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2014 College QB Thread

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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:13 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
jb wrote:If Jason Campbell is Taeshaun Gipson I wonder who Josh McCown is? Johnson Baddimosi?

I'd hate to be on either side of your take Hiko.

Either these guys are dismissible ass clowns if they aren't HOF or borderline HOF or teams are making ass clowns look like very good QBs .

Either take in untennable in 2013.

Post another gif. :clap:


SD:

Didn't the same Josh McCown piss down his leg as a rookie in the Beefalo game with us , because it was too cold , reclaim the thrown to a Gannon comeback last night at 34 years old posting a plus 125 rating running an offense that didn't punt in minus 10 below wind chills last night.

Could it be Jason at 32 could be entering his prime.

I'm so down with sandwiching a ute in between a Campbell Hoyer Oreo , I don't know what to tell ya.

And I want to use both number ones to pick the bridge to finish that sandwich, not just any QB

Butt the best in this draft.

And give myself the best chance to make that combo work.

Edit;

Earp my bad , wrong McCown, just a bum who played for 10 years and never done nothing, same difference

Butt look at him now , that's the point.

System opportunity light switches epiiphany and opportunity and all that.




SoulDawg


Maybe.

Maybe the light switches on for both these guys at an advanced age and they go on to Gannon-ocity.

And they'll have their chance next year to show it, at least for the first half of the season, since I doubt that Chud throws the draft pick in right away.

But I ain't BETTING on it. I ain't ASSUMING it. Since the odds are way in the favor of these guys being who they have been their first 10 years in the league.

So no way in hell do I go into next season with Jason Campbell and Brian Hoyer as my only answers at that position.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:15 pm

jb wrote:Way to add to the body of knowledge "scholar".

:nanner:


Just giving this convo the attention it deserves. :cheers:
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:23 pm

Jason is 32 produced just 5 yards short of 400 yards vs a Mumbles defense designed to take Gordon and Cameron out of the picture, with no picks or turnovers, and what should have been a game winning drive at the end , with essentially no second wide out or decent running game .



A Mumbles defense that is 24th in total yards given up and missing Wilfork and Mayo, two of their three defensive studs.


Color me not impressed. You can pray on the 1/1000000 shot that Campbell is the next Gannon but I'd be looking elsewhere.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:32 pm

jb wrote:Man CDT, you watched em all?


Watched 'em? I own the entire series, plus all the Nightmare on Elm Streets and most of the Halloween series (except #3 and the ones after part 6, I do have Rob Zombie's reboots also ).

Shit, I have a framed original A Nightmare on Elm Street poster signed by Wes Craven, Robert Englund, Heather Langenkamp, and John Saxon.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:35 pm

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
Jason is 32 produced just 5 yards short of 400 yards vs a Mumbles defense designed to take Gordon and Cameron out of the picture, with no picks or turnovers, and what should have been a game winning drive at the end , with essentially no second wide out or decent running game .



A Mumbles defense that is 24th in total yards given up and missing Wilfork and Mayo, two of their three defensive studs.


Color me not impressed. You can pray on the 1/1000000 shot that Campbell is the next Gannon but I'd be looking elsewhere.



SD:

Browns haven't won their since 92. When Mumbles was the coach.

Dude posted a 115 rating and led two comeback scoring drives , one which should have sealed the deal, and another in the last 30 seconds after the refs fucked us over a rail with 44 yards of penalties and a setup Bray PI TD.

Competence at the position , just like what Hoyer represents when he plays , can win us all the games we need with a stronger team .

Train our Ute in the interim, to be a mix of both of these vets , mixed with the fearlessness of the young, and Damn if we might not have us sump thin.

Why be so quick to dump the only thing that resembles real QB play since Bernie was slinging .

Smart play first downs no mistakes hit the open receiver move the chains , rinse lather repeat.

WTF is wrong with that , until you can secure better.

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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:38 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
jb wrote:Man CDT, you watched em all?


Watched 'em? I own the entire series, plus all the Nightmare on Elm Streets and most of the Halloween series (except #3 and the ones after part 6, I do have Rob Zombie's reboots also ).

Shit, I have a framed original A Nightmare on Elm Street poster signed by Wes Craven, Robert Englund, Heather Langenkamp, and John Saxon.


I must be the one guy that kind of like Halloween 3.

Not as a Halloween movie, of course, that was a horrible idea. But as a stand alone film.

Course, I haven't seen it since the 80's, so...
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:41 pm

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
Jason is 32 produced just 5 yards short of 400 yards vs a Mumbles defense designed to take Gordon and Cameron out of the picture, with no picks or turnovers, and what should have been a game winning drive at the end , with essentially no second wide out or decent running game .



A Mumbles defense that is 24th in total yards given up and missing Wilfork and Mayo, two of their three defensive studs.


Color me not impressed. You can pray on the 1/1000000 shot that Campbell is the next Gannon but I'd be looking elsewhere.


Looking elsewhere isn't an issue. You do that for certain and you do it each year. The issue is where you look (draft, FA, waivers) and what type of resources you expend (money, round selected, bundling picks to move up).

I maintain you don't deficit spend (not working out too well for Skins presently for a variety of reasons). If a guy you believe is the answer is there when you pick then go get him. If he's not, build your infrastructure and strengthen weak positions elsewhere (and there are plenty w/the Browns). Don't bundle multiple high picks to move up, don't reach on the next Weeden, don't trade your life away for Kirk Cousins, don't give Mike Vick a Robinson Cano deal.

I think JBs point is you can get better, improve in Ws and culture, by taking what comes and not neglecting the fact that you have major issues at multiple positions even before you consider Mack, Ward, Greco, Lauvao, etc are free agents at end of year.

The Browns are going to have to get better at the QB position before they ever get best at the QB position. There are plenty of ways to do that without expending your two firsts on a hope and a prayer and every single year brings you the next can't miss QB du jour.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:42 pm

Why be so quick to dump the only thing that resembles real QB play since Bernie was slinging .



Because I don't want average, inconsistent QB play, I want a god damn franchise QB. I'm willing to be the worst team in the league for a season to get it; it's this middle of the road bullshit that pisses me off.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:45 pm

The Browns are going to have to get better at the QB position before they ever get best at the QB position. There are plenty of ways to do that without expending your two firsts on a hope and a prayer and every single year brings you the next can't miss QB du jour.



Just to be clear, I'm not advocating trading up to take any QB in this draft. If Teddy were there at the Browns pick, I would bite the bullet and take him, but even he hasn't impressed me. The only QB I'd trade up for is Jameis Winston next year.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby justmebd » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:46 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
jb wrote:Man CDT, you watched em all?


Watched 'em? I own the entire series, plus all the Nightmare on Elm Streets and most of the Halloween series (except #3 and the ones after part 6, I do have Rob Zombie's reboots also ).

Shit, I have a framed original A Nightmare on Elm Street poster signed by Wes Craven, Robert Englund, Heather Langenkamp, and John Saxon.


I must be the one guy that kind of like Halloween 3.

Not as a Halloween movie, of course, that was a horrible idea. But as a stand alone film.

Course, I haven't seen it since the 80's, so...

I never got around to watching Halloween 3.

Nightmare 3 is the best of the Nightmare sequels because the kids actually get powers and fight back for more than just the last scene.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:46 pm

peeker643 wrote:
rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
Jason is 32 produced just 5 yards short of 400 yards vs a Mumbles defense designed to take Gordon and Cameron out of the picture, with no picks or turnovers, and what should have been a game winning drive at the end , with essentially no second wide out or decent running game .



A Mumbles defense that is 24th in total yards given up and missing Wilfork and Mayo, two of their three defensive studs.


Color me not impressed. You can pray on the 1/1000000 shot that Campbell is the next Gannon but I'd be looking elsewhere.


Looking elsewhere isn't an issue. You do that for certain and you do it each year. The issue is where you look (draft, FA, waivers) and what type of resources you expend (money, round selected, bundling picks to move up).

I maintain you don't deficit spend (not working out too well for Skins presently for a variety of reasons). If a guy you believe is the answer is there when you pick then go get him. If he's not, build your infrastructure and strengthen weak positions elsewhere (and there are plenty w/the Browns). Don't bundle multiple high picks to move up, don't reach on the next Weeden, don't trade your life away for Kirk Cousins, don't give Mike Vick a Robinson Cano deal.

I think JBs point is you can get better, improve in Ws and culture, by taking what comes and not neglecting the fact that you have major issues at multiple positions even before you consider Mack, Ward, Greco, Lauvao, etc are free agents at end of year.

The Browns are going to have to get better at the QB position before they ever get best at the QB position. There are plenty of ways to do that without expending your two firsts on a hope and a prayer and every single year brings you the next can't miss QB du jour.


Like the old canon commericial: so advanced it's simple.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:49 pm

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
Why be so quick to dump the only thing that resembles real QB play since Bernie was slinging .



Because I don't want average, inconsistent QB play, I want a god damn franchise QB. I'm willing to be the worst team in the league for a season to get it; it's this middle of the road bullshit that pisses me off.


You and 24 other fan bases.

Point being being the worst team in the league doesn't guarantee you you get what you were hoping for.

I'm done praying for a QB.

I'm all about now praying the people in charge of putting this team togehter are elite. If that's the case you'll get to where you want to be a lot faster than hoping the hyped QB you tanked a season or two to move up for is the real deal.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:00 pm

peeker643 wrote:
rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
Jason is 32 produced just 5 yards short of 400 yards vs a Mumbles defense designed to take Gordon and Cameron out of the picture, with no picks or turnovers, and what should have been a game winning drive at the end , with essentially no second wide out or decent running game .



A Mumbles defense that is 24th in total yards given up and missing Wilfork and Mayo, two of their three defensive studs.


Color me not impressed. You can pray on the 1/1000000 shot that Campbell is the next Gannon but I'd be looking elsewhere.


Looking elsewhere isn't an issue. You do that for certain and you do it each year. The issue is where you look (draft, FA, waivers) and what type of resources you expend (money, round selected, bundling picks to move up).

I maintain you don't deficit spend (not working out too well for Skins presently for a variety of reasons). If a guy you believe is the answer is there when you pick then go get him. If he's not, build your infrastructure and strengthen weak positions elsewhere (and there are plenty w/the Browns). Don't bundle multiple high picks to move up, don't reach on the next Weeden, don't trade your life away for Kirk Cousins, don't give Mike Vick a Robinson Cano deal.

I think JBs point is you can get better, improve in Ws and culture, by taking what comes and not neglecting the fact that you have major issues at multiple positions even before you consider Mack, Ward, Greco, Lauvao, etc are free agents at end of year.

The Browns are going to have to get better at the QB position before they ever get best at the QB position. There are plenty of ways to do that without expending your two firsts on a hope and a prayer and every single year brings you the next can't miss QB du jour.


And no one is advocating doing that (expending both firsts on a hope and a prayer). That is hyperbole.

And I personally think the position CAN be addressed in other ways (trade, maybe a FA is worth a look), just that generally the most successful way of addressing it comes through the draft, and generally the most successful draft picks at that position come in the first 2 (or even 3, willing to concede that) rounds.

I just take umbrage with the concept that it isn't a position that needs addressed just as much as much as Guard or Safety or ILB or etc. Hell, more, since an All Pro Guard makes maybe a 1 win difference vs what a Franchise (not HOF) QB makes.

So I personally think that you do not make any serious strides with Wins or Culture with Jason freakin' Campbell (or other bottom third of the NFL QB's like him) as your main QB (barring developing a higher round draft pick). You gain nothing. You make no progress. You stagnate. SSDD. Couldn't be anything MORE damaging to your team.

Now, if you guys want to sink your 2014 eggs in the Hoyer basket, at least on that front I can't argue that I have (personally) seen enough to write the guy off as a viable option for a team that wants to WIN and BUILD CULTURE OF WINNING. I'd say that I have serious doubts, but I don't know for sure.

But after 10 years of blech and a few games this year where he played just awful (and probably cost the team a win in one case), any GM that deserves his paycheck should be able to identify and acquire a better starting option for 2014 than Campbell.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:06 pm

peeker643 wrote:
rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
Why be so quick to dump the only thing that resembles real QB play since Bernie was slinging .



Because I don't want average, inconsistent QB play, I want a god damn franchise QB. I'm willing to be the worst team in the league for a season to get it; it's this middle of the road bullshit that pisses me off.


You and 24 other fan bases.

Point being being the worst team in the league doesn't guarantee you you get what you were hoping for.

I'm done praying for a QB.

I'm all about now praying the people in charge of putting this team togehter are elite. If that's the case you'll get to where you want to be a lot faster than hoping the hyped QB you tanked a season or two to move up for is the real deal.



"If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with."

Here's the boiled down points:

- NFL QB's aren't names. They are their numbers. QB play is what matters. Not the QB's names. We are seeing a sea change in 2013 where the golden age of the perennial elite is waning. To deny that in the face of overwhelming 2013 data is just flat out anti-intellectual.

- You don't have to hold off on building the team with a "nothing matters until we get out franchise QB" mindset. Too many playoff teams and real contenders have built either either the team first or the QB simultaneously - and that QB hasn't been an identified "franchise" QB selected early in a draft. To the contrary, that hit rate is very arguably the most ineffective and inefficient route to success.

- Several of today's alleged "franchise" QB's are manufactured and not made. Used to be Brady as an outlier outside of the first round. That is clearly no longer thye case in 2013 by any objective measure. I can't recall an era where the QB is just a player any more than 2013. QB ratings and winning is as winning does. Don't talk to me about your folklore.

- The conclusions are these:

There is no incentive to tank for a particular QB prospect.

Good teams produce good young QB's. Shyte teams do not draft great, franchise QB's high and see messianic results. This is folk lore bull shit in 2013.

Treat the QB like any other prospect weighted for position value. Do not go above/beyond that. If QB BPA nexus meets need nexus, pull trigger. get your prospect. If not, don't be a damn fool.

Build the rest of the team if you can have average QB play. There is no incentive to lose until you find your alleged "franchise" QB number one overall. If you match the right QB prospect with the right talent and system, don't be shocked if your "franchise QB" appears magically whether you draft 1st overall or you pick him in round 3 anymore.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:19 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
Jason is 32 produced just 5 yards short of 400 yards vs a Mumbles defense designed to take Gordon and Cameron out of the picture, with no picks or turnovers, and what should have been a game winning drive at the end , with essentially no second wide out or decent running game .



A Mumbles defense that is 24th in total yards given up and missing Wilfork and Mayo, two of their three defensive studs.


Color me not impressed. You can pray on the 1/1000000 shot that Campbell is the next Gannon but I'd be looking elsewhere.


Looking elsewhere isn't an issue. You do that for certain and you do it each year. The issue is where you look (draft, FA, waivers) and what type of resources you expend (money, round selected, bundling picks to move up).

I maintain you don't deficit spend (not working out too well for Skins presently for a variety of reasons). If a guy you believe is the answer is there when you pick then go get him. If he's not, build your infrastructure and strengthen weak positions elsewhere (and there are plenty w/the Browns). Don't bundle multiple high picks to move up, don't reach on the next Weeden, don't trade your life away for Kirk Cousins, don't give Mike Vick a Robinson Cano deal.

I think JBs point is you can get better, improve in Ws and culture, by taking what comes and not neglecting the fact that you have major issues at multiple positions even before you consider Mack, Ward, Greco, Lauvao, etc are free agents at end of year.

The Browns are going to have to get better at the QB position before they ever get best at the QB position. There are plenty of ways to do that without expending your two firsts on a hope and a prayer and every single year brings you the next can't miss QB du jour.


And no one is advocating doing that (expending both firsts on a hope and a prayer). That is hyperbole.

And I personally think the position CAN be addressed in other ways (trade, maybe a FA is worth a look), just that generally the most successful way of addressing it comes through the draft, and generally the most successful draft picks at that position come in the first 2 (or even 3, willing to concede that) rounds.

I just take umbrage with the concept that it isn't a position that needs addressed just as much as much as Guard or Safety or ILB or etc. Hell, more, since an All Pro Guard makes maybe a 1 win difference vs what a Franchise (not HOF) QB makes.

So I personally think that you do not make any serious strides with Wins or Culture with Jason freakin' Campbell (or other bottom third of the NFL QB's like him) as your main QB (barring developing a higher round draft pick). You gain nothing. You make no progress. You stagnate. SSDD. Couldn't be anything MORE damaging to your team.

Now, if you guys want to sink your 2014 eggs in the Hoyer basket, at least on that front I can't argue that I have (personally) seen enough to write the guy off as a viable option for a team that wants to WIN and BUILD CULTURE OF WINNING. I'd say that I have serious doubts, but I don't know for sure.

But after 10 years of blech and a few games this year where he played just awful (and probably cost the team a win in one case), any GM that deserves his paycheck should be able to identify and acquire a better starting option for 2014 than Campbell.



For the love of God man, it's not about Jason Campbell. Or Brian Hoyer.

Its about the ability to load up the team with BPA if you can get average play until you draft and develop your QB prospect.

Neither is a pro bowl QB. Both can win until that guy shows up. But the whole nothing matters and reach for your QB in round one come hell or high water dogma you are finally retreating from in this post is the issue.

And of course you've been advocating for just that approach.

No harm changing your mind. It's wise. But Christ, no new realities, please.

BTW - Campbell has an 88 rating. Not great. Not "bottom third". Average. Judge him by where he is now, not as a rook on 2nd year starter in DC in 06 & 07.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:22 pm

justmebd wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
jb wrote:Man CDT, you watched em all?


Watched 'em? I own the entire series, plus all the Nightmare on Elm Streets and most of the Halloween series (except #3 and the ones after part 6, I do have Rob Zombie's reboots also ).

Shit, I have a framed original A Nightmare on Elm Street poster signed by Wes Craven, Robert Englund, Heather Langenkamp, and John Saxon.


I must be the one guy that kind of like Halloween 3.

Not as a Halloween movie, of course, that was a horrible idea. But as a stand alone film.

Course, I haven't seen it since the 80's, so...

I never got around to watching Halloween 3.

Nightmare 3 is the best of the Nightmare sequels because the kids actually get powers and fight back for more than just the last scene.



Agreed. That was also the first one that injected some humor into the series, which some fans hate. I personally love the campy humor of Freddy, it sets him apart from the lumbering mutes.

Fun Fact: Robert Englund was considered for the part of Han Solo after the casting crew overheard him going over lines with his buddy Mark Hamill.

Some big name actors/actresses got their starts in these 3 franchises. Johnny Depp, Jamie Lee Curtis, Kevin Bacon, Paul Rudd, and Patrica Arquette to name a few.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:28 pm

Some of that is valid and some of it is wishful thinking, but I don't wish to parse through it. Simply:

Yes, you don't stop building the team regardless of what's going on at the QB position. Duh.

The QB is part of the team you're trying to build.

As with any position, if the player is performing on a bottom-third level, you need to upgrade. That's part of team building. Ideally, you want to upgrade to a player that can stay in that role for several years. That helps with establishing a culture of success and stability.

Jason Campbell is a bottom third QB with inconsistent performances and whose shelf life on the team is likely very limited. Nothing he brings to the table helps you establish consistency, stability, or a culture of winning. There's really no reason NOT to replace him unless you have failed to identify and acquire a potential improvement (through any number of means), which does not bode well for your ability to build the team as a whole.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:28 pm

Hikohadon wrote:And no one is advocating doing that (expending both firsts on a hope and a prayer). That is hyperbole.


You're assuming I meant both this year's firsts, I think.

I'm talking multiple first round picks in general, a la Washington. I like RG3 a lot. Think he COULD be a perennial All-Pro type.

But I do believe the Redskins traded multiple first round picks for RG3. That ain't hyperbole. That's historical fact. And even if we say RG3 is a franchise, game changing guy, those guys get hurt, their teams have other holes that result in 2013 Washington-like W-L records and it's probably going to make for some stomach turning moments next May when the Rams use that 'Skins pick to take Clowney or someone else in the mix at pick #2.

Very, very steep price.

But at least the Skins got their franchise guy who changed the course of their organization almost immediately after they sold their souls and future to grab him.

Worth it?

Too soon to tell, I guess. But certainly far short of some imaginary elixir and sure-fire method of success.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:33 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:And no one is advocating doing that (expending both firsts on a hope and a prayer). That is hyperbole.


You're assuming I meant both this year's firsts, I think.

I'm talking multiple first round picks in general, a la Washington. I like RG3 a lot. Think he COULD be a perennial All-Pro type.

But I do believe the Redskins traded multiple first round picks for RG3. That ain't hyperbole. That's historical fact. And even if we say RG3 is a franchise, game changing guy, those guys get hurt, their teams have other holes that result in 2013 Washington-like W-L records and it's probably going to make for some stomach turning moments next May when the Rams use that 'Skins pick to take Clowney or someone else in the mix at pick #2.

Very, very steep price.

But at least the Skins got their franchise guy who changed the course of their organization almost immediately after they sold their souls and future to grab him.

Worth it?

Too soon to tell, I guess. But certainly far short of some imaginary elixir and sure-fire method of success.



It only slightly less stupid to reach for a 1st round QB that has no reason going there as it is spending 2 number ones for a better prospect and still reaching.

If you draft a guy in round one because you "have" to pick a QB you've pissed away opportunity cost. You've also just anointed him. A 1st round QB demands a look regardless of how good he isn't. In some cases, you get saddled to him for 2 seasons as the prospect and you spin wheels.

Look, if the collective wisdom of the FO looks at this bunch and decides one slots BPA where we pick, fine. But if they don't, I see no need to manufacture that.

If we end the 13 draft with no QB prospect, I expect a holy hell meltdown. If the drafts lands us great prospects at ORT, WR, RB, S. G, ILB.... well, don't expect me to join in the gnashing of teeth and weeping.

The SB is years away anyway if at all.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:33 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:And no one is advocating doing that (expending both firsts on a hope and a prayer). That is hyperbole.


You're assuming I meant both this year's firsts, I think.

I'm talking multiple first round picks in general, a la Washington. I like RG3 a lot. Think he COULD be a perennial All-Pro type.

But I do believe the Redskins traded multiple first round picks for RG3. That ain't hyperbole. That's historical fact. And even if we say RG3 is a franchise, game changing guy, those guys get hurt, their teams have other holes that result in 2013 Washington-like W-L records and it's probably going to make for some stomach turning moments next May when the Rams use that 'Skins pick to take Clowney or someone else in the mix at pick #2.

Very, very steep price.

But at least the Skins got their franchise guy who changed the course of their organization almost immediately after they sold their souls and future to grab him.

Worth it?

Too soon to tell, I guess. But certainly far short of some imaginary elixir and sure-fire method of success.

RG3 had to be REALLY good for that trade to work, and it's looking scary for them right now. Might be a while before another FO goes down that path.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:43 pm

RG 3 or not, give me 2 1's for Teddy before I'd touch Carr at 3 overall with just our pick.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:52 pm

jb wrote:For the love of God man, it's not about Jason Campbell. Or Brian Hoyer.


Did you have a lobotomy for breakfast? This whole argument is because YOU said Campbell was good enough that QB wasn't one of the positions we needed to address because "Campbell was DQ". And then I laughed and laughed and said "That silly JB is one cwazy guy!" Does any of that ring a bell?

ETA - I wasn't really all that in disagreement with you until you specifically made it about Campbell.

jb wrote:Its about the ability to load up the team with BPA if you can get average play until you draft and develop your QB prospect.


And even though I find this a simplistic approach to acquiring a QB (you're gonna have to bite the bullet and "take a chance" some year, cuz it's all chance), I'm not totally against it. It would assume, however, that Jason Campbell provides average play, which I do not feel he does. If you can squeeze average play out of some other QB and you want to ride that train until *whenever*, then I can find peace with that. That particular QB - bad idea.

My position all along is that if you want to win, you need better players (including QB). And we all know the easiest way to address improving that - or any - position is long term. (Not sure why I keep stating it though - you haven't gotten it yet.)

BTW - You know where you can shove your ratings. He should be happy I'm even allowing for the concept that he's 21st.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:59 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
justmebd wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
jb wrote:Man CDT, you watched em all?


Watched 'em? I own the entire series, plus all the Nightmare on Elm Streets and most of the Halloween series (except #3 and the ones after part 6, I do have Rob Zombie's reboots also ).

Shit, I have a framed original A Nightmare on Elm Street poster signed by Wes Craven, Robert Englund, Heather Langenkamp, and John Saxon.


I must be the one guy that kind of like Halloween 3.

Not as a Halloween movie, of course, that was a horrible idea. But as a stand alone film.

Course, I haven't seen it since the 80's, so...

I never got around to watching Halloween 3.

Nightmare 3 is the best of the Nightmare sequels because the kids actually get powers and fight back for more than just the last scene.



Agreed. That was also the first one that injected some humor into the series, which some fans hate. I personally love the campy humor of Freddy, it sets him apart from the lumbering mutes.

Fun Fact: Robert Englund was considered for the part of Han Solo after the casting crew overheard him going over lines with his buddy Mark Hamill.

Some big name actors/actresses got their starts in these 3 franchises. Johnny Depp, Jamie Lee Curtis, Kevin Bacon, Paul Rudd, and Patrica Arquette to name a few.


Dream Warriors was my favorite as well. Great effects, imagination.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:01 pm

jb wrote:RG 3 or not, give me 2 1's for Teddy before I'd touch Carr at 3 overall with just our pick.


I would agree with that. The more I watch of Carr, the less me likey.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:14 pm

jb wrote:If we end the 13 draft with no QB prospect, I expect a holy hell meltdown. If the drafts lands us great prospects at ORT, WR, RB, S. G, ILB.... well, don't expect me to join in the gnashing of teeth and weeping.


If they haven't already addressed previous to the draft, then, yes, there will be a meltdown. There should be. They should make every effort to address EVERY position of need, be it in the draft (preferable) or Free Agency/trade. Otherwise, they're either failing at their job or purposely trying to short-shrift the team for 2015 draft purposes.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:20 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:RG 3 or not, give me 2 1's for Teddy before I'd touch Carr at 3 overall with just our pick.


I would agree with that. The more I watch of Carr, the less me likey.



Teddy and the 7 Weedens AFAIC.

Hundley is the wild card. High risk/high reward.

This is why I'm content to wait until the 2nd round earliest, possibly 3rd or trade back up to the 2nd depending upon how the draft falls.

Or pass entirely this draft.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:24 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:RG 3 or not, give me 2 1's for Teddy before I'd touch Carr at 3 overall with just our pick.


I would agree with that. The more I watch of Carr, the less me likey.



Teddy and the 7 Weedens AFAIC.

Hundley is the wild card. High risk/high reward.

This is why I'm content to wait until the 2nd round earliest, possibly 3rd or trade back up to the 2nd depending upon how the draft falls.


I'm still willing to take a shot at Hundley (who I don't think will come out) because of his high upside. You will certainly get your wish of Hoyer/Campbell starting all of 2014 if they take him, though, he's NOT ready to start in the NFL as a rookie.

I think McCarron can be that "good enough" that you speak of. Certainly feel like he has more potential than our current yutzes to provide decent play. Low chance he'll be elite, though. Definitely not a first rounder. (ETA - please don't read this as me advocating for McCarron, just that I could live with it)

Need to watch more Grrrrappalo before I formulate an opinion. Not opposed to Taj in the 3rd.

Outside of Bridgewater and Hundley (with the 2nd pick), there likely isn't a 1st rounder in this draft. Haven't decided yet if I'd take Carr with the Indy pick if he was there, which he won't be anyway.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:37 pm

Hikohadon wrote:And... for the love of Christ I don't know how many times I have to say this... OF COURSE IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE QB


^Always appears to function as more of a BS release valve than something that actually jives with anything else you ever type on the subject.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:07 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:And... for the love of Christ I don't know how many times I have to say this... OF COURSE IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE QB


^Always appears to function as more of a BS release valve than something that actually jives with anything else you ever type on the subject.



Word, Cotton.

Image

You've always written nothing matters until we get our "franchise QB".

So NOW my work here is done.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:10 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:RG 3 or not, give me 2 1's for Teddy before I'd touch Carr at 3 overall with just our pick.


I would agree with that. The more I watch of Carr, the less me likey.



Teddy and the 7 Weedens AFAIC.

Hundley is the wild card. High risk/high reward.

This is why I'm content to wait until the 2nd round earliest, possibly 3rd or trade back up to the 2nd depending upon how the draft falls.


I'm still willing to take a shot at Hundley (who I don't think will come out) because of his high upside. You will certainly get your wish of Hoyer/Campbell starting all of 2014 if they take him, though, he's NOT ready to start in the NFL as a rookie.

I think McCarron can be that "good enough" that you speak of. Certainly feel like he has more potential than our current yutzes to provide decent play. Low chance he'll be elite, though. Definitely not a first rounder. (ETA - please don't read this as me advocating for McCarron, just that I could live with it)

Need to watch more Grrrrappalo before I formulate an opinion. Not opposed to Taj in the 3rd.

Outside of Bridgewater and Hundley (with the 2nd pick), there likely isn't a 1st rounder in this draft. Haven't decided yet if I'd take Carr with the Indy pick if he was there, which he won't be anyway.


I'm schitzo about AJ. If I don't think enough of him to project him higher than average, which we have, then I can use that on a high quality ILB or OG that is a much better prospect than AJ is as a QB. Guess I'll defer to the scouts.

Hundley is the WC. The physical skills are beyond doubt. Does he have NFL QB skills and can he be consistent? Ditto Taj to a lessor degree although he has Quinn disease. He certainly HAS to sit. Easy to say, hard to do .

Unless you improve the team so the mob mentality doesn't arise. heh.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:28 pm

jb wrote:RG 3 or not, give me 2 1's for Teddy before I'd touch Carr at 3 overall with just our pick.


I guess. I think he's the Lone Survivor of the "Incredibly Awesome and gifted QB class of the 2014 Draft".

And I really have no idea how good he is. Not when I watched him look meh against a shitty Rutgers team. I don't know. Maybe I should look more closely at his excellence over OU, EKY, Houston, UConn, USF and Memphis.

I think the kid has the arm, the head and enough speed to get to the edges if you want to play the cool new read/option game with him. He, by all accounts, is bright and quick to recognize schemes, reads, etc.

I wish he was thicker. And I wish he didn't play in a conference that Chase Daniel and Brandon Weeden consider far inferior to their shitty conference.

It sure seems like he's separated from everyone else. Heisman voters don't think so, but don't really give a shit at all about that.

I just can't say with same with conviction I'd have said about RG3 or Luck that Bridgewater is going to be a franchise QB.

Honestly don't know.

I think it'd be interesting to ask people whether they'd take Tannehill or Teddy B today for who will have best NFL career when they're both done.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:38 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:And... for the love of Christ I don't know how many times I have to say this... OF COURSE IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE QB


^Always appears to function as more of a BS release valve than something that actually jives with anything else you ever type on the subject.


Mmmmkay.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:42 pm

peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:RG 3 or not, give me 2 1's for Teddy before I'd touch Carr at 3 overall with just our pick.


I guess. I think he's the Lone Survivor of the "Incredibly Awesome and gifted QB class of the 2014 Draft".

And I really have no idea how good he is. Not when I watched him look meh against a shitty Rutgers team. I don't know. Maybe I should look more closely at his excellence over OU, EKY, Houston, UConn, USF and Memphis.

I think the kid has the arm, the head and enough speed to get to the edges if you want to play the cool new read/option game with him. He, by all accounts, is bright and quick to recognize schemes, reads, etc.

I wish he was thicker. And I wish he didn't play in a conference that Chase Daniel and Brandon Weeden consider far inferior to their shitty conference.

It sure seems like he's separated from everyone else. Heisman voters don't think so, but don't really give a shit at all about that.

I just can't say with same with conviction I'd have said about RG3 or Luck that Bridgewater is going to be a franchise QB.

Honestly don't know.



Right. E Pluribus Carr.

So taking him high is high.

Why not rehab Zach in round 3? About the same odds and you can get a top level G or S prospect in round 2, or a top ORT or RB prospect in round 1 with the Colts pick, or the best WR in the draft with ours. All instead of burning one on a QB no one can say anything about butt "meh".

So simple and logical it's almost painful.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:30 pm

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:RG 3 or not, give me 2 1's for Teddy before I'd touch Carr at 3 overall with just our pick.


I guess. I think he's the Lone Survivor of the "Incredibly Awesome and gifted QB class of the 2014 Draft".

And I really have no idea how good he is. Not when I watched him look meh against a shitty Rutgers team. I don't know. Maybe I should look more closely at his excellence over OU, EKY, Houston, UConn, USF and Memphis.

I think the kid has the arm, the head and enough speed to get to the edges if you want to play the cool new read/option game with him. He, by all accounts, is bright and quick to recognize schemes, reads, etc.

I wish he was thicker. And I wish he didn't play in a conference that Chase Daniel and Brandon Weeden consider far inferior to their shitty conference.

It sure seems like he's separated from everyone else. Heisman voters don't think so, but don't really give a shit at all about that.

I just can't say with same with conviction I'd have said about RG3 or Luck that Bridgewater is going to be a franchise QB.

Honestly don't know.



Right. E Pluribus Carr.

So taking him high is high.

Why not rehab Zach in round 3? About the same odds and you can get a top level G or S prospect in round 2, or a top ORT or RB prospect in round 1 with the Colts pick, or the best WR in the draft with ours. All instead of burning one on a QB no one can say anything about butt "meh".

So simple and logical it's almost painful.

Is this where you pretend there's a plethora of people out there crying out to take Carr at #3 and you're the voice of reason?
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby jb » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:01 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:RG 3 or not, give me 2 1's for Teddy before I'd touch Carr at 3 overall with just our pick.


I guess. I think he's the Lone Survivor of the "Incredibly Awesome and gifted QB class of the 2014 Draft".

And I really have no idea how good he is. Not when I watched him look meh against a shitty Rutgers team. I don't know. Maybe I should look more closely at his excellence over OU, EKY, Houston, UConn, USF and Memphis.

I think the kid has the arm, the head and enough speed to get to the edges if you want to play the cool new read/option game with him. He, by all accounts, is bright and quick to recognize schemes, reads, etc.

I wish he was thicker. And I wish he didn't play in a conference that Chase Daniel and Brandon Weeden consider far inferior to their shitty conference.

It sure seems like he's separated from everyone else. Heisman voters don't think so, but don't really give a shit at all about that.

I just can't say with same with conviction I'd have said about RG3 or Luck that Bridgewater is going to be a franchise QB.

Honestly don't know.



Right. E Pluribus Carr.

So taking him high is high.

Why not rehab Zach in round 3? About the same odds and you can get a top level G or S prospect in round 2, or a top ORT or RB prospect in round 1 with the Colts pick, or the best WR in the draft with ours. All instead of burning one on a QB no one can say anything about butt "meh".

So simple and logical it's almost painful.

Is this where you pretend there's a plethora of people out there crying out to take Carr at #3 and you're the voice of reason?



No. It's where you pretend such scenarios never happen.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:17 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jb wrote:Why not rehab Zach in round 3? About the same odds and you can get a top level G or S prospect in round 2, or a top ORT or RB prospect in round 1 with the Colts pick, or the best WR in the draft with ours. All instead of burning one on a QB no one can say anything about butt "meh".

So simple and logical it's almost painful.

Is this where you pretend there's a plethora of people out there crying out to take Carr at #3 and you're the voice of reason?



No. It's where you pretend such scenarios never happen.


Of course they happen. Find any scenario and you will find a hue and cry for it. And probably a GM that will do it.

I just don't see there's any call for Carr at 3, nor any real danger of the FO seriously considering him (despite what the mock drafts say), so it seems like you're railing against a scarecrow.

You think Metts drops all the way to 3? I understand that he'll have to redshirt his rookie year and that'll drop him some, but that guy had pre-draft-value-skyrocket written all over him.

BTW - anyone interested in Cutler here?
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:41 pm

jb wrote:Why not rehab Zach in round 3?


My answer: because that's as high as I'd have been interested if he was still healthy for 2014.

Positives: he has a big arm and I guess he made some strides in his one year in a Norvy offense

Negatives: his accuracy is poop, his WRs prop him up to make him look much better than he is, and he's a statue
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:49 pm

Blake Bortles is another name on the rise, apparently. I have seen him play, and I like his potential, but first round... :shrug

Might have to if you want him, though.

Both these mocks have him going to us with the 1st pick.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:05 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:And... for the love of Christ I don't know how many times I have to say this... OF COURSE IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE QB


^Always appears to function as more of a BS release valve than something that actually jives with anything else you ever type on the subject.


Mmmmkay.


The past is fixating on landing a great QB.

The present is focusing on great QB play.


Those are SO different.


Did this exchange happen or didn't it?
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:09 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:And... for the love of Christ I don't know how many times I have to say this... OF COURSE IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE QB


^Always appears to function as more of a BS release valve than something that actually jives with anything else you ever type on the subject.


Mmmmkay.


The past is fixating on landing a great QB.

The present is focusing on great QB play.


Those are SO different.


Did this exchange happen or didn't it?


If you think that somehow that exchange is evidence that I feel "it's all about the QB", I need to stop putting lines between my posts.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:19 pm

So from this thread alone...

Hiko's assessment of the 2014 QB class:

With the list it is and without really having researched the players too much, I'd be fine with:

1st (1st pick): Bridgewater, Carr, maaaaaaybe Hundley (if he comes out, which I doubt), I've seen his stock being a late 1st rounder.

1st (2nd pick): Hundley

2nd: McCarron (I guess), Grrrrappollo (I guess), Tajh Boyd, Mettenberger (I suppose)

God, this has gotten ugly.


Aaaaaaaand:

I'd rather sign Craig Robertson to a 10 year contract than go into next year with Campbell and Hoyer as the only QB prospects.

...

So no way in hell do I go into next season with Jason Campbell and Brian Hoyer as my only answers at that position.

...

If they haven't already addressed previous to the draft, then, yes, there will be a meltdown. There should be.

...

YOU CAN'T JUST SAY "OH WELL, WE'LL JUST DRAFT A QB NEXT YEAR" EVERY YEAR SINCE YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE NEXT YEAR WILL BRING WITH QB'S RETURNING OR GETTING INJURED OR GETTING ARRESTED OR DEMONSTRATING NEW WEAKNESSES.

...

IF YOU IDENTIFY A QB OR TWO THAT YOU THINK CAN BE REALLY GOOD YOU MIGHT JUST NEED TO OVERPAY TO ENSURE YOU GET HIM.

...

Contrary to popular belief, I do not want the Browns to reach for just any QB just to get a QB. There HAS to be someone in this draft that they think could be a possible long term franchise elite championship QB. I want them to identify that QB(s) and make sure they get him (one of them). If he has a top of the 2nd Rd grade, take him with the Indy pick. If he has a top of 3rd Rd grade, trade into the back of the 2nd to get him if you have to.


So in summation, the QB isn't everything, BUT:

-The QB is apparently at least an entire passing offense, if not an entire offense

-The only acceptable approach to a shitty QB class (meltdown justified, otherwise) is to reach on a QB in the first two rounds of the draft, because as anyone who doesn't think the QB is everything knows, doing this every year is a great way to build up the rest of the team that (wink, wink) matters, too.

-Though, as we know from other conversations on the topic, if the QB you've signed or traded for isn't one of about 10 names, he isn't worth bothering with, and if the QB you've drafted isn't one of 2-3 names, he isn't worth drafting.

So the QB isn't everything, he's just 98% of all things. :rolleyes
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Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:26 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:And... for the love of Christ I don't know how many times I have to say this... OF COURSE IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE QB


^Always appears to function as more of a BS release valve than something that actually jives with anything else you ever type on the subject.


Mmmmkay.


The past is fixating on landing a great QB.

The present is focusing on great QB play.


Those are SO different.


Did this exchange happen or didn't it?


If you think that somehow that exchange is evidence that I feel "it's all about the QB", I need to stop putting lines between my posts.


WTF else is what you said supposed to mean?
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:32 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:And... for the love of Christ I don't know how many times I have to say this... OF COURSE IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE QB


^Always appears to function as more of a BS release valve than something that actually jives with anything else you ever type on the subject.


Mmmmkay.


The past is fixating on landing a great QB.

The present is focusing on great QB play.


Those are SO different.


Did this exchange happen or didn't it?


If you think that somehow that exchange is evidence that I feel "it's all about the QB", I need to stop putting lines between my posts.


WTF else is what you said supposed to mean?


Good QB play usually comes from good QB's.

Which in no way means that QB is the only thing that matters.

Not even sure how one makes that logic plummet.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:07 pm

Just :gah:

This is the one and only topic on which you can be thoroughly exasperating...IMO.

If we somehow manage to get a franchise QB this offseason, it will be a double relief for both watching Browns football and conversing on Browns football with you. Until then, I'll try harder to sit these conversations out...
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:23 pm

HoodooMan wrote:So from this thread alone...

Hiko's assessment of the 2014 QB class:

With the list it is and without really having researched the players too much, I'd be fine with:

1st (1st pick): Bridgewater, Carr, maaaaaaybe Hundley (if he comes out, which I doubt), I've seen his stock being a late 1st rounder.

1st (2nd pick): Hundley

2nd: McCarron (I guess), Grrrrappollo (I guess), Tajh Boyd, Mettenberger (I suppose)

God, this has gotten ugly.


Aaaaaaaand:

I'd rather sign Craig Robertson to a 10 year contract than go into next year with Campbell and Hoyer as the only QB prospects.

...

So no way in hell do I go into next season with Jason Campbell and Brian Hoyer as my only answers at that position.

...

If they haven't already addressed previous to the draft, then, yes, there will be a meltdown. There should be.

...

YOU CAN'T JUST SAY "OH WELL, WE'LL JUST DRAFT A QB NEXT YEAR" EVERY YEAR SINCE YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE NEXT YEAR WILL BRING WITH QB'S RETURNING OR GETTING INJURED OR GETTING ARRESTED OR DEMONSTRATING NEW WEAKNESSES.

...

IF YOU IDENTIFY A QB OR TWO THAT YOU THINK CAN BE REALLY GOOD YOU MIGHT JUST NEED TO OVERPAY TO ENSURE YOU GET HIM.

...

Contrary to popular belief, I do not want the Browns to reach for just any QB just to get a QB. There HAS to be someone in this draft that they think could be a possible long term franchise elite championship QB. I want them to identify that QB(s) and make sure they get him (one of them). If he has a top of the 2nd Rd grade, take him with the Indy pick. If he has a top of 3rd Rd grade, trade into the back of the 2nd to get him if you have to.


So in summation, the QB isn't everything, BUT:

-The QB is apparently at least an entire passing offense, if not an entire offense

-The only acceptable approach to a shitty QB class (meltdown justified, otherwise) is to reach on a QB in the first two rounds of the draft, because as anyone who doesn't think the QB is everything knows, doing this every year is a great way to build up the rest of the team that (wink, wink) matters, too.

-Though, as we know from other conversations on the topic, if the QB you've signed or traded for isn't one of about 10 names, he isn't worth bothering with, and if the QB you've drafted isn't one of 2-3 names, he isn't worth drafting.

So the QB isn't everything, he's just 98% of all things. :rolleyes


Again, you surprise me with your ability to get from point A to C via point Q.

Clearly, I value the QB position more than you do. Not nearly as much as you would like to make out with your silly projection, but more than you. Devaluing the importance of the QB to be roughly about the same as any other position seems to be some kind of mantra on this board these days, maybe a projection of the way people wish the world was.

No where in any of the quotes I made did I state that they HAD to "reach". I state that if there was a guy that they identified that they wanted, they might have to take him a little early to get him. That of course is the case with all positions, but even more so the QB position. I also state that more often than not, the top QB's are taken in the top rounds, so that might be the price.

"Reaching" in and of itself indicates that someone took a bad player, and I certainly don't want them to pick a bad player, not in any round. If they truly think that every QB in this draft will suck, then by all means, don't take one. But I think it is highly disingenuous to assume they all will suck - the odds are high that at least one or two of the QB's selected after Bridgewater go on to have franchise-type careers. It is the job of the FO to identify them and make an attempt to acquire them, as it is with the other positions of weakness.

It sounds to me like you feel every QB in this draft is going to be crap, so to take one at all is a waste. Maybe. You've probably watched a lot more of them than I have. But the logic is flawed.

And my post about where I might take the players, I clearly stated I hadn't researched it too much and thought it was obvious that I was musing. Attempting to use that as evidence of anything is weak, but have at it. By the time the draft rolls around, my opinions on the available QB's will probably change 15 times, so feel free to use each one as proof that I represent some "enemy position".
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:31 pm

HoodooMan wrote:Just :gah:

This is the one and only topic on which you can be thoroughly exasperating...IMO.

If we somehow manage to get a franchise QB this offseason, it will be a double relief for both watching Browns football and conversing on Browns football with you. Until then, I'll try harder to sit these conversations out...


Back atcha, brah. And the sitting out too. I feel like what I think are innocent comments get taken out of context because of the perception that I hold some hardline position in a black vs. white battle of some kind.

I'll stick to more of these... (mooning) :group:
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:04 pm

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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby HoodooMan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:05 pm

Hikohadon wrote:It sounds to me like you feel every QB in this draft is going to be crap...


Well, since I can respond without veering off too far into QB value...

I don't feel this way at all.

I like Teddy Bridgewater. If we had the #1 overall pick, I'd be happy to take him there.

I said most of what I have to say about Derek Carr upthread. I wouldn't want to use a Top 50ish pick on him. Maybe he could be a quality NFL QB, but IMO that's a hell of a projection based on what he's doing against the competition he's doing it against.

Again, I like my stripper girlfriend analogy for Johnny Manziel. He's oozing with my very favoritestest QB quality--poise under pressure & playmaking ability. He's sexy in that way. But he's a terrible idea in just about every other way. You don't responsibly take someone like that in the Top 50ish picks, but I can't blame someone for doing it, either.

After mostly ignoring all the OBR peeps' discussion of Bortles the past few months, with CBS' latest projection I finally checked out some YouTubez... He looks like he could be a real wildcard. I wouldn't hate him in the Top 10 the way I'd hate Carr or be scared of him in the Top 10 the way I'd be scared of Manziel. Maybe a little turnover prone, but he looks like a nice athlete with an NFL arm, and overall a pretty nice QB. And he has a silly name, too, which is always a bonus for me. So he'll probably end up in the Top 5 and still out of reach.

McCarron looks like a solid late 2nd/early 3rd round QB prospect who's likable enough that I wouldn't hate it if we took him a little earlier (by little, I mean with our 2nd round pick). I'd be surprised if he ended up a star, but not the least to see him turn into a quality NFL starter. His tattoo decision-making is rather poor, however.

Mettenberger is terrible, but he has enough talent & upside that a 3rd or 4th wouldn't offend me.

Did Hundley just announce that he's returning to school? (CBS doesn't have him ranked all of a sudden.) If he hasn't announced it, he should. He's raw as F and it's difficult to imagine him not failing horribly in Cleveland. Terrible poise & inconsistent accuracy from what I've seen. I just don't know how early you take a guy like that pretty much based on physical profile alone. Responsibly, I'd say late 2nd round.

My feeling is that Tajh has probably slid to where he belongs. Always kind of felt he was being propped up by Sammy Watkins the way Weeden was by Blackmon.

Who-TF knows about Garoppolo. But I have a difficult time taking him seriously.

So there you go, depending on how the draft falls, I'd be happy to take quite a few guys, whether they be players I'd be counting on to take the job from Hoyer or guys I'd hope to develop behind him for a while.
Q: What is the best/craziest location you've ever gotten lucky A: Mens room. Death Valley. (Fire Marshall Bill, 08/13/10)

...doesn't mean we cannot call you a spade when you are one. (donnyunitas, 10/21/09)

Plus it's kinda personal for me... I have a lot of family and friends who are Ducks... (angrybeaver, 11/08/09)
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:09 pm

Hikohadon wrote: Devaluing the importance of the QB to be roughly about the same as any other position seems to be some kind of mantra on this board these days, maybe a projection of the way people wish the world was.



Now who's projecting? ;-) ;) :wink:

As one of the dozen people still left here and one who's been regularly involved in this circular and annual discussion, I don't find it devaluing the position whatsoever to state that there is no dead-bang answer this season (or most others) and that it's stupid to reach and overspend on a media/scout/draftnik creation if there's an actual, honest to goodness player on the board who can actually, you know, play well and make you better. Especially when there's as good a chance (or better) as not that the QB will be able to actually play the game.

Maybe we could, as a group, list all the 1st round QB selections from the last 3-4 years and look back with hindsight and say which ones were reaches (90% of 'em probably) and which percentage of those reaches paid off in a bonafide franchise QB (5% of 'em maybe??? Prolly less???).

You know how I feel about it. You have for a while.

Take the guy if you like him when it's your turn to pick. Stop reaching so desperately (and yes, there are reaches that are reasonable).

Make the position better every season through either acquisition or development. They did that this year with Campbell/Hoyer over Weeden. Do it again next year and the year after that.

And now we should all sit back with amusement and watch people suddenly swallow goo for Bortles. No one woulda known who the fuck that guy was last September. Now someone, and I guaranfuckingtee it, will talk themselves into the guy being worth #5 and certainly a top 10 pick.

Wouda been a nice player in RD2. Better in RD3. Top of 1??? Are you effing kidding me? That ain't reaching. That's leaping blindly out a 15th floor window with arm out and hoping you find something really great to cling to.

Every single fucking year it happens.

Great. Let the other idiots pay that price. It just doesn't work. I don't know how many more Gabberts and Ponders and Lockers and Weedens it takes for people to figure that out.

BPA. And if BPA is QB (considering reasonable reach) then so be it. Otherwise I'm fine with others stepping on their dicks even if I'm getting only marginally better at the position.
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Re: 2014 College QB Thread

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:26 pm

You guys sound like a bunch of kids arguing over who gets to play Tetherball next. (i'm outta gif ideas and this thread is dumb.).
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