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Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby tired » Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:44 pm

I dunno didn't see a thread. Cavs lOOking good !!!
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby CharacterIV » Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:17 pm

Defense put the screws in, glad to see the work down low from Shaq, Z and Andy. Better job taking advantage of size tonight than last time. Bench bunch should close it out.
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby papacass » Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:18 pm

This is the Cavs of last year. Other team keeps it close for a while, then the Cavs go ballistic for about a six-minute stretch and the game is essentially over.

Very good game for Shaq: 21 minutes, 13 points, 11 boards (6 offensive) and even 4 assists. Plus-minus of +9. And 3/4 at the stripe, too.
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:24 pm

Fun fact: tonight's 25-point win was Cleveland's biggest margin of victory over Houston since Jan. 6, 1998, when the Cavaliers thumped the Rox 100-70.

This is also the best I've ever seen LeBron look against Shane Battier. He scored 39 against him a couple of years ago, but a lot of that consisted of circus shots over Battier, who was in his shirt all night. Tonight LeBron simply had his way, first in the post, then outside. Just one turnover from LBJ too.

Just a great team performance coming off the road trip.
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby davemanddd » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:59 am

now this truly had all the potential of being a true "trap" game and yet the cavs simply took the keys away from the rockets, along with their shorts and their shoes and made them put their dirty underwear back on and like it.
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby Cease » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:57 am

The strength of this win is an equal and opposite proportion to the number of posts in this game thread. Must be the holidays... but, if they would have lost, this place would be packed with let-down cryers and inconsistant play bangers.

I give Roker credit in getting his ballers on the court for 10-15 minutes each in the first half, letting them get a sweat going. It's a tryout for minutes in the second half, really. This team has a lot of guys who can contribute and finding consistant minutes for all isn't easy. His challenge will continue to be pulling the right personell strings down the stretch in tight games.

PS- I'm still buzzed from that Laker game.
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby aoxo1 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:27 pm

Cavs are playing as well as I've ever seen them in these last two games. The defense and effort level have been otherwordly, and LeBron is playing the best offensive ball of his career.

On defense, the added length of Parker and Moon are a big plus. Shaq is more spry than he has been and they are learning how to play with him. Z is getting floor burns. Even Mo has been giving a ton of effort on that end. It looks like everyone out there is starting to pick up a little Andy/Delonte vibe on d, being active, physical, and getting their hands on lots of balls.

On offense, LeBron is doing his best work. He hasn't been nearly as much of a ball stopper. They are getting Shaq easy points; it's absolutely hopeless for a D when he gets a chance to dunk (don't laugh, because everyone else on the team gets contested and even LeBron can be stopped with a shove; teams don't even both to move when Shaq has a clear chance at a dunk). Mo has been brilliant, Delonte is giving them even more than he did last year (minus the 3 pt shooting, which would be great if it comes around), Moon and Parker are competent... but the guy who has impressed me the most is Andy. He has steadily gotten a little better every year scoring the ball, and this year it is really showing around the basket. His body control has improved and he has become extremely resourceful ducking under and laying it in, or wrapping around behind the basket.

The biggest change from last year is that the bench is absolutely unbelievable. With Delonte back, they have two guys who should be in the top 5 for 6th man of the year awards (even though Andy doesn't quite get the respect he deserves and I have yet to see Delonte mentioned). Plus they are both 2nd or 3rd team all defense quality players and inject a huge amount of energy into the game. Their bench is absolutely overwhelming other teams both with energy and skill; the energy is leaking into everyone else's games. Delonte is perfect off the bench; I loved his combo with Mo last year, as they filled in the gaps in each other's games... but this year we are really seeing Delonte's full range of skills on the offensive end. And they haven't even been using Gibson, who has been lights out on offense and a hugely pleasant surprise on defense. Wonder what happened to get him glued to the pine recently?
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby Ziner » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:56 pm

aoxo1 wrote: And they haven't even been using Gibson, who has been lights out on offense and a hugely pleasant surprise on defense. Wonder what happened to get him glued to the pine recently?



Read this this morning. Windy breaks it down

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf ... danie.html
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby papacass » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:06 pm

Ziner wrote:
aoxo1 wrote: And they haven't even been using Gibson, who has been lights out on offense and a hugely pleasant surprise on defense. Wonder what happened to get him glued to the pine recently?



Read this this morning. Windy breaks it down

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf ... danie.html


Too many guards, not enough minutes. Which is why if Ferry is thinking about upgrading at SG, he needs to move one or two of the guys already on the roster. That's probably not going to happen.

As long as Redz doesn't have a major lapse in his mental/emotional state, I don't think Ferry is going to add another guard to the roster. For the purposes of a deadline deal, it's PF or bust IMO.
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby diminishingskills » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:07 pm

aoxo1 wrote:The biggest change from last year is that the bench is absolutely unbelievable. With Delonte back, they have two guys who should be in the top 5 for 6th man of the year awards (even though Andy doesn't quite get the respect he deserves and I have yet to see Delonte mentioned). Plus they are both 2nd or 3rd team all defense quality players and inject a huge amount of energy into the game. Their bench is absolutely overwhelming other teams both with energy and skill; the energy is leaking into everyone else's games. Delonte is perfect off the bench; I loved his combo with Mo last year, as they filled in the gaps in each other's games... but this year we are really seeing Delonte's full range of skills on the offensive end. And they haven't even been using Gibson, who has been lights out on offense and a hugely pleasant surprise on defense. Wonder what happened to get him glued to the pine recently?


This.

Last night, when Hickson got his 6th foul and Roker put Varejao back in, my initial response was "this game's over; why are you taking a chance with a valuable player in garbage time?". Then I realized -- Roker WAS playing from the end of the bench. The garbage time lineup was Andy, Whole Lotta Jawad, D-Block, Redz, and Gibson. Like you said, that's two legitimate Sixth Man contenders (not winners, but contenders) on the floor at the end of a blowout.

BTW, Windy had a piece that answers your Gibson question -- he's just been the odd man out with five other perimeter players vying for time at the 1-2-3 positions. As encouraged as I have been by Gibson's game this year (and I think the biggest reason is that he is finally healthy -- that toe bothered him all last season, more so than he or the team would ever let on), I can't say that I would take minutes from Bron, Gotti, Redz, AP, or Moon in order to get Gibson more run.
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby Frank Duffy » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:18 pm

My $.03.

1. Delonte has been terrific when he's been right this year. He's consistently making his midrange shots, and he's posting up and punishing smaller guards. He also is much more careful with the ball than Mo. When LB sits, the 2d string is now usually extending leads, not losing them. A big part of that is that Mo handles the ball less which makes for fewer turnovers.

2. Against LA, Bynum was intimidated by Shaq. Even when he did a hack a Shaq, he immediately tried to make eye contact to apologize to Shaq. Z played good D against Gasol, and G. became hesitant and passed off or shot without confidence. Kobe did fewer of his 4 or 5 move drives. Was it because he was getting punished by Shaq, or because Parker was staying with him (which he was) or maybe just wasn't at a high energy level. Will these things continue, or was it a one night thing? For one night, it certainly went according to Ferry's plan.

3. LB trusted the team like seldom before, giving up the ball and letting others pass it around. They increased the lead to 20 twice with solid play, not just because someone got hot from 3, like they have needed in the past.

In all, they've never looked better. Is it real? I said a couple weeks ago we'd learn a lot from the last two weeks. I'm not sure we have. They've certainly turned it on a few times. And it's certainly been lovely to watch. Let me repeat that - skepticsim doesn't mean I don't love to watch them play well. The two games against an Atlanta team everyone is suddenly touting will continue to tell the tale.

BTW, when I've seen TMurphy, he's been an ok rebounder, nothing special, with a reliable set shot to about 18 feet. He's game but not strong, and I don't think he can be a factor against strong, motivated bigs. Just a piece, not a game changer for the Cavs. Ferry tends to go for the grand slam. I suspect we'll start to hear about some very complex (and probably unsuccessful) trade scenarios.
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby papacass » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:42 pm

Frank Duffy wrote:BTW, when I've seen TMurphy, he's been an ok rebounder, nothing special, with a reliable set shot to about 18 feet. He's game but not strong, and I don't think he can be a factor against strong, motivated bigs. Just a piece, not a game changer for the Cavs. Ferry tends to go for the grand slam. I suspect we'll start to hear about some very complex (and probably unsuccessful) trade scenarios.


That's what everybody wants: the grand slam deal. Chris Bosh or Antawn Jamison in a Cavs uniform. What I'm saying is, that kind of deal is highly unlikely because of the caliber of players involved. Not saying it definitely couldn't happen, but I'm not holding my breath.

Murphy is a role player. He's a piece. That's exactly what he is. But the fact is, Ferry has been in the market for a stretch four since he got Shaq. And in lieu of that mind-blowing dream deal scenario, Murphy is a good, sensible pickup.

Murphy is a slow defender, but MB can probably make him a useful help defender in a five-man setup. He's nearly a seven-footer, and we saw what height can do to a team like the Lakers, who aren't used to being challenged size-wise in the frontcourt. I'd like to have a steady diet of players 6'-10" and taller to throw at the likes of the Lakers, C's and Magic.

To top it off, he's nearly a 40 percent three point shooter for his career (39.7%). To have a PF who can draw other teams' big men out of the paint to challenge shots, that's kind of the holy grail when you have Shaq and LBJ on your team. The key is, you want a guy who other teams actually step out and challenge. Z is essentially a stretch big, but he's so tall, his 18 to 20-footers are seldom contested. Teams just kind of step in for the rebound and hope he misses. Murphy is more of a true stretch four, in that he will actually draw his man out to the perimeter and create more space for the posters, slashers and drivers to operate inside.
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby dmiles » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:37 pm

+1 Papa Cass.

I can't help but wonder though what is the role of Powe? Obviously you can't assume he's going to have it and be back 100%, but if he is, the interior of the club is so physically intimidating. Where do you spread the minutes? Murphy brings the sort of Anti-Andy in that Andy does not really stretch the D, though he does require constant attention for all the nice backdoor cuts, and body control he's showing around the hoop.

Now frankly I don't care, Murphy just takes Z's minutes for instance for at least 30 days, and Powe takes JJ's minutes. These are good problems to have but I am salivating at seeing what Powe might have in the tank....
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby tired » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:38 pm

Thanks for posting guy's !!! Love all your insight's !!! I alway's got to come in here during or after a cav's game just to see what everyone say's in a gameday thread. Priceless !!! Love your stuff too pappa Class !!! :group:
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby Hi Oktane » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:42 pm

dmiles wrote:Murphy brings the sort of Anti-Andy in that Andy does not really stretch the D, though he does require constant attention for all the nice backdoor cuts, and body control he's showing around the hoop.


Slightly, OT: Is it amazing to anyone else how often Andy gets defenders to bite on the shot-fake? I mean, really?
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby papacass » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:19 pm

dmiles wrote:I can't help but wonder though what is the role of Powe? Obviously you can't assume he's going to have it and be back 100%, but if he is, the interior of the club is so physically intimidating. Where do you spread the minutes? Murphy brings the sort of Anti-Andy in that Andy does not really stretch the D, though he does require constant attention for all the nice backdoor cuts, and body control he's showing around the hoop.

Now frankly I don't care, Murphy just takes Z's minutes for instance for at least 30 days, and Powe takes JJ's minutes. These are good problems to have but I am salivating at seeing what Powe might have in the tank....


I think Powe takes Hickson's minutes. Hix is getting some time to learn right now, but his game has been extremely sporadic, and I really think you'll see a lot less Hix as the season gets later -- if Hix is still even on the roster. I think there is a good chance he's included in any significant deal. Hix really needs to be on a rebuilding team right now, so that he can learn and grow with other young players. Right now, it just seems like Hix is a fish out of water. He's struggling with his sophomore coursework while the rest of the team is enrolled in the Ph.D. program.

FTR, I don't think Z will be dealt unless a major deal comes down the pipe. He's finally playing with confidence, finally adjusted to his bench role and his shot is falling. Take him out of action for 30 days, and who knows what kind of rust develops.

If it comes to dealing for someone like Troy Murphy, I think Ferry will try to utilize Wally's trade rights to make the numbers work, provided Wally is able to suit up and play. The Pacers and Murphy have a tenuous relationship, he's owed almost $12 million in the final year of his deal next season, and the Pacers would probably take an expiring contract just to get him off their books.
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby CharacterIV » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:42 pm

Papa Cass wrote:...The Pacers and Murphy have a tenuous relationship, he's owed almost $12 million in the final year of his deal next season, and the Pacers would probably take an expiring contract just to get him off their books.


I know taking on Murphy's money extends beyond this year's great FA class, but with the shrinking cap making LeBron + Wade/Bosh/Stoudemire all but an impossibility, having Murphy's 12 Mil as an EC next season couldn't hurt. Having that manageable expiring contract every year as trade bait seems like a pretty good way to make in-season adjustments.
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Re: Cavs-Rockets

Unread postby noles1 » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:04 am

Agree on the tradefront with many thoughts out there. Who knows though, these teams don't or won't start analyzing the books until end of January. Then things could get interesting. What Ferry will not do is a deal that will submarine what he has currently put together, IMO. I am not sure I agree with it but that's what I have gathered from Windy and countless other writers. I don't think Washington deals Jamison unless it is to the Clippers or something crazy. Murphy is out their to be had but I am inclined to want someone who can defend a pick-and-roll, not more Shaq and Z types with their feet.

Powe takes JJ's minutes. Although, JJ could be our key trade piece and for the right deal, he needs to be moved.

What I have been impressed with these last 4 games is Mike Brown and his ability to play the best possible lineup based on the opponent and situation. That to me has been SIGNIFICANT progress, rather than constantly throwing Z and/or Shaq out there he has been more willing to actually base it on who he is playing and be flexible.

To me, that has been the single biggest progression I have seen since the Dallas game and my trashing of some of the players, roster makeup and coaching decisions.

I need to see significantly more and I think many times this year Lebron and Mo have really masked our issues offensively. Defensively, I still feel like the right teams will and know how to exploit us. (especially down the stretch of games)
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