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Cleveland Browns & The NFL

Anybody want to talk about trading Andrson now

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Unread postby bostondog » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:27 pm

Did Quinn win the big games in college or not? When Anderson loses, it's all on Anderson. When Quinn loses, all of the sudden we discover that football is a team sport after all. You can't have it both ways.
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Unread postby Spin » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:23 am

Would the Browns without Anderson be 1-9?

Notre Dame went from the top ten to 103rd. If they were in AA they would be ranked 16th. Wofford is ranked higher.

That is an aweful team. I would feel sorry for ND fans if they weren't so arrogant when the team is mediocre.

The Browns have a line and two pro bowl quality recievers, good game plans, and a halfway decent running game. ND can't beat Navy or Air Force. At home in front of Touchdown Jesus. You have to take that into account.

Even Brett Farve and Troy Aikman looked like crap on bad teams...
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Unread postby bostondog » Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:30 pm

The Browns have a line and two pro bowl quality recievers, good game plans, and a halfway decent running game.


So, to the start the season, you thought the Browns were contenders? I think it's somewhat revisionist history to say that the Browns were expected to be good because they had all these pieces. The Browns contending for a playoff spot is a major surprise, not an expected forgone conclusion. It's not like Anderson took over the reigns of the Patriots.

2nd, why couldn't Frye pilot the ship if it's all about the receivers and line? Clearly, and undeniably, Anderson made a huge difference whether you want to admit it or not.[/quote]
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Unread postby pup » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:04 pm

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_7477172?source=rss

What to do with Quinn?
Some have speculated that Brady Quinn will be playing elsewhere next year. When Cleveland moved into the first round to nab the Notre Dame star quarterback, many considered it a major coup.

That was before Derek Anderson started playing. After Charlie Frye flamed out in the first game, and the coaching staff decided Quinn wasn't ready, Anderson was considered a stop-gap option. Now, Anderson, who will be a free agent at the end of this season, might be on the cusp of a big contract. Anderson has been the primary reason the Browns have turned their fortunes around and saved coach Romeo Crennel's job.

Now, the team can't turn to Quinn even though he looked good in the preseason. How can Anderson be denied? Expect Quinn to be shopped in the offseason, possibly garnering a first-round pick. There will be plenty of teams interested, perhaps including Minnesota, Baltimore, Atlanta, Chicago and Carolina.

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Unread postby pup » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:09 pm

bostondog wrote:
The Browns have a line and two pro bowl quality recievers, good game plans, and a halfway decent running game.


So, to the start the season, you thought the Browns were contenders? I think it's somewhat revisionist history to say that the Browns were expected to be good because they had all these pieces. The Browns contending for a playoff spot is a major surprise, not an expected forgone conclusion. It's not like Anderson took over the reigns of the Patriots.

2nd, why couldn't Frye pilot the ship if it's all about the receivers and line? Clearly, and undeniably, Anderson made a huge difference whether you want to admit it or not.
[/quote]

Actually, there were a couple of people who said they were a QB away from being a contender.

And Frye couldn't pilot the ship because he sucks. Real bad. Skittish. Poor decisions. Lack of arm strength.

I don't think anyone is saying Anderson does not make a difference. When compared to Charlie Frye. Shit, I don't think anyone is saying DA is bad. Or even not good. All people are trying to do is explore ways to improve the defense. If trading DA and going with Quinn does that, then I think Quinn is a good NFL QB and the team will not die. If trading Quinn accomplishes the same goal, you ain't gonna hear a peep (at least from me). Better yet, if they can repair said defense AND keep both quarterbacks, that is best case scenerio.
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Unread postby yogi » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:16 pm

Expect Quinn to be shopped in the offseason, possibly garnering a first-round pick. There will be plenty of teams interested, perhaps including Minnesota, Baltimore, Atlanta, Chicago and Carolina.


This is what I don't friggin get....

We give a 1st and a 2nd for Quinn, he sits and studies for a year, is without question more ready to lead an NFL team and we would possibly get a 1st round pick back?

F that.
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Unread postby Crash Davis » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:39 pm

yogi wrote:
Expect Quinn to be shopped in the offseason, possibly garnering a first-round pick. There will be plenty of teams interested, perhaps including Minnesota, Baltimore, Atlanta, Chicago and Carolina.


This is what I don't friggin get....

We give a 1st and a 2nd for Quinn, he sits and studies for a year, is without question more ready to lead an NFL team and we would possibly get a 1st round pick back?

F that.


I am going to apologize in advance Yogi but I don't see how it can be said that without question Quinn is more than ready to lead an NFL team at this point when he hasn't even taken a regular season snap yet? I want to see proof before a decision is made on DA and that is why I am and have been advocating Quinn getting some playing time here and there when the situation warrants it.

If DA wasn't a restricted FA in the offseason I'd say lets wait and see on Quinn til OTA's and camp in '08. I am for keeping both if its doable but if not I don't want to get rid of DA just yet and hand over the reigns to Quinn, an unproven on a maybe that he is more than NFL ready when I already have an NFL QB here succeeding in this offense. Guys like Heath Shuler were considered more than NFL ready like Quinn was and played almost the exact amount of games in college as Quinn did at Notre Dame and he didn't pan out.

Do you want to get rid of DA without an extensive look at Quinn and take a chance on Quinn not knowing if he could be the next Peyton Manning or Heath Shuler?
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Unread postby yogi » Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:01 pm

Crash I think this is one of those instances where 1 word make or break the statement.

I am going to apologize in advance Yogi but I don't see how it can be said that without question Quinn is more than ready to lead an NFL team at this point when he hasn't even taken a regular season snap yet?


I didn't say than. I implied that he was at a certain level of NFL readiness when we took him at #23 last year. I then stated that he could only be more ready if he was part of an NFL team, learning studying, getting coached up.

IF he was worth us paying a 2nd rounder and the next year's 1st rounder last year........then he absolutely should be worth more than that if he was to go on the market next spring.

No one will know with 100% certainty that he will be a player in the NFL until he actually plays.
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Unread postby jb » Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:20 pm

Crash Davis wrote:
yogi wrote:
Expect Quinn to be shopped in the offseason, possibly garnering a first-round pick. There will be plenty of teams interested, perhaps including Minnesota, Baltimore, Atlanta, Chicago and Carolina.


This is what I don't friggin get....

We give a 1st and a 2nd for Quinn, he sits and studies for a year, is without question more ready to lead an NFL team and we would possibly get a 1st round pick back?

F that.


I am going to apologize in advance Yogi but I don't see how it can be said that without question Quinn is more than ready to lead an NFL team at this point when he hasn't even taken a regular season snap yet? I want to see proof before a decision is made on DA and that is why I am and have been advocating Quinn getting some playing time here and there when the situation warrants it.

If DA wasn't a restricted FA in the offseason I'd say lets wait and see on Quinn til OTA's and camp in '08. I am for keeping both if its doable but if not I don't want to get rid of DA just yet and hand over the reigns to Quinn, an unproven on a maybe that he is more than NFL ready when I already have an NFL QB here succeeding in this offense. Guys like Heath Shuler were considered more than NFL ready like Quinn was and played almost the exact amount of games in college as Quinn did at Notre Dame and he didn't pan out.

Do you want to get rid of DA without an extensive look at Quinn and take a chance on Quinn not knowing if he could be the next Peyton Manning or Heath Shuler?


I think what he's sayin' is there's no way we oughtta get back less than we gave up when he's done nothing to suggest he's not going to be as good as advertised. In fact, he had a v good X season after he signed. We can all agree X season is pretty non-descript, but he played brilliantly.

I don't think we're dealing with Aaron Rogers value here.
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Unread postby yogi » Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:25 pm

I think what he's sayin' is there's no way we oughtta get back less than we gave up when he's done nothing to suggest he's not going to be as good as advertised


yep. That's the ticket.

I would want more than a middle 1st and middle 2nd rounder.
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Unread postby Spin » Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:34 pm

I'm not a fan of either QB, or either reciever, or anybody on the team. I am a fan of the team. And I want to see the best players we have. Until BQ sees live action against an NFL defense, we won't know which one is.

The question was whether we would consider trading Anderson now. I said we haven't seen Quinn yet. Someone else said helooked bad in big college games. I said that when we drafted him. But then I took a step back and considered what he had to work with in those games. A typically overrated Notre Dame team who, if they beat Wofford or James Madison this year, it would apparently be an upset...

You want to see the argument as black and white, we either love DA and hate Quinn, or we hate Quinn and love DA. I don't give a shit if Wile E. Coyote is the QB, just as long as he brings home a Super Bowl or five.

To answer your question, with our schedule and with Steinback and Thomas, With BE and K2 healthier, with BE catching balls that hit him in his hands for the first time, and with Northcutt and Droughns gone, I thought we'd be a much better team if one of thwe QB's started doing their job. I didn't think the D would hold many leads, that's been the biggest suprise to me.
Last edited by Spin on Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Crash Davis » Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:35 pm

JB wrote:
Crash Davis wrote:
yogi wrote:
Expect Quinn to be shopped in the offseason, possibly garnering a first-round pick. There will be plenty of teams interested, perhaps including Minnesota, Baltimore, Atlanta, Chicago and Carolina.


This is what I don't friggin get....

We give a 1st and a 2nd for Quinn, he sits and studies for a year, is without question more ready to lead an NFL team and we would possibly get a 1st round pick back?

F that.


I am going to apologize in advance Yogi but I don't see how it can be said that without question Quinn is more than ready to lead an NFL team at this point when he hasn't even taken a regular season snap yet? I want to see proof before a decision is made on DA and that is why I am and have been advocating Quinn getting some playing time here and there when the situation warrants it.

If DA wasn't a restricted FA in the offseason I'd say lets wait and see on Quinn til OTA's and camp in '08. I am for keeping both if its doable but if not I don't want to get rid of DA just yet and hand over the reigns to Quinn, an unproven on a maybe that he is more than NFL ready when I already have an NFL QB here succeeding in this offense. Guys like Heath Shuler were considered more than NFL ready like Quinn was and played almost the exact amount of games in college as Quinn did at Notre Dame and he didn't pan out.

Do you want to get rid of DA without an extensive look at Quinn and take a chance on Quinn not knowing if he could be the next Peyton Manning or Heath Shuler?


I think what he's sayin' is there's no way we oughtta get back less than we gave up when he's done nothing to suggest he's not going to be as good as advertised. In fact, he had a v good X season after he signed. We can all agree X season is pretty non-descript, but he played brilliantly.

I don't think we're dealing with Aaron Rogers value here.


I am not speaking of Quinn or value for Quinn merely stating I don't want to get rid of DA just yet and hand over the reigns to Quinn, an unproven on a maybe

As far as Aaron Rogers value if your talking about both of them going in the early 20's of round one but that we also had to give up a 2nd rounder for Quinn I see that we gave much more for Quinn and he can't sit for as long as Rogers has but again we have FINALLY found a QB that can succeed in Cleveland and I don't want to ship him out of town for a MAYBE to take over just to justify where that MAYBE was picked and what we had to give up for him
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Unread postby Crash Davis » Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:42 pm

Spin wrote:The question was whether we would consider trading Anderson now. I said we haven't seen Quinn yet.


Exactly! That is all I was questioning in regards to Yogi saying he was more ready to be an NFL QB. How do we know that?

It's as simple as saying do you feel comfortable with a MAYBE playing QB in for us in '08 while our PROVEN QB is playing for someone else ?
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Unread postby furls » Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:48 pm

I would want more than a middle 1st and middle 2nd rounder.


Uhmmm, you cannot base someone's value in trade based on what you would like. You must base it on what the market will bear. Depending on the QBs in this year's draft, Quinn could be worth more or less than the Browns paid for him. I guarantee you will not get a 1st and 2nd for him.

Quinn was a late 1st rounder last year and that will have more to do with his value than the time he spent on the bench learning this year. If the Browns get a good finish to the season here, then I would be willing to part with Quinn for a 1st Round pick. The Browns could really use that pick they gave up for Quinn now.

I am not giving up on Quinn, I would just rather have a new LB or DT than a back up QB.
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Unread postby jb » Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:48 pm

Crash Davis wrote:
JB wrote:
Crash Davis wrote:
yogi wrote:
Expect Quinn to be shopped in the offseason, possibly garnering a first-round pick. There will be plenty of teams interested, perhaps including Minnesota, Baltimore, Atlanta, Chicago and Carolina.


This is what I don't friggin get....

We give a 1st and a 2nd for Quinn, he sits and studies for a year, is without question more ready to lead an NFL team and we would possibly get a 1st round pick back?

F that.


I am going to apologize in advance Yogi but I don't see how it can be said that without question Quinn is more than ready to lead an NFL team at this point when he hasn't even taken a regular season snap yet? I want to see proof before a decision is made on DA and that is why I am and have been advocating Quinn getting some playing time here and there when the situation warrants it.

If DA wasn't a restricted FA in the offseason I'd say lets wait and see on Quinn til OTA's and camp in '08. I am for keeping both if its doable but if not I don't want to get rid of DA just yet and hand over the reigns to Quinn, an unproven on a maybe that he is more than NFL ready when I already have an NFL QB here succeeding in this offense. Guys like Heath Shuler were considered more than NFL ready like Quinn was and played almost the exact amount of games in college as Quinn did at Notre Dame and he didn't pan out.

Do you want to get rid of DA without an extensive look at Quinn and take a chance on Quinn not knowing if he could be the next Peyton Manning or Heath Shuler?


I think what he's sayin' is there's no way we oughtta get back less than we gave up when he's done nothing to suggest he's not going to be as good as advertised. In fact, he had a v good X season after he signed. We can all agree X season is pretty non-descript, but he played brilliantly.

I don't think we're dealing with Aaron Rogers value here.


I am not speaking of Quinn or value for Quinn merely stating I don't want to get rid of DA just yet and hand over the reigns to Quinn, an unproven on a maybe

As far as Aaron Rogers value if your talking about both of them going in the early 20's of round one but that we also had to give up a 2nd rounder for Quinn I see that we gave much more for Quinn and he can't sit for as long as Rogers has but again we have FINALLY found a QB that can succeed in Cleveland and I don't want to ship him out of town for a MAYBE to take over just to justify where that MAYBE was picked and what we had to give up for him


I hear you and concur.
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Unread postby pup » Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:02 pm

Am I missing something, or do we not understand the difference between:

Brady Quinn is NFL ready

and

Brady Quinn is more NFL ready today than he was when we drafted him.

Of course he is more NFL ready today, but that does not mean he is NFL ready.
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Unread postby bostondog » Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:40 pm

Don't get me wrong on this because I'm not saying Quinn was a bad investment; however, he is a sunk cost. What the Browns paid in way of draft picks, cap space, etc. is all water under the bridge and no basis for making decisions going forward. Maybe you recover your investment and maybe you don't, but your decision making process should not be constrained by it.
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RACK That

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:09 pm

bostondog wrote:Don't get me wrong on this because I'm not saying Quinn was a bad investment; however, he is a sunk cost. What the Browns paid in way of draft picks, cap space, etc. is all water under the bridge and no basis for making decisions going forward. Maybe you recover your investment and maybe you don't, but your decision making process should not be constrained by it.


SD:

Take a bow .

Derek Anderson is the man right now , so as he goes so as the Browns .

Its nothing personal about Quinn , but nobody takes a PRO at any position performing at Pro Bowl levels over an untested rookie just because you have a #1 invested in his aquisition.


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Unread postby Crash Davis » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:53 pm

Pup wrote:Am I missing something, or do we not understand the difference between:

Brady Quinn is NFL ready

and

Brady Quinn is more NFL ready today than he was when we drafted him.

Of course he is more NFL ready today, but that does not mean he is NFL ready.


Define NFL ready please.
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Unread postby pup » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:40 pm

Crash Davis wrote:
Pup wrote:Am I missing something, or do we not understand the difference between:

Brady Quinn is NFL ready

and

Brady Quinn is more NFL ready today than he was when we drafted him.

Of course he is more NFL ready today, but that does not mean he is NFL ready.


Define NFL ready please.


Why?
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Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:55 am

Pup wrote:
Crash Davis wrote:
Pup wrote:Am I missing something, or do we not understand the difference between:

Brady Quinn is NFL ready

and

Brady Quinn is more NFL ready today than he was when we drafted him.

Of course he is more NFL ready today, but that does not mean he is NFL ready.


Define NFL ready please.


Why?



Why not



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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:09 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
Pup wrote:
Crash Davis wrote:
Pup wrote:Am I missing something, or do we not understand the difference between:

Brady Quinn is NFL ready

and

Brady Quinn is more NFL ready today than he was when we drafted him.

Of course he is more NFL ready today, but that does not mean he is NFL ready.


Define NFL ready please.


Why?



Why not



SoulDawg

Because.

(Sorry, couldn't resist. I think the term NFL-ready is self-explanatory, though.)
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Re: RACK That

Unread postby XUDawg » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:59 pm

Its nothing personal about Quinn , but nobody takes a PRO at any position performing at Pro Bowl levels over an untested rookie just because you have a #1 invested in his aquisition.


Of course it's not personal.

Signed,

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Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:11 pm

Steve Buffum wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:
Pup wrote:
Crash Davis wrote:
Pup wrote:Am I missing something, or do we not understand the difference between:

Brady Quinn is NFL ready

and

Brady Quinn is more NFL ready today than he was when we drafted him.

Of course he is more NFL ready today, but that does not mean he is NFL ready.


Define NFL ready please.


Why?



Why not



SoulDawg

Because.

(Sorry, couldn't resist. I think the term NFL-ready is self-explanatory, though.)


SD:

Hell man that aint nothing butt a nebulous term like Potential , means he aint never done nothin yet.

Butt he's steady eddy and ready.

To show you how worthless that term is , Couch Akilli Smith and Jickana Carter and Miss Courtney Brown were all NFL ready.

Shit anybody drafted in the first is presumed NFL ready some more than others.

Don't mean a damn thing until them bullets fly for real .

Guys need to put the nintendo and Madden 2008 in the closet before they post ,and realize plugging and playing with human components team chemistry and proven playmakers aint the same as fantasy league & make believe GM for a day .

This is the kinda shit fArt Modell used to justify trading Paul Warfield a proven All pro a contributor who helped win our last Champeeeeenship blitzing the Dolts 27-0 .

Sold him down the river for a happy meal netting the Dulphins #1 pick to get a chance at the next hot shit QB in the next draft .

I can't begin to tell ya how stoopid that was , the beginning of the end .

With him on board they won two straight Soupie Bowls including the famous 17-0 undefeated season , butt as for the Browns .

We never won it all again since that ill fated day.




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Unread postby pup » Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:38 am

SD, for real. Are you that ignant?

Nobody is calling Brady Quinn NFL ready. Nobody said he was 100% for sure ready to take over.

All I said was if Brady Quinn was at some level of NFL "readiness" in April, he is know that level, plus a season's worth of practice ready.

Just read. That is all you have to do. Quit reading for the purpose of returning fire, and read.
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Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:00 pm

Pup wrote:SD, for real. Are you that ignant?

Nobody is calling Brady Quinn NFL ready. Nobody said he was 100% for sure ready to take over.

All I said was if Brady Quinn was at some level of NFL "readiness" in April, he is know that level, plus a season's worth of practice ready.

Just read. That is all you have to do. Quit reading for the purpose of returning fire, and read.

s


SD:

Hey pup , you're the cat called him more NFL ready than any QB coming out of College as in prepared then called him even more NFL ready after going thru this year next spring .

I get all that so I guess i aint so ignant as you presume.

However by that analogy Aaron Rogers should be the premiere poster Child for NFL readiness, which as I told ya before don't mean a fuckin thang until he proves he can do it at this level.

NFL ready by your own context still spells UNTESTED and UNPROVEN .

No matter how much garnish you wanta add to the CHERRY,
Bitch still aint broke in

Capiche.

Now get back to me when she's blooded , then you can spout about how she's really really really NFL ready .this time ......clear.




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Unread postby steviedifranco » Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:32 pm

is it wrong for me to hope DA takes a hard hit to knock him out for a couple drives today so this issue can be resolved?
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Unread postby Spin » Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:13 pm

it'll never end as long as we have 2 QB's worth a crap.

I'll take this bickering over 14 more years of bad QB's and bad football.
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Unread postby jb » Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:58 pm

bostondog wrote: You can't have it both ways.


Actually you can if you understand the game.

"Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds."
- Alexander Pope


Just sayin'.
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Unread postby pup » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:01 pm

The term NFL ready means nothing.

Pretend I said car driving ready.

If you are ready to drive a car, then drive a car for 6 months, it is safe to say you are more ready to drive a car.

You a math guy?

x=Quarterback's skill level

then

x + 6 months of practice in the NFL= >x

At no point does x = Pro Bowl.

But x today is better than x in August.

It does not mean anything more than that. Never has. I agree with the untested thing you are spewing. But untested does not mean bad. You have no clue if BQ is better or worse than DA.
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Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:41 am

Pup wrote: I agree with the untested thing you are spewing. But untested does not mean bad. You have no clue if BQ is better or worse than DA.



That would be correct , which is why I favor keeping both until we sort it out .

Brady cost us peanuts next year and Anderson might take us into the playoffs this year .

So you have to go long on your thinking .


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Unread postby comish » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:27 am

SoulDawg74 wrote:
Pup wrote: I agree with the untested thing you are spewing. But untested does not mean bad. You have no clue if BQ is better or worse than DA.



That would be correct , which is why I favor keeping both until we sort it out .

Brady cost us peanuts next year and Anderson might take us into the playoffs this year .
So you have to go long on your thinking .


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It just makes me all warm and fuzzy inside to see that pick get lower, and lower, and lower :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Unread postby swerb » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:59 am

I know ... Cowboy fan was dead set on a top five pick.

Couldn't happen to a nice group of SOBs ...
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Unread postby jb » Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:28 pm

Swerb wrote:I know ... Cowboy fan was dead set on a top five pick.

Couldn't happen to a nice group of SOBs ...


They were gunning for Ken McFadden with their top pick IIRC.

I guess Miake Hart will always be there..... on day two. LOL!
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