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Anybody want to talk about trading Andrson now

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Re: Anybody want to talk about trading Andrson now

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:33 pm

JB wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:Its his team fellas .

The players are playing for him .

He is the man .

We've won three in a row and we're 5-2 when he's at the helm .

The podium is now open for the fuckin fool who wants to make the case to deal this kid for picks and beers.




SoulDawg




Yes. Phil will do a Shaub. He'll engineer a sign n trade or you just take your # 1 after you tender him as a RFA.

His value will be sky - high. We finally have the karma on our side.

I think they'll get that 1st round pick toshore up the D.

Quinn is the future of the franchise, SD. Phil bet the pharm on him.

I ain't in luv w/ him or pimpin' him. I'm just breakin' down reality 4 U. I don't do much of the "I think" thing, I try to read the Browns and what Phil will do. Holla all you want. I'm just telling you the sun rises from the east homie. Phil is a balance guy. He has few draft resources and the D is a mess. He'll use the resources at his disposal and from what I see he believes in BQ. He told you the goal for the season in week two. Unlike us fans, Phil doesn't swing back & frth w/ the fotunes week by week.



SD:

Get back to me after we finish this run against the inbred and BMore.

We'll either be 5-5 ,6-5 ,or 7-5 .

Three fourths of the way down the season within sniffin distance of a playoff seat .

All because of the play of one man .

Derek Anderson .

Now we both Know Phil doesn't know shit about QB's but not even he can be so stoopid as to want to trade a man who is having a Kurt Warner Tom Brady type season while effectively turning a moribond franchise
and its fan base on its collective ear.

Phil got lucky when he did the unprecedented move of Trading Frye after starting the opener, and the Karma Gods have smiled on him ever since he and RAC resisted the temptation to go immediately to the rookie and play the next best experienced QB on the roster.

That move has trumped all the moves he's made collectively the last three years and it was accomplished by accident not design.

Butt now Your fuckin with Ju Ju way above your pay grade JB ,
I'm disapointed in ya , because I expected that you most of all would understand something the nintendo set around here just can't comprehend .

You don't get rid of your playmakers , Derek Anderson is the fitst playmaker we've had on this roster since Jamiirr Miller and he's enroute to the Pro Bowl .

Brady Quinn is Aaron Rogers playing second fiddle to Farve right now .

Come to grips with reality not fantasy , the former plans for Quinn are like the plans every heavyweight contender with delusions of granduer had before they faced Mike Tyson in the ring .

Mike canceled all that shit with the first where did that sledge hammer shot upside the head come from .

Dude get with the progarm .

Brady Quinn was the future , butt that plan went out the window
and your now talking in past tense.

Anderson is operating as the 4th best QB in the league behind Brady Manning and Farve and has better stats than everybody butt Tom Brady .

You don't deal him upon pain of death , or unless somebody offers two number ones and half of Texas and even then you turn them down unless Anderson wants to go because the honeymoon is over.

This team plays for the kid , any stoopid trade talk or deals like you think is all that and bag of chips will lead to mutiny on the bounty and a return to suck , because you spit in Karmas face and lost her good grace .

Man step the fuck off that high horse put down your Madden game grab a hand full of Earth and smell some reality , you sound like an Andy Reid junkie playing kid videos tooling in your Escalade and dreaming about getting yours .

Brady Quinn is irrelevant .
{{{{get this , he's now the trade bait "if " anybody goes which aint likely }}}}

We got Ben Toothlessburger , kurt Warner Tom Brady and or True Breeze
acting out his life here in Cleveland in the guise of Derek Anderson , and neophytes like yourself and Pup want to trade em for food stamps and beers , when we could lock him up long term and have options on both Anderson and Quinn.

Un Fucking believable .

Tell me your still high on peyote two days after that big Win and maybe I'll forgive ya .


Maybe , not likely , butt maybe


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Unread postby pup » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:52 pm

SD, did you not get hugged enough as a soulpuppy or something?

Three fourths of the way down the season within sniffin distance of a playoff seat .

All because of the play of one man .

Derek Anderson .


Are you for real with this? If you think DA leads this team without the offensive line and receviers playing as good as any units in the business, then put the pipe down for a week and watch the games.

Now we both Know Phil doesn't know shit about QB's


Remind me why DA is in Cleveland again. That is right, because after Phil drafted him in B-More, he stole him from them and brough him. I don't think it is Phil who don't know shit about QB's, I think it is SoulDawg.

Phil got lucky when he did the unprecedented move of Trading Frye after starting the opener, and the Karma Gods have smiled on him ever since he and RAC resisted the temptation to go immediately to the rookie and play the next best experienced QB on the roster.

That move has trumped all the moves he's made collectively the last three years and it was accomplished by accident not design.


From what I understand, DA was Phil's choice entering the season, but the guy played terrible in preseason, so they went with Frye. Once Frye fully imploded the organization decided that if the QB is going to suck, it might as well be the one with an arm. Then DA started playing like this and the rest is history.

You don't get rid of your playmakers , Derek Anderson is the fitst playmaker we've had on this roster since Jamiirr Miller and he's enroute to the Pro Bowl .


Along with a few buddies from this offense. But it is all DA, I know. Save it.

This team plays for the kid , any stoopid trade talk or deals like you think is all that and bag of chips will lead to mutiny on the bounty and a return to suck , because you spit in Karmas face and lost her good grace .


We need to come back from reality, yet you credit the Browns record as an act of Karma by giving the guy you like better a chance? Karma don't win football games, or the Aint's would have won the Bowl last year. Executing wins football games. DA is simply executing, but there is no reason to believe Quinn could not/would not execute just as well.

We got Ben Toothlessburger , kurt Warner Tom Brady and or True Breeze
acting out his life here in Cleveland in the guise of Derek Anderson , and neophytes like yourself and Pup want to trade em for food stamps and beers


Actually, we are willing to accept one of them being traded for, gasp, some defensive help. You keep trying to outscore everyone.
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Unread postby Birdieman » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:50 pm

If you're not willing to consider the possibility of trading DA or the idea of giving BQ a look, then IMO you're choosing to take a short-sighted view of the situation. At the present moment we have an excess of resources at the QB position--the idea of keeping both of these guys is silly, I'm living in the early 90s talk. In a few months, Phil is going to be forced to decide between taking advantage of that excess (an opportunity that expires after this offseason) and taking his time to decide which QB is the right man for the job. The latter of those two is an awful waste, especially when you consider our needs on the defensive side of the ball, and it doesn't have to happen.

I'm still with ya on this HooDoo. It just keeps getting better as DA's value goes up.

We were all so excited after we nailed JT/BQ/Wright on draft day, even after we gave up a small farm to do it. Now we can get said small farm right back and still have all 3 guys.

What would any of us have done if after the PIT game somebody would've offered us a 1st and 6th rounder for both Frye and DA? Sheet man, we'da crapped ourselves. And that's what this year's always been about, getting ready for 2008 when BQ could take over and Phil'd have one more offseason to build this defense.

Now it's happening and everybody's missing the boat. We can get well in one offseason because we fell in a honey-hole and most of you are missing it. Phil may even trade DA for more than we paid to get Quinn. And you wanna let it slip by.

Why? Because we have a QB who completes 57% of his passes, is rated 9th in the league in passing, and has one of the highest INT % in the league. Has it been that long since we've seen quality QB play that we think it can't be matched? Apparently. And on a team with a great OL, great receivers, and a great scheme to boot.

Sorry, but this team has to many holes to turn down a potential windfall like this. Phil can get us well right now.

Pay no attention to the short-sighters Phil. Stick to the plan. Work it baby. Get us Michael Turner, trade DA for a 1st rounder and we're back in bidness.

If nothing else, the fact that you're in agreement with SD74 on a QB issue should cause you to take a step back and reconsider what's in play

Truer words...
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Unread postby pod2dawg » Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:06 pm

Peeker643 wrote:This team is in an enviable position defensively. That's right. I said 'enviable'.
That being, any improvement whatsoever on the front seven makes your entire defense exponentially better. And they can find that help through free agency and with the draft picks they have. They'll not likely completely remake the front seven in one offseason, but they'll improve it next year simply because there is no way humanly possible it can be worse.


I would have used "putrid" rather than "enviable" otherwise ,......yes.
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Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:52 pm

Pup wrote:SD, did you not get hugged enough as a soulpuppy or something?

Three fourths of the way down the season within sniffin distance of a playoff seat .

All because of the play of one man .

Derek Anderson .


Are you for real with this? If you think DA leads this team without the offensive line and receviers playing as good as any units in the business, then put the pipe down for a week and watch the games.

Now we both Know Phil doesn't know shit about QB's


Remind me why DA is in Cleveland again. That is right, because after Phil drafted him in B-More, he stole him from them and brough him. I don't think it is Phil who don't know shit about QB's, I think it is SoulDawg.

Phil got lucky when he did the unprecedented move of Trading Frye after starting the opener, and the Karma Gods have smiled on him ever since he and RAC resisted the temptation to go immediately to the rookie and play the next best experienced QB on the roster.

That move has trumped all the moves he's made collectively the last three years and it was accomplished by accident not design.


From what I understand, DA was Phil's choice entering the season, but the guy played terrible in preseason, so they went with Frye. Once Frye fully imploded the organization decided that if the QB is going to suck, it might as well be the one with an arm. Then DA started playing like this and the rest is history.

You don't get rid of your playmakers , Derek Anderson is the fitst playmaker we've had on this roster since Jamiirr Miller and he's enroute to the Pro Bowl .


Along with a few buddies from this offense. But it is all DA, I know. Save it.

This team plays for the kid , any stoopid trade talk or deals like you think is all that and bag of chips will lead to mutiny on the bounty and a return to suck , because you spit in Karmas face and lost her good grace .


We need to come back from reality, yet you credit the Browns record as an act of Karma by giving the guy you like better a chance? Karma don't win football games, or the Aint's would have won the Bowl last year. Executing wins football games. DA is simply executing, but there is no reason to believe Quinn could not/would not execute just as well.

We got Ben Toothlessburger , kurt Warner Tom Brady and or True Breeze
acting out his life here in Cleveland in the guise of Derek Anderson , and neophytes like yourself and Pup want to trade em for food stamps and beers


Actually, we are willing to accept one of them being traded for, gasp, some defensive help. You keep trying to outscore everyone.


SD:

When you and JB get done playin with yourself err a your nintendo sets

The real world will still be here waitin for ya ta join.

Repeat for the illiterate the ill conceived or the just plain too fuckin stoopid to tie your shoes butt think their slick set .

You don't trade your playmakers

Don't even think about it .



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Unread postby bostondog » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:05 pm

Wow! Why would you consider trading or benching Anderson when he's playing this well? You don't tinker with a team that went from the outhouse to outside playoff contenders by switching QBs midstream.

Additionally, Anderson has a ton of upside. He's young, throws darts, looks to be improving every week, and appears to have all the physical tools necessary to succeed at this level. Now the Quinn adherents make those same arguments for their man, but the key difference is that DA IS succeeding at the NFL level. Make all the Scott Mitchell arguments for DA that you want, but at the moment, leading this team to a 5-2 record is a tremendous feat and places him light years ahead of a guy who has yet to play one down in a real NFL game.

As for the Anderson has a great line and receivers argument, it seems rather pointless. Even Brady and Manning need lines that can block and receivers that can catch, but that doesn't detract from their skills as QBs. What next? Arguments about whether Rice made Montana or Montana made Rice.

Bottom line: Anderson is getting the job done. If he keeps playing this way, you keep riding him even if that means you're riding Quinn out of town.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:50 pm

For the cheap seats...one final time...then I am done with you.


NOBODY is saying DA has not been very good. NOBODY is saying DA is not a quality NFL QB.

What we are saying is this: You are not winning shit with this defense. I don't care how good your playmaker is. It doesn't work that way. Never has. Never will.

If the best/fastest way to fix the sive is to trade a QB in April...TRADE THE FUCKING QUARTERBACK. If you get as much for Quinn as you do for DA, then by all means, trade Quinn.

If DA is the one to get moved, IT WILL NOT BE THE END OF CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL. Brady Quinn can and will be a very good QB in the NFL. This is not rocket science, though SD is obviously struggling to wrap his head around anything outside of me playing Nintendo and playing fantasy. In the 2007 NFL, middle of the road NFL teams do not have the luxury of carrying 2 good quarterbacks. It makes no sense. If you can use either one to make the rest of the team on par with the rest of the NFL, do it.

IMO, DA would be worth more to other teams. He will have had a proven year as a starter. They can sign him to the contract they want, not what we gave him.

Anyway you look at, both will not be Cleveland Browns in 2008. As mad as that makes you, you might want to get used to the feeling.

And SoulDawg, this should make you happy. Maybe we can bring back your last pet project, Mr. Kelly Holcomb,to compete with with Dorsey as the #2.
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Unread postby bostondog » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:33 am

If the best/fastest way to fix the sive is to trade a QB in April...TRADE THE FUCKING QUARTERBACK. If you get as much for Quinn as you do for DA, then by all means, trade Quinn.


That's a mighty big IF.

First, the draft is only a lottery ticket. Just like nobody knows if Brady Quinn will be a player in this league, nobody knows if your draft pick is going to be a difference maker. Right now, we have what appears to be a difference maker in Anderson.

Second, what do you think you can realistically get for either QB? If we're worried that Anderson might be Scott Mitchell, what do you think other GMs around the league are wondering? And Brady Quinn, who was so "highly" thought of that he was in free fall on draft day, has yet to prove anything. Additionally, even established stars rarely garner more than a 2nd rounder (note the Marshall Faulk trade to St. Louis and he was the best back in football at the time).

There just aren't that many Herchel Walker/Ricky Williams blockbuster deals to be made out there. So I really have to question the idea that a trade is going to deliver tons of defensive firepower in return.

If DA is the one to get moved, IT WILL NOT BE THE END OF CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL.


But if he keeps leading the team like this, it'd be a very bad move.

Brady Quinn can and will be a very good QB in the NFL.


Unknowable until he actually starts playing. I'll grant that he looked good in the preseason against the 3rd stringers, but that's hardly definitive proof.

It makes no sense. If you can use either one to make the rest of the team on par with the rest of the NFL, do it.


I disagree. I don't like the idea of trading what appears to be a young QB with upside for a scratch ticket. And I don't think you'll get enough trade value in return if history is any indication.

IMO, DA would be worth more to other teams.


Hey, maybe we know something about Brady Quinn that nobody else on draft day knew, but the more people you're bucking, the less likely that is. So maybe Anderson's greater trade value is another argument for keeping him?
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Unread postby yogi » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:51 am

Someone (read: CHUD) is watching both of these guys in practice every day.

I think that Phil, RAC and Chud know who can lead this offense and who is the better QB for this offense and has the higher ceiling.

The answer could be that they are both capable and you do what's best for the team by getting the most you can via trade for one.

Can't you see Phill walking off the practice field nearly every day with Chud, asking his thoughts? This decision will get Chud's seal of approval.
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Unread postby pup » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:56 am

yogi wrote:Someone (read: CHUD) is watching both of these guys in practice every day.

I think that Phil, RAC and Chud know who can lead this offense and who is the better QB for this offense and has the higher ceiling.

The answer could be that they are both capable and you do what's best for the team by getting the most you can via trade for one.

Can't you see Phill walking off the practice field nearly every day with Chud, asking his thoughts? This decision will get Chud's seal of approval.


Yogi, there is no time for sensible thoughts in this post.
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Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:19 am

With DA, the evidence so far says his ceiling is from 'Jon Kitna good' to 'ready his bust in Canton'. With Quinn, his ceiling is likely to be just as good, but there's little evidence to show for it. Which is why, barring Quinn getting some serious playing time this season, I think both of them won't be moved until after next preseason at the least. Brady is Phil's guy, just as much as Derek is, I don't think he'll give up on either of them until he's got a clearer picture of which one will give him the better shot at winning.
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Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:10 am

yogi wrote:Someone (read: CHUD) is watching both of these guys in practice every day.

I think that Phil, RAC and Chud know who can lead this offense and who is the better QB for this offense and has the higher ceiling.

The answer could be that they are both capable and you do what's best for the team by getting the most you can via trade for one.

Can't you see Phill walking off the practice field nearly every day with Chud, asking his thoughts? This decision will get Chud's seal of approval.


SD:

Doesn't mean a damn thing until the real bullets start flying .

Couch looked all pretty in his uniform , pretty enough to get drafted #1 overall , and how'd that turn out.

Rick Mirer and Ryan Leaf are butt two more examples.

Extrapolating that Lady Quinn looked better agaist UPS drivers than Frye or Derek in preseason agaisnt other teams first stringers is why your basing your assumptions Quinn can automatically do what Derek has done.

Which is assinine to the empth degree.

This team came together under Anderson he's the straw which stirred us out of the rudderless suck .

You can't up and transfer that faith with a uniform change.

By your thinking you Fucks would trade a productive Jim Brown , for a Travis Prentiss because if he was drafted higher , or we traded a pick to get him .

Stop with the dumb shit .


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Unread postby pup » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:13 am

By your thinking you Fucks would trade a productive Jim Brown , for a Travis Prentiss because if he was drafted higher , or we traded a pick to get him .


You are an idiot.

Good night.
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Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:41 am

Pup wrote:For the cheap seats...one final time...then I am done with you.


NOBODY is saying DA has not been very good. NOBODY is saying DA is not a quality NFL QB.

What we are saying is this: You are not winning shit with this defense. I don't care how good your playmaker is. It doesn't work that way. Never has. Never will.

If the best/fastest way to fix the sive is to trade a QB in April...TRADE THE FUCKING QUARTERBACK. If you get as much for Quinn as you do for DA, then by all means, trade Quinn.

If DA is the one to get moved, IT WILL NOT BE THE END OF CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL. Brady Quinn can and will be a very good QB in the NFL. This is not rocket science, though SD is obviously struggling to wrap his head around anything outside of me playing Nintendo and playing fantasy. In the 2007 NFL, middle of the road NFL teams do not have the luxury of carrying 2 good quarterbacks. It makes no sense. If you can use either one to make the rest of the team on par with the rest of the NFL, do it.

IMO, DA would be worth more to other teams. He will have had a proven year as a starter. They can sign him to the contract they want, not what we gave him.

Anyway you look at, both will not be Cleveland Browns in 2008. As mad as that makes you, you might want to get used to the feeling.

And SoulDawg, this should make you happy. Maybe we can bring back your last pet project, Mr. Kelly Holcomb,to compete with with Dorsey as the #2.


SD:

Silly girl tricks are for kids .

The fact you'd bring Holcomb into this conversation is an admission of defeat on your part , and a pitiful school girls attempt to talk smack .

During the winter when I have time to killl ,just for practice
I'll slap the taste outta your mouth for even thinking you had what it takes to get in my face with such weak shit , let alone cockin off like a Bitch and crowin like you done brought sumpthin.

Lucky for you I got a point to make and am not gonna get drawn off topic .

You don't hobble a strength at QB where you have harmony to build up your defense , Quinn represents the minimum two good QB's yo need to compete in this league because of injury and the long schedule .

Its a luxury we havn't had and which most teams would strive for .

Moreover its not the only way we can build our DL , with free agency money readily available and more as contracts like Washingtons and McGinests expire and our dead money issues of the past come off the books and the cap increases by 10 million next year.

We also don't currently have a #1 pick , so we don't have the big financial hit to account for there which leaves even more Jack to back up the brinks trucks to prospects like Haynesworth Terrell Suggs and others.

and it goes without saying we also have our 2009 #1 if somebody gets us warmed up like Marilynn Monroe in a red dress standing over a vent with no panties on trying to keep the hem from blowing up around her kneck.

Signing Anderson to a long term deal allows you the time you need to play this thing out.

The Patriots didn't immediately dump Bledsoe and there is no need to immediately swap either of our QB's even if you want to stubbornly persist in your nintendo thinking in regards to this matter.

And finally , when you wasn't even a gleam in your Daddies Eyes , Paul Warfield was traded from the Browns , an untouchable heart and soul playmaker for {Drum role please}the can't miss QB prospect
MIKE FUCKIN PHIPPS

And last butt not least

look no further than the pitiful Chicago Bears , who traded a proven Running back to the Jets to make room for Bitch ass Benson because they drafted him #1 and projected he'd do allright
based on the same stoopid ass assumptions you make with Quinn
without waiting for the evidence to speak for itself.

Assumption is the Mutha of all fuckups ......and your her adopted son.




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Unread postby pup » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:04 pm

That is the problem with the backwards thinking that you like to use. Since Paul Warfield for Mike Phipps turned out bad, we should never make another trade. The pussification of fans is the first sign of old age.

We have done the rebuild the defensive line through FA already. It hasn't gotten the job done. It was the same mindset that turned the offensive line into the biggest joke since the river went burning. The finally found the cure, draft the biggest stud in the land, plant him at LT and have your way with it.

Now the same thing needs to be done with the d-line. Let's say Da Bears continue down their path of sucking and their QB play continues to spiral. And they come calling and offer their #1 and gives you a real shot at Mr. Dorsey from LSU, plus a 3rd rounder to add another guy, for DA. You gonna say no?

Albert Haynesworth? Sure. Go get him. But it will take more. This is not a one player fix with the front seven. It is closer to 7 new guys than 1.

Signing Anderson to a long term deal makes it harder to trade either one of them. Strike while the coals are hot.

Or get left at the alter with two quarterbacks and no defense.

Name the backup QB's from around the league. Nobody needs 2, because you can't afford to have 2.

Peyton..Sorgi
Brady...Cassell
Anderson or Quinn...Dorsey

That is the way the world spins.

War to the Browns playing 45-44 games and hoping we got 45.

Or fix the defense and win games 27-17.

This is not about picking DA over Quinn. It is about having the best, deepest 53 manner possible. Not the best offense. The best team. Like I have said in each post, if Quinn nets you the same take as DA, go ahead and trade him. But both is foolish. Which makes sense, since that is your side.
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Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:22 pm

Pup wrote:Albert Haynesworth? Sure. Go get him. But it will take more. This is not a one player fix with the front seven. It is closer to 7 new guys than 1.

Peyton..Sorgi
Brady...Cassell
Anderson or Quinn...Dorsey


• Position hardest-hit by injury -- Quarterback -- Half the league, 16 teams, have already started at least two quarterbacks this season. Matt Leinart (shoulder) is gone for the season, as is Jake Delhomme (elbow) and Trent Green (concussion). And the list of the walking wounded is significant: Matt Schaub (concussion), Steve McNair (groin), Trent Edwards (wrist), Tarvaris Jackson (concussion, finger), Vinny Testaverde (Achilles), David Carr (back), and David Garrard (ankle).
[url]
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/w ... rds/3.html[/url]

Pup, I know you always like pointing out the exception (ie: Brady and Manning who NEVER miss starts) but get real.

Farve: Rogers

Brunnell/Ramsey: Campbell

Brees: Rivers

Losman: Trent Edwards (both drafted in the top two rounds)

Lienhart: Warner

It goes on. Yeah only three of them are great comps, but the majority of the league tries to maintain some sort of QB depth, not bums like the Pats and Colts can afford to have.

I also love how you claim that a stud nose guard won't make all the difference in the world while still clinging to the fact that a stud LT did make all the difference in the world.

How about some consistency?

We are 2-3 players away on defense and DA is at least one more year away form being dumped (barring him falling apart this year).

Phil loves his boys, but he also loves his job (not to mention he did bring in DA). And please stop with this practice time evaluation shit. Next you are going to tell me that Frye was a great in game QB who just struggled at practice.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:36 pm

Pup wrote:Albert Haynesworth? Sure. Go get him. But it will take more. This is not a one player fix with the front seven. It is closer to 7 new guys than 1.


WHich obviously means you can't fix the d-line in one offseason. And, is why you go out and try to fix as many holes as you can via FA this offseason, and use our 2nd and 3rd rounder on the front seven. Then, next offseason, when we have our #1 pick again, target d-line with the pick and go from there and finish off the front seven.

Hopefully, after the two-year build of the front seven is completed, our offense has not gone to shit.

I believe that we have to keep both DA and BQ. To trade either of them right now, or to pin all your hopes on either of them is a bit premature. Talk to me after the 2008 season and I may be up for trading one that offseason.
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Unread postby pup » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:38 pm

I also love how you claim that a stud nose guard won't make all the difference in the world while still clinging to the fact that a stud LT did make all the difference in the world.


The stud LT made a difference because they also added to it through FA. Just Thomas wasn't enough. But Thomas and Steinbach are enough.

1 stud DL won't be enough either. You need to use both the FA and the draft.

We are 2-3 players away on defense and DA is at least one more year away form being dumped (barring him falling apart this year).


What is the point in waiting until after next year and losing him via free agency?

Why give him a 5 year deal that will make him harder to move?

And please stop with this practice time evaluation shit. Next you are going to tell me that Frye was a great in game QB who just struggled at practice.


So evaluating players in practice is not a good way to determine what you have? That is odd.

If they can improve the defense and keep both quarterbacks, that would be spectacular. And I vote for that option.

But if they can't, then one of them has to move. I don't care which one.
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Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:21 pm

Pup, practice is all fine and dandy, but it comes no where near simulating an in game experience (especially in the NFL and especially with RAC running his practice/spa every week).

The speed of an NFL game is impossible to replicate in full pads, let alone the shells that NFL teams wear all week. Sure they can figure out if BQ knows the offense, but they have no clue he will pick up reads, how accurate he will be, or how he will react to in game blitzes and defensive adjustments.

So yeah, you can judge if he knows the play book or not, but that is about it. That is why they have training camp and the pre-season and it is how you still end up with Chuck as your starting QB game 1.

As far as his pending RFA status, lock him up, it is a no brainer. Protect the team now and figure out how to handle it in the future. Phil's handling of this situation will define his tenure in C-town, let's just hope he doesn't fuck it up.
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Unread postby bostondog » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:13 pm

I think that Phil, RAC and Chud know who can lead this offense and who is the better QB for this offense and has the higher ceiling.


The aforementioned started Frye before running him out of town after a total collapse to the Steelers too.
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Unread postby yogi » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:07 pm

The aforementioned started Frye before running him out of town after a total collapse to the Steelers too.


Sorry Boston, that's BS.

DA was given many, many chances to win the job. He didn't.

It wasn't like DA played lights out and they said screw him, we'll give the job to Frye anyways.

DA sucked as bad if not worse than Charlie all pre-season.

Quinn would've had this job won if he had gotten in on time.

I don't know why the light suddenly went on for DA, but it did and we are a better , stronger and deeper team for it.

But the light came on for the OL (actually it was just playing more and more together and JT getting the experience) and BE too!
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Unread postby XUDawg » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:11 pm

Farve: Rogers

Brunnell/Ramsey: Campbell

Brees: Rivers

Losman: Trent Edwards (both drafted in the top two rounds)

Lienhart: Warner


None of your examples counter Pup's point. What you have in each case are a veteran gunslinger and a young learner, or a busted first rounder and a young franchise. You don't have two guys who are franchise QBs on any of those teams.

Rogers is a disappointment, and will probably get passed over when Favre does decide to retire.

Brees and Rivers...wait for it...didn't last. Maybe San Diego got rid of the wrong guy, but they had to get rid of one of them.

Losman + Edwards = Half of what you need at QB in the NFL. If either was good, the other would be gone.

Leinart is the franchise and not ready. Warner is an old vet who is a better option at the moment.

None of these situations resembles ours.

It goes on. Yeah only three of them are great comps, but the majority of the league tries to maintain some sort of QB depth...

Now you're on to something. When you do trade either DA or Brady (and if they get the same return value send Brady off), you bring in a serviceable veteran FA to back up Derek or Brady a la Kurt Warner or Chad Pennington.

There is no room for two young franchise QBs on one team. Really good QBs are worth too much in trade value to have two on your team.
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Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:19 pm

Well, for one thing, the main crux of my point was that using Sorgi and whoever is backing up Brady during any given year as a point of comparison is a joke.

The second crux of my point was that teams actually do often pay major money for two QBs. Yeah it may not be for the exact same situation as us, but do you really think holding DA and Quinn for another year or two would be more expensive then Rogers and Favre, in terms of % of cap space over the past few years? Cripe, SD paid Rivers top five money before the new CBA expanded the cap immensely and franchised Brees. I am just tired of hearing the "we cannot afford to allot that much cap space to the qb position" because it is hogwash. We have tons of money to spend in FA on young talent and we have a second round draft pick, we can turn this defense average in one off season.

And the third was the fact that we need depth and you caught that one.

And not enough room is a joke of an argument. If you can afford it why is there no room? I am only advocating holding onto DA until Quinn provides a large enough body of work on the field that we can be sure he can take over without a drop off. Throwing him out there blind would be foolish.
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Unread postby bostondog » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:56 pm

Quinn would've had this job won if he had gotten in on time.


That was my next point. The team had 3 options at QB, not just 2. But face it, the only reason Frye was the starter is because he was the starter last year. It’s not like he outplayed anyone to win the role. Quinn threw the only touchdown in the preseason.

And put a happy face on it all you want, but trading your starter after a 1st game shellacking is a tacit admission that you screwed up.

I am only advocating holding onto DA until Quinn provides a large enough body of work on the field that we can be sure he can take over without a drop off.


But why is Quinn the ordained starter? If Anderson is playing well, I don’t ever make the swap solely on "potential", which is just another word for never done it.
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Unread postby pup » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:33 pm

Does anyone know where there is a list of potential free agents for next year?
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Unread postby pup » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:43 pm

Here is the list I found:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/nfl ... ntsDL.html


Jared Allen, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Allen’s sack total dropped in ’06, but he still posted 7.5 and raised his tackle total a good deal. He’ll be back in Kansas City for the upcoming season, but there’s a good chance that he’ll try the market out come next offseason. He’s just 25 years of age, and has shown that he is among the league’s best at his position. He’ll be a high priority for several teams once the signing period opens.

Justin Smith, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals
Smith is an intriguing player. He’s consistent, experienced, and has a powerful motor. With 81 total tackles and 7.5 sacks in ’06, Smith showed that he was a high level end, and that he was coming into his own as a defensive leader on the Bengals. He won’t command elite dollars, but he would be valuable to several teams and may find a suitor willing to open the checkbook wide.

Terrell Suggs, UFA, Baltimore Ravens
Suggs is somewhat versatile and has become a volatile opposing presence for offenses. He has the ability to play at the linebacker spot and also attack from the line at the end spot. He has grown into a top pass rusher and presents match-up problems for most teams. He’s been near or above double digit sack totals in each of his four seasons with eight being his low. He is a true talent and will attract some large offers from various teams, but Baltimore will do everything they can to sign him to an extension, especially considering that he doesn’t turn 25 until October.

Mike Rucker, UFA, Carolina Panthers
The veteran defensive end is heading into his mid-30s, but he’s still proving to be a threat to offensive attacks. Rucker benefits from playing on a line that includes Julius Peppers, but Rucker brings some quality of his own to the position. His play in ‘02 and ’03 was stellar, and while had hasn’t reached double-digit sack totals since, he’s still posted respectable totals and helped the Panthers to being regarded as a solid defensive unit. Rucker is past his prime, but he will still contribute to a team willing to give him a chance. He’ll need to stay healthy to increase his stock on the free agent market.

Albert Haynesworth, UFA, Tennessee Titans
Haynesworth has come into the season determined to have a great year. He has a single sack through three games, but he seems to be getting pressure up the middle consistently, and is helping to allow other defensive linemen to have an even greater impact themselves. While quarterback Vince Young is a major reason for the team’s success so far, Haynesworth and the defense he is helping to lead are also contributing significantly. If Haynesworth can keep up his current play, the Titans will find it hard to let him leave via free agency, as it would create a sizable hole to fill.

Other Free Agent Defensive Linemen
Jordan Carstens UFA Carolina Panthers
Ebenezer Ekuban UFA Denver Broncos
Tommy Kelly UFA Oakland Raiders
Sam Rayburn UFA San Francisco 49ers
Mike Rucker UFA Carolina Panthers
Paul Spicer UFA Jacksonville Jaguars
Randy Starks UFA Tennessee Titans
Renaldo Wynn UFA Washington Redskins


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Unread postby cms2718 » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:00 pm

first off we aren't going to trade Anderson after this season, at least i can't see it happening, secondly this same scenario played out in San Diego anyone remember Brees and Rivers??? what i see happening is both come back next year with Quinn getting 2-4 starts then in 09 he's the full time starter, i would be shocked if anderson is around after next season (i'm not bashing the guy its just the fact that we gave up so much to get quinn). however all this could be for not if one of them gets hurt
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:59 pm

• Position hardest-hit by injury -- Quarterback -- Half the league, 16 teams, have already started at least two quarterbacks this season.

Half the league doesn't have our OL.
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Unread postby jfiling » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:46 pm

I'm not sure that there's more than one or two people being realistic about this. Brady Quinn is the future. Cap rules and the price paid in the draft are the reason. This is not a bad thing, because the emergence of Braylon Edwards, and the presence of Kellen Winslow and Joe Jurevicius give Brady easy targets to hit. The OL will protect him.

DA is going to sign an offer sheet. QBs of his caliber are too rare to slip through the cracks, and due to Quinn being the future of this team, the Browns will be more than happy enough to take at least a 1st and 3rd round pick for him. Phil Savage isn't stupid, and he knows that the front 7 on the D needs major work.

Look what he did this offseason with the OL (Thomas, Steinbach, McKinney, and re-signing Fraley). He has solidified one half of the trenches, and unless he's a complete idiot he is going to do everything he can to do the same to the other half. Doing that is going to mean clearing cap room AND getting draft picks to spend. Deal with it.

And I love DA.
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Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:33 am

jfiling wrote:I'm not sure that there's more than one or two people being realistic about this. Brady Quinn is the future. Cap rules and the price paid in the draft are the reason. This is not a bad thing, because the emergence of Braylon Edwards, and the presence of Kellen Winslow and Joe Jurevicius give Brady easy targets to hit. The OL will protect him.

DA is going to sign an offer sheet. QBs of his caliber are too rare to slip through the cracks, and due to Quinn being the future of this team, the Browns will be more than happy enough to take at least a 1st and 3rd round pick for him. Phil Savage isn't stupid, and he knows that the front 7 on the D needs major work.

Look what he did this offseason with the OL (Thomas, Steinbach, McKinney, and re-signing Fraley). He has solidified one half of the trenches, and unless he's a complete idiot he is going to do everything he can to do the same to the other half. Doing that is going to mean clearing cap room AND getting draft picks to spend. Deal with it.

And I love DA.



SD:

Come off the dumb shit .

The only cap hit we take on Quinn in a trase is his guarnteed portion .
The 7.5 million bonus of which 1/5 has allready beeb charged against this year.

His escalators over his base are based on playing time.

We can keep both until we sort this sheeit cheper than teams who have just one high paid guy .

The financial argument your stuck on is ludicrous and has been allready disproven so come again.


Moreover Anderson is part and parcel to this team going large ,
without his play we don't win a game so far this year with this defense let alone contend for the conference lead.

So take that smug shit smile that you done told us sumpthin profound and holler down a hole and keep impressing yourself.


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Unread postby XUDawg » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:35 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Yeah it may not be for the exact same situation as us, but do you really think holding DA and Quinn for another year or two would be more expensive then Rogers and Favre, in terms of % of cap space over the past few years? We have tons of money to spend in FA on young talent and we have a second round draft pick, we can turn this defense average in one off season.


It's not about how much money they're costing. It's about opportunity cost. Either Qb could net us a top flight tackle and/or multiple high draft picks in the upcoming draft. The value of having two really good options at QB is far outweighed by having a balanced team with skill, size, and depth at positions where we are very weak and where injuries are much more likely to occur.
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Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:54 am

XUDawg wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Yeah it may not be for the exact same situation as us, but do you really think holding DA and Quinn for another year or two would be more expensive then Rogers and Favre, in terms of % of cap space over the past few years? We have tons of money to spend in FA on young talent and we have a second round draft pick, we can turn this defense average in one off season.


It's not about how much money they're costing. It's about opportunity cost. Either Qb could net us a top flight tackle and/or multiple high draft picks in the upcoming draft. The value of having two really good options at QB is far outweighed by having a balanced team with skill, size, and depth at positions where we are very weak and where injuries are much more likely to occur.


SD:

Ok we'll put you down as build the DL by trading the best performing QB we've seen around here in over 20 years .

Check.

Too bad you don't realize QB's also get gurt and there are viable options to fill the talent needs on DL including free agency the seven remaining picks e have in the 2008 drfat , plus picks in 2009 if needed.

Yepper we'll get our nindento trade board out and swap x for
y and assume Lady Quinn can do the same thang , while never even factoring in team chemistry comraderie leadership confidence or Karma.

Man is outperforming the pace set by the best sixth round draftt pick ever {{, Tom Brady}} when he got his chance to start enroute to leading the Pats to their first soupie bowl , butt what the fuck does that matter compared to the nentendo set showing us common sense and reality means naught compared to their slide rule suppositions and stoopid ass unproven assumptions laced with the inexpereinced cockiness of no nothing preppy arrogance.


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Unread postby XUDawg » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:43 am

Ok we'll put you down as build the DL by trading the best performing QB we've seen around here in over 20 years .


That's not what was said. But carry on. You are ignoring everyone on this thread who says trading Brady is just as cool with us as trading Derek. It's as if you have already decided Brady's the future and can only argue about Derek to convince yourself. We can trade either of them, it doesn't matter to me.


Too bad you don't realize QB's also get gurt and there are viable options to fill the talent needs on DL including free agency the seven remaining picks e have in the 2008 drfat , plus picks in 2009 if needed.


We're not going to create a dominating front seven using low second and third round picks. And as far as FA goes, we're going to have to tie a lot of money up into Derek long term if we want to keep him. I'm all for that, as long as it means getting rid of Brady. But the highest tender is not going to be enough. So all of this free agency talk must start with tying up a lot of our money with your next Tom Brady.

Yepper we'll get our nindento trade board out and swap x for
y and assume Lady Quinn can do the same thang , while never even factoring in team chemistry comraderie leadership confidence or Karma.


Again, go ahead and trade "Lady Quinn." It doesn't make a difference to me. His contract is perfectly manageable. It's not like trying to trade Tim Couch.

Man is outperforming the pace set by the best sixth round draftt pick ever {{, Tom Brady}} when he got his chance to start enroute to leading the Pats to their first soupie bowl , butt what the fuck does that matter compared to the nentendo set showing us common sense and reality means naught compared to their slide rule suppositions and stoopid ass unproven assumptions laced with the inexpereinced cockiness of no nothing preppy arrogance.


Derek's having a pretty good season at QB. But let's save the Tom Brady comparisons for another day. Like the day he wins a Super Bowl.

Not one team in the NFL is sitting on two franchise QBs. This isn't the days of Steve Young and Joe Montana. The salary cap makes that impossible. It's time you started thinking twenty-first century football. You know, like Madden and nintendo and other "preppy no nothing" stuff.
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Unread postby pup » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:31 am

XU...It is really not worth it. SD knows all.

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Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:43 am

XUDawg wrote:
Ok we'll put you down as build the DL by trading the best performing QB we've seen around here in over 20 years .


That's not what was said. But carry on. You are ignoring everyone on this thread who says trading Brady is just as cool with us as trading Derek. It's as if you have already decided Brady's the future and can only argue about Derek to convince yourself. We can trade either of them, it doesn't matter to me.


Too bad you don't realize QB's also get gurt and there are viable options to fill the talent needs on DL including free agency the seven remaining picks e have in the 2008 drfat , plus picks in 2009 if needed.


We're not going to create a dominating front seven using low second and third round picks. And as far as FA goes, we're going to have to tie a lot of money up into Derek long term if we want to keep him. I'm all for that, as long as it means getting rid of Brady. But the highest tender is not going to be enough. So all of this free agency talk must start with tying up a lot of our money with your next Tom Brady.

Yepper we'll get our nindento trade board out and swap x for
y and assume Lady Quinn can do the same thang , while never even factoring in team chemistry comraderie leadership confidence or Karma.


Again, go ahead and trade "Lady Quinn." It doesn't make a difference to me. His contract is perfectly manageable. It's not like trying to trade Tim Couch.

Man is outperforming the pace set by the best sixth round draftt pick ever {{, Tom Brady}} when he got his chance to start enroute to leading the Pats to their first soupie bowl , butt what the fuck does that matter compared to the nentendo set showing us common sense and reality means naught compared to their slide rule suppositions and stoopid ass unproven assumptions laced with the inexpereinced cockiness of no nothing preppy arrogance.


Derek's having a pretty good season at QB. But let's save the Tom Brady comparisons for another day. Like the day he wins a Super Bowl.

Not one team in the NFL is sitting on two franchise QBs. This isn't the days of Steve Young and Joe Montana. The salary cap makes that impossible. It's time you started thinking twenty-first century football. You know, like Madden and nintendo and other "preppy no nothing" stuff.


SD:

Quinn has never played a down , so how then can we go by your assumption he's a franchise QB .

We have one man playing at a franchise level and another in the warm up box thought to have the potential to attain such rarefied air .

Problem is he has no experience whatsoever with live bullets at this level , while the incumbent vet he was drafted to replace has caught fire like a California mega blaze engulfing entire communities in his wake.

So exnay on any dumb ass trade talk for either guy until such time as we know what we have fer sure which is the most prudent course to follow,
as well as locking up Anderson long term which gives us the option
to keep him or trade him later at our discretion.

You keep em both until such time as Cleveland becomes to small for the both of them , at which time you keep the guy the team responds to best and gives you the most proven record of producing wins .

If Quinn never sees the field in the next three years it can mean butt one thing ,Its all good for the Browns .

Butt the nintendo set has to realize you don't build the "D" line on the back of either of these guys that nexus in time has not been met and that problem has to be addressed thru other sources.

We have a gold reserve here at QB that aint gonna rot , and if either or both are truely Franchise QB's then they're worth more than any stinking #1 and a #3 transition pick .

Their worth 2 # 1's .

Dumbest thing we can do right now is get all premature like the Chargers and drop our load on the honeymoon brides belley instead of landing that charge where it counts .

We have the resources to build our defense thru other means and keep both these outstanding QB prospects for thee moment , so its time to take the long term view which means you have to suspend your nintendo mindset fantasy bullsheeit and smell the roses of reality like real live grownups who actually do things and get things done for al iving
like they have some fuckin sense and aint dealin with lives personalities and team chemistry like its a monopoly game.

You don't fuck with success and you don't fix shit that aint broke and you sure as fuck don't start off making a team better by dumping your biggest and best playmaking contributors.




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Unread postby pup » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:46 am

WOW
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Unread postby jfiling » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:01 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:Problem is he has no experience whatsoever with live bullets at this level , while the incumbent vet he was drafted to replace has caught fire like a California mega blaze engulfing entire communities in his wake.


Charlie Frye?

Edit: I only ask because of this, SD:

Frye was the incumbent who got injuried , however in his abscence while DA looked good his play didn't net any wins .

Frye as the starter is written in the sands of a Lake Erie shoreline,
it means nothing during offseason beach ball .
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Unread postby rawdawgexpress » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:04 pm

souldawg74:
"Dumbest thing we can do right now is get all premature like the Chargers and drop our load on the honeymoon brides belley instead of landing that charge where it counts .

We have the resources to build our defense thru other means and keep both these outstanding QB prospects for thee moment , so its time to take the long term view which means you have to suspend your nintendo mindset fantasy bullsheeit and smell the roses of reality like real live grownups who actually do things and get things done for al iving
like they have some fuckin sense and aint dealin with lives personalities and team chemistry like its a monopoly game.

You don't fuck with success and you don't fix shit that aint broke and you sure as fuck don't start off making a team better by dumping your biggest and best playmaking contributors. "


rawdawg:

(Begins Slowly clapping)...



This offense is so good, I actually think Savage should bring in a different 6th rounder every year and then trade them for 1st rounders because its so easy to put up points.

This offense is so good, even your boy Luke McCown could put up decent numbers.

This offense is so good, we are legitimately talking about trading Derek Anderson for a 1st and a 3rd.

This offense is so good, the Browns will likely have some ProBowlers.

This offense is so good, I'm firmly convinced most backup QBS would do well, the overall strategy being

1)dropback and have enough time to file your nails

2)if its 1st or 2nd down throw it up real high to JJ or Braylon

3)if its third down throw it up real high to Winslow


So to me, Lady Quinn plus Glenn Dorsey >>> Anderson plus Lady Quinn.

So to those of you from the Dustbowl set, hiding all the money under the mattress isn't the best idea anymore.

Perhaps we can make the playoffs this year and the next, lets get a defense NOW, and not worry about draft picks in 2009 panning out. In the modern day NFL it's difficult to keep teams together- So NOW's the time. And unfortunately, we play in the AFC, with two of the historically best teams of all time. So we need a defense if were gonna beat them in the playoffs.

But if you're happy with a team that just gets to the playoffs, then go ahead and keep Anderson and have Quinn coming off the bench.
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Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:12 pm

This offense is so good, I'm firmly convinced most backup QBS would do well, the overall strategy being

1)dropback and have enough time to file your nails


I had all the time in the world.


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Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:14 pm

rawdawgexpress wrote:souldawg74:
"Dumbest thing we can do right now is get all premature like the Chargers and drop our load on the honeymoon brides belley instead of landing that charge where it counts .

We have the resources to build our defense thru other means and keep both these outstanding QB prospects for thee moment , so its time to take the long term view which means you have to suspend your nintendo mindset fantasy bullsheeit and smell the roses of reality like real live grownups who actually do things and get things done for al iving
like they have some fuckin sense and aint dealin with lives personalities and team chemistry like its a monopoly game.

You don't fuck with success and you don't fix shit that aint broke and you sure as fuck don't start off making a team better by dumping your biggest and best playmaking contributors. "


rawdawg:

(Begins Slowly clapping)...



This offense is so good, I actually think Savage should bring in a different 6th rounder every year and then trade them for 1st rounders because its so easy to put up points.

This offense is so good, even your boy Luke McCown could put up decent numbers.

This offense is so good, we are legitimately talking about trading Derek Anderson for a 1st and a 3rd.

This offense is so good, the Browns will likely have some ProBowlers.

This offense is so good, I'm firmly convinced most backup QBS would do well, the overall strategy being

1)dropback and have enough time to file your nails

2)if its 1st or 2nd down throw it up real high to JJ or Braylon

3)if its third down throw it up real high to Winslow


So to me, Lady Quinn plus Glenn Dorsey >>> Anderson plus Lady Quinn.

So to those of you from the Dustbowl set, hiding all the money under the mattress isn't the best idea anymore.

Perhaps we can make the playoffs this year and the next, lets get a defense NOW, and not worry about draft picks in 2009 panning out. In the modern day NFL it's difficult to keep teams together- So NOW's the time. And unfortunately, we play in the AFC, with two of the historically best teams of all time. So we need a defense if were gonna beat them in the playoffs.

But if you're happy with a team that just gets to the playoffs, then go ahead and keep Anderson and have Quinn coming off the bench.


SD:

Heres a news flash , we haven't done nothin ......yet.

We have one QB that might be on the way to getting us there.

You put the cart in front of the horse and hitch him to the wagon ,
you don't put the wagon in front of the horse and expect results .

You boyees want to run down the hill and fuck the first bitch you see bare assed in the park , instead of taking your time and lining them up so you make sure you fuck em all.

I grow weary of the kiddie shit just aint got the patience to change diapers no more.


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Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:19 pm

1st round defensive linemen are the only way to go,

Sincerely,

Gerrard Warren and Broderick Bunkley


PS: What team is going to trade us a top three pick to land Dorsey?

Have you looked at the NFL standings?
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Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:22 pm

jfiling wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:Problem is he has no experience whatsoever with live bullets at this level , while the incumbent vet he was drafted to replace has caught fire like a California mega blaze engulfing entire communities in his wake.


Charlie Frye?

Edit: I only ask because of this, SD:

Frye was the incumbent who got injuried , however in his abscence while DA looked good his play didn't net any wins .

Frye as the starter is written in the sands of a Lake Erie shoreline,
it means nothing during offseason beach ball .


SD:

look man it aint nothin personal honest .

Butt Charlie frye and what happenned in week one aint got shit to do with anything.

The here and now is Anderson has blown up , and just like the Patriots who struck gold unaware of what they landed in Tom Brady , you just have to ride this wave as far and as fast and as high as it will take ya .

Nobody can explain it we all saw him labor to beat Frye in preseason , start good and peter out last year butt the proof is in the here and right now , that the lightbulb has gone on , however it came to happen is of no import but we must not lose site of that Beacon which is burning right now ever so brite.

Anything past makin sure this kid aint the second coming of New England lighting by playing this hand out is just plain fuckin stoopid.



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Unread postby pup » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:42 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:1st round defensive linemen are the only way to go,

Sincerely,

Gerrard Warren and Broderick Bunkley


PS: What team is going to trade us a top three pick to land Dorsey?

Have you looked at the NFL standings?


Sweet. First round offensive lineman are too risky because of Gallery.

Sincerely,

Joe Thomas
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Unread postby rawdawgexpress » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:45 pm

Souldawg:

"You put the cart in front of the horse and hitch him to the wagon ,
you don't put the wagon in front of the horse and expect results . "

Rawdawg:

Whaa???

Can you please keep your analogies to Britney Spears and Blackberrys, cause I don't understand anything other than that.

But lemme put it to you in your terms.

Ya don't live in a shack with no running water or electricity on top of a gold mine. Ya mine the gold and buy a refrigerator.

And by refrigerator, I mean, d-line.
People call it 'vision.' I call it running away.
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Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:47 pm

Pup wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:1st round defensive linemen are the only way to go,

Sincerely,

Gerrard Warren and Broderick Bunkley


PS: What team is going to trade us a top three pick to land Dorsey?

Have you looked at the NFL standings?


Sweet. First round offensive lineman are too risky because of Gallery.

Sincerely,

Joe Thomas


Thanks for furthering my point. The first round is the roll of the dice, as is BQ right now. Naturally the thing to do would be trade an at least near playoff caliber QB for two unknowns.
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Unread postby pup » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:54 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
Pup wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:1st round defensive linemen are the only way to go,

Sincerely,

Gerrard Warren and Broderick Bunkley


PS: What team is going to trade us a top three pick to land Dorsey?

Have you looked at the NFL standings?


Sweet. First round offensive lineman are too risky because of Gallery.

Sincerely,

Joe Thomas


Thanks for furthering my point. The first round is the roll of the dice, as is BQ right now. Naturally the thing to do would be trade an at least near playoff caliber QB for two unknowns.



(headbang)

So move Quinn.

Good teams draft good players. If we want to be good, we will have to draft good. The higher the picks you have, and the better you are at making those picks, the better off you will be. Rocket science? Not exactly.

OK. Phil, trade one of the quarterbacks for picks, only if you draft good players with said picks. If we are going to trade a QB and get nothing in return, then I would be against that plan.

Trade from a percieved strength to fix a percieved weakness. That is all I am saying.
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Unread postby consigliere » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:58 pm

Pup wrote: (headbang)

So move Quinn.

Good teams draft good players. If we want to be good, we will have to draft good. The higher the picks you have, and the better you are at making those picks, the better off you will be. Rocket science? Not exactly.

OK. Phil, trade one of the quarterbacks for picks, only if you draft good players with said picks. If we are going to trade a QB and get nothing in return, then I would be against that plan.

Trade from a percieved strength to fix a percieved weakness. That is all I am saying.


I guess what I am missing here, is why the rush to deal DA or BQ? Are we going to be able to completely rebuild the front seven this offseason, and more particularly the d-line? I don't think so. This is at least a two year project.

So, you do what you can in the draft and FA this offseason at addressing those positions, and then after NEXT season you see where the cards fall with your QB situation. By then you'll have a large sample size on DA and possibly at least a small sample size with BQ to determine the course of action for a potential trade. If they are both franchise QBs at that point still, then you get two #1s or a #1 and #2 in the 2009 draft and finish off the line.
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Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:01 pm

Consigliere wrote:
Pup wrote: (headbang)

So move Quinn.

Good teams draft good players. If we want to be good, we will have to draft good. The higher the picks you have, and the better you are at making those picks, the better off you will be. Rocket science? Not exactly.

OK. Phil, trade one of the quarterbacks for picks, only if you draft good players with said picks. If we are going to trade a QB and get nothing in return, then I would be against that plan.

Trade from a percieved strength to fix a percieved weakness. That is all I am saying.


I guess what I am missing here, is why the rush to deal DA or BQ? Are we going to be able to completely rebuild the front seven this offseason, and more particularly the d-line? I don't think so. This is at least a two year project.

So, you do what you can in the draft and FA this offseason at addressing those positions, and then after NEXT season you see where the cards fall with your QB situation. By then you'll have a large sample size on DA and possibly at least a small sample size with BQ to determine the course of action for a potential trade. If they are both franchise QBs at that point still, then you get two #1s or a #1 and #2 in the 2009 draft and finish off the line.


Exactly. Not to mention that fact that Phil is not about to trade an unproven QB who is worth maybe a second rounder right now that he just sold the farm to get.

It really is simple, finish this season and start next year with both. This team is only three players away from a decent defense and two of those wholes look easily filled by the solid D-line talent on the FA market this year.
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Unread postby pup » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:21 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
Consigliere wrote:
Pup wrote: (headbang)

So move Quinn.

Good teams draft good players. If we want to be good, we will have to draft good. The higher the picks you have, and the better you are at making those picks, the better off you will be. Rocket science? Not exactly.

OK. Phil, trade one of the quarterbacks for picks, only if you draft good players with said picks. If we are going to trade a QB and get nothing in return, then I would be against that plan.

Trade from a percieved strength to fix a percieved weakness. That is all I am saying.


I guess what I am missing here, is why the rush to deal DA or BQ? Are we going to be able to completely rebuild the front seven this offseason, and more particularly the d-line? I don't think so. This is at least a two year project.

So, you do what you can in the draft and FA this offseason at addressing those positions, and then after NEXT season you see where the cards fall with your QB situation. By then you'll have a large sample size on DA and possibly at least a small sample size with BQ to determine the course of action for a potential trade. If they are both franchise QBs at that point still, then you get two #1s or a #1 and #2 in the 2009 draft and finish off the line.


Exactly. Not to mention that fact that Phil is not about to trade an unproven QB who is worth maybe a second rounder right now that he just sold the farm to get.

It really is simple, finish this season and start next year with both. This team is only three players away from a decent defense and two of those wholes look easily filled by the solid D-line talent on the FA market this year.


So you have to sign DA long term this off season to make it to that point. That will make him infinitely more difficult to trade. It will also put us in a position that we should trade Quinn in 2 years, making the market for him softer because we are trading because we have to, not because we want to. The market for either of them gets tougher with both of them locked up, IMO.

For all to understand...nobody wants to trade one of the QB's in a bad deal. Nobody is saying take a 2nd rounder for BQ. That would be so so stupid, I didn't think it would have to be broken down to the bare bottom terms. If the market is not out there for one of them, then keep them.

This d-line can be rebuilt in one year. There are a few FA's worth looking at (posted earlier in this post) and if you can get back into the early first round, there are some guys that will be well worth the pick.

We are only in need of 3 guys to start and a couple of backups. Some of the guys we have are fine for the backup spots. What they need is 1 bad ass to put in the middle, and one to put down in front of Wimbley. So 2 guys, replacing TW and Roye will make a monumental difference. If they could get both Haynesworth and Justin Smith or Suggs through FA, then we wouldn't need to get back in the first round. If we can only get 1 of them, then I think they need to get in the 1st round. If they don't get any of them, then they HAVE to get back in the 1st round.

Again, nothing would make me happier than to keep both DA and BQ, as long as we can improve the defense anyway. It is simply my opinion, agree with it or not, that they are going to have to do something extra. Unfortuantely, I believe that means they will have to move a QB.
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Unread postby XUDawg » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:14 pm

It really is simple, finish this season and start next year with both


You act like that's a given. To sign Anderson, we're going to have to do much better than the highest tender. We're going to have to give him Tony Romo money or better. That doesn't leave a lot of FA money to fix the defense.

You and SD conveniently ignore this point every time it's brought up to you.

So, there are three options.

1) Sign Derek long term, keep Brady around, and hover around .500 because your offense needs to continue putting up 40 a game to win.

2) Tender Derek and grab the picks. Improve the defense.

3) Trade Brady. Improve the defense.

You guys think that 1 is better than 2 or 3. That's fine. But one dimensional teams like the 1999 Rams aren't winning any more championships any time soon. You have to have balance. We don't.
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