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Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:57 am

jb wrote:Mo C has average size, average to below average speed, average ability, and is dumber than a box of cut hair.

So what make him an elite corner prospect? I see a bandwagon and benefit via association and "experts" in consensus more than a an elite prospect. He's the Justin Blackmon of DB's this draft.

Peterson was a far better prospect and he was "meh" on defense.

You aren't passing on a Suh to draft BPA offense here.


He can play?

That he smothers the WR's? That he is like a Joe Haden clone?

And he didn't look too slow running away from everyone returning kicks.

It's only progress if you eventually get somewhere.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:07 am

peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:Mo C has average size, average to below average speed, average ability, and is dumber than a box of cut hair.



Exactly.

Which is why all that SEC talent and speed he faced made the Jim Thorpe winner look like a chump all last season on the football field.

He put up two mid4.4's in his Pro Day, he hits like Haden in run support and he has arms like Haden on a bigger frame that make throwing against him difficult.

Let me know when you hve some evidence from on the field that the kid was confused and stupid. If you don't know where he is on the field, just look for the ball. He'll be around that.


SD:

Moreover when he gets his hands on the ball unlike Haden who lets them hit the ground , that puppy is going to be intercepted .

Ball hawks R Us .


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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:12 am

He went to LSU as a WR and Peterson begged him to play CB across from him.

Just to further support JB's learned position:

Little wonder he is dangerous with the ball, evidenced by a college career total of 274 yards after the theft, including an 89-yard touchdown. He also averaged 28.8 yards last year on kickoff returns, including a 99-yard touchdown.


Stood up well to being targeted by teams in 2010 while playing across from Patrick Peterson. Still learning the position, but coaches and teammates consider him a great student.


One of the nation's elite cornerbacks called by many as the best cornerback in the SEC in 2011 … Tremendous speed with shutdown skills and size … Teamed with Patrick Peterson as a sophomore to form one of the nation's best corner tandems and arguably the best tandem in school history …
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:29 am

JCoz wrote:Philly sure had a stout D last season, finishing right in the middle of the pack in yards per attempt, and just about every other passing defensive statistic, and they had 2 better CB's AND a third to boot.


Right on, surely Cromartie and Revis had nothing to do with the Jets having the 3rd best defensive passer rating, it was clearly all their stud D-Linemen...

Oh and those pesky Texans, the ONLY reason they went from absolute worst passing D in the league to the 2nd best was because of JJ Watt and Wade Phillips. Nothing to do with the 3 new starters in the secondary. Everyone knows those guys are worthless.

;-) ;) :wink:


Sure, the D-line does a ton to help stop the pass, probably more than the secondary, but don't act like the secondary has no effect on stopping the pass.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:03 pm

peeker643 wrote:He went to LSU as a WR and Peterson begged him to play CB across from him.

Just to further support JB's learned position:

Little wonder he is dangerous with the ball, evidenced by a college career total of 274 yards after the theft, including an 89-yard touchdown. He also averaged 28.8 yards last year on kickoff returns, including a 99-yard touchdown.


Stood up well to being targeted by teams in 2010 while playing across from Patrick Peterson. Still learning the position, but coaches and teammates consider him a great student.


One of the nation's elite cornerbacks called by many as the best cornerback in the SEC in 2011 … Tremendous speed with shutdown skills and size … Teamed with Patrick Peterson as a sophomore to form one of the nation's best corner tandems and arguably the best tandem in school history …



Great. let's draft him to return kicks just like Peterson.

Christ.

Minds are like parachutes. They only function for you when they fail and hit the ground at terminal velocity.

Any dooshnoz can read the GBN for months, google cut, paste, and watch You Tube highlights instead of taser videos, or question and form opinion and await outcomes. I know. I did it for years. Got all bothered about who we HAD to have. And watched it fall into a reasoned crap shoot outcomes' wise in 3 seasons.

Every. Damn. Year.

If Mo C is an elite prospect, he'd have 4.3 , go 6' 1" 205, have an IQ over 70, and without the 2nd best front 7 in the NFL errr NCAA in support.

Glad he plays well with the ball in the air. So did BE.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:15 pm

peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:Mo C has average size, average to below average speed, average ability, and is dumber than a box of cut hair.



Exactly.

Which is why all that SEC talent and speed he faced made the Jim Thorpe winner look like a chump all last season on the football field.

He put up two mid4.4's in his Pro Day, he hits like Haden in run support and he has arms like Haden on a bigger frame that make throwing against him difficult.

Let me know when you hve some evidence from on the field that the kid was confused and stupid. If you don't know where he is on the field, just look for the ball. He'll be around that.



He's not "elite". He's very good. Like Hayden. But not head and shoulders enough to totally overshadow BPA O .

That luxury doesn't exist.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:18 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
And he didn't look too slow running away from everyone.




^^^^^

Lookie what i just did.

And there is NFW I'd draft a Joe Haden clone at this point over a trade down or TR .
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:23 pm

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:Mo C has average size, average to below average speed, average ability, and is dumber than a box of cut hair.



Exactly.

Which is why all that SEC talent and speed he faced made the Jim Thorpe winner look like a chump all last season on the football field.

He put up two mid4.4's in his Pro Day, he hits like Haden in run support and he has arms like Haden on a bigger frame that make throwing against him difficult.

Let me know when you hve some evidence from on the field that the kid was confused and stupid. If you don't know where he is on the field, just look for the ball. He'll be around that.



He's not "elite". He's very good. Like Hayden. But not head and shoulders enough to totally overshadow BPA O .

That luxury doesn't exist.


What the hell is GBN?

Incidentally, I'd be more than fine with Richardson. Said that before. Just don't think H&H admit Hardesty is a fuck up this season.

Not sure you noticed, but they're a bit funny that way.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:23 pm

I wasn't aware Mo C had ruined his knees and lost his explosion/speed that made him one of the most electric guys in the SEC.

The two elite corners argument is a pretty damn sound one in this shitty draft situation the Browns are in. I mean, sure the O sucks, but the D is MILES from not sucking either.

And I'm glad after one year of Peterson you have his career tract on lock.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:23 pm

peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:Mo C has average size, average to below average speed, average ability, and is dumber than a box of cut hair.



Exactly.

Which is why all that SEC talent and speed he faced made the Jim Thorpe winner look like a chump all last season on the football field.

He put up two mid4.4's in his Pro Day,.


he ran > 4.5 at Indy and his low was 4.45 at his pro day. That's NOT elite speed for a CB prospect.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:27 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I wasn't aware Mo C had ruined his knees and lost his explosion/speed that made him one of the most electric guys in the SEC.

The two elite corners argument is a pretty damn sound one in this shitty draft situation the Browns are in. I mean, sure the O sucks, but the D is MILES from not sucking either.

And I'm glad after one year of Peterson you have his career tract on lock.


The point is any dooshbag with a browser can put up awesome you tube videos we can all nobgobble over. There's a lot of really good projects. But only elite is elite.

Taking Claiborne with the rest of this roster is a Matt Millen-esque path with CB's as his WR's.

The only way you draft defense would be if there is an elite 4 - 3 DE or MAYBE an elite CB.

There are neither. There are a bunch of "meh" DE solid prospects or > meh with question marks and Claiborne is a very good but not elite prospect .

That means you have to go BPA O or trade down and load up on BPA O & maybe a good CB , S or DE prospect or two as well.

You have a receiving core that would struggle in the MAC, no decent running backs, and Ty Detmer at QB . Not to mention a shitty right OL.

You just don't have the luxury. Thing that kills me is ya'll know I'm right. :dingle:
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:28 pm

Revis ran a 4.4 at his proday JB. Seriously, the majority of the elite corners in the NFL run right around 4.4s.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:28 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I wasn't aware Mo C had ruined his knees and lost his explosion/speed that made him one of the most electric guys in the SEC.

The two elite corners argument is a pretty damn sound one in this shitty draft situation the Browns are in. I mean, sure the O sucks, but the D is MILES from not sucking either.

And I'm glad after one year of Peterson you have his career tract on lock.


Why is he so angry? Why is he invested in TR? Why is he telling me I'm a dooshnoz for reasoning my way into thinking they're taking MC through logic and process of elimination. Why does he think I give a fuck if I'm wrong? Why does he think I'm doing anything more or less than what he's doing?

Why is he such a douchebag?

Why does he have an issue about people knowing who the fuck they're talking about? Does it bother him we previewed Mo Sanu so we could tell people who he is and what type of player he's likely to become?

Or Isaiah Pead?

And why does he think it's zero sum? You could (and teams will) select someone other than TR at RB in this draft and get a great player. I bet it happens. I bet TR isn't even the best/most productive back that comes out of this draft.

Will JB be okay if he's wrong and the Browns are better? I will if they take someone other than Claiborne and they're better.

I wonder about that sometimes. If he's more focused on pissing in people's cereal bowl and shooting them down so he can raise himself up rather than about the actual topic at hand. I will.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:31 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Revis ran a 4.4 at his proday JB. Seriously, the majority of the elite corners in the NFL run right around 4.4s.



Which makes it "average" for a good prospect.

Peterson and his 4.3 was elite.

Deion and a 4.2 was elite.

When and if Mo does what Revis does in all around game we'll talk. An acorn is not an oak. That's the whole point.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:31 pm

Nnamdi ran a 4.45 at the combine.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:32 pm

peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:I wasn't aware Mo C had ruined his knees and lost his explosion/speed that made him one of the most electric guys in the SEC.

The two elite corners argument is a pretty damn sound one in this shitty draft situation the Browns are in. I mean, sure the O sucks, but the D is MILES from not sucking either.

And I'm glad after one year of Peterson you have his career tract on lock.


Why is he so angry? Why is he invested in TR? Why is he telling me I'm a dooshnoz for reasoning my way into thinking they're taking MC through logic and process of elimination. Why does he think I give a fuck if I'm wrong? Why does he think I'm doing anything more or less than what he's doing?

Why is he such a douchebag?

Why does he have an issue about people knowing who the fuck they're talking about? Does it bother him we previewed Mo Sanu so we could tell people who he is and what type of player he's likely to become?

Or Isaiah Pead?

And why does he think it's zero sum? You could (and teams will) select someone other than TR at RB in this draft and get a great player. I bet it happens. I bet TR isn't even the best/most productive back that comes out of this draft.

Will JB be okay if he's wrong and the Browns are better? I will.

I wonder about that sometimes. If he's more focused on pissing in people's cereal bowl and shooting them down so he can raise himself up rather than about the actual topic at hand. I will.



Ur the expert. You tell me.

This may be the most passive aggressive post ever not made by me. Be real. Take your thumb out of your mouth and stop taking it personally like this is an attack on you and Jay.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:34 pm

So the two best corners in the league (hands down) are not elite becaue they are not Deion fast?

WTF are you smoking at this point?

I mean Trent Richardson isn't Jim Brown either.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:36 pm

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:I wasn't aware Mo C had ruined his knees and lost his explosion/speed that made him one of the most electric guys in the SEC.

The two elite corners argument is a pretty damn sound one in this shitty draft situation the Browns are in. I mean, sure the O sucks, but the D is MILES from not sucking either.

And I'm glad after one year of Peterson you have his career tract on lock.


Why is he so angry? Why is he invested in TR? Why is he telling me I'm a dooshnoz for reasoning my way into thinking they're taking MC through logic and process of elimination. Why does he think I give a fuck if I'm wrong? Why does he think I'm doing anything more or less than what he's doing?

Why is he such a douchebag?

Why does he have an issue about people knowing who the fuck they're talking about? Does it bother him we previewed Mo Sanu so we could tell people who he is and what type of player he's likely to become?

Or Isaiah Pead?

And why does he think it's zero sum? You could (and teams will) select someone other than TR at RB in this draft and get a great player. I bet it happens. I bet TR isn't even the best/most productive back that comes out of this draft.

Will JB be okay if he's wrong and the Browns are better? I will.

I wonder about that sometimes. If he's more focused on pissing in people's cereal bowl and shooting them down so he can raise himself up rather than about the actual topic at hand. I will.



Ur the expert. You tell me.

This may be the most passive aggressive post ever not made by me.Be real.


I think it's because you're an asshole who values his own opinion more than anyone else's.

But when I get the video from the draft party up then I can be sure.

Best part of that blog is turns you into a whiny bitch. That makes it worth every word. :nanner:
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:36 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:So the two best corners in the league (hands down) are not elite becaue they are not Deion fast?

WTF are you smoking at this point?

I mean Trent Richardson isn't Jim Brown either.



They are elite because they are the 2 best CB's on Sunday.

Are. Not "may be". there is no "prospect" in that sentence.

That has little to do with being an elite prospect with measurables.

Ad TR is not an elite NFL RB, but he is an elite RB prospect.

I know you understand this intellectually, so stop fucking with me, Lee..
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:39 pm

Bwah!!!!

Every post is about dooshnozzles and tool boxes with a blog and you tube and I'm the passive aggressive one. :salute:

You're the best. :cheers:

And quit editing your stuff. I can't keep up with your defenses.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:40 pm

peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:I wasn't aware Mo C had ruined his knees and lost his explosion/speed that made him one of the most electric guys in the SEC.

The two elite corners argument is a pretty damn sound one in this shitty draft situation the Browns are in. I mean, sure the O sucks, but the D is MILES from not sucking either.

And I'm glad after one year of Peterson you have his career tract on lock.


Why is he so angry? Why is he invested in TR? Why is he telling me I'm a dooshnoz for reasoning my way into thinking they're taking MC through logic and process of elimination. Why does he think I give a fuck if I'm wrong? Why does he think I'm doing anything more or less than what he's doing?

Why is he such a douchebag?

Why does he have an issue about people knowing who the fuck they're talking about? Does it bother him we previewed Mo Sanu so we could tell people who he is and what type of player he's likely to become?

Or Isaiah Pead?

And why does he think it's zero sum? You could (and teams will) select someone other than TR at RB in this draft and get a great player. I bet it happens. I bet TR isn't even the best/most productive back that comes out of this draft.

Will JB be okay if he's wrong and the Browns are better? I will.

I wonder about that sometimes. If he's more focused on pissing in people's cereal bowl and shooting them down so he can raise himself up rather than about the actual topic at hand. I will.



Ur the expert. You tell me.

This may be the most passive aggressive post ever not made by me.Be real.


I think it's because you're an asshole who values his own opinion more than anyone else's.

But when I get the video from the draft party up then I can be sure.

Best part of that blog is turns you into a whiny bitch. That makes it worth every word. :nanner:



When you get a bug up your butt it hits the "off" switch on your brain. You know what I'm saying. You know I make a case. You may not agree, but this P-A path you are on where you think it is an attack on your work is lame. Yu do what you can with your time and access and you do a nice job. It's just not insider insight my brother. You tube isn't 22's and you don't actually talk to scouts and you certainly aren't there. You see no more than any of us. You know what I'm saying, but bleed on. No one is whining except when it gets to the ad hominam level. Then I'm out.

So Peace out.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:42 pm

peeker643 wrote:
And quit editing your stuff. I can't keep up with your defenses.



Have to take out the anti-PC stuff. I oopsed.

No one is truly anonymous you know?

And you are insinuating context that isn't there. Again. And that's why you are taking this turn.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:42 pm

jb wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:So the two best corners in the league (hands down) are not elite becaue they are not Deion fast?

WTF are you smoking at this point?

I mean Trent Richardson isn't Jim Brown either.



They are elite because they are the 2 best CB's on Sunday.

Are. Not "may be". there is no "prospect" in that sentence.

That has little to do with being an elite prospect with measurables.

Ad TR is not an elite NFL RB, but he is an elite RB prospect.

I know you understand this intellectually, so stop fucking with me, Lee..


I see shockingly similar measurable between Mo C and most of the elite corners in the league.

Sometimes having faith in what the GM sees on film means more than TR's stupid fucking forty time.

And again, I don't lean one way or another (this team is an albatross and if they aren't getting a QB could fundamentally draft almost any spot and get better). But I do know that the GM here has a damn legit track record at identifying all-pro corners and that if he does it again godspeed.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:45 pm

If there is going to be a drunken JB vs. Peeker throwdown after the Browns pick I am flying back and getting a seat at the bar at the Wright Place on Wednesday morning.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:47 pm

Please, they are both pussycats.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:47 pm

Who's got a bug up their butt. I don't care if you read that or not. I don't care if you agree with it or not and I don't care to be considered some type of insider when I'm not. I put up all that stuff as a conglomeration of guys the Browns may be interested in so people can take a look and get a feel. That's it.

Jay does a nice job on the more technical aspects of it but not in an expert capacity.

So why does that make my opinion on who they're taking any less valuable or reasoned than yours? I gave you my rationale.

You give me 'elite prospect'. Awesome.

But don't puss out and run away when you're the one poking the fucking dog with the stick.

You give yourself too much credit man. Your act doesn't bther me at all. I enjoy it. But It's a repeat. I've seen it before. Like you've seen mine.

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:I wasn't aware Mo C had ruined his knees and lost his explosion/speed that made him one of the most electric guys in the SEC.

The two elite corners argument is a pretty damn sound one in this shitty draft situation the Browns are in. I mean, sure the O sucks, but the D is MILES from not sucking either.

And I'm glad after one year of Peterson you have his career tract on lock.


Why is he so angry? Why is he invested in TR? Why is he telling me I'm a dooshnoz for reasoning my way into thinking they're taking MC through logic and process of elimination. Why does he think I give a fuck if I'm wrong? Why does he think I'm doing anything more or less than what he's doing?

Why is he such a douchebag?

Why does he have an issue about people knowing who the fuck they're talking about? Does it bother him we previewed Mo Sanu so we could tell people who he is and what type of player he's likely to become?

Or Isaiah Pead?

And why does he think it's zero sum? You could (and teams will) select someone other than TR at RB in this draft and get a great player. I bet it happens. I bet TR isn't even the best/most productive back that comes out of this draft.

Will JB be okay if he's wrong and the Browns are better? I will.

I wonder about that sometimes. If he's more focused on pissing in people's cereal bowl and shooting them down so he can raise himself up rather than about the actual topic at hand. I will.



Ur the expert. You tell me.

This may be the most passive aggressive post ever not made by me.Be real.


I think it's because you're an asshole who values his own opinion more than anyone else's.

But when I get the video from the draft party up then I can be sure.

Best part of that blog is turns you into a whiny bitch. That makes it worth every word. :nanner:



When you get a bug up your butt it hits the "off" switch on your brain. You know what I'm saying. You know I make a case. You may not agree, but this P-A path you are on where you think it is an attack on your work is lame. Yu do what you can with your time and access and you do a nice job. It's just not insider insight my brother. You tube isn't 22's and you don't actually talk to scouts and you certainly aren't there. You see no more than any of us. You know what I'm saying, but bleed on. No one is whining except when it gets to the ad hominam level. Then I'm out.

So Peace out.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:48 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:I see shockingly similar measurable between Mo C and most of the elite corners in the league.

Sometimes having faith in what the GM sees on film means more than TR's stupid fucking forty time.

And again, I don't lean one way or another (this team is an albatross and if they aren't getting a QB could fundamentally draft almost any spot and get better). But I do know that the GM here has a damn legit track record at identifying all-pro corners and that if he does it again godspeed.



Man, we re not communicating.

I never said Mo was Alpo. I did cheap shot his wonderluc go round to be a dick.

Mo has a chance to be a very good NFL CB. Just like a dozen other guys we can select from at positions of far higher need. Why in the world would you go SPA at a position of far less need with this offense? Is is that binary at 4. Unless ur talking trade down. Then I'm in now. For a player at a position of need to jump as clear BPA at 4, cat had better be elite in every phase. Measurables, size, skills; the whole 9 yards.

And if heckert can't do better than draft CB's, then it'll take a lot longer than 6 drafts.

BTW - Interesteing point - who do you consider as an elite CB anymore? Does tat player even exist now in the NFL?
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:49 pm

Ziner wrote:If there is going to be a drunken JB vs. Peeker throwdown after the Browns pick I am flying back and getting a seat at the bar at the Wright Place on Wednesday morning.



No. I am too old.

And I am not bringing my transcripts.

I may just not show at all now. That will show all of you.

^^^

(For Peeker, FMB and CDT to tee of on.)
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:52 pm

Ziner's point about the Jets is a viable one.

Their defense has been carried by their secondary, not by their D-Line.

When you aren't elite at anything there is some credence to trying to become elite at another position and right now Haden is pretty universally a top five corner (if not higher).

This franchise isn't good at anything, trying to become elite at one thing is every bit as viable a strategy as trying to become okay at multiple things. When you are as big a flaming bag of shit as they are you draft whoever you feel is the best prospect (and if Heckert feels that way about Mo you do it).
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:52 pm

Really, if you call wanting to avoid the goofy inter webs ad hominim drama running away, I call it taking a high road. I just have no interest. I;m not playing.

Jay does a nice job with the resources at hand. Just like you do. Well worth a read. Cheers.





peeker643 wrote:Who's got a bug up their butt. I don't care if you read that or not. I don't care if you agree with it or not and I don't care to be considered some type of insider when I'm not. I put up all that stuff as a conglomeration of guys the Browns may be interested in so people can take a look and get a feel. That's it.

Jay does a nice job on the more technical aspects of it but not in an expert capacity.

So why does that make my opinion on who they're taking any less valuable or reasoned than yours? I gave you my rationale.

You give me 'elite prospect'. Awesome.

But don't puss out and run away when you're the one poking the fucking dog with the stick.

You give yourself too much credit man. Your act doesn't bther me at all. I enjoy it. But It's a repeat. I've seen it before. Like you've seen mine.

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:I wasn't aware Mo C had ruined his knees and lost his explosion/speed that made him one of the most electric guys in the SEC.

The two elite corners argument is a pretty damn sound one in this shitty draft situation the Browns are in. I mean, sure the O sucks, but the D is MILES from not sucking either.

And I'm glad after one year of Peterson you have his career tract on lock.


Why is he so angry? Why is he invested in TR? Why is he telling me I'm a dooshnoz for reasoning my way into thinking they're taking MC through logic and process of elimination. Why does he think I give a fuck if I'm wrong? Why does he think I'm doing anything more or less than what he's doing?

Why is he such a douchebag?

Why does he have an issue about people knowing who the fuck they're talking about? Does it bother him we previewed Mo Sanu so we could tell people who he is and what type of player he's likely to become?

Or Isaiah Pead?

And why does he think it's zero sum? You could (and teams will) select someone other than TR at RB in this draft and get a great player. I bet it happens. I bet TR isn't even the best/most productive back that comes out of this draft.

Will JB be okay if he's wrong and the Browns are better? I will.

I wonder about that sometimes. If he's more focused on pissing in people's cereal bowl and shooting them down so he can raise himself up rather than about the actual topic at hand. I will.



Ur the expert. You tell me.

This may be the most passive aggressive post ever not made by me.Be real.


I think it's because you're an asshole who values his own opinion more than anyone else's.

But when I get the video from the draft party up then I can be sure.

Best part of that blog is turns you into a whiny bitch. That makes it worth every word. :nanner:



When you get a bug up your butt it hits the "off" switch on your brain. You know what I'm saying. You know I make a case. You may not agree, but this P-A path you are on where you think it is an attack on your work is lame. Yu do what you can with your time and access and you do a nice job. It's just not insider insight my brother. You tube isn't 22's and you don't actually talk to scouts and you certainly aren't there. You see no more than any of us. You know what I'm saying, but bleed on. No one is whining except when it gets to the ad hominam level. Then I'm out.

So Peace out.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:54 pm

Serioulsy dude. I have no issues with your posts. You're reading into it what isn't there.

I am as far away from an expert as one can get.

Doesn't mean my opinion isn't reasoned or valid. No more so or less than yours.

But don't tell me I'm bugging out when I'm not at all. (smoke)
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:57 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Ziner's point about the Jets is a viable one.

Their defense has been carried by their secondary, not by their D-Line.

When you aren't elite at anything there is some credence to trying to become elite at another position and right now Haden is pretty universally a top five corner (if not higher).

This franchise isn't good at anything, trying to become elite at one thing is every bit as viable a strategy as trying to become okay at multiple things. When you are as big a flaming bag of shit as they are you draft whoever you feel is the best prospect (and if Heckert feels that way about Mo you do it).



Um, you do realize that by any objective me sure we already have a better pass D than the Jets, right?

Yeah, I believe in stat limitations as well, but I believe in balance more. Right now you can't build a team on a belief that you will always be the bag on fire by the door after kids ring the doorbell and bolt. The O is gaedaweful Lee. You can't have that sort of imbalance and compete in a passing offense league.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:59 pm

Ziner wrote:If there is going to be a drunken JB vs. Peeker throwdown after the Browns pick I am flying back and getting a seat at the bar at the Wright Place on Wednesday morning.


I don't want that, since that'll mean that one of them will inevitably spill their beer on me.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:03 pm

The Jets were carried to two title teams by their secondary.

The entire rest of their team falling apart impacted the total numbers last year, let's not pretend like Revis and Cromartie didn't carry that team (with Sanchez) to a title game though.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:05 pm

jb wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Ziner's point about the Jets is a viable one.

Their defense has been carried by their secondary, not by their D-Line.

When you aren't elite at anything there is some credence to trying to become elite at another position and right now Haden is pretty universally a top five corner (if not higher).

This franchise isn't good at anything, trying to become elite at one thing is every bit as viable a strategy as trying to become okay at multiple things. When you are as big a flaming bag of shit as they are you draft whoever you feel is the best prospect (and if Heckert feels that way about Mo you do it).



Um, you do realize that by any objective me sure we already have a better pass D than the Jets, right?

Yeah, I believe in stat limitations as well, but I believe in balance more. Right now you can't build a team on a belief that you will always be the bag on fire by the door after kids ring the doorbell and bolt. The O is gaedaweful Lee. You can't have that sort of imbalance and compete in a passing offense league.


I don't understand, they are probably three more drafts away from mattering, drafting the best player right now makes more sense then building fake ass balance.

And let's see how that D shows this year against something other than the single easiest schedule I have seen since the rebirth.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:05 pm

jb wrote:

Um, you do realize that by any objective me sure we already have a better pass D than the Jets, right?



Passer Rating:

NYJ 69.6
CLE 80.6

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... on/defense

They also beat us on completion percentage and INTs.

But hey, we got them on yards per game... might have something to do giving up 147 per on the ground though...Not sure what else is measurable?



Is it the biggest need? No, probably not. But shit, a RB in the top 5. Kill me.



I have been looking for yards per game for WRs vs each defense, anyone know where they track that?
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:27 pm

Football Outsiders have the Jets as the second best pass D last year: http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

The Browns.... well not in the top 16....

(keep scrolling down and you'll find your WR info Ziner, including Cleveland's ranking of 26th in the league against #2 WRs)
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:36 pm

Passer Rating:

NYJ 69.6
CLE 80.6

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... on/defense

They also beat us on completion percentage and INTs.



The Browns pass defense is not good, no matter how much people want to spout it. Just look at the list of QB's the Browns faced last year and that will explain everything.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:54 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Football Outsiders have the Jets as the second best pass D last year: http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

The Browns.... well not in the top 16....

(keep scrolling down and you'll find your WR info Ziner, including Cleveland's ranking of 26th in the league against #2 WRs)


Thanks, thats pretty interesting. If only we had a chance to shore up that huge CB2 weakness...
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:59 pm

Ziner wrote:
jb wrote:

Um, you do realize that by any objective me sure we already have a better pass D than the Jets, right?



Passer Rating:

NYJ 69.6
CLE 80.6

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... on/defense

They also beat us on completion percentage and INTs.

But hey, we got them on yards per game... might have something to do giving up 147 per on the ground though...Not sure what else is measurable?



Is it the biggest need? No, probably not. But shit, a RB in the top 5. Kill me.



I have been looking for yards per game for WRs vs each defense, anyone know where they track that?



OK, you found 2 OM's. Got me.

YPC, yards, and quite a few others.

Again, I think Lee already summed it up:

When building a team do you build on strength and hope one / two units can carry the day, or do you build overall?

But one other question might be; how much does defend really matter right now, anyway?

I could see loading up an are on offense, but loading up on defense now? Ehhh, gonna have to make me a better case than at least Doo Doo did when he was banging that drum, and I still wasn't really sold..
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:02 pm

I could see loading up an are on offense, but loading up on defense now? Ehhh, gonna have to make me a better case than at least Doo Doo did when he was banging that drum, and I still wasn't really sold.



Football has been built as a copycat league. With everyone focusing on O, the Browns could be one of the 1st-movers to try and correct that by focusing on D and hell, it just may be that they get a competitive advantage to boot.


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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:16 pm

Passing and stopping the pass are the two biggest part of the game.

Making a unit that is mmmmmmmmaybe okay (but not really, as your #2 CB is dead) very good helps stop the pass.

I'd rather a pass rusher, but the Browns can't even suck during a year with one available and we all know how impossible finding a QB is.

They still have plenty of picks to start plugging holes in the shinking ship that is this franchise.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby Govbarney » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:48 pm

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
I could see loading up an are on offense, but loading up on defense now? Ehhh, gonna have to make me a better case than at least Doo Doo did when he was banging that drum, and I still wasn't really sold.



Football has been built as a copycat league. With everyone focusing on O, the Browns could be one of the 1st-movers to try and correct that by focusing on D and hell, it just may be that they get a competitive advantage to boot.


When everyone zigs, you zag.


One of the smartest damn things I have seen written on this site.
Screw what everyone else does, if you want to win you have to be a trendsetter. People don't remember Paul Brown, Vince Lombardi, Joe Walsh , and Bill Parcels b/c they where great imitators, they where the best because they thought outside the box, and gained a competitive advantage.
That being said , I don't see the current front office as being capable of doing this. They seem content with being lazy , and trying to win with a 3 decade + old system, as opposed to being innovative.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby rk » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:02 pm

jb wrote:
Ziner wrote:If there is going to be a drunken JB vs. Peeker throwdown after the Browns pick I am flying back and getting a seat at the bar at the Wright Place on Wednesday morning.



No. I am too old.


You mispelled '...too drunk.'

This is a moot converstation because the Browns won't pick him but I am confused over your angst with his spec sheet and his actual play and how you square that with pre-2010 draft Haden hype. Dude covered everything in college and then ran a 4.5+. Yet he is capable of shutting anyone in the NFL down. You see his ridiculous closing speed on almost every ball thrown in his direction and yet that -never- showed up in the workout results. I have no idea what Haden scored on the Wonderlic but since he went to Florida I doubt he spent a lot of time studying for it.

Whatever. Still moot. Browns are picking Blackmon or Richardson. Hell there's a chance that pothead Jenkins is there at 22 and Blackmon/Jenkins would be better than Claiborne/Wright. But trust in Heckert. Dude spends so much time figuring out draft prospects he forgets that free agency even exists.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:07 pm

They ain't picking Blackmon.

And you should contribute.

And this statement is crazy: Yet he is capable of shutting anyone in the NFL down.

He's never played one down on Sunday.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby rk » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:10 pm

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
I could see loading up an are on offense, but loading up on defense now? Ehhh, gonna have to make me a better case than at least Doo Doo did when he was banging that drum, and I still wasn't really sold.



Football has been built as a copycat league. With everyone focusing on O, the Browns could be one of the 1st-movers to try and correct that by focusing on D and hell, it just may be that they get a competitive advantage to boot.


When everyone zigs, you zag.


Yes except that everyone is focused on QBs, CBs, WRs, and pass rushers (with a smattering of receiving TEs mixed in). So I'm not sure I see how going WR or CB here is anything but copycatting.

You want to zag you pick the 3-tool (block, run, catch) RB and get a RT at 22. Continue building an offense that is centered around the RB. I'm not advocating that but just stating that would be the anti-conventional logic move.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:19 pm

Ha! I challenge you to look at the thread title.

I do see ya what you're saying: you're making my Blackmon argument but with Claiborne. I get that. I just don't agree with it.

I think locking in Claiborne with Haden is more impactful than taking Richardson and watching teams play Peyton Hillis defense against them again this year.

Say what we will about Hillis but even with his ALl Pro season this team was ragged and not at all explosive. And Hillis caught 60+ balls and picked up all the blitzes too that season.

If TR could give you 60+ catches for 500 yards, 1200 yds rushing and 13 TDs overall plus blitz pickups you'd consider him a smashing success, no? Well they got that two season ago and won 5 games and they didn't get it this past year and won 4. And the guy that gave it to them in 2010 was a 6th round pick that another club quit on.

And hey, I didn't have to denigrate anyone or anything in order to say that.

Progress? Growth?

Boring?

jb wrote:Really, if you call wanting to avoid the goofy inter webs ad hominim drama running away, I call it taking a high road. I just have no interest. I;m not playing.

Jay does a nice job with the resources at hand. Just like you do. Well worth a read. Cheers.





peeker643 wrote:Who's got a bug up their butt. I don't care if you read that or not. I don't care if you agree with it or not and I don't care to be considered some type of insider when I'm not. I put up all that stuff as a conglomeration of guys the Browns may be interested in so people can take a look and get a feel. That's it.

Jay does a nice job on the more technical aspects of it but not in an expert capacity.

So why does that make my opinion on who they're taking any less valuable or reasoned than yours? I gave you my rationale.

You give me 'elite prospect'. Awesome.

But don't puss out and run away when you're the one poking the fucking dog with the stick.

You give yourself too much credit man. Your act doesn't bther me at all. I enjoy it. But It's a repeat. I've seen it before. Like you've seen mine.

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:I wasn't aware Mo C had ruined his knees and lost his explosion/speed that made him one of the most electric guys in the SEC.

The two elite corners argument is a pretty damn sound one in this shitty draft situation the Browns are in. I mean, sure the O sucks, but the D is MILES from not sucking either.

And I'm glad after one year of Peterson you have his career tract on lock.


Why is he so angry? Why is he invested in TR? Why is he telling me I'm a dooshnoz for reasoning my way into thinking they're taking MC through logic and process of elimination. Why does he think I give a fuck if I'm wrong? Why does he think I'm doing anything more or less than what he's doing?

Why is he such a douchebag?

Why does he have an issue about people knowing who the fuck they're talking about? Does it bother him we previewed Mo Sanu so we could tell people who he is and what type of player he's likely to become?

Or Isaiah Pead?

And why does he think it's zero sum? You could (and teams will) select someone other than TR at RB in this draft and get a great player. I bet it happens. I bet TR isn't even the best/most productive back that comes out of this draft.

Will JB be okay if he's wrong and the Browns are better? I will.

I wonder about that sometimes. If he's more focused on pissing in people's cereal bowl and shooting them down so he can raise himself up rather than about the actual topic at hand. I will.



Ur the expert. You tell me.

This may be the most passive aggressive post ever not made by me.Be real.


I think it's because you're an asshole who values his own opinion more than anyone else's.

But when I get the video from the draft party up then I can be sure.

Best part of that blog is turns you into a whiny bitch. That makes it worth every word. :nanner:



When you get a bug up your butt it hits the "off" switch on your brain. You know what I'm saying. You know I make a case. You may not agree, but this P-A path you are on where you think it is an attack on your work is lame. Yu do what you can with your time and access and you do a nice job. It's just not insider insight my brother. You tube isn't 22's and you don't actually talk to scouts and you certainly aren't there. You see no more than any of us. You know what I'm saying, but bleed on. No one is whining except when it gets to the ad hominam level. Then I'm out.

So Peace out.
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:23 pm

peeker643 wrote:
And hey, I didn't have to denigrate anyone or anything in order to say that.


Wasn't that just a passive aggressive way of denigrating someone?
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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:30 pm

rk wrote:
rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
I could see loading up an are on offense, but loading up on defense now? Ehhh, gonna have to make me a better case than at least Doo Doo did when he was banging that drum, and I still wasn't really sold.



Football has been built as a copycat league. With everyone focusing on O, the Browns could be one of the 1st-movers to try and correct that by focusing on D and hell, it just may be that they get a competitive advantage to boot.


When everyone zigs, you zag.


Yes except that everyone is focused on QBs, CBs, WRs, and pass rushers (with a smattering of receiving TEs mixed in). So I'm not sure I see how going WR or CB here is anything but copycatting.

You want to zag you pick the 3-tool (block, run, catch) RB and get a RT at 22. Continue building an offense that is centered around the RB. I'm not advocating that but just stating that would be the anti-conventional logic move.



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Re: Peeker calls himself an expert and says draft a DB

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:32 pm

Ziner wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
And hey, I didn't have to denigrate anyone or anything in order to say that.


Wasn't that just a passive aggressive way of denigrating someone?


I guess if you're a pansy assed puss bag you could think that.

Better.

I'm usually a far more up front type.

Example- You're a tot-loving, snowboard-humping bag of dicks.

Like that ;-) ;) :wink:
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


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