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Beware the Ides of March

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Beware the Ides of March

Unread postby consigliere » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:13 am

I kow a lot of fans are looking like this as Christmas in March.....but sorry folks, I for one am NOT impressed with the McGinnest and Washington signings. The defense is a HUGE problem for this team, so we sign two guys close to Medicare in Washington and McGinnest?

And, according to Savage, we are now done with the major pickups in FA? WTF? The Bentley signing was great, but count me as one that is very cynical of the rest of the deals, especially the lack of attention in upgrading the defense.

Hopefully Savage didn't waste all that cap space on crap like Ferry did last offseason.
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Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:56 am

I could not disagree with you more. Mcginest is a great signing in terms of leadership alone. Washington is here to plug one basic need, stop letting teams play in front of the chains by shutting down first down runs. I think they will still draft the guy from Oregon if he is there and let him learn from Washington.

I think every player signed fills a very specific need. They will be better in the red zone on both sides of the ball because of these moves. They will be a better running team and better at stopping the run. Running game and red zone were the two biggest areas of concern this off season(as well as every other off season since 99) and they were finally addressed.
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Unread postby Guest » Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:21 pm

Tony,
Do you watch football?
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Unread postby consigliere » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:14 pm

I watch football. Not even close to the degree I watch baseball, but I watch it religiously on Sundays if not mainly for fantasy football reasons.

I'm just not buying it with Washington and McGinest. I just wonder if the fans can be objective right now. The team is so bad, that ANYONE we sign looks great. Plus, with all the local kids being signed.

Ever since the Browns came back, every year at this time when the team makes moves fans love them for the most part. Like when we signed Wolly, Verba, Trey Johnson, Tucker, Lang, Holmes, Griffith, Fuller, etc.....people for the most part always love them and pat the org on the back.

Of course, this is a natural reaction, as this happens not only with the browns, but the Cavaliers and Indians too. I recall lots of fans being all happy and wanting to suck off Ferry last summer when he signed Larry Hughes, Damon Jones, Donyell Marshall, and resigned Z. Those moves don't look so good now. The Indians? Well, people generally seem to hate everything they do, so it wouldn't matter. :wink:

I'm just willing to wait a bit to see these guys and see what else they do before I jump on the bandwagon. We've been burned too many times before in FA to not take this approach. I hope these were the right moves, but I really was looking forward to landing some FAs on defense who might be around for several years as integral pieces to the team....not two guys who are on their last legs in the league.
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Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:32 pm

Like when we signed Wolly, Verba, Trey Johnson, Tucker, Lang, Holmes, Griffith, Fuller, etc.....people for the most part always love them and pat the org on the back.


Most of those guys played pretty good here in Cleveland. When they were all signed, they were signed to be the "studs" of the team. I don't think McGinest and Washington are here to carry the team. They are here to provide leadership and fill very specific holes, which they are both very capable of.
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Unread postby comish » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:09 am

Actually, rumor has it his wife only let him watch 1 game...can't you tell :twisted:

The only question that matters: Are they better now at those positions?
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Unread postby Jon Cohodas » Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:28 pm

I kow a lot of fans are looking like this as Christmas in March.....but sorry folks, I for one am NOT impressed with the McGinnest and Washington signings. The defense is a HUGE problem for this team, so we sign two guys close to Medicare in Washington and McGinnest?


They may be old, but it sure looks to me through the end of 2005 as if they can still play. Is there more to your dislike other than their age?
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:44 pm

Pup wrote:
I don't think McGinest and Washington are here to carry the team. They are here to provide leadership and fill very specific holes, which they are both very capable of.


I think that's the key. Except I wouldn't call it leadership. I'd call it "veteran presence/guidance."

A lot of Browns' fans are now expecting playoffs next season, but if that happens, it's likely the result of Charlie Frye developing into a good starting QB, Reuben Droughns continuing to impress, Kellen Winslow starting to bounce back from his injuries and showing us some of what we'd hoped for in '04, Braylon Edwards coming back from his ACL, Brodney Pool developing into at least a good safety, and the impact of our first two or three selections in the upcoming draft. Or some combination of those things.

Washington, McGinest, Jurevicius, even Shaffer; they're stopgaps to plug our most gaping holes while we hope the above players can lead us somewhere. IMO, unless Charlie Frye goes absolutely nuts in '06, with our schedule (don't recall offhand which divisions we're playing, but I remember thinking it looked pretty tough), the most I'm hoping for is a team that maybe starts a little slow but begins putting it together in the last month or so of the year, giving us some real hope for '07 when KII & B-Ed are hopefully fully recovered and really ready to tear it up.
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Signings

Unread postby bostondog » Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:02 pm

I think both signings are upgrades, but certainly not long-term fixes. Ted Washington has certainly seen his best days. McGinest had a great year, but historically the Pats bail on guys before they are over the hill and not after. They'll help, but making investments in younger guys would have been better.
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Re: Signings

Unread postby consigliere » Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:07 pm

bostondog wrote:They'll help, but making investments in younger guys would have been better.


And that's what I am getting at. I saw about 3-4 franchise type defenders for the taking, young guys with several years of football left in them. I look at McGinest and Washington as complimentary players, not playmakers.
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Unread postby wmurphyhh » Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:24 pm

bostondog wrote:
They'll help, but making investments in younger guys would have been better.

Yet, isn't that what they did by targeting Edwards and Maake Kemoeatu ? Both got away, so Phil took what was available.

Why did so many free agents come to the Browns this year ? Money or hometown. We're not going to be $25 mil under the cap next year. Young players wanting to come home like Bentley did are not going to be around every year (6yrs, $36 Mil may have had something to with it). The Browns need to improve in order to become an attractive option to other free agents in the next few years. McGinest and Washington will be invaluable in the locker room, make some plays, and raise the perception of the team to others in the league.

A quote from ESPN Insider regarding Sam Adams -
The Cleveland Browns reportedly have told Adams' agent they are waiting until after filling their need for a backup quarterback before turning their attention to bringing the veteran defensive tackle on board.

Why are we looking for a backup QB ? I thought Charlie or Trent would start and the other would be the backup.
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Unread postby consigliere » Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:03 pm

If this team goes into the season with Charlie and Trent as their QB duo, we have problems.

The offense, provided Edwards and KW2 return, will have above average talent everywhere on offense except QB. The WRs, RBs, o-line, and TEs will be above average groups. The onus will be 100% on the QB next year, and there are no more excuses since the QB will have a good line, a good running game, and good receivers.

Not sure what is available, but if we can find a better QB to at least replace Dilfer, I am all for it. I'm not sold on Frye at all, but it looks like we have no choice right now....so I hope he pans out.
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Unread postby furls » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:40 am

I'm just not buying it with Washington and McGinest. I just wonder if the fans can be objective right now. The team is so bad, that ANYONE we sign looks great. Plus, with all the local kids being signed.


I actually kind of agree with this. The reason the Bentley signing was so good was because his best football is ahead of him. While Willie and Washington are good pickups (I think) they are definetly beginning the descent and it is usually these guys that the Indians/Browns/Cavs end up with.

So my question is, will they be Hershiser's or Hernandez/Kemp/Burbas?
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Unread postby Guest » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:07 am

Burbas?

????????????????????????
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:20 am

I think a good cross-sports analogy with McGinest/Washington would be are they Eddie Murray....or Dave Winfield?
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Re: Signings

Unread postby HoodooMan » Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:29 pm

Consigliere wrote:I saw about 3-4 franchise type defenders for the taking, young guys with several years of football left in them.


Who?

I know a lot of people saw the NT Kemo that way, but he seemed like more of a grass is greener kind of guy to me.

Julian Peterson was and continues to be my top free agent defensive player, and I'd love to see us make a push for him once his price comes down.

And I don't know about Arrington. I can't see his freelancing style being especially popular with a defensive coach.

Anyone else?
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:30 pm

wmurphyhh wrote:A quote from ESPN Insider regarding Sam Adams -
The Cleveland Browns reportedly have told Adams' agent they are waiting until after filling their need for a backup quarterback before turning their attention to bringing the veteran defensive tackle on board.


What was the date on that?

The backup QB thing doesn't surprise me, but the continued interest in Sam Adams does a little.
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:54 pm

Well, I was definitely looking to add Peterson instead of McGinest. Maybe even Arrington. Some others I would have liked on defense would have been Clements (was he franchised?) and Witherspoon (who signed with the Rams).

I like McGinest, just not sure if we spent the money right on him instead of someone else with more upside and could stick around a lot longer. I mean, on the free agent ranking list there are like 15 LBers ranked ahead of him, and they all range in 3-5 years in the league.....IOW, they are probably getting better (while McGinest may be declining).
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Unread postby furls » Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:56 pm

Burbas?


Was trying to make Hernandez/kemp/burba plural by inclusion. I can see the confusion. i was referring to Dave Burba.
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:41 pm

Consigliere wrote:Well, I was definitely looking to add Peterson instead of McGinest. Maybe even Arrington. Some others I would have liked on defense would have been Clements (was he franchised?) and Witherspoon (who signed with the Rams).


I'm witchoo on JP. He would have been (and I guess could still be) to the defense what Bentley was for the offense--a young and exceptionally talented player at a position of need.

Clements was franchised. Witherspoon's even lighter than JP who's a bit of a stretch to fit in the 3-4 himself. I actually don't think this was an especially talented group of defensive free agents, except for Peterson and maybe Arrington. I think Phil's "quality over quantity" comment may have been intended in part to prepare Browns' fans for a FA period in which some of our most glaring needs--on the defensive side of the ball--waited for draft day to be addressed.
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Unread postby wmurphyhh » Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:45 pm

ESPN's rumor on Sam Adams was posted on Thursday.
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I agree...

Unread postby bostondog » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:13 am

We're not going to be $25 mil under the cap next year.


Yeap, we certainly won't be in this position next year. That is why I wonder if signing older players now just because the young guys got away is a great strategy. Could the Browns go from suck to Super Bowl in a year? Perhaps, but I believe it's unlikely.

In Savage we must trust. :D
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Unread postby swerb » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:10 pm

I like and agree with the signings of McGinest and Washington.

The Browns will add more pieces to there front seven between now and August as well. They currently have 7 picks in the first 5 rounds. I'm expecting at least 3, maybe 4 or 5 of those picks to be defensive front seven guys. This is also dependant on how they finish out free agency.

Outside of Andra and Orpheus, the Browns front seven was a mess last year. They were amongst the worst in the league at pressuring the QB, as well as stopping the run. They targeted two veterans. One has made a living getting to the QB. The other ... stopping the run.

The Browns also needed a couple things, both of which they fulfill with these signings:

1. Veteran Leadership
2. Guys that KNOW the 3-4

When things went wrong for the Browns last year, especially defensively, it was almost like they were looking around for guidance. Romeo and Grantham are both heavily involved in managing the game from 1-4 PM, and can only fill that void to a certain extent.

McGinest and Washington are like coaches on the field. They've seen every possible scenario someone can throw against a 3-4. They will help this team not only between the whistles ... but in the 45 seconds that elapse between each play.

And let's not forget ... these two are still playing at an incredibly high level, and neither has missed a game the last two seasons.

The Browns are making a commitment to winning NOW (these next 2 years), and these guys will both help us do that in my view.
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Unread postby swerb » Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:59 am

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plainde ... xml&coll=2

While the Browns never blatantly quit in any games last season, they didn't exactly play every one with fire - with the losses to Houston and Detroit coming to mind.

But Browns insiders say the team's flame should stay much closer to "high" this season, now that the club has signed veteran nose tackle Ted Washington.

Last year, with the Oakland Raiders, Washington got into a heated sideline encounter with fellow defensive lineman Tommy Kelly during the final moments of a loss to Miami - one that ended only when the two were separated by other Raiders. The reason for Washington's ire: he felt his younger teammate had eased up and wasn't playing hard or smart ball until the final snap.

Such in-your-face fire, team insiders say, should be a welcome addition on this year's Browns.
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Unread postby SpaZDawG » Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:06 am

And now im a HUGE (pun intended) Ted fan
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:50 am

You just KNEW it was going to happen, didn't you? All the hype from the offseason haul has slowly dissipated...

Bentely out for the year. Hallen quits. McGinnest banged up with and still not playing. Good Lord, can we catch a break?
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Unread postby consigliere » Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:50 pm

bump
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Unread postby Guest » Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:56 pm

I want Romeo gone
I wanted to give him another year but in my eyes he has NO clue
The talent is here in certain areas.
We just flat out SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Unread postby consigliere » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:16 pm

Totally agree.

Anyway, my purpose for bumping this is how much FA is over-rated....whether it be in relation to the Browns, Indians or Cavaliers. Bottom line, you have to draft and develop players to win. The Browns have not done a good job with that since their return, the Indians are getting better at it after a horrible run of drafts in the last 90s and early 00s. The draft and player development may not matter as much in the NBA, being that rosters are only 15 deep in an org compared to 300-some baseball and 60 or so in football......but you still need to hit on some draft picks or young talent. No surprise that arguably the best players for the Cavaliers going forward are James, Varejao, and Gibson.

You have to draft well. Free agents are not the be all end all people make them out to be. Everyone gets so excited when we sign a "name" and so pissed when we don't sign a "name" in either sport.
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Unread postby yogi » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:23 pm

Quote:
We're not going to be $25 mil under the cap next year.


Yeap, we certainly won't be in this position next year. That is why I wonder if signing older players now just because the young guys got away is a great strategy. Could the Browns go from suck to Super Bowl in a year? Perhaps, but I believe it's unlikely.

In Savage we must trust.


Well, there is some good news, we're expected to be $33M or so under the cap![/quote]
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Unread postby Guest » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:28 pm

Who is really going to want to come here?
It's a joke of a franchise
Terrible

You are right Tony
F those free agents
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