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More KLove talk

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More KLove talk

Unread postby Spin » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:25 pm

I would welcome LeQuitter back if he brings KLove with him.

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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby bookelly » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:19 pm

Cavs reportedly offering Dion and Bennet plus a #1 for Love. Minny wants Wiggins. Gonna be an interesting weekend.

Kyrie/Delly
Dion or Wiggins/Allen?
King/?
Love/TT
Andy/?

We need another 5, 3, and 2 if this deal goes down.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby redneckofsc » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:21 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Mike Miller comes in as well
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:44 pm

bookelly wrote:Cavs reportedly offering Dion and Bennet plus a #1 for Love. Minny wants Wiggins. Gonna be an interesting weekend.

Kyrie/Delly
Dion or Wiggins/Allen?
King/?
Love/TT
Andy/?

We need another 5, 3, and 2 if this deal goes down.


Good freaking Lord...If Griffin can bring in Love for Dion Bennet and a pick, doesn't that immediately put him neck and neck with John Hart for best GM in Cleveland history after around 4 months on the job?

I'd give up Wiggins if that's what it takes, but I don't see where Minny's leverage would come from. If that is the best offer they can get they have to take it, right? I hope we play hard ball.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby Govbarney » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:47 pm

If I am the Cavs I tell Milwaukee they can have two of our three first round draft picks, Bennit, and Waiters. If they want Wiggans , I tell them to go fuck them selves, and we will wait till he is a Free Agent next year.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby redneckofsc » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:48 pm

I read somewhere that Wiggins' camp was told he would not be traded. Do not know how accurate it is though.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:51 pm

redneckofsc wrote:I read somewhere that Wiggins' camp was told he would not be traded. Do not know how accurate it is though.


I'm actually kind of torn because I don't really have a firm grasp of the salary cap ramifications. In a vacuum, of course you take 4-5 years of Love over the question mark that is Wiggins future. But we have control of Wiggins at a far lower salary obviously. How much room to maneuver would the Cavs have if they carried the salaries of Irving, James, and Love over the next 5 seasons? Is it possible that it's just better to keep Wiggins no matter what? Even if it takes any chance at a deal off the table?
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby redneckofsc » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:55 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
redneckofsc wrote:I read somewhere that Wiggins' camp was told he would not be traded. Do not know how accurate it is though.


I'm actually kind of torn because I don't really have a firm grasp of the salary cap ramifications. In a vacuum, of course you take 4-5 years of Love over the question mark that is Wiggins future. But we have control of Wiggins at a far lower salary obviously. How much room to maneuver would the Cavs have if they carried the salaries of Irving, James, and Love over the next 5 seasons? Is it possible that it's just better to keep Wiggins no matter what? Even if it takes any chance at a deal off the table?


If they are going to do something, they have to do it this year. Irving's max contract kicks in next season, and they won't be able to add anyone.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:58 pm

redneckofsc wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
redneckofsc wrote:I read somewhere that Wiggins' camp was told he would not be traded. Do not know how accurate it is though.


I'm actually kind of torn because I don't really have a firm grasp of the salary cap ramifications. In a vacuum, of course you take 4-5 years of Love over the question mark that is Wiggins future. But we have control of Wiggins at a far lower salary obviously. How much room to maneuver would the Cavs have if they carried the salaries of Irving, James, and Love over the next 5 seasons? Is it possible that it's just better to keep Wiggins no matter what? Even if it takes any chance at a deal off the table?


If they are going to do something, they have to do it this year. Irving's max contract kicks in next season, and they won't be able to add anyone.


OK. So is it possible to compete long term with 3 max contracts if they can pull off the Love trade?
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby jerryroche » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:11 pm

Not to say that KLove wouldn't be a great addition, but if his price is Wiggins...free agent Pau Gasol, anyone?
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:14 pm

I'm seeing on twitter (I know) that Cavs sources are still saying that Wiggins is not being traded. FWIW. That's per Amico.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby bookelly » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:16 pm

Pau would be a great fit for sure. But...

Per Windy, Mike Miller looks to be signing soon. He got amnestied by the Heat and they owe him 6.8 Mil. That 3 Mil we got from Gee would be a nice fit.

I expect Allen would take the MLE @ 5Mil. And that would be the only way to get Pau. Unless we can get the Lakers to sign and trade Pau and he agrees to the 10 Mil trade exemption we got from BOS.

This makes my head hurt. The NBA has so many ways to skirt the cap it's insane.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby pup » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:41 pm

redneckofsc wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:
redneckofsc wrote:I read somewhere that Wiggins' camp was told he would not be traded. Do not know how accurate it is though.


I'm actually kind of torn because I don't really have a firm grasp of the salary cap ramifications. In a vacuum, of course you take 4-5 years of Love over the question mark that is Wiggins future. But we have control of Wiggins at a far lower salary obviously. How much room to maneuver would the Cavs have if they carried the salaries of Irving, James, and Love over the next 5 seasons? Is it possible that it's just better to keep Wiggins no matter what? Even if it takes any chance at a deal off the table?


If they are going to do something, they have to do it this year. Irving's max contract kicks in next season, and they won't be able to add anyone.


The 2nd round trade they made this year comes with a Brandon Hewyard $2M salary, which counts as $10M+ in a trade next off season.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby StewieG » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:23 pm

No reason to include Wiggins. None. Minny has zero leverage, and they're not getting a better offer from anyone else. Supposedly the Warriors won't include Klay Thompson, which means their offer is David Lee and some crappy picks. The Celtics want in, but their offer is even worse - Jeff Green and some picks. Dion and Bennett ain't all that, but they're young and have room to grow at least.

And picking up Haywood's expiring next year was a great under-the-radar move. Griffin does his homework.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby bookelly » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:00 pm

We have a shitload of 1st round picks we can use to sweeten the deal even though most of them are protected. I think Dion has to go because we've got to clear some money right? Or is it cool if its a trade to kill your cap?

Bennet plus 4 1st rounders should do it. Hell, make them throw in that kid from Senegal Guart or whatever. We need another big.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby redneckofsc » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:03 pm

Chris Broussard is reporting the Cavs told Wiggins he is not going to be traded.

Also said Waiters likely won't be apart of any Love trade.

Said Cavs are looking for a third team.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:41 pm

If you have the team you have right now a few weeks ago, and Kevin Love is in the draft, I believe you take him over Wiggins. They are now in the position where established star trumps what might be - in a big way.

I mean, look at the teams make-up. A big man who can stetch the floor, rebound and pass. That's not only an established star - it's filling your greatest needs.

So, I'm not crazy about jettisoning Wiggins, but it's certainly justified for Love ILO.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby bookelly » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:48 pm

The more I think about it the more I'd like to wait on Love. Add some shooters and let this squad develop together.

Kyrie/Delly
Wiggins/Dion
Lebron/Miller
TT/ Bennet
Andy/Gasol?
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby scott » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:02 pm

Govbarney wrote:If I am the Cavs I tell Milwaukee they can have two of our three first round draft picks, Bennit, and Waiters. If they want Wiggans , I tell them to go fuck them selves, and we will wait till he is a Free Agent next year.


Spot on
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby bookelly » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:34 pm

After watching some D-league highlights...we should think twice about trading Bennet. Guy looks like a monster.

We could just put hyper athletes all over the place and play one guy in the post LeBron, TT or Andy, and just roll people.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby OldDawg » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:28 am

bookelly wrote:The more I think about it the more I'd like to wait on Love. Add some shooters and let this squad develop together.

Kyrie/Delly
Wiggins/Dion
Lebron/Miller
TT/ Bennet
Andy/Gasol?


scott wrote:
Govbarney wrote:If I am the Cavs I tell Milwaukee they can have two of our three first round draft picks, Bennit, and Waiters. If they want Wiggans , I tell them to go fuck them selves, and we will wait till he is a Free Agent next year.


Spot on

I've been thinking this all day. I wouldn't hurry to throw some of our young players in for KLove. We do have the leverage. We can wait a year and pick him up as an FA. And Minny gets nothing in return.

We can go one year and really see what Wiggins, Dion, and Bennett can do in this new environment. Folks are saying Bennett is in the best shape of his life. And he certainly had some game in college. Lets see how promising our young Wiggins is at the NBA level. I'd hate to give him up and watch him become "the next LeBron" somewhere else. (Wiggins was tagged by some as the next LeBron out of high school)

The Cavs are uniquely positioned to play for the short term and the future at the same time... especially for a small market team. I'd want to be careful that we don't get too short sighted. I think we made panicked personnel decisions during the 1st LeBron era just trying to find guys to get us over the top. Insodoing, we kept getting older, somewhat washed up guys to improve us in order to appease LBJ. Many of these moves were at the expense of the future of the organization.

However, since its been 50 years since CLE has had a championship team, I wouldn't blame anyone at all for mortgaging the future for a title or two. At least I could die with a memory of a CLE title.

Of course, I hadn't figured Kyrie's max contract kicking in next year when considering waiting a year to add Love.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:37 am

I think Dion is out. Most talented and worst fit.

And I'm dealing Wiggins for Love if I must.

Without a moment's hesitation.

But I do want a rim-protecting 5.

Can we deal Bennett for Noel today? ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:44 am

I love Dion because is one of our only decent shooters and can score quick points frequently, even if he is a bit streaky. But trading him in a deal for KLove makes the most sense of course. I don't want to part with Wiggins and I don't see a situation in which we need to. Getting Love is not the be all and end all for winning a championship. But it would be f***ing sweet
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby OldDawg » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:43 pm

This piece argues some of my sentiments about being short-sighted about Wiggins and what he might be for the long term.

http://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/12/andrew ... -cavaliers

Don't get me wrong. I want KLove. But I'd hate to throw Wiggins into the deal.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby bookelly » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:35 pm

Wiggins isn't going anywhere. That seems set in stone. Right now the offer seems to be Bennet and Dion plus one #1 pick for Love.

Cavs have ALL the leverage here. Since the emotions of yesterday have worn off its clear that they don't have to hurry any offer for KLove. In fact, I would table the offer and even weaken it as time rolls along.

As much as I'd love Love (heh), I'm more interested in seeing how all these pieces might fit together. Since they've now got two more bigs in Haywood and Stanford dude (project, but he might be a terrific stretch 5 in this offense) they are Miller and Allen away from a complete roster:

Kyrie/Delly
Wiggins/Dion (6th man)/Allen
King/Miller
TT/Bennet/Stanford rook Powell
Andy/Haywood (I do miss Zeller here...but LBJ is nice compensation)

I love the flexibility: Dion 2/1, Wiggins 2/3, LBJ 1/2/3/4/5, TT 4/5, Bennet 4/3, Powell 4/5, Andy 5/4. Whomever they play they can create nightmare match-ups. Wanna go big? No problem, we'll play inside out and kill you with spot up 3's. Wanna go small? No problem, we'll blow you up in the post. This team is a nightmare with or without Love.

That's your 12, and it's a damn fine one. That group may or may not win it this year, but they are poised to dominate for years and years and years (new salary cap anyone?) after.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby furls » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:55 pm

I would like to see what this roster can be as it is constituted before trading off the parts. We don't know what Bennett and Waiters could be on this team. I do worry about a teams ability to win long term with the roster limitations caused by a "Big 3."

I think Wiggins is going to be a star, trading him right now would be a mistake. Minnesota has 0 leverage.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby bookelly » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:14 am

The fact is we a backed into a corner regarding the cap. I'd stick with where we are and wait till the season starts. IF (wink wink) Andy is hurt by mid-season, his salary plus a bucketful of picks will get us Love at the trade deadline. And we wouldn't have to part with in-house young talent. This really works if Love demands it. Which he will.

This btw is a fucking master genius plan.

Andy would then be released and could re-sign with the team in a month!

/It's happened before people.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:22 am

OldDawg wrote:This piece argues some of my sentiments about being short-sighted about Wiggins and what he might be for the long term.

http://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/12/andrew ... -cavaliers

Don't get me wrong. I want KLove. But I'd hate to throw Wiggins into the deal.


The more I think about it, the more I think this. They can take their pick of any 2 players a draft pick, but leave my Wiggins alone. He has too much potential, he comes too cheap, and we control him for too long to give him up.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby StewieG » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:30 am

The biggest reason I want to keep Wiggins is defense. You can stick him on the opposing team's best 1, 2, or 3 leaving LeBron to conserve some energy on that end of the floor. Maybe not this year, but going forward.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:53 pm

I would really like to see us get Love but hopefully for a package of:

Dion

+

1 of TT or Bennett

+

2 future firsts


Dion has shown (particularly in the 2nd half of last year) that he is a player in this league. I think he averaged 19pts/game or so in the 2nd half of last year.

Bennett seems to have a ton of upside but totally unproven. If Flip is just trying to keep his job and maximize his wins in 2014/2015 maybe they go the route of Dion and TT. Dion brings a lot of offense and TT can grab rebounds, Minnesota would have control of them for many years (not the case with Love who will be gone next year any way). They would also have the upside of the 2 firsts we would give them.

It's not a bad package and seems like a fair deal for both clubs. I'm just not sure what Golden State and the other teams are currently offering?
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby bookelly » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:38 am

You are paying too much.

Minny drew a pair of 4's on the flop and are hoping to buy the pot. We are holding an Ace and a Q. Stupid to fall for a bluff before the flop.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:25 pm

OldDawg wrote:The Cavs are uniquely positioned to play for the short term and the future at the same time... especially for a small market team. I'd want to be careful that we don't get too short sighted. I think we made panicked personnel decisions during the 1st LeBron era just trying to find guys to get us over the top. Insodoing, we kept getting older, somewhat washed up guys to improve us in order to appease LBJ. Many of these moves were at the expense of the future of the organization.

However, since its been 50 years since CLE has had a championship team, I wouldn't blame anyone at all for mortgaging the future for a title or two. At least I could die with a memory of a CLE title.

Kevin Love is a top 5 player in the league at 25 years old. Not exactly "mortgaging the future" or "getting older".
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby OldDawg » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:57 pm

Yes, I understand.

The other factor is if it does take Wiggins some time to become the impact player we envision him to be, by the time that happens, will LBJ be on the downslide. Whereas, add Love to the mix now, we instantly become likely the best team in the NBA. KLove is a big, a great shooter and a great rebounder... 3 things this roster needs.

The question is, can we wait to next year's free agency to acquire KLove while we see what some of the younger pieces can do?

I certainly want my cake and eat it too (Wiggins and KLove). The funny thing is that a month ago none of us dreamed any of this was possible.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby JCoz » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:56 pm

I'm pretty torn on the issue of giving up Wiggins, has to be some concern about defense and future cap concerns with 3 max players.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby scott » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:58 pm

OldDawg wrote: The funny thing is that a month ago none of us dreamed any of this was possible.


I hope they keep Wiggins. Love the potential there. If he ends up part of a deal to get KLoe I won't complain at all. Neither option is bad, especially from where we sat a month ago, like OD says.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby furls » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:06 pm

My question is, Why pay top dollar for K Love?

He is a star and he is young, no question about either. He makes this team go from interesting to immediate contender status, buy why pay so much when you can wait and pay less.

I guess Minny could hold out and maybe get a better offer, but I doubt it and if they did, well then we are "stuck" with Wiggins. The price for Love will get lower as the trade deadline approaches. We will also have a better sense of what Anthony Bennett and Andrew Wiggins are, so why not wait? If Wiggins is looking like a serious ROY contender and future perennial All-Star, then you have to keep him. Minnesota has no leverage here. They can either accept our scraps in the winter or deal with the fact that K-Love is gone and they have nothing to show for it.

Deciding to wait is still a decision. In this case, I think it is the best decision.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:57 pm

JCoz wrote:I'm pretty torn on the issue of giving up Wiggins, has to be some concern about defense and future cap concerns with 3 max players.


Disagree. Wiggins is a plus defender. His issues are ball skills and freeing himself off the dribble.

Which he doesn't have to worry about with LeBron drawing constant double teams. The Return elevates Wiggins from a rookie who would have possibly struggled to a guy who could have a huge impact. Huge.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:39 pm

I'd still offer them their choice of four off the following list of five:

Tristan Thompson
Anthony Bennett
Dion Waiters
CLE 2015 1st RD Pick
MIA 2015 1st RD Pick (or rights to same if somehow falls in Top10 next year)

I'd tell them to pick their four now and be brief about it or forever (as Calamity Jane said in Deadwood) Be Fucked.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby scott » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:44 am

furls wrote:My question is, Why pay top dollar for K Love?

He is a star and he is young, no question about either. He makes this team go from interesting to immediate contender status, buy why pay so much when you can wait and pay less.

I guess Minny could hold out and maybe get a better offer, but I doubt it and if they did, well then we are "stuck" with Wiggins. The price for Love will get lower as the trade deadline approaches. We will also have a better sense of what Anthony Bennett and Andrew Wiggins are, so why not wait? If Wiggins is looking like a serious ROY contender and future perennial All-Star, then you have to keep him. Minnesota has no leverage here. They can either accept our scraps in the winter or deal with the fact that K-Love is gone and they have nothing to show for it.

Deciding to wait is still a decision. In this case, I think it is the best decision.


The Cavs can trade for Love right now. A year from now they won't have the salary cap space to sign him without gutting the roster. They would need Minny and Love to agree to a sign and trade. If we don't get Love before the trade deadline it become a lot harder to pull off.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:59 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
JCoz wrote:I'm pretty torn on the issue of giving up Wiggins, has to be some concern about defense and future cap concerns with 3 max players.


Disagree. Wiggins is a plus defender. His issues are ball skills and freeing himself off the dribble.

Which he doesn't have to worry about with LeBron drawing constant double teams. The Return elevates Wiggins from a rookie who would have possibly struggled to a guy who could have a huge impact. Huge.


I see now that I was not as clear as I thought - What I meant was the concerns are if we gave Wiggins up for Love. Love is most likely a net negative or just a wash defensively on a team thats already bad defensively, and 3 max players is a huge strain on the cap.

Wiggins is a plus defender on a rookie contract.

Thats what I meant.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby bookelly » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:32 am

We'll wait and we should. We have ALL the leverage here. Id like the sign and trade option. We get to keep all our young players, add Love, and give away a shitload of useless (to us) picks. With the Cap going up significantly in 2016 we could keep this whole group together (Andy on the MLE) for 6-8 years with 3 max players on the roster.

Kyrie/Delly
Dion/Wiggins/Miller
LeBron/Jones
TT/Bennet
Andy/Haywood/Powell

Wow.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:06 am

We don't KNOW the Cavs have all the leverage unless you KNOW no other team is sniffin' around.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby redneckofsc » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:46 am

In related news, it looks like AV cut his hair:

Image
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby bookelly » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:24 pm

Aw man, no more Sideshow Bob.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby StewieG » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:29 pm

Not to worry, his hair is still there, just hidden under his hat.

Can't believe I just googled that. I need a hobby.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby redneckofsc » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:18 am

TWolves want Wiggins, Waiters and a pick for Love. Kind of surprised they aren't asking for Bennett or TT.

Not sure I want to deal both Waiters and Wiggins, because then you are left with Miller at SG.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:13 am

Minn is leaking out all kinds of stuff that the Cavs and Warriors are denying.

Flip is asking for a King's ransom (no pun) for Love and based on what teams got Paul, Gasol, Garnett for, the Cavs should not budge. For once Simmons got it right and Cleveland should be patient and see how this team plays the first part of the season. As the season plays out, the price to get Love will greatly reduce, especially if Flip sees that he'll lose Love and get holding his groin
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby Doc » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:20 am

I doubt they give Wiggins, let alone both, unless lbj is really pushing them. The young talent here was a big part of the draw. Can't use all your ammo on one target, because what then? I would kill to have love here, but not at the expense of Wiggins. If you really believe the essay, this isn't win now mode. It has to come from love that he only will go to Cleveland. And then we can discuss a deal for waiters plus.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby jerryroche » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:47 am

To KLove or not to KLove? It comes down to this:

1) Do you want to highly increase your chances of winning the NBA Championship this year and next? Or…

2) Do you want to experience some growing pains this year, maybe increase your chances of winning the O'Brien Trophy next year AND the three or four years hence?

Everybody's got their priorities. It's the priorities of the organization that will determine whether we get Love or no love. I can probably live with either -- as long as it doesn't involve another damned Five-Year Plan.
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Re: More KLove talk

Unread postby Nicastro13 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:38 pm

I read an article earlier today, can't seem to find it to link, but it was in regards to a 3 way trade with the Cavs, Twolves and Warriors. Cavs get Love, Twolves get Klay Thompson and Tristan and Gstate gets a bunch of 1st rounders. Not sure why the other two would do the deal, but it would be an absolute steal for us. I thought it was on Bleacher report, but can't find it ( it was a link on my FB timeline). It credited a bunch of insider tweets throughout the article, so it wasn't your typical BR nonsense.
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