2012 NFL Free Agency

[peeker643]

Take that $6-$7 mil you save from cutting Steinbach and use that to overpay a RT.

Begging for this.

Brown or Winston, pay up and get it done.

And now you have another little hole at either RG or LG.

If Steinbach is healthy you have your LG and then let Pinkston and Lauvao battle it out for RG with other as depth. Not a fan of that though I agree I could live with a big time RT and Pinkston staying at LG.

Rather have issues at Guard than at Tackle...no telling what condition Steinbach is even in

Agreed. But they'll know his condition if they don't already. Someone's about to drop gargantuan cake on a QB with an 'iffy' condition.

[Hikohadon]

Thats been the popular assumption but can Brown even do that? I thought he was pretty much done

I'd rather sign someone like Leonhard on the cheap than put brown out there.

Well, he'd have enough coverage skills to do it. He tackles fairly well. He's considered a leader in the locker room (lots of players single him out as a leader). He's one of those guys that they might keep on for the intangibles (if he's functional at the position).

[Hikohadon]

Hard to even say they overpaid really unless you know the bonus amount. So probably dumb to complain about cash until the bonus amount is known.

I think I heard it was $8 mil guaranteed.

[Hikohadon]

What do you give up to trade for Ben Tate?

[peeker643]

What do you give up to trade for Ben Tate?

Both 4ths?

Maybe a 3rd and 4th?

Can't imagine you give up 37 for the guy when you have Lamar Miller and David Wilson who would probably be there in that range.

They traded a 3rd the year they moved up to draft Hardesty and Tate was the guy they wanted then.

Maybe between them you get a full season?

[JCoz]

What do you give up to trade for Ben Tate?

Both 4ths?

Maybe a 3rd and 4th?

Can't imagine you give up 37 for the guy when you have Lamar Miller and David Wilson who would probably be there in that range.

They traded a 3rd the year they moved up to draft Hardesty and Tate was the guy they wanted then.

Maybe between them you get a full season?

Agree with that logic in offers...

I'd go so far as a 3rd in this and next years draft, and be pretty happy about it, to be honest.

[JCoz]

Thats been the popular assumption but can Brown even do that? I thought he was pretty much done

I'd rather sign someone like Leonhard on the cheap than put brown out there.

Can Leonhard walk yet?

Guess thats a good question....

[Hikohadon]

What do you give up to trade for Ben Tate?

Both 4ths?

Maybe a 3rd and 4th?

Can't imagine you give up 37 for the guy when you have Lamar Miller and David Wilson who would probably be there in that range.

They traded a 3rd the year they moved up to draft Hardesty and Tate was the guy they wanted then.

Maybe between them you get a full season?

Agree with that logic in offers...

I'd go so far as a 3rd in this and next years draft, and be pretty happy about it, to be honest.

If the 2nd were a little lower, I'd even go that far. Big fan of Tate's. If Arian Foster missed the entire season, Tate would've been a Top 10 back. I think Houston would be stupid to trade him, but if they're so inclined, I'd be a taker.

[Hikohadon]

And now 5 years, $32.5 mil for Laurent Robinson. Laurent. Fucking. Robinson.

I almost don't blame the Browns for basically sitting Free Agency out if these are the kind of contracts you have to ante up.

You know half these guys are gonna get cut in 2 years when their production doesn't remotely add up to $8 mil per year, right?

[e0y2e3]

Hillis, Cleveland's Hero, is now a Chief.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

[Hikohadon]

Hillis, Cleveland's Hero, is now a Chief.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Let's all take a moment to mourn the loss of our mediocre RB.

Sniff... sniff...

OK, I've somehow moved on. Leaves a hole, yes, but it's not like the dude isn't fairly easily replaced.

Up the offer for Tate.

[e0y2e3]

Tate is going nowhere for less than a 2nd.

And 1 year, $3MM, for the person you voted onto the Madden Cover, just effing hilarious to me.

[CleSportsTruth]

And now 5 years, $32.5 mil for Laurent Robinson. Laurent. Fucking. Robinson.

I almost don't blame the Browns for basically sitting Free Agency out if these are the kind of contracts you have to ante up.

You know half these guys are gonna get cut in 2 years when their production doesn't remotely add up to $8 mil per year, right?

But that's the nature of FA, folks! EVERYONE (well most professional orgs, that is ) overpays. Sure, some blow up in your face, but if you wanna improve... And if you ever want to attract guys (quality FA's), you may need to overpay at first, if only to show you're serious.

[Hikohadon]

Tate is going nowhere for less than a 2nd.

And 1 year, $3MM, for the person you voted onto the Madden Cover, just effing hilarious to me.

I didn't vote for shit. 1 year, $3 mil just shows me that he's a pouty dick. Good contract for the Chiefs. But I bet the Browns offered more, and he didn't do it b/c he's all upset and kookoo for Cocoa Puffs.

That's fine, offer the 2nd for Tate. You've fucked up everything else, might as well get something done.

[Hikohadon]

But that's the nature of FA, folks! EVERYONE (well most professional orgs, that is ) overpays. Sure, some blow up in your face, but if you wanna improve... And if you ever want to attract guys (quality FA's), you may need to overpay at first, if only to show you're serious.

Hey, I agree... but not for Laurent Robinson or Pierre Garcon.

[CleSportsTruth]

Tate is going nowhere for less than a 2nd.

And 1 year, $3MM, for the person you voted onto the Madden Cover, just effing hilarious to me.

But, but, DRAFT PICKS!!!

[CleSportsTruth]

But that's the nature of FA, folks! EVERYONE (well most professional orgs, that is ) overpays. Sure, some blow up in your face, but if you wanna improve... And if you ever want to attract guys (quality FA's), you may need to overpay at first, if only to show you're serious.

Hey, I agree... but not for Laurent Robinson or Pierre Garcon.

I would have for Robinson, and had we gotten a certain QB from Baylor, ditto for Garcon, if needed.

[Hikohadon]

But that's the nature of FA, folks! EVERYONE (well most professional orgs, that is ) overpays. Sure, some blow up in your face, but if you wanna improve... And if you ever want to attract guys (quality FA's), you may need to overpay at first, if only to show you're serious.

Hey, I agree... but not for Laurent Robinson or Pierre Garcon.

I would have for Robinson, and had we gotten a certain QB from Baylor, ditto for Garcon, if needed.

Yeah, we'll see how that works out for Washington. It's been so successful for them in the past.

"But this time's different!"

Righty-o.

[CleSportsTruth]

But that's the nature of FA, folks! EVERYONE (well most professional orgs, that is ) overpays. Sure, some blow up in your face, but if you wanna improve... And if you ever want to attract guys (quality FA's), you may need to overpay at first, if only to show you're serious.

Hey, I agree... but not for Laurent Robinson or Pierre Garcon.

I would have for Robinson, and had we gotten a certain QB from Baylor, ditto for Garcon, if needed.

Yeah, we'll see how that works out for Washington. It's been so successful for them in the past.

"But this time's different!"

Righty-o.

Great QB elevates mediocre WR's every time. See Brady, Tom as an example. In this case, I get what the 'Skins are doing.

BTW: When and where is the Mini getting torched?

[Hikohadon]

Great QB elevates mediocre WR's every time. See Brady, Tom as an example. In this case, I get what the 'Skins are doing.

BTW: When and where is the Mini getting torched?

True. So that means you wait, get a decent WR a few days later for a reasonable amount, and spend the big bucks on Defense.

Tom Brady does very well with mediocre QB's. But the Patriots never gave them $9 mil a year.

[CleSportsTruth]

Great QB elevates mediocre WR's every time. See Brady, Tom as an example. In this case, I get what the 'Skins are doing.

BTW: When and where is the Mini getting torched?

True. So that means you wait, get a decent WR a few days later for a reasonable amount, and spend the big bucks on Defense.

Tom Brady does very well with mediocre QB's. But the Patriots never gave them $9 mil a year.

Won't be any (literally) available soon.

[Lubber]

I'm not upset we didn't sign Garcon. Even if we wanted to, we had no chance with Colt McCoy as our QB. No reciever in their right mind would come here unless we beat the best other offer out there by 10-20%.

All I am saying is that right now, Pierre Garcon is a better wide reciever than anyone we have on our roster. And it's not even close. Little has raw skills, but there's a reason he slipped to almost the third round and we saw it last year. He has upside, which none of our other recievers have. So did Quincy Morgan, and there's as good a chance that's what he becomes as there is of him busting out.

Respectfully disagree. It is close, to the point where if the 2 of them were Free Agents and cost the same, I'd take Little every time. Garcon comes here, Little still gets the other team's #1 Corner.

You think Garcon can't still bust out? I think the odds are quite good.

Little slipped to the 2nd round. Garcon slipped to undrafted.

But this is splitting hairs. We both agree that the Browns should not have picked him up at that asking price. Whether he is better than Little or not is irrelevant.

I take Garçon over Little any day of the week. The reason he slipped to undrafted is because he went to MUC. He almost had 1000 yards with Painter and Orlosky tossing the pigskin.

One day, Little might get there. But right now Gracon has him. Would I pay the money he got if I were the Browns? Probably not unless at was the only missing piece of the puzzle.

This is disingenuous on many, many levels.

Greg Little, 2011: 61 (targets) 121 (catches) 709 (yds) 11.6 (per) 2(tds)

Pierre Garcon: Pierre Garcon: 70 (targets) 134 (catches) 947 (yds) 13.5 (per) 6 (tds)

So, lets analyze these numbers. Garcon caught a whopping 13 catches more for the season, on 9 more attempts. (So his percentage is 52%, compared to GL's 50%) Little was a RAW rookie who barely saw any action in his first few games, in large part because he HADNT PLAYED im over a year. (7 catches through 3 weeks) GL didn't have anyone on the opposite side of the field taking attention away from him. (Versus Garcon who had Reggie Wayne out yonder)

The most important stat to me, however, is the following: 41 to 28 targets within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. The Browns run a bullshit archaic form of the West coast offense, and regardless of the merits of Painter/Orlovsky vs. Colteca Mcwallace, the Colts offense is designed to air the ball out.

Adjusting for offenses and the time spent integrating Little into the offense.... in 2012, i'd say the difference between Garcon and Little is completely negligible. YMMV, but it appears nearly every analyst/writer agrees with me that he was MASSIVELY overpaid by the Skins. Shit, I feel like Morgan is already a better receiver.

Regardless of whether you think Garcon is better, the point remains that he sure as F*** isn't 8M$ better. He's a decent #2 option on a team with an established #1 WR, and......we already have that.

I am not sure if I can believe your logic when you think these guys can have more catches than targets.

Wayne is past his prime as a true 1, and Garçon often drew the top corner on the opposing team.

[peeker643]

And now 5 years, $32.5 mil for Laurent Robinson. Laurent. Fucking. Robinson.

I almost don't blame the Browns for basically sitting Free Agency out if these are the kind of contracts you have to ante up.

You know half these guys are gonna get cut in 2 years when their production doesn't remotely add up to $8 mil per year, right?

But that's the nature of FA, folks! EVERYONE (well most professional orgs, that is ) overpays. Sure, some blow up in your face, but if you wanna improve... And if you ever want to attract guys (quality FA's), you may need to overpay at first, if only to show you're serious.

It's true. Look at the Pats, Giants, Steelers, Ravens, Packers and Saints going apeshit crazy and overpaying these guys.

[Hikohadon]

Wayne is past his prime as a true 1, and Garçon often drew the top corner on the opposing team.

Please present your facts on this.

[pup]

And now 5 years, $32.5 mil for Laurent Robinson. Laurent. Fucking. Robinson.

I almost don't blame the Browns for basically sitting Free Agency out if these are the kind of contracts you have to ante up.

You know half these guys are gonna get cut in 2 years when their production doesn't remotely add up to $8 mil per year, right?

But that's the nature of FA, folks! EVERYONE (well most professional orgs, that is ) overpays. Sure, some blow up in your face, but if you wanna improve... And if you ever want to attract guys (quality FA's), you may need to overpay at first, if only to show you're serious.

It's true. Look at the Pats, Giants, Steelers, Ravens, Packers and Saints going apeshit crazy and overpaying these guys.

Fer fucksake.

When we win 8 games, we can consider sitting out the early part of free agency and waiting for the good deals. Til then, get someone...anyone...that is better than the majority of the 45 shitstains that are active on Sunday in that orange domecover.

[jb]

Hillis, Cleveland's Hero, is now a Chief.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

This is exhibit 67,439 why you are the biggest prick in Gore-land for no particularly good motivational reason.

Browns Fan in his miserable existence gets like one bright spot since 2007 and you shit all over him just to be a prick. Diss the FO, diss Joe Don Looney, diss anything; but to come up on fan like that because Hillis showed some hard nosed ball and production including one of 3 bright spots in 3 pathetic seasons when he housed your beloved Patsies ? You are really one miserable cuss. Go hand job Rondo while he eats sushi in sunglasses on his way out of town while you make out with Dusty Pedroia.

[e0y2e3]

Hillis being embraced by middle white America still pisses me off.

Guy was okay at football and became a gawd because he was white and a hick.

It was a load and shit.

I have my reasons for laughing at his decline and they are founded in his bullshit rise to superstar.

[pup]

Hillis being embraced by middle white America still pisses me off.

Guy was okay at football and became a gawd because he was white and a hick.

It was a load and shit.

I have my reasons for laughing at his decline and they are founded in his bullshit rise to superstar.

So you are all about the player, up until the player is a white guy that gets more out of his abilities than he should?

No wonder you like the NBA.

[e0y2e3]

I'm all about players not getting blown and turned into national stars because it is perceived they are limited by their skin color and/or people get all excited because, hey, HE'S WHITE!!!!

It was every bit as disgusting as the RG3, hey, HE'S MIKE VICK!!!!!

[pup]

I'm all about players not getting blown and turned into national stars because it is perceived they are limited by their skin color and/or people get all excited because, hey, HE'S WHITE!!!!

It was every bit as disgusting as the RG3, hey, HE'S MIKE VICK!!!!!

Until you figure out dude came from nowhere to amass 1500 total yards and 11 touchdowns.

Wouldn't matter if he was green, Browns fans are going to love that dude. Especially when you do it in the style and manner he did. Running dudes over. Long runs where he hurdled dudes. He was a highlight machine.

[wmurphyhh]

Anyone heard anything on Demeterius Bell? Use the savings from Steinbach and FA inactivity and get a quality tackle. Stop talking about Winston. He wants to win. He's not coming here. Let's face it...Buffalo is one of the few towns that can make Cleveland look good.
Overpay a bit. Get it done. Then we can focus on trading down to get Richardson.

[peeker643]

Hillis, Cleveland's Hero, is now a Chief.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

This is exhibit 67,439 why you are the biggest prick in Gore-land for no particularly good motivational reason.

Browns Fan in his miserable existence gets like one bright spot since 2007 and you shit all over him just to be a prick. Diss the FO, diss Joe Don Looney, diss anything; but to come up on fan like that because Hillis showed some hard nosed ball and production including one of 3 bright spots in 3 pathetic seasons when he housed your beloved Patsies ? You are really one miserable cuss. Go hand job Rondo while he eats sushi in sunglasses on his way out of town while you make out with Dusty Pedroia.

Nothing worse than a hipster with a cause.

Wait... a passive/aggressive hipster with a cause IS worse.

And no one knows passive/aggressive like I know passive/aggressive.

[e0y2e3]

White America (and mainly the Mid-West) made Peyton Hillis (a guy who always played well when given shots, from college up) the face of the NFL for a pretty good NFL season.

It was a load of shit.

Right up there with "I don't want to draft a black QB because they can't play under center and run too much"

I'm not accusing you of this doing, but if you don't think race played a key role in Hillis going from pseudo known to Madden Cover Boy/Letterman/etc you lying to yourself.

He immediately became overrated. And I'm sure it played a role in his mental breakdown. Everyone living vicariously through him can pat themselves on the back.

[peeker643]

White America (and mainly the Mid-West) made Peyton Hillis (a guy who always played well when given shots, from college up) the face of the NFL for a pretty good NFL season.

It was a load of shit.

Right up there with "I don't want to draft a black QB because they can't play under center and run too much"

I'm not accusing you of this doing, but if you don't think race played a key role in Hillis going from pseudo known to Madden Cover Boy/Letterman/etc you lying to yourself.

He immediately became overrated. And I'm sure it played a role in his mental breakdown. Everyone living vicariously through him can pat themselves on the back.

People here hated Mack & Byner because they were black. I remember it well. hey showered them with fake adoration and obviously fake love to a ridiculous extent.

I never voted for the Maddedn thing. Loved Hillis's style. Wondering which of your boxes I go in.

[Gradysmanldy]

I'm not upset we didn't sign Garcon. Even if we wanted to, we had no chance with Colt McCoy as our QB. No reciever in their right mind would come here unless we beat the best other offer out there by 10-20%.

All I am saying is that right now, Pierre Garcon is a better wide reciever than anyone we have on our roster. And it's not even close. Little has raw skills, but there's a reason he slipped to almost the third round and we saw it last year. He has upside, which none of our other recievers have. So did Quincy Morgan, and there's as good a chance that's what he becomes as there is of him busting out.

Respectfully disagree. It is close, to the point where if the 2 of them were Free Agents and cost the same, I'd take Little every time. Garcon comes here, Little still gets the other team's #1 Corner.

You think Garcon can't still bust out? I think the odds are quite good.

Little slipped to the 2nd round. Garcon slipped to undrafted.

But this is splitting hairs. We both agree that the Browns should not have picked him up at that asking price. Whether he is better than Little or not is irrelevant.

I take Garçon over Little any day of the week. The reason he slipped to undrafted is because he went to MUC. He almost had 1000 yards with Painter and Orlosky tossing the pigskin.

One day, Little might get there. But right now Gracon has him. Would I pay the money he got if I were the Browns? Probably not unless at was the only missing piece of the puzzle.

This is disingenuous on many, many levels.

Greg Little, 2011: 61 (targets) 121 (catches) 709 (yds) 11.6 (per) 2(tds)

Pierre Garcon: Pierre Garcon: 70 (targets) 134 (catches) 947 (yds) 13.5 (per) 6 (tds)

So, lets analyze these numbers. Garcon caught a whopping 13 catches more for the season, on 9 more attempts. (So his percentage is 52%, compared to GL's 50%) Little was a RAW rookie who barely saw any action in his first few games, in large part because he HADNT PLAYED im over a year. (7 catches through 3 weeks) GL didn't have anyone on the opposite side of the field taking attention away from him. (Versus Garcon who had Reggie Wayne out yonder)

The most important stat to me, however, is the following: 41 to 28 targets within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. The Browns run a bullshit archaic form of the West coast offense, and regardless of the merits of Painter/Orlovsky vs. Colteca Mcwallace, the Colts offense is designed to air the ball out.

Adjusting for offenses and the time spent integrating Little into the offense.... in 2012, i'd say the difference between Garcon and Little is completely negligible. YMMV, but it appears nearly every analyst/writer agrees with me that he was MASSIVELY overpaid by the Skins. Shit, I feel like Morgan is already a better receiver.

Regardless of whether you think Garcon is better, the point remains that he sure as F*** isn't 8M$ better. He's a decent #2 option on a team with an established #1 WR, and......we already have that.

I am not sure if I can believe your logic when you think these guys can have more catches than targets.

Wayne is past his prime as a true 1, and Garçon often drew the top corner on the opposing team.

I'm not sure I can successfully argue with anyone who thinks that Tim Tebow is actually a quarterback. Way to point out my typo.

Never argue with an idiot, they'll just drag you down to their level and then win with experience.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

This is all pretty funny considering e0 is a fan of that little white guy receiver from a team known as The Pasties....errr,,,,,Patsies

I feel for him tho.....it must be a great burden carrying all that 'White Guilt" around for the rest of us....

I'm glad you're there for me "Bro" even tho

[pup]

White America (and mainly the Mid-West) made Peyton Hillis (a guy who always played well when given shots, from college up) the face of the NFL for a pretty good NFL season.

It was a load of shit.

Right up there with "I don't want to draft a black QB because they can't play under center and run too much"

I'm not accusing you of this doing, but if you don't think race played a key role in Hillis going from pseudo known to Madden Cover Boy/Letterman/etc you lying to yourself.

He immediately became overrated. And I'm sure it played a role in his mental breakdown. Everyone living vicariously through him can pat themselves on the back.

Nope. He was on the cover of Madden because of all the unemployed Clevelander's sitting home and voting 10,000 times. I could probably find the thread if I need to.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Code: Select all

[b][i]I'm not sure I can successfully argue with anyone who thinks that Tim Tebow is actually a quarterback. Way to point out my typo.[/i][/b]

Dear Lord....someone here thinks that?

Damn...I'm glad to have missed it

[jb]

I'm all about players not getting blown and turned into national stars because it is perceived they are limited by their skin color and/or people get all excited because, hey, HE'S WHITE!!!!

It was every bit as disgusting as the RG3, hey, HE'S MIKE VICK!!!!!

Until you figure out dude came from nowhere to amass 1500 total yards and 11 touchdowns.

Wouldn't matter if he was green, Browns fans are going to love that dude. Especially when you do it in the style and manner he did. Running dudes over. Long runs where he hurdled dudes. He was a highlight machine.

This.

But even so, kicking Browns fan is like cooking ants with a magnifying lens when it comes to exposing one's soul.

BTW - There was nothing wrong with Black folk feeling a connection to Warren Moon or Doug Williams.

And I'm talking about racial elements in sports with Chowd Fanboy. Beam me up.

[SoulDawg74]

Hillis being embraced by middle white America still pisses me off.

Guy was okay at football and became a gawd because he was white and a hick.

It was a load and shit.

I have my reasons for laughing at his decline and they are founded in his bullshit rise to superstar.

SD:

Kid wasn't the sharpest tool in the box , but he played with toughness guts and heart .

His problems didn't start until heckert overpaid Cong balls and deliberately lowballed the only player who produced in the last half decade .

We're worse without him , we lost toughness and a player even our division opponents respected.

SoulDawg

[e0y2e3]

I'm all about players not getting blown and turned into national stars because it is perceived they are limited by their skin color and/or people get all excited because, hey, HE'S WHITE!!!!

It was every bit as disgusting as the RG3, hey, HE'S MIKE VICK!!!!!

Until you figure out dude came from nowhere to amass 1500 total yards and 11 touchdowns.

Wouldn't matter if he was green, Browns fans are going to love that dude. Especially when you do it in the style and manner he did. Running dudes over. Long runs where he hurdled dudes. He was a highlight machine.

This.

But even so, kicking Browns fan is like cooking ants with a magnifying lens when it comes to exposing one's soul.

BTW - There was nothing wrong with Black folk feeling a connection to Warren Moon or Doug Williams.

And I'm talking about racial elements in sports with Chowd Fanboy. Beam me up.

Yep, tribalistic bullshit.

It saved Big Ben, Grilled Mike Vick and turned a pretty good RB into a national icon.

Until we stop doing it we'll still be a fucked up lot, it is what it is.


Fuck peyton Hillis and his being treated like a gawd for being okay. Guy rose to heights approaching anything Sizemore or James did when he couldn't hold their jocks in their day.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I didn't want him back because he put himself before the team...

Just like I never wanted Mangina for being a naive petulant fucking rat

Fuck him

Fuck lerner

Fuck Holmkert

Fuck the Browns

BTW, what day is the draft?

[pup]

I didn't want him back because he put himself before the team...

Just like I never wanted Mangina for being a naive petulant fucking rat

Fuck him

Fuck lerner

Fuck Holmkert

Fuck the Browns

BTW, what day is the draft?

Following the wrong sport if you are looking for 53 that put team in front of 53. Shit, following sports is probably the wrong way to go if that is what you are looking for. Might want to join a Navy Seal Fantasy League.

[pup]

Remember, you cannot get marquee free agents to come to cold weather places that have not made the playoffs in a decade.

Regards,

Mario Williams



I know, every Super Bowl has been won without Mario. We have more holes than one DE. He doesn't add wins worth that kind of money....

This regime blows. Take your time deciding when you can draw that conclusion for yourselves. Another 7 years and it should all be coming together!

[peeker643]

Remember, you cannot get marquee free agents to come to cold weather places that have not made the playoffs in a decade.

Regards,

Mario Williams



I know, every Super Bowl has been won without Mario. We have more holes than one DE. He doesn't add wins worth that kind of money....

This regime blows. Take your time deciding when you can draw that conclusion for yourselves. Another 7 years and it should all be coming together!

See, you're mixing metaphors. I'm not arguing the regime blows. That's a different story. Don't go the polarization route.

I can agree with that and disagree letting go of Hillis has anything to do with their suck. Their unwillingness to upgrade the WR spot for a couple years, the retention of Mangini, the not giving a rookie coach a coordinator in a strike year stuff, all of that I'll use to judge the regime.

Not Hillis...and not failing to capitulate to another pick in the RG3 thing. I'm fine with how they handled that. The regime didn't call for a player's intervention for that psychotic RB, by the way.

You want to wager they get more production from whichever RB replaces Hillis than Hillis gave us last season? And that said RB is within 80-120% of Hillis's price tag?

Parlay!!

[SoulDawg74]

Remember, you cannot get marquee free agents to come to cold weather places that have not made the playoffs in a decade.

Regards,

Mario Williams



I know, every Super Bowl has been won without Mario. We have more holes than one DE. He doesn't add wins worth that kind of money....

This regime blows. Take your time deciding when you can draw that conclusion for yourselves. Another 7 years and it should all be coming together!

See, you're mixing metaphors. I'm not arguing the regime blows. That's a different story. Don't go the polarization route.

I can agree with that and disagree letting go of Hillis has anything to do with their suck. Their unwillingness to upgrade the WR spot for a couple years, the retention of Mangini, the not giving a rookie coach a coordinator in a strike year stuff, all of that I'll use to judge the regime.

Not Hillis...and not failing to capitulate to another pick in the RG3 thing. I'm fine with how they handled that. The regime didn't call for a player's intervention for that psychotic RB, by the way.

You want to wager they get more production from whichever RB replaces Hillis than Hillis gave us last season? And that said RB is within 80-120% of Hillis's price tag?

Parlay!!

SD:

Last year isn't indicative of Hillis worth when he's on the back your paying is the 1500 and 11 .

The Browns messed his head up when they paid that hump ahead of hillis and called him a core player .

There is an art to handling stars and you don't hit them in a toe with a ball Peen to get their attention.

and Fuck Holmgren

The RG3 debacle was deliberate


SoulDawg

O

[JCoz]

Remember that time the Braylon Edwards trade was the worst trade in the history of the Browns and he went out and proved Ctown and their hateful Ohio State fans were just holding him down?

Good times.

2010 Peyton Hillis, meet 2007 Braylon Edwards, you two are going to be goood friends.

But yah this regime sucks. Got little to nothing to do with Hillis walking though.

[peeker643]

Awesome:

Amani Toomer Calls Jeremy Shockey Bad Teammate, Worse Person

One ex-New York Giant believes Jeremy Shockey should remain just that – a former member of Big Blue.

It was reported this morning that Shockey, a free agent, has made it known he would be open to returning to the Giants, a team he left while seemingly burning most bridges on his way out of town four years ago.

Keep it that way says Amani Toomer, the former Giants wide receiver and teammate of Shockey.

“No!!Shockey"I will never play4 you again!"he yelled at jerry Reese in 08. Let him keep his word. Bad teammate, worse person,” Toomer wrote on his Twitter account this morning.

[JCoz]

Remember that time I talked out of both side of my mouth regarding bitching about the browns overpaying players? What's that? Oh wait that's happening right now.....

http://mobile.cleveland.com/advcleve/pm_29205/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=VR60NZqk&rwthr=0

3/16 for Dimitri Patterson you say? Championship!

[Hikohadon]

Remember that time I talked out of both side of my mouth regarding bitching about the browns overpaying players? What's that? Oh wait that's happening right now.....

http://mobile.cleveland.com/advcleve/pm_29205/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=VR60NZqk&rwthr=0

3/16 for Dimitri Patterson you say? Championship!

Yeah, that's a little steep. Wonder how it's structured. He's a solid Nickelback, though.

Seems like 80% of the Browns own Free Agents re-signed. Hillis was the only one to run away as quick as he could (which isn't that fast).

But Hillis was probably right - must've been everyone else that was wrong.