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You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Talk Browns football and discuss the NFL here.

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Provided the Browns do not trade down, who should they select with the 4th pick?

Poll ended at Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:13 pm

Justin Blackmon WR Oklahoma St
7
15%
Trent Richardson RB Alabama
28
60%
Ryan Tannehill QB Texas A&M
5
11%
Matt Kalil OT USC
1
2%
Fletcher Cox DT Mississippi St
0
No votes
Morris Claiborne CB LSU
5
11%
Quinton Coples DE North Carolina
0
No votes
Riley Reiff OT Iowa
0
No votes
Melvin Ingram DE/OLB South Carolina
0
No votes
Other
1
2%
 
Total votes : 47

Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby pup » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:53 am

From 12/19/11:
Draft risers

Ryan Tannehill (6-2, 222), senior, QB, Texas A&M

Tannehill’s NFL potential finally took off after winning the starting job during the 2010 season. So far this year, he hasn't disappointed.

Tannehill has displayed much better pocket sense. Combined with his foot quickness and athleticism, he moves efficiently to avoid pressure and can re-set, either in the pocket or outside, with accurate throws. He does an excellent job of reading defenses. When he finds open receivers, Tannehill gets rid of the ball quickly and is usually on target. He is more poised than before, and doesn't panic as plays breakdown. Also, he doesn't throw the ball up for grabs to avoid sacks.

Tannehill has good arm strength and does a good job of throwing the ball where only the receiver can make a play. For a player who was viewed as a likely fourth-round pick entering the 2011 season, we have heard scouts talk about him being a high second-round pick now. PROJECTED: Second round.


Also:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Sunday-Blitz-2109.html

Some excerpts:

About one month ago, Tannehill wasn’t even the consensus third best quarterback in the draft. It was between him, Brandon Weeden and Kirk Cousins.


But his stock spike was manufactured by one thing: quarterback desperation.


Said a personnel director: “No one can tell you he’s a sure thing. But people don’t stick to their grades at the quarterback position.”

If people did stick to their grades, Tannehill would be a mid-second round pick, based on the eight personnel men I polled on Tannehill. None of them said they would choose Tannehill in the first round.


"He has first round skills,” the general manager said. A second general manager went so far as to say Tannehill’s traits may be better than Andrew Luck’s.

But it takes more than traits to make a prospect. The GM also said Tannehill does not have Luck’s feel for the game. A personnel director questioned Tannehill’s decision making. Others pointed out that he had repeated chances to lead the Aggies to comeback victories, but wasn’t able to. His record as a starter last season was 7-6. Against Texas, which was arguably his most important game, he threw three picks and completed 41 percent of his passes in a tough loss.


Ultimately, Tannehill’s meteoric rise probably will not work out well for the team that drafts him, or for Tannehill
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby mistero » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:03 am

Oh, I could find a ton of quotes that put him soundly in the top 10 of this draft. I could find guys
who like him
better than Luck. That would be fun. Have a little tit for tat quote off.

But what will that prove. It's all in Heckert's hands now. I stick by my draft strategy. You can get a RB nearly as good at 37. You can get a WR nearly as good at 22. You can't get another QB beyond pick 4 until 2013 ,maybe 2014. It's now or never.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby pup » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:57 am

mistero wrote:Oh, I could find a ton of quotes that put him soundly in the top 10 of this draft. I could find guys
who like him
better than Luck. That would be fun. Have a little tit for tat quote off.

Not from 2 months ago you couldn't. Simply refuting your claim this is a figment of everyone else's imagination.

But what will that prove. It's all in Heckert's hands now. I stick by my draft strategy. You can get a RB nearly as good at 37. You can get a WR nearly as good at 22. You can't get another QB beyond pick 4 until 2013 ,maybe 2014. It's now or never.
Unless you think Weeden or Cousins are just as good, then you could get a QB that is just as good at 22 or 37. And that was the prevailing thought by EVERYONE before they needed news after the RGIII trade. See, they thought they would have that story right up until the draft. The Rams screwed them over as well, by taking the deal so early. So they have to create a buzz. To create a buzz in a draft you need 2 things. Position (usually QB) and competition for that position. Cleveland and Miami. If not for that...what would people be talking about in this draft? Kalil or Claiborne? Please.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby mistero » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:12 am

Agree to disagree. Anyone who has Weeden and Cousins grouped in with Tannehill doesn't share the same evaluation I do. We might as well be speaking different languages.

I think Tannehill is so much better than McCoy it's not worth debating. I think Tannehill will be gone by pick 8. I like Tannehill better than Barkley. I think 2013 looks like a weak QB class. I think until we fix the QB position nothing else matters.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:57 am

pup wrote:
mistero wrote:Oh, I could find a ton of quotes that put him soundly in the top 10 of this draft. I could find guys
who like him
better than Luck. That would be fun. Have a little tit for tat quote off.

Not from 2 months ago you couldn't. Simply refuting your claim this is a figment of everyone else's imagination.

But what will that prove. It's all in Heckert's hands now. I stick by my draft strategy. You can get a RB nearly as good at 37. You can get a WR nearly as good at 22. You can't get another QB beyond pick 4 until 2013 ,maybe 2014. It's now or never.
Unless you think Weeden or Cousins are just as good, then you could get a QB that is just as good at 22 or 37. And that was the prevailing thought by EVERYONE before they needed news after the RGIII trade. See, they thought they would have that story right up until the draft. The Rams screwed them over as well, by taking the deal so early. So they have to create a buzz. To create a buzz in a draft you need 2 things. Position (usually QB) and competition for that position. Cleveland and Miami. If not for that...what would people be talking about in this draft? Kalil or Claiborne? Please.


SD:

Player evals move all the time , early mocks had Tannehill going to Miami , now there are some seeing him chosen at three in a trade up .

Phillip Rivers was originally liste as a second round pick because of that hitch in his throwing motion , while Mike Mayock had Gabbert #1 and Newton as his third QB up until draft day .

Means nothing .

With less than a month to the draft Ryan is now considered a pick who will be chosen in the top ten due to team needs .

Is he a top ten pick

Hell No , I'm not making that case or is Mistero .

However if the only water is a muddy hoof print between you and a thousand miles of dessert , you best get to drinking .

We cannot compound the miss of R3 by passing onthis kid because the landscape and prospect for getting better next year really is that bleak .

If the team improves at all the cost to get a good QB will cost us 2014 assetts to move up , and if we have the same shit record our improvement will be tied to a rookie .

Get him now while you have the luxury its the same difference with less pressure to find an immediate starter .

He's the third best QB on the board not the third best palyer in the draft as QB's rarely are .

There are a dozen other ways to go on RB wideout CB Ol linebcker DL and safety .

These clowns now have to hedge their bets , if they can't develop a 6'4" QB with athleticism size strength speed and a good arm from a WCO offense into a decent enough QB we can compete with , they'll just ahe to keep icking number one until they find somebody better than their coaching or until their fired and replaced with somebody who can .

Butt spare me the Troika of McCoy Wallace and Lewis that won 4 games last year , don't need to see that act again , just because FMB bought his popcorn has front row seats and his McCoy bobblehead is all greaed up and ready so he can play with himself
in ignorant bliss.

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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby pup » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:32 am

I got no qualms with someone sticking to their guns. If you have Ryan as worthy of a top 5 slot, you should certainly take him in the top 5.

We just disagree that he is worthy. And like I said, we are probably all wrong. He will probably be Joe Flaccoish. Not good enough, but at least we won't be sticking needles in our eyes.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby OldDawg » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:40 am

pup wrote:He will probably be Joe Flaccoish. Not good enough, but at least we won't be sticking needles in our eyes.

This is what I am thinking about him. And if he is Flaccoish, he may be an upgrade to McCoy, but is he really worthy of the 4th pick. I think you need much better in the top 5. I mean, do you spend a #4 pick and just make slight improvements to the QB position??
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:58 am

As I've said before, it is very easy to be better than Colt McCoy. There's almost 100% chance that Tannehill is better than Colt McCoy.

And if "better than Colt McCoy" were the only requirement needed for a Cleveland QB to win the SB, then I say draft away.

But at #4, I don't think you draft a guy unless he is a franchise QB, good enough to win SB's. And if you don't think Tannehill is that, then you don't waste your time drafting him at #4. Because if he isn't a franchise/good enough to win SB's QB, then you blow another 3-4 years (and, say, Trent Richardson) finding that out.

So if one considers Tannehill Flacco-ish and doesn't consider Flacco a franchise, SB-type QB, then it is logical to avoid Tannehill.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:06 pm

OldDawg wrote:
pup wrote:He will probably be Joe Flaccoish. Not good enough, but at least we won't be sticking needles in our eyes.

This is what I am thinking about him. And if he is Flaccoish, he may be an upgrade to McCoy, but is he really worthy of the 4th pick. I think you need much better in the top 5. I mean, do you spend a #4 pick and just make slight improvements to the QB position??



SD:

Joe Flacco has led his team to the playoffs his first four years , and was 1half second on a possecion call in the endzone from going to the Superbowl after leading his team to the division crown this year .

He is inches away from the discussion of being a premium type signal caller .

Colt McCoy has never won a division game and has six wins in 21 starts IIRC .

Thats not a slight improvement , thats driving a 300 convertable instead of hitchhiking.

Shefter is on the herd as we speak , advocating the Dulphins consider trading up for Tannehill so they don't get leapfrogged , their plan all along was to sit and wait for him which is why they didn't go all in on Flynn ,

They'll get stole worse than the Browns if they sit on their butts and wait for him to drop, and the Vikings just announced their pick is up for sale .

No way the Browns will offer sensible compensation and grab the pick themselves , so I'm now officially on Philly trade watch .

Kafka the 15 the 46 and the 51st gives me a QB and five picks of the 50 best players left in the draft after Rg3 and Luck clear the board and 12 oter choices clear the rest of the deck.

Gives me a guy who I can plug in immediately into the QB rotation with the idea he can start , and the chance to add five starters .



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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:25 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:No way the Browns will offer sensible compensation and grab the pick themselves


That's because "sensible compensation" to TRADE UP to get Tannehill doesn't exist.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby OldDawg » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:26 pm

That's great. What would Flacco have looked like on these Browns? Slightly better than McCoy, I suspect.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:31 pm

OldDawg wrote:That's great. What would Flacco have looked like on these Browns? Slightly better than McCoy, I suspect.


A good question.

Disregarding giving them a prime pick, would you trade the #4 pick to the Ravens for Flacco right now?

How many more wins do the Browns have last year with Flacco at QB?

How many more wins do the Browns have last year with with Brady/Brees/Rodgers at QB?
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:36 pm

OldDawg wrote:That's great. What would Flacco have looked like on these Browns? Slightly better than McCoy, I suspect.


SD:

Bet he could throw all the passes you didn't see from Colt , like ther 75% of the throws in an offense that aren't a five yard completion .

Josh Cribbs is a better QB than McCoy and he's a punt returner .

Its not about just getting better than McCoy , NFL minimum would be an improvement over three backups .

Colt McCoy is the Walleye Ranier of QB's when he's no longer on this roster we will have improved.


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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Hikohadon » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:54 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:Colt McCoy is the Walleye Ranier of QB's when he's no longer on this roster we will have improved.

SoulDawg


If Colt McCoy were at least as make-believe productive this year as Rainer was, then a whole lot of you hoping that they'll explode will be mildly disappointed.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:38 am

Hikohadon wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:Colt McCoy is the Walleye Ranier of QB's when he's no longer on this roster we will have improved.

SoulDawg


If Colt McCoy were at least as make-believe productive this year as Rainer was, then a whole lot of you hoping that they'll explode will be mildly disappointed.


SD:

Don't get caught up in my criticism of then screwing up , that I hate the team .

I'm not eyesore.

It is what it is , we had a chance to get one of the greatest talents out of the draft to play QB in a generation , giving us the best signal caller on the Browns since the great Otto Graham .

Missing that pick still feels like a kick in the guts , and its one that will never go away until you replace all those possibilitiess with someone who gives you credence to consider all the possibilities.

McCoy is neither peanut butter or Jam to spice up a sandwhich let alone Miracle Whip..

He's Plain White Bread .

It will get you bye in a storm but if your gonna make a pilgrimage you need more much much more.

I wanted him replaced duing the Cam Newton draft to hedge our bets to ward off the problems I predicted that would happen if McCoy failed and we didn't hedge our bets .

We'd be right here where we are now .

Behind the eightball , and not ahead of the game .

I railed about the ignorant policy of giving that Mutt the job sans all and any competition , a policy now rescinded (they claim).

We had choices in that draft and multiple signal callers who were upgrades over that Fuck , and we callously chose to by pass them , not from merit or exemplaray play , but thru sheer arrogance and hubris , and the pleadings of a dumb ass fan base who fell in luv with a cute little Monkey who can't play the damn game and a phat wortless pimp who wanted to prove he drafted Joe Montanna.

Thus if we cannot salvage a signal caller out of the debacle which has been the start of this offseason so far , another year of Colt represents an even greater setback to the team who will have progressed and gotten further away in the draft from economically finding a signal caller every inch we improve.

With McCoy playing with the known handicap of his limitations in throwing the ball , we're trying to effectively compete against better teams like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest .

Enough

Tannehill represents a chance to salvage this draft , He gives me a QB this year , and I'm not forced to go looking next year , .

I have the luxury of trotting out cannon fodder early in the season while i ramp him upto speed about the nuances of the pro game .

If the Medussa of Wallace and McCoy blow up and win and he can't play because they are doing so well , so much the better .

It will mean we are winning , not sucking

It will mean we have a team worth supporting , and not some ignorant wreck of a joke that we've been ,over these last long years,

Been far too long since we were perenial contenders and earned the name and the loyalty and pride as The Cleveland Browns .

and

We'll never get back until we find a fuckin QB .

You got a problem with that .

Edit :

Bob Rang sums it up the same as I se it .


www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfldraftscout-RobRang

4. Cleveland - Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M: In trading down in the 2011 draft to acquire a first-round picks for the 2012 draft, Mike Holmgren and Co. set the stage for the franchise to find a quarterback of the future. The argument that Colt McCoy could be successful with greater help, there is no question that Tannehill possesses better traits. Bypassing arguably the safest player in the draft in running back Trent Richardson, as well as wide receiver Justin Blackmon won't be popular with Browns' fans initially, but until Cleveland finds a quarterback worthy of building around, fans won't be happy anyway.



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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:59 am

SoulDawg74 wrote:We'll never get back until we find a fuckin QB .

You got a problem with that .


Of course not. I agree 100%. You and I just disagree on Tannehill's chances of being that QB.

SoulDawg74 wrote:Bob Rang sums it up the same as I se it .


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfld ... ut-RobRang

4. Cleveland - Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M: In trading down in the 2011 draft to acquire a first-round picks for the 2012 draft, Mike Holmgren and Co. set the stage for the franchise to find a quarterback of the future. The argument that Colt McCoy could be successful with greater help, there is no question that Tannehill possesses better traits. Bypassing arguably the safest player in the draft in running back Trent Richardson, as well as wide receiver Justin Blackmon won't be popular with Browns' fans initially, but until Cleveland finds a quarterback worthy of building around, fans won't be happy anyway.



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True.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:47 pm

Why I'm for taking Blackmon or Richardson. Not my favorite options (neither are worthy of the pick) but you need offense for the future, it takes WR's a few years to develop into their full skillset, and i'd rather not blow the pick if he's not going to be a player that definitively makes the Browns better in the future. Put yourself in a position to improve, not be a laughing stock next year, and be able to fill some holes in the roster.

And if/when Colt sucks it up again, I want the Browns to definitively be ready to go grab the guy in the first round next year that has the chance to be elite, not go into 2013 with Tannehill as a huge question mark.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby mistero » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:53 pm

[list=][/list]And if/when Colt sucks it up again, I want the Browns to definitively be ready to go grab the guy in the first round next year that has the chance to be elite, not go into 2013 with Tannehill as a huge question mark.

Can't argue with that except that I like Tannehill better than Barkley. I fully admit the QB landscape might change drastically before the 2013 draft, but if I have to make a plan now I'm taking Tannehill because the class of 13 blows. I think that has to factor in to your choice this year.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:30 pm

You know, i'm not sure RIGHT NOW who will make a better QB in 2013, Tannehill or Barkley. I'm inclined to say Barkley based on the college performance, but in the NFL, Tannehill does seem to have the better peripherals. (Better speed, seemingly stronger arm, taller, etc) I think Barkley has the higher floor, Tannehill the higher ceiling.

THAT is actually a fairly good argument, since that's essentially what were looking at here; with 2-3 spot starts for Tannehill to end a garbage 2012 season with only minor improvements to the offense, who anyone would rather have at the helm in 2013....Tannehill w/Floyd or Wright and your OT of choice, or Barkley/Flavor of the Year w/Blackmon or Richardson, Floyd/Miller/Wright, and an OT.

Can't presume Barkley will be available where we pick (because we'll likely be fighting with some combination of Jax, NYJ, Baltimore, etc) but I think i'd rather have the latter.....and there's a good chance that the latter will come at the expense of Shurmur, because if they're in the 2-3 win zone again, good chance he's gone, too.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby noles1 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:01 pm

Wilson (Arkansas) is a better pro prospect than Barkley by the end of season next year.

As for this year, I'm not a fan of Tanneyhill. Actually like Weedum better and as the 3rd best in this draft. He's probably not more than Andy Dalton but his arm is legitimate. Think it may be as good as Tanney and he definitely anticipates better and has a better feel for the position.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:41 am

noles1 wrote:Wilson (Arkansas) is a better pro prospect than Barkley by the end of season next year.

As for this year, I'm not a fan of Tanneyhill. Actually like Weedum better and as the 3rd best in this draft. He's probably not more than Andy Dalton but his arm is legitimate. Think it may be as good as Tanney and he definitely anticipates better and has a better feel for the position.


SD:

Weeden is probably a good interview , the maturity at 28 vs these other kids at 22 , makes him come off as a vet .

On Weeden , your drafting a QB on the downside of the rest of his career there is no upside .

If the six years of his prime had been spent in minor league or Canadien football , and he could come in and start day one , I'd take a flyer , but as a soon to be 29 year old rookie , he really has no value before the fourth due to his age , and the possibility he'll be 30 before he transistions to the prro game.

On Tannehill ,

September 2013 after a year in the pros , beats Barkley Wilson straight out of the Collegiate gate .

Wilson or Barkley would cos us trade up picks unless we suck so bad we're in the same position next year as this year .


We have the luxury to sit Tannehill this year , but there would be no such luxury for anybody we spend multiple picks to move up and get next year .

Neither of those guys while good , project to give you that immediate can't miss starter talent such as Luck or RG3 , Barkley would have gone third in this draft.


Ahead of Tannehill or Wilson .

September after a year in the pros , vs a year of jacking off in College , Wilson s skillset eclipses Barkleys while Tannehills experience and talent eclipses both as a 2013 starter.


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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:06 am

I need a cup of coffee, I think I just agreed with SD.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:16 am

SoulDawg74 wrote:September after a year in the pros , vs a year of jacking off in College , Wilson s skillset eclipses Barkleys while Tannehills experience and talent eclipses both as a 2013 starter.


SoulDawg


So would any QB that had some NFL experience.

But by 2014 (and for the rest of their careers), both Barkley and Wilson will probably be better than Tannehill.*

*I reserve the right to completely change my perspective if the Browns should be stupid enough to take Tanny at 4.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:14 am

Hikohadon wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:September after a year in the pros , vs a year of jacking off in College , Wilson s skillset eclipses Barkleys while Tannehills experience and talent eclipses both as a 2013 starter.


SoulDawg


So would any QB that had some NFL experience.
But by 2014 (and for the rest of their careers), both Barkley and Wilson will probably be better than Tannehill.*

*I reserve the right to completely change my perspective if the Browns should be stupid enough to take Tanny at 4.



SD74 :

Thats hardly the truth Hiko , since Tanne right now is viewed as an upgrade over Three year vet Mccoy and lifetime journeyman Wallace , before he ever played a down.

Barkley and Wilson now would also eclipse the status of 80 - 90% of the backups in the league and come in now as projected eventual starters .

Here ,either one could beat all three of these backups now, much less next year.

There is an article somewhere on these forums where the Browns admitted the rebuild doesn't really start until they have the QB , its the only truth they've made in regards to this position since they've been here .

""We believe in Colt "" yeah right woof woof ...


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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby pup » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:39 am

I am as into mindless banter as anyone, but at this point I think the following conclusions can put this to bed:

1. If you believe Tanny is franchise, they should take him at 4
2. If you do not believe Tanny is franchise, they should not even take him at 22.

So the only argument is, is Tanny franchise. Some say yes. Some say no. Nobody is changing the other sides mind. Only one that can change the minds of most is Heckert, by drafting Tanny at 4. Then we will all agree he is franchiseish.

Until he throws his first int at least.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:38 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:September after a year in the pros , vs a year of jacking off in College , Wilson s skillset eclipses Barkleys while Tannehills experience and talent eclipses both as a 2013 starter.


SoulDawg


So would any QB that had some NFL experience.
But by 2014 (and for the rest of their careers), both Barkley and Wilson will probably be better than Tannehill.*

*I reserve the right to completely change my perspective if the Browns should be stupid enough to take Tanny at 4.



SD74 :

Thats hardly the truth Hiko , since Tanne right now is viewed as an upgrade over Three year vet Mccoy and lifetime journeyman Wallace , before he ever played a down.

SoulDawg


Let me amend my statement by saying any "competent" QB with NFL experience.

Too bad Petrino didn't get busted prior to the NFL Draft declaration date - Wilson probably would've declared.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:49 pm

pup wrote:I am as into mindless banter as anyone, but at this point I think the following conclusions can put this to bed:

1. If you believe Tanny is franchise, they should take him at 4
2. If you do not believe Tanny is franchise, they should not even take him at 22.

So the only argument is, is Tanny franchise. Some say yes. Some say no. Nobody is changing the other sides mind. Only one that can change the minds of most is Heckert, by drafting Tanny at 4. Then we will all agree he is franchiseish.

Until he throws his first int at least.


SD:

Anybody who can tell you right now he's a homerun can't miss pick , could have told you ten years ago Brady should have been picked 200 spots ahead of where he was chosen , the gift for foresight required to pull that off is that great .

However if you look at this thing economically from the context from an increasingly maturing roster who is rudderless because you don't have the key component to complete your team , then the risk now becomes worth the reward.

Since Tanne is still learning and growing you have to project where he could be , vs the more complete works of Luck and RG3 , he looks like he was held back in school .

But based on raw attributes in his own right , he is a worthy candidate to take a gamble on , as he does have the size the speed the arm and the athleticism of the new age Franchise QB talents .

However his control now over the subtle nuances of the game make you Gack

So your definitely flipping a coin .

However under the new CBA it affords you a chance of recovery if you take a chance and get Couched , moreover when you add up all things being equal in the situation of the Browns you can afford to miss as remaining pat gives you nothing , and you have another first round pick in this draft so in effect that gives you a two for one shot which makes the gamble worth it .

If you only had one pick , and were under the old CBA , you'd have to go with one of the other so called sure things ie ( Tr Blackmon or Clay )

But because you will no long automatically get thrown into Cap hell and you don't plus factoring in the known quantity that you don't have a chance until you do get a QB.

When correctly tabulated into the overall equation of the teams situation which includes the point that you do have an extra number one , economically you really can't afford to pass up the chance to get better or risk that you passed on a possible franchise pick so high in the draft , where it is so much harder to get to and where you reserve resources to be used there to find a franchise QB first and foremost in that position if you have the slightest idea thats what your drafting or attempting to draft.

All other alternatives when you factor in all other mitigating circumstance cost you more to revisit later if you blow your shot thats right there in your lap.


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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:54 pm

All in favor of shutting the message boards down for two weeks?

Anyone? Anyone?

Or we could continue posting the exact same shit every single day, 12 times a day for the next 16 days.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby pup » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:55 pm

Like I said. You think he is franchise material. So pick him.

I do not. So I wouldn't.

What you say in your next post is not going to change that scenario.

:cheers:
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:00 pm

peeker643 wrote:All in favor of shutting the message boards down for two weeks?

Anyone? Anyone?

Or we could continue posting the exact same shit every single day, 12 times a day for the next 16 days.



SD:

Whaaa and miss all the news from mini camp about how Colt looks so much better .

Shirley you jest .


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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:34 pm

peeker643 wrote:All in favor of shutting the message boards down for two weeks?

Anyone? Anyone?

Or we could continue posting the exact same shit every single day, 12 times a day for the next 16 days.


I think every thread in the Browns forum should be redirected to post in NHB. Then we could all make fun of CDT and his abhorrence to drop D string tuning, lack of pizza knowledge, and atrocious basketball skills.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:46 pm

Just no damn news right now. Nothing new to talk about. I keep trying to write an article, but it's all stuff that we've already rehashed 1000 times. It's gonna end up 2 paragraphs about corned beef and a bunch of pictures of antelopes.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:02 pm

peeker643 wrote:All in favor of shutting the message boards down for two weeks?

Anyone? Anyone?

Or we could continue posting the exact same shit every single day, 12 times a day for the next 16 days.


Dude, this has been the norm since November and its never going to end

Every threads devolves in to the same old fucking QB debate as if someone here has anything to say about it that hasn't been heard 15,000 fucking times before

...and SD need his freaking fingers cut off

Every

Fucking

Day

The same old redundant horseshit
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby pod2dawg » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:05 pm

Hikohadon wrote:Just no damn news right now. Nothing new to talk about. I keep trying to write an article, but it's all stuff that we've already rehashed 1000 times. It's gonna end up 2 paragraphs about corned beef and a bunch of pictures of antelopes.


Hik, how about breaking down some of the lesser known players we are bringing in for a work-out? I have never heard of most of them. It would help reduce the "shock" on draft day. ;)
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby mistero » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:53 am

I agree on the stand down. Either you think Tanney is a franchise QB or you don't. Only matters what Heckert thinks.

If we draft Richardson, he'll help out.
If we draft Blackmon, he'll be great.
If we draft...whoever...it will fill a hole.

What ever will be will be. :partyers:
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby jb » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:02 am

Hikohadon wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:September after a year in the pros , vs a year of jacking off in College , Wilson s skillset eclipses Barkleys while Tannehills experience and talent eclipses both as a 2013 starter.


SoulDawg


So would any QB that had some NFL experience.
But by 2014 (and for the rest of their careers), both Barkley and Wilson will probably be better than Tannehill.*

*I reserve the right to completely change my perspective if the Browns should be stupid enough to take Tanny at 4.



SD74 :

Thats hardly the truth Hiko , since Tanne right now is viewed as an upgrade over Three year vet Mccoy and lifetime journeyman Wallace , before he ever played a down.

SoulDawg


Let me amend my statement by saying any "competent" QB with NFL experience.

Too bad Petrino didn't get busted prior to the NFL Draft declaration date - Wilson probably would've declared.


Supplimental?
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby jb » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:05 am

pod2dawg wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Just no damn news right now. Nothing new to talk about. I keep trying to write an article, but it's all stuff that we've already rehashed 1000 times. It's gonna end up 2 paragraphs about corned beef and a bunch of pictures of antelopes.


Hik, how about breaking down some of the lesser known players we are bringing in for a work-out? I have never heard of most of them. It would help reduce the "shock" on draft day. ;)



I like it.

But I might develop narcalepsy in the day from losing so much sleep being so excited for Peeker's previews.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby jb » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:26 am

peeker643 wrote:All in favor of shutting the message boards down for two weeks?

Anyone? Anyone?

Or we could continue posting the exact same shit every single day, 12 times a day for the next 16 days.



I'll help.

The Browns goal is 3 picks in round one.

They want to trade down and will if at all possible. It may or may not happen.

If they are forced to stay, it is TR or Tannyhill. Gut says TR.

They will trade back up into round 2 to get Weeden. They have man wood for him.

They will get a WR in round one and RT in round two.

You may now shot 'er down.

:group:
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:02 am

jb wrote:
peeker643 wrote:All in favor of shutting the message boards down for two weeks?

Anyone? Anyone?

Or we could continue posting the exact same shit every single day, 12 times a day for the next 16 days.



I'll help.

The Browns goal is 3 picks in round one.

They want to trade down and will if at all possible. It may or may not happen.

If they are forced to stay, it is TR or Tannyhill. Gut says TR.

They will trade back up into round 2 to get Weeden. They have man wood for him.

They will get a WR in round one and RT in round two.

You may now shot 'er down.

:group:


So Richardson, a WR, a RT, and Weeden in the first 2 rounds?

Sounds like a Best Case Scenario to me.

I already anticipate chanting "Weed!" when Weeden throws his first TD, sometime in Week 6.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:05 am

pod2dawg wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Just no damn news right now. Nothing new to talk about. I keep trying to write an article, but it's all stuff that we've already rehashed 1000 times. It's gonna end up 2 paragraphs about corned beef and a bunch of pictures of antelopes.


Hik, how about breaking down some of the lesser known players we are bringing in for a work-out? I have never heard of most of them. It would help reduce the "shock" on draft day. ;)


Jason's MUCH better at that than I am. After the 1st round, my familiarity with the prospects gets hazy, by the 3rd round it gets charcoal.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby pup » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:07 am

Trade down with Bengals and they get TR.

17 - Lamar Miller - RB
21 - Stephen Hill - WR
22 - Jonathon Martin - RT

37 - Janoris Jenkins - CB
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:14 am

pup wrote:Trade down with Bengals and they get TR.

17 - Lamar Miller - RB
21 - Stephen Hill - WR
22 - Jonathon Martin - RT

37 - Janoris Jenkins - CB


Like everything about that except giving Bengals TR.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby pup » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:21 am

Hikohadon wrote:
pup wrote:Trade down with Bengals and they get TR.

17 - Lamar Miller - RB
21 - Stephen Hill - WR
22 - Jonathon Martin - RT

37 - Janoris Jenkins - CB


Like everything about that except giving Bengals TR.


Once we get better, we can worry about keeping others from getting better. You have to get the most bang for your buck as you can, and I think that does it.

Fills all 4 of the spots that we are considering with #4 (well, most of us considering anyway).
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Nicastro13 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:34 am

Schefter was on Sportscenter Yesterday saying that Minny was shopping their pick and that if they keep it Kahlil isnt a lock to be their pick as most people think, which could let him fall to us and be a great trade op. I think this is best case scenario and what I'm hoping for. If not Im in on TR, BPA.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby pup » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:31 am

Nicastro13 wrote:Schefter was on Sportscenter Yesterday saying that Minny was shopping their pick and that if they keep it Kahlil isnt a lock to be their pick as most people think, which could let him fall to us and be a great trade op. I think this is best case scenario and what I'm hoping for. If not Im in on TR, BPA.


If someone won't trade up to 3 for him, why would they trade up to 4?
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:50 pm

pup wrote:
Nicastro13 wrote:Schefter was on Sportscenter Yesterday saying that Minny was shopping their pick and that if they keep it Kahlil isnt a lock to be their pick as most people think, which could let him fall to us and be a great trade op. I think this is best case scenario and what I'm hoping for. If not Im in on TR, BPA.


If someone won't trade up to 3 for him, why would they trade up to 4?


SD:

300 value points more from 8 to 3 instead of 8 to four , which requires a lot more resources .

The Dulphins have to take a big gulp either way ., but if you centered your offseason stategy around getting this guy for the future , which led to a low ball attempt at Flynn , nevermind your ill fated play at landing manning , and you miss both as the Browns simply take your guy then you have worse problems.

Pressure and panic or ice water to call the Browns bluff .

Mind you we're talking jeff ireland , the dope who asked a kid was his mother a whore.

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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby jb » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:45 pm

pup wrote:
Nicastro13 wrote:Schefter was on Sportscenter Yesterday saying that Minny was shopping their pick and that if they keep it Kahlil isnt a lock to be their pick as most people think, which could let him fall to us and be a great trade op. I think this is best case scenario and what I'm hoping for. If not Im in on TR, BPA.


If someone won't trade up to 3 for him, why would they trade up to 4?



Teams struggling to trade down in our range. Too much depth, too little differentiation this year. You won't get value in a trade down situation.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Nicastro13 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:48 pm

Not sure Pup, but value, Egos and friendships always play into these things, maybe someone would be more willing to deal with us rather than Minny? Just saying it opens up more trade doors with a legit LT sitting there than CB/WR/RB that high in the draft.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby Triple-S » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:04 pm



You wanna know what Tannehill is? The f-ing Mystery Box. "oh, he could be Phillip Rivers if we're lucky! sweet! we just have to wait a year or two, and hope that every slides into place here".

Take. the. damn. boat. I want the player that the Browns can plug in and point out,and go "This guy right here? He's the franchise guy, he's the last guy I'd ever lose in a trade".

I don't want risks here. We're not in that position. We're not the Steelers, Patriots Giants, Packers,etc. Where we can go "What the hell?, Why not!". This isn't a joke. You're broke. You've got no cash. You had better take the 500 bucks right now, over the possible 1000 you'll get in 2 years.

As many starters as we can net in this draft as possible within the first 3 rounds. Past that? You can risk it all you want.
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Re: You're the GM. Who you picking at #4??

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:20 pm

Triple-S wrote:I don't want risks here. We're not in that position. We're not the Steelers, Patriots Giants, Packers,etc. Where we can go "What the hell?, Why not!". This isn't a joke. You're broke. You've got no cash. You had better take the 500 bucks right now, over the possible 1000 you'll get in 2 years.

As many starters as we can net in this draft as possible within the first 3 rounds. Past that? You can risk it all you want.


Play it safe? We're not in a position to take risks? Nonsense.

We're working on a bakers dozen years of suck here. And we have to play it safe? Fuck that noise. Now is the perfect time to take a risk, when you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

What, if we take a risk on Tannehill and it doesn't work out we're gonna suck some more?

It ain't the team that's ahead that throws the Hail Mary.
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