Text Size

Cleveland Browns & The NFL

Cleveland mentality

Talk Browns football and discuss the NFL here.

Moderators: peeker643, jb, swerb, pup

Cleveland mentality

Unread postby yogi » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:44 am

What is it with fans? Especially Cleveland fans. Bold and underline Browns fans!

Why is it that there HAS to be a scapegoat and that ONE person seems to be the reason the Browns fail?

Its been little used safeties and cornerbacks in the past, a bumbling OL doofus. Remember that Lomas Brown and Roman Oben were major causes for our suckiness a few years ago. Of course Ellsworth and then last year a major cause for the 10 losses was Ray Mickens (note: sarcasm).

Now, everyone is jumping on the Mo Carthon lynching. I expect the idiots in the cooler to have the mob mentality but I have to admit I'm disappointed when even the head of this site puts Mo as the major problem with our beloved team.

Is the problem really the play calling?

How about a little thing called execution?

Reminds me of that great quote from the late Bucs coach, John McKay.

when he was asked about the Teams execution, his response was "I'm all in favor of it!"
User avatar
yogi
Jersey Accent
 
Posts: 2025
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:00 pm
Location: NJ

Unread postby consigliere » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:23 am

Carthon is not the sole problem, but IMO he is the biggest problem. It is not like this lynching is being called after one game.....people were all over him last year as well.

How can it NOT be playcalling when you pull out your freaking 1200 yard back on 3-1 two times....and run TOSS SWEEPS TWICE to a rookie fullback. Purely assinine, and the blame falls on the OC there.

There are others at fault for yesterday's debacle, in fact a lot (Frye, O-line play, RAC, Edwards, the run defense, etc).......but the playcalling was atrocious.

The ONLY positive that came out of that game is Winslow is a stud. No question. And, he might be the ONLY guy with attitude on this team (we need more of that).
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Unread postby yogi » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:58 am

The calls always stink if they don't work.

But he's a smart f-ing genious if they do.

I didn't see the game until about 5 minutes left in the 3rd qtr.

How was the execution on that 3 & 1 play? Did the Saints know that play was coming? Or was there missed blocks?

How about the defense making a play on 3rd down once and a while and getting the O back on the field.

Heck, I can't see blaming the play calling when they're playing like crap.

(hey, we can't block worth a lick, but let's try fooling them!)

Sorry, I'm not looking for scapegoats 1 game into the season.
User avatar
yogi
Jersey Accent
 
Posts: 2025
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:00 pm
Location: NJ

Unread postby pup » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:19 am

What is it with fans? Especially Cleveland fans. Bold and underline Browns fans!



Maybe it is we are sick of seeing the same things over and over again, resulting in the same results (bad ones)

Why is it that there HAS to be a scapegoat and that ONE person seems to be the reason the Browns fail


I didn't take it as Carthon was the ONE person to blame. As a matter of fact, I think Rich said RAC should be more responsible than Carthon, and he also called out the play of the players.

How about a little thing called execution?


Isn't the job of offensive coordinator responsible for the execution of the offensive players?

The calls always stink if they don't work.


Especially when the don't work TWICE in a row.

How was the execution on that 3 & 1 play? Did the Saints know that play was coming? Or was there missed blocks?


On the first one, Vickers had a hole he could of cut into and made the yard, probably. Terrell Smith almost punched him in the face when he say he never cut it up behind him. He just let them string him along to the sideline. To me it was even more reason to NOT call the same play on the next series.

How about the defense making a play on 3rd down once and a while and getting the O back on the field


Backs against the wall all day, they still limited the Saints to 19 points and only 1 TD. I don't think today is the day to question the play of the only decent unit on the roster.

Sorry, I'm not looking for scapegoats 1 game into the season


I wasn't looking for them. They pretty much stood over there and waved their arms calling attention to themselves. Unforutnately, it appears that they are on Gilligan's Island and their is no rescue planes in sight.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Unread postby consigliere » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:24 am

On short yardage, 3rd and 1 nonetheless, you DON'T run a toss sweep with a FULLBACK. That is assinine.

Not to mention you take your best RB out of the game, a guy who plowed his way to 1200 yards last year and is a tough runner himself. Assinine playcalling and personnel decisions. Period.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Unread postby yogi » Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:01 pm

Maybe it is we are sick of seeing the same things over and over again, resulting in the same results (bad ones)


that's a reason for picking a scapegoat? There's many many reasons why the Browns lost yesterday and Mo was one of about 50 people responsible.

I didn't take it as Carthon was the ONE person to blame. As a matter of fact, I think Rich said RAC should be more responsible than Carthon, and he also called out the play of the players.


But I took it as Mo should be the ONE person to lose his job over it. People want heads and his name is unargueably the first name brought up.

Isn't the job of offensive coordinator responsible for the execution of the offensive players?


Really? Mo is responsible when guys don't hold blocks, fumble, throw stupid interceptions, hold the ball too long, move on the wrong snap counts and other penalties?

Tough job.

Especially when the don't work TWICE in a row.


I didn't see almost the first 3 quarters of the game and I'm not saying that MO doesn't share in the blame. Sounds like there were better options. But we are asking for 1 yard here right? This wasn't the call on 3rd and long. Is asking the O to get 1 yard on a running play too much to ask?


On the first one, Vickers had a hole he could of cut into and made the yard, probably. Terrell Smith almost punched him in the face when he say he never cut it up behind him. He just let them string him along to the sideline. To me it was even more reason to NOT call the same play on the next series.


So, it sounds like if it should've worked.

Backs against the wall all day, they still limited the Saints to 19 points and only 1 TD. I don't think today is the day to question the play of the only decent unit on the roster.


Here, I gotta call Bullsh*t.

Its not a question of "who stinketh the worst", the D didn't play all too well either. They get NO credit in my book because they didn't play as bad as the O.

I wasn't looking for them. They pretty much stood over there and waved their arms calling attention to themselves. Unforutnately, it appears that they are on Gilligan's Island and their is no rescue planes in sight.


I agree. There were plenty of "goats" wearing seal brown and orange. My original topic was Carthon was IMO being wrongfully labled as the Browns biggest problem. And Brown fans needing to have their scapegoat.
User avatar
yogi
Jersey Accent
 
Posts: 2025
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:00 pm
Location: NJ

Unread postby consigliere » Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:34 pm

I didn't see almost the first 3 quarters of the game and I'm not saying that MO doesn't share in the blame. Sounds like there were better options. But we are asking for 1 yard here right? This wasn't the call on 3rd and long. Is asking the O to get 1 yard on a running play too much to ask?


It would be different if the play was called to run between the tackles....if that would have been the case, the line is clearly at fault there for not getting a year. But, stringing out a play where you have your FULLBACK run 15 yards to get 1 yard? That is stupid. And, a horrendous call. TWICE.

There are lots of goats from yesterday's game.....but one of the biggest goats from last season ireturning s Carthon, and rightly so after a shitty offensive performance he should be on the hotseat.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Unread postby yogi » Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:52 pm

It would be different if the play was called to run between the tackles....if that would have been the case, the line is clearly at fault there for not getting a year. But, stringing out a play where you have your FULLBACK run 15 yards to get 1 yard? That is stupid. And, a horrendous call. TWICE.


What type of D package was on the field for that 3rd and 1?

Is it possible that Mo & Crennel felt they had the right personnel and the right package in ther not only to get the 1 yard but possibly rip off a big gain reminiscent of the Riggins long TD run in the Superbowl many years back?

Does that play go for 1 yard if the OL executes? or if Vickers picks the right hole as he has in practice many times. (that last bitt is because I just read RACs answer to a question about the same play. Sounds like they really liked this play and the players did not execute it in the game as they had at practice all week.)
User avatar
yogi
Jersey Accent
 
Posts: 2025
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:00 pm
Location: NJ

Unread postby pup » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:19 pm

Really? Mo is responsible when guys don't hold blocks, fumble, throw stupid interceptions, hold the ball too long, move on the wrong snap counts and other penalties?

Tough job.


Maybe you don't agree with this mentality, but it is more likely to make one change, then 20. If your thinking is correct, then Phil Savage should be on the hotseat because he has a bunch of really bad players on offense.

SOMEBODY needs to pointed at. I cannot believe that are players are not capable of beating the New Orleans Saints at home. Since it is obvious we can't, what should we do? Blow the whole thing up? Continue to be patient and hope this was an aberation? Or wake up in the AM and go nuts on the person that seems to be at the center of it all?

They were the worst offense in football in '05 and they do not appear to be on there way to being any better in '06. Yes it is one game, but to not expect some sort of reaction, even if you consider it an overreaction, is a little silly. How would you wrap up yesterday's performance?

About the defense. Would I rather they forced some 3 and outs? Sure. I also am very big on the only defensive stat that really matters is points allowed. Anything under 20 should give your team a shot to win. Where they great? No. Am I anywhere near as concerned with their performance as the offenses? NO.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Unread postby yogi » Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:17 am

Continue to be patient and hope this was an aberation?


That's my thinking for now.

Heck, I've got to believe the OL will get better with more time together.

I've got to belive that if Frye gets more time from better blocking and more experience that he'll be a better QB.

I also think the D is better than they played and we'll see an improved performance this week.

IMO, this regime has the entire season to show they've improved.

Savage is NOT on the hot seat, and unless we move backwards neither is RAC. I agree that Mo needs to show improvement or he should be replaced. But that evaluation should occur at the season's mid-way point and season's end. NOT after 1 game. And yes I understand he had last year but when the powers that be didn't replace him in the offseason, they gave him another year.
User avatar
yogi
Jersey Accent
 
Posts: 2025
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:00 pm
Location: NJ

Unread postby pup » Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:55 am

OK. I am down with that. I will not post anything about how inept Carthon is at calling offensvie plays until at least week 9 :lol: :lol:

The reason I put Carthon on the hot seat is because if you gave me the choice between these three people (Carthon, RAC, Savage), he would be the one I would consider the highest risk of panning out. I never meant to imply that the other 2 are actually on that same seat.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Unread postby consigliere » Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:47 pm

yogi wrote:I also think the D is better than they played and we'll see an improved performance this week.

IMO, this regime has the entire season to show they've improved.

Savage is NOT on the hot seat, and unless we move backwards neither is RAC.....


What happens if we lose to the Bengals and Ravens the next two weeks and start 0-3? We'll likely be touchdown or more underdogs in both.

We very well could be 0-3 going into that Raiders game....and to me, the defining moment for this team and front office could come from a W or L in that game. If by chance we are 0-3, and then LOSE to Oakland (one of the worst teams in the league)....the shit officially has hit the fan.

This is why that Saints game was so important. While anything can happen, the Bengals and Ravens should be big favorites against us.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Unread postby yogi » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:56 am

What happens if we lose to the Bengals and Ravens the next two weeks and start 0-3? We'll likely be touchdown or more underdogs in both.


Entirely possible if not likely.

We all felt we lost a game we should have won (on paper)

Now we'll need to win a game we figured to lose (again on paper)

Wouldn't surprise me at all if we win one of the next 2 games and go into the Oakland game at 1-2.

If by chance we are 0-3, and then LOSE to Oakland (one of the worst teams in the league)....the shit officially has hit the fan.


We've played 1 game and now you've got us at 0-4.

Get Off the Ledge!

This team come January will have shown improvement over last year's team.

They laid an egg on Sunday and will have to come up with an inspiring performance this week. I think they will.

The questions is, will it be enough?
User avatar
yogi
Jersey Accent
 
Posts: 2025
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:00 pm
Location: NJ


Return to Cleveland Browns & The NFL

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot], ybot and 2 guests

Who is online

In total there are 4 users online :: 2 registered, 0 hidden and 2 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 181 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot], ybot and 2 guests