Text Size

Cleveland Browns & The NFL

There is NO EFFING WAY....

Talk Browns football and discuss the NFL here.

Moderators: peeker643, jb, swerb, pup

There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:52 pm

I pay Alex Mack $10m/year for multiple years to play that position. No way.

And I'm not a Ross Tucker fan, but.....

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2 ... 2U29fuAJSR
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22795
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:56 pm

It sounds like basically a 2 year deal at about $10.5 per. Either he opts out after year two or the team replaces him.

Not sure I'd do that deal either, but not overly upset about it either since losing him would just create another hole.

Curious what the cap hit would be if they cut him after the '14 season (after they break in his replacement, of course)?
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4398
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:42 pm

Hikohadon wrote:It sounds like basically a 2 year deal at about $10.5 per. Either he opts out after year two or the team replaces him.

Not sure I'd do that deal either, but not overly upset about it either since losing him would just create another hole.

Curious what the cap hit would be if they cut him after the '14 season (after they break in his replacement, of course)?


Interested to see how the Jags structure it too.

But the hole created there just doesn't stress me out. They can get one of the two or three top collegiate centers in the 3rd round if they so choose. And those guys are all freaking bright because that's now the key to playing that position.

Hell, you could take Jake Matthews at #4 like you probably should anyway and have him at C. A lot of people think that's his best position. I don't want to use that resource for that purpose if I don't have to but I'd rather do that than see Mack costing my team $30million for two seasons when the Jags load up the front of that freaking deal and offer him an out after two years. If you did take Matthews you get a center next season or year after and move matthews if you so choose.

Like I said elsewhere on Mack: I'm not offering you $75 for a $35 steak just because I have $300 in my wallet. I'll find a $25 or $30 steak for $25 or $30 and be just fine. The hole will be filled. Has to be or there will be no snap of the football.

Just my two cents.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22795
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:39 pm

Can't disagree with your take, I'm conflicted on the whole thing.

One hand:
*Not sure they win any more games this year with Mack than they do without him.
*Center is more replaceable than a lot of other positions.
*Not so concerned about overpaying in 2014, but the 2015 cap hit might be another story with the other contracts they need to work on.

Other hand:
*Creating a hole and then having to use a high pick on a lineman because of that hole is like giving away a Mack (the LB version) or Watkins.
*Mack might do well in a zone blocking scheme.
*Have plenty of cap space to eat this in 2014, the future can be dealt with.
*I think Farmer looks like a fool if he loses Mack b/c he wasn't willing to pay the extra $1.3 mil to Franchise him. What, $10 is doable but $11.3 hell no?
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4398
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:42 pm

Hikohadon wrote:Can't disagree with your take, I'm conflicted on the whole thing.

One hand:
*Not sure they win any more games this year with Mack than they do without him.
*Center is more replaceable than a lot of other positions.
*Not so concerned about overpaying in 2014, but the 2015 cap hit might be another story with the other contracts they need to work on.

Other hand:
*Creating a hole and then having to use a high pick on a lineman because of that hole is like giving away a Mack (the LB version) or Watkins.
*Mack might do well in a zone blocking scheme.
*Have plenty of cap space to eat this in 2014, the future can be dealt with.
*I think Farmer looks like a fool if he loses Mack b/c he wasn't willing to pay the extra $1.3 mil to Franchise him. What, $10 is doable but $11.3 hell no?



I would not do it as stated above. But I believe they will. And I believe a lot of it will be face-saving. Farmer's and Jimmy's. That was bad move when they didn't franchise him. Could have had him at stupid money on their terms for a couple years had they not shit themselves.

But they will sure as hell tell you they wanted him all along at whatever price they had to pay and that for the player's sake and because of their respect for him, they let the market determine his value.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22795
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:58 pm

Ian Rapoport‏@RapSheet·13 mins
Here is #Jaguars offer sheet Alex Mack will be signing tomorrow: 5 years, $42M. It’s $18M over 2 with player option after ’15. Can’t tag him


Ian Rapoport‏@RapSheet·12 mins
Because of the timing of the void after 2 years of Alex Mack’s deal, the team — Browns or Jags — can’t tag him after 2015. That’s big


Ross Tucker‏@RossTuckerNFL·5 mins
Based on @RapSheet report of $18M over 2 years for Mack the Jags did Browns a huge favor for '15


Far more palatable than I thought. So yes, I'll do it now for $9m/year. Let him walk after two when he's 31 or 32 if he thinks he can do better than 9m/yr.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22795
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:09 pm

Mike Garafolo‏@MikeGarafolo·16 mins
Now here's another wrinkle: Mack gets $8 million FULLY guaranteed in Year 3 if he doesn't void after 2 years. So that's up to $26m in gtd $.


getting worse...
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22795
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:47 pm

This natural coozy comes free with every Miller Time
Image
User avatar
Erie Warrior
Goose Slayer
 
Posts: 6537
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:50 pm
Location: Hampton, VA
Favorite Player: 1995 Indians
Least Favorite Player: Global Warming

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:08 pm

This thread is much improved with an appearance by. Teddy KGB. Always appreciated.

Anyways, one thing remember is the cap now has a floor - 89% of the aggregate cap total 2013-2016.

The Browns were way under last year, and are on their way to being under again this year. Yes, you need to save $$$ to re-sign Haden and Gordon and not sure who else is worth a fuck but there's money available and they have to spend it.

Not saying Mack deserves what he is getting but not signing him creates yet another PR nightmare for cost plusin' man. They'll sign him to show us mopes that "fans deserve a winner".
I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever.
- CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team
User avatar
mattvan1
 
Posts: 3720
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:41 pm
Location: Houston

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:57 am

No reason to create another hole. Center is an important position, and they have the chance to resign a good one.

Oline is still the most important unit on the field. If they can get a guard worth a damn, then they can pick up RBs off the scrap heap and be successful. I have no issues with Matthews or Robinson at 4, not flashy but will translate to wins.
This natural coozy comes free with every Miller Time
Image
User avatar
Erie Warrior
Goose Slayer
 
Posts: 6537
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:50 pm
Location: Hampton, VA
Favorite Player: 1995 Indians
Least Favorite Player: Global Warming

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:56 am

peeker643 wrote:I pay Alex Mack $10m/year for multiple years to play that position. No way.

And I'm not a Ross Tucker fan, but.....

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2 ... 2U29fuAJSR



SD:

Need some help with your math.

The transition tag insured a two year rental.

10.5 million this year and 12 million next year if we were forced to franchise tag his
Fat ass.

Meantime we draft a center for future and finish with this whore.

SoulDawg
SoulDawg74
 
Posts: 3103
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:36 pm

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:28 am

When we win the Superbowl this year with Mack at center will any of us REALLY care about the money?
Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect.
"I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

2011 TCF Stratomatic Champ
User avatar
FUDU
 
Posts: 13359
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:02 am
Favorite Player: Me
Least Favorite Player: You

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:54 am

peeker643 wrote:
Mike Garafolo‏@MikeGarafolo·16 mins
Now here's another wrinkle: Mack gets $8 million FULLY guaranteed in Year 3 if he doesn't void after 2 years. So that's up to $26m in gtd $.


getting worse...

That third year actually brings the average down. Assuming he stays, which I don't at all.

As SD pointed out, getting a guy for 9m/per for 2 seems like a win for a team that was willing to go 10m this year and prob more next year with a tag (if they wanted to keep him).

Now, whether or not they should have been willing to pay that much...
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4398
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:13 pm

Whatever. Not dismissing you guys but I would have rather franchised him for two years and been done when he turns 32 or so than let the fucking Jaguars dictate the terms of my contract.

It's just bad business to pay this guy like he's a HoF player.

He's very good, he's not great.

Max Unger is similar player and makes $4.9m/year for his All Pro/Pro Bowl type play. Mack is worth twice that? No, he is most definitely not.

They won 24 games in five years with Mack at C and a HoF LT two doors down. I love building a line and I'm witcha on it. But you can build a line without Mack. People couldn't name 8 starting NFL centers. Not even 6 on good offensive teams.

Mack should get every dime he can from someone.

Just wouldn't be me.

If he's back that's fine. I think Browns resign him regardless of numbers and terms because of the face saving, PR thing. But it's bad business and I can almost picture agents for Haden, Gordon, Taylor, et al, rubbing their hands together in anticipation.

I guess I should be focused on actually improving now before worrying about what this does long term. But I refer myself back to the fact that they've won 24 games in 5 years with this indispensable pillar. And the fact that the other 60% of the line is not up to snuff does not mean you overpay by 100% or so one of the two guys who can play.

YMMV
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22795
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:04 pm

That's a lot of cabbage.

The deal pays Mack $10 million this season, and then $8 million in each of the next four seasons. The first three seasons, all $26 million worth, are guaranteed, meaning Mack received the highest guarantee of any free agent this offseason.


The deal has some unique elements -- most notably, that Mack can void the final three years of the deal with the promise that he will not receive the team's franchise or transition tag. So if Mack is unhappy after two years or wants out, he can void the deal.

The deal also includes a no-trade provision and prohibits the team from tagging him in the future.


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10767 ... le-jaguars
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22795
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:30 pm

Max Unger also plays for the Super Bowl Champs.

Contracts tend to be more favorable for the top tier teams than they are for dumpster fires. If you're the Cleveland Browns (or Jacksonville Jags, for that matter), usually you gotta pay these guys above market to convince them to jump in the flames.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4398
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:47 pm

Hikohadon wrote:Max Unger also plays for the Super Bowl Champs.

Contracts tend to be more favorable for the top tier teams than they are for dumpster fires. If you're the Cleveland Browns (or Jacksonville Jags, for that matter), usually you gotta pay these guys above market to convince them to jump in the flames.


Not double an All-Pro's salary, Chris.

But that's done and matched. Not going to complain about keeping our own talented guys here. It's just stupid money for that spot on the field.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22795
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby OldDawg » Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:52 am

Way.
"The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go." -- Winston Churchill
User avatar
OldDawg
 
Posts: 3885
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:05 pm
Favorite Player: Mark Price
Least Favorite Player: LePunk Jims

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:55 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Max Unger also plays for the Super Bowl Champs.

Contracts tend to be more favorable for the top tier teams than they are for dumpster fires. If you're the Cleveland Browns (or Jacksonville Jags, for that matter), usually you gotta pay these guys above market to convince them to jump in the flames.


Not double an All-Pro's salary, Chris.

But that's done and matched. Not going to complain about keeping our own talented guys here. It's just stupid money for that spot on the field.

There's certainly something to that. But since this contract averages 8.4 (for the whole 5) and Ryan Khalil averages 8.1... my guess is Unger might be on the horn with his agent soon.
It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
User avatar
Hikohadon
 
Posts: 4398
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
Least Favorite Player: Gin

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby HoodooMan » Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:52 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:


:thumb up:

And this wasn't $70 for a $35 steak. This was $40 for a $35 steak with the only alternative being $0 for a punch in the nuts.
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
User avatar
HoodooMan
The King
 
Posts: 1735
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:04 pm
Favorite Player: Big_Lu
Least Favorite Player: Foldtop Sandwich Bag

Re: There is NO EFFING WAY....

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:02 am

HoodooMan wrote:
Erie Warrior wrote:


:thumb up:

And this wasn't $70 for a $35 steak. This was $40 for a $35 steak with the only alternative being $0 for a punch in the nuts.


Anything with a Rounders reference and video is good with me.

And it's too fucking much money for Mack. But yeah, that's probably penance for hiring assholes like Banner and Lombardi. I'd imagine Jimmy's gonna have to hand out a lot more cash to the kids to say he's sorry for leaving them with the two dickhead uncles.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22795
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson


Return to Cleveland Browns & The NFL

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 181 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest