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Final Report Card

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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:45 am

+1.

Only theory for this draft that makes any sense. Browns felt Weedon wouldn't be there at 37, and the WR available at 67 weren't going to be >MoMass. (The receiver we need to replace) I don't have to like it, but seems thats the writing on the wall.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:08 pm

I'm of the opinion that the Browns go RT at 22 even if they take Weeden at 37 unless Floyd or Wright fell to them (at 22). RT was the position of most glaring need in the whole draft - you can't survive if you don't come out of the draft with a starting-quality RT, they didn't have anyone on the roster.

The needs coming in were QB/RB/WR/RT. But with only 3 picks in the 1st 2 rounds, you could only reasonably expect to find long-term solutions for 3 of those 4 needs.

They knew they were going RB at 4, and there was no way they weren't addressing RT, so that 3rd pick came down to either QB or WR.

So I guess it comes down to whether you like Colt/Stephen Hill more than Weeden/Cribbs (or Mo Mass).

That's why my ideal was to trade down from 4 to, say, 10, pick up an extra 2nd, and go Floyd then some combo of Weeden, Best Available RT, Best Available RB. That was the ONLY way to fill all 4 positions in the draft. Taking a WR in the 3rd round is NOT likely to be more than a temp solution.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:52 pm

Hikohadon wrote:I'm of the opinion that the Browns go RT at 22 even if they take Weeden at 37 unless Floyd or Wright fell to them (at 22). RT was the position of most glaring need in the whole draft - you can't survive if you don't come out of the draft with a starting-quality RT, they didn't have anyone on the roster.

The needs coming in were QB/RB/WR/RT. But with only 3 picks in the 1st 2 rounds, you could only reasonably expect to find long-term solutions for 3 of those 4 needs.

They knew they were going RB at 4, and there was no way they weren't addressing RT, so that 3rd pick came down to either QB or WR.

So I guess it comes down to whether you like Colt/Stephen Hill more than Weeden/Cribbs (or Mo Mass).

That's why my ideal was to trade down from 4 to, say, 10, pick up an extra 2nd, and go Floyd then some combo of Weeden, Best Available RT, Best Available RB. That was the ONLY way to fill all 4 positions in the draft. Taking a WR in the 3rd round is NOT likely to be more than a temp solution.


Fuckin' A

I think I wrote earlier somewhere...4 hole, 3 picks...and you can't really call anyone you pick in the 3 round or later as "filling a hole" with any real confidence.

So, if you look at the trades that actually happened there might have been 2 options:

1 TB traded a 4th to move up 2 spots. That doesn't help us.

2 Dallas traded #45 pick to move up from 14 to 6. Even if they would have added another later round pick to move up to #4 that might give us the picks to realistically fill those 4 holes. Floyd was taken at #13 so we are looking at maybe Wright, Martin, Weeden, and Schwartz.

Exchange TR for Wright/Martin...I probably do that. But, this is all hindsight. Far from a sure thing in real time.

One thing is for sure, all of that talk about us trading back and adding a 2013 first rounder was a damn pipe dream.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:05 pm

Only difference between TR and Wright/Martin is that again, you miss out on the elite player, and you get the good-very good potential. You can draw the parallels at whatever level you want, but if Trich = Sean Alexander/AP upside, and Floyd/Wright = GOOD #2 bananas (Julio Jones, Jeremy Maclin, etc)......dunno.

I'd definitely take the two sure very good players over the 1 elite player with the holes we have to fill, BUT: I don't think Heckert was sold on Floyd, and he just missed out on Wright, apparently. I think if Wright was Available he would have worked a tradeup back into the second to get Shwartz.

(presuming that if he got Wright at 22, he would have gone for Weeden at 37)
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby Doc » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:48 pm

I've come to like the draft, but it feels like it could have been so much more. I like the players. But it's depth/filler in many spots, which is expected. Not really addressing WR and CB is a major problem. Which is what bothered me about the trade up to #3. Losing the 4, 5, 7 lost our real trade ammo. Having 4 compensatory picks allows you to move your other late picks to move up and target guys. But we sold ourselves on TR, and obviously didn't want Blackmon.

I keep wondering why Blackmon wasn't the pick. He might not be a true #1, but since Weeden was obviously the plan after we whiffed on RG3, why not give him a fighting chance to succeed with Blackmon? Then, if you reach on Weeden at #22, at least it makes some sense. You can still get Schwartz at #37, and have your choice of whichever RB falls at #67. Then you have two 4s, and other late picks to package and move and target guys. They made up their mind early on TR/Weeden, panicked when they thought someone would move up for TR, and blew their flexibility.

Bottom line is, with 13 picks, they ended up with 3 guys who should start off the bat, 2 LBs who can maybe fight for starting jobs, and the rest is depth/ST. Just feels that where we were in this draft, it should have elicited more than it did. On a team this bad, we should have ended up with a minimum of 4 guys who could/should step in and start. We have 3. And the rest of the AFC North did better.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:30 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:WR is the slowest developing position in the NFL, which makes both of your arguments silly and a waste of bandwidth.

Instant impact WRs are rare to say the least.


THIS IS MO MASS' YEAR!

BREAK OUT, YOUNG SON!

Christ..........
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:54 pm

Yes mouth breather, that was my point entirely.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue May 01, 2012 12:00 am

BTW: you do know Mo-Mass was a 2nd rounder, right mother? I mean, why in the fuck are you even talking about him when talking about 3rd round WRs?
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue May 01, 2012 12:03 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Yes mouth breather, that was my point entirely.


It was a joke, fucko.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby FUDU » Tue May 01, 2012 12:07 am

:pop:
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue May 01, 2012 10:27 am

e0y2e3 wrote:BTW: you do know Mo-Mass was a 2nd rounder, right mother? I mean, why in the fuck are you even talking about him when talking about 3rd round WRs?


Christ, you miss my point entirely. Yes, I know he was a second rounder. What the fuck does that have to do with it. I talk about him because he's basically the guy that needs replaced. He's the "hole that needs to be filled".

I think the Hughes pick sucked. I would have rather have a WR at 67 than trade back for Hughes. I would have liked if they could get back into round 2 for a WR, maybe RR.

But what I'm not going to do is melt down all over the fucking place because the WR issue wasnt' addressed at the top of round 3 as if Calvin Fucking Johnson was sitting there and we just liked our guys better. I think MoMass sucks, but I also think it's debatable how much of an upgrade the remaining available WRs were at that point in the draft.

Fucko.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Tue May 01, 2012 2:31 pm

For every Calvin Fucking Johnson there's 2 Wes Fucking Welkers and 3 Mike Fucking Wallaces. There are countless solid WRs in the NFL that were not drafted in the 1st/2nd or drafted at all.

And again, it comes back to my earlier point (which you conveniently ignored with your enlightening breakdown of receivers taken in the last 2 years): WRs take longer to develop. More than any other position outside of QB, you take a WR now to start breaking out in 2 years.

Even if Little turns in to Larry Fitzgerald this year, the Cardinals themselves just took Floyd to put along side Fitz. One WR is not enough. And if Little fails? Lord help us, we're not fielding a competent WR until 2014 at the earliest.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue May 01, 2012 2:42 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:For every Calvin Fucking Johnson there's 2 Wes Fucking Welkers and 3 Mike Fucking Wallaces. There are countless solid WRs in the NFL that were not drafted in the 1st/2nd or drafted at all.

And again, it comes back to my earlier point (which you conveniently ignored with your enlightening breakdown of receivers taken in the last 2 years): WRs take longer to develop. More than any other position outside of QB, you take a WR now to start breaking out in 2 years.

Even if Little turns in to Larry Fitzgerald this year, the Cardinals themselves just took Floyd to put along side Fitz. One WR is not enough. And if Little fails? Lord help us, we're not fielding a competent WR until 2014 at the earliest.


OK dude. I'm pretty sure I didn't ignore your enlightening analysis that WR take longer to develop because I was responding to OldDawg.

Jeez CTB07, not everything is about you ya fuckin princess. (mooning)

BTW, did you skip over the post where I admitted that it was pretty much meaningless shitty analysis?

But, by all means, melt. We didn't take a 3rd round receiver. Draft = Epic fail. ALl of those guys are Wes Welker.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Tue May 01, 2012 2:46 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Even if Little turns in to Larry Fitzgerald this year, the Cardinals themselves just took Floyd to put along side Fitz. One WR is not enough. And if Little fails? Lord help us, we're not fielding a competent WR until 2014 at the earliest.


That's a sad fact. With Biskie failing to develop, there isn't another big, physical, good-route-running WR on this roster.....and they didnt even draft a project in that mold.

Crazy to think that this is MoMass's 4th full year.....feel like he's been teasing us for a decade.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Tue May 01, 2012 2:46 pm

Would really like them to just convert Evan Moore and get the TE shit over with.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue May 01, 2012 2:52 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:Would really like them to just convert Evan Moore and get the TE shit over with.



Problem is Moore's biggest value is matching him up with LBs and safeties as opposed to CBs. I guess you can make him Jurevicius but it's a different offense. Shit, I'd take Steve Heiden out of him but he's not even really that kind of player.

Will say this: if he's going to have a breakout year it will come with a QB like Weeden who can throw balls with pace in the seams and into tighter windows like Weeden did with Blackmon at OSU.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Tue May 01, 2012 2:58 pm

motherscratcher wrote:BTW, did you skip over the post where I admitted that it was pretty much meaningless shitty analysis?

Whoops my bad. I actually did skip over that.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue May 01, 2012 3:01 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:BTW, did you skip over the post where I admitted that it was pretty much meaningless shitty analysis?

Whoops my bad. I actually did skip over that.


See, that's my thing. I'm either full of shit or a moron, and usually both. And I know it. :thumb up:
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby pod2dawg » Tue May 01, 2012 8:39 pm

Look we plugged 3 holes in theory. The Walrus & Heck are officially on the clock.
I am no expert in grading a draft, and it does look like they had some sort of plan......maybe not one I'd agree with, but we have "improved."
The problem is the other 3 other teams in our division seem to have had a better draft IMHO.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby jb » Tue May 01, 2012 9:06 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
OldDawg wrote:Schwartz: Higher rated tackles available at the time


OK, this just torques me off.

Who had the tackles rated higher? Mel Kiper? Todd McShay?

Are you gonna sit there and tell me YOU have watched the available RT prospects extensively and YOU feel it was a reach? Or are you just basing your opinion off of what others say?

Obviously, THE BROWNS HAD HIM RATED THE HIGHEST AVAILABLE. Those other guys were there, and THEY LIKED SCHWARTZ BETTER.

Is your freakin' theory that ANY pick is a reach if he's not the best available on Mike Mayock's big board?

Here's when a pick is a reach: If you could assuredly get him later.

Taking Richardson at #3 definitely isn't a reach since any number of teams would've gladly taken him there. You can argue about the move up, but I LOVE the trade up so we'll have to agree to disagree.

Weeden was a bit of a reach at 22 - there's a good chance he might've been there at 37.

Schwartz wasn't a reach at all since he wouldn't have made it to the 3rd and they obviously liked him more than the other guys that other people had rated higher.

Hughes was an off-the-charts reach.

The rest? Late round picks. Hard to call anything a reach in those rounds with a straight face since player ratings at that point are so arbitrary from GM to GM. I guess if they drafted me in the 5th, that would be a reach.



Right on Hiko.

First of all, grades are dumb at this point until we see who can play and who can't in a few seasons. But you are spot on about this "reaching" bullshit. Hatas gotta hate I suppose.

People forget the Browns have a scouting department stocked with resources that would embarrass Todd McShay. They do original work. They aren't a cover band. Play Stairway by yourself. History and evaluation will prove their success or lack thereof and it won't be "20/20" hindsight pablum. It will be this thing called results.

People also forget that the Browns aren't drafting in a vacuum. They are drafting for systems they want to run and team needs, and I think it is now indisputable that Heckert is a need first guy. If they think that the run defense blew chances because they couldn't rotate DT's to keep them fresh and Hughes was the guy of best skill sets and value that fits Jaraun's system best, tough shit all you wanna be's. That's how it is.

Personally, I think this draft hinges on Weeden. I see him as a project in the mold of a John Flacco talent-wise. He hits that and we continue to build we contend. He flames out and we're set back. I personally like the kid as a prospect. I'm not ga ga over him like Luck or RG3, but if he projects as I think he can he'll be good enough to intend with a team around him.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby jb » Tue May 01, 2012 9:13 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:WR is the slowest developing position in the NFL, which makes both of your arguments silly and a waste of bandwidth.

Instant impact WRs are rare to say the least.


THIS IS MO MASS' YEAR!

BREAK OUT, YOUNG SON!

Christ..........



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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue May 01, 2012 9:17 pm

Take your Nazi comments and stick them up your fat bug eating mick ass, you tubby little cunt.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby jb » Tue May 01, 2012 9:22 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Take your Nazi comments and stick them up your fat bug eating mick ass, you tubby little cunt.



You celebrate Adolph's bday last week?

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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue May 01, 2012 9:36 pm

jb wrote:Right on Hiko.

First of all, grades are dumb at this point until we see who can play and who can't in a few seasons. But you are spot on about this "reaching" bullshit. Hatas gotta hate I suppose.

People forget the Browns have a scouting department stocked with resources that would embarrass Todd McShay. They do original work. They aren't a cover band. Play Stairway by yourself. History and evaluation will prove their success or lack thereof and it won't be "20/20" hindsight pablum. It will be this thing called results.

People also forget that the Browns aren't drafting in a vacuum. They are drafting for systems they want to run and team needs, and I think it is now indisputable that Heckert is a need first guy. If they think that the run defense blew chances because they couldn't rotate DT's to keep them fresh and Hughes was the guy of best skill sets and value that fits Jaraun's system best, tough shit all you wanna be's. That's how it is.

Personally, I think this draft hinges on Weeden. I see him as a project in the mold of a John Flacco talent-wise. He hits that and we continue to build we contend. He flames out and we're set back. I personally like the kid as a prospect. I'm not ga ga over him like Luck or RG3, but if he projects as I think he can he'll be good enough to intend with a team around him.


Wait. Hiko said Hughes was a reach. So he knows that one was. Except he's not an expert and isn't really qualified to make that assessment.

Everything they did was justified cuz they're the experts and they got a system and they got a plan, just like the experts and professionals with the systems and the plans in Washington.

And Lane "ain't never wrong" and he said Weeden wasn't on their 1st round board.

God dammit: you two guys slept together on draft night and shoulda got this straight. ;-) ;) :wink:

I say they reached and panicked, you say they didn't. Neither of us was in their room or know shit about their boards when all is said and done. So quit telling me your opinion is more learned or valid.

IMO they didn't maximize their value. IMO they had the opportunity to pick up multiple explosive offensive weapons. Time will tell if they got them. Guess we should close the boards til then and check back down the road ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby jb » Tue May 01, 2012 9:48 pm

peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:Right on Hiko.

First of all, grades are dumb at this point until we see who can play and who can't in a few seasons. But you are spot on about this "reaching" bullshit. Hatas gotta hate I suppose.

People forget the Browns have a scouting department stocked with resources that would embarrass Todd McShay. They do original work. They aren't a cover band. Play Stairway by yourself. History and evaluation will prove their success or lack thereof and it won't be "20/20" hindsight pablum. It will be this thing called results.

People also forget that the Browns aren't drafting in a vacuum. They are drafting for systems they want to run and team needs, and I think it is now indisputable that Heckert is a need first guy. If they think that the run defense blew chances because they couldn't rotate DT's to keep them fresh and Hughes was the guy of best skill sets and value that fits Jaraun's system best, tough shit all you wanna be's. That's how it is.

Personally, I think this draft hinges on Weeden. I see him as a project in the mold of a John Flacco talent-wise. He hits that and we continue to build we contend. He flames out and we're set back. I personally like the kid as a prospect. I'm not ga ga over him like Luck or RG3, but if he projects as I think he can he'll be good enough to intend with a team around him.


Wait. Hiko said Hughes was a reach. So he knows that one was. Except he's not an expert and isn't really qualified to make that assessment.

Everything they did was justified cuz they're the experts and they got a system and they got a plan, just like the experts and professionals with the systems and the plans in Washington.

And Lane "ain't never wrong" and he said Weeden wasn't on their 1st round board.

God dammit: you two guys slept together on draft night and shoulda got this straight. ;-) ;) :wink:

I say they reached and panicked, you say they didn't. Neither of us was in their room or know shit about their boards when all is said and done. So quit telling me your opinion is more learned or valid.

IMO they didn't maximize their value. IMO they had the opportunity to pick up multiple explosive offensive weapons. Time will tell if they got them. Guess we should close the boards til then and check back down the road ;-) ;) :wink:



Have no idea what you are quoting about Lane, but I don't post here about another sites' premium content. Would appreciate that courtesy here.

Just admit they didn't maximize your value. Time will tell, Brian. You may be right.

Frnkly, I can't get all lathered up at missing Hill or RR. Guyslike that in round 2 every draft.

For filling holes with quality prospects, this is one of the best drafts I can recall.

And I think you are minimizing some later picks. The kid from Boise always played well when I saw them play and JMJ really stood out when you made me watch Nevada to understand your point that Kaepernick was better than Cam Newton cause you were such an expert.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Tue May 01, 2012 9:50 pm

jb wrote:Personally, I think this draft hinges on Weeden. I see him as a project in the mold of a John Flacco talent-wise.

This is not the 1st time I've seen you call him John. Is there a joke in there, or do you just not know his name is Joe? (Legit curious, not busting balls.)
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby jb » Tue May 01, 2012 9:53 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:
jb wrote:Personally, I think this draft hinges on Weeden. I see him as a project in the mold of a John Flacco talent-wise.

This is not the 1st time I've seen you call him John. Is there a joke in there, or do you just not know his name is Joe? (Legit curious, not busting balls.)



Brain fart. That's all.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue May 01, 2012 9:56 pm

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:Right on Hiko.

First of all, grades are dumb at this point until we see who can play and who can't in a few seasons. But you are spot on about this "reaching" bullshit. Hatas gotta hate I suppose.

People forget the Browns have a scouting department stocked with resources that would embarrass Todd McShay. They do original work. They aren't a cover band. Play Stairway by yourself. History and evaluation will prove their success or lack thereof and it won't be "20/20" hindsight pablum. It will be this thing called results.

People also forget that the Browns aren't drafting in a vacuum. They are drafting for systems they want to run and team needs, and I think it is now indisputable that Heckert is a need first guy. If they think that the run defense blew chances because they couldn't rotate DT's to keep them fresh and Hughes was the guy of best skill sets and value that fits Jaraun's system best, tough shit all you wanna be's. That's how it is.

Personally, I think this draft hinges on Weeden. I see him as a project in the mold of a John Flacco talent-wise. He hits that and we continue to build we contend. He flames out and we're set back. I personally like the kid as a prospect. I'm not ga ga over him like Luck or RG3, but if he projects as I think he can he'll be good enough to intend with a team around him.


Wait. Hiko said Hughes was a reach. So he knows that one was. Except he's not an expert and isn't really qualified to make that assessment.

Everything they did was justified cuz they're the experts and they got a system and they got a plan, just like the experts and professionals with the systems and the plans in Washington.

And Lane "ain't never wrong" and he said Weeden wasn't on their 1st round board.

God dammit: you two guys slept together on draft night and shoulda got this straight. ;-) ;) :wink:

I say they reached and panicked, you say they didn't. Neither of us was in their room or know shit about their boards when all is said and done. So quit telling me your opinion is more learned or valid.

IMO they didn't maximize their value. IMO they had the opportunity to pick up multiple explosive offensive weapons. Time will tell if they got them. Guess we should close the boards til then and check back down the road ;-) ;) :wink:



Have no idea what you are quoting about Lane, but I don't post here about another sites' premium content. Would appreciate that courtesy here.

Just admit they didn't maximize your value. Time will tell, Brian. You may be right.

Frnkly, I can't get all lathered up at missing Hill or RR. Guyslike that in round 2 every draft.

For filling holes with quality prospects, this is one of the best drafts I can recall.

And I think you are minimizing some later picks. The kid from Boise always played well when I saw them play and JMJ really stood out when you made me watch Nevada to understand your point that Kaepernick was better than Cam Newton cause you were such an expert.


Not upset about Hill or RR. Woulda liked to see Hill here at right spot. Woulda liked to see a lot of guys here in right spots.

I have no insider info posted here. Don't have an OBR account and don't have access to it. I advised in another thread that that Lane nugget was either here or on C-Town sports and you're the one that told me Lane was dead nuts most of the time.

And JB, a couple things: you've never in your life watched a Nevada game and I'm not an expert, Kiper isn't, McShay isn't, you aren't, Hiko isn't, and Mayock isn't.

The guys who ARE the experts are the guys that traded up for Hardesty, drafted Marecic and drafted Colt. And we should by all means continue to respect their expertise.

I apologize. :thumb up:
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue May 01, 2012 10:20 pm

jb wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Take your Nazi comments and stick them up your fat bug eating mick ass, you tubby little cunt.



You celebrate Adolph's bday last week?

Eating bugs are acceptable in a survival situation. I learned that on Duel Survival.

I look more like Fred Flintstone than tubby.


Just stop the Nazi shit.
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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby jb » Thu May 03, 2012 9:14 am

e0y2e3 wrote:BTW: you do know Mo-Mass was a 2nd rounder, right mother? I mean, why in the fuck are you even talking about him when talking about 3rd round WRs?



^^^^^
Gets it. F the crying hatas

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Re: Final Report Card

Unread postby jb » Thu May 03, 2012 9:16 am

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
jb wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Take your Nazi comments and stick them up your fat bug eating mick ass, you tubby little cunt.



You celebrate Adolph's bday last week?

Eating bugs are acceptable in a survival situation. I learned that on Duel Survival.

I look more like Fred Flintstone than tubby.


Just stop the Nazi shit.


OK . I guess giants have feelings too.

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