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To Amare or Not to Amare?

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To Amare or Not to Amare?

Get Amare.
26
87%
Stay Away aka Wait for Someone Else
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Total votes : 30

To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby Bill the Butcher » Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:29 pm

Simple. Pick the first if you want him and think he'd be a good fit. Pick the latter if you think it's not gonna work out as well.

I'd just like to see where these boards stand on this potential move.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby dpdad » Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:35 pm

Get him. 21 ppg and 9 boards, a legit big man, 26 years old, three-time all-star.

Wally, JJ, and a future no. 1. I'd even give them Andy, if that's what it takes.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby Triple-S » Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:48 pm

I'm not sure yet.

I'd be willing to give up a first rounder, Wally, MAYBE, MAYBE Andy.

I'm not willing to give up JJ, I think he has a lot of potential that's not worth giving up.

I still hold by "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" saying right here.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:55 pm

Triple-S wrote:I'm not willing to give up JJ, I think he has a lot of potential that's not worth giving up.


We've been waiting on potential for 45 years, my friend. Where has it gotten us?

Take this deal and run with it. The future is NOW, NOW, NOW.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby CharacterIV » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:06 pm

Make it happen, Cap'n.

Amidst all the Amare hoopla, we have to keep in mind that Ferry might actually be targeting someone else, though. Suppose Ferry comes back from Phoenix having swapped Wally for just some good players. Players that will make an impact, even help us win a championship, but not necessarily of Amare's caliber.

Keep focused on the Mantra, though: JJ Hickson will be an All-Star someday. Only trade him for someone who is an All-Star now.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby reppination7 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:09 pm

well for me it depends who we are giving up, so im not going to vote
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby Exit_Stage_Left » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:21 pm

I agree with Herm...we could have opposing defensive units in shambles trying to cover our Mo, Delonte and LBJ...and then throw in Z spacing the floor and Amare ripping up the inside...

Mo>Fisher
Delonte<<Kobe
Lebron>>Luke Walton
Amare=Gasol
Z<Bynum

looks like a much more interesting series with the move. The only worry I have about the deal is our depth at SF...the position will basically consist of Lebron and possibly Sasha which would be a terrible site...I also hope we don't have to give up Andy because he is our only other option at C unless we ask Amare to play there...other than that this trade makes me smile!
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby BooyaCS » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:22 pm

If you can get Amare right now you do it. Other options that may or may not be available next year might not come into fruition. Also by getting Amare now and Keeping Delonte gives us a core of

Mo - 25
Delonte - 25/26
LBJ - 24
Amare - 26

That is 4 out of 5 starting positions. Then not to mention our depth (if we can keep AV) is

AV
Boobie
Sasha
Terrence Kinsey
DJ

So the only hole this wold leave us is at C with either Z or Ben.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:25 pm

Exit_Stage_Left wrote:The only worry I have about the deal is our depth at SF...the position will basically consist of Lebron and possibly Sasha which would be a terrible site


Keep in mind, it'll be possible for Wally to accept a buyout and come back to Cleveland in thirty days.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby diminishingskills » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:33 pm

This poll doesn't really provide the correct possible responses.

The options should be:

1. Yes

2. HELL YES!

I've been as high as anybody on JJ's future, but there is no way in hell that his potential should hold up this deal (I am assuming Wally Expiring Contract + JJ will be the core of whatever the Suns receive in return). Amare is one of the top 20 players in the league -- probably top 10 if he's engaged, as opposed to playing for an aging team that is too good to get into the part of the lottery that counts, but nowhere near good enough to make waves in April/May. If you get a chance to get a player like that without giving up a core piece (which I define as Bron, Mo, and Redz; everybody else is on the table), you do it the same way you go to Mt. Splashmore: now, now, now, now, now.

Disclaimer: I do not know what Stoudemire is like as a teammate or in the locker room. There are signs of him being a me-first guy. Those same signs were played up with KG before he became a Celtic, and with Mo before he became a Cavalier. Only people in the biz are really going to know what kind of reaction Amare can have in any given team's test tube.

The Cavs can win it all without Amare. They have a better chance of winning it all with him. This is their time, and if the shot is there, they have to take it.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby aoxo1 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:47 pm

DiminishingSkills wrote:This poll doesn't really provide the correct possible responses.

The options should be:

1. Yes

2. HELL YES!

I've been as high as anybody on JJ's future, but there is no way in hell that his potential should hold up this deal (I am assuming Wally Expiring Contract + JJ will be the core of whatever the Suns receive in return). Amare is one of the top 20 players in the league -- probably top 10 if he's engaged, as opposed to playing for an aging team that is too good to get into the part of the lottery that counts, but nowhere near good enough to make waves in April/May. If you get a chance to get a player like that without giving up a core piece (which I define as Bron, Mo, and Redz; everybody else is on the table), you do it the same way you go to Mt. Splashmore: now, now, now, now, now.

Disclaimer: I do not know what Stoudemire is like as a teammate or in the locker room. There are signs of him being a me-first guy. Those same signs were played up with KG before he became a Celtic, and with Mo before he became a Cavalier. Only people in the biz are really going to know what kind of reaction Amare can have in any given team's test tube.

The Cavs can win it all without Amare. They have a better chance of winning it all with him. This is their time, and if the shot is there, they have to take it.


The JJ syndrome must be a result of us all following the Tribe as well. For them, we have to pump ourselves up trading proven talent, even all star best 2-3 at his position talent, for guys who may one day manage to be quality major leaguers and have an outside shot at the all star game. So we're all used to overvaluing potential far too much, because the Tribe has to do it that way due to market.

But in the NBA, it is ALL about dealing potential for realized ability when you are at the top. Let's face it: there are tons of ballers that can jump out of the gym and seem like they could be great, but very few of them ever progress beyond that level.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby papacass » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:06 pm

HermanFontenot wrote:
Exit_Stage_Left wrote:The only worry I have about the deal is our depth at SF...the position will basically consist of Lebron and possibly Sasha which would be a terrible site


Keep in mind, it'll be possible for Wally to accept a buyout and come back to Cleveland in thirty days.


Or Ferry could try to get Kerr to toss Grant Hill into the deal. I don't think Hill would want to be on a rebuilding team at age 36.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby Exit_Stage_Left » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:11 pm

Herm, I am pretty sure there is something in the rules for this year that states we can't get a player back who is bought out...I have seen it numerous times on the board so that is something to look into. Either way, Amare does in fact put this team over the top and then back around a couple more times!
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby aoxo1 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:12 pm

Exit_Stage_Left wrote:Herm, I am pretty sure there is something in the rules for this year that states we can't get a player back who is bought out...I have seen it numerous times on the board so that is something to look into. Either way, Amare does in fact put this team over the top and then back around a couple more times!


Are you sure you aren't thinking about the fact we can't trade for Joe Smith, since we traded him away earlier this year?

Because MyDyess is back on the Pistons. So yeah.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:15 pm

Exit_Stage_Left wrote:Herm, I am pretty sure there is something in the rules for this year that states we can't get a player back who is bought out...I have seen it numerous times on the board so that is something to look into. Either way, Amare does in fact put this team over the top and then back around a couple more times!



As long as a player is bought out by March 1st, he's eligible to play in the playoffs, even if he isn't on a roster by March 1st.
Fuck the Browns...
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby diminishingskills » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:24 pm

aoxo1 wrote:The JJ syndrome must be a result of us all following the Tribe as well. For them, we have to pump ourselves up trading proven talent, even all star best 2-3 at his position talent, for guys who may one day manage to be quality major leaguers and have an outside shot at the all star game. So we're all used to overvaluing potential far too much, because the Tribe has to do it that way due to market.


This is one of those times when I wish that I was truly, filthy, Bill Gates-level rich. I'd ask JJ how much it would take for him to legally change his name to "Brandon Phillips". I'd get more pleasure from that than from a sixth yacht.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:40 pm

DiminishingSkills wrote:Disclaimer: I do not know what Stoudemire is like as a teammate or in the locker room. There are signs of him being a me-first guy. Those same signs were played up with KG before he became a Celtic, and with Mo before he became a Cavalier.

And Wince before he became a Net and Iverson before he became a Nugget and Agent Zero-For-Three before he became a Wizard and Elton Brand was the final piece of the Sixers' puzzle...

At this point, I'd even go with Wally and Andy, 'cause at the least Andy to Amare would be a lateral move. JJ, though... I just have this nagging feeling we'll be watching JJ representing the WC in the ASG five years from now with nothing to show for it.

Only people in the biz are really going to know what kind of reaction Amare can have in any given team's test tube.

True, which is why I'm hoping Ferry, Brown, and their scouts 'n assistants are all going for the extra-credit homework.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby MadThinker88 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:01 pm

If somehow a 3 team deal could be worked out, Amare to Toronto, Bosh to Cleveland and a package to Phoenix, then I am for it.

Amare in Cleveland I think creates more problems then he solves.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby waborat » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:01 pm

Just had a good chuckle going back and reading our posts on draft night and the few days afterwards

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7946&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=150

Back then, 99% of us never heard and/or knew anything about him (ex. Madre's "JJ Hickson?" over & over...lol) and now after just 3 months of limited playing time some people aren't willing to give him up for one of the best power forwards in the game today? Interesting
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:06 pm

waborat wrote:Just had a good chuckle going back and reading our posts on draft night and the few days afterwards

http://www.swerbsblurbs.com/boards/view ... &start=150

Back then, 99% of us never heard and/or knew anything about him (ex. Madre's "JJ Hickson?" over & over...lol) and now after just 3 months of limited playing time some people aren't willing to give him up for one of the best power forwards in the game today? Interesting


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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby Chris » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:10 pm

On my way to class today WKNR had Greg Brinda screaming (when is he not?) about how horrible, awful, and terrible it'd be to get Amare and break up this amazing team chemistry.

Riiiiiiight. I mean, 4 time All Star and top big in the league is available for peanuts, a basic salary dump, and we should ignore it and instead keep our Wally Expiringcontractiak and 20 year old Rookie who plays only in garbage time.

Interesting logic, Brinda.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby waborat » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:12 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:
Amare in Cleveland I think creates more problems then he solves.


Like having to find room for a trophy case @ The Q...

Boobie would have to pick a new number...

Dan Fegan wouldn't have any leverage over the team this summer...

Taco Bell would have to give out even more Chalupas...

We wouldn't have to hear or read that LBJ is leaving...
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby pup » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:24 pm

Fellas. Have you ever watched playoff basketball? Amare does not play playoff basketball. Not even when the Suns were the best team in the West. And he had to take the time to gaurd someone.

He is a great regular season addition. Might be enough to overtake Boston for the #1. But KG will light this guy up like the Vegas Strip.

Playoffs equal defense. Give me the best defensive team in the NBA and we will be better off than adding an offensive players.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:25 pm

Amare offers so much it's far too tempting even considering the less enticing aspects of his game and character
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:25 pm

Pup, are you sure about what you are saying here?

Amare's defense has been questionable, but the guy goes bucket for bucket with Duncan every year in the playoffs. He is the only power forward in the game that can seemingly score on Duncan at will and has done it many times in the playoffs. If not for the suspensions two years ago he probably would have led the Suns past the Spurs because of this fact.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby waborat » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:26 pm

Chris wrote:On my way to class today WKNR had Greg Brinda screaming (when is he not?) about how horrible, awful, and terrible it'd be to get Amare and break up this amazing team chemistry.

Riiiiiiight. I mean, 4 time All Star and top big in the league is available for peanuts, a basic salary dump, and we should ignore it and instead keep our Wally Expiringcontractiak and 20 year old Rookie who plays only in garbage time.

Interesting logic, Brinda.


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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby pup » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:38 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Pup, are you sure about what you are saying here?

Amare's defense has been questionable, but the guy goes bucket for bucket with Duncan every year in the playoffs. He is the only power forward in the game that can seemingly score on Duncan at will and has done it many times in the playoffs. If not for the suspensions two years ago he probably would have led the Suns past the Spurs because of this fact.


Suspensions? Wasn't he the guy who was to dumb to not run onto the court?

Going point for point with someone doesn't win in the playoffs. Getting stops does. You going 32-10, but allowing Duncan to go 34-16...that won't get it done.

Defense wins. Whoever plays better defense for a 7 game series wins that series. And the Cavs become a worse defensive team with this move.

Not even taking into account the Big Ben Wallace Crybaby factor.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby Chris » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:40 pm

Just...wow. People bad mouthing a trade where we give up peanuts for a 4 time All Star who is young and would entice LeBron to stay because he finally has a legit #2 option.

Just...I don't even know what to say.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby waborat » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:44 pm

Pup wrote:Fellas. Have you ever watched playoff basketball? Amare does not play playoff basketball. Not even when the Suns were the best team in the West. And he had to take the time to gaurd someone.

He is a great regular season addition. Might be enough to overtake Boston for the #1. But KG will light this guy up like the Vegas Strip.

Playoffs equal defense. Give me the best defensive team in the NBA and we will be better off than adding an offensive players.


I still believe it's the system Pup...how many of these present players were good defensively before Ferry & Roker's philosophy helped most of them? Sure Wallace & Redz have always been above average, but Mo, Wally, Z, AV have all gotten better with their D...hell, we were talking about Lebron e few years ago about his defense and look where it's at today? The nice thing is Amare already has the offensive skills and I believe with some direction he'll be fine at the other end

I just can't see these players not making him step up his effort and improving?

BTW, I agree with eO about his matchups against Duncan...some of the most fun to watch today
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby pup » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:51 pm

Defense is about 20% "knowing what to do".

The rest is want. Heart. Balls.

I have never seen Amare exhibit any of those.

Someone did say something that made me think in one of these threads....

With Danny Ferry making the call, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. If he decides that Amare can and will get the job done. That he won't mind being 2nd fiddle on offense and he will bust his ass on the defensive end. I have a level of trust in Danny Ferry that I have never had in a Cleveland GM.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby waborat » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:52 pm

Pup wrote:Defense is about 20% "knowing what to do".

The rest is want. Heart. Balls.

I have never seen Amare exhibit any of those.

Someone did say something that made me think in one of these threads....

With Danny Ferry making the call, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. If he decides that Amare can and will get the job done. That he won't mind being 2nd fiddle on offense and he will bust his ass on the defensive end. I have a level of trust in Danny Ferry that I have never had in a Cleveland GM.


You sure you just don't want to see Andy lose minutes?
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby Chris » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:57 pm

Well, Amare said he'd be a great fit in Cleveland. So, I dunno, let's take him at his word.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby diminishingskills » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:04 pm

Chris wrote:On my way to class today WKNR had Greg Brinda screaming (when is he not?) about how horrible, awful, and terrible it'd be to get Amare and break up this amazing team chemistry. Riiiiiiight. I mean, 4 time All Star and top big in the league is available for peanuts, a basic salary dump, and we should ignore it and instead keep our Wally Expiringcontractiak and 20 year old Rookie who plays only in garbage time. Interesting logic, Brinda.


If that isn't an endorsement to do this move yesterday, I don't know what is.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby reppination7 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:29 pm

i say amare coming here will either make or break him

if he can by into the defense, and try (kinda like the same situation with mo) it proves he wants to get better and wants to play in cleveland to win a championship, if not and he wants to be "the guy" it will make people look at him less and want him less, and to me, if he acts that way, the only teams i see going for him, our teams that dont have a shot at winning

so a trade to cleveland will show amare for what he really is, a true talented player trying to get better, or a mess of talent that has to big of an ego to get past to ever win a title (mabury)
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby GreatGoo » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:43 pm

Anyone that voted "no" to put down the crack pipe.

Repeat after me. "JJ MIGHT be good in 2 to 3 years."
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby MadThinker88 » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:51 pm

Considering the Raptors just got Marion, I have to wonder if they would be tempted to match him with his former teammate in Amare? If so, the Cavs might be able to make this a 3 way deal and land Bosh.

Given the option, I take Bosh over Amare. I believe most of us would.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby Chris » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:52 pm

MadThinker88 wrote:Considering the Raptors just got Marion, I have to wonder if they would be tempted to match him with his former teammate in Amare? If so, the Cavs might be able to make this a 3 way deal and land Bosh.

Given the option, I take Bosh over Amare. I believe most of us would.


k you dont have an option. Now choose who you want.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby BooyaCS » Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:30 pm

Amare can be had for cheap bosh will cost at least Wally, JJ, Boobie, Delonte and picks. Toronto is a lottery team that is trying to develop a young core with bargnani, bosh, calderon. I doubt Collagenlo will trade Bosh before next year's deadline.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby pup » Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:30 pm

greatgoo wrote:Anyone that voted "no" to put down the crack pipe.

Repeat after me. "JJ MIGHT be good in 2 to 3 years."



What if voting no had nothing to do with JJ?
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby Chris » Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:33 pm

BooyaCS wrote:Amare can be had for cheap bosh will cost at least Wally, JJ, Boobie, Delonte and picks. Toronto is a lottery team that is trying to develop a young core with bargnani, bosh, calderon. I doubt Collagenlo will trade Bosh before next year's deadline.


Bosh isnt even available this year. We havent heard a single PEEP about Bosh being available. If a top 10 player was available for trade we'd know.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby GreatGoo » Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:36 pm

Pup wrote:
greatgoo wrote:Anyone that voted "no" to put down the crack pipe.

Repeat after me. "JJ MIGHT be good in 2 to 3 years."



What if voting no had nothing to do with JJ?


Well then you should replace Danny Ferry.
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Re: To Amare or Not to Amare?

Unread postby pup » Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:40 pm

greatgoo wrote:
Pup wrote:
greatgoo wrote:Anyone that voted "no" to put down the crack pipe.

Repeat after me. "JJ MIGHT be good in 2 to 3 years."



What if voting no had nothing to do with JJ?


Well then you should replace Danny Ferry.


Only if he makes this deal.

Just kidding.

Read all of the posts before making a comment like this. I have said multiple times if Ferry thinks Amare will work, I can buy it.
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