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Cleveland Cavaliers & The NBA

Orlando Magic

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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:27 am

e0y2e3 wrote:And if you are going to start taking issue w/ calling stupid posts stupid then I formally request you start deleting one line idiocracies.


Deleting idiotic posts would reduce the Indians board to a pile of smoldering rubble.
There would be a thread title, a post or two, one of the Cancer Club would weigh in and then lock down would ensue nano-seconds after they hit the submit button.

In all honesty, it would reduce server capacity needs 80% all across the site. The bad news being that some of the humps would then be discouraged, leave and then take to the streets and interact with society, likely causing irreparable damage.

It's better for the site and humanity if it's dealt with here as it has been in the past. :cheers:

Unless Rich will re-consider the 'Death Panel' idea I previously submitted. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby papacass » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:13 am

e0y2e3 wrote:East Side, just so you know turning to little man arguments and ignoring all of the points one makes (as well as refusing to read said persons posts in there entirety while commenting on them) is a sign of idiocracy.

If you want to contribute, read think and post. Don't snip small points and post pointless replies.

This isn't fucking rocket science.

And FTR Cass, if this forum becomes a cannot be colorful while posting place that is fine, I just won't be taking part. The thing that has always made TCF is it following what CS was and people being able to call people stupid when they are stupid. If you want a change in direction, fine w/ me, but the reason I came here was the old school rules that this place was founded upon.

And if you are going to start taking issue w/ calling stupid posts stupid then I formally request you start deleting one line idiocracies.

This started w/ locking the Gil gun charges thread and seems to be a new theme.


I'm not angling for a change in direction here, but I'm also not going to sit by and let threads disintegrate into personal attacks, whether from the attacker or the attackee. I know that calling out stupid takes as such is one of the truths you hold to be self-evident. Believe me, I'm right there with you on that. I hate stupid takes.

But I also know that if you think you have a fish on the line, you're going to keep pulling until you get a total meltdown or the fish wriggles off the line. In some cases, it's a controlled detonation that actually does the board some good. In other cases (some involving you, some not), I think it's a petty argument that roars into a raging conflagration, where someone is dropping rampant F-bombs and telling someone else to go sodomize themselves with various household objects... you get the idea.

Those are the thread locks I want to avoid. That's why I figured I'd say something up front to both of you. Not trying to be the schoolmarm, trying to make sure this thread doesn't get to the point of beyond repair, like the Gil Arenas thread.

EDIT: And yes, that Gil Arenas thread was beyond repair.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:21 am

This started w/ locking the Gil gun charges thread and seems to be a new theme.
I got Cass' back on the Gilbert Gump thread. No good what so ever was going to come out of it considering how the last couple posts of the back n forth were going.

IMO we (meaning 99% of all posters, but maybe more so those of us with familiarity w/each other over the years) sometimes forget this/these boards are somebody's blood, sweat & tears and they have a vested interest in the success of the board, regardless of whether it is for profit or not. As much as these places create a sense of camaraderie between participants they also create a subtle sense of freedom in which we all think we can use the board as we please.

There are very few things we cannot use these boards for is my guess, and where that thread was going to end up is one of those few things.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby Ea$t $ide » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:04 am

In the end, frankly, I'm glad the Magic did what they did. Because they basically took themselves out of the running. Good luck with Vince Carter and the band of 6th men they have assembled. LBJ will tea bag Vince like he always does. Shaq will foul out Howard and the Cavaliers will take out the Magic this year if they meet them in the playoffs.


I agree with the personal stuff and frankly I was just trying to have a decent back and forth until the little fella with the potty mouth had a spasm....

As for my take, I stand by it...if a player is scoring 18 ppg on 49%FG and 50% (50!) from downtown, that player is giving the team he's playing a matchup problem. And right on cue, the Magic lose to LA last night and Hedo's replacement went for 9 points on 3-11 shooting. LOL. And Dewey had 25 and 12 so give up blaming him. Scoreboard doesn't lie. Tha Magic are a worse team without Hedo, Skip and Courtney. Period.


ps, let me just add that i'm not here to be proven right or make anyone else feel like a jerk for their opinions...and i'm certainly not going to go on an f-bomb fueled rant at someone i don't even know over a sport i don't get paid to be involved with. if that's someone elses gig, good for them.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:28 am

Seriously, East Side, Vince is just coming back from injury and looked like shit, no doubt.

But are no capable of addressing ANY of the points I raised w/ anything but box scores?

Christ, seriously, read my posts about match-ups and the Magic's problems or stop posting on them. This isn't fucking rocket science, yet again.

And did you watch the game last night?

And did ANYONE here try to say the Magic were better off this year in any way but on paper?

Did ANYONE here try to say that Magic didn't have a long way to go to figure out how to take advantage of the roster they put together?

Did the Magic have a chance against the Lake Show in the playoffs last year w/ Hedo?

Have you watched a single Magic game that didn't involve the Cavs in two years?

I understand that putting together a thought above a fourth grade level and looking at roster flexiblity, match-ups, etc is hard to do, but try or stop posting. You have not addressed a single point I have made w/ anything but a few lines from a box score.

And did ANYONE say Dewey hasn't shown flashes of being great this year, but has been a head case the majority of the time? 3.9 Fouls per 36 minutes doesn't lie and being in foul trouble, unlike just using PPG tells a nice story about a player having to sit on the bench.

If you are not able to grasp the discussion and don't watch the games sit out what is going on around you here.

PS: Did you even know that we ran the LBJ free safety D against the Magic last year? Ten bucks you didn't.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:32 am

FUDU wrote:
This started w/ locking the Gil gun charges thread and seems to be a new theme.
I got Cass' back on the Gilbert Gump thread. No good what so ever was going to come out of it considering how the last couple posts of the back n forth were going.

IMO we (meaning 99% of all posters, but maybe more so those of us with familiarity w/each other over the years) sometimes forget this/these boards are somebody's blood, sweat & tears and they have a vested interest in the success of the board, regardless of whether it is for profit or not. As much as these places create a sense of camaraderie between participants they also create a subtle sense of freedom in which we all think we can use the board as we please.

There are very few things we cannot use these boards for is my guess, and where that thread was going to end up is one of those few things.


You're just mad I was going to expose your Pavlovian reaction to black NBA athletes.

;-)
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:34 am

Ea$t $ide wrote:until the little fella with the potty mouth had a spasm....


And kid, you already had a complete and utter melt down in this thread. Usually when that happens it is in a posters best interest to leave said thread and not look back. You should do the same.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby Ea$t $ide » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:38 am

e0y2e3 wrote:
Ea$t $ide wrote:until the little fella with the potty mouth had a spasm....


And kid, you already had a complete and utter melt down in this thread. Usually when that happens it is in a posters best interest to leave said thread and not look back. You should do the same.




:wha?:


dude, you need mental help...seriously...you have issues with your puniness....i think they have pills that will help make it grow bigger nowadays....


i will walk away from this nonsense now....Have a Nice Day!!!!
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:40 am

:hey:
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby Juannieboy » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:57 am

e0y2e3 wrote:And FTR Cass, if this forum becomes a cannot be colorful while posting place that is fine, I just won't be taking part. The thing that has always made TCF is it following what CS was and people being able to call people stupid when they are stupid. If you want a change in direction, fine w/ me, but the reason I came here was the old school rules that this place was founded upon..


And here lies the crux of the issue.

eye thinks its perfectly fine to call other posters offensive names, like morons and idiots. It gets old. If you can't state an opinion, (even a terse one), or disagree with him without these very personal attacks, why continue to post here?

To his credit, eye has a lot of insight and usually, when he is not off his meds I guess, makes for good reading.

But, calling people names while hiding behind a keyboard isn't "old school", fair or noble. Pull the same shit in a face to face discussion and he would likely be spitting up a few teeth and deservingly so.

Instead of calling him on it, the thread gets locked. Then, everyone is surpressed. Is that what it has to come down to?
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:18 am

Wait? Calling people "idiot" and "moron" when they post stupid things is a "very personal" insult?

Geezes a couple of you need to grow up. It's the internet and you are going on record stating stupid things or (and this is what pisses me off the most lately) you are scanning threads, not reading what has been written and dropping a reply that focuses on 1/8th of the overall point of what was written. That drives me fucking nuts. And idiots like East Side admitted previously that they are not here to read the posts, because this isn't "English Class."

This place isn't Cleveland Live, the Cooler or any of that and that is why I am here. It is old skool and goes back to a place you have no idea about juan. If you don't want called names read, think and post. I am fine w/ people disagreeing w/ me, in fact I wish it happened more, problem is most of you dumbasses that do disagree w/ me are new posters that are missing the entire point of the discussion at hand or are trying a drive-by line to look smart and that isn't going to fly.

That said, even when I call posters names I do so focusing on what they posted. Never will you see me drop a "little man" tirade like East Side did here, as he didn't even try to mask his melt w/ being on topic.

And you won't ever find me dropping thinly veiled personal threats, which is about as lame as it gets on the internet. I'm averaging having one tossed my way ever two months right now though, which is kinda awesome. Glad you think I should be spitting up teeth though... ;-)

You didn't happen to be an academic all american that runs a 7:30 mile, did you juan?

BTW: The locking of the Gil thread I understand in here, as it was becoming nothing but a race talk. That said it probably should have just been moved to NHB and let go. But if my participation in said thread caused immense repression of your quick wit and awesome banter, I sincerely apologize juan.

If you cannot take having someone call you an idiot over the internet and if that is very personal to you I recommend hitting the yellow pages and finding help. Looking up the definition of neurosis would be a good point of reference to hit up before calling the shrink.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:19 am

Meh...

It's screen names and nothing else. And there are stupid posts and stupid posters. No issue with calling attention to either here.

It needs to be done IMO or you have cleveland.com

This comes down to preference in how attention is called to idiots. Some prefer the direct approach, some go passive-aggressive and some prefer the Algonquin method.

For the record, I'm not saying East Side is an idiot. I have no idea as I haven't really followed his posts.
e0y2e3 might work for East Side. Who knows.

As for going down the race road, why is that verboten as it pertains to the NBA? Or maybe there's no issue and everything is cool?

Shit, racial issues are as much a part of the NBA as basketballs. No one gets hurt in talking about issues.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:38 am

Trust me eye I really wanted you to say what you were probably dieing to say, or at least what you were thinking. The beat around the bush method of your post was what got me more than anything, you normally are not the type to hold back on saying what it is you want to say.

The topic will come up again for sure, with today's society I will guarantee it, maybe in the right forum this time though.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby Juannieboy » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:55 pm

[
quote="e0y2e3"]Wait? Calling people "idiot" and "moron" when they post stupid things is a "very personal" insult?

Geezes a couple of you need to grow up.


Sounds a little lame. It's OK to call people idiots and morons and in the same breath tell them to "grow up"? Repeat: Name calling is for kids. I think you could be more subtle and clever than that.

This place isn't Cleveland Live, the Cooler or any of that and that is why I am here. It is old skool and goes back to a place you have no idea about juan. If you don't want called names read, think and post. I am fine w/ people disagreeing w/ me, in fact I wish it happened more, problem is most of you dumbasses that do disagree w/ me are new posters that are missing the entire point of the discussion at hand or are trying a drive-by line to look smart and that isn't going to fly.


Me thinks you read alot into what people say or how they say it. You are not always right about this. You have been known to take a few leaps in logic too you know? You singlehandedly turned the Gil thread into a racial topic. Not to nitpick. I just did'nt see race as a factor in that discussion until you brought it up.

[
You didn't happen to be an academic all american that runs a 7:30 mile, did you juan?
[/quote]

Funny. No, my claim to fame is I hit 8 homers ( over the fence) during a 20 game little league schedule....it was all downhill from there.

If you cannot take having someone call you an idiot over the internet and if that is very personal to you I recommend hitting the yellow pages and finding help. Looking up the definition of neurosis would be a good point of reference to hit up before calling the shrink.
[/quote]

Professionally, I happen to work with alot of folks that were unfortunate enough to be born with developmental disabilites. Many of them are fine people. These terms tend to rub me the wrong way. I'll try and grow thicker skin with out any counseling though. :>)
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:06 pm

Most of your post is just garble, but I do want to address the Gil thread.

I replied to FUDU calling Gil a thug like Plax (or essentially calling them the same people) then you started in at me while not even realizing that I was addressing a single point from FUDU.

Either way, where else was that thread going to go? The Gil case is a from sociology study in race, guns, society and the NBA. It's incredible. And of all people to be whining about it you?

You didn't even follow the story but then jumped on my logic w/ nothing to back it up regarding the Wiz jumping for joy about getting rid of Gil. End of the day you contributed nothing to that thread because you jumped into an argument w/out even knowing what was being argued. Shame the thread got locked before you could drop more golden turds of wisdom though.

This is a big boy forum, read think then post. Again, not fucking rocket science. You don't do that expect to get called an idiot moron or developmentally disabled. That hurts your feelings go to RCF.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby Juannieboy » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:30 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Most of your post is just garble, but I do want to address the Gil thread.

I replied to FUDU calling Gil a thug like Plax (or essentially calling them the same people) then you started in at me while not even realizing that I was addressing a single point from FUDU.

Either way, where else was that thread going to go? The Gil case is a from sociology study in race, guns, society and the NBA. It's incredible. And of all people to be whining about it you?

You didn't even follow the story but then jumped on my logic w/ nothing to back it up regarding the Wiz jumping for joy about getting rid of Gil. End of the day you contributed nothing to that thread because you jumped into an argument w/out even knowing what was being argued. Shame the thread got locked before you could drop more golden turds of wisdom though

This is a big boy forum, read think then post. Again, not fucking rocket science. You don't do that expect to get called an idiot moron or developmentally disabled. That hurts your feelings go to RCF.


Your superiority complex has no end. Who died and left you the arbitratior of what adds to a thread or not? :fu:
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby OldDawg » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:12 pm

Peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:And if you are going to start taking issue w/ calling stupid posts stupid then I formally request you start deleting one line idiocracies.


Deleting idiotic posts would reduce the Indians board to a pile of smoldering rubble.
There would be a thread title, a post or two, one of the Cancer Club would weigh in and then lock down would ensue nano-seconds after they hit the submit button.
You forgot to mix in a reference of Brandon Phillips...
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby Ea$t $ide » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:04 pm

Juannieboy wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Most of your post is just garble, but I do want to address the Gil thread.

I replied to FUDU calling Gil a thug like Plax (or essentially calling them the same people) then you started in at me while not even realizing that I was addressing a single point from FUDU.

Either way, where else was that thread going to go? The Gil case is a from sociology study in race, guns, society and the NBA. It's incredible. And of all people to be whining about it you?

You didn't even follow the story but then jumped on my logic w/ nothing to back it up regarding the Wiz jumping for joy about getting rid of Gil. End of the day you contributed nothing to that thread because you jumped into an argument w/out even knowing what was being argued. Shame the thread got locked before you could drop more golden turds of wisdom though

This is a big boy forum, read think then post. Again, not fucking rocket science. You don't do that expect to get called an idiot moron or developmentally disabled. That hurts your feelings go to RCF.


Your superiority complex has no end. Who died and left you the arbitratior of what adds to a thread or not? :fu:


Fake internet tough guy flame warriors...LOL. There is one on every message board...
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:18 pm

People really need to stop letting Eeyore bruise their feelings. He posts this way, he's always posted this way, and he will always post this way.

Either don't take it personally or find his own weak spots- and he has them.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:23 pm

HermanFontenot wrote:People really need to stop letting Eeyore bruise their feelings. He posts this way, he's always posted this way, and he will always post this way.

Either don't take it personally or find his own weak spots- and he has them.



I think it's funny as hell.

Do what you do, e0y.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby Ea$t $ide » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:45 pm

HermanFontenot wrote:People really need to stop letting Eeyore bruise their feelings. He posts this way, he's always posted this way, and he will always post this way.

Either don't take it personally or find his own weak spots- and he has them.


Oh I think I found it...present him with facts...he goes ballistic and starts crying like a little girl....then spazzes out and starts dropping f-bomb laden tirades about how stupid everyone else is....LOL...THAT was easy...
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby Orenthal » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:04 pm

Ea$t $ide wrote:
HermanFontenot wrote:People really need to stop letting Eeyore bruise their feelings. He posts this way, he's always posted this way, and he will always post this way.

Either don't take it personally or find his own weak spots- and he has them.


Oh I think I found it...present him with facts...he goes ballistic and starts crying like a little girl....then spazzes out and starts dropping f-bomb laden tirades about how stupid everyone else is....LOL...THAT was easy...


Your facts sucked. Point: Wilt dominated the stats in most matchups with Russel yet the Celtics won. So much of the game is in the flow and intangibles that cannot be measured. That is eye's point, and one that cannot be refuted through your selection of statistics. The ability of Hedo to pull our SLOW bigs out on a P&R, leaving them on an island, and forcing our switching to be nothing more then a guy trying in vain to jump in a guys general direction could not be quantified properly. Unless you include the hockey assist and some stat for getting people mauled by Howard and forcing a foul sending him to the line. Getting our bigs in foul trouble, the fact we were slow and without length. Boston not having KG... You can go on forever...

Like Herm said if you can't stand eye don't respond, fact is his takes while perhaps not always gospel usually have 1,000% more substance then those he is attacking. Also why do peep's always go 5th grade insults on eye. Just tell him to fawk off, and then ignore him, would work better...
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:48 pm

+1 from Orenthal.

Your facts were pretty useless. Points per game, by itself, is as useful a measuring stick as batting average is for baseball. There are very few metrics that completely measure what a player is worth; 99% of folks watching the playoffs last year would agree that Hedo was an enormous difference maker in that series. He was a matchup DISASTER. Against the Lakers, Ariza/Kobe forced the attack to be more balanced, and they didnt have to continually double team Howard every time he touched the ball.

I'll take it one step further....Hedo Turkeyglue, Michael Pietrus, and every other team that has two lengthy scoring guard/forwards are the reason we signed Jamario Moon and Anthony Parker. Period.

I could personally give a shit about the name calling if it means the degenerates on the other boards don't come here.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby Ea$t $ide » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:31 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:+1 from Orenthal.

Your facts were pretty useless. Points per game, by itself, is as useful a measuring stick as batting average is for baseball. There are very few metrics that completely measure what a player is worth; 99% of folks watching the playoffs last year would agree that Hedo was an enormous difference maker in that series. He was a matchup DISASTER. Against the Lakers, Ariza/Kobe forced the attack to be more balanced, and they didnt have to continually double team Howard every time he touched the ball.

I'll take it one step further....Hedo Turkeyglue, Michael Pietrus, and every other team that has two lengthy scoring guard/forwards are the reason we signed Jamario Moon and Anthony Parker. Period.

I could personally give a shit about the name calling if it means the degenerates on the other boards don't come here.



See? Now these 2 men have found a much better way to present their point of view, give me a little whatfur that I will gladly accept, and then we can have a conversation. Going F-bomb and name calling is frankly weak and shows immaturity. I highly doubt when eyes boss tells him he doesn't have enough french fries in the fryer at McDonalds that he goes off on him and calls him effin this and effin that. A little civility is all that's required. It doesn't even have to be that lite...to go nuclear on someone that you don't know? Yikes, if that's how goes it around here....
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby OldDawg » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:44 pm

Hey Spongebob.
Eieio has been on here for three years and 4000+ posts.
You have been here for three weeks and 40+ posts (half of which attack eieio)
I have a pretty good grip on the game of basketball. Just trust me on that.
I find eieio quite astute. And he seems to have his finger on the pulse of the nba.
Yes, he can be a bit abrasive. Oh, well.
To come in here and start calling out veteran, insightful, and yes sometimes arrogant posters, in your first month doesn't quite get you any quality points in my book.
Chill out, speak your mind, and move on. And after you establish your reputation, then take people on. Frankly, you do seem quite childish. Even for Spongebob.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:54 pm

East Side, you're getting it from some of the most mild mannered and reputable people on the board. And they're right. The 'tea bagging' and 'fries in the fryer' crap is not only weak but it paints you in an insecure, sophomoric and bad light.

Take OldDawg's advice and contribute something or converse before you blow up. e0 ain't insulting you. He's going at a screen name and a post.

Don't work so hard at it.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:11 am

Ea$t $ide wrote:
Gradysmanldy wrote:+1 from Orenthal.

Your facts were pretty useless. Points per game, by itself, is as useful a measuring stick as batting average is for baseball. There are very few metrics that completely measure what a player is worth; 99% of folks watching the playoffs last year would agree that Hedo was an enormous difference maker in that series. He was a matchup DISASTER. Against the Lakers, Ariza/Kobe forced the attack to be more balanced, and they didnt have to continually double team Howard every time he touched the ball.

I'll take it one step further....Hedo Turkeyglue, Michael Pietrus, and every other team that has two lengthy scoring guard/forwards are the reason we signed Jamario Moon and Anthony Parker. Period.

I could personally give a shit about the name calling if it means the degenerates on the other boards don't come here.



See? Now these 2 men have found a much better way to present their point of view, give me a little whatfur that I will gladly accept, and then we can have a conversation. Going F-bomb and name calling is frankly weak and shows immaturity. I highly doubt when eyes boss tells him he doesn't have enough french fries in the fryer at McDonalds that he goes off on him and calls him effin this and effin that. A little civility is all that's required. It doesn't even have to be that lite...to go nuclear on someone that you don't know? Yikes, if that's how goes it around here....


Not that anyone needs to speak for EO, but his main issue is this;

Bring some fucking content.

That's all. If you do that you may snipe to your heart's content.

But if you don't you're useless.

And this point is correct by the way.

And it would also help to cut down on the attempted humor. The ole' fries/McDonalds...not so fresh.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:11 am

Like Herm said, if you have a problem with eye, give him shit, there are enough opportunities to, all over this site. If your nice to me I can give you the secret knock to a special place where it is real easy to get on his shit.

FWIW though eye does spasm way too much over some of the most trivial shit online. From innocent duplicate threads to a poster on their 4th post not making a whole lot of sense.

A couple of real easy ways to get under his skin:

Peyton Manning praise
Star Wars talk
Eminem hate
Calling him an attention whore
Start a thread about intelligent design v evolution
Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby Ea$t $ide » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:59 am

Here's an interesting break down of last years C's - Magic series.....


It will be interesting to see how the Celtics' backcourt will fair against Lewis and Turkoglu who average 37.0 and 33.3 percent from long-range respectively. Both have a clear size advantage over Pierce and superior quickness against Davis and Perkins.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1677 ... on-celtics


To me, this sounds a LOT like the same problems the Cavs had with Hedo. Consider that Turk scored 25 points, 12 assists and 5 rebounds in game 7 AT Boston. I doubt Doc Rivers felt like Hedo didn't pose any match up problem for his team.

And it bears repeating, I feel like he DID pose even MORE problems for the Cavs. Nobody is disputing this. Not me, or anyone else. But to get back to the topic of the thread, the Orlando Magic messed up big time by trading this guy. They traded a player that helped them knock off both the Celtics and the Cavs and got a proven loser back in Vince Carter.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby OldDawg » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:53 am

Ea$t $ide wrote:Here's an interesting break down of last years C's - Magic series.....


It will be interesting to see how the Celtics' backcourt will fair against Lewis and Turkoglu who average 37.0 and 33.3 percent from long-range respectively. Both have a clear size advantage over Pierce and superior quickness against Davis and Perkins.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1677 ... on-celtics


To me, this sounds a LOT like the same problems the Cavs had with Hedo. Consider that Turk scored 25 points, 12 assists and 5 rebounds in game 7 AT Boston. I doubt Doc Rivers felt like Hedo didn't pose any match up problem for his team.

And it bears repeating, I feel like he DID pose even MORE problems for the Cavs. Nobody is disputing this. Not me, or anyone else. But to get back to the topic of the thread, the Orlando Magic messed up big time by trading this guy. They traded a player that helped them knock off both the Celtics and the Cavs and got a proven loser back in Vince Carter.
To this day, I am not sure if the match up problem wasn't the result of the calculated gamble of the head coach. He chose to put DWest on TurkeyGlue and have LeBron guard no one of significance (was it Lee?). If LBJ guards TurkeyGlue (sm fwd v sm fwd) TurkeyGlue is a non-factor. I specifically recall a few possessions in our series when LBJ did guard TG and TG soiled himself. I think Brown did not want to wear LBJ out on D or risk getting him in foul trouble.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:01 am

You do realize that article was written before the series and is from the single least valuable site on the entire internet, in the bleacher report.

I'll ask you for a fourth time, did you watch the series?

And again, in my posts where you claim I am freaking out I laid out about twenty questions you have ignored.

If you want to post here answer my questions or answer the questions laid out before you.

You know, like addressing the fact that Hedo's Magic team was a crap match-up against a healthy Celtics team (thanks for the bleacher reports preview about the hurt one though, it was useful)

Posting points per game and a game preview from bleacher report is not posting anything of substance.

I laid out, four times in this thread, how Hedo's Magic team had serious weaknesses.

Have you addressed any of those weaknesses yet w/ anything but a FG% or a series preview from a crap blog about a series you didn't even watch.

And has anyone ever argued that having Hedo AND being able to address the weakness of the Magic would not have been ideal? Reality prevented that, but you keep ignoring that last years Magic team had very real weaknesses that would have again prevented them from winning the title. They let Hedo go and patched all of those holes (on paper, for the fucking fourth time). Now though the team has its depth infighting about minutes and shots, Vince who has been hurt more often than not, Meer who has been hurt and Dewey who is spasming at officials more often than not.

That said, I'm just repeating myself at this point. Read the thread (again, you have said on here you don't read the threads because it isn't english class) and address the issues at hand. Stop dancing around them w/ pointless numbers and series previews or walk away.

It's like you are posting right now just begging for everyone to say "yeah, Hedo had a nice playoffs last year"

Well sure, he is a nice player. But the guy didn't fill all the Holes on the Magic. You know, like having someone who could get to the basket, someone that could score between Dewey and three points line, someone that could play D, and fuck why am I repeating myself yet again.

I'm done w/ this thread.

If you want to converse that's up to the others. Until you prove you are capable of reading what has been posted and addressing the posts at hand I'm done w/ you.

Fucking PPG and a series preview, christ.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby Ea$t $ide » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:39 am

OldDawg wrote:
Ea$t $ide wrote:Here's an interesting break down of last years C's - Magic series.....


It will be interesting to see how the Celtics' backcourt will fair against Lewis and Turkoglu who average 37.0 and 33.3 percent from long-range respectively. Both have a clear size advantage over Pierce and superior quickness against Davis and Perkins.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1677 ... on-celtics


To me, this sounds a LOT like the same problems the Cavs had with Hedo. Consider that Turk scored 25 points, 12 assists and 5 rebounds in game 7 AT Boston. I doubt Doc Rivers felt like Hedo didn't pose any match up problem for his team.

And it bears repeating, I feel like he DID pose even MORE problems for the Cavs. Nobody is disputing this. Not me, or anyone else. But to get back to the topic of the thread, the Orlando Magic messed up big time by trading this guy. They traded a player that helped them knock off both the Celtics and the Cavs and got a proven loser back in Vince Carter.
To this day, I am not sure if the match up problem wasn't the result of the calculated gamble of the head coach. He chose to put DWest on TurkeyGlue and have LeBron guard no one of significance (was it Lee?). If LBJ guards TurkeyGlue (sm fwd v sm fwd) TurkeyGlue is a non-factor. I specifically recall a few possessions in our series when LBJ did guard TG and TG soiled himself. I think Brown did not want to wear LBJ out on D or risk getting him in foul trouble.



It was Rafer alston, which was simply mind boggling. As you said, why not put LBJ on Hedo? Even with West his FG% was awful, 30%. But he slaughtered us with the pick and roll. That was a BAD series for Coach Brown.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby OldDawg » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:11 am

Ea$t $ide wrote:
OldDawg wrote:
Ea$t $ide wrote:Here's an interesting break down of last years C's - Magic series.....


It will be interesting to see how the Celtics' backcourt will fair against Lewis and Turkoglu who average 37.0 and 33.3 percent from long-range respectively. Both have a clear size advantage over Pierce and superior quickness against Davis and Perkins.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1677 ... on-celtics


To me, this sounds a LOT like the same problems the Cavs had with Hedo. Consider that Turk scored 25 points, 12 assists and 5 rebounds in game 7 AT Boston. I doubt Doc Rivers felt like Hedo didn't pose any match up problem for his team.

And it bears repeating, I feel like he DID pose even MORE problems for the Cavs. Nobody is disputing this. Not me, or anyone else. But to get back to the topic of the thread, the Orlando Magic messed up big time by trading this guy. They traded a player that helped them knock off both the Celtics and the Cavs and got a proven loser back in Vince Carter.
To this day, I am not sure if the match up problem wasn't the result of the calculated gamble of the head coach. He chose to put DWest on TurkeyGlue and have LeBron guard no one of significance (was it Lee?). If LBJ guards TurkeyGlue (sm fwd v sm fwd) TurkeyGlue is a non-factor. I specifically recall a few possessions in our series when LBJ did guard TG and TG soiled himself. I think Brown did not want to wear LBJ out on D or risk getting him in foul trouble.



It was Rafer alston, which was simply mind boggling. As you said, why not put LBJ on Hedo? Even with West his FG% was awful, 30%. But he slaughtered us with the pick and roll. That was a BAD series for Coach Brown.

I thought these were the match-ups:
Mo Williams on Rafer Alston
LBJ on Lee
DWest on TurkeyGlue
AV on Lewis
Z on Howard
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:12 am

OldDawg wrote:
Ea$t $ide wrote:
OldDawg wrote:
Ea$t $ide wrote:Here's an interesting break down of last years C's - Magic series.....


It will be interesting to see how the Celtics' backcourt will fair against Lewis and Turkoglu who average 37.0 and 33.3 percent from long-range respectively. Both have a clear size advantage over Pierce and superior quickness against Davis and Perkins.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1677 ... on-celtics


To me, this sounds a LOT like the same problems the Cavs had with Hedo. Consider that Turk scored 25 points, 12 assists and 5 rebounds in game 7 AT Boston. I doubt Doc Rivers felt like Hedo didn't pose any match up problem for his team.

And it bears repeating, I feel like he DID pose even MORE problems for the Cavs. Nobody is disputing this. Not me, or anyone else. But to get back to the topic of the thread, the Orlando Magic messed up big time by trading this guy. They traded a player that helped them knock off both the Celtics and the Cavs and got a proven loser back in Vince Carter.
To this day, I am not sure if the match up problem wasn't the result of the calculated gamble of the head coach. He chose to put DWest on TurkeyGlue and have LeBron guard no one of significance (was it Lee?). If LBJ guards TurkeyGlue (sm fwd v sm fwd) TurkeyGlue is a non-factor. I specifically recall a few possessions in our series when LBJ did guard TG and TG soiled himself. I think Brown did not want to wear LBJ out on D or risk getting him in foul trouble.



It was Rafer alston, which was simply mind boggling. As you said, why not put LBJ on Hedo? Even with West his FG% was awful, 30%. But he slaughtered us with the pick and roll. That was a BAD series for Coach Brown.

I thought these were the match-ups:
Mo Williams on Rafer Alston
LBJ on Lee
DWest on TurkeyGlue
AV on Lewis
Z on Howard


No, I think he was right. Lebron was on Alston for a majority of the time so he could "play centerfield" AKA play off Alston and let him destroy us from 3.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:23 am

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:No, I think he was right. Lebron was on Alston for a majority of the time so he could "play centerfield" AKA play off Alston and let him destroy us from 3.


That is what I saw too, at least 50% of the time, would guess even more trying to guess low. Lebron wasting away guarding Alston to let Lebron "roam" and then allowing Alston to have all day to kill us from 3 with crucial shots.

How that even makes sense I will never know.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:27 am

The idea at the time, IIRC, was that Lebron was playing the "free safety" defense that has been described a few times beforehand, so that he could A) Provide help with Rashard Lewis, who was clearly too quick/athletic for AV to guard, B) To help double Dwight Howard, who was too strong/quick for Z, and C) To stay at home for the pick and roll for TG. This failed, imho, for a few reasons.

1) Alston got hot from deep, like most guards will when left WIDE THE FUCK OPEN.

2) Howard would get fouled rather than pass out of the double team, and made a ridiculous % of his FT. (I'm too lazy to look up the numbers, but I know last year and that series saw him hit career highs in FT %)

3) When the LBJ would clog the middle on the P+R, they would dish to the corners for Pietrus or Lewis who would leak out that way and kill us with 3's.

I agree with the posters on this board that suggest that Brown got outcoached but Van Jeremy, but I feel like we just matched up incredibly poorly with a team like the magic or lakers that sported strong interior play with lengthy wing players. Every individual strategy Brown tried in the series, even in short doses, failed. He tried to throw Pavlovic out there to increase length, but he's a caveman; he tried to single team Dewey and force him to beat us single handedly. (He did, in overtime) and he tried the free safety. Bottom line, despite his deficiencies and inability to adjust to situations last year, he just didn't have the personnel necessary to D up that kind of a team.

Just my two cents.

Also, I vaguely remember a writer (think it was SI) voicing concerns that while everyone was salivating over a potential Cavs/Lakers showdown, that Cleveland didn't have the depth up front to get through Orlando. Think the quote was something to the effect of, "Varaejao is a quality player on a championship team. If that team is STARTING him against the likes of Bynum, Garnett, and Howard? You have problems"

P.S. I think Andy is a + defender, and has shown good foodwork defensively this year. (Less charges, more feet shuffling)
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby diminishingskills » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:10 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:Also, I vaguely remember a writer (think it was SI) voicing concerns that while everyone was salivating over a potential Cavs/Lakers showdown, that Cleveland didn't have the depth up front to get through Orlando. Think the quote was something to the effect of, "Varaejao is a quality player on a championship team. If that team is STARTING him against the likes of Bynum, Garnett, and Howard? You have problems"


I think there was an SI writer who said that. But in the interests of pimping one of our own, so did Jesse. He called that series in advance -- outcome, number of games, I think he even correctly guessed the number of times the veins in Van Jeremy's head would look like they were about to explode. Everybody here hated Jesse's take, but he turned out to be 100% right.

BTW, with regards to Eye: tell him that you just saw Tyreke Evans and John Wall playing pickup ball at the local Y, and Eye will exit the room so fast, he'll leave one of those Saturday-morning-comics puffs of smoke in his wake. Problem solved.

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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:17 pm

We've covered the coaching issues from that series ad nauseum at this point and OD and I have been in agreement the entire time.

We tried nothing that series, not going small, not running Pavs (gawd, that hurts to say), etc.

It was Browns worst moment and, IMO he repeats in the playoffs this year and he should be fired. Ferry agrees, I suspect and that is why he got the sit down/lashing he got last year.

That said, LBJ wasn't really on Alston. That D was designed to play the Celtics the year before (when LBJ didn't man up Pierce he was "on" Rondo). Somewhere along the lines Browns decided beating this strategy into the ground against Orlando made sense and that we should have LBJ "on" Alston (which in reality meant playing Free safety).
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:21 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:That said, LBJ wasn't really on Alston. That D was designed to play the Celtics the year before (when LBJ didn't man up Pierce he was "on" Rondo). Somewhere along the lines Browns decided beating this strategy into the ground against Orlando made sense and that we should have LBJ "on" Alston (which in reality meant playing Free safety).


Exactly. MB took the strategy designed for Boston and applied it to Orlando, with disastrous results.

That said, and with Stan Van's horsewhipping of MB duely noted, the match-up problems were what they were. We didn't have enough lengthy defenders to go around and the biggest problem was that we didn't have anyone with the muscle to keep Dewey away from his spots. The latter is the key to Boston's match-up advantage over Orlando: no one in this league does a better job of keeping Dewey away from the basket than Kendrick Perkins. Thus far in 2009-10, Dewey has a total of three field goals in two games against the C's. That's amazing work by Perk.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:27 pm

HermanFontenot wrote:problem was that we didn't have anyone with the muscle to keep Dewey away from his spots. The latter is the key to Boston's match-up advantage over Orlando: no one in this league does a better job of keeping Dewey away from the basket than Kendrick Perkins. Thus far in 2009-10, Dewey has a total of three field goals in two games against the C's. That's amazing work by Perk.


That and Andy's offensive game last year was so bad he couldn't punish Lewis on O like KG can (should he chose to or a healthy Powe).

I love Perk, my favorite center in the East and would kill to have him on the Cavs, but I honestly think if Big Ben never gets hurt last year and is at more than 60% in that series we would have had a much better shot. People forget how well Ben was playing before he went down.

Well that and Brown not getting beaten so hard by SVG that Ben seemed to end up on Rashard 50% of the time he was in the game.

Gawd the coaching was terrible.
Last edited by e0y2e3 on Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:29 pm

DiminishingSkills wrote:
Eye : Reke/Wall :: Rest Of Us : Hot Girl-on-Girl Porn


Reke and Casspi were on NBATV last night.

I shed a single tear.

Gawd bless the Jew and the stud.

And rest assured next year my fantasy point guards will be Reke, Wall and Westbrook. Excited already just thinking about it.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:29 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:That and Andy's offensive game last year was so bad he couldn't punish Lewis on O like KG can (should he chose to).


Yup, that's another thing. 'Shard can be exploited like crazy defensively by a real PF.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby OldDawg » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:39 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:We've covered the coaching issues from that series ad nauseum at this point and OD and I have been in agreement the entire time.

We tried nothing that series, not going small, not running Pavs (gawd, that hurts to say), etc.

It was Browns worst moment and, IMO he repeats in the playoffs this year and he should be fired. Ferry agrees, I suspect and that is why he got the sit down/lashing he got last year.

What's funny is that last season was all about "are we good enough to beat the Cs?" The reigning champs. And then we never played them. Now this year our entire off season was a reaction to the Magic series and prepping to beat them. And don't be surprised if we somehow don't play them this post season, either. Regardless, I like our extra "length" that we obtained this off season.

I will say this: I think the Magic looked poor in every series they played last year except vs the Cavs. Match-ups or not, they just didn't look very good in their other series. Then they played out of their bottoms against us. They had the midas touch vs the Cavs in that series. And I still say if LBJ guards TurkeyGlue, we win. Maybe LBJ doesn't have the offensive series he had, but I'm not sure that wouldn't have been a plus, too. The Cavs were/are much better in the team mode rather than the LBJ vs the world mode any time a playoff game would get tight. You wonder why some guys didn't look into the flow in that series.... Try not touching the ball for minutes upon minutes at a time.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby CharacterIV » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:16 pm

OldDawg wrote:What's funny is that last season was all about "are we good enough to beat the Cs?" The reigning champs. And then we never played them. Now this year our entire off season was a reaction to the Magic series and prepping to beat them. And don't be surprised if we somehow don't play them this post season, either. Regardless, I like our extra "length" that we obtained this off season.


A few people I've talked with recently and back when the Cavs were signing Parker and Moon kept railing the same thing: they were building to beat one team, who had embarrased them. I disagree. All of the NBA's elite teams have length you need to match. Hell, the Lakers can throw a front line of 3 guys 6'10" or taller. Coming up with athletic 7 footers like the Lakers have is an nigh-impossible goal, but athletic, defensive 6-and-a-half footers is better than we were able to put out there. And even against teams whose length is not that much of an issue, you then can possibly even have a length advantage. Obviously, the decision to sign Moon and Parker took in Turkoglu and Rashard as factors, but hardly the sole factors. A taller team is generally a better team, and so I don't regard Parker and Moon as anti-Magic signings, but rather as smart signings.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby fundamentals » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:32 pm

I am just hopefull Van Gundy never figures out that Ryan Anderson is a solid basketball player. Orlando actually may have too much "talent" on paper too, not enough minutes for guys. Guess we will see how it plays out but they look like Dead Man Walking right now.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:54 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Reke and Casspi were on NBATV last night.

I shed a single tear.

Gawd bless the Jew and the stud.

Hard to believe most people saw Casspi as needing significant D-League time before he'd be a productive player. Big knocks on him were poor shot selection and shot mechanics. Well, he's shooting 48% from the field and 42% from downtown. He struggled mightily early on from the line, but has since improved his % every single month (25% in Oct, 50% in Nov, 70% in Dec, and 80% in Jan). He also guards one of the better players on the opposing team every night, and has unlimited energy. His PT has decreased a bit with Kevin Martin's return, but there's always minutes for a guy who plays like him. Love love love his game, and kid seems primed for a long career in the NBA.

And rest assured next year my fantasy point guards will be Reke, Wall and Westbrook. Excited already just thinking about it

Seeing as your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks are locked in already, I sure hope you go big in Round 1.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:10 pm

CharacterIV wrote:
OldDawg wrote:What's funny is that last season was all about "are we good enough to beat the Cs?" The reigning champs. And then we never played them. Now this year our entire off season was a reaction to the Magic series and prepping to beat them. And don't be surprised if we somehow don't play them this post season, either. Regardless, I like our extra "length" that we obtained this off season.


A few people I've talked with recently and back when the Cavs were signing Parker and Moon kept railing the same thing: they were building to beat one team, who had embarrased them. I disagree. All of the NBA's elite teams have length you need to match. Hell, the Lakers can throw a front line of 3 guys 6'10" or taller. Coming up with athletic 7 footers like the Lakers have is an nigh-impossible goal, but athletic, defensive 6-and-a-half footers is better than we were able to put out there. And even against teams whose length is not that much of an issue, you then can possibly even have a length advantage. Obviously, the decision to sign Moon and Parker took in Turkoglu and Rashard as factors, but hardly the sole factors. A taller team is generally a better team, and so I don't regard Parker and Moon as anti-Magic signings, but rather as smart signings.


Amen AGREE! This Cavaliers team matches up with all teams better this year, and super mucho better against the elite teams. Thank gawd for an inside post player in playoff slow down mode...

Damn I wish I had NBATV, freaking WoW cable...
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby aoxo1 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:44 am

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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:09 am

aoxo1 wrote:Speaking of race and basketball: http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/20 ... 3760.shtml



Finally- An entire league of slow, unathletic guys who will shoot 84% from the line. Almost like a Pacers game.
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Re: Orlando Magic

Unread postby papacass » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:20 am

Peeker643 wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:Speaking of race and basketball: http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/20 ... 3760.shtml



Finally- An entire league of slow, unathletic guys who will shoot 84% from the line. Almost like a Pacers game.


Hey, that's Future Cav Troy Murphy you're talking about there! ;-) ;) :wink:
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