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Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:38 pm

Here's one from SI linking Cleveland and Jamison
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ian_thomsen/02/17/cavs.wizards/index.html

one EC exec likes it
"If Cleveland can get Jamison, that will be a home run,'' said an Eastern Conference executive with knowledge of the talks. "Jamison would give them a big boost -- he can finish games with them, and he's a slasher who will get more open shots playing with LeBron. I think that would clinch [the NBA Finals] for them. Boston would have a tough time with them.''



next 47.5 hours should be interesting
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby buckeye319 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:43 pm

Ideally, I think Ferry would like Camby but the Clippers are the only team in the NBA that would make Marcus untouchable. They're awful, they're losing money, but now they decide the want to hold on to him....whatever, it's the Clips.

At any rate, I still wonder if Brad Miller is the backup plan if all else fails.

EDIT: The more I think about this deal, the more I could see it happening. The Wiz have to be desperate to get rid of the salary cap mess they created and the Cavs seem like logical buyers IF they can live with Jamison's contract.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby drewd » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:30 pm

Jamison's contracts to long, he's not the future,,,, so NO!
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby jordan kramer » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:34 pm

not sure this is a good fit for the Cavs. and with what we have right now a bad fit will ruin everything and we'll turn into the Phoenix Suns or Dallas Mavericks (Shaq and Kidd). does anyone remember the last slasher we got from Washington? Jamison is another big who wants to be a guard and thats not what we need
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby StewieG » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:42 pm

jordan kramer wrote:not sure this is a good fit for the Cavs. and with what we have right now a bad fit will ruin everything and we'll turn into the Phoenix Suns or Dallas Mavericks (Shaq and Kidd). does anyone remember the last slasher we got from Washington? Jamison is another big who wants to be a guard and thats not what we need


Actually I think Jamison is a great fit for this team. It gives us another talented big who can stretch the floor, rebound, and just basically put the ball in the hoop. We're primarily a pick & roll, pick & pop team, and I think Jamison works very well with that philosophy. Plus he'd give us a more attractive option to trade if we wanted to make a move for a big name sometime in the next couple years.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby Chris » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:44 pm

His contract sucks but there is mention of the Wiz also thinking about moving their first round pick- which will be right at the top with how bad they are. If they want to shed a HUGE contract like Jamison's, they will probably need to package that pick with it.

Just a thought. Doubt they'd do it, especially for us, but keep in mind.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby CharacterIV » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:46 pm

Jamison's lost a lot of his appeal for me just based on the Amare possibilities, which seem to be impossibilities right now, anyway. It's the damned extension; we just can't have that kind of money sealed up until 2012 unless the name on the paychecks is LeBron James, Mo Williams, Amare Stoudemire or Chris Bosh.

Jamison's a heck of a player, but I'm still not convinced he's a guaranteed championship in the making. I could easily see his contract turning into a total albatross. Even if LeBron extends, Antawn could be the big, immobile contract in a year or two that keeps us from winning (or hopefully, repeating) as NBA Champs. Perhaps I'm being too hard on the guy, since I can't help but compare him to our dream scenarios of Amare or Bosh in Wine & Gold.

Good ol' drab Brad Miller is looking like a nice option. He's got a similar skill set to Z, so we can always have a big who can stretch the floor and pass the ball out on the court, and he basically has the same contract as Wally except it runs through next year, so we'd have even more expiring money for next season.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby CharacterIV » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:50 pm

StewieG wrote:Actually I think Jamison is a great fit for this team. It gives us another talented big who can stretch the floor, rebound, and just basically put the ball in the hoop. We're primarily a pick & roll, pick & pop team, and I think Jamison works very well with that philosophy. Plus he'd give us a more attractive option to trade if we wanted to make a move for a big name sometime in the next couple years.


I do agree with the logic on Jamison's ability to fit into our pick & roll/pop strategies, but I am terrified of that contract, which runs through the end of 2011-2012, yes? Nobody wants money extending past the summer of 2010 right now, so we'd be pretty alone in our desire to land him, but he also precludes the idea of signing Bosh/Amare in 2010.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby drewd » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:53 pm

Chris wrote:His contract sucks but there is mention of the Wiz also thinking about moving their first round pick- which will be right at the top with how bad they are. If they want to shed a HUGE contract like Jamison's, they will probably need to package that pick with it.

Just a thought. Doubt they'd do it, especially for us, but keep in mind.


To get their first round pick that unconditioned would be crazy! I bet they wouldn't do that though... But we would have to trade JJ, are first, and all are expirings, wally, snow, AV, Sasha. and take all their bad contracts, butler, Jamison and etc...

I would take Blake Griffin or Hasheem Thabeet...

Then take his brother in the sencond round... Taylor Griffin
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby CharacterIV » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:59 pm

drewd wrote:
Chris wrote:His contract sucks but there is mention of the Wiz also thinking about moving their first round pick- which will be right at the top with how bad they are. If they want to shed a HUGE contract like Jamison's, they will probably need to package that pick with it.

Just a thought. Doubt they'd do it, especially for us, but keep in mind.


To get their first round pick that unconditioned would be crazy! I bet they wouldn't do that though... But we would have to trade JJ, are first, and all are expirings, wally, snow, AV, Sasha. and take all their bad contracts, butler, Jamison and etc...

I would take Blake Griffin or Hasheem Thabeet...


No way in hell does Washington move that pick without protection. Even if JJ, who many thought would be a higher lottery pick if he came out this year, were included. I'd also gladly take Caron Butler off of Washington's hands. Heck, I might even prefer him to Jamison.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby Chris » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:05 pm

CharacterIV wrote:
drewd wrote:
Chris wrote:His contract sucks but there is mention of the Wiz also thinking about moving their first round pick- which will be right at the top with how bad they are. If they want to shed a HUGE contract like Jamison's, they will probably need to package that pick with it.

Just a thought. Doubt they'd do it, especially for us, but keep in mind.


To get their first round pick that unconditioned would be crazy! I bet they wouldn't do that though... But we would have to trade JJ, are first, and all are expirings, wally, snow, AV, Sasha. and take all their bad contracts, butler, Jamison and etc...

I would take Blake Griffin or Hasheem Thabeet...


No way in hell does Washington move that pick without protection. Even if JJ, who many thought would be a higher lottery pick if he came out this year, were included. I'd also gladly take Caron Butler off of Washington's hands. Heck, I might even prefer him to Jamison.


I think we need a big, Caron Butler is a nice player and is young too but he'd prolly play SG.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby drewd » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:06 pm

CharacterIV wrote:
drewd wrote:
Chris wrote:His contract sucks but there is mention of the Wiz also thinking about moving their first round pick- which will be right at the top with how bad they are. If they want to shed a HUGE contract like Jamison's, they will probably need to package that pick with it.

Just a thought. Doubt they'd do it, especially for us, but keep in mind.


To get their first round pick that unconditioned would be crazy! I bet they wouldn't do that though... But we would have to trade JJ, are first, and all are expirings, wally, snow, AV, Sasha. and take all their bad contracts, butler, Jamison and etc...

I would take Blake Griffin or Hasheem Thabeet...


No way in hell does Washington move that pick without protection. Even if JJ, who many thought would be a higher lottery pick if he came out this year, were included. I'd also gladly take Caron Butler off of Washington's hands. Heck, I might even prefer him to Jamison.


what about some thing like this, and switch firsts... I know they wouldn't do it...
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=besdax
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby CharacterIV » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:07 pm

Chris wrote:
CharacterIV wrote:
drewd wrote:
Chris wrote:His contract sucks but there is mention of the Wiz also thinking about moving their first round pick- which will be right at the top with how bad they are. If they want to shed a HUGE contract like Jamison's, they will probably need to package that pick with it.

Just a thought. Doubt they'd do it, especially for us, but keep in mind.


To get their first round pick that unconditioned would be crazy! I bet they wouldn't do that though... But we would have to trade JJ, are first, and all are expirings, wally, snow, AV, Sasha. and take all their bad contracts, butler, Jamison and etc...

I would take Blake Griffin or Hasheem Thabeet...


No way in hell does Washington move that pick without protection. Even if JJ, who many thought would be a higher lottery pick if he came out this year, were included. I'd also gladly take Caron Butler off of Washington's hands. Heck, I might even prefer him to Jamison.


I think we need a big, Caron Butler is a nice player and is young too but he'd prolly play SG.


I agree; I was more referencing a scenario where we got Caron and Antawn -- I'd probably end up liking Caron more. That guy just plays crazy good every time I see him, it seems. At both ends of the floor. But, Bro Redz is still my #1 choice for a Cavs SG, and I think his return will be a boost for this team in a big way.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby CharacterIV » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:10 pm

drewd wrote:what about some thing like this, and switch firsts... I know they wouldn't do it...
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=besdax


Set the machine down and back away slowly, drewd.

I did love however, with the net +9 wins we'd get from that trade by Hollinger stats, that we'd end up 71-11. An undefeated second half of the season is something I can definitely get down with.
Last edited by CharacterIV on Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby drewd » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:14 pm

CharacterIV wrote:
drewd wrote:what about some thing like this, and switch firsts... I know they wouldn't do it...
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=besdax


Set the machine down and back away slowly, drewd.

I did love however, with the net +9 wins we'd get from that trade by Hollinger stats, that'd we'd end up 71-11. An undefeated second half of the season is something I can definitely get down with.


haha didn't notice that, his stats might be off the chart, the team would be way to good....

Could win ever game next year then... lol

Isn't the bulls record 71 games or is it 72?

Mo, Boobie
Arenas, West
LBJ, Butler
Jamison, Taylor
Z, Blake

Would be the best line-up out there!
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby Exit_Stage_Left » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:18 pm

If Washington is so depserate, I would leave it at Jamison and their 1st for wally and ours. If they decided they weren't that desperate I would tell them good luck finding another trade partner.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby osucrazy18 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:40 pm

no they are that desperate, but hes just to old

unless its wally and our first for jamison and thiers then do it

but any one else definatly not
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby jordan kramer » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:44 pm

StewieG wrote:
jordan kramer wrote:not sure this is a good fit for the Cavs. and with what we have right now a bad fit will ruin everything and we'll turn into the Phoenix Suns or Dallas Mavericks (Shaq and Kidd). does anyone remember the last slasher we got from Washington? Jamison is another big who wants to be a guard and thats not what we need


Actually I think Jamison is a great fit for this team. It gives us another talented big who can stretch the floor, rebound, and just basically put the ball in the hoop. We're primarily a pick & roll, pick & pop team, and I think Jamison works very well with that philosophy. Plus he'd give us a more attractive option to trade if we wanted to make a move for a big name sometime in the next couple years.

i see what you're sayin but if we arn't getting Amare or Camby i dont wanna make a deal. as the team stands we can beat Boston in the playoffs if we are healthy, and i've seen what has happened to teams when they got greedy and sacrificed chemistry mid-season. i'm happy with what we got right now, remember the 1st time we played the Lakers we didn't have Z, the 2nd time we didn't have brother Red. lets not panic and make a move just for the sake of making a move
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby diminishingskills » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:06 pm

I suggested Jamison some time ago, so I am all over this idea. As always, it depends on what the Cavs would have to give up ... but if they can get a Jamison-level player without giving up any of their top seven (Bron, Mo, Redz, Z, Wallace, Varejao, Gibson), they HAVE to do it. He gives them an offensive presence that they've been missing down low. Yes, his contract sucks, but

(a) it's not my money,
(b) I want to win NOW, because you never know if this kind of opportunity will come around again,
(c) Chris Bosh ain't coming here as a FA; please, stop that dream now. Maybe as a trade, but the Cavs will not gut their roster to the degree necessary to pursue Bosh in free agency.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby comish » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:17 pm

DiminishingSkills wrote:I suggested Jamison some time ago, so I am all over this idea. As always, it depends on what the Cavs would have to give up ... but if they can get a Jamison-level player without giving up any of their top seven (Bron, Mo, Redz, Z, Wallace, Varejao, Gibson), they HAVE to do it. He gives them an offensive presence that they've been missing down low. Yes, his contract sucks, but

(a) it's not my money,
(b) I want to win NOW, because you never know if this kind of opportunity will come around again,
(c) Chris Bosh ain't coming here as a FA; please, stop that dream now. Maybe as a trade, but the Cavs will not gut their roster to the degree necessary to pursue Bosh in free agency.


+1

IMHO Jamison makes us the team to beat. Obviously we are in the mix if we stand pat, but the possibility of adding AJ makes me quite giddy :nanner:

You have all watched this guy enough times to know what he would add to this team's offense...giddy I tell you. Contract be damned! :cheers:
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby aoxo1 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:24 pm

DiminishingSkills wrote:I suggested Jamison some time ago, so I am all over this idea. As always, it depends on what the Cavs would have to give up ... but if they can get a Jamison-level player without giving up any of their top seven (Bron, Mo, Redz, Z, Wallace, Varejao, Gibson), they HAVE to do it. He gives them an offensive presence that they've been missing down low. Yes, his contract sucks, but

(a) it's not my money,
(b) I want to win NOW, because you never know if this kind of opportunity will come around again,
(c) Chris Bosh ain't coming here as a FA; please, stop that dream now. Maybe as a trade, but the Cavs will not gut their roster to the degree necessary to pursue Bosh in free agency.


QFT.

The Bosh thing wasn't happening before, and now with the salary cap going down probably the next couple years it definitely isn't happening.

Jamison is a phenomenal fit. He is not going to upset the chemistry of the team. And he has a skillset that will be effective as he ages. He goes through 2011-12. Well, this year is a 20/9 guy. Next year I would doubt that we see a decline. So maybe he starts declining in 2010 and 2011. But he will be at worst a solid bench player at that point. Maybe expensive, but he'll be better than Joe Smith was for us. And in the meantime, he gives our 8 man playoff rotation a huge boost. Right now we are counting on Sasha or Wally to play between Gibson and Andy, but Jamison can play the 3 or 4. Doesn't hurt our depth at the wing and improve it in the front court.

Hell, San Antonio still plays Michael Finley 28 min a night and his per minute production isn't that far off from what it was 5 years ago. He's 35.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby Chris » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:38 pm

c) Chris Bosh ain't coming here as a FA; please, stop that dream now. Maybe as a trade, but the Cavs will not gut their roster to the degree necessary to pursue Bosh in free agency.


This was everyone's dream, and I always wondered how possible it really was. I have to wonder, how are the Knicks going to be able to sign two big star FAs in 2010 with the way the salary cap/NBA/economy is shaping up? they can't...right?
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby StewieG » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:49 pm

drewd wrote:what about some thing like this, and switch firsts... I know they wouldn't do it...
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=besdax


Lol!

Arenas has the worst contract in the league, and I'm not exaggerating.

I'd be wary of Jamison's contract (even though I love his game)...there's no realistic scenario on Earth that could convince me to take Arenas' contract.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby GreatGoo » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:23 pm

DiminishingSkills wrote:I suggested Jamison some time ago, so I am all over this idea. As always, it depends on what the Cavs would have to give up ... but if they can get a Jamison-level player without giving up any of their top seven (Bron, Mo, Redz, Z, Wallace, Varejao, Gibson), they HAVE to do it. He gives them an offensive presence that they've been missing down low. Yes, his contract sucks, but

(a) it's not my money,
(b) I want to win NOW, because you never know if this kind of opportunity will come around again,
(c) Chris Bosh ain't coming here as a FA; please, stop that dream now. Maybe as a trade, but the Cavs will not gut their roster to the degree necessary to pursue Bosh in free agency.


Good points here.

I'm still on the fence about this one. Say we keep Wally and Snow and their contracts expire at the end of the season. Who could we get as a free agent? While i like Jamisons skill now, but I'm not a fan of his contract or age.

I think i prefer Camby or Jamison at this point.

Also, I think if we get Jamison he is our 6 man.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:38 pm

I think the Wizards would end up needing to give us something to take Jamison. It'd be one thing if his contract were up after next season, but the length and his age make it so Washington needs to make it worth our while to give them a quick out on the contract. That could be draft compensation. There has been some talk of the Wizards being willing to move their high lottery pick this year to save money. We'd have to take more than just Jamison off their hands to make this work.

Here's what I try for. We take Jamison and Etan Thomas. That would save them $18M next year in salary alone and another $5M in luxury tax - $23M in savings for the Wizards. They get Wally.

And we also end up swapping first rounders this year. That'll save them more money next year, probably around $4M or so. That's the price of taking a long term contract off your hands.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby GreatGoo » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:54 pm

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:I think the Wizards would end up needing to give us something to take Jamison. It'd be one thing if his contract were up after next season, but the length and his age make it so Washington needs to make it worth our while to give them a quick out on the contract. That could be draft compensation. There has been some talk of the Wizards being willing to move their high lottery pick this year to save money. We'd have to take more than just Jamison off their hands to make this work.

Here's what I try for. We take Jamison and Etan Thomas. That would save them $18M next year in salary alone and another $5M in luxury tax - $23M in savings for the Wizards. They get Wally.

And we also end up swapping first rounders this year. That'll save them more money next year, probably around $4M or so. That's the price of taking a long term contract off your hands.


Etan Thomas hasn't played in the last 15 games. Plus the Wizards picks is going to be very high. It is pretty much their future. Hard to believe they would give that up. But If they gave us Jamison and their draft pick? Get it done tommorrow.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:59 pm

greatgoo wrote:
Etan Thomas hasn't played in the last 15 games. Plus the Wizards picks is going to be very high. It is pretty much their future. Hard to believe they would give that up. But If they gave us Jamison and their draft pick? Get it done tommorrow.


No, their future is pretty much tied into Arenas. And it depends on how much the FO cares about money.

Remember that the economy is in the toilet. The Cavs could save them $32M essentially just next year in a rough economy. The Wiz would get a high draft pick the following year in all likelihood.

It all depends on how desperate the Wizards are to dump a long term contract for ending deals. Ending deals are not cheap things. The Cavs give up their own flexibility in taking Jamison. If they desperately needed Jamison to compete it would be one thing, but Ferry is probably willing to stand pat if necessary. That means Washington needs to blow him out of the water IF they do want to move the salary. Swapping firsts would do that.

I doubt Washington would do it, but I might be willing just to push it to the deadline and find out how far they will budge.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby buckeye319 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:11 pm

Yeah, if you're taking on Jamison and Etan Thomas, you almost have to get something else. However, I think giving up the #1 pick (potentially) might be a bit much or the Wizards' fanbase to handle. They're God awful and they're going to give up the one glimmer of hope they have? It would be real tough to pull the trigger on that.

On the other hand, they deserve it for signing Arenas and Jamison to those outlandish deals. Ferry should hold a tough line.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:24 pm

buckeye319 wrote:Yeah, if you're taking on Jamison and Etan Thomas, you almost have to get something else. However, I think giving up the #1 pick (potentially) might be a bit much or the Wizards' fanbase to handle. They're God awful and they're going to give up the one glimmer of hope they have? It would be real tough to pull the trigger on that.

On the other hand, they deserve it for signing Arenas and Jamison to those outlandish deals. Ferry should hold a tough line.


I'd say the fanbase is irrelevant if the owner and the org are taking a financial bath. The NBA salary cap works in such a way that these ending contracts are highly prized and their worth increases the closer we get to the trade deadline.

How badly does Washington want to unload Jamison's contract (coupled with Thomas')? Are there any other takers? Do the Cavs REALLY NEED to do this? They are one of the best teams in the NBA right now. Sure, adding Jamison would push them further to the top, but if Ferry believes they can win the NBA title AS IS then no need to be desperate.

But what if Washington IS desperate to unload salary?

The SI article from yesterday said the few buyers out there were looking to take great advantage of their trading partners. Think about how little LA gave up for Gasol last year. The Pistons gave up next to nothing for Rasheed Wallace but they had more competition there than the Cavs have and I think Wallace was an ending deal that time around.

Here we have Washington wanting to move a talented PF that is under contract for three seasons beyond this one when he'll be 35. We have a team that inked Arenas to a long term deal and he has yet to play.

I think the Cavs end up demanding a lot from Washington because our contracts are more in demand by them.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:25 pm

I'm all aboard the Antawn Express. I'd even have to sleep on offering JJ for him, since he'd be an excellent fit for the team.

That said, its a poker game. Who blinks first: Ernie Grunfeld's wish to hit the franchise nuke button and start dumping salary or Danny Ferry's wish to add that one last piece to the puzzle?
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby swerb » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:46 pm

Simmons podcast from yesterday, at the end, he threw several deals out there that he thinks would make sense for both teams, and hes hit on these in past years.

Cavs send Wally, Snow, Hickson, and '09 #1

to Sacramento for ...

Kevin Martin, Mikki Moore, Kenny Thomas, Shelden Williams
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby buckeye319 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:14 pm

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:
buckeye319 wrote:Yeah, if you're taking on Jamison and Etan Thomas, you almost have to get something else. However, I think giving up the #1 pick (potentially) might be a bit much or the Wizards' fanbase to handle. They're God awful and they're going to give up the one glimmer of hope they have? It would be real tough to pull the trigger on that.

On the other hand, they deserve it for signing Arenas and Jamison to those outlandish deals. Ferry should hold a tough line.


I'd say the fanbase is irrelevant if the owner and the org are taking a financial bath. The NBA salary cap works in such a way that these ending contracts are highly prized and their worth increases the closer we get to the trade deadline.

How badly does Washington want to unload Jamison's contract (coupled with Thomas')? Are there any other takers? Do the Cavs REALLY NEED to do this? They are one of the best teams in the NBA right now. Sure, adding Jamison would push them further to the top, but if Ferry believes they can win the NBA title AS IS then no need to be desperate.

But what if Washington IS desperate to unload salary?

The SI article from yesterday said the few buyers out there were looking to take great advantage of their trading partners. Think about how little LA gave up for Gasol last year. The Pistons gave up next to nothing for Rasheed Wallace but they had more competition there than the Cavs have and I think Wallace was an ending deal that time around.

Here we have Washington wanting to move a talented PF that is under contract for three seasons beyond this one when he'll be 35. We have a team that inked Arenas to a long term deal and he has yet to play.

I think the Cavs end up demanding a lot from Washington because our contracts are more in demand by them.


I certainly hope you're right, because I'm starting to believe the Cavs should not make this deal unless their 2009 #1 pick is involved. Jamison's contract is simply too much for the Cavs to bear without something else, IMO.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:24 pm

Swerb wrote:Simmons podcast from yesterday, at the end, he threw several deals out there that he thinks would make sense for both teams, and hes hit on these in past years.

Cavs send Wally, Snow, Hickson, and '09 #1

to Sacramento for ...

Kevin Martin, Mikki Moore, Kenny Thomas, Shelden Williams

I really don't see Snow getting dealt, and that's a pretty goshdarned expensive for just Kevin Martin.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby Doc » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:37 pm

Swerb wrote:Simmons podcast from yesterday, at the end, he threw several deals out there that he thinks would make sense for both teams, and hes hit on these in past years.

Cavs send Wally, Snow, Hickson, and '09 #1

to Sacramento for ...

Kevin Martin, Mikki Moore, Kenny Thomas, Shelden Williams


Swerb, please tell me that you are merely relaying this from the podcast and not endorsing it. I like Kevin Martin, but the other 3 are suck/suck/suck. If you want to simplify it a bit...great. I've tried, and I can't. I don't think I can find a good match, if we're talking about Martin as opposed to Miller. And, FWIW, I never want to see Mikki Moore in a Cavalier uniform.

I suppose you could deal Martin/Miller/Thomas for Wally/Snow/Wright/Sasha/#1. Taking $28 mil off of their books for next year (well, 23-24 mil since they get Pavs) might do the trick. Just browsing the roster, I don't think they need Hix, as they have some young and talented bigs. Who knows. I don't think Sac-town is the best fit for us...again, while I like Martin (and Miller to a lesser extent), if I'm dealing Wally, I want a big man, not someone to eat into Redz' time on the court. Granted, Martin is good. But I don't think he's "the man". If you can pull Miller and Martin...well, I'll deal with it, as it's enough good depth all around to take us all the way. But make the Maloof's (is it still the Maloof's?) come knocking on our door. Just like we need Washington to come knocking.

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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:37 pm

Swerb wrote:Simmons podcast from yesterday, at the end, he threw several deals out there that he thinks would make sense for both teams, and hes hit on these in past years.

Cavs send Wally, Snow, Hickson, and '09 #1

to Sacramento for ...

Kevin Martin, Mikki Moore, Kenny Thomas, Shelden Williams


Not gonna happen. The Cavs are in a position of strength here a giving up Hickson and a #1 to go along with two expiring deals to take Sacramento's crap just for Martin. I think Martin should be the reward for taking the garbage.

Maybe Simmons is just looking at the longterm and hoping the Cavs bungle this so that maybe his Celtics can be in the limelight for a little bit longer.

I'd rather have Shelden Williams' wife play for the Cavs. She's better than him right now, pregnancy and all.

Honestly, there's not much that Sacramento has that I'd be interested in. Martin is good but his numbers would be greatly diminished playing here and he's not what we really need. I'd like to have better depth at SG (Raja Bell please!) to go along with better strength up front.

I really think Jamison is a good option at this point. He's been a steady performer throughout his career and I think he can perform for a couple more years. He's very versatile on offense and can stretch the floor by playing in the post or moving out to the perimeter. I also think he's better on defense than most think. He's not All-NBA, but I think he can work in Brown's system. He has a good basketball IQ and would give the Cavs a legit #2 scoring threat. Z, Jamison, LeBron, West, and Mo on the floor looks plain nasty to me.

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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby diminishingskills » Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:36 am

Chris wrote:This was everyone's dream, and I always wondered how possible it really was. I have to wonder, how are the Knicks going to be able to sign two big star FAs in 2010 with the way the salary cap/NBA/economy is shaping up? they can't...right?


Keep in mind the following points:

1. For a player with at least 7 years' experience (which will be the case for Bron, Bosh, Wade, and Amare in 2010), the max contract is 30% of the salary cap.

2. In order to sign a free agent outright (i.e., without using Bird rights, or the mid-level exception, etc.), a team must have that room available UNDER the cap. e.g., if the Cavs want to sign Bosh, then they'll need to clear enough cap space so that they have that room to fit that max deal. Right now, they are way over the cap, so they'd need to renounce/trade a majority of their roster.

3. The Cavs would need to have that cap room INCLUDING LeBron's salary. Before somebody suggests it again, the Cavs CANNOT maintain LeBron's rights without having it count against the cap (that is the whole idea of "cap holds"). So they could not sign Bosh with, then go over the cap (i.e., using their Bird rights) to retain LeBron. They would have to get far enough under the cap to sign Bosh and re-sign LBJ.

4. Under the NBA rules, if you have room under the cap and use it, you cannot then use the mid-level exception to sign another quality player. That exception exists only if you are above the cap in the first place. Continuing this scenario of signing Bosh, the Cavs would have to wait till 2011 to use that exception.

Think very carefully about what points #3 and 4 mean. The Cavs would have to strip their roster almost bare. Based on current salary figures, I think they could keep Mo, Delonte, Gibson, and Hickson, and have the room to sign Bosh and re-sign LeBron. That's it. They would have to renounce their rights to everybody else over the next season and a half -- Varejao, Pavlovic, Z, Wallace, even Tarence Freaking Kinsey. They would not be able to take on any other contracts between now and then, via FA or trade. They probably would have to Sarver their #1 pick in this upcoming draft, as they would not be able to afford that contract while keeping enough cap room open. So in 2010, they'd have a roster of the six players I mentioned (Bron, Bosh, Mo, Redz, Gibson, Hickson) and Nine Guys Named Moe.

The same is true for the Knicks, and explains why having two max players is a pipe dream for them too. If you commit 60% of your available money to two players ... you're not going to have much else with that remaining 40%. Sure, you'll have a couple of marquee players at the top of the list, but can they play two positions at once, 48 minutes a night? Didn't think so.

Bottom line -- Bosh to Cleveland (via FA; I suppose you never know if there could be a trade) is a pipe dream. It ain't happening. And we don't want it to happen, because of what it would mean to the rest of the roster, and thus the team.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby swerb » Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:57 am

Talked to Sam Amico this morning. Said the chances are likely still better than 50/50 of no deal, but that Jamison is the guy that Cavs are most focused on.

Also said they are looking hard at a deal for Richard Jefferson.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:49 am

Swerb wrote:Talked to Sam Amico this morning. Said the chances are likely still better than 50/50 of no deal, but that Jamison is the guy that Cavs are most focused on.

Also said they are looking hard at a deal for Richard Jefferson.


Which also means to me that the Cavs are in a position of power here. Milwaukee has been rumored to be willing to dump Jefferson just for salary cap relief. Washington is rumored to be willing to give up their lottery pick this year. They may be asking more than the Cavs want to pay but if the Cavs are the only team that can help them clear salary then this could get interesting over the next 24+ hours.

Jefferson would be a nice add. Jamison would too.

And the Cavs actually have enough ending deals to be able to add both. If they do that it shows great commitment by Gilbert because he'll be over the luxury tax for a couple more years.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby Chris » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:19 pm

DiminishingSkills wrote:
Chris wrote:This was everyone's dream, and I always wondered how possible it really was. I have to wonder, how are the Knicks going to be able to sign two big star FAs in 2010 with the way the salary cap/NBA/economy is shaping up? they can't...right?


Keep in mind the following points:

1. For a player with at least 7 years' experience (which will be the case for Bron, Bosh, Wade, and Amare in 2010), the max contract is 30% of the salary cap.

2. In order to sign a free agent outright (i.e., without using Bird rights, or the mid-level exception, etc.), a team must have that room available UNDER the cap. e.g., if the Cavs want to sign Bosh, then they'll need to clear enough cap space so that they have that room to fit that max deal. Right now, they are way over the cap, so they'd need to renounce/trade a majority of their roster.

3. The Cavs would need to have that cap room INCLUDING LeBron's salary. Before somebody suggests it again, the Cavs CANNOT maintain LeBron's rights without having it count against the cap (that is the whole idea of "cap holds"). So they could not sign Bosh with, then go over the cap (i.e., using their Bird rights) to retain LeBron. They would have to get far enough under the cap to sign Bosh and re-sign LBJ.

4. Under the NBA rules, if you have room under the cap and use it, you cannot then use the mid-level exception to sign another quality player. That exception exists only if you are above the cap in the first place. Continuing this scenario of signing Bosh, the Cavs would have to wait till 2011 to use that exception.

Think very carefully about what points #3 and 4 mean. The Cavs would have to strip their roster almost bare. Based on current salary figures, I think they could keep Mo, Delonte, Gibson, and Hickson, and have the room to sign Bosh and re-sign LeBron. That's it. They would have to renounce their rights to everybody else over the next season and a half -- Varejao, Pavlovic, Z, Wallace, even Tarence Freaking Kinsey. They would not be able to take on any other contracts between now and then, via FA or trade. They probably would have to Sarver their #1 pick in this upcoming draft, as they would not be able to afford that contract while keeping enough cap room open. So in 2010, they'd have a roster of the six players I mentioned (Bron, Bosh, Mo, Redz, Gibson, Hickson) and Nine Guys Named Moe.

The same is true for the Knicks, and explains why having two max players is a pipe dream for them too. If you commit 60% of your available money to two players ... you're not going to have much else with that remaining 40%. Sure, you'll have a couple of marquee players at the top of the list, but can they play two positions at once, 48 minutes a night? Didn't think so.

Bottom line -- Bosh to Cleveland (via FA; I suppose you never know if there could be a trade) is a pipe dream. It ain't happening. And we don't want it to happen, because of what it would mean to the rest of the roster, and thus the team.


I guess all those dynasty pipe dreams go right out the window, then, eh? We'll have to just keep surrounding LeBron with role players rather than legit stars.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby 4thQtrGlory » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:47 pm

I wish there was some confirmation of the rumors, or some more news regarding the rumors. I hate waiting. If anyone hears anything, post it here.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:59 pm

4thQtrGlory wrote:I wish there was some confirmation of the rumors, or some more news regarding the rumors. I hate waiting. If anyone hears anything, post it here.


Don't get too excited til this time tomorrow. When those seeking to dump salary find themselves more desperate to get it done with 3 hours left to do it. Probably will be more of the same til then.

People will pull the wine & gold blinders on and look forward to a Cavs team featuring some combination of Bosh, Camby, Stoudemire, Jamison with incoming rookies Blake Griffin and Stephon Curry. :lmfao:
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby waborat » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:06 pm

Peeker643 wrote:
People will pull the wine & gold blinders on and look forward to a Cavs team featuring some combination of Bosh, Camby, Stoudemire, Jamison with incoming rookies Blake Griffin and Stephon Curry. :lmfao:


I've got to throw these old blinders away and get some newbies because they still show CPIII
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby petes999 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:46 pm

DiminishingSkills wrote:
The same is true for the Knicks, and explains why having two max players is a pipe dream for them too. If you commit 60% of your available money to two players ... you're not going to have much else with that remaining 40%. Sure, you'll have a couple of marquee players at the top of the list, but can they play two positions at once, 48 minutes a night? Didn't think so.

Bottom line -- Bosh to Cleveland (via FA; I suppose you never know if there could be a trade) is a pipe dream. It ain't happening. And we don't want it to happen, because of what it would mean to the rest of the roster, and thus the team.


I agree that it's hard to sign a FA and have two of them ... as you said to have a team of Mo, Lebron, West and Bosh ... Cleveland can only keep JJ, Gibson and garbage ... not much of a bench. Same with NY .

Yet, I have thought about it. The cards may be in alignment for Cleveland as teams do salary dump due to the economic conditions.

What is overlooked is Cleveland has $45 million in expiring contracts in next 2 years. So if a team like Washington gives us a Jamison and Thomas for Wally this year and something for Snow... and next year we can flip a Jamison + JJ + picks for Amare or Bosh (something for nothing if they express desire to leave their teams if they don't want to resign) and flip Z and Wallace contracts for 1/2 way decent players... we can keep a $80 to $90 million cap #

Bosh, Lebron at $34 million which is 40% of our payroll # of say $85 million ... We can keep Mo and West. We can resign V, Sasha and others. The rest of the space would be for those bad contracts for 1/2 way decent players (better than the CBA all-stars to fill the bench).
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby waborat » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:07 pm

petes999 wrote:
The cards may be in alignment for Cleveland as teams do salary dump due to the economic conditions.




Image

Note: no disrespect Pete, just funny to see Cleveland and "positive" economic conditions in the same sentence
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby diminishingskills » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:07 pm

petes999 wrote:What is overlooked is Cleveland has $45 million in expiring contracts in next 2 years. So if a team like Washington gives us a Jamison and Thomas for Wally this year and something for Snow... and next year we can flip a Jamison + JJ + picks for Amare or Bosh (something for nothing if they express desire to leave their teams if they don't want to resign) and flip Z and Wallace contracts for 1/2 way decent players... we can keep a $80 to $90 million cap #

Bosh, Lebron at $34 million which is 40% of our payroll # of say $85 million ... We can keep Mo and West. We can resign V, Sasha and others. The rest of the space would be for those bad contracts for 1/2 way decent players (better than the CBA all-stars to fill the bench).


Pete, the way you describe it is really the only way it can happen -- if the Cavs trade for a star like Bosh or Amare. Then they would have Bird rights on both LBJ and that second superstar, and could then go over the cap to re-sign both, instead of having to clear all that cap room to sign as a FA.

And the chances of getting a superstar like that without having to give up some pretty valuable assets in return are ... not good. Yes, trades like last year's Gasol trade do happen, but not often.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby CharacterIV » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:20 pm

DiminishingSkills wrote:...So in 2010, they'd have a roster of the six players I mentioned (Bron, Bosh, Mo, Redz, Gibson, Hickson) and Nine Guys Named Moe.

Bottom line -- Bosh to Cleveland (via FA; I suppose you never know if there could be a trade) is a pipe dream. It ain't happening. And we don't want it to happen, because of what it would mean to the rest of the roster, and thus the team.


Nine guys named Moe, or Mo? I could deal with a roster that had 10 Mo Williamses on it. We'd be the run n' gun capital of the basketball world.

:sillies:.

Good point on the bottom line; I guess if we want a second superstar to pair with LeBron, we'll have to get lucky with a draft pick. Heck, San Antonio did it twice; Ginobili was a second-rounder, and wasn't Tony Parker like pick #29 or something? We just need to follow the blueprint; Mike Brown's gotten the team to play D like the champion Spurs (at least at points) so let's just hope Ferry can pull some Spur-esque rabbits out of hats on draft day, and in shrewd transactions like picking up Roger Mason. That whole line of reasoning makes me a lot more hesitant to move JJ, though. He's got superstar tools, if he ever puts his game together.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby CP » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:33 am

As if the Cavaliers haven't been tied to enough different players right now, Windhorst throws out a familiar name: James Posey.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2009/02/game_changer_thunder_back_out.html

Good wing player and decent depth, but not exactly a guy on the radar during the trade season. Probably pure speculation on his part, but you never know. You do have to question why the Cavaliers would trade assets for a guy they could have had as a FA this past offseason, but turned down because of the contract commitments, for which they would now be responsible.

Salaries also don't match unless you're looking at something like a small 3-way trade:

Chris Wilcox and Posey to Cleveland, Wally and picks/cash to Oklahoma City and Joe Smith to New Orleans. Not sure those teams would be willing to trade again but New Orleans still wants to cut salary and it behooves an up-and-coming team like Oklahoma City to get something for expiring assets.
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby waborat » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:40 am

Here's the latest from W&G this morning:

OK, I'll get right to it. I've gotten you guys prepared well for what might or might not happen today, so I don't think I have to be too wordy here.

You know where we stand as far as what we'd like to get accomplished, and what backup plans we have hopes to get taken care of if possible. So, you know where we stand with all that.

You know I can't get into names as well, from past experiences ...so, no sense in anyone going down that road.

But, I guess a good place to start is what has happened throughout the league and where that leaves us. The Brad Miller deal was a bad thing for us, in that we had hopes of getting Camby and Salmons.. We were hoping trade attempts on Miller would fall flat and we would end up sitting there waiting to pounce. So, with that trade going down, it ended any need for them to move Camby, and that ended that.

The other item of note was the trade that got rescinded. That happening reopened a couple doors that had just been closed. So, some possiblities still exist in that picture.

And, I believe we may have contacted the Bulls just to see if they were content to stand pat after their deals yesterday. Not sure if that lead anywhere or not.

We still have a number of conversations going on with a number of different teams. What has to happen in order for us to make a deal work for us, is either we, or the other parties of interest have to come off the stances they've taken up til this point.

From our standpoint, in most cases that means putting JJ Hickson out there for the taking, on the other side, it might take them dropping JJ from their demands and accepting a number 1 pick instead.

But, of course it gets alot more complicated than just that, but that's the basic ABC's of the situation as it stands now.

No deals are in place yet, and positions and stances being taken up til now have to change in order for the pieces to fall into place for a deal for us.

For the first time I really felt some dejection yesterday. Don't know what all it meant, but, it appears we thought we had something big ready to happen yesterday, and it all blew up in their face. Left some people in the GM office down...

We'll see what takes place, I have no feel for where today could take us. I'm prepared for anything, and you all should be as well. That means the possiblity that we go into the second half of the season with the same team as the first half.

I've gotta head out to Independence. I've got some things I have to get accomplished out there. I'm hoping to get back at some point ..but not sure it will be before the 3pm deadline. But, I'll take the laptop with me.


Not sure at all what the Miller trade had to do with Camby being traded though? 3 team trade?

Also, what was the trade that made the FO bummed yesterday?

Finally, the Bulls? Laura? :lmfao:
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby Dozen » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:51 am

People can say what they want about W&G but the guys gives the best insight to any team around Cleveland that doesn't require insider status.
http://www.thesportshole.com

http://www.youtube.com/TheSportsHole


I have never seen so many kok heads all lumped together like that ~ Yhimmie
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Re: Cavs trade talk/rumors

Unread postby Ziner » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:52 am

I would assume the something big would have been Jamison?
In the end, we're all "only for a limited time," you guys.
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