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Adam Schein

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Adam Schein

Unread postby Scott_Sargent » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:11 am

Not sure if anyone saw the Adam Schein video this week. I know it's on MSN somewhere - not about to search for the link.

Pretty much, his rant was about how the Browns are closer to being on the clock than they are to being in the playoffs and without a first round pick next season - which will likely be high on his calculations - we won't be able to improve going into 2008.

He then said we're the only team in the NFL without a top-32 QB which was just great to hear, implying that others have second-stringers that are better than any of our three play-callers.

Looks like Browns-bashing season is in full-effect.
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Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:32 am

Sounds pretty objective to me.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6926526
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Unread postby pup » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:43 am

Call me a kool-aider or whatever you want, but I don't really see any reason to thinks the Browns will be any worse than last year. While that might not be saying too much, there are reasons to think they will be significantly better, to the tune of 7 or 8 wins.

1. The offensive line is better. Joe Thomas and Eric Steinbech are each better than any single player we started there last year, that is indisputable, IMO.

2. Jamal Lewis will at least equal the running back play from last year. Will he be a significant upgrade, I don't know, but he cannot be any worse. Maybe we get some improvement out of the #2 and 3 backs and Vickers doesn't throw any incompletions.

By my count, those are 2 areas that are improved. If he or anyone else does not agree that is fine. A pre-requisite to writing for the national media is hating on teams that have been down, then jumping on them after a few wins.

The QB position is not a strength, today. Is Brady Quinn the answer? Probably not this year, but for the future I have to think there is at least a chance we are better than only having Frye/Anderson/Dorsey plus the hope of landing Brian Brohm.

Wide receivers are capable. JJ, while getting long in the tooth, is a great leader for this group. BE needs to grow up, which has been convered extensively on this board over the off season. Is Travis Wilson or Josh Cribbs ready to be a legit #3? That is the one big question mark. KW2 is a top 5 TE in this league and if healthy gives us an advantage in most games.

I feel, if the offense was a 2 in 2006, it has the potential to be a 5 in '07 and maybe a 7 in '08. There is growth and a future with this unit.

The defense is not a bad group. Easy-E is a significant piece. This is a unit that played with Ralph Brown last year, and for the most part (until the offense left them in no man's land too often) was decent as a whole.

The young linebackers have shown some skills. I think we have one too many Andre Davis and either he or D'Qwell should back the other one up.

Kam is a beast, Shaun Smith allows Ted Washington to be better.

The safeties are an exciting combo. One of them needs to step up and become the leader back there. I think Sean Jones is that guy.

Are the Browns a playoff team? Probably not. Is the front half of their schedule brutal? Yes. Do I believe they are a 3 win though? No.

There is reason to be excited about the future, and that begins this year.

Consider me drunk in the Kool-Aid if you will, if someone can dispute any of what I think, feel free.
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Unread postby pup » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:57 am

Found the video. Fox does not provide a link for it, it is on the video player on the right side of their homepage.

Not as bad as I expected.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:47 am

Did not hear this take, however, Schein and his NFL Blitz show on Sirius radio is far superior than any drivel the local stations have run in the past few years. He's not one of these guys that going to criticize based on some sort of agenda. Pretty level headed guy and he's starting to acquire quite a bit of juice in the NFL circles.
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Unread postby pup » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:50 pm

I agree. What I thought he was going to say, and what he actually said where completely different.

Basically he said the Browns could very well be on their way, but with the front of their schedule being so tough it will make it hard.


One thing I agree with big time is the theory that how teams start the first month is basically what they end up being at the end. It is the same reason I thought the Browns would be better last year, their first month didn't look all that scary. The NO turned out to be really good, Carson Palmer was ready for the start of the season and the losing created more losing.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:02 pm

And, unfortunately, he is correct about the quarterback situation.
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Unread postby BadBecks » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:03 pm

I agree...unless Quinn develops like Leinhart or Cutler did last year then the writer is pretty dead on. Our other QB's just aren't good...at all.
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Unread postby pup » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:07 pm

I know it is not the norm, but I am pretty sure bad QB's have won more than 3 games in this league.

They do it with a good running game and a strong defense.

The Browns should have those.
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Unread postby bw » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:38 am

Lead Pipe wrote:And, unfortunately, he is correct about the quarterback situation.


We honestly just don't know that for a certainty.

Don't forget the turmoil the Browns' offense was in last year. We lost dilly-dally, an offensive coordinator and our O-Line was a disaster sans LeChuck.

And that's just the tangible part. The intangible was the emotional firing of the O-Coordinator and the (very) emotional loss of Bentley.

Not to mention our D was a pathetic excuse for an NFL calibur squad, forcing our Offense to play from behind more often than not. Maybe with Ted staying home this year and not coaching in NFLE (I don't think he did) he'll have his head on somewhat straight.

Until the Browns show me otherwise, I'm predicitng a 19-0 season. The first of many.
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Unread postby psk678 » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:19 pm

Pup, I think you're right on and the optimism is very legitimate...

Savage and the FO have made the right steps towards success, granted some say we concieveably mortgaged the future, but thats what this team, franchise and city needs....a high risk, high reward gamble.

I don't know how Schein can say that about our QB situation. Unless he feels JaMarcus Russell, an unproven QB, is better than Charlie Frye. If that was the case, we have an unproven QB ourselves, Brady Quinn. It's a wash.

Like someone else said, there have been shitty QB's on good teams, but we don't take that into account. IMO, Frye is just as good a QB than Big Ben. That's another debate for another day.
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Unread postby mistero » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:04 am

I like Schein but the problem with these guys and all "predicters" in general is they act as if the off season never happened. They base their predictions on the 2006 rosters.

This Browns team is much improved. Anderson has a real chance to just as solid as a guy like Alex Smith who gets his ass massaged 5 times a day for being nothing but a crappy QB with some promise. We have 3 young QB's, one of them will rise to the challenge. Call it kool aid ,call it fan speak but I have faith in the new coaches and system in place to make sense out of the wreck that was the Browns offense.

The defense on the other hand should be legit. In the 3rd year of RAC's sytem with real 3-4 talent in place. They should win 4 or 5 games on their own.

We'll be fine and that pick Dallas gets won't sniff the top 10.

Bottom line is if we had some ex-Browns working at Sirius you would hear a different song.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:10 pm

psk678 wrote:Pup, I think you're right on and the optimism is very legitimate...

Savage and the FO have made the right steps towards success, granted some say we concieveably mortgaged the future, but thats what this team, franchise and city needs....a high risk, high reward gamble.

I don't know how Schein can say that about our QB situation. Unless he feels JaMarcus Russell, an unproven QB, is better than Charlie Frye. If that was the case, we have an unproven QB ourselves, Brady Quinn. It's a wash.

Like someone else said, there have been shitty QB's on good teams, but we don't take that into account. IMO, Frye is just as good a QB than Big Ben. That's another debate for another day.


Problem is, Andrew Walter is better than Chaz Frye as well.

Look, as to what Pup's reply, yes, you can win more than 3 games with a poor quarterback, but if you want to be really good, you need someone that knows what the hell is going on back there or you are going to make it VERY difficult on yourself. And, it is imperative that you have someone intelligent calling the shots.

Lastly, I'll bite. I don't think Big Ben is all that good. But to say Chaz Frye is as good as Ben Roth, well, Christ, I'm not sure where the hell that's coming from.
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Unread postby psk678 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:55 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:
psk678 wrote:Pup, I think you're right on and the optimism is very legitimate...

Savage and the FO have made the right steps towards success, granted some say we concieveably mortgaged the future, but thats what this team, franchise and city needs....a high risk, high reward gamble.

I don't know how Schein can say that about our QB situation. Unless he feels JaMarcus Russell, an unproven QB, is better than Charlie Frye. If that was the case, we have an unproven QB ourselves, Brady Quinn. It's a wash.

Like someone else said, there have been shitty QB's on good teams, but we don't take that into account. IMO, Frye is just as good a QB than Big Ben. That's another debate for another day.


Problem is, Andrew Walter is better than Chaz Frye as well.

Look, as to what Pup's reply, yes, you can win more than 3 games with a poor quarterback, but if you want to be really good, you need someone that knows what the hell is going on back there or you are going to make it VERY difficult on yourself. And, it is imperative that you have someone intelligent calling the shots.

Lastly, I'll bite. I don't think Big Ben is all that good. But to say Chaz Frye is as good as Ben Roth, well, Christ, I'm not sure where the hell that's coming from.

You're on another planet if you think Walter is better than Frye. Now, granted, I'm not the biggest Frye supporter in the world, but, dude, give me a break. Did you watch the Radiers at all last year?

As for the Frye/Big Ben debate, you switch those guys and put them on different teams, you get the same (or close to the same) production. They are both cut from the same cloth and are not very good NFL QB's. Roethlisberger just had the stability of an awesome running game and studly defense.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:40 pm

I fully understand Big Ben walked into just about the easiest QB situation on the planet...that doesn't make him Chaz Frye. Hell, if Frye was there lofting every ball high over the middle Hines Ward wouldn't even be alive to play in the bowl. Look, as with Tim Couch, we'll see what happens when Chaz gets cut. If Big Ben were to be cut today, every team in the league would be interested in giving him a shot. Chaz will be staring at the phone, with that same blank stare he has during a game.

And, you are on another planet if you think an excellent defensive team with a great running game would even think twice about a turnover prone QB.

As I've said before, the Cleveland Browns did not ruin Tim Couch. He was a pretty poor player, that's why he didn't survive numerous tryouts minus the first round pick vigorish. The Cleveland Browns did or will not ruin chaz Frye either. If he can play, someone will pick him up and he'll do well. If he can't.... What ties these two together isn't so much the fact they were in a tough situation (which they were) it's that they lack a huge component of just about any good QB, and that's what's between the ears.

Incidentally, this is why Frye will be out of the league rather quicky. Good back-ups help with schemes, plays etc. Umm, Chaz won't be much help in that respect.

And, I watched the Raiders, Andrew Walter stinks. I watched the Browns....
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Unread postby psk678 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:05 pm

Whatever, dude.

All I'm saying is when the Steelers won the Super Bowl, Roethlisberger wasn't asked to throw the ball 30+ times. They told him to hand the ball off, sit there and look pretty. Oh and maybe you can throw the ball every now and then, when the defense has 9 guys in the box. Hell, my little sister might be able to do just as good a job. (Alright, maybe that's going too far)

A turnover prone QB? Are you talking about Frye or Roethlisberger?

And if you are trying to compare Couch and Frye, thats completely unfair.

Couch was a first round pick who was absolutely anihilated by an 8th grade offensive line and superior 'deep threats' like Andre King and Kevin Johnson. The Browns took a waiver on Frye in the third round, thinking, 'Hey, maybe this kid from Akron can come in and make something happen'.

They were wrong.

And your wrong, Tim Couch was ruined. He didn't survive numerous tryouts because he was absolutely decimated during his stay in Cleveland and his frame of mind as a QB was shot to shit.

I do agree that Frye doesn't have the mental capacity that you really want in a QB at this level. And he is pretty much making it in this league based on his gut and instincts. Unfortunately, that aint gonna cut it.
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Unread postby Crash Davis » Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:50 pm

Despite the Browns inept record under both Couch and Frye there is a HUGE difference in the lack of talent around the two. Couch had absolute garbage to work with in names like Steve Zahursky, Travis Prentice, Ben Gay, Darrin Chivarini, Andre King, who were all starters in the first three years of Couch's career. Now compare that with what Frye has to work with in his first three years: Winslow, Edwards, Eric Steinbach, Jamal Lewis and heck even throw in Reuben Droughns who rushed for over 2000 yards during Charlie's first two years a feat no one even came close to in Couch's first four years let alone two.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:58 pm

Why is Couch not in the league? And, don't use arm injury because he went to plenty of tryouts healthy, did poorly, and then his agent would claim he wasn't at full strength. Please. Look, I had no problem with Couch's character, he just wasn't that good. The Buccaneers didn't do Steve Young any favors, but the guy could PLAY. Couch isn't sitting at home because of the Cleveland Browns.

Lastly, psk, I'm not sure we're that far off here. You gave me the "whatever dude" and then I read the last line of your post....that's kinda what I'm getting at.

And, again, the Steelers situation we kind of agree on as well, except for the fact it's not THAT easy. If it were, the Stellers would have one a couple bowls with that knucklehead "Slash" running around the pocket.
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Unread postby Crash Davis » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:11 pm

I am gonna use his injury as the reason Lead Pipe b/c he was injured when the Browns let him go. Saying injury is not the reason is simply not true. A good friend of mine writes for the Lexington Herald Leader in Kentucky and she has done several articles (all of which can be documented) on Couch's attempt to comeback. Why do you think he won a grievance that he filed against Green Bay for not putting him on IR for the year instead of cutting him at the end of camp?

Since Green Bay was the first team he tried out with and signed a few weeks after the mighty Browns let him go health IS the issue. He even admitted last year in article my friend wrote that after his third arm surgery since '04 that no doctor had ever given him medical clearance to tryout when he did and failed each and every physical with the Bears, Giants, Bengals, Colts. Call him stupid for not listening to doctors if you want but don't question (not saying you are) his competitiveness and desire to prove naysayers wrong.

That being said ultimately what should have happen is he should have been put on the Packers IR which would have kept him from doing anything til the next camp in '05 but since that didn't happen and he won the grievance against the Pack he should have not tried to come back so soon. His first tryout later that fall in '04 was with the Bears who said he would throw great one day and couldn't throw 20 yards the next. That has been virtually the same story everywhere he has tried out since.
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Unread postby Crash Davis » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:18 pm

Lead Pipe wrote: Couch isn't sitting at home because of the Cleveland Browns.


No, he is sitting at home b/c Dwight Clark and Butch Davis failed to properly scout and evaluate offensive line talent or better yet lack there of. Where are they now?

One is sitting at home on his couch non pun intended and the other just got of his couch again no pun intended after three long years to coach a last place NCAA football program in a conference primarily known for college basketball. My attempt at sarcasm I guess.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:28 pm

Crash Davis wrote:Lead Pipe wrote: Couch isn't sitting at home because of the Cleveland Browns.


No, he is sitting at home b/c Dwight Clark and Butch Davis failed to properly scout and evaluate offensive line talent or better yet lack there of. Where are they now?

One is sitting at home on his couch non pun intended and the other just got of his couch again no pun intended after three long years to coach a last place NCAA football program in a conference primarily known for college basketball. My attempt at sarcasm I guess.


Dwight Clark and Butch Davis evaluated just about everything wrong - including quarterback.

Look, I didn't mean to turn this into a Couch argument. I'm glad that's over with. That being said, I never questioned his competitivness or heart. I just don't think the guy was a good player, and in my opinion, this is the reason he isn't in the league. If he truly has serious injuries, that's unfortunate. He has a very similiar problem to Frye in being unable to read defenses and throw the ball on time. Hal Mummy's playground style offense did the guy zero favors as far as readying him for the next level, and he, like Frye isn't as smart as you need to be to drive an NFL offense.
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