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Early Trade Rumors

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Re: Early Trade Rumors

Unread postby aoxo1 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:03 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:I didn't say if I could trade places with Ferry that I would DO it, just said that it makes me concerned. Seems it's a problem with THIS team, regardless of how other teams (Orlando this year) seem to roll with the punches.

And Gasol wasn't enough immediately to put LA over the top; took an offseason to get him clicking on all cylinders. (Or the return of a healthy Bynum. Either way) It also took an otherworldly performance by Paul Pierce to knock us out.

I feel that SJax is/was a sure thing in Mike Brown's defense first system. Length, Athleticism, Defensive Intensity, and ability to hit an open jumper.

And Delonte is the case-in-point for chemistry on this team; when he is on his game, the Cavs usually look like world beaters. When he's not, they struggle.

I'm still horny for a good frontcourt option that can play defense, in the post, and run in transition....*coughjamisoncough* regardless of the consequences.

EDIT: Though, in retrospect, Jamison only does two of those. Fuck me.

Gasol was enough to move LA from Western Conference pretender that was bad enough to cause Kobe to grumble about getting out to the favorite going into the finals.

And I wouldn't classify Delonte's contributions to this team as deriving from some unquantifiable chemistry. I would classify it as deriving from him providing a broad range of skills at an above average level that allows him to fill whatever gap in play is presenting itself. That would be defense, hustle, smart play on offense, ability to take guys off the dribble and score, and (although not so far this year) a dead eye from 3.
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Re: Early Trade Rumors

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:14 pm

CharacterIV wrote:And I wouldn't classify Delonte's contributions to this team as deriving from some unquantifiable chemistry. I would classify it as deriving from him providing a broad range of skills at an above average level that allows him to fill whatever gap in play is presenting itself. That would be defense, hustle, smart play on offense, ability to take guys off the dribble and score, and (although not so far this year) a dead eye from 3.


Minus the "ability to take guys off the dribble and score" you essentially just described Anthony Parker. And he can hit the 3.

Delonte knows how to work within the confines of the system that Cleveland runs. Can DRIVE the offense/fast break and provide help in the defensive rotations in spots where he can be more effective. Knows where specific guys are going to be in specific situations. (Something that comes with time and experience) Do I feel like he has some unquantifiable skill set that can't be replaced? Of course not. Is it as simple as taking another guy who can hoop off another team and throwing him in and expecting him to provide what Delonte is capable of? Absolutely.
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Re: Early Trade Rumors

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:16 pm

Comparing Anthony Parkers skill set to Delonte's is a reach reach reach.

In theory they have similar games (although that whole being able to take people off the dribble thing is HUGE), but Delonte is more athletic, quicker, can play PG, can take people off the dribble and plays better D (at this stage in parker's career).

So I'm not really sure how this argument can be used to make any point.
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Re: Early Trade Rumors

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:39 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Comparing Anthony Parkers skill set to Delonte's is a reach reach reach.

In theory they have similar games (although that whole being able to take people off the dribble thing is HUGE), but Delonte is more athletic, quicker, can play PG, can take people off the dribble and plays better D (at this stage in parker's career).

So I'm not really sure how this argument can be used to make any point.


That is my point. To say that Delonte's game is meh, and that he's just an above average player with dribble/defense/3 point shooting skills is understating the value I think he provides the team. I think Anthony Parker is an above average player; Dwest is special and not easily replaceable. IMHO.

FWIW, thought AP played a hell of a nice game in Phoenix, although the boxscore may not reflect that.
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Re: Early Trade Rumors

Unread postby diminishingskills » Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:50 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Comparing Anthony Parkers skill set to Delonte's is a reach reach reach.

In theory they have similar games (although that whole being able to take people off the dribble thing is HUGE), but Delonte is more athletic, quicker, can play PG, can take people off the dribble and plays better D (at this stage in parker's career).

So I'm not really sure how this argument can be used to make any point.


Reminds me of the old SNL Jack Handey quote: "Boxing is just like ballet, except the dancers weigh 200 pounds, wear gloves, and hit each other."

IOW, I agree w/ Eye that the right side of bipolar Redz >>> AP. He looks like he is finally getting back to his 2008-09 form (sans the deadeye three-point shooting, and that is as much about opportunity as it is about performance), and that doesn't suck.
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Re: Early Trade Rumors

Unread postby aoxo1 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:12 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:Minus the "ability to take guys off the dribble and score" you essentially just described Anthony Parker. And he can hit the 3.

Delonte knows how to work within the confines of the system that Cleveland runs. Can DRIVE the offense/fast break and provide help in the defensive rotations in spots where he can be more effective. Knows where specific guys are going to be in specific situations. (Something that comes with time and experience) Do I feel like he has some unquantifiable skill set that can't be replaced? Of course not. Is it as simple as taking another guy who can hoop off another team and throwing him in and expecting him to provide what Delonte is capable of? Absolutely.

FFS. I also just described a large portion of LeBron's game. Does that mean anyone thinks these three guys are equivalent players?

Gradysmanldy wrote:To say that Delonte's game is meh

aoxo1 wrote: I would classify it as deriving from him providing a broad range of skills at an above average level that allows him to fill whatever gap in play is presenting itself.

Yeah, sure looks like I called his game meh.
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Re: Early Trade Rumors

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:25 am

Anthony Randolph tonight (he got 36 min):

2 AST, 8 BK, 35.7 FGP, 100.0 FTP, 12 PTS, 2 ST, 8 TRB

The day JJ Fucking Hickson gets 8 blocks is the day I turn into Geezes.
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Re: Early Trade Rumors

Unread postby reppination7 » Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:42 am

so, after watching the game against the kings, who is all for trading Z and trusting the center job with shaq alone with the occasional AV? anyone? anyone at all?
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Re: Early Trade Rumors

Unread postby papacass » Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:40 am

reppination7 wrote:so, after watching the game against the kings, who is all for trading Z and trusting the center job with shaq alone with the occasional AV? anyone? anyone at all?


Andy is the backup center, or should be. He can flash out and bother players on the wings, but other than that, his game is a center's game. Plus, unlike Shaq, Andy is actually a pretty good P&R defender.

The problem is, Andy needs to play a lot of PF. Other than the minutes Andy gives them, and some Bron time with smaller lineups, the Cavs pretty much blow chunks at PF. It is by far their weakest position. J.J.'s basketball IQ can be thoroughly questioned at this point. He's young, but lessons just don't seem to stick with him. And his fire in the belly seems to be more like a pilot light. He'll show a bit, then completely regress, like he's just not all that interested in focusing and playing hard.

Roker looks like he wants to take J.J. behind the scorer's table and strangle him sometimes. You just can't have your starting PF doing remedial coursework while the rest of the team is trying to win a championship. Some people think the Shaq experiment needs to end. I think the J.J. Hickson at starting PF experiment needs to end ASAP.

Powe might give them a lift at PF when he comes back, but I highly doubt he'll be ready for starter's minutes anytime this season -- or ever, because his left knee is held together with bailing wire. Even if his knees are fine, you don't really know what he's going to be able to give you after a 9-10 month layoff. So as I've written before, it's wise to remain conservative with what you expect from Powe when he comes back.

That leaves a trade. I'm convinced the starting PF for the playoffs isn't on this roster yet. Whether it's David West, Troy Murphy, or (best-case scenario) Antawn Jamison, Ferry is going to have to make a move. Andy should be logging most of his minutes at C, but that can't happen so long as Hix is the second-best PF on the roster.
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Re: Early Trade Rumors

Unread postby rk » Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:57 am

reppination7 wrote:so, after watching the game against the kings, who is all for trading Z and trusting the center job with shaq alone with the occasional AV? anyone? anyone at all?


Who cares if the Cavs trade Z? Any team that trades for him would be doing so just for his contract and will be more than happy to buy his contract out and let him come back to Cleveland. It will probably be part of any deal (buyouts can be part of a deal - just not any commitment by the player to return to his original team).

Z would be back in the uniform well before the playoffs and would also be well rested.
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Re: Early Trade Rumors

Unread postby fundamentals » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:22 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Anthony Randolph tonight (he got 36 min):

2 AST, 8 BK, 35.7 FGP, 100.0 FTP, 12 PTS, 2 ST, 8 TRB

The day JJ Fucking Hickson gets 8 blocks is the day I turn into Geezes.


Again, if the Cavaliers could acquire Randolph straight up for Hickson, Ferry should be wearing a ski mask for the theivery. If Z being traded brings the Cavaliers better players, so be it.
"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

"We had a great time together."
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Re: Early Trade Rumors

Unread postby JJN » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:04 am

If anyone wants to look at how screwy the Dubs are, AR put hung 18/9 (shooting 7-15) in 24 minutes on the Celtics. How is this kid not being played 30+ a game, regardless of his +/-, which I don't think can be a good indicator on a team as up and down as the Warriors.

On a side note, Monta just played wire to wire for the 7th time this season, and is averaging 41 min a game, which Marc Stein will soon tell us is more games than at least 20 MLB teams got out of their starters last year. If he ever develops a consistent 3 ball, he could be the best scoring guard in the league.
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Re: Early Trade Rumors

Unread postby Frank Duffy » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:23 am

Yeah, he shows real flashes. OTOH, Nellie benched him for the last few minutes tonight after he dribbled into the key, turned and threw a pass into the third row. Maybe not yet playoff ready.
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Re: Early Trade Rumors

Unread postby stretch51 » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:50 pm

There still might be a Wally contract to unload as well, a la Keith Van Horn.
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Re: Early Trade Rumors

Unread postby fundamentals » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:07 am

Frank Duffy wrote:Yeah, he shows real flashes. OTOH, Nellie benched him for the last few minutes tonight after he dribbled into the key, turned and threw a pass into the third row. Maybe not yet playoff ready.


I know I sound like a broken record, a broken record, a broken record, but if Hickson can get peddled for Randolph, you do it right now, no hesitation. It would be a robbery.
"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

"We had a great time together."
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