guard Ray Ray, I almost just cancel him out. Seems to me he ONLY hurts us in transition.

I don't think Paul has that in him but for a couple games in a series. Plus he HAS to guard Lebron for possibly 7 games... no more Posey. Still don't think we are all that worried if Perk wants to shoot 8-10 footers all night. (just as they aren't if Andy does)

The chances of KG being healthy are slim to none at this stage in his career. Unless Bill Walton has a 1 year remedy for him. Rondo can get to the rim but I think what he would prefer to do is pass when there, whereas, we will force him to the line or just force him to be selfish. Obviously, he has shown to be more selfish but in the playoffs against us on, maybe, the 2nd biggest stage, I'll take my chances if he can beat us vs. Lebron.

Last comment before bed... we were a PJ fuckin Brown away from winning a Game 7 in their place with that 2007 roster. Celts have a couple months to right the ship, obviously, but if we are talking right now I'm not sure they even make if the ECF against us. (That goes for the Magic right now too.) Still I think 1 of those 2 will ultimately be there but I think it is worth mentioning right now.

[e0y2e3]

Maybe it's my own arrogance but when Wally can guard Ray Ray, I almost just cancel him out. Seems to me he ONLY hurts us in transition.

I don't think Paul has that in him but for a couple games in a series. Plus he HAS to guard Lebron for possibly 7 games... no more Posey. Still don't think we are all that worried if Perk wants to shoot 8-10 footers all night. (just as they aren't if Andy does)

The chances of KG being healthy are slim to none at this stage in his career. Unless Bill Walton has a 1 year remedy for him. Rondo can get to the rim but I think what he would prefer to do is pass when there, whereas, we will force him to the line or just force him to be selfish. Obviously, he has shown to be more selfish but in the playoffs against us on, maybe, the 2nd biggest stage, I'll take my chances if he can beat us vs. Lebron.

Last comment before bed... we were a PJ fuckin Brown away from winning a Game 7 in their place with that 2007 roster. Celts have a couple months to right the ship, obviously, but if we are talking right now I'm not sure they even make if the ECF against us. (That goes for the Magic right now too.) Still I think 1 of those 2 will ultimately be there but I think it is worth mentioning right now.

Last comments from me, Daniels can guard LBJ for Posey type stretches if healthy (which doesn't exactly happen often) and I HAVE to chalk that Ray Ray series up to a shooter going cold, not Wally. I just cannot believe anything else. As for Paul, he has pulled it off before, but we will see and it is a huge question. And don't forget Rondo's trip dubs out the wazoo in the playoffs last year.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

The fan has a lot of nerve to file the complaint. If you incessantly prod at someone you're bound to spark a reaction.
Ok if media outlets caught what Big baby said on their mics then fine the NBA can discipline him but if I was Stern I'd say to the fan.
"Stop acting like a penis and watch the game."

I agree. As much as I dislike Davis, he has every right to fire back at some awful jackass in the stands. It seems the fan can dish it out and can't take it.

[noles1]

Duplicate message.

[noles1]

Maybe it's my own arrogance but when Wally can guard Ray Ray, I almost just cancel him out. Seems to me he ONLY hurts us in transition.

I don't think Paul has that in him but for a couple games in a series. Plus he HAS to guard Lebron for possibly 7 games... no more Posey. Still don't think we are all that worried if Perk wants to shoot 8-10 footers all night. (just as they aren't if Andy does)

The chances of KG being healthy are slim to none at this stage in his career. Unless Bill Walton has a 1 year remedy for him. Rondo can get to the rim but I think what he would prefer to do is pass when there, whereas, we will force him to the line or just force him to be selfish. Obviously, he has shown to be more selfish but in the playoffs against us on, maybe, the 2nd biggest stage, I'll take my chances if he can beat us vs. Lebron.

Last comment before bed... we were a PJ fuckin Brown away from winning a Game 7 in their place with that 2007 roster. Celts have a couple months to right the ship, obviously, but if we are talking right now I'm not sure they even make if the ECF against us. (That goes for the Magic right now too.) Still I think 1 of those 2 will ultimately be there but I think it is worth mentioning right now.

Last comments from me, Daniels can guard LBJ for Posey type stretches if healthy (which doesn't exactly happen often) and I HAVE to chalk that Ray Ray series up to a shooter going cold, not Wally. I just cannot believe anything else. As for Paul, he has pulled it off before, but we will see and it is a huge question. And don't forget Rondo's trip dubs out the wazoo in the playoffs last year.

Just can't help myself to comment on the Daniels thing...

There is no way that Daniels can be as "effective" as Posey was. (looking back LBJ wasn't exactly held in check in the series) Peirce is their only guy to check him, particularly in the playoffs. If Lebron gets Daniels matched up and doesn't severly abuse him then I will be SEVERLY disappointed. If Boston tries to live and die with that for anything longer than a few minutes a game, I think it spells disaster for them.

As for Ray-Ray, you very well may be right but in a half court game, Delonte and Parker should be able to handle him fairly well.