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11 wins

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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby OldDawg » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:47 am

leadpipe wrote:From an organization in 2012 that used first round picks on an immobile QB and a running back.

Are you possibly suggesting that the Browns and the Cavs have the same group of experts handling their drafts?
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby justmebd » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:23 am

OldDawg wrote:
leadpipe wrote:From an organization in 2012 that used first round picks on an immobile QB and a running back.

Are you possibly suggesting that the Browns and the Cavs have the same group of experts handling their drafts?

Speaking of bad drafts, this little nugget of gold was passed around by Pluto this morning:

"The Jags waived former Browns 2009 second-rounder and Ohio State star Brian Robiskie last week. Former Brown Peyton Hillis had 16 yards in seven carries for the Chiefs. Evan Moore played one snap for Seattle."

Watching the Chiefs' offense stumble every week will be one of the few joys I get out of this season. Hopefully, the stain of Brian Daboll will be wiped from the NFL after he shows on THREE different teams now he has no idea what the FUCK an offense is supposed to do. I've never hated an OC more than that guy. If I saw him today I'd punch him in the face.
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:34 am

justmebd wrote:
OldDawg wrote:
leadpipe wrote:From an organization in 2012 that used first round picks on an immobile QB and a running back.

Are you possibly suggesting that the Browns and the Cavs have the same group of experts handling their drafts?

Speaking of bad drafts, this little nugget of gold was passed around by Pluto this morning:

"The Jags waived former Browns 2009 second-rounder and Ohio State star Brian Robiskie last week. Former Brown Peyton Hillis had 16 yards in seven carries for the Chiefs. Evan Moore played one snap for Seattle."

Watching the Chiefs' offense stumble every week will be one of the few joys I get out of this season. Hopefully, the stain of Brian Daboll will be wiped from the NFL after he shows on THREE different teams now he has no idea what the FUCK an offense is supposed to do. I've never hated an OC more than that guy. If I saw him today I'd punch him in the face.


I'd take Daboll over Shurmer calling my plays, all day, every day.
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby justmebd » Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:12 am

leadpipe wrote:
justmebd wrote:
OldDawg wrote:
leadpipe wrote:From an organization in 2012 that used first round picks on an immobile QB and a running back.

Are you possibly suggesting that the Browns and the Cavs have the same group of experts handling their drafts?

Speaking of bad drafts, this little nugget of gold was passed around by Pluto this morning:

"The Jags waived former Browns 2009 second-rounder and Ohio State star Brian Robiskie last week. Former Brown Peyton Hillis had 16 yards in seven carries for the Chiefs. Evan Moore played one snap for Seattle."

Watching the Chiefs' offense stumble every week will be one of the few joys I get out of this season. Hopefully, the stain of Brian Daboll will be wiped from the NFL after he shows on THREE different teams now he has no idea what the FUCK an offense is supposed to do. I've never hated an OC more than that guy. If I saw him today I'd punch him in the face.


I'd take Daboll over Shurmer calling my plays, all day, every day.

Clearly you have suffered brain damage from watching too many Browns games in the last few years.

I'm struggling to find an appropriate metaphor for this because both options are so horrifically bad. :bag:
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:38 am

justmebd wrote:
leadpipe wrote:
justmebd wrote:
OldDawg wrote:
leadpipe wrote:From an organization in 2012 that used first round picks on an immobile QB and a running back.

Are you possibly suggesting that the Browns and the Cavs have the same group of experts handling their drafts?

Speaking of bad drafts, this little nugget of gold was passed around by Pluto this morning:

"The Jags waived former Browns 2009 second-rounder and Ohio State star Brian Robiskie last week. Former Brown Peyton Hillis had 16 yards in seven carries for the Chiefs. Evan Moore played one snap for Seattle."

Watching the Chiefs' offense stumble every week will be one of the few joys I get out of this season. Hopefully, the stain of Brian Daboll will be wiped from the NFL after he shows on THREE different teams now he has no idea what the FUCK an offense is supposed to do. I've never hated an OC more than that guy. If I saw him today I'd punch him in the face.


I'd take Daboll over Shurmer calling my plays, all day, every day.

Clearly you have suffered brain damage from watching too many Browns games in the last few years.

I'm struggling to find an appropriate metaphor for this because both options are so horrifically bad. :bag:


I think I once compared it to choosing between colon cancer and pancreatic cancer.

3 years from now when Shurmur is long gone and Joe Schmoe is well into Cleveland Browns Failure: Volume 6, someone will claim that they'd rather have Shurmur than him. The current Failure is always the worst.
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby Brandon Weeden » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:00 pm

Ha ha! How'd ya like that one boys! Just 10 more wins for 11!
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby LarsHancock » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:48 am

Bump.

After 3 weeks it is obvious the Browns are far and away the worst team in the NFL. Parity has made the league unpredictable, and there are three tiers of teams now: elite teams, everyone else, and the Browns. The Falcons and Texans look really good, everyone else can beat anyone else on any given Sunday, and then there is the Browns.

After 3 weeks, there is only one other 0-3 team - the Saints. Projected final score of Browns Saints game? 98-3 Saints. Of the 1-2 teams, we'd get blown out by Den, Pit, NE, and Det, and would only have a fighting shot against the Chefs, Raiders, and maybe Miami.

The real problem is Weeden's accuracy, which is horrifyingly Andersonesque. I didn't see that one at all, I thought he threw a lot better than he does. That and coaching. An the lack of a pass rush. And Haden not being in the mix. And coaching.

I very likely may have to pay up this bet week 6.
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby jerryroche » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:26 am

LarsHancock wrote:I don't think people understand truly how much the Browns have upgraded over the past 2 years, and how much the lockout impacted them last season. So, with a full offseason to install the offense and defense, and a year of it under our belts, I'm putting my reputation on the line (which, granted, isn't much) and calling for eleven wins. Yep.


LarsHancock wrote:After 3 weeks it is obvious the Browns are far and away the worst team in the NFL. Parity has made the league unpredictable, and there are three tiers of teams now: elite teams, everyone else, and the Browns. I very likely may have to pay up this bet week 6.


Don't feel bad, Lars. You have shown an admirable optimism/disconnect in the face of unrelenting pessimism/realism from the rest of the yahoos on these boards, myself included. But you forgot to factor in the history of the Browns from 1990 to the present. Ya shouldn't'a made the bet.
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby General » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:58 am

Living out of the sphere of doom that pervades Cleveland sports makes it easier to ignore the consistently bad outlook. I made a bet with a friend for 50 bucks. He said the Browns would win at least six games. I maintain 2 will be the high water mark. I let him off the hook yesterday for 25 bucks. BTW he is a Steelers fan.
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:24 pm

Did we watch the same game yesterday? I thought when Weeden actually stepped up and made the throws, they weren't that bad at all. The only drives I really pinned on him were the last two, which were horrific and totally expected.

The rest of the game he was either tucking and falling to the ground to make sure he didn't fumble or making poor check down decisions or throws short of the sticks on 3rd down. Had a number of catchable balls bounce off guys hands. Like someone noted in another thread, before the last 2 drives, he had a rating of like 99. The throw to Benjamin was perfect, he threw it on the break.

I'd rather not complain about his accuracy (pretty good over the last two weeks) but focus on the fact that he consistently gets happy feet in the face of a pass rush and doesn't know how to check to the right play at the line based on what the defense is giving him. Part of that is on Shurmur, part is on the crappy receivers not getting separation or catching the balls that they should, and part is on him being a rookie. I'd say the accuracy is his best asset, at this point, and should only get better as the year goes on.

(If he doesn't correct the rest of it, though, he's going to be a dead man walking next spring. New browns management will draft another 1st round QB, and that first rounder will be sitting on the bench to "learn" while Weeden trots out there to boos through the first 6 games)
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:34 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:I'd rather not complain about his accuracy (pretty good over the last two weeks) but focus on the fact that he consistently gets happy feet in the face of a pass rush and doesn't know how to check to the right play at the line based on what the defense is giving him. Part of that is on ..... him being a rookie.


Why do people assume this to be true?

What was the excuse for him coming out of OSU with the rep for having happy feet and not handling the pressure in the pocket very well?

We assume he'll get better solely with time? That's great and all, but if that's what you were hoping for, as opposed to a guy who could actually play now, then why did we take him and hand him the job now?

BTW, there's probably a better and historical chance that he doesn't get better with time than the argument he does. I imagine a few years ago people were telling each other Vince Young (or any other first round bust like Matt Leinert, et al) just needed some time too.

Sometimes ( a lot of times, actually) guys don't get better. They just get gone. And the only improvement you get out of them is that they no longer play for you and someone else does.

I hope he does get better. A lot better. And I hope he hurries. Tick-tock..tick-tock...
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:43 pm

I never said I'll assume he'll get better; i'm inclined to believe he wont, significantly. I think his best case scenario is Drew Bledsoe, for a comp.

Just sayin', if we're going to bitch about what he sucks at.....lets make sure it's actually what he sucks at. His throws are generally pretty good for where we expect him to be, as a rookie. The rest of it is disconcerting.

(His report card, in the PD, agrees with Hiko; he gets penalized pretty heavily for overthrowing his guys who are open downfield, and for misfiring on the two picks in the fourth. Personally, I think accuracy was the least of his problems yesterday)
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:01 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:(His report card, in the PD, agrees with Hiko; he gets penalized pretty heavily for overthrowing his guys who are open downfield, and for misfiring on the two picks in the fourth. Personally, I think accuracy was the least of his problems yesterday)


How damning is it when accuracy isn't his biggest issue yet > 10% of his throws were either intercepted or underthrown to open WRs?
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:53 pm

The PD counted that pass on a rope to Jordan Cameron that he couldn't quite haul in for a TD as an overthrow, whereas I thought that was a good throw to the only spot where his guy could catch it without having it picked.

But there were at least 2 passes to Benjamin on the right sideline where the ball just hung up and were a good 3-4 yards short of where they needed to be, like he was trying to be too cute with them. Those were poor throws for sure. That throw has been murder on him all year, they should just stop calling it.
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:03 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Gradysmanldy wrote:(His report card, in the PD, agrees with Hiko; he gets penalized pretty heavily for overthrowing his guys who are open downfield, and for misfiring on the two picks in the fourth. Personally, I think accuracy was the least of his problems yesterday)


How damning is it when accuracy isn't his biggest issue yet > 10% of his throws were either intercepted or underthrown to open WRs?


Not terribly, imo. Like I said, I think he's right on pace from where we should expect him to be as a rookie on his throws; if anything, i'll bet his accuracy compares favorably to Ryan and Flacco, over their first few games. (Flacco was absolute shit for his first 5 games, but was buoyed by a strong D/run game. In 5 of his next 11 games, he had a QBR over 100. Ryan was better, he took shots downfield more frequently)

Couple of those drop balls/holding calls don't happen, and he's cruising. I feel like the biggest problem is that he regressed horribly in his pocket presence and throws down field. If we want 5-15 yard routes and a stacked box, like what Buffalo did, then McArmpunts can be in there; at least he's mobile in the pocket and can buy some time with his legs in order to get his wobbly duck throw out of his hand.

It's just a big box of shit, per usual. Line underperforms, QB misses a few wide open throws, wideouts drop easy passes, and Defense is incapable of getting off the field or stopping a guy that should be stocking shelves from ripping off 91 yards on the ground. Plus the special teams is shit.

Nothing about the team screams that they have taken a step forward in any aspect, this year, despite adding playmakers to nearly every position of need. I don't think Weeden is really the problem yet, but I agree that he's sure as shit not impressing anyone. Should get a really accurate read on his future over the last 6-8 games here.
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:04 pm

Hikohadon wrote:The PD counted that pass on a rope to Jordan Cameron that he couldn't quite haul in for a TD as an overthrow, whereas I thought that was a good throw to the only spot where his guy could catch it without having it picked.

But there were at least 2 passes to Benjamin on the right sideline where the ball just hung up and were a good 3-4 yards short of where they needed to be, like he was trying to be too cute with them. Those were poor throws for sure. That throw has been murder on him all year, they should just stop calling it.



I thought the Cameron throw was a good one too. Overthrows (if you want to call it that) > under-throwing the ball. By ~ a lot.
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:15 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:The PD counted that pass on a rope to Jordan Cameron that he couldn't quite haul in for a TD as an overthrow, whereas I thought that was a good throw to the only spot where his guy could catch it without having it picked.

But there were at least 2 passes to Benjamin on the right sideline where the ball just hung up and were a good 3-4 yards short of where they needed to be, like he was trying to be too cute with them. Those were poor throws for sure. That throw has been murder on him all year, they should just stop calling it.



I thought the Cameron throw was a good one too. Overthrows (if you want to call it that) > under-throwing the ball. By ~ a lot.


Every time they've run that fly route to Benjamin except for once in the opener, he's had a step on the DB.....and every single time, he's had to slow up to get it. Reports out of berea said that he was good at fighting for the ball in those situations, but you still shouldn't EVER put him in it. I wonder if the two big overthrows to MoMass in the opener is screwing with his head.

I don't want him to stop throwing those, because missing those throws are why the defense is letting the safety play up. Right read, bad execution.
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:40 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:How damning is it when accuracy isn't his biggest issue yet > 10% of his throws were either intercepted or underthrown to open WRs?


Not terribly, imo. Like I said, I think he's right on pace from where we should expect him to be as a rookie on his throws; if anything, i'll bet his accuracy compares favorably to Ryan and Flacco, over their first few games. (Flacco was absolute shit for his first 5 games, but was buoyed by a strong D/run game. In 5 of his next 11 games, he had a QBR over 100. Ryan was better, he took shots downfield more frequently)

Couple of those drop balls/holding calls don't happen, and he's cruising. I feel like the biggest problem is that he regressed horribly in his pocket presence and throws down field. If we want 5-15 yard routes and a stacked box, like what Buffalo did, then McArmpunts can be in there; at least he's mobile in the pocket and can buy some time with his legs in order to get his wobbly duck throw out of his hand.

It's just a big box of shit, per usual. Line underperforms, QB misses a few wide open throws, wideouts drop easy passes, and Defense is incapable of getting off the field or stopping a guy that should be stocking shelves from ripping off 91 yards on the ground. Plus the special teams is shit.

Nothing about the team screams that they have taken a step forward in any aspect, this year, despite adding playmakers to nearly every position of need. I don't think Weeden is really the problem yet, but I agree that he's sure as shit not impressing anyone. Should get a really accurate read on his future over the last 6-8 games here.[/quote]

This assessment is right in line with how I feel.

It all bad.

Defense actually looks worse than last year (although Haden's suspension certainly coincided with their fall). O Line looks only marginally better - better (but not great) at RT, Joe Thomas is not having a great year so far. Still no holes to run through, Guards tend to get beat by speed rushers and stunts. WR's still struggle to get open, get missed by the QB when they do get open.

Also agree with the Weeden "cruising" thing - dude is streaky. A couple things don't go his way and right into the tank he goes. Very discouraging. Impressed with his ability to bounce back between weeks, but mid-game? Not so much.

Actually a bit worried that - 28 or not - he might be a bit of a headcase.
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby LarsHancock » Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:09 pm

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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:53 pm

I saw your sign in the visitors EZ, 11-5 DOES start today, Lars.
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Re: 11 wins

Unread postby googleeph2 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:39 pm

Go Lars Go!
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