With the 5th pick, the Cleveland Browns take...

[wmurphyhh]

I see the Browns picking 5th. The following teams are worse (in no particular order): Raiders, 49ers, Texans, and Jets.

I actually think the Raiders will get the #1 pick. I'd expect Art Shell to take Quinn. Yet, wouldn't be surprised with Al Davis fell in love with Ted Ginn. Perfect weapon for that 1970 offense.

So what do we pick ? We'll be a bad team this season, but not bad enough to get Peterson. Cleveland luck - good, but not good enough, or bad, but not bad enough. The only time we were bad enough is when we needed to be was with LeBron.

Are we set on Charlie or do we take blow things up at QB with Troy Smith ?

Do we reach for a shut down corner in Leon Hall ? Two Michigan grads on this team makes me want to puke.

Swerb mentioned that we need a big hitting safety. I don't see any Sean Taylors, Ed Reeds, or Roy Williams wannabes worthy of the 5th pick.

I say we'll never get anywhere until we draft some big fatties for the O or D lines. Pup keeps telling me that we've got to make a sexy pick if we are in the top 5.
Was Julius Peppers a sexy pick when the Panthers took him #2 ? He sure made Tucker look like he should have retired last Sunday afternoon.

I can only hope we slide up into the top 2 for Peterson or slide down a few notches where it would be acceptable to take Levi Brown, Joe Thomas, or Pitcock.

[furls]

The only game I think the Browns have a good shot at is week 17 against Houston or perhaps the Jets at home. I think they may actually go 1-15 or 2-14 this year, and that is no joke.

Look down their schedule and let me know what games you think they will win to end up at #5.

[swerb]

Great Blue North just updated their mock this morning ...

http://www.gbnreport.com/2007projection.html

1 Oakland Brady Quinn QB Notre Dame

2 Tennessee *Calvin Johnson WR Georgia Tech

3 Tampa Bay Joe Thomas OT Wisconsin

4 Detroit *Brian Brohm QB Louisville

5 Houston *Adrian Peterson RB Oklahoma

6 Green Bay *Marshawn Lynch RB California

7 Cleveland *Jake Long OT Michigan

8 Arizona Levi Brown OT Penn State

9 Miami Gaines Adams DE Clemson

10 San Francisco Marcus McCauley CB Fresno State

[swerb]

And for the record, I see the Browns winning 4 or 5 games this year. By no means is this a good football team, but the Browns still play pretty good defense, and have alot more offensive weapons than ever before since the return.

They'll win a couple no one is expecting em to, beat either Tampa or Houston, and maybe steal one more. I see them landing in the 6-8 hole.

At least at this point, GBN is projecting four offensive tackles to go in the first 19 picks.

Joe Thomas, Wisconsin
Levi Brown, Penn St
Jake Long, scUM
Sam Baker, USC

We all saw last week that Ryan Tucker is on his last leg. Shaffer has been OK so far, but I feel he may be a better long term fit at RT. The Browns line is still weak and old. And a good LT can make the whole rest of the OL better. So left tackle has to be a top priority.

As does DL and CB. I think you have to assume that the Texans will take Peterson if he is there, and I see them finishing worse than us. Adrian Peterson fans should start cheering for the Texans to win some games.

GBN's top DL and CB, in order of how they are projecting them to go off the board ...

DE Gaines Adams, Clemson
CB Marcus Macauley, Fresno
DT Frank Okam, Texas
DT Alan Branch, Michigan
DE Quentin Moses, Georgia
CB Darelle Revis, Pitt
CB Leon Hall, Michigan
DT Quinn Pitcock, OSU
DT Tank Taylor, NC St
DE Adam Carriker, Nebraska
CB Fred Bennett, So Carolina

[pup]

Pup keeps telling me that we've got to make a sexy pick if we are in the top 5.

No, no, no. That is not what I have been telling you. What I have been saying is we stink and it would not surprise me to see them hit Fulrs 2 or 3 win projection. If we only win 3 games, we will pick in the top 3, maybe 4.

From there, I have said, and I am not a draft expert, that there are no linemen worthy of being a top 3 pick. You then say to trade down, which is fine with me, as long as they don't take 75 cents for a dollar. If you cannot get what the #3 pick calls for in a trade, then take BPA, Adrian Peterson and go with some interior linemen in rounds 2 and 3 where they will have good value.

Was Julius Peppers a sexy pick when the Panthers took him #2 ? He sure made Tucker look like he should have retired last Sunday afternoon.

I sure as shit thought he was, and if Julius Peppers was available in this year's draft at #2 and we had the pick, I would be all for taking him. But he is not.

About our offensive line. Yes it is bad. It has 5 bad players, who our coaches felt were better than the last 5 bad players they had at those positions. Well, guess what, some of those players are on other NFL teams right now, and playing really well! Jeff Faine for God's sake has looked great. Melvin Fowler is starting for Minnesota, who is running the ball down people's throat, but he stunk here and we couldn't wait to get rid of him.

What that means is, maybe the o-line is coached poorly. Maybe the offensive scheme does not work. It is very hard to block people when they know what is coming. Here is the quote from Panther DT Mike Rucker after the game:

"We knew what that offense was going to do," DT Mike Rucker said. "There were times when from watching film we knew exactly we were going to do and we were beating them to the punch"

Could this be the reason out line stinks so bad?

And Murph, next time you call me out, I will write an article all about you and it will inlcude things like, but not limited to "matches"

[wmurphyhh]

I see the Browns beating the Jets, Texans, and stealing one other one along the way.

I think the GBN mock draft is pretty accurate.

And Murph, next time you call me out, I will write an article all about you and it will inlcude things like, but not limited to "matches"

Wow... had to think about that one for a few minutes. Ouch.

Just trying to get some discussion going.

I'd be really happy if we picked 7th and took a OT.

No Bucks in the top 10...

[pup]

I see the Browns beating the Jets, Texans, and stealing one other one along the way

I think winning those games would be considered stealing as well.

[GreatGoo]

I don't see the browns beating the Jets.

Quinn the 1st pick in the draft?

That guys is so overrated. He has bust written all over him. Actually ND is general is extremely overrated. That haven't covered their spread all season.

[wmurphyhh]

I agree that anything out of South Bend is overated. Wasn't it Rick Mirer that was supposed to be the first 3 time Heismann winner ?

I'm all for Quinn going to Oakland and becoming a bust. He'll fit right in with Gallery.

Is Joe Thomas worthy of the 3rd pick ?

Cleveland has to steal one along the way...

I'd love to see us beat Cincy at home.

[pup]

I'd love to see us beat Houston at home

[Guest]

They'll beat Denver

[furls]

I'd like to see them lose all of them resulting in everyone getting fired and the team starting over again. I am not impressed with the direction of the team. Maybe we'll make better use of a #1 overall this time around. You can kid yourselves all you want, there is not one game on that schedule that they should win. They might win one or two, but that will be a product of what the other team gives, not what the Browns take.

I think they should draft a playmaker, there is not a stud OT out there worthy of a top five pick. Make no bones about it, the Browns suck bad enough to have a good chance at Adrian Peterson.

As for there being no Buckeyes in the top 10, wait until April. Troy Smith will steadily rise up the ladder as the Buckeyes win, A la Vince Young. Should Ted Ginn Jr. run the 4.25 that many are forecasting he will go in the top 10, whether he has the skills or not. He has shown a lot of growth as a route runner this year.

[consigliere]

They'll beat Denver

You are killing me.

[The Score]

I agree that anything out of South Bend is overated. Wasn't it Rick Mirer that was supposed to be the first 3 time Heismann winner ?

Ron Powlus

[swerb]

Adrian Peterson out for the year with a broken collarbone. This, at the least, puts into question whether or not he will leave early now ...

[Guest]

I think he leaves early now for sure

[pup]

He comes back in time for the Oklahoma bowl game, gets the 150 yards he needs to break OU's all-time rushing record, then comes out.

[furls]

He was and is coming out no matter what. He is the #1 back this year, would be stupid to go back to OU for another year of not getting paid to risk a serious injury. A broken collarbone is nothing. Hurts like a sumabitch, but it heals.... unlike an ankle or a knee.

[pup]

Please read sig line. I need a down arrow emoticon!

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[consigliere]

I'm starting to hope for two guys if we pick in the top 5-6: Adrian Peterson and Troy Smith.

Seeing that teams like Tennessee, Houston, Arizona, Green Bay, etc who could challenge to pick ahead of us already have young QBs they have invested in.....I think Smith could be there for the taking if the Browns are picking anywhere from 5-10. I'm unsure of SMith's draft prospects and where he might go, but I assume top 10?

TO me, what he has done so far this year, he reminds a ton of Donovan McNabb. He has become a fixture in the pocket, leads, and only scrambles when he absolutely has to. Has shown a very accurate arm, and has good strength. I know there is question about his height, but I'm telling you, if we are in the top 5-6 picks, Peterson is gone....I want TROY! Screw Frye.

Keep in mind, this goes with the assumption there is not a sure fire left tackle to take at the top of the draft.

[Guest]

It doesn't matter who the QB is, there is nobody to protect him.
Charlie Frye is the least of the Browns problems.

[furls]

I am inclined to agree with you about Frye being the least of the Brown's problems, but I don't think he is an "elite" quarterback. I would love to see Troy Smith play in Cleveland, but I think the Browns are sold enough on Frye to keep him as the starter.

In the top five, I think you have to take either a Boselli-esque LT (there aren't any) or a game breaker of some sort. We seem to be OK at game breaker for now at the WR/TE spot, hell, if we draft another than we run the risk of turning into the Lions. I like Droughn's but I do not think that he will be a "game breaker" I would love to see the Browns get a guy like Peterson.

[yargs7]

I was in the same shoes as you Browns fans for about 15 years while rooting for the team formerly known as the Bungles. I know your pain. I know the frustration. David Klingler, Ki-Jana Carter, Dan Wilkinson, and Akili Smith sound familiar? Just like Couch, Green, Brown, and Warren, those guys were thrust into a pile of shit.

You cannot, cannot, cannot draft another QB or RB. Yes, Carson Palmer was our #1 pick in 03. However, make no mistake about it, this team had a very good offensive line in place for 2 years before Palmer took over, and they had a servicable veteran QB to take the lumps until Carson AND the offensive line were ready.

Palmer was a no brainer at the time, but the foundation was laid years prior with Williie Anderson, Levi Jones, and the addition of free agents like Bobbie Williams and Rich Braham.

Quinn, Smith, and Peterson are attractive picks, but the Browns need to get an offensive line together or they will all end up failing badly.

A great coach doesn't hurt either.

[wmurphyhh]

The first offensive play of the year sums up the entire season...

A 75 yard TD to Edwards called back on a holding penalty. You would think this offense would have so much potential. We've got playmakers in Edwards and Winslow. A 1000 yard back in Droughns and JJ was supposed to be sure handed veteran. Frye is young and mobile.

Yet, our best offensive weapons are Cribbs returning kicks and the defense getting turnovers late in the game. Hell, we'd be 0-6 if it wasn't for a converted QB from Kent State.

The O-Line is in shambles. After running out of stories during the bye week (hence Grossi's Tressel's article), I think the papers were playing up the fact that LeChuck won't be ready. I hope it isn't true. Shaffer needs to move to RT next season. We need two new guards and a LT. Why would Steinbach want to come here ? Hopefully he's more concerned with $$$ than he is with winning.

I understand that someone like Peterson may be too good to pass up. If so, then the 2nd round pick has to be an O lineman.

[furls]

I understand that someone like Peterson may be too good to pass up. If so, then the 2nd round pick has to be an O lineman.

Well stated, and I will go one further. The Browns should take a sure fire playmaker with #1 if they can, whether it is a QB or RB, unless a super tackle emerges. Otherwise, they need to use 2nd and 3rd round picks on the O-line.

Look at what a difference Ferguson and Mangold have made in NY. THey have started every game for a revitalized jets team.

[pup]

I have seen several publications of late list Joe Thomas, the LT from Wisconsin as a top 5 pick. If so that changes my opinion of no linemen being worthy of that pick, and in turn changes to a must pick...even at #1 overall.

[furls]

I am not sure if he is there because he warrants it or if he is just the best tackle available. I have not watched enough of the Badgers to have an opinion, but if you are going to take a tackle in the top 5 he had better be the 2nd coming of Tony Boselli.

[pup]

Even with the state of Brown football? It seems to me that everything turned around for the Bengals when everyone laughed at them for taking Levi Jones at #10 when they could have traded down and taken him around 22.

[wmurphyhh]

The Steelers have drafted all nine of their offensive linemen. The Bengals have drafted six of theirs. The Ravens? Six also. The Browns have drafted one. Isaac Sowells.

That about sums it.

Glad to see Pup is coming around.

[pup]

Matches

[wmurphyhh]

You know, Peterson could look at the chance of becoming a Browns draft pick and decide to stay another year in school. Kind of like Ferguson and the Jets. I believe Edwards would not be here if Ferguson had come out early. And Tucker would probably be retired if Ferguson and Shaffer (at RT) were on the roster.

[Big Lu]

Well, if we do get to pick Adrian Peterson, he should get Archie Manning as his agent and demand to be traded to a "contender" team right after the selection! I can't imagine any extremely talented player wanting to play here.

The Browns really do suck! I no longer look forward to watching them.

So far we have shown nothing since our "rebirth."

[mark]

Melvin Fowler is starting for Minnesota, who is running the ball down people's throat, but he stunk here and we couldn't wait to get rid of him.

Actually---Fowler starts in Buffalo.


Both Faine and Fowler are decent centers---and are remarkably better than what we have now at the spot. That said---keep in mind Fowler was traded for a young tackle, so it wasn't like we just gave up on an offensive linemen. As for Faine---he was traded right after we acquired one of the best centers in the league. The traded allowed us to draft a linebacker that starts as a rookie.

[SOBO]

Currently we sit in the 5 hole.


The PRIMO position for the Cleveland Browns, if they were to stay this bad the rest of the season, is to be in the 4th slot.

Why the 4th slot?

There are 4 truly elite talents in this draft (once two of them undoubtedly declare) and each of those 4 can help the Browns immediately.

Those four being, in no particular order:

Brady Quinn QB ND
Calvin Johnson WR GaTech
Joe Thomas OT Wiscy
Adrian Peterson RB OK

After that point, there is a dropoff and talent. And when you sit at no.5 you're the first team to most likely suffer from that dropoff.

Now not only can each of those four help us, but being in the fourth slot also allows this team to not spend quite as much on another elite talent. Just sit there and let whichever fall to you, and gladly snatch them up.


So if you're counting, then the top four for THIS team in order would be....


1. Joe Thomas - a truly elite LT prospect and one of the most dominating players in the country. Problem is that if Arizona keeps playing as bad as they are, he'll never get to us.

2. Adrian Peterson - injuries or not, you can't pass on a talent like this if he's on the board. Futhermore, none of his injuries to date are nagging. All three injuries were of a different variety and will be healed fully going into his college career.

3. Brady Quinn - Whether you like it or not, Quinn is an elite QB prospect and likely the no.1 overall pick. If a team like Detroit or Oakland passes on him; he's certainly in play for us. Maybe we can luck out and have a San Diego type situation arise.

4. Calvin Johnson - Cries of "Oh God we're Detroit" probably have already started, but let's face it...Johnson is THE most talented prospect in this draft and you can never have too many weapons. ESPECIALLY when we you don't even have a true no.2 receiver (or even no.1 depending on whose opinion you value)


After that, there is a slight dropoff, but here are the most likely candidates...

Alan Branch - "Well he didn't play that well against OSU". Blah blah blah. Branch actually did play solidly that game and is clearly the most talented defensive tackle in this draft. One of the few who could really flourish in our system.

Sam Baker - Baker has worked his way into top 10 contention with a dominant senior year. He's not the physical talent that Joe Thomas is at LT, but he's technically sound, athletic, and rock on the blindside.

Darrelle Revis - Leon Hall was once considered the top corner prospect in the draft, but he was exploited against OSU's speedy receivers. Revis on the other hand is every bit as talented, but maybe a better all around prospect as compared to Hall.

Teddy Ginn - Would be the perfect situation for Ginn to enter into....he wouldn't be asked to be the no.1 guy, he could help the return game (Northcutt is a FA at the end of the year), he has the local ties that everyone seems to like, and would definately add some speed this team currently lacks.

Marshawn Lynch - Not the bruiser Adrian Peterson is, but Lynch is an all around back who would give us that versatility and home run threat we currently lack with Reuben Droughns.

[furls]

If the Browns take Calvin Johnson or Adrian Peterson (not to mention Ginn or Lynch), I will personally take care of Savage. We need another position player like we need another hole in our offensive or defensive line.

If we cannot get good value at OT or DT/DE then they should trade down, PERIOD and draft some depth and I would put Alan Branch into that first tier of prospects especially for the Browns because he has the size and strength to play NT in a 3-4.

[swerb]

I too will be on the anti-skill position player jihad, regardless of the circumstance.

To me, Branch seems like one of those guys like Richard Seymour that could play inside or outside up front in the 3-4.

The only thing that would terrify me about taking Branch would be Pitcock going 5 picks later and ending up being a better pro.

[SOBO]

If the Browns take Calvin Johnson or Adrian Peterson (not to mention Ginn or Lynch), I will personally take care of Savage.

Why?

Outside of Joe Thomas, who do you take top 10? Sam Baker has a shot, but really struggled this weekend.

All you have to do is look at past drafts to see that high caliber staring lineman (especially on the offensive side) can be found every year in the 2nd and third rounds.

Why pass on an elite talent when you KNOW that those players can be there a round or two later to fill your biggest needs? It's not like we're set any of the skill positions either (we need a no.2 receiver, an upgrade at RB, and a corner).

The only thing that would terrify me about taking Branch would be Pitcock going 5 picks later and ending up being a better pro.

Right now Branch is really the only legit first round 34 Dline prospect in this draft. Pitcock is a very nice player, but I don't really think he fits into our scheme of things. Plus he would be better had in the late first/early second range. The one Buckeye who I would LOVE to nab who I do feel fits into our possible plans is David Patterson in the mid rounds.

[furls]

All you have to do is look at past drafts to see that high caliber staring lineman (especially on the offensive side) can be found every year in the 2nd and third rounds.

All I have to do is look at how the Cleveland Browns have neglected the lines in the first day of the draft and then look at the current gaping holes on their roster currently.

Outside of Joe Thomas, who do you take top 10? Sam Baker has a shot, but really struggled this weekend.

Alan Branch, possibly Jake Long.

Why pass on an elite talent when you KNOW that those players can be there a round or two later to fill your biggest needs? It's not like we're set any of the skill positions either (we need a no.2 receiver, an upgrade at RB, and a corner).

Because if you dont upgrade that line, You could have Barry Sanders and Jerry Rice and it still would not matter and this team has "waited a round or two later" too many times in the past in the interest of getting that "elite talent."

There really are not any Buckeyes in this year's draft that fill any hole in the Browns. There is of course always next year, when the Browns will need the services of Alex Boone and will probably be in position to draft him (in the top 5 or so picks) after another horrific year on the offensive line, but thank god Charlie Frye will be getting sacked while trying to throw the ball to Calvin Johnson instead of Dennis Northcutt.

[SOBO]

All I have to do is look at how the Cleveland Browns have neglected the lines in the first day of the draft and then look at the current gaping holes on their roster currently.

One thing we know Phil will do, and has done at this point, is aggressively attack whatever position he feels is the top need entering the offseason. Two years ago it was guard, and we immediately signed Coleman and Adruzzi. This past year it was LT and ILB, enter Shaffer and both DQ/Leon.

Just because Phil has yet to address the situation all that heavily in the draft YET, doesn't mean I don't think he ever will.

Alan Branch, possibly Jake Long.

Branch I agree, and he's likely the top target at this point. But Long is NOT a top ten talent. He doesn't have the feet to play the blindside at the next level, and he's not quite as talented as the likes of Jammal Brown or Shawn Andrews who were mid rounders when they came out as RT's.

Because if you dont upgrade that line, You could have Barry Sanders and Jerry Rice and it still would not matter and this team has "waited a round or two later" too many times in the past in the interest of getting that "elite talent."

In the past five years here are some of the linemen who went in the 2nd and 3rd rounds respectively...

2006
Duece Lutui
Darryn Colledge
Marcus McNeill
Andrew Whitworth
Charles Spencer
Paul McQuistan
Jason Spitz

2005
David Baas
Michael Roos
Marcus Johnson
Khalif Barnes
Evan Mathis
Richie Incognito
Nick Kaczur

2004
Chris Snee
Jake Grove
Justin Smiley
Nick Hardwick
Max Starks
Sean Locklear
Travelle Wharton

2003
EricSteinbach
Jon Stinchcomb
Al Johnson
Vince Manuwai
Seth Wand
Wade Smith
Courtney VanBuren
Derrick Dockery

2002
Andre Guorode
Toniu Fonoti
Mike Pearson
LeCharles Bentley
Chester Pitts
Langston Walker
Fred Weary
Melvin Fowler
Seth McKinney


Every single one of those guys got starting experience in their rookie year. Many of them have gone on to become very good permanent starters for their respective teams. And I don't know about you, but there are some really damn fine linemen on that list.

So I see no reason whatsoever to pass on one of those elite talents just because we all want Oline help specifically.

There really are not any Buckeyes in this year's draft that fill any hole in the Browns. There is of course always next year, when the Browns will need the services of Alex Boone and will probably be in position to draft him

Now there is a really indicator of who would should draft....."Any Buckeyes available? No, I guess we'll see what else is out there."

As for Boone, he's damn good; but I'd rather have Jared Gaither or Michael Oher in next year's draft if all three were to declare.

[wmurphyhh]

Well stated, and I will go one further. The Browns should take a sure fire playmaker with #1 if they can, whether it is a QB or RB, unless a super tackle emerges. Otherwise, they need to use 2nd and 3rd round picks on the O-line.

Look at what a difference Ferguson and Mangold have made in NY. THey have started every game for a revitalized jets team.

Looks like we got both a stud QB and a solid tackle. We should be OK if Brady's chick doesn't kick the crap out of him for dropping so low and JT didn't fall out the boat on Lake Michigan.

Three solid picks...what great day. Even Romeo should be able to do something with this group.

Here's to giving Jerry Jones a pick the 20s next season!