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Kalili Would be a Mistake

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Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:48 am

Heard he's visiting and I get that doesn't mean shit in terms of taking him. But unless the Browns are interested in him as Joe Thomas's ultimate replacement then you don't want him.

Watching tons of film stuff on that kid and he's a JT clone. Meaning he's big, strong, smart, uses leverage and all of that, but he IS NOT A ROAD GRADER. If ya want a technique guy at RT then okay. With the thought in mind he could replace JT down the road I guess.

I can see it though I don't agree with it when you can get a nasty RT who is more run blocking ready later.

But watch Kalil. I hate the word 'finesse' because I don't think Thomas is a finesse player, but they are similar types of players. Not a whole lot of mean and nasty, more technicians.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:00 pm

In the traditional sense, no, Kalil isn't a good RT. But I think the whole concept that "the RT must be a road-grader run-blocker" is going somewhat the way of the concepts "you have to run the ball and stop the run to win".

This is now a passing/rush-the-passer league, and in such a league, I don't know if having 2 Joe Thomases keeping the pocket clean is such a bad thing.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:15 pm

Hikohadon wrote:In the traditional sense, no, Kalil isn't a good RT. But I think the whole concept that "the RT must be a road-grader run-blocker" is going somewhat the way of the concepts "you have to run the ball and stop the run to win".

This is now a passing/rush-the-passer league, and in such a league, I don't know if having 2 Joe Thomases keeping the pocket clean is such a bad thing.



Look, Kalil at #4 is a mistake. That's what I'm saying. I'm tired of hearing about the pass-first tilt of the league. That's been going that way for 20 years. I get that. But it's not the freaking Arena League. People will still run the ball and do it 20-25 times per game at the very least.

If they take that guy at that spot and turn him into something he's not that's a mistake. And people that would be okay with it are missing the fact that there are far better options than Kalil if you want to move a LT to RT whether you're throwing the ball or not.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:46 pm

One of you guys have to change your avatar, I thought Peeker was talking to himself (Not out of the realm of possibilities I suppose)
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:50 pm

Look, I don't think Kalil will fall to #4, and if he does, then the Browns should exploit that for a juicy trade-down. But I don't think it is a mistake to take the most talented OL in the draft at that point (should they do it, which as I stated above, I doubt), and I also think it is traditionalist horseflop that says he can't play RT in the NFL.

I also think that the Browns would run just as much with Kalil at RT as they did last year, and probably with more success since the LOS wouldn't be stacked since Kalil would be immensely helping out the passing game.

He's not my #1 prospect in either need or effect, but I'd rather have him than, say, Tannehill. If it helps, my official position is Try To Trade Down if Kalil is available.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:50 pm

Ziner wrote:One of you guys have to change your avatar, I thought Peeker was talking to himself (Not out of the realm of possibilities I suppose)


In a way, he is.

(Not on this subject, though, apparently)
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby yogi » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:19 pm

I hadnt heard too much about TB interest in Kalil, only TR and Claibourne. But if he were to be taken at 5, the Rams would be foolish not to give up a 2nd and get him at 4.

Us picking at 6 with another 2nd rounder in the fold is alright by me. Another legit talent ot trade fodder to move up from 22 to snare Tanny or whoever is the guy Heck has rated high in that area.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:59 pm

Hikohadon wrote:Look, I don't think Kalil will fall to #4, and if he does, then the Browns should exploit that for a juicy trade-down. But I don't think it is a mistake to take the most talented OL in the draft at that point (should they do it, which as I stated above, I doubt), and I also think it is traditionalist horseflop that says he can't play RT in the NFL.

I also think that the Browns would run just as much with Kalil at RT as they did last year, and probably with more success since the LOS wouldn't be stacked since Kalil would be immensely helping out the passing game.

He's not my #1 prospect in either need or effect, but I'd rather have him than, say, Tannehill. If it helps, my official position is Try To Trade Down if Kalil is available.


I didn't say he can't play RT. I said it would be a mistake to draft him there and have him play RT.

You don't pay Cadillac price for a Cadillac to have it haul hay on the farm. Not what it's built to do.

It CAN do it, but there's other shit better equipped to do it that doesn't cost you that much or turn a Cadillac into a neutered down pickup.

Turn it around and move Thomas over to RT. He's not that guy. He could play it, be better than many, but that's not what he does best. Same with Kalil.

It would be a mistake.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:10 pm

There are less effective mistakes they could make. If he's the clear BPA, then the mistake is letting him slide without compensation.

Still on the trade down boat if he's there.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:26 pm

Hikohadon wrote:There are less effective mistakes they could make. If he's the clear BPA, then the mistake is letting him slide without compensation.

Still on the trade down boat if he's there.


This is true.

Instead of turning a Cadillac into a hay hauler they could pay Cadillac prices for that hay hauler and call it a QB.

Fuck... you KNOW they're gonna fuck this up 6 ways to Sunday.

Sorry....panicked for a second... I'm alright now.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:27 pm

Hikohadon wrote:There are less effective mistakes they could make. If he's the clear BPA, then the mistake is letting him slide without compensation.

Still on the trade down boat if he's there.



By the way, this impossible. Because one of either Kalil, Claiborne or Richardson are going to be there and Kalil is in 3rd place on that list IMO.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:36 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:There are less effective mistakes they could make. If he's the clear BPA, then the mistake is letting him slide without compensation.

Still on the trade down boat if he's there.



By the way, this impossible. Because one of either Kalil, Claiborne or Richardson are going to be there and Kalil is in 3rd place on that list IMO.


IMO too, but MO and YO aren't necessarily THO.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:41 pm

yogi wrote:I hadnt heard too much about TB interest in Kalil, only TR and Claibourne. But if he were to be taken at 5, the Rams would be foolish not to give up a 2nd and get him at 4.

Us picking at 6 with another 2nd rounder in the fold is alright by me. Another legit talent ot trade fodder to move up from 22 to snare Tanny or whoever is the guy Heck has rated high in that area.


See, if the Browns can trade back to 6 and pick up 33 or 39, then even if Richardson is gone to TB at 5 they can still take one of Claiborne/Blackmon or even take a shot at Tannehill and still get RB/WR/RT with the remaining 1st and 2nd round picks.

To me, this would severely lessen the perceived wastefulness of using a Top 10 pick on a 2nd round guy, since you could use that extra 2nd to pick a guy that has a good shot of probably producing like a 1st rounder.

(To be clear, still not on board with Tannehill at 6, but it would suck a lot less.)
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:50 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:There are less effective mistakes they could make. If he's the clear BPA, then the mistake is letting him slide without compensation.

Still on the trade down boat if he's there.



By the way, this impossible. Because one of either Kalil, Claiborne or Richardson are going to be there and Kalil is in 3rd place on that list IMO.


IMO too, but MO and YO aren't necessarily THO.



SD:

man you guys are spitting on a gift horse if he's there at 4 .

The eagles lost there LT for the year with a torn achilles and they have a trained WCO QB extra in Kafaka .

You take their 15 their 46 in the second add kafka to the Wallace Mccoy Troika and include both our fourths for their 51st in that deal and move down.

There are at least five guys who would make a better RT value , which you can easily find at 15 or 22 plus you have a signal caller .

Whats the problem.


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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby yogi » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:50 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
yogi wrote:I hadnt heard too much about TB interest in Kalil, only TR and Claibourne. But if he were to be taken at 5, the Rams would be foolish not to give up a 2nd and get him at 4.

Us picking at 6 with another 2nd rounder in the fold is alright by me. Another legit talent ot trade fodder to move up from 22 to snare Tanny or whoever is the guy Heck has rated high in that area.


See, if the Browns can trade back to 6 and pick up 33 or 39, then even if Richardson is gone to TB at 5 they can still take one of Claiborne/Blackmon or even take a shot at Tannehill and still get RB/WR/RT with the remaining 1st and 2nd round picks.
To me, this would severely lessen the perceived wastefulness of using a Top 10 pick on a 2nd round guy, since you could use that extra 2nd to pick a guy that has a good shot of probably producing like a 1st rounder.

(To be clear, still not on board with Tannehill at 6, but it would suck a lot less.)


This is best case scenario for me, address WR, RT & RB with legit talent and take a shot at QB.

Use remaining draft and FA to shore up other weaknesses in lineup to get by. Go to war with a lot of young guys in key areas and develope QB with a high ceiling.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:58 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:There are less effective mistakes they could make. If he's the clear BPA, then the mistake is letting him slide without compensation.

Still on the trade down boat if he's there.



By the way, this impossible. Because one of either Kalil, Claiborne or Richardson are going to be there and Kalil is in 3rd place on that list IMO.


IMO too, but MO and YO aren't necessarily THO.



SD:

man you guys are spitting on a gift horse if he's there at 4 .

The eagles lost there LT for the year with a torn achilles and they have a trained WCO QB extra in Kafaka .

You take their 15 their 46 in the second add kafka to the Wallace Mccoy Troika and include both our fourths for their 51st in that deal and move down.

There are at least five guys who would make a better RT value , which you can easily find at 15 or 22 plus you have a signal caller .

Whats the problem.


SoulDawg


If I'm giving Philly their franchise LT and dropping 11 spots, they'd better be offering a helluva lot more than 46, 51, and Kafka.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:39 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:There are less effective mistakes they could make. If he's the clear BPA, then the mistake is letting him slide without compensation.

Still on the trade down boat if he's there.



By the way, this impossible. Because one of either Kalil, Claiborne or Richardson are going to be there and Kalil is in 3rd place on that list IMO.


IMO too, but MO and YO aren't necessarily THO.



SD:

man you guys are spitting on a gift horse if he's there at 4 .

The eagles lost there LT for the year with a torn achilles and they have a trained WCO QB extra in Kafaka .

You take their 15 their 46 in the second add kafka to the Wallace Mccoy Troika and include both our fourths for their 51st in that deal and move down.

There are at least five guys who would make a better RT value , which you can easily find at 15 or 22 plus you have a signal caller .

Whats the problem.


SoulDawg


Fine with getting a King's ransom for him. Just don't want to hear "With the fourth pick in the 2012 NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select Matt Kalil".

Hold him hostage for picks all day. Just don't actually take him.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:16 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:There are less effective mistakes they could make. If he's the clear BPA, then the mistake is letting him slide without compensation.

Still on the trade down boat if he's there.



By the way, this impossible. Because one of either Kalil, Claiborne or Richardson are going to be there and Kalil is in 3rd place on that list IMO.


IMO too, but MO and YO aren't necessarily THO.



SD:

man you guys are spitting on a gift horse if he's there at 4 .

The eagles lost there LT for the year with a torn achilles and they have a trained WCO QB extra in Kafaka .

You take their 15 their 46 in the second add kafka to the Wallace Mccoy Troika and include both our fourths for their 51st in that deal and move down.

There are at least five guys who would make a better RT value , which you can easily find at 15 or 22 plus you have a signal caller .

Whats the problem.


SoulDawg


If I'm giving Philly their franchise LT and dropping 11 spots, they'd better be offering a helluva lot more than 46, 51, and Kafka.


SD:

man wake up and smell the coffee.

the second best QB on that roster and it isn't Vince young .

Netting a vet two years properly trained in this system whose played behind superstars but has no chance of sniffin the roster save injury is damn near Matt Shuab part duex ..

kids at the brink of getting it on , and we should be trading for him regardless of how this draft turns out because Tanne won't be ready if picked , and Colt can't do anything but hobble this offense.

Kafka is no throw in , he's worth the trade by himself with our situation , the picks are the bonus.

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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:51 pm

This whole conversation is Kafkaesque :lmfao:
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:18 pm

mattvan1 wrote:This whole conversation is Kafkaesque :lmfao:


It's like watching a tennis match.

And i'm with Hiko. Use him as a trade chip to get more picks..... if he's there.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:19 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:SD:

man wake up and smell the coffee.

the second best QB on that roster and it isn't Vince young .

Netting a vet two years properly trained in this system whose played behind superstars but has no chance of sniffin the roster save injury is damn near Matt Shuab part duex ..

kids at the brink of getting it on , and we should be trading for him regardless of how this draft turns out because Tanne won't be ready if picked , and Colt can't do anything but hobble this offense.

Kafka is no throw in , he's worth the trade by himself with our situation , the picks are the bonus.

SoulDawg


I'm proposing the Browns need to get more and you're upset by that?

Whether or not YOU (the GM) feels that, you don't let Philly think you do.

You don't let Philly do to you what the Jets did to Mangini.

Kafka is a - what - 5th rounder? Who has played a couple games decently.

Kalil will be a Top 5 pick that is also a Franchise LT, which are very valuable.

It doesn't matter what Kafka's value might be to YOU, it's what his value is to Philly. It doesn't matter what Kalil's value is to YOU, it's what his value is to Philly.

2 mid-round 2nds and a disposable backup QB (to them)... Philly would think they took you behind the shed.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:47 pm

Washington just paid three 1st rounders to move up four spots. To move up 11 spots, the cost would be too prohibitive for Philly. You're easily talking 1st/2nd rounders this year and next.


At least we discovered the new QB Flavor of the Month in Kafka. :bunny:
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby pup » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:28 pm

Fucking Kafka? Officially submitting petition for NFL to have draft this weekend. Even I can not longer handle this mindless back and forth and few are mindlessly back and forth as often as I.

Promise he is better than the last backup Philly had people were dying for?

I would take Vince Young and all 7 of his egos before I traded 4 to get Kafka and some stuff.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:19 am

Ok, fine, I'll say it.

When is it bad to have a plethora of quality lineman? Do you know the difference between 3.1 and 4.6 YPC? Lineman. Or the difference between 52% and 65% completion percentage in a dink n' dunk O? Lineman.

I'll take a technician before a parking cone any day. More specifically, I'll take someone who is good over someone that has been released by another team, regardless of perceived position.

If it's true you can find quality RBs and WRs in later rounds, then whom, outside of a QB, do you choose early?
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:28 am

Erie Warrior wrote:Ok, fine, I'll say it.

When is it bad to have a plethora of quality lineman? Do you know the difference between 3.1 and 4.6 YPC? Lineman. Or the difference between 52% and 65% completion percentage in a dink n' dunk O? Lineman.

I'll take a technician before a parking cone any day. More specifically, I'll take someone who is good over someone that has been released by another team, regardless of perceived position.

If it's true you can find quality RBs and WRs in later rounds, then whom, outside of a QB, do you choose early?


Heeeeeerrrreeeee we go.

Listen, people of fucking Polarity, OH, population: This place

I'm not saying not to draft linemen. Go get a few. Go get one in RD 1.
I'm saying Kalil at #4 is as stupid as Tannehill at #4. You can get a BETTER RT CANDIDATE than Kalil and you can get that guy between 10-20 in the first round. And that guy will be a very good RT in the run game and in the pass game.

Goddammit this fucking place drives me nuts some times.

Oh, Happy Opening Day, Erie. Hope you get to see or hear a few innings after class.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:36 am

peeker643 wrote: You can get a BETTER RT CANDIDATE than Kalil and you can get that guy between 10-20 in the first round. And that guy will be a very good RT in the run game and in the pass game.

Goddammit this fucking place drives me nuts some times.

Oh, Happy Opening Day, Erie. Hope you get to see or hear a few innings after class.


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Who's better than the best OL in the draft? Why not have 2 OTs that can seal the backside on a zone-read run? Cutback city. Can you imagine what LaMichael James could do with that setup. Backside LBs wouldn't see anything but the name on the back of his jersey.
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Re: Kalili Would be a Mistake

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:52 am

Erie Warrior wrote:
peeker643 wrote: You can get a BETTER RT CANDIDATE than Kalil and you can get that guy between 10-20 in the first round. And that guy will be a very good RT in the run game and in the pass game.

Goddammit this fucking place drives me nuts some times.

Oh, Happy Opening Day, Erie. Hope you get to see or hear a few innings after class.


Spring Break, baby! Putting the garden in then it's baseball and beer.

Who's better than the best OL in the draft? Why not have 2 OTs that can seal the backside on a zone-read run? Cutback city. Can you imagine what LaMichael James could do with that setup. Backside LBs wouldn't see anything but the name on the back of his jersey.


Nice. Enjoy the day.

And the tackle thing to me is like the LB position. Yeah... a guy might be fine there because he's aLB. But another guy might be better there because he's specifically built for that spot.

I'm telling you guys, Kalil will do a great job riding guys out around his QB and keeping his QB upright and protected from threats on the blind side. His value is lessened if you move him to the right side.

And there's no way I take him at #4 and then lessen his impact and value. You could move back and get Reiff and/or DeCastro and be thrilled with those guys while piling up picks. And those guys are good enough to put at LT if something happened to Thomas.

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