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What Have We Learned?

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What Have We Learned?

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:37 am

Signing Dansby, Whitner, Tate, Hawkins, etc.

Tells me we're not taking Khalil Mack, for one. Lots of $$ at LB spot between Krueger, Mingo, Dansby,et al. They like Sheard as well.

To me you don't take Mack unless you get rid of Mingo which is why I asked a couple weeks ago. Not to play inside though he could.

Probably be gone anyway.

And I don't think they're taking a QB. Just not thrilled with the options there. Not at #4.

Personally I think first three picks are Bortles, Watkins and Clowney, in that order.
So if you don't take Mack I think that puts them in the..... wait for it...Robinson or Matthews camp. Think they'd love to trade down if possible though, but if not I think they take Robinson.

I think Matthews is more versatile and could play anywhere on OL so I wouldn't be upset there.

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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Govbarney » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:12 pm

Id be fine with Robinson , shores up the right side of the line , plus he is the heir apparent to Joe Thomas. I have always been a fan of taking the best player off the board as opposed to drafting for need, and I think its either going to be Watkins or Robinson as the best player available when the Browns are up.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby swerb » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:17 pm

Love the Whitner for Ward (overrated) swap. Less enthused about D'Qwell for Dansby. D'Qwell is one of those you don't know what you had till he's gone guys to me. Evidenced by the feeding frenzy of interest in him in FA. They needed to do something at RB in FA, and Tate is about as good as you could have hoped for. Was very happy they passed on Schaub. Last thing we need is another QB not good enough to win a SB.

If they pass on Bridgewater at #4 ... to me it would be a colossal mistake. He's not an Andrew Luck level prospect, but I believe he is almost as safe a pick as Luck. See next to no chance this kid is not a very good starting QB in this league, that will only get better. Can throw the deep ball, can run a little. Smart. Hard worker. And yes, I read everything about his pro day.

With 3 of the top 36 picks, to me, coming out of this draft without one of those top three quarterbacks would be an epic fail.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:45 pm

swerb wrote:Love the Whitner for Ward (overrated) swap. Less enthused about D'Qwell for Dansby. D'Qwell is one of those you don't know what you had till he's gone guys to me. Evidenced by the feeding frenzy of interest in him in FA. They needed to do something at RB in FA, and Tate is about as good as you could have hoped for. Was very happy they passed on Schaub. Last thing we need is another QB not good enough to win a SB.

If they pass on Bridgewater at #4 ... to me it would be a colossal mistake. He's not an Andrew Luck level prospect, but I believe he is almost as safe a pick as Luck. See next to no chance this kid is not a very good starting QB in this league, that will only get better. Can throw the deep ball, can run a little. Smart. Hard worker. And yes, I read everything about his pro day.

With 3 of the top 36 picks, to me, coming out of this draft without one of those top three quarterbacks would be an epic fail.


Agree with the Pro Day stuff. Nothing would change either way for me about Teddy B because of Pro Day. A "safe" pick I agree with. It's the upside that scares me with him.

If I'm going safe I'm going Matthews or Robinson and looking at a ten year All Pro. Maybe more with the Matthews genes.

And I think Dansby is there more because he's a mauler and DQ was not. That's more Pettine style.

Gonna be interesting and changing for next 6 weeks.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby StewieG » Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:17 pm

I'm not a huge fan of any of the QBs in this draft. Bridgewater's fine, but like Peeker said I worry about his upside. Bortles has the upside, but I think he's far from a sure thing. Watkins is my preferred choice, but Robinson or Matthews would be great as well. With the Texans exiling Schaub to Oakland, you've gotta think they'll go QB at 1. Bortles or Bridgewater?

From what I've heard, Pettine likes his safeties to be in coverage, and Ward doesn't fit that. I like the move to wHitner. I like DQ, and by all accounts he's a great guy. But he's always been better in the 4-3. And Dansby's really good.

I have no idea what the Browns will do at QB, but if it were me I'd take a guy in round 2 or 3, let them sit, and see what it is you have in Hoyer. I'm not convinced he's the guy either, but it'll be nice to know.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:23 pm

swerb wrote:Love the Whitner for Ward (overrated) swap. Less enthused about D'Qwell for Dansby. D'Qwell is one of those you don't know what you had till he's gone guys to me. Evidenced by the feeding frenzy of interest in him in FA. They needed to do something at RB in FA, and Tate is about as good as you could have hoped for. Was very happy they passed on Schaub. Last thing we need is another QB not good enough to win a SB.

If they pass on Bridgewater at #4 ... to me it would be a colossal mistake. He's not an Andrew Luck level prospect, but I believe he is almost as safe a pick as Luck. See next to no chance this kid is not a very good starting QB in this league, that will only get better. Can throw the deep ball, can run a little. Smart. Hard worker. And yes, I read everything about his pro day.

With 3 of the top 36 picks, to me, coming out of this draft without one of those top three quarterbacks would be an epic fail.


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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:30 am

swerb wrote:D'Qwell is one of those you don't know what you had till he's gone guys

Yep... I agree, you never notice him on the field.

swerb wrote:If they pass on Bridgewater at #4 ... to me it would be a colossal mistake. He's not an Andrew Luck level prospect, but I believe he is almost as safe a pick as Luck. See next to no chance this kid is not a very good starting QB in this league, that will only get better. Can throw the deep ball, can run a little. Smart. Hard worker. And yes, I read everything about his pro day.

I actually DO agree with all that.

swerb wrote:With 3 of the top 36 picks, to me, coming out of this draft without one of those top three quarterbacks would be an epic fail.

The only one I'm cool with is Bridgewater. Coming out of the draft with Bortles or especially Manziel would be an epic fail.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:15 pm

peeker643 wrote:Signing Dansby, Whitner, Tate, Hawkins, etc.

Tells me we're not taking Khalil Mack, for one. Lots of $$ at LB spot between Krueger, Mingo, Dansby,et al. They like Sheard as well.

To me you don't take Mack unless you get rid of Mingo which is why I asked a couple weeks ago. Not to play inside though he could.

Probably be gone anyway.

And I don't think they're taking a QB. Just not thrilled with the options there. Not at #4.

Personally I think first three picks are Bortles, Watkins and Clowney, in that order.
So if you don't take Mack I think that puts them in the..... wait for it...Robinson or Matthews camp. Think they'd love to trade down if possible though, but if not I think they take Robinson.

I think Matthews is more versatile and could play anywhere on OL so I wouldn't be upset there.

Flame away ;-) ;) :wink:


What have we learned? That FA is somewhere between meh and feh, regardless if it's the evil Banbardi or the guy everyone wanted running the show.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:11 pm

I don't think this FA haul is too bad. It's hard to say before we see what we come out of the draft with. I'm still on Clowney, Watkind, Bridgewater...in that order. Worst case scenario is those three are off the board. I d rather take Mack or one of the tackles than Bortles or Manziel.

I was surprised that Shaub went for a 6th rounder. I wasn't interested in him but jeez...has his stock really fallen that far? And how about the cliff that Pryor stepped off of last season? Is that dude's career already over?
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:14 pm

I wasn't a proponent of signing Tate at all. I thought spending money on the top RB free agent was a stupid way to spend resources. But damn is that a cheap contract... 2 years $7 mil....

Good thing Holmie is out of here. We'd either have TR still, or we would have bid against outsells and have Tate for $28 mil guaranteed over 4 years or something.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby justmebd » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:37 pm

Passing on Schaub is not a huge deal. What did he actually win in Texas?

For the price, I wouldn't have been upset, but not exactly wringing my hands in frustration over Schaub going to Texas.

As for the departure of Ward and Nyquill -- again, what exactly did we win with those guys?

While the team now technically is "older," who cares? We switched out "guys." That's about it.

The only signing I scratch my head about is Trufant since Special Teams is basically being legislated out of existence and he's over the age of 30.

But with a rookie GM and a rookie HC, what could POSSIBLY go wrong? (Note, this is not an endorsement of any of the former regimes.)
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:39 pm

motherscratcher wrote:I don't think this FA haul is too bad. It's hard to say before we see what we come out of the draft with. I'm still on Clowney, Watkind, Bridgewater...in that order. Worst case scenario is those three are off the board. I d rather take Mack or one of the tackles than Bortles or Manziel.

I was surprised that Shaub went for a 6th rounder. I wasn't interested in him but jeez...has his stock really fallen that far? And how about the cliff that Pryor stepped off of last season? Is that dude's career already over?


It's not too bad. But it's not a lot different than what Banner did last year. It's FA, and when you're not close to sniffing respectability, FA has far less impact than when you need to add a veteran piece of the puzzle.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Govbarney » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:06 pm

peeker643 wrote:
swerb wrote:....Less enthused about D'Qwell for Dansby. D'Qwell is one of those you don't know what you had till he's gone guys to me. Evidenced by the feeding frenzy of interest in him in FA....
...And I think Dansby is there more because he's a mauler and DQ was not. That's more Pettine style.

Gonna be interesting and changing for next 6 weeks.


Agree with Peeks. Bottom line is , D'Qwell is a good 4-3 MLB ,he has made and will continue to make a fine career tackling RBs past the line of scrimmage. Problem is Browns dont play the 4-3 base , they play the 3-4 , and need a ILB who is capable of dropping into coverage as well as rushing the passer, Dansby fits that mold , D'Qwell was never comfortable in that role.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:05 am

They better pick up another RB somewhere, Tate is likely to go on IR during neck stretches in OTAs.

The RB draft class is watery sauce- maybe grab Seastrunk/Johnson/Sankey in a later round, but I don't believe any of them will be a 15-20 carry guy.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:46 am

Erie Warrior wrote:They better pick up another RB somewhere, Tate is likely to go on IR during neck stretches in OTAs.

The RB draft class is watery sauce- maybe grab Seastrunk/Johnson/Sankey in a later round, but I don't believe any of them will be a 15-20 carry guy.

I actually feel like the draft is chock full of RB's that could be decent solutions for a few years.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Nicastro13 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:58 am

Hikohadon wrote:
Erie Warrior wrote:They better pick up another RB somewhere, Tate is likely to go on IR during neck stretches in OTAs.

The RB draft class is watery sauce- maybe grab Seastrunk/Johnson/Sankey in a later round, but I don't believe any of them will be a 15-20 carry guy.

I actually feel like the draft is chock full of RB's that could be decent solutions for a few years.



I agree with this too, and would love to see Tre mason sitting there in the third with one of our picks, He'd be perfect in this offense. Most Mocks have him around there.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:53 am

Abundance is only good if it's goodness that is abundant.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:33 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:Abundance is only good if it's goodness that is abundant.

Agree, but I think the goodness IS abundant. Tre Mason in the 3rd would be Sweeeeet, that guy's electric.

(And now I just got the Electric Slide stuck in my head, dammit.)
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:38 pm

justmebd wrote:Passing on Schaub is not a huge deal. What did he actually win in Texas?

For the price, I wouldn't have been upset, but not exactly wringing my hands in frustration over Schaub going to Texas.

As for the departure of Ward and Nyquill -- again, what exactly did we win with those guys?

While the team now technically is "older," who cares? We switched out "guys." That's about it.

The only signing I scratch my head about is Trufant since Special Teams is basically being legislated out of existence and he's over the age of 30.

But with a rookie GM and a rookie HC, what could POSSIBLY go wrong? (Note, this is not an endorsement of any of the former regimes.)



Look, I'm not gonna go apeshit about not getting Matt Scaub.

But to answer the question of what he won in Texas, I would say games.

Which is what the Browns would've won more of the past 5 years if they didn't send a hump out behind center every Sunday.

If you're gonna start to build some sort of culture, having a cipher for a QB is no way to start.

Let the contenders quibble about whether their veteran QB is good enough to win the bowl. The Browns, well, it'd behoove them to take a LONG look at anyone that doesn't BLOW.

Again, I don't wanna reach in the draft or grossly overpay, but man, if they start the season with someone I know at least understands what the hell is going on out there, I'd feel a little better.

The Raiders QB situation is now superior to the Browns.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:19 pm

leadpipe wrote: The Raiders QB situation is now superior to the Browns.


Just let that roll around in your heads for a while. Scary and true.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby CleSportsTruth » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:19 pm

peeker643 wrote:Signing Dansby, Whitner, Tate, Hawkins, etc.

Tells me we're not taking Khalil Mack, for one. Lots of $$ at LB spot between Krueger, Mingo, Dansby,et al. They like Sheard as well.

To me you don't take Mack unless you get rid of Mingo which is why I asked a couple weeks ago. Not to play inside though he could.

Probably be gone anyway.

And I don't think they're taking a QB. Just not thrilled with the options there. Not at #4.

Personally I think first three picks are Bortles, Watkins and Clowney, in that order.
So if you don't take Mack I think that puts them in the..... wait for it...Robinson or Matthews camp. Think they'd love to trade down if possible though, but if not I think they take Robinson.

I think Matthews is more versatile and could play anywhere on OL so I wouldn't be upset there.

Flame away ;-) ;) :wink:


I agree that's how they're thinking. Simply put, they think they're ready to win.

What it boils down to is Hoyer. If you are pretty well convinced in him, then taking a QB early is silly. I... have my doubts.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:12 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
leadpipe wrote: The Raiders QB situation is now superior to the Browns.


Just let that roll around in your heads for a while. Scary and true.


It is. But it's not like it's a race where the Browns can't catch up and pass. Probably 3 or 4 QB's from this class will be better in 2015 than Schaub (which ones, I don't know).

One does not sign Matt Schaub at this point in his career and drop the mic and walk off stage.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:44 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
leadpipe wrote: The Raiders QB situation is now superior to the Browns.


Just let that roll around in your heads for a while. Scary and true.


It is. But it's not like it's a race where the Browns can't catch up and pass. Probably 3 or 4 QB's from this class will be better in 2015 than Schaub (which ones, I don't know).

One does not sign Matt Schaub at this point in his career and drop the mic and walk off stage.


I would have had no issue at all with the Browns SIGNING Schaub. That would entail him being cut by Texans and thoeretically far less expensive than his contract actually was. But I'm not paying what he was due from Texans for Matt Schaub. That was $15million for 'better than Browns got'. No fucking way am I trading for Schaub AND that contract. And yeah, he helped them out by re-doing some of it, but that was after the deal.

So the Raiders paid a 6th round pick for the right to trade for Schaub at $15million per year and the hope that he'd re-do his deal. I'm not upset the Browns didn't make that deal.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:41 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
leadpipe wrote: The Raiders QB situation is now superior to the Browns.


Just let that roll around in your heads for a while. Scary and true.


It is. But it's not like it's a race where the Browns can't catch up and pass. Probably 3 or 4 QB's from this class will be better in 2015 than Schaub (which ones, I don't know).

One does not sign Matt Schaub at this point in his career and drop the mic and walk off stage.


I would have had no issue at all with the Browns SIGNING Schaub. That would entail him being cut by Texans and thoeretically far less expensive than his contract actually was. But I'm not paying what he was due from Texans for Matt Schaub. That was $15million for 'better than Browns got'. No fucking way am I trading for Schaub AND that contract. And yeah, he helped them out by re-doing some of it, but that was after the deal.

So the Raiders paid a 6th round pick for the right to trade for Schaub at $15million per year and the hope that he'd re-do his deal. I'm not upset the Browns didn't make that deal.

I'm not upset they didn't trade for him. Just commenting on what LP wrote. End of March 2014 the Browns QB situation leaves a lot to be desired. And by that I mean it's pretty much fucked. No doubt it will improve by September, if only because it cannot get any worse.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:27 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
leadpipe wrote: The Raiders QB situation is now superior to the Browns.


Just let that roll around in your heads for a while. Scary and true.


It is. But it's not like it's a race where the Browns can't catch up and pass. Probably 3 or 4 QB's from this class will be better in 2015 than Schaub (which ones, I don't know).

One does not sign Matt Schaub at this point in his career and drop the mic and walk off stage.


I would have had no issue at all with the Browns SIGNING Schaub. That would entail him being cut by Texans and thoeretically far less expensive than his contract actually was. But I'm not paying what he was due from Texans for Matt Schaub. That was $15million for 'better than Browns got'. No fucking way am I trading for Schaub AND that contract. And yeah, he helped them out by re-doing some of it, but that was after the deal.

So the Raiders paid a 6th round pick for the right to trade for Schaub at $15million per year and the hope that he'd re-do his deal. I'm not upset the Browns didn't make that deal.

I'm not upset they didn't trade for him. Just commenting on what LP wrote. End of March 2014 the Browns QB situation leaves a lot to be desired. And by that I mean it's pretty much fucked. No doubt it will improve by September, if only because it cannot get any worse.


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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:34 pm

mattvan1 wrote:I'm not upset they didn't trade for him. Just commenting on what LP wrote. End of March 2014 the Browns QB situation leaves a lot to be desired. And by that I mean it's pretty much fucked. No doubt it will improve by September, if only because it cannot get any worse.


WHAT??? We've got Mr. Two Games and The Guy That Can Throw Footballs In Trash Cans.

Likely, we're looking at Mr. Two Games, Mr. Draft Pick, and Mr. Grossman come TC. Which is super-unexciting but certainly has the potential to be > Schaub if Mr. Draft Pick is decent or Mr. Two Games turns out to be better than the festering mass that preceded him.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:41 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
leadpipe wrote: The Raiders QB situation is now superior to the Browns.


Just let that roll around in your heads for a while. Scary and true.


It is. But it's not like it's a race where the Browns can't catch up and pass. Probably 3 or 4 QB's from this class will be better in 2015 than Schaub (which ones, I don't know).

One does not sign Matt Schaub at this point in his career and drop the mic and walk off stage.


I'd be willing to take that bet - that is, that 3-4 QB's from this class exceed the career of Matt Schaub, or will be better than Matt Schaub's average career year in 2015.

Again, I ain't here to blow Schaub, nor do I wanna break the bank for him, but he had a stretch where he was a very capable NFL QB, and when you look back at the history of the draft, one that produces at least 4 very capable NFL starting QB's isn't an annual event.

And Matt is expounding on my overall point, that is, before we as Cleveland Browns fans dismiss the Matt Schaubs of the world, we need to take a look at our current QB roster.

Bottom line, we all see what's coming, Hoyer, the drafted rookie and some Jason Campbell type veteran. I'd feel better with a guy that's had some recent starting success in there somewhere.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:47 pm

By the way, in regard of what you have to pay - Charlie F'ing Whitehurst signed for 2 and 8. There is absolutely nothing on record that indicated that guy can help you win games. More importantly, he hasn't won games. A guy that has won games, and played pretty well, that isn't 55 years old, is gonna cost you.

The only way Schaubs contract is bad is if last year was not a total deviation, cause if he goes back to around carer norms, I'd argue it's a very good contract.

Big if, but again, much less of an if than the ifs the Browns have been running out there for 15 years.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:27 pm

Well, in a league that has the vast majority of its teams searching desperately for a QB they can win with, none of them offered so much as 5th round pick for Schaub. Whether that's money driven or performance-based, I don't know.

But it's telling...
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:32 pm

peeker643 wrote:Well, in a league that has the vast majority of its teams searching desperately for a QB they can win with, none of them offered so much as 5th round pick for Schaub. Whether that's money driven or performance-based, I don't know.

But it's telling...


I think this is kinda to my point - with the Browns QB situation, I might be inclined to take that shot - a late round pick and financial responsibility that I don't think is outrageous. It's one thing if Schaub was a "first day" free agent - all first day free agents you're going to grossly over pay for.

Perhaps many experts around the league feel last year was very real, which, if that's the case I'm dead wrong.

My fear is that we don't even know if anyone on the Browns can be better Schaubs horrific 2013.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:11 pm

peeker643 wrote:Tells me we're not taking Khalil Mack, for one. Lots of $$ at LB spot between Krueger, Mingo, Dansby,et al. They like Sheard as well.

To me you don't take Mack unless you get rid of Mingo which is why I asked a couple weeks ago. Not to play inside though he could.


Because I am not quite blue in the face yet, I have to argue this at least once more.

Our three primary OLBs last year ranked 62nd, 72nd, and 88th in the NFL in sacks respectively.

Pettine's coming from Buffalo where he had the 4th, 16th, 20th, and 41st ranked sackers in the NFL. Our best sacker (5.5) was closer to their 5th best sacker (4.0) than their 4th best (7.5).

We don't have what Pettine wants & needs there right now, and the only one with any upside is Mingo, who still has a starting spot available to him if we draft an OLB at #4 overall.

That said...

From Pettine's recent comments on the top prospects at #4, what he said about Watkins seemed to me to jive most with what he's said he wants in players before. And Carr or Mettenberger seem to be the kind of QB that matches the profile of what they've been talking about this offseason.

With about 6 weeks to go, I see:

4-Watkins
26-Carr (vomit)
35-Roby
71-maybe an ILB like Borland
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:37 pm

leadpipe wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
leadpipe wrote: The Raiders QB situation is now superior to the Browns.


Just let that roll around in your heads for a while. Scary and true.


It is. But it's not like it's a race where the Browns can't catch up and pass. Probably 3 or 4 QB's from this class will be better in 2015 than Schaub (which ones, I don't know).

One does not sign Matt Schaub at this point in his career and drop the mic and walk off stage.


I'd be willing to take that bet - that is, that 3-4 QB's from this class exceed the career of Matt Schaub, or will be better than Matt Schaub's average career year in 2015.

Again, I ain't here to blow Schaub, nor do I wanna break the bank for him, but he had a stretch where he was a very capable NFL QB, and when you look back at the history of the draft, one that produces at least 4 very capable NFL starting QB's isn't an annual event.

And Matt is expounding on my overall point, that is, before we as Cleveland Browns fans dismiss the Matt Schaubs of the world, we need to take a look at our current QB roster.

Bottom line, we all see what's coming, Hoyer, the drafted rookie and some Jason Campbell type veteran. I'd feel better with a guy that's had some recent starting success in there somewhere.


That's not the way I took it. I think the idea was that 3-4 guys drafted this year will help their team more than Shaub will help the Raiders this year.

I'm not very convinced of that, myself, but that has more to do with my lack of confidence in this class than any idea that Shaub won't suck. I suppose that 2013 could have been an aborition but I get a lot of Browns QB jake Delhomme feelings when I think of Shaub these days.

I'd rather ride with Hoyer, as nervous as that makes me.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:43 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
leadpipe wrote: The Raiders QB situation is now superior to the Browns.


Just let that roll around in your heads for a while. Scary and true.


It is. But it's not like it's a race where the Browns can't catch up and pass. Probably 3 or 4 QB's from this class will be better in 2015 than Schaub (which ones, I don't know).

One does not sign Matt Schaub at this point in his career and drop the mic and walk off stage.


I'd be willing to take that bet - that is, that 3-4 QB's from this class exceed the career of Matt Schaub, or will be better than Matt Schaub's average career year in 2015.

Again, I ain't here to blow Schaub, nor do I wanna break the bank for him, but he had a stretch where he was a very capable NFL QB, and when you look back at the history of the draft, one that produces at least 4 very capable NFL starting QB's isn't an annual event.

And Matt is expounding on my overall point, that is, before we as Cleveland Browns fans dismiss the Matt Schaubs of the world, we need to take a look at our current QB roster.

Bottom line, we all see what's coming, Hoyer, the drafted rookie and some Jason Campbell type veteran. I'd feel better with a guy that's had some recent starting success in there somewhere.


That's not the way I took it. I think the idea was that 3-4 guys drafted this year will help their team more than Shaub will help the Raiders this year.

I'm not very convinced of that, myself, but that has more to do with my lack of confidence in this class than any idea that Shaub won't suck. I suppose that 2013 could have been an aborition but I get a lot of Browns QB jake Delhomme feelings when I think of Shaub these days.

I'd rather ride with Hoyer, as nervous as that makes me.


3 or 4 guys in all likelyhood won't even be #1 QB's this year, which I it would be a positive EV wager for the LeadMan.

But I can't argue with you choosing Hoyer and Co. over Schaub (and lost assets) Hoyer and Co., I would choose the latter.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:29 am

leadpipe wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
leadpipe wrote: The Raiders QB situation is now superior to the Browns.


Just let that roll around in your heads for a while. Scary and true.


It is. But it's not like it's a race where the Browns can't catch up and pass. Probably 3 or 4 QB's from this class will be better in 2015 than Schaub (which ones, I don't know).

One does not sign Matt Schaub at this point in his career and drop the mic and walk off stage.


I'd be willing to take that bet - that is, that 3-4 QB's from this class exceed the career of Matt Schaub, or will be better than Matt Schaub's average career year in 2015.

Again, I ain't here to blow Schaub, nor do I wanna break the bank for him, but he had a stretch where he was a very capable NFL QB, and when you look back at the history of the draft, one that produces at least 4 very capable NFL starting QB's isn't an annual event.

And Matt is expounding on my overall point, that is, before we as Cleveland Browns fans dismiss the Matt Schaubs of the world, we need to take a look at our current QB roster.

Bottom line, we all see what's coming, Hoyer, the drafted rookie and some Jason Campbell type veteran. I'd feel better with a guy that's had some recent starting success in there somewhere.


Who gives a shit about their career vs. Schaub's career? The bulk of Schaub's career is in the past.

I'm just talking about NOW.

3 or 4 of the QB's in the draft will be better in their 2nd year (2015) and go-forward than old washed-up Schaub will be in 2015 (I don't at all think he'll have an "average career year" at that point, I think his head problems are legit and his physical skills won't be getting better). That's all I'm saying.

And, yes, I agree that the team would be best poised to win in 2014 had they obtained Schaub. But since I highly doubt Schaub makes this a playoff team, he's not a long-term solution and I'm not overly worried about missing out on him.

I was hoping that they would sign him after he was cut and they'd go into the season with Hoyer/Schaub/drafted rookie, but the drafted rookie was always gonna be the key to whether or not the team acquired a long-term solution.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:38 am

HoodooMan wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Tells me we're not taking Khalil Mack, for one. Lots of $$ at LB spot between Krueger, Mingo, Dansby,et al. They like Sheard as well.

To me you don't take Mack unless you get rid of Mingo which is why I asked a couple weeks ago. Not to play inside though he could.


Because I am not quite blue in the face yet, I have to argue this at least once more.

Our three primary OLBs last year ranked 62nd, 72nd, and 88th in the NFL in sacks respectively.

Pettine's coming from Buffalo where he had the 4th, 16th, 20th, and 41st ranked sackers in the NFL. Our best sacker (5.5) was closer to their 5th best sacker (4.0) than their 4th best (7.5).

We don't have what Pettine wants & needs there right now, and the only one with any upside is Mingo, who still has a starting spot available to him if we draft an OLB at #4 overall.

That said...

From Pettine's recent comments on the top prospects at #4, what he said about Watkins seemed to me to jive most with what he's said he wants in players before. And Carr or Mettenberger seem to be the kind of QB that matches the profile of what they've been talking about this offseason.

With about 6 weeks to go, I see:

4-Watkins
26-Carr (vomit)
35-Roby
71-maybe an ILB like Borland


How do you see the first three picks going down?

If it goes Bortles, Watkins and Clowney are you taking Mack?
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:07 am

peeker643 wrote:How do you see the first three picks going down?

If it goes Bortles, Watkins and Clowney are you taking Mack?


Speaking only for me (obviously), I go Bridgewater there.

I am happy with walking away from the draft with any of (in no particular order):

Bridgewater
Clowney
Mack
Watkins
Robinson

Even more obviously, a couple of those will be available at 4.

There are a couple other guys I'd be "fine" with too. Only two guys (Bortles and Manziel) I can think of off the top of my head would upset me.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:34 am

peeker643 wrote:How do you see the first three picks going down?


I really have no idea. I could see all three teams going in several different directions. The possibility of someone moving up with STL doesn't help things either.

If it goes Bortles, Watkins, Clowney, then my pick is Bridgewater. And while I see some redundancy with Mingo's skill-set, I still like Barr over Mack.

My Top 4 board would actually go:

1) Bridgewater
2) Clowney
3) Barr
4) Matthews
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:01 pm

There are enough good players left at 4 that Mack/Barr shouldn't be in the conversation (not that they are bad, but I like Matthews,Robinson, Clowney, Watkins better as playas).

Watched Johnny Dawgpound's pro day. Looked like dudes playing catch. I like his film better. Same with Teddy B. Pro day/ combine stuff is junk.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:50 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:There are enough good players left at 4 that Mack/Barr shouldn't be in the conversation (not that they are bad, but I like Matthews,Robinson, Clowney, Watkins better as playas).

Watched Johnny Dawgpound's pro day. Looked like dudes playing catch. I like his film better. Same with Teddy B. Pro day/ combine stuff is junk.


Yep. Pro Days or the Combine are less interesting to me than watching The Bachelor or some Lifetime made for TV movie about a woman with glandular problems starring Meredith Baxter Birney.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby ASPDawgpound12 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:47 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
Erie Warrior wrote:There are enough good players left at 4 that Mack/Barr shouldn't be in the conversation (not that they are bad, but I like Matthews,Robinson, Clowney, Watkins better as playas).

Watched Johnny Dawgpound's pro day. Looked like dudes playing catch. I like his film better. Same with Teddy B. Pro day/ combine stuff is junk.


Yep. Pro Days or the Combine are less interesting to me than watching The Bachelor or some Lifetime made for TV movie about a woman with glandular problems starring Meredith Baxter Birney.


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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:33 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
leadpipe wrote: The Raiders QB situation is now superior to the Browns.


Just let that roll around in your heads for a while. Scary and true.


It is. But it's not like it's a race where the Browns can't catch up and pass. Probably 3 or 4 QB's from this class will be better in 2015 than Schaub (which ones, I don't know).

One does not sign Matt Schaub at this point in his career and drop the mic and walk off stage.


I'd be willing to take that bet - that is, that 3-4 QB's from this class exceed the career of Matt Schaub, or will be better than Matt Schaub's average career year in 2015.

Again, I ain't here to blow Schaub, nor do I wanna break the bank for him, but he had a stretch where he was a very capable NFL QB, and when you look back at the history of the draft, one that produces at least 4 very capable NFL starting QB's isn't an annual event.

And Matt is expounding on my overall point, that is, before we as Cleveland Browns fans dismiss the Matt Schaubs of the world, we need to take a look at our current QB roster.

Bottom line, we all see what's coming, Hoyer, the drafted rookie and some Jason Campbell type veteran. I'd feel better with a guy that's had some recent starting success in there somewhere.


Who gives a shit about their career vs. Schaub's career? The bulk of Schaub's career is in the past.

I'm just talking about NOW.

3 or 4 of the QB's in the draft will be better in their 2nd year (2015) and go-forward than old washed-up Schaub will be in 2015 (I don't at all think he'll have an "average career year" at that point, I think his head problems are legit and his physical skills won't be getting better). That's all I'm saying.

And, yes, I agree that the team would be best poised to win in 2014 had they obtained Schaub. But since I highly doubt Schaub makes this a playoff team, he's not a long-term solution and I'm not overly worried about missing out on him.

I was hoping that they would sign him after he was cut and they'd go into the season with Hoyer/Schaub/drafted rookie, but the drafted rookie was always gonna be the key to whether or not the team acquired a long-term solution.


I'm not sure where you get I'm not talking about NOW.

I didn't bring up the hypothetical, just responded to it.

To be clear, all I'm looking for is them avoiding a scenario where they make some solid acquisitions in FA and the draft, and look like they could turn thing around, only to win 4-5 games because they have about the worst current QB situation in the league. Certainly, most important for the future is the rookie they get, but that ain't helping them NOW.

And I don't need "playff caliber" nor did I ever mention it. I said CAPABLE - which is to the entire point, we don't even know if we have "capable" at that position, thus the reason I'da liked to get capable in here.

Man, not much to read into, I think Schaub was worth the price the Raiders got him for, others disagree, which is fine. I'm not hanging from a ledge cause it didn't happen. There ain't nothing more to it than that.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:40 am

leadpipe wrote:I'm not sure where you get I'm not talking about NOW.

I didn't bring up the hypothetical, just responded to it.

To be clear, all I'm looking for is them avoiding a scenario where they make some solid acquisitions in FA and the draft, and look like they could turn thing around, only to win 4-5 games because they have about the worst current QB situation in the league. Certainly, most important for the future is the rookie they get, but that ain't helping them NOW.

And I don't need "playff caliber" nor did I ever mention it. I said CAPABLE - which is to the entire point, we don't even know if we have "capable" at that position, thus the reason I'da liked to get capable in here.

Man, not much to read into, I think Schaub was worth the price the Raiders got him for, others disagree, which is fine. I'm not hanging from a ledge cause it didn't happen. There ain't nothing more to it than that.


No need to split hairs, I agree with most of what you say.

I wouldn't have been overly pissed if the Browns had traded a 5th and paid Schaub (especially provided he went back to the pre-2013 norm, which I think is a big question mark). I'm also not overly pissed they didn't.

If he goes back to form, then he's good. If he follows his recent trend, he's unfieldable. Somewhere in between lies capable.

I base my opinion on the guess that he'll be better than 2013 but diminished from the peak of his career, and diminishing further in 2015 and out of the league in 2016. I assume that in 2015 he'll be Jake Delhomme (Browns edition), and in that case I easily see 3 to 4 QB's from this draft being better than him at that same point.

If I were to assume that he'd be back on career average form in '14 and '15, then the Raiders got a steal. Given his age and mental aspects of his 2013 issues, I find it somewhat unlikely that he returns to that form.

In no way am I asserting that 3 to 4 QB's from this draft will be as good in 2015 as Schaub was at his peak (although I wouldn't be surprised if there were 1 or 2).

I'm not really sure what capable-yet-not-playoff-worthy for just one year really gets you, except maybe a chance to sit the drafted rookie.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:38 pm

Don't they get new unis this year?

Anyone got a leaked image?
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Govbarney » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:27 am

Erie Warrior wrote:Don't they get new unis this year?

Anyone got a leaked image?


Next year , right before the FY15 Draft.

This popped up yesterday from Reddit as a possible team leak of what they will look like:
The design that looks like it’s going to be chosen can best be described as a happy medium between Minnesota and Seattle.

Let’s start with the helmet. A flat matte finish in a color I can only describe as “candy orange” with a matching color facemask and sublimated striping enhances the look of the helmet without sacrificing it’s iconic image.

The Jersey is candy orange with silver accents and brown trim. A custom block font is meant to invoke a blue collar feel. The stripes are subliminated and higher up on the sleeve, kind of like large spaghetti straps.

There are three different pairs of pants, Orange, gray and Brown. There is no Brown jersey, but rather a gray with orange chrome accents and white with the same. The pants have the same sublimated striping as the helmet and jerseys.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:36 am

A couple weeks ago Grossi published this article which kinda squashes the Reddit report.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=30371

This much we know:

* The Browns have been presented sketches of several uniform options, and they are liking them.

* The changes, still to be finalized, are not going to be drastic.

* Once chosen, the new uniforms will be kept under tight security with no more than a handful of Browns executives having seen them. The new duds will be unveiled sometime before the 2015 draft.

“It’s exciting. It’s a long process,” said Browns President Alec Scheiner.


The fans are incredibly passionate and proud of the team, the city, the uniform and the helmet,” said Mark Waller, the NFL’s chief marketing officer, who is overseeing the makeover project. “There’s a real sense that the city and the team co-exist and live off each other. So anything we do has to make sure we capture that real pride.

“I don’t think you’ll see anything that radically departs from that. I think you’ll see a real reinforcement of the (orange and brown) colors of the team and the tradition.”


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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:26 pm

Larvell Blanks wrote:A couple weeks ago Grossi published this article which kinda squashes the Reddit report.


Or vice versa. Grossi is not a paragon of excellence.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:33 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:
Larvell Blanks wrote:A couple weeks ago Grossi published this article which kinda squashes the Reddit report.


Or vice versa. Grossi is not a paragon of excellence.


This is true, however the article avoids anything to do with player personell and on the field strategy, 2 of Grossi'd weak points. Writing about new uni's should be his niche
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Govbarney » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:37 pm

Grossi's as usual is speaking in generalities. I don't see anything in the Reddit post that Grossi necessarily rules out. Everyone's definition of "Drastic" is different. Whats described in the Reddit post I view as hardly drastic, just more in-line to the direction Nike is moving all the NFL uniforms.

Never the less I have a sense that it wont be long until Nike talks the NFL into abandoning its strict uniform rules, and moving more towards what you see in College i.e. a new Nike uniform every week. There is to much money in Jersey sales not to do this, and I have never known the NFL to be opposed to making more money.
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby pup » Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:12 pm

A gray uniform isn't a drastic change?
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Re: What Have We Learned?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:01 am

I find it harder by the day to give a shit about the uniforms. Turn 'em copper and gray for all I care.
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Hikohadon
 
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Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
Favorite Player: Scotch
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