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Fear The Chip

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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:25 pm

Hikohadon wrote:Image

Let’s get retarded ha!
Let’s get retarded in here!



I just love the fact that it's a black dude wearing #3 and not the white dude who was wearing it previously.

Thank you for that.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:32 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Image

Let’s get retarded ha!
Let’s get retarded in here!



I just love the fact that it's a black dude wearing #3 and not the white dude who was wearing it previously.

Thank you for that.


Now now, those visors are dark, we don't know who's in there. That could be a spray tan.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:42 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Image

Let’s get retarded ha!
Let’s get retarded in here!



I just love the fact that it's a black dude wearing #3 and not the white dude who was wearing it previously.

Thank you for that.


Now now, those visors are dark, we don't know who's in there. That could be a spray tan.


Arms are muscular, player is standing alert and ready. Those guys look like fearless warriors and they also show no obvious signs of confusion or lack of intellect. All of that means we have a very good idea who it ain't. :nanner: :hide:

That was your freudian slip or you threw me a bone ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:50 pm

I didn't put 3 and 3 together, but ain't no reason not to tee up your favorite range ball.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:28 pm

Fuck it, I like them.

And the banner ads with the old chicks w/ huge tits are getting better.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:33 pm

I'm getting myself acquainted with the possibility of this type look:

Image
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:43 pm

Hikohadon wrote:I didn't put 3 and 3 together, but ain't no reason not to tee up your favorite range ball.


It offends me that you think I'd go there. ;-) ;) :wink:

Still say deep down in your subconscious that it was intentional. :tfh:
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby tired » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:00 pm

A thread on bucknuts just started say's BOB INTERVIEWED BY BROWNS

Per ian rapoport twitter!!!!!!!!

Per mary kay cabot
Anybody else hear anything about this?
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:45 pm

Hikohadon wrote:Image

Let’s get retarded ha!
Let’s get retarded in here!


JFC...you know, you're talking to an artist here and I could barf more creatively than that
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:46 pm

tired wrote:A thread on bucknuts just started say's BOB INTERVIEWED BY BROWNS

Per ian rapoport twitter!!!!!!!!

Per mary kay cabot
Anybody else hear anything about this?



That was posted at PFT about 2 hrs ago
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Lubber » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:29 am

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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:19 am

Impressions from last night's game:

The Oregon O can work on the NFL level, for the time being. Variations are already run in Washington and Carolina (not NE). But you have to have an RG3 or Cam to run it. You need a QB that is both very mobile and can pass the ball with NFL efficiency. You can't just plug a T Pryor in there. And it's very hard to find RG3's and Cam's.

Not to mention that scheme might still get RG3 killled. Maybe just a Cam can run it. I think Vick gefs killed in that too.

So I still think Chip would need to alter his O a lot at this level. As pointed out, he might be willing to do that. He'd better, at least.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Govbarney » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:55 am

Hikohadon wrote:Impressions from last night's game:

The Oregon O can work on the NFL level, for the time being. Variations are already run in Washington and Carolina (not NE). But you have to have an RG3 or Cam to run it. You need a QB that is both very mobile and can pass the ball with NFL efficiency. You can't just plug a T Pryor in there. And it's very hard to find RG3's and Cam's.

Not to mention that scheme might still get RG3 killled. Maybe just a Cam can run it. I think Vick gefs killed in that too.

So I still think Chip would need to alter his O a lot at this level. As pointed out, he might be willing to do that. He'd better, at least.


More so then even the QB, the Browns O-line would likely need a overhaul. Alex Mack , Shawn Lauvao , and Mitchell Schwartz are young and athletic enough where they 'might' be able to adapt, but I fear are Pro-Bowl LT could struggle, and be relegated to passing situations only. The LG needs to be replaced regardless of what system we run.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby swerb » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:56 am

Hikohadon wrote:Impressions from last night's game:

The Oregon O can work on the NFL level, for the time being. Variations are already run in Washington and Carolina (not NE). But you have to have an RG3 or Cam to run it. You need a QB that is both very mobile and can pass the ball with NFL efficiency. You can't just plug a T Pryor in there. And it's very hard to find RG3's and Cam's.

Not to mention that scheme might still get RG3 killled. Maybe just a Cam can run it. I think Vick gefs killed in that too.

So I still think Chip would need to alter his O a lot at this level. As pointed out, he might be willing to do that. He'd better, at least.

You saying you can't picture Weeden running the read option? ;-) ;) :wink:

For the comedic aspect alone I'd like to see it for just one game, taking a guy that got trapped under the American flag that can't move, slide, or play action fake and putting him in that offense. :hic:
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby General » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:19 am

Every time I see Weeds at the line, I picture a kid from Pony League experimenting with curve balls, who would take about 10 seconds to get the fingering right on his "breaking ball" alerting everyone between Babbitt and east 222 what the pitch was. Disaster.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:38 am

swerb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Impressions from last night's game:

The Oregon O can work on the NFL level, for the time being. Variations are already run in Washington and Carolina (not NE). But you have to have an RG3 or Cam to run it. You need a QB that is both very mobile and can pass the ball with NFL efficiency. You can't just plug a T Pryor in there. And it's very hard to find RG3's and Cam's.

Not to mention that scheme might still get RG3 killled. Maybe just a Cam can run it. I think Vick gefs killed in that too.

So I still think Chip would need to alter his O a lot at this level. As pointed out, he might be willing to do that. He'd better, at least.

You saying you can't picture Weeden running the read option? ;-) ;) :wink:

For the comedic aspect alone I'd like to see it for just one game, taking a guy that got trapped under the American flag that can't move, slide, or play action fake and putting him in that offense. :hic:


I don't particularly want to watch anyone running the read option here, but if you have to have a read option, then there isn't a QB on this roster that can be even remotely successful in it.

Unless you consider Cribbs a QB...
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:59 am

Hikohadon wrote:
swerb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Impressions from last night's game:

The Oregon O can work on the NFL level, for the time being. Variations are already run in Washington and Carolina (not NE). But you have to have an RG3 or Cam to run it. You need a QB that is both very mobile and can pass the ball with NFL efficiency. You can't just plug a T Pryor in there. And it's very hard to find RG3's and Cam's.

Not to mention that scheme might still get RG3 killled. Maybe just a Cam can run it. I think Vick gefs killed in that too.

So I still think Chip would need to alter his O a lot at this level. As pointed out, he might be willing to do that. He'd better, at least.

You saying you can't picture Weeden running the read option? ;-) ;) :wink:

For the comedic aspect alone I'd like to see it for just one game, taking a guy that got trapped under the American flag that can't move, slide, or play action fake and putting him in that offense. :hic:


I don't particularly want to watch anyone running the read option here, but if you have to have a read option, then there isn't a QB on this roster that can be even remotely successful in it.

Unless you consider Cribbs a QB...



Won't be long til defenses really ignore the fake/keep/options and simply put a man on a man and deliver hit after hit to both QB and RB on that play. It's cool to see what it did the other night against Ware and the 'Boys, but it's Jaret Wright in the '07 post season. It's not going to last. However, for a season or half a season, great, great, great sense from Shanahan and Carroll to let young kids who can run it do so and help themselves get acclimated and their teams get better.

That said, Weeden giving it a shot would be Seinfeld-level funny.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:35 am

See, I personally want to see Colt run it so we can see the first on-field decapitation.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:45 am

Hikohadon wrote:See, I personally want to see Colt run it so we can see the first on-field decapitation.


I actually thought we saw the first when Clowney hit Vincent Smith on Tuesday. I was only mildly disappointed when that wasn't the case so I am maturing.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby pup » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:13 pm

Rog ain't going to let anyone hit the QB.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:16 pm

The point of the read option is to establish a math advantage, not to run the ball. You use the spread to set a line on the field where the offensive players outnumber the defensive players and if the defense over-compensates you pass the damn ball to where they are leaving the whole. It's why carrying out play fakes in the Read Option is vital and why you see Urban/Chip/etc use so many hot reads to uncovered WRs. To say defenses will just hit the RB and QB is far too simplistic a view. If they try that someone will be open, because simple math dictates the success of the run based spread.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:23 pm

pup wrote:Rog ain't going to let anyone hit the QB.


Once they become RB's, they're fair game.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby pup » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:25 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
pup wrote:Rog ain't going to let anyone hit the QB.


Once they become RB's, they're fair game.


Right up until one of them gets decapitated without the ball.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:27 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:The point of the read option is to establish a math advantage, not to run the ball. You use the spread to set a line on the field where the offensive players outnumber the defensive players and if the defense over-compensates you pass the damn ball to where they are leaving the whole. It's why carrying out play fakes in the Read Option is vital and why you see Urban/Chip/etc use so many hot reads to uncovered WRs. To say defenses will just hit the RB and QB is far too simplistic a view. If they try that someone will be open, because simple math dictates the success of the run based spread.


But it's also predicated on a QB that can both make those passes and poses a running threat of their own. There are spread offenses that keep the QB in the shotgun and have him throw only, but Kelly's read option is not that type. To run that Oregon O, you have to have a QB that can run for about 500-600 yards and not get killed.

Unless Chip comes in and runs a different system to fit the personnel that's here, which isn't an impossibility.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:31 pm

Here's a good breakdown on what Meyer is trying to accomplish.

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2012/08/1 ... rs-offense

Chip is less power run oriented and even less get the QB killed than him.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:35 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:The point of the read option is to establish a math advantage, not to run the ball. You use the spread to set a line on the field where the offensive players outnumber the defensive players and if the defense over-compensates you pass the damn ball to where they are leaving the whole. It's why carrying out play fakes in the Read Option is vital and why you see Urban/Chip/etc use so many hot reads to uncovered WRs. To say defenses will just hit the RB and QB is far too simplistic a view. If they try that someone will be open, because simple math dictates the success of the run based spread.


It is simplistic, I agree. And I understand that the spread forces matchups and a defense to defend the entire field. I also understand there are probably four or five QBs at the max who can run it effectively with the mobility and accuracy required.

I'm just saying that with guys like Wilson and RG3 there will be DCs out there who would rather live with one-on-one DB/WR matchups than having All Pro DL like Ware left looking useless and frustrated on every play. And you could see as that game Sunday night evolved how Ryan began rotating a LB to Ware's outside responsibility and had Ware do nothing but key on RG3. Yes, that created another hole where that LB was, but better to have RG3 have to make that throw than have RG3 and Morris run for 260 yards .

I also believe given time and looks that defensive coordinators will ultimately catch up because this stuff is cyclical. And in 5 yars we'll be back to seeing defensive coordinators as the hot HC candidates based on their ability to neutralize guys like RG3 and Wilson, etc. But until the schemes revert to stopping it, I'd expect a lot of what Dallas tried to be tried by others. That means making every play painful if you want to run read/option.

And let's be honest, even RG3 and Wilson won't be running it in three years. Not with as accurate as they are. They'll develop more of a pocket game each year and won't need the option to be successful like they do today.

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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby bac5665 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:14 pm

The evolution of the NFL is clearly more complicated than a lot of people give it credit for. While the rules have clearly favored passing of late and it certainly looks like you need a HoF QB to get the job done, this year has shown pretty conclusively that running matters and you need to know what you're doing in order to get there even with a HoF QB. Just look at NO and how poorly they fared without their HC.

The point is this; I'm not sure that the HC isn't more important than the QB. I think you probably need both, but looking at what Harbaugh has done in San Fran, looking at NO this year compared with the last several, looking at the Colts and their success with and without manning and with and without their various coaches, I think the coach is more important.

When I read about Chip, I think he has the ability to innovate and scheme in the way that a HC coach has to have. Just has to. I think that anyone smart enough to be innovative enough is likely to be able to figure out the organization challenges of the NFL. And dealing with NFL players isn't that different from dealing with kids in college. Talented, arrogant, young men in both cases.

Now, Chip could fail miserably, no doubt. But so could they all. All I know is that Chip seems far and away the most likely of any of the candidates to have the "it" factor that our HC has to have. Fuck the rest of it.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:39 pm

bac5665 wrote:The evolution of the NFL is clearly more complicated than a lot of people give it credit for. While the rules have clearly favored passing of late and it certainly looks like you need a HoF QB to get the job done, this year has shown pretty conclusively that running matters and you need to know what you're doing in order to get there even with a HoF QB. Just look at NO and how poorly they fared without their HC.

The point is this; I'm not sure that the HC isn't more important than the QB. I think you probably need both, but looking at what Harbaugh has done in San Fran, looking at NO this year compared with the last several, looking at the Colts and their success with and without manning and with and without their various coaches, I think the coach is more important.

When I read about Chip, I think he has the ability to innovate and scheme in the way that a HC coach has to have. Just has to. I think that anyone smart enough to be innovative enough is likely to be able to figure out the organization challenges of the NFL. And dealing with NFL players isn't that different from dealing with kids in college. Talented, arrogant, young men in both cases.

Now, Chip could fail miserably, no doubt. But so could they all. All I know is that Chip seems far and away the most likely of any of the candidates to have the "it" factor that our HC has to have. Fuck the rest of it.


I'd say chicken & egg w/coach and QB. You get the QB first and coaches will show up. You get the right coach first and he's going to get that QB because he knows how critical it is.

Harbaugh had a QB who was a couple muffed punts from getting him to Super Bowl. Didn't matter. He went with Kaepernick because of the ceiling and knowing it's that dynamic guy who he'll need to get where he wants to go.

Need 'em both and they attract each other if they're good.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby bac5665 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:42 pm

peeker643 wrote:
bac5665 wrote:The evolution of the NFL is clearly more complicated than a lot of people give it credit for. While the rules have clearly favored passing of late and it certainly looks like you need a HoF QB to get the job done, this year has shown pretty conclusively that running matters and you need to know what you're doing in order to get there even with a HoF QB. Just look at NO and how poorly they fared without their HC.

The point is this; I'm not sure that the HC isn't more important than the QB. I think you probably need both, but looking at what Harbaugh has done in San Fran, looking at NO this year compared with the last several, looking at the Colts and their success with and without manning and with and without their various coaches, I think the coach is more important.

When I read about Chip, I think he has the ability to innovate and scheme in the way that a HC coach has to have. Just has to. I think that anyone smart enough to be innovative enough is likely to be able to figure out the organization challenges of the NFL. And dealing with NFL players isn't that different from dealing with kids in college. Talented, arrogant, young men in both cases.

Now, Chip could fail miserably, no doubt. But so could they all. All I know is that Chip seems far and away the most likely of any of the candidates to have the "it" factor that our HC has to have. Fuck the rest of it.


I'd say chicken & egg w/coach and QB. You get the QB first and coaches will show up. You get the right coach first and he's going to get that QB because he knows how critical it is.

Harbaugh had a QB who was a couple muffed punts from getting him to Super Bowl. Didn't matter. He went with Kaepernick because of the ceiling and knowing it's that dynamic guy who he'll need to get where he wants to go.

Need 'em both and they attract each other if they're good.


Nothing there to argue with.

We can't get the QB right now, so only question is what HC candidate has the best chance to be the coach. Anyone have any compelling argument for anyone other than Chip?
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Sea Foam Green » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:54 pm

bac5665 wrote:looking at the Colts and their success with and without manning and with and without their various coaches, I think the coach is more important.


In particular to the Colts, any opinions on Bruce Arians? He did just take a team that went 2-14 with a Rookie QB to the Playoffs.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:55 pm

bac5665 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
bac5665 wrote:The evolution of the NFL is clearly more complicated than a lot of people give it credit for. While the rules have clearly favored passing of late and it certainly looks like you need a HoF QB to get the job done, this year has shown pretty conclusively that running matters and you need to know what you're doing in order to get there even with a HoF QB. Just look at NO and how poorly they fared without their HC.

The point is this; I'm not sure that the HC isn't more important than the QB. I think you probably need both, but looking at what Harbaugh has done in San Fran, looking at NO this year compared with the last several, looking at the Colts and their success with and without manning and with and without their various coaches, I think the coach is more important.

When I read about Chip, I think he has the ability to innovate and scheme in the way that a HC coach has to have. Just has to. I think that anyone smart enough to be innovative enough is likely to be able to figure out the organization challenges of the NFL. And dealing with NFL players isn't that different from dealing with kids in college. Talented, arrogant, young men in both cases.

Now, Chip could fail miserably, no doubt. But so could they all. All I know is that Chip seems far and away the most likely of any of the candidates to have the "it" factor that our HC has to have. Fuck the rest of it.


I'd say chicken & egg w/coach and QB. You get the QB first and coaches will show up. You get the right coach first and he's going to get that QB because he knows how critical it is.

Harbaugh had a QB who was a couple muffed punts from getting him to Super Bowl. Didn't matter. He went with Kaepernick because of the ceiling and knowing it's that dynamic guy who he'll need to get where he wants to go.

Need 'em both and they attract each other if they're good.


Nothing there to argue with.

We can't get the QB right now, so only question is what HC candidate has the best chance to be the coach. Anyone have any compelling argument for anyone other than Chip?


I'd throw in that Chip (Read option Chip, at least) further narrows the field of acceptable QB's (see, I do have Peeker Disease, I can't stop complaining about the guy).

Bruce Arians seems to do a good job developing QB's, but it's not like I find him an "exciting" candidate.

Nick Saban brings the most credibility of any coach, but there's just not much available and he's not coming here anyway.

I just don't see how ANY coach comes in here and gets THE QB. Maybe A QB, but not THE. To get THE, you almost always have to do it at the top of the draft. Ain't shit at the top of this year's draft. Tank for Teddy B? Another year of this and Cleveland will implode.

If you want quandry, think about what we need most to win right now is some coach that can come in and adapt his offense best to suit what's here (or an Alex Smith or whatever schmoe you want to bring in). But that coach will probably do well enough to prevent himself from being bad enough to get the really good QB prospects in 2014. So maybe they do need someone like Chip to come in and suck so much that they are in position to take a good QB that can also run his system.

Either way... the future's meh.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby bac5665 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:03 pm

Hikohadon wrote:I'd throw in that Chip (Read option Chip, at least) further narrows the field of acceptable QB's (see, I do have Peeker Disease, I can't stop complaining about the guy).

Bruce Arians seems to do a good job developing QB's, but it's not like I find him an "exciting" candidate.

Nick Saban brings the most credibility of any coach, but there's just not much available and he's not coming here anyway.

I just don't see how ANY coach comes in here and gets THE QB. Maybe A QB, but not THE. To get THE, you almost always have to do it at the top of the draft. Ain't shit at the top of this year's draft. Tank for Teddy B? Another year of this and Cleveland will implode.

If you want quandry, think about what we need most to win right now is some coach that can come in and adapt his offense best to suit what's here (or an Alex Smith or whatever schmoe you want to bring in). But that coach will probably do well enough to prevent himself from being bad enough to get the really good QB prospects in 2014. So maybe they do need someone like Chip to come in and suck so much that they are in position to take a good QB that can also run his system.

Either way... the future's meh.


Couple of things.

First of all, Ariens does intrigue me, in the sense that I'd like to know a lot more than I do. Don't know if he can be the guy or not, but he's been around success a heck of a lot and that intrigues me.

Second, I actually agree that the future is meh on the QB front. There is no path in front of us to get THE GUY. And no path in front of us for the next few years. Unless Weedon becomes worse than DA or Quinn, (which is pretty unlikely) this team won't be bad enough to pick 1 overall for at least a few more years. The only way to do it is going to be to trade up some year. The good news is that I don't think it will be as hard as some people think. After this year, the market for QBs will be low again because most teams will have someone after the QB craze we've been on for a year or so. Teams are going to way overpay this year and hold on to guys for a couple of years after that.

So 2-3 years from now we should be one of the few teams not looking for a QB and we should, with good planning, be in the hunt to trade up and get a guy. We'd have give up our entire draft more or less, but I don't think anyone here has a problem with that.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:15 pm

Umm... there is also the Kaepernick way.

I think you have to credit Harbaugh for taking a team that was in disarray (despite having 25 1st round picks on its roster) and a QB who had failed in multiple years, to the title game last year AND finding a guy who would be excellent in his system (and not a top 35 or so pick) and developing that guy.

I know the jury is out on Kaepernick and he has a long way to go, but like a keen eye can find a Kaepernick or a Wilson and put them in a system that allows them to succeed, so too is it possible here.

I know people are moping and convinced you need to have a top three pick to make it happen here, but the league's elite consist of guys taken in a lot of spots outside the top ten in the draft. Probably the majority of elite guys, as a matter of fact. For every RG3 there's a Brees. For every Luck there's a Brady, for every Manning there's a Roethlisberger or Rodgers (figuratively, not literally for humanity's sake).

We need to quit moping about top one or two in the draft being the requisite spot to find that elite guy. It's a fallacy. You just need to have the people who can pick out the Wilson's, Kaepernick's, Brees's, Rodgers, Brady's, etc. We're too geo-centric in our beliefs. Just because this regime has been horseshit and unable to develop QBs and just because this org has fucked up college coaches to NFL transitions (and coordinator to HC transitions) doesn't mean it ain't possible.

It just means this organization has fucked it up where others have not.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby bac5665 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:23 pm

peeker643 wrote:Umm... there is also the Kaepernick way.

I think you have to credit Harbaugh for taking a team that was in disarray (despite having 25 1st round picks on its roster) and a QB who had failed in multiple years, to the title game last year AND finding a guy who would be excellent in his system (and not a top 35 or so pick) and developing that guy.

I know the jury is out on Kaepernick and he has a long way to go, but like a keen eye can find a Kaepernick or a Wilson and put them in a system that allows them to succeed, so too is it possible here.

I know people are moping and convinced you need to have a top three pick to make it happen here, but the league's elite consist of guys taken in a lot of spots outside the top ten in the draft. Probably the majority of elite guys, as a matter of fact. For every RG3 there's a Brees. For every Luck there's a Brady, for every Manning there's a Roethlisberger or Rodgers (figuratively, not literally for humanity's sake).

We need to quit moping about top one or two in the draft being the requisite spot to find that elite guy. It's a fallacy. You just need to have the people who can pick out the Wilson's, Kaepernick's, Brees's, Rodgers, Brady's, etc. We're too geo-centric in our beliefs. Just because this regime has been horseshit and unable to develop QBs and just because this org has fucked up college coaches to NFL transitions (and coordinator to HC transitions) doesn't mean it ain't possible.

It just means this organization has fucked it up where others have not.


Very true. But I think the Kaepernick approach is going to be a lot harder for the next few years because guys like him are going to go higher in the draft than ever before. And more teams than ever before are going to try and find those guys. Not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying that next few years are going to be challenging in terms of acquiring new QB talent. And while we shouldn't just assume that this org will fail at anything challenging (or anything at all!) neither should we just assume that they will figure it out. We have to wait and see and cheer on Sundays.

Oh, and all this assumes that the Kaepernicks of the work actually do work out and can be long term answers. Not at all sold on that assumption yet.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:44 pm

peeker643 wrote:Umm... there is also the Kaepernick way.

I think you have to credit Harbaugh for taking a team that was in disarray (despite having 25 1st round picks on its roster) and a QB who had failed in multiple years, to the title game last year AND finding a guy who would be excellent in his system (and not a top 35 or so pick) and developing that guy.

I know the jury is out on Kaepernick and he has a long way to go, but like a keen eye can find a Kaepernick or a Wilson and put them in a system that allows them to succeed, so too is it possible here.

I know people are moping and convinced you need to have a top three pick to make it happen here, but the league's elite consist of guys taken in a lot of spots outside the top ten in the draft. Probably the majority of elite guys, as a matter of fact. For every RG3 there's a Brees. For every Luck there's a Brady, for every Manning there's a Roethlisberger or Rodgers (figuratively, not literally for humanity's sake).

We need to quit moping about top one or two in the draft being the requisite spot to find that elite guy. It's a fallacy. You just need to have the people who can pick out the Wilson's, Kaepernick's, Brees's, Rodgers, Brady's, etc. We're too geo-centric in our beliefs. Just because this regime has been horseshit and unable to develop QBs and just because this org has fucked up college coaches to NFL transitions (and coordinator to HC transitions) doesn't mean it ain't possible.

It just means this organization has fucked it up where others have not.


OK, first, Kaepernick should've been a 1st rounder, I think most of us thought he was the 2nd best QB in that draft and it's not our fault that some morons took Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker and Christian Ponder in front of him. That style QB scared some GM's at that time - but that is changing. Not sure Kaepernick slips to the 2nd round anymore.

Second, there's not one late round gem for every first rounder. Maybe one for every 3 or 4. If there were so many late round gems, everyone would have one. The reason they drop to later rounds is that they're flawed and the odds are they WON'T work out.

Third, of the top 20 teams, 14 have first round QB's (11 of which were picked #11 or higher). Another 4 have 2nd rounders (high 2nd rounders). One has a 3rd rounder, and one has a 6th rounder (guess which).

Now, I'm aware that your ultimate point is that the Browns don't need to be high in the 1st to get a franchise guy, that some franchise guys slip to the latter half of the first or the 2nd, but there are a lot more misses at that area than hits, and sometimes you just get years where there's just no good options there.

And sure as hell not holding my breath waiting for the Banner/Lombardi superduo to unearth the next Tom Brady.

It's not a good plan. But I agree that it is the only plan available, so hope it works. I also agree that it's not worth moping about. I'm just saying I don't think the coach they pick matters as far as attracting a top QB, since there are just no QB's available right now no matter who they hire.

Hell, God himself could come down and take the job and he'd still be stuck with a lukewarm QB option.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:59 pm

Which brings it back to Tajh Boyd, right?

They have the #6 pick. I know we all want a bad ass pass rush, and we sure need it. But especially if they bring in Kelly, don't they kind of have to roll the dice on a dude like Tajh? Assuming he comes out.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby jerryroche » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:02 pm

Despite the holes that exist in the roster, the Browns are still in the position of being able to to pick one non-first-round QB every year. It's not like they've traded away all their draft choices. What the hell...they might hit lightning in a bottle. It's not something you bank on, but it's been done before.

Long as you got draft picks (and somebody decent doing the picking), you got life. So there's that.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:13 pm

jerryroche wrote:Despite the holes that exist in the roster, the Browns are still in the position of being able to to pick one non-first-round QB every year. It's not like they've traded away all their draft choices. What the hell...they might hit lightning in a bottle. It's not something you bank on, but it's been done before.

Long as you got draft picks (and somebody decent doing the picking), you got life. So there's that.


Yep, you take one every year until you get a good one. Eventually you might get lucky.

It's just not a viable "plan" for the QB position.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:15 pm

Running the Tebow System got a team to the post season last year.

Now I don't think that is viable long term in any way, but whose to say running the Chip Kelly system with a Boyd, Pryor, Vick, Alex Smith is not viable? If anything an offense as predicated on creating mismatches due to sheer number advantages should make it easier to find interchangable athletic QBs.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:24 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Running the Tebow System got a team to the post season last year.

Now I don't think that is viable long term in any way, but whose to say running the Chip Kelly system with a Boyd, Pryor, Vick, Alex Smith is not viable? If anything an offense as predicated on creating mismatches due to sheer number advantages should make it easier to find interchangable athletic QBs.


Like I said, if this experiment is going to fail, it's going to fail spectacularly.

Should be a fun watch. I'm all for it.

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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:03 pm

I guess.

Ten years ago if I had told you shit defense would magically win Super Bowls you wouldn't have believed me....

I see no harm in trying to bring SOMETHING new to the No Fun League. Fuck, Chip Kelly would be one of the first exciting things to happen to this shit ass vanilla league in a long ass time. It happening in Cleveland would only make it even more interesting.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:08 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I guess.

Ten years ago if I had told you shit defense would magically win Super Bowls you wouldn't have believed me....

I see no harm in trying to bring SOMETHING new to the No Fun League. Fuck, Chip Kelly would be one of the first exciting things to happen to this shit ass vanilla league in a long ass time. It happening in Cleveland would only make it even more interesting.


I'm agreeing with you.

They don't have a QB that currently can win a SB. So going status quo in a system that makes it impossible to with a SB without an elite QB might be fruitless.

So even if the stupid Read Option will probably fail worse than Caddyshack 2, it's not like there's a lot to lose. An interesting experiment that if it fails will fail BIG, and if it by some miracle works, well lucky us.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:11 pm

Plus the first time a read option gets a QB a concussion you'll get to watch Rog scramble to make it illegal.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:17 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Plus the first time a read option gets a QB a concussion you'll get to watch Rog scramble to make it illegal.

I've long contended that if they want to treat QB's different than everyone else, they should make it illegal for them to run past the line of scrimmage.

If you can't hit a QB, then they can't run.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Triple-S » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:11 pm

Joe Lull ‏@LullOnSports
3 hours into Chip Kelly’s interview w/ Browns the Eagles announce they’ve received permission to interview Arians & Bradley. Curious timing.

At least again, you can sell me on Kelly. Again, the guy at least has some sort of buzz around him, unlike Shurmer who was..well, an idiot.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby rbm0183 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:02 pm

Bruce Hooley interviewed Tony Grossi a little bit ago, apparently. He tweeted this:

@BHOOLZ: @tonygrossi says "I think it's all over. Barring a setback to the Browns, Chip Kelly is the next coach."

@BHOOLZ: @tonygrossi "I understand Saban has informed the Browns, go on with your search." He is not coming from Bama.

@BHOOLZ: @tonygrossi "I think it's going to be a Chip Kelly, Joe Banner, Michael Lombardi front office."

@BHOOLZ: @tonygrossi "If something would collapse, it would be a surprise. This thing may have been locked up earlier than today."

And from Mary Kay:

@MaryKayCabot: NFL Network's @AlbertBreer says word in league is #Browns "are prepared to open the vault for Chip Kelly.''

Looks like it's basically a done deal. Chip Kelly, for better or worse. Now a whole new set of questions.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:22 pm

Yay.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby jerryroche » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:23 pm

Would love to be a fly on the wall during the first Kelly-Weeden one-on-one meeting.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby FUDU » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:25 pm

I'm warming up to Chip the more I see his offense, I mean if the Browns are going with a college coach there are only two I'd feel were legit choices or gambles. Kelly and Saban.
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Re: Fear The Chip

Unread postby jerryroche » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:31 pm

Would love to be a fly on the wall during the first Kelly-Weeden one-on-one meeting.
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