Cleveland Cavaliers & The NBA

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:00 pm

Expect there to be plenty of these murmurs around the league so I'll just dump em here.

As per Stein, Bell is having his surgery and will find out if he is out for a month or the entire season this week. If he is not out the entire season he will be in heavy demand.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... son-ending

Stein, of course, mentions us a possible landing spot for Raja, who I would not mind one bit.

Although he is somewhat redundant w/ Parker for us.

STEIN_LINE_HQ: Spurs high on list of Raja fans and have to believe Cavs (after all their Stephen Jackson talks with GSW) will pursue it. Or have already

by **papacass** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:58 pm

Raja is extremely redundant. To the point that I really don't see how he and Parker would both get minutes, especially if Delonte is active and playing well.

If I'm Ferry, I move on two types of players:

1. A starting-caliber PF, preferably with some range on his jumper.

2. A SG who makes opposing coaches think, "Holy crap on a stick, we have to stop LeBron AND this guy?"

I'm not interested in shoring up the middle and lower ranks of the roster. I'm only interested in adding a missing-piece kind of player.

by **British_Pharaoh** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:00 pm

Papa Cass wrote:Raja is extremely redundant. To the point that I really don't see how he and Parker would both get minutes, especially if Delonte is active and playing well.

If I'm Ferry, I move on two types of players:

1. A starting-caliber PF, preferably with some range on his jumper.

2. A SG who makes opposing coaches think, "Holy crap on a stick, we have to stop LeBron AND this guy?"

I'm not interested in shoring up the middle and lower ranks of the roster. I'm only interested in adding a missing-piece kind of player.

Z alone should get us one of those players of which you speak.

by **Ziner** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:04 pm

British_Pharaoh wrote:
Papa Cass wrote:Raja is extremely redundant. To the point that I really don't see how he and Parker would both get minutes, especially if Delonte is active and playing well.

If I'm Ferry, I move on two types of players:

1. A starting-caliber PF, preferably with some range on his jumper.

2. A SG who makes opposing coaches think, "Holy crap on a stick, we have to stop LeBron AND this guy?"

I'm not interested in shoring up the middle and lower ranks of the roster. I'm only interested in adding a missing-piece kind of player.

Z alone should get us one of those players of which you speak.

But does Ferry have it in him to pull the trigger

by **daddywags** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:25 pm

Papa Cass wrote:Raja is extremely redundant. To the point that I really don't see how he and Parker would both get minutes, especially if Delonte is active and playing well.

If I'm Ferry, I move on two types of players:

1. A starting-caliber PF, preferably with some range on his jumper.

2. A SG who makes opposing coaches think, "Holy crap on a stick, we have to stop LeBron AND this guy?"

I'm not interested in shoring up the middle and lower ranks of the roster. I'm only interested in adding a missing-piece kind of player.

What he said.

by **Gradysmanldy** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:20 pm

I'm only interested in the pro-SG; the PF would have to be a HUGE talent (re: Bosh, Stoudamire) to take minutes from JJ's development and Moon/AV. (the latter of which are playing at a very high level right now)

The shooting guards we have right now (Parker, Delonte) work perfectly in the system in place. If Delonte isnt going to be here the whole year, different story.

The problem, as I see it, is that there's limited shots to go around; JJ/Moon/AV really only score on feeds from Lebron/Shaq/Mo. The bulk of the set plays seem to go to Bron/SG/Mo/Boobie/Shaq, and the rest are secondary options and junk.

Unless someone who is taking a lot of shots gets flipped (Z) I dont see another person who demands the ball coming into the offense.

Also: im not really interested in screwing the team chemistry, which has already had trouble settling, by changing major peices.

by **CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:46 pm

Per an ESPN text, Raja Bell will miss at least 3 months following the surgery.

by **mack07** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:42 pm

i'd really like to have a physical pg as much or not more than a dynamic sg....would allow lebron not to have to constantly create

by **davemanddd** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:57 pm

um, guys . . . leon powe??? hello??? we don't need to trade anyone. he will in essence be the cavs' trade deadline acquisition this year and it won't cost them a damn thing in return. well, that is except for what amounts to the pro-rated amount of money on a veteran minimum salary. big whoop.

might i remind you, this team made it to the finals just 2 years ago while starting larry "ihs" hughes, drew badden and sasha pavlowhatthefuckic and then just missed the finals last year with ben wallace, wally contract & sasha still playing prominent roles only to replace them this season with shaq, jamario moon and anthony parker to go along with powe???

so they started out this year going 0-2 getting used to the new guys??? so what??? this team wasn't put together just to win games in november & december. it was put together to win a title in june. 'nuff said.

by **Madre Hill, Superstar** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:09 pm

1. Rudy Gay
2. Rudy Gay
3. Rudy Gay
4. Eric Berry

by **Larvell Blanks** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:19 pm

davemanddd wrote:um, guys . . . leon powe??? hello??? we don't need to trade anyone. he will in essence be the cavs' trade deadline acquisition this year and it won't cost them a damn thing in return. well, that is except for what amounts to the pro-rated amount of money on a veteran minimum salary. big whoop.

might i remind you, this team made it to the finals just 2 years ago while starting larry "ihs" hughes, drew badden and sasha pavlowhatthefuckic and then just missed the finals last year with ben wallace, wally contract & sasha still playing prominent roles only to replace them this season with shaq, jamario moon and anthony parker to go along with powe???

so they started out this year going 0-2 getting used to the new guys??? so what??? this team wasn't put together just to win games in november & december. it was put together to win a title in june. 'nuff said.

Leon Powe will not play starters minutes at any point this season or maybe at any point in his career, he'll be a 20 min MAX. Powe is there for interior defense and offensive rebounds and put backs. What people are asking for is a PF that can spread the offense by hitting the 15-18 ft jumper consistently. You're not going to get that w/ Powe.

by **papacass** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:00 am

mack07 wrote:i'd really like to have a physical pg as much or not more than a dynamic sg....would allow lebron not to have to constantly create

LeBron constantly creates because LeBron wants to do exactly that. The prevailing assumption seems to be that LBJ runs the offense because the Cavs lack a true PG who can do it. But LeBron runs the offense because he wants the ball and he can do it. If the Cavs had Steve Nash or Chris Paul, that wouldn't change. Those guys would be playing off the ball a lot more, as counterintuitive as that sounds.

LBJ is always at his most comfortable when he can have the ball and watch the game develop in front of him. That has definite bad side effects (i.e. stalling the offense). But that doesn't mean a true PG is going to move LeBron off the ball and turn him into purely a slasher/driver wing forward. He's probably going to handle the ball and initiate the offense at least 50 percent of the time, if not closer to 70-75 percent, depending on the game.

Personally, I think that with Mo and Delonte, the Cavs have enough short combo guards with PG skills in their games that another PG (even a "pure" PG) would be overkill. If they're going to add another guard to the mix, I'd think it should be a SG who is an upgrade over Parker.

by **e0y2e3** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:40 am

Papa Cass wrote:
mack07 wrote:i'd really like to have a physical pg as much or not more than a dynamic sg....would allow lebron not to have to constantly create

LeBron constantly creates because LeBron wants to do exactly that. The prevailing assumption seems to be that LBJ runs the offense because the Cavs lack a true PG who can do it. But LeBron runs the offense because he wants the ball and he can do it. If the Cavs had Steve Nash or Chris Paul, that wouldn't change. Those guys would be playing off the ball a lot more, as counterintuitive as that sounds.

LBJ is always at his most comfortable when he can have the ball and watch the game develop in front of him. That has definite bad side effects (i.e. stalling the offense). But that doesn't mean a true PG is going to move LeBron off the ball and turn him into purely a slasher/driver wing forward. He's probably going to handle the ball and initiate the offense at least 50 percent of the time, if not closer to 70-75 percent, depending on the game.

Personally, I think that with Mo and Delonte, the Cavs have enough short combo guards with PG skills in their games that another PG (even a "pure" PG) would be overkill. If they're going to add another guard to the mix, I'd think it should be a SG who is an upgrade over Parker.

This is where I agree and disagree. See my Z needs to be dealt post, there will come a time that LBJ has to grow up and accept his abilities. That said, I tried to post that I agreed w/ you on Raja and thought that the only reason to deal for him would be to set up another move involving a backcourt player six times today, but apparently I cannot post from work anymore.

by **Schruted it** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:14 pm

I think this team needs to get a 4 who can stretch the defense more than anything. I would be open to trading for David West, or Boris Diaw.

by **scott** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:16 pm

Papa Cass wrote:
Personally, I think that with Mo and Delonte, the Cavs have enough short combo guards with PG skills in their games that another PG (even a "pure" PG) would be overkill. If they're going to add another guard to the mix, I'd think it should be a SG who is an upgrade over Parker.

I agree 100%. Mo's skills fit this team as well as, if not better than, a traditional PG. I wouldn't mind if he played Gary Payton like defense, but you can't have everything. I don't know why people around here are still pining for one.

by **Gradysmanldy** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:27 pm

Schruted it wrote:I think this team needs to get a 4 who can stretch the defense more than anything. I would be open to trading for David West, or Boris Diaw.

What the hell is Jamario Moon? Sure, his quicks let him play around the rim for put backs and oops, but he's been banging threes at a very acceptable rate. He is the "stretch 4" the team was looking for.

by **Cease** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:10 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
Papa Cass wrote:
mack07 wrote:i'd really like to have a physical pg as much or not more than a dynamic sg....would allow lebron not to have to constantly create

LeBron constantly creates because LeBron wants to do exactly that. The prevailing assumption seems to be that LBJ runs the offense because the Cavs lack a true PG who can do it. But LeBron runs the offense because he wants the ball and he can do it. If the Cavs had Steve Nash or Chris Paul, that wouldn't change. Those guys would be playing off the ball a lot more, as counterintuitive as that sounds.

See my Z needs to be dealt post, there will come a time that LBJ has to grow up and accept his abilities.

+1 Cass, I think you nutted this one like Roy McAvoy. The flow of the offense greatly increases when LeBron loosens his grip on possessions. He has to lead this team in balancing when to ride hiim and when not to. The guy is a hoops god, so guys will tend to defer, but with confident ballers like Shaq, Delonte, Mo and AP around him- you've got guys who understand how to share the scoring load. LeBron has been a trusting teammate, but with this supporting cast, he should be able to stretch his trust and game management skills to the next level.

Eo, do you think LeBron is too passive- not taking his abilities to the brink? I think he has to accept his limitations as a player and accept his abilities as the team's General. I'll go read the Z post for clarifications.

Also, I like this team as presently constituted. If you can trade Z for the absolute right piece, you do it. But I don't think that the piece you get back- be it sg, pf, or pg is going to be a major impact player.

by **fundamentals** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:11 pm

I think the Cavaliers should see how fast the Rockets would put T Mac on a plane to Cleveland. Hi Pup. :nanner:

by **reppination7** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:27 pm

i dont think Z should be traded, you lose size, Z is helpful when playing a team with a good center, he will draw the center out of the lane make room for lebron or anyone else to drive (which would help against the magic) you give shaq more minutes which will probably wear him out later in the season with his age, having 2 of the tallest centers in the game today is a good thing, and trading Z will lose what ferry got shaq for, more size, which means when we play taller teams, you give shaq alot of minutes, Andy alot and JJ, i would rarther split those minutes between shaq, Z, Andy, and JJ, then just shaq, andy and JJ

by **British_Pharaoh** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:43 pm

fundamentals wrote:I think the Cavaliers should see how fast the Rockets would put T Mac on a plane to Cleveland. Hi Pup.

Mmmm T-Mac

means i wouldn't be able to wear my Rockets jersey anymore though

by **Gradysmanldy** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:36 pm

reppination7 wrote:i dont think Z should be traded, you lose size, Z is helpful when playing a team with a good center, he will draw the center out of the lane make room for lebron or anyone else to drive (which would help against the magic) you give shaq more minutes which will probably wear him out later in the season with his age, having 2 of the tallest centers in the game today is a good thing, and trading Z will lose what ferry got shaq for, more size, which means when we play taller teams, you give shaq alot of minutes, Andy alot and JJ, i would rarther split those minutes between shaq, Z, Andy, and JJ, then just shaq, andy and JJ

Holy crap, man. Not only did you fail to reach any kind of a logical point besides, "Z is tall," but please invest in some punctuation.

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul" --Billy Madison

by **papacass** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:45 pm

Cease wrote:+1 Cass, I think you nutted this one like Roy McAvoy. The flow of the offense greatly increases when LeBron loosens his grip on possessions. He has to lead this team in balancing when to ride hiim and when not to. The guy is a hoops god, so guys will tend to defer, but with confident ballers like Shaq, Delonte, Mo and AP around him- you've got guys who understand how to share the scoring load. LeBron has been a trusting teammate, but with this supporting cast, he should be able to stretch his trust and game management skills to the next level.

The trust factor is key for LeBron. He developed some bad habits earlier in his career when he was surrounded by guys like IHS, Amon, E-Snow and others who weren't initiators. LBJ had to do it all himself, because that was the only option.

When the going gets really tough, he reverts back to that. I still maintain that LeBron hurt the Cavs in the ECF last spring, precisely because he kept the ball and averaged 40 PPG. A lot has been made about Mo disappearing, but Mo was also reduced to a spot-up shooter camped out on the wings waiting for a kickout. That isn't his game, and that isn't Delonte's game. They're not passive players. If you want them to be comfortable and productive, they need their chances to take the ball and create opportunities. LeBron took those chances away from them, particularly in the second halves of ECF games.

Even if Mo is building a little red schoolhouse with his masonry, Bron still has to allow him the chance in the fourth quarter of critical games to take the ball, run the play, and make the primary decision. Same goes for Redz, if and when he's out there.

That's the maturity aspect of LeBron that still needs work. Honestly, it might be the one puzzle piece remaining before he can truly vault to Magic/Jordan/Bird/Dr. J status.

by **pup** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:27 pm

fundamentals wrote:I think the Cavaliers should see how fast the Rockets would put T Mac on a plane to Cleveland. Hi Pup.

Real fast. Shit, Adelman would probably go Bizarro Brad Childress and drive his ass TO the airport.

Then my head would explode.

by **e0y2e3** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:45 pm

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball ... &type=lgns

Awesome John Wall article, just going to put it here because it doesn't warrant its own thread.

This guy has me stupidly excited already, cannot wait to get him into the league.

by **CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:48 pm

Per numerous sources, Anthony Randolph is on the block. He wants out, the team wants him out, and it sounds like it could happen. Other Warriors can be had too.

Randolph's supposed huge potential aside, does he help the Cavs at all TODAY? I really dont see what he would bring to the table.

by **noles1** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:46 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Per numerous sources, Anthony Randolph is on the block. He wants out, the team wants him out, and it sounds like it could happen. Other Warriors can be had too.

Randolph's supposed huge potential aside, does he help the Cavs at all TODAY? I really dont see what he would bring to the table.

Anthony Randolph makes Delonte West seem like relatively normal.

He does bring benefit in a three-team trade those as I am sure there are multiuple idiot GM's out there that would be interested.

by **British_Pharaoh** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:05 pm

How about we get T-Mac and take over the world of basketball?

by **e0y2e3** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:42 pm

noles1 wrote:
CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Per numerous sources, Anthony Randolph is on the block. He wants out, the team wants him out, and it sounds like it could happen. Other Warriors can be had too.

Randolph's supposed huge potential aside, does he help the Cavs at all TODAY? I really dont see what he would bring to the table.

Anthony Randolph makes Delonte West seem like relatively normal.

He does bring benefit in a three-team trade those as I am sure there are multiuple idiot GM's out there that would be interested.

No offense, but I honestly have no idea where this take is coming from. Anthony Randolph has played good soldier for the Dubs despite being bent of and told to enjoy not having any consistent minutes nor a consistent position by Nellie. He's never gone MIA to be treated for bipolar, never rapped and posted it on Youtube at a KFC, never went hunting zombies in suburban MD and all the while has put up incredibly awesome per minute stats while showing as much raw potential as anyone (a handful of players aside) in tAssociation.

I mean if the guy went nuts or ever spoke out of turn in GS I sure as hell missed it, let alone him joining the D-West, Artest pantheon.

No issues w/ not wanting to trade for the guy, as his experience and rawness would make him pretty much useless come playoff hoops time (especially on D) and factually the only way I would want him on our team was if we drafted him and were developing him on our own, guy is just too raw to give up assets for. But someone will and should, as all the guy does is produce in every category when he sees the floor.

So yeah, color me lost noles and you are usually on your shit, so a little guidance would be awesome.

by **noles1** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:05 pm

No idea where it is coming from? Have you followed the guy much other than box scores though?

He routinely has cried on the court when a foul is called on him. He has thrown countless hissy fits and refused to go back in games and even had to have a timeout called by the Warriors just so they could take him out because he didn't want to.

Bucher has covered this multiple times and even had a podcast with Simmons early last year detailing how insane the kid is. Those were mostly from the summer league circuit too.

Kid is the poster child for a HSer that would have been better off with a disciplinarian as a college coach. Never learned the right way to play the game and instead has developed horrible habits and fits the bill for a numbers guy but a terrible teammate and horrible "team" player.

Talent is there, no question but he reaks of a player that has a world of trouble ahead of him.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... s.warriors

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:18 am

Honestly, I started watching Randolph this year and read all the hype and all the NBA circuit love last year (when he was still untouchable).

I love the kid's talent and he is the main reason I have watched the Warriors at all this year (beyond the guarunteed Monte hates everyone, refuses to pass and drops 45 just to spite Nellie because Nellie has Pneumonia that had developed recently). That said, you gotta drop me a link bro. I have read and listened to Buch religiously, I have hit Google, etc. All I find is more and more and more "WHY IS DON NELSON DOING THIS TO THIS KID" and not one link that backs up what you infer in post II, let alone on thing that makes Delonte look stable.

And now that you mention it I do remember the not going back in the game BS and I remember that as being the first sign Nellie was starting to break him like he had done everyone else on the team. You can only lose minutes to Ronnie Turiaf w/ as much talent as he ahs on a bad team for so long. I also can start dropping a novelette of quotes from Nellie that show how badly he has treated him and how many lies and nonfollowthroughs he has dropped on the kid. Kid should be S-Jaxing his way out of the org by now, fact that he isn't says a lot to me.

Honestly, just give me something beyond how inconsistent the raw and extremely unpolished kid is. I expect that from him and that is why he has no place here as a trade target.

*and I understand how often I invoke literary license here.

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:38 am

PS: Buch just made this tweet on Randolph regarding the recent trade rumors:

RicBucher: I watch the undisciplined mess the Ws are, the intangibles AR brings every game + wonder once again: why is he made out to be the problem? (5 minutes ago from web)

by **aoxo1** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:47 am

Trade Z for Anthony Randolph yesterday.

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:51 am

aoxo1 wrote:Trade Z for Anthony Randolph yesterday.

It doesn't help us this year, which is the issue.

I cannot pull the trigger there. Just cannot.

What we have to do has to be for the now and the future. I am all for mortgaging a bit for young talent, but not our only ace in the hole.

by **aoxo1** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:04 am

e0y2e3 wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:Trade Z for Anthony Randolph yesterday.

It doesn't help us this year, which is the issue.

I cannot pull the trigger there. Just cannot.

What we have to do has to be for the now and the future. I am all for mortgaging a bit for young talent, but not our only ace in the hole.

Unless you see them acquiring a C that has the ability to move at more than 3 mph, I'm not sure any other move makes a big difference. Shaq might let us match up with Orlando, but we are going to be so exposed by LAL in the finals if fortunate enough to get there it won't even be funny. I guess we can hope JJ doesn't get stampeded by Bynum/Gasol/Odom and we can go with him and Varajao for 35-40 minutes per.

I was all over getting a better 2, but I don't see that kind of upgrade being substantial enough to close that front court gap we have against the other 4 elite teams (still not counting ATL).

Plus I'm all over Hnat's take re: Chinese. Randolph is a potential superstar. Get him away from Nellie and he will be taking a shit on Josh Smith. (Here's Buc: http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3878418 "The Warriors give DeMarcus Nelson starter's minutes and then cut him. Rob Kurz, a hardworking journeyman who is, at best, a 10th man on a good team, is played ahead of a potential superstar, Anthony Randolph."<----- that's for you noles). Who else are they going to acquire with that high of a ceiling?

And I do see him as helpful this postseason. 20 min per off the bench would be perfectly reasonable at the level he is playing right now.

by **aoxo1** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:14 am

Maybe I need to think about this more. JJ and AR are redundant, even if their styles are not.

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:19 am

aoxo1 wrote:Maybe I need to think about this more. JJ and AR are redundant, even if their styles are not.

Bingo, was about to post this.

And you are going to have to give up Z and Delonte to get someone like him, taking back Turiaf, AR and filler.

That doesn't work for me in the playoffs.

And knowing Rocker as well as I do at this point, no way in hell he includes someone that will be a lost 20 year old in the D rotation in the playoff rotation.

by **noles1** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:06 am

I'll see what I can do providing links to articles and podcasts...

I'm willing to concede that I have looked harshly at Randolph while discounting Nellie being insane, as well. I have just seen countless players like him that are on the same arc and I am possibly putting the cart before the horse. I have watched him play and just don't come away nearly as impressed, then again, dysfunctional teams have a way of doing that to observers. Poor Stephon Curry...

Buch has followed this team quite a bit and could have a logical take there. Then again, he could be cow-towing to agents like many of these ESPN writers do.

Looking at the Cavs, when Powe comes back this team is going to have some decisions to make regarding minutes. We will essentially go 11 deep with minimal difference between players 4-11. To me, that's a problem. I think you have to look to make a significant upgrade move and if you are confident in a guy like Powe, I think you have to pull the trigger on something and it needs to be big. This team currently constructed is not good enough to come out of the East, IMO.

by **rebelwithoutaclue** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:42 am

e0y2e3 wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:Maybe I need to think about this more. JJ and AR are redundant, even if their styles are not.

Bingo, was about to post this.

And you are going to have to give up Z and Delonte to get someone like him, taking back Turiaf, AR and filler.

That doesn't work for me in the playoffs.

And knowing Rocker as well as I do at this point, no way in hell he includes someone that will be a lost 20 year old in the D rotation in the playoff rotation.

Was going to post that as well after reading aoxo. Can't have 2 guys who play the same position trying to learn on the job, especially when the playoffs come around. Would love to have Randolph but it's all about a title this year, and I can't see him helping substantially.

by **ajunior148** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:50 am

I'd jump at the chance to flip Z for Anthony Randolph. LeBron has become a very good leader IMO and would most likely be able to keep this kid in line as he starts to grow up. Let him join our system with a lot more structure than he currently has in GS and see if he can develop.

And no way do I allow JJ Hickson to keep me from making this deal. Randolphs length and athleticism give him the potential to defend the rim and rebound in a way that Hickson will never be able to touch. I still don't see JJ as ever being more than just a good back up big man off the bench on a good team.

I've been saying for a while that this team has needed to get young players with high ceilings and take on the risk of developing them in house because I don't see us trading for another stud player. Obviously that possibility is there but I think that it is more likely that we are able to trade for a Randolph and have him show enough this season that LBJ wants to sign another extension here.

by **papacass** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:20 pm

ajunior148 wrote:I'd jump at the chance to flip Z for Anthony Randolph. LeBron has become a very good leader IMO and would most likely be able to keep this kid in line as he starts to grow up. Let him join our system with a lot more structure than he currently has in GS and see if he can develop.

And no way do I allow JJ Hickson to keep me from making this deal. Randolphs length and athleticism give him the potential to defend the rim and rebound in a way that Hickson will never be able to touch. I still don't see JJ as ever being more than just a good back up big man off the bench on a good team.

I've been saying for a while that this team has needed to get young players with high ceilings and take on the risk of developing them in house because I don't see us trading for another stud player. Obviously that possibility is there but I think that it is more likely that we are able to trade for a Randolph and have him show enough this season that LBJ wants to sign another extension here.

To be devil's advocate for a second, the most compelling reason to not trade Z has been demonstrated over the past few games, and particularly last night in Philly. Namely, Z saves possessions and gets buckets with tipbacks.

When the Cavs are taking horrible shots, or even the good shots are just getting up on the rim and not dropping, Z can poke the ball in before anyone else can reach it. Just one of the advantages of being 7'-3" and coordinated.

In some games, having Z as that "get out of jail free" card really helps. In some games, the net result of his putbacks might be the difference between winning and losing.

Does that mean the Cavs should definitely pass on all trade opportunities involving Z? Of course not. But when you look at how poorly the Cavs can shoot the ball, and have done so ever-increasingly over the early season, they have started to rely more and more on Z's bailouts. Just as they have relied on Andy's ability to smack caroms to teammates and keep possessions alive.

Just a fact of life. Play like the Cavs have been playing, shoot like they've been shooting for the majority of the past four games, and you need second-chance opportunities. The kind Z gives you. That's all I'm saying.

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:29 pm

BTW: this in no way deserves it's own thread, but holy eff was it awesome to see live last night and deserves watching after the fact.

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2009/12/1 ... e-a-maniac

My Tyreke man crush is starting to get kinda scary.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N29fcM4qdiM&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

by **CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:44 pm

I think a lot of the Randolph misconceptions are simply due to his natural facial expressions, which at all times look like he's about to burst in to tears. The only guy who smiles less than him is Tyreke Evans.

by **aoxo1** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:49 pm

Thought about this a little more and I agree with ajunior that you don't not acquire a guy like Randolph because you have JJ Hickson. That assumes that Brown is on board, as I nearly made the same comment as e0 about how much Brown would actually work AR in during the playoffs.

If they were to do it, they would have to be looking to then move JJ for a 5. So making a deal like this would have to be contingent on having another deal in place.

I have confidence Ferry could work out a 3 or 4 team deal involving this many moving parts, but I don't see him doing it as it is fairly risky (but isn't it more risky to think this front court is good enough? esp when they will basically lose both 5's after this year (or at least they won't be effective anymore)?). But, it is hard to see him pulling the trigger on a guy like that exactly because Brown is the coach.

by **ajunior148** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:45 pm

Papa Cass-

Randolph is currently 21st in the league in rebounding per 48 minutes. Admittedly that figure is a little inflated playing Nellie ball but the guy has the potential to be a top 5 rebounder in the league. He also has the potential to be an excellent defender in the post, but that is if he gets away from some of his bad habits (mostly off of what I have read).

Let LBJ teach him on how to play like and handle yourself like a pro basketball player. He reportedly helped JJ learn that lesson this offseason. Randolph is a young guy who allegedly has maturity problems and it seems like Nellie isn't doing a good job of having him work through those.

Just my 2 cents.

by **Gradysmanldy** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:59 pm

I love his potential, but disagree that JJ doesnt have the same upside. When he got the ball earlier this season consistently, he was putting up 14+ a night. All he needs to learn how to do is play defense, which will come in a season or two.

Antawn Jamison, anyone? Wizards continue to spiral the drain....

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:01 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:I love his potential, but disagree that JJ doesnt have the same upside. When he got the ball earlier this season consistently, he was putting up 14+ a night. All he needs to learn how to do is play defense, which will come in a season or two.

Antawn Jamison, anyone? Wizards continue to spiral the drain....

Early word is the Clips and the Wizards are both close to completely folding up the chair and blowing it all up.

by **aoxo1** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:40 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:I love his potential, but disagree that JJ doesnt have the same upside. When he got the ball earlier this season consistently, he was putting up 14+ a night. All he needs to learn how to do is play defense, which will come in a season or two.

Antawn Jamison, anyone? Wizards continue to spiral the drain....

You mean that 3 game (or whatever) stretch before teams realized they can't leave him uncovered rolling towards the basket?

There is a reason his scoring has dropped, and it's not because the Cavs don't want to get slam dunks at the hoop.

by **CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:07 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Early word is the Clips and the Wizards are both close to completely folding up the chair and blowing it all up.

I dont see anything that the Cavs can do with the Clippers. The only large contracts they have after this year are Baron and Kaman. Everyone else either expires after this year or is named Blake Griffin or Eric Gordon (both likely untouchable). They have about $26mm coming off the books at the end of the year, so our biggest trade chip (Z) wont mean much to them. Our 2nd biggest trade chip (JJ) is even more meaningless to them with Blake G on board.

As much as I'd love to see Baron, Gordon, or Kaman in a Cavs uni, there doesnt seem to be much that can be done.

by **StewieG** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:29 pm

PDcavsinsider As a tease for that and my Sunday notes, here's this: For 1st time this season, I started hearing behind scenes trade rumors w/Cavs this wk.

Per Windy tweet

by **e0y2e3** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:43 pm

Solid.

That also means he won't get destroyed on the up and coming trade rumor stories like he did the S-Jax story. Windy's still dialed in, all is well.

BTW: I was talking w/ my boy that watches every Golden State game last night (fantasy stats and the allure of Randolph) and he point blank called Randolph a potential superstar. Not star, not average, super star and I respect his opinion on hoops as much as anyone out there. Absolutely not a sure thing but one of the ten most talented (raw raw raw) players in the game and he does everything whenever he is on the court.

And to whoever said in whatever thread that Randolph was getting crap for chucking 16 footers, sure. But if you watch Golden State play everyone on that team has started shooting as soon as they get the ball because as soon as Monte gets the ball there is a very good chance no one is seeing it again (Monte is averaging 25-30 shots a game WITH three to nine turnovers). Let's put it this way, Monte has attempted more shots than LBJ this year and has more turnovers. He also has 75 less assists and has scored 150 less points (which more shots, again). It's part Monte being Monte and part a huge mother effing middle finger to Nellie, but regardless the guy has become the biggest black hole in the league.

Oh and don't get me started on the black hole that is Corey Maggette.

If you are a ute on the Dubs you better shoot as soon as the ball comes to you because you might not see it again for a good while.

Peeps in the national press are actually starting to wonder out loud if Nellie 2009 is worse than any single Stepian year.

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