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If Culpepper becomes available should we pursue?

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If Culpepper becomes available should we pursue?

Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:45 am

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2896941

If he does get cut, should the Browns seriously attempt to sign him to compete?
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Unread postby dpdad » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:00 pm

If all we're looking for is a vet to mentor Brady Quinn, I'd rather bring back Kelly Holcumb than Culpepper. See if you can get a fourth or fifth round draft pick for Frye, and let DA or Holcumb start the season, with Quinn coming in at the bye week.
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Unread postby mistero » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:40 pm

This team really likes Ken Dorsey in the mentor role. He might be short on physical talent but apparently he's pretty smart with the X's and O's. Reminds me of Jason Garrett, Danny White, or Gary Kubiak. Not much as a player but perfect as the 3rd QB/mentor.

That leaves Frye or Anderson as the sacrificial lamb until Quinn is ready.

I don't see what Culpepper can do for you. Seems like a poor fit.
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Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:04 pm

It depends on if he's healthy. The 'Fins will try and trade him, which I would not (unless a conditional) do if Savage. However, if the guy is relatively "free" (which he won't be) then why not. The Browns could be slightly attractive, as he probably has a better chance of starting here then anywhere. I don't think he makes a good mentor for Quinn, however.

I don't see what Culpepper can do for you.
I don't know. Maybe win a few games. Quinn needs to sit, and if the holdout rumors are true, he may not see the field until '08.
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Re: If Culpepper becomes available should we pursue?

Unread postby jb » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:14 pm

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2896941

If he does get cut, should the Browns seriously attempt to sign him to compete?


For free? From a release?

For a Browns' friendly low-risk contract?>

We'd be stupid not to sign him.

We have nada at the position and Brady needs a while to develop.

What's the worst thing that could happen from signing Daunte? Where is the down side?
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Unread postby pup » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:26 pm

Why would Daunte sign here is a better question. Especially for a

For a Browns' friendly low-risk contract?>


The guy can barely walk and has never been worth a nickle bag without Randy Moss and a phenom running game.
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Unread postby furls » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:19 pm

Pass,

He would contribute nothing here, but maybe one mediocre year. We have bad quarterbacks already, why add to the collection?
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Unread postby FUDU » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:58 pm

What's the worst thing that could happen from signing Daunte? Where is the down side?


It depends on if you bring your wife on the cruise.

Seriously though, if he's free he's for me.

The more competition the better.
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Unread postby mattvan1 » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:52 am

The question that needs to be answered - "A healthy D. Culpepper is a better QB for the 2007 Browns than either C. Frye or D. Anderson" True or False?

If your answer is True, and he's a bargain then what is there to lose? Other than another QB controversy. It's not like the guy is Kyle Boller. We will have 3 bad QBs, (4 counting Brady, err I mean Pawlus, err I mean Quinn) and one who should be out of the league. I believe a healthy Culpepper sucks less than Frye or Anderson. I believe Quinn should not see the field until the last 4 games of 2007. I mean, it's somewhere between 5-11 and 7-9, so what's the big deal?
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:47 am

Assuming he comes on the cheap, I don't see why we would not take a look at acquiring him. I'd be all for Culpepper out there as the QB over Frye/DA. In fact, if Culpepper shows himself to be much healthier, then I like our chances next season. I think QB is the one position next year that is keeping this team from being a potential 9-10 win team (d-line too, but QB is the bigger issue to me).
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Unread postby jb » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:23 am

I'm still really waiting to hear why not.

No one has made a convincing argument other than he may only be good short term, he may still be hurt, or we already have bad QB's and din't think Daunte was all that good anyway.

Again, that just bolsters the point.

Let me tell you why you sign him.

Reports from the darft scouting process that cause the free-fall and mini-camp and rookie camp is that Brady Quinn as the most NFL reday QB is a crock a shit. He's got mechanicxal issues and is way over his head. This is perfectly fine, BTW. From all reports he's a smart, humble kid who has a hell of a work ethic and more than enough physicxal skils. But if you play this kid before that shit is corrected, it means you are ruining him. YOu paid too much and there's too much riding on him to do t hat.

The odds are tha after 2 seasons and 18 starts, Charlie Frye represents a WYSIWYG proposition. How's that working out for you?

There is some hpe for DA as an unknown. He has mad upside physically. He also throws INT's like Brittany throws drama from college to the pros. My man LBS in another lifetime once did a breakdown for me on how rare it is for cats to change when they do this in college. There is n reason to hedge your bets on DA, although I am 100% convinced that in a bona fide fair and open competition he outplays anyone on the roster.

Kent Dorffman, the Legacy, isnults me by being on the roster. He's a veteran mentor? Who the fuck are you kidding? He's a young QB who started about 6 games fopr the worst team in the NFL and got benched for another player so bad they reached and selected Alex Smith number one overall. I doubt he's good enough to play for Cuban.

Yeah, Daunte Culpepper had his best years with Randy Moss (who also, BTW, has been a big giant rim jobber since he left Culpepper) . BUt Holy Cow, nearly 5,000 yards a season IIRC isn't just a "best year" in the sense that Tim Couch once threw for well over 3,000, it is all-time worthy. He can't run like he once did, but he can read an NFL D better than anyone we have, he has a better arm than Charlie, and he's the ultimate low - wisj / high - rewrad proposition for a team that has the worst starting QB situtation for 2007 in the NFL.

Last point - the BRowns are no longer in a development year. They are in a win-now year. We are all excited by the talent in the pipeline and situation on paper. But palying the Frye of last season will negate that my friends. The inability to make plays and the propensity of turnovers means that 7 or 8 win talent becomes 4 or 5 win output . This team needs to learn how to stop getting Dirty Sanchezed by the rest of the AFC North. Now. There are many new players and many young players. They have the opportunity to brea the cycle and position themselves to mak ethe big move next year as the talent matures and we finish adding a piece or two and getting yet another GD offesnive system installed. Having a vet QB, any vet QB who isn't horrible like Frye like a Culpepper or a Bledsoe type can help much more than I believe you all are recognizing.

THis season matters for the Browns to improve by 4 games or so as much as it does for say NE to rebound to a SB or Philly and Pbgh to bounce back to being playoff teams. If you can do a low risk / high reward move to imprve the weakest position on the club with no downside, why wouldn't you?
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Unread postby bw » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:38 am

I'm still really waiting to hear why not.

Because we don't know if he still wants to play football. Seriously. He's made a lot of money and has endured a lot of pain and mental anguish in the past two years. He might very well be burnt-out.

It happens.

And the last thing we need on this team is someone who is tired of the game and has a negative attitude. Not saying he's a locker room cancer, just saying that if your heart's not in it, you can't help but bring others down.
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Unread postby jb » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:46 am

bw wrote:I'm still really waiting to hear why not.

Because we don't know if he still wants to play football. Seriously. He's made a lot of money and has endured a lot of pain and mental anguish in the past two years. He might very well be burnt-out.

It happens.

And the last thing we need on this team is someone who is tired of the game and has a negative attitude. Not saying he's a locker room cancer, just saying that if your heart's not in it, you can't help but bring others down.


Well then it's up to him, bother? Isn't it? I mean, I see Willie McGinest and grant you your point, but I hope to believ ethat since Daunte has already received his big payday deals and been out the game for 2 / 3 seasons and thru excruciating rehab that he's got to have that question answered.
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Unread postby swerb » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:50 am

I'm all for this, as my thoughts on the QB position echo JB's.

But is there any chance of Culpepper actually wanting to come here?
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Unread postby jb » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:53 am

Swerb wrote:I'm all for this, as my thoughts on the QB position echo JB's.

But is there any chance of Culpepper actually wanting to come here?


I'd think his options have to be very, very limted for all the reasons the detractors bring up.

Plus, he has 8 Ball, that spankin' new OL, and some talented receivers, albeint with limited depth.

Where does he hae a better shot IF he wants to start?

About the only reason he wouldn't come IMhO is if he sees himself in a no win situation with the fans calliing for Brady the second he looks the wrong way.
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:04 am

JB, gotta rack ya. Agreed 100% with the long post upthread.
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Unread postby pup » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:49 pm

So the resaon that he stinks is not good enough?

Last two seasons:

11 Games
63% completion
7.1 YPA
8 TD
15 INTs
8 Fumbles

That is bad. What we have is also bad, but two wrongs don't make a right.
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Unread postby mistero » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:28 pm

JB, the idea that Dorsey is a mentor doesn't come from me. Quinn said so, Frye said so and Anderson said so. The guy knows how to play even though his body can't match his brain. No doubt in my mind coaching is in his future.

Anyways , I am pretty sure Crennel and Savage see that Dorsey as Quinn's eyes and ears. Those two are locks for the roster.

Now you want to bring Culpepper in to knock both Anderson and Frye off the roster. Whatever... Make it a 3 way for the temp starters job. I just don't think Culpepper can do it physically. The guy just wanted to lay down and die in Miami. He wanted the IR in the worst way. He's lost his heart. So now he's ready to regain his 2003 form? I don't buy it.

Here's the down side for me. Culpepper knocks DA and Chuck off the roster. We lose our long term back up. We lose the value of a solid home grown number 2 for a pipe dream 1 yr rental.

Bring him in though if you want. I'd like to see him against DA in a fair fight.
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Unread postby swerb » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:55 pm

Mistero, no way in hell Dorsey makes this roster. I just can't see it.
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Unread postby mistero » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:06 pm

I wouldn't
keep him but I think the coaching staff is
attached to the of filed stuff he contributes.

He serves a purpose. I would cut McGinest 5 times before I would cut Dorsey.
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Unread postby BruceK » Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:13 pm

Well, then make him assistant QB coach, or Administrative Assistant to the Offensive Co-ordinator, or something like that. But there's only 53 spots on the roster. They are too scarce a resource to waste on Dorfman.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:06 pm

JB wrote:
I'd think his options have to be very, very limted for all the reasons the detractors bring up.

Plus, he has 8 Ball, that spankin' new OL, and some talented receivers, albeint with limited depth.

Where does he hae a better shot IF he wants to start?

About the only reason he wouldn't come IMhO is if he sees himself in a no win situation with the fans calliing for Brady the second he looks the wrong way.


Good points JB.

Culpepper isn't exactly going to be getting huge offers at this point and many teams are set at QB. He might have a shot in Carolina but he'd have more competition between Delhomme and Carr. Atlanta would be a viable option if Vick gets suspended. Would he go back to the Vikings? Maybe if the Bears want competition for Grossman, but I think he has that job for better or worse at this point. Maybe the Lion, but I think we've got a better team at this point. KC to compete against the guy who drove Green out? The Raiders? Another team Cleveland looks better than.

I'd say the Browns look like the ideal spot if Culpepper is healthy and wants to prove himself. He'd likely get a shorter deal, maybe even only a one year deal, so he can cash in on a good performance if he has one. No one else in the AFC North is a real option unless McNair goes down int he near future or Carson Palmer pulls a Bengal and get arrested.

I don't see why not. I think the Browns may have a pretty good set of receivers if Braylon matures. Lewis is out to prove himself. The line looks like the best we've had in years and it could be even better is LeChuck can play at all this year, even at RG. I believe the defense should do well enough and will improve if the offense improves because it'll spend less time on the field.

I loved the Quinn pick and still do. If we can't get a vet like Culpepper then I'm all for starting Quinn. I think he's better equipped to handle it than Couch or Frye. It'd still be nice to have a vet, especially a guy who's an athletic freak like Culpepper. He won't be the same as he was before, but I still suspect the arm will be there and I could see him bombing to Braylon and loving KW2. Jurevicius will see plenty of action and Cribbs will be well liked out of the slot. Lewis can set up the passes with effective runs and keep the other team off balance and I hope Jerome Harrison can step up as a change of pace back.

If I'm Phil Savage I got hard after Culpepper if he gets released. I also try to get Jamal Lewis to talk to him. I get KW2 to talk to him. I tell him that we'll have an open competition and that Quinn won't get the job unless he obviously wins it.

If Culpepper signs a one or two year contract with a small enough signing bonus then he won't be a huge cap hit and he'll get a chance to use the Browns to show off for a big payday in the future. Other locales will likely keep him on the bench or have little chance of winning even if he starts.
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Unread postby furls » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:59 pm

Culpepper isn't exactly going to be getting huge offers


He'll get better offers than Cleveland, not necessarily in terms of talent or what have you, but he will get better situations. Culpepper still thinks he can play (for some reason) and is not going to go to a team that is getting ready to break the bank on its franchise QB of the future.

He is going to go somewhere with a weak starting QB (AND NO PLAN FOR THE FUTURE) and take the job.

Buffalo, Washington, and Jacksonville make more sense than the Browns. Culpepper has never really been all that concerned with winning so, I am not all that interested. He is not a "mentor," so we really don't need him.
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Unread postby jb » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:28 am

mistero wrote:JB, the idea that Dorsey is a mentor doesn't come from me. Quinn said so, Frye said so and Anderson said so.

snip...

Here's the down side for me. Culpepper knocks DA and Chuck off the roster. We lose our long term back up. We lose the value of a solid home grown number 2 for a pipe dream 1 yr rental.

Bring him in though if you want. I'd like to see him against DA in a fair fight.


Dawg, didn't mean to diss yah and still don't, but what about Dorsey being a vet would tweedle frick and tweedle frack know squat about from first-hand experience? Some a these pups and what they say is butt the sound and fury IMO.

And as for Daunte "costing" us DA or Frye if Daunte beats them out?

Well, if he is the player Pup says he is, he won't.

If he is better, why not?

You expect those guys to resurface like a Cleveland Indians' player that the arrogant Wedge runs out of town to actually be something?
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Unread postby jb » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:59 am

Pup wrote:So the resaon that he stinks is not good enough?

Last two seasons:

11 Games
63% completion
7.1 YPA
8 TD
15 INTs
8 Fumbles

That is bad. What we have is also bad, but two wrongs don't make a right.


I agree Buddy, those aren't stellar. They bite.

But Daunte was injured and it wasn't always so. Then again, if he shows up and is this Daunte, you cut his ass and you are no worse off than when you strated. If he is better, then you gained something that cost nada.

BTW - When you thorw out stats, maybe you should throw them out for both?

Guess who?

11 last games
65%
6.59 YPA
9 TDs (Thank God for Oakland or it is 6 passing TD's)
13 INTs
6 Fumbles

You have two very comparable bad QB's w/ bad stats. So here's Dennis Hopper giving us the pop quiz:

Assuming the real plan is waiting for Brady to have a light bulb go on, do you want to consider the guy who once did it and puts these numbers up due to having a knee like spaghetti, or a guy who has never done squat, but who may be young enough to improve, or maybe not (which is what I now think).

As for to wrongs not making a right? Good point.

So my question is "then what" ? Only DA makes any sense, but this discussion makes me think more and more the Browns are blowing it by not going out and getting a decent vet QB .
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Unread postby jfiling » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:51 pm

JB wrote:So my question is "then what" ? Only DA makes any sense, but this discussion makes me think more and more the Browns are blowing it by not going out and getting a decent vet QB .


Agreed and agreed. Great points.
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Unread postby pup » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:19 pm

BTW - When you thorw out stats, maybe you should throw them out for both?


And what, leave you with no room to retort :eek: :o :-o

Assuming the real plan is waiting for Brady to have a light bulb go on, do you want to consider the guy who once did it and puts these numbers up due to having a knee like spaghetti, or a guy who has never done squat, but who may be young enough to improve, or maybe not (which is what I now think).



You have warmed me up to the idea. If the question comes down to who is more liely to perform, the answer has to be Culpepper, just because he has done it before. My contention is just that the answer is more liekly, neither. If that is the case, then why cloud the issue even more?
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Unread postby jb » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:49 pm

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Unread postby FUDU » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:22 pm

From JB's link:

Odds: Slim to none. It's baptism by fire for Frye, Quinn ... and Crennel this year.

I suppose I could post that line in the open competition thread?

Guess it isn't.

A name, err initials seems to be missing.
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