#4, #22, and _________?

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Matt Flynn has started 2 NFL games.....2!

Snyder is driving the price up because he's a moron and willing to pay way too much.

I like RGIII, but that's too much to give up IMO.

If you don't want Flynn, and don't want to pay for RG3, what is your long term solution at QB?

I'm not paid to find long term solutions for the Cleveland Browns. I don't want to pay that much. Snyder is a fool.

I would give up both firsts and one other pick. But not a first next year. That's too much IMO.

[Hikohadon]

I agree that it will be a lot to give up (whatever it ends up being) and it will be painful. But, if we do not go up and get RG3 this year, who is our long term solution at QB and how do we get him?

Go 2-14 so you don't have to worry about trading up. Hope that there's a great prospect available the year you do it.

We all want to go to the show, but we don't want to pay the price of admission.

This sucker's sold out, kids, and ya gotta pay what the scalpers are askin' or you can watch clips of it on YouTube.

The price of admission on prospects like these is a slew of draft picks or suck worse than we've sucked since 2000 (which should be fun since the fanbase is already so happy). But make sure you do it on a year where it'll be worth it.

No big deal... if we don't feel like paying, we can always go watch that guy doing karaoke down at the bowling alley like last year.

[Hikohadon]

Matt Flynn has started 2 NFL games.....2!

Snyder is driving the price up because he's a moron and willing to pay way too much.

I like RGIII, but that's too much to give up IMO.

If you don't want Flynn, and don't want to pay for RG3, what is your long term solution at QB?

I'm not paid to find long term solutions for the Cleveland Browns. I don't want to pay that much. Snyder is a fool.

I would give up both firsts and one other pick. But not a first next year. That's too much IMO.

The report has WAS giving up a first this year and a first next (along with a 2nd and 3rd). That's 2 first round picks, same as if the Browns gave up #4 and #22.

I don't think anyone is suggesting a 3rd first rounder.

[comish]

You make it happen no matter the cost

You make it happen because this fan base deserves better than a kicker being the most prominant player on the team (See banner above)

If you are sure he is a player....you make it happen

DAMN the consequences and regret...what really do we have to lose that isn't already lost?

I want to be excited again

[FUDU]

I'm just so torn on this.

I can totally see myself screaming "hells yeah" and asking HooDoo if I could hug him if we did get RG3 regardless of cost.

But I could also see myself turfing mo's lawn in September if we didn't do everything it takes and had the #1 ranked defense but still had Colt starting.

[peeker643]

I'm just so torn on this.

I can totally see myself screaming "hells yeah" and asking HooDoo if I could hug him if we did get RG3 regardless of cost.

But I could also see myself turfing mo's lawn in September if we didn't do everything it takes and had the #1 ranked defense but still had Colt starting.

Well let us know where you ultimately fall on this because we're all really fucking concerned about it.

[pup]

According to John Czarnecki of FOX Sports, the Rams have been getting "weird, uninterested signals" from the Browns on the possibility of trading up two spots to draft Baylor's Robert Griffin III.

[bucknutz94]

^^^^shocking.

[pod2dawg]

No big deal... if we don't feel like paying, we can always go watch that guy doing karaoke down at the bowling alley like last year.

...been doing that for years. Every fucking year more of those karaokers wearing Steeler jerseys.

RGIII or die!

[Govbarney]

According to John Czarnecki of FOX Sports, the Rams have been getting "weird, uninterested signals" from the Browns on the possibility of trading up two spots to draft Baylor's Robert Griffin III.

Why show your hand this far out, patience is key, keep your mouth shut , and wait till see what everyone else does. The Browns gain nothing by openly salivating over RG3 like Washington, and KC have done.

[Hikohadon]

According to John Czarnecki of FOX Sports, the Rams have been getting "weird, uninterested signals" from the Browns on the possibility of trading up two spots to draft Baylor's Robert Griffin III.

Could mean anything. Or nothing.

[peeker643]

Next 8 weeks are gonna be epic with anyone having a blog or weak 'legit' site affiliation fanning the flames.

Believe nothing.

But from a common sense standpoint, are the Browns supposed to lick at the lap of the Rams and drive the cost up?

People are GD dumb. Doesn't anyone watch Storage Wars?

[e0y2e3]

According to John Czarnecki of FOX Sports, the Rams have been getting "weird, uninterested signals" from the Browns on the possibility of trading up two spots to draft Baylor's Robert Griffin III.

Could mean anything. Or nothing.

Is Heckert even back in the office yet?

I did snicker at the FoxSports article citing the Browns coaches not knowing what to do with RG3 and Holmes not knowing if he wants "Vick" in his offense though.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

Per the Weekend Wrap:

On the newer draft value charts, the 4th pick and the 37th pick should be enough to buy you that move from 4th to 2nd. If you have to go 4th and 22nd then you clearly do so. If for some ungodly reason you need to go 4th, 22nd and 68th (3rd rounder) for what you believe to be the most dynamic player to come out in a decade then you hold your nose and probably do it.

This just doesn't compute with me Peek. On the older draft value charts, the #2 is valued at 2600 pts, #4 at 1800 points and #37 at 530 points. So 4 + 37 only added up to 2330 which is still less than the value for #2. Even #22, valued at 780 pts, would still fall short by 20 points. Now, with the new CBA, we can all agree that draft picks have gotten significantly more valuable so it will take significantly more picks to move up from #4 to #2.


If you have a link to these new draft charts, post-new CBA, I would love to see it as I've been searching for the last 15 minutes and can only find the old ones. I believe it will take GM's/draftniks a few years into the new CBA before a reliable measure of draft value per pick can be determined a la the Jimmy Johnson value chart.

[mattvan1]

According to John Czarnecki of FOX Sports, the Rams have been getting "weird, uninterested signals" from the Browns on the possibility of trading up two spots to draft Baylor's Robert Griffin III.

Could mean anything. Or nothing.

Is Heckert even back in the office yet?

I did snicker at the FoxSports article citing the Browns coaches not knowing what to do with RG3 and Holmes not knowing if he wants "Vick" in his offense though.

Would he know what to do with Ryan Tannehill ?

[peeker643]

I like Scott Wright's site so I go there as often as he updates it. I got the chart there.

This is his site: http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-A.php

This is the url to the chart he uses: http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

Looks like the chart you reference is the same one.

Based on the value chart that teams use it would cost the Browns their second round pick to move up a couple spots and ensure they get Griffin, which is a relatively small price to pay for a potential franchise signal caller.

Per the Weekend Wrap:

On the newer draft value charts, the 4th pick and the 37th pick should be enough to buy you that move from 4th to 2nd. If you have to go 4th and 22nd then you clearly do so. If for some ungodly reason you need to go 4th, 22nd and 68th (3rd rounder) for what you believe to be the most dynamic player to come out in a decade then you hold your nose and probably do it.

This just doesn't compute with me Peek. On the older draft value charts, the #2 is valued at 2600 pts, #4 at 1800 points and #37 at 530 points. So 4 + 37 only added up to 2330 which is still less than the value for #2. Even #22, valued at 780 pts, would still fall short by 20 points. Now, with the new CBA, we can all agree that draft picks have gotten significantly more valuable so it will take significantly more picks to move up from #4 to #2.


If you have a link to these new draft charts, post-new CBA, I would love to see it as I've been searching for the last 15 minutes and can only find the old ones. I believe it will take GM's/draftniks a few years into the new CBA before a reliable measure of draft value per pick can be determined a la the Jimmy Johnson value chart.

[JCoz]

Per the Weekend Wrap:

On the newer draft value charts, the 4th pick and the 37th pick should be enough to buy you that move from 4th to 2nd. If you have to go 4th and 22nd then you clearly do so. If for some ungodly reason you need to go 4th, 22nd and 68th (3rd rounder) for what you believe to be the most dynamic player to come out in a decade then you hold your nose and probably do it.

This just doesn't compute with me Peek. On the older draft value charts, the #2 is valued at 2600 pts, #4 at 1800 points and #37 at 530 points. So 4 + 37 only added up to 2330 which is still less than the value for #2. Even #22, valued at 780 pts, would still fall short by 20 points. Now, with the new CBA, we can all agree that draft picks have gotten significantly more valuable so it will take significantly more picks to move up from #4 to #2.


If you have a link to these new draft charts, post-new CBA, I would love to see it as I've been searching for the last 15 minutes and can only find the old ones. I believe it will take GM's/draftniks a few years into the new CBA before a reliable measure of draft value per pick can be determined a la the Jimmy Johnson value chart.

I dont think it is as significantly different as was thought.

This is a more unique situation that resembles a bidding war more than a true value of the slots involved. IMO the chart is a starting guidline but for this case you probably can throw it out the window to a certain extent.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

I dont think it is as significantly different as was thought.

This is a more unique situation that resembles a bidding war more than a true value of the slots involved. IMO the chart is a starting guidline but for this case you probably can throw it out the window to a certain extent.

I agree that this will be a unique situation but I do think that the change will be significant. We're talking 40% of the guaranteed money that the last pre-CBA QB received (Bradford at $50 million, Newton at $22 million) for the same pick. Thinking simply shows that the top picks should be at least 60% more valuable, just based on the value gained from a contract with less guaranteed money.


My point was that if you use the old value chart as the cutoff point in the number of picks offered, you aren't going to be drafting RG3.

[peeker643]

The bigger issue isn't the value chart. It's the law of supply and demand. The chart gets ya close with 4 and 37. In the neighborhood where a 3rd or 4th can get it done.

But the level of interest and the value other organizations put into the kid will blow up the chart to the point it's meaningless.

Still, at some point you have to determine just how steep a price you're willing to pay.

My point is that that price didn't go up or down this weekend. These guys all knew what RG3 was gonna do. He could have lost some luster if he reported oos or if he was 6'1" or less or if he came off as arrogant and disinterested in his media interviews (or had the medical exam revealed any concerns like with Richardson). The inflation or regression in value will come in the next month or so when he sits down with these guys in film rooms.

I dont think it is as significantly different as was thought.

This is a more unique situation that resembles a bidding war more than a true value of the slots involved. IMO the chart is a starting guidline but for this case you probably can throw it out the window to a certain extent.

I agree that this will be a unique situation but I do think that the change will be significant. We're talking 40% of the guaranteed money that the last pre-CBA QB received (Bradford at $50 million, Newton at $22 million) for the same pick. Thinking simply shows that the top picks should be at least 60% more valuable, just based on the value gained from a contract with less guaranteed money.


My point was that if you use the old value chart as the cutoff point in the number of picks offered, you aren't going to be drafting RG3.

[andrew6586]

I heard someone mention that we should consider giving up both 1sts this year, our 2nd and our 1st and two picks next year... TO MOVE UP 2 FREAKING SPOTS! We would be giving a better deal than Atlanta gave us last year to move up 20 spots. We should in no way be considering anything more than #4 and #37. I understand that there is a bidding war going on but come on, we cannot sell the farm for this guy. We need so much more. Let Washington pay out the nose. They usually do it anyway.

[JCoz]

I heard someone mention that we should consider giving up both 1sts this year, our 2nd and our 1st and two picks next year... TO MOVE UP 2 FREAKING SPOTS! We would be giving a better deal than Atlanta gave us last year to move up 20 spots. We should in no way be considering anything more than #4 and #37. I understand that there is a bidding war going on but come on, we cannot sell the farm for this guy. We need so much more. Let Washington pay out the nose. They usually do it anyway.

Andrew that wouldn't even work on a draft chart, forget about a bidding war.

[Hikohadon]

Maybe Heckert should have Scott Wright call up the Rams and talk some sense into them.

I've never liked it when guys paid more attention to the draft chart other than as a very loose guideline.

Now, with this new CBA, and in this situation in particular, there's never been a more apt time to take the ol' draft chart out to the back yard, beat it with a shovel, drop the drawers, and make it into an above-ground septic tank.

In this scenario, it's as meaningless as a dead mongoose in a landfill.

[peeker643]

Maybe Heckert should have Scott Wright call up the Rams and talk some sense into them.

I've never liked it when guys paid more attention to the draft chart other than as a very loose guideline.

Now, with this new CBA, and in this situation in particular, there's never been a more apt time to take the ol' draft chart out to the back yard, beat it with a shovel, drop the drawers, and make it into an above-ground septic tank.

In this scenario, it's as meaningless as a dead mongoose in a landfill.

It's a data point and a point of reference. You'd be fine if the Browns paid the appropriate draft chart price to move up in Round 4.

No, it's not going to apply anymore than when people wanted to pay 20x retail for a fucking Tickle Me Elmo.


'Dead mongoose in a landfill'?? You're a strange duck.

[HoodooMan]

No, it's not going to apply anymore than when people wanted to pay 20x retail for a fucking Tickle Me Elmo.

Apt analogy.

Don't be those dumbass parents, Ayches. The kids will get over it.

[FUDU]

Peeker is calling someone else a strange duck yet he's the one talking about Tickle Me Elmo's that fuck?

[SoulDawg74]

Peeker is calling someone else a strange duck yet he's the one talking about Tickle Me Elmo's that fuck?

SD:

He's talking supply and demand Dickweed .

Anybody with Children will remeber the extortion prices for that stupid doll like old Folks never forget the 29 depression .

But since you a lizard and cold blooded reptiles eat their young , I could understand how you missed the reference .



SoulDawg

[FUDU]

LMAO.

Try and keep up SD.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

People are GD dumb. Doesn't anyone watch Storage Wars?

How much of my little remaining cred would I lose for admitting that?

[pup]

People are GD dumb. Doesn't anyone watch Storage Wars?

How much of my little remaining cred would I lose for admitting that?

You would pick some up in my eyes.

I mean, once you are in the Strato-Geeks Society, you are at the bottom.

[Hikohadon]

No, it's not going to apply anymore than when people wanted to pay 20x retail for a fucking Tickle Me Elmo.

Apt analogy.

Don't be those dumbass parents, Ayches. The kids will get over it.

True, because they'll grow out of toys like that in a year and Tickle Me Elmo will go out of style before that.

(Possible) Elite/Franchise QB's never go out of style, and the kids in question will never stop wanting one.

[e0y2e3]

strato-geek + storage wars?

that puts right in the middle of mother/peeker/fudu land.

enjoy!

[HoodooMan]

(Possible) Elite/Franchise QB's never go out of style, and the kids in question will never stop wanting one.

But they'll stop wanting that one.

I really want one too. In fact, I'd really love for it to be that one. But at this price, the smart move is to pass and wait for another opportunity.

(With one enormous caveat: if we like RG3 more than Ryan Tannehill, but we use the #4 overall pick on Tannehill because the price is too high for RG3, that's about the only thing I'd like less than us dealing all those picks for RG3. If you're going to pay a really high price for a franchise QB prospect--and the #4 pick alone is a really high price--make sure it's the right franchise QB prospect.)

[e0y2e3]

^ only against trading #4, #22 and a 2nd next year because it effs up his ability to be a draft geek

[HoodooMan]

No.

Just to go with #4, #22, and #37, because that's easier (and IMO more realistic, and possibly just as a starting point for a deal that includes some other lower round picks), I think Justin Blackmon at 4, Cordy Glenn at 22, and David Wilson at 37 (<--projecting one direction I could see us taking with those picks, not the selections I would personally make) is better than RG3 alone. Matt Flynn in FA would make that even better, though it looks like the Packers just positioned themselves to F that up for whichever team wants him.

[gotribe31]

LMAO.

Try and keep up SD.

What?

[Hikohadon]

(Possible) Elite/Franchise QB's never go out of style, and the kids in question will never stop wanting one.

But they'll stop wanting that one.

I really want one too. In fact, I'd really love for it to be that one. But at this price, the smart move is to pass and wait for another opportunity.

I think you give this fanbase too much credit. I still see dudes whining about passing on LaDanian Tomlinson, for Christ's sake. People can't mention Haloti Ngata's name without a pang of regret. SD was pining after Mark freakin' Sanchez. They'll forget their kid's names before they forget an elite prospect passed in the draft.

And with RG3 playing QB, the most visible position in sports, if he turns out to be a Top 10 QB in a couple years, people will lose their damn minds.

And they will continue to do so until the Browns obtain someone that is at least as good as (but preferably better than) RG3.

You will NEVER hear the end of it.

So if the Browns don't get RG3, we'd all best pray that he's a huge bust. Because if my kids whined as much about not getting Tickle Me Elmo as the Cleveland fans will whine about passing on RG3 (who they ALL knew was going to be GREAT!), then I'd fake my own death and move to Portugal just so I wouldn't have to hear it anymore.

[Hikohadon]

No.

Just to go with #4, #22, and #37, because that's easier (and IMO more realistic, and possibly just as a starting point for a deal that includes some other lower round picks), I think Justin Blackmon at 4, Cordy Glenn at 22, and David Wilson at 37 (<--projecting one direction I could see us taking with those picks, not the selections I would personally make) is better than RG3 alone. Matt Flynn in FA would make that even better, though it looks like the Packers just positioned themselves to F that up for whichever team wants him.

We'll find out about Flynn in a week, but I've read a couple places that it's unlikely to happen.

word on the street is that the Packers won't be using their franchise tag on Flynn, primarily because it goes against the spirit of the franchise-tag rule (you're not supposed to use it with the intention of trading it). So it appears that Flynn will hit the open market and be free to sign with whatever team can't make a move up to grab Robert Griffin III with the Rams No. 2 pick.

http://eye-on-football.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/35001399

[HoodooMan]

But does anyone except SD equate not trading up for a player with passing on him?

Obviously, it helps that they didn't all work out so well, but I can't remember the last time I heard someone bemoaning the fact that we failed to deal up for Deuce McAllister, Bryant McKinnie, Robert Gallery, AJ Hawk, Aaron Curry, or Eric Berry.

And I don't think I'm giving our fans too much credit at all. If they choose that as the stupid thing to say for the moment, that's no different for me from whatever other stupid thing they'd be saying in its place if that wasn't an option.

[HoodooMan]

They didn't mind violating the "spirit of the franchise tag rule" (<--seriously, WTF?) with Corey Williams in 2008.

If they think they can get a high 2nd rounder out of one of us or Miami, I don't think they'll hesitate to do it. I didn't think they would before they re-signed Finley, but now I see little reason not to.

(And FTR, I'd be very much against 37 for Flynn. A 3rd rounder or lower, I'd be OK with. Pick-free on the open market in FA, I'd be happyish and at the very least relieved by the signing.)

[e0y2e3]

Flynn = Kolb and Feely, book it....

[Hikohadon]

But does anyone except SD equate not trading up for a player with passing on him?

If another team with a lower pick trades up for a pick that was openly available, you'd better bet your ass that everyone will consider it as the Browns "passing on him".

That slot clearly is in the window with a big red sign on it that says "Four 1st Round picks (Or Best Offer). Inquire within day or night."

Even the fans that say right now that they wouldn't make the trade will be cursing Heckert in 3 years for nutlessness should the Skins jump up and get him and he's great.

[Hikohadon]

They didn't mind violating the "spirit of the franchise tag rule" (<--seriously, WTF?) with Corey Williams in 2008.

If they think they can get a high 2nd rounder out of one of us or Miami, I don't think they'll hesitate to do it. I didn't think they would before they re-signed Finley, but now I see little reason not to.

(And FTR, I'd be very much against 37 for Flynn. A 3rd rounder or lower, I'd be OK with. Pick-free on the open market in FA, I'd be happyish and at the very least relieved by the signing.)

Part of me hopes that they DO franchise Flynn, and then no one makes them an offer. So they're stuck paying a backup QB $22 mil.

I know it won't happen, but it would sure as hell put a stop to THAT practice.

And agree - I will lose my shit if they trade a 2nd for Matt Flynn, especially when throwing the #22 pick in with that 2nd might get you RG3.

[HoodooMan]

Flynn = Kolb and Feely, book it....

It feels that way to me too. But I wouldn't mind us rolling the dice with a 3rd round pick or lower. Right now, more than anything, because it'd take us out of what appears to be building into an insane bidding war for RG3.

I would sigh a sigh of relief. Then I'd begin to wonder if us getting Flynn would undercut some of STL's leverage. Maybe we could even get in on a deal to move down with Washington or Miami.

[pup]

Flynn = Kolb and Feely, book it....

It feels that way to me too. But I wouldn't mind us rolling the dice with a 3rd round pick or lower. Right now, more than anything, because it'd take us out of what appears to be building into an insane bidding war for RG3.

I would sigh a sigh of relief. Then I'd begin to wonder if us getting Flynn would undercut some of STL's leverage. Maybe we could even get in on a deal to move down with Washington or Miami.

If they franchise him, is the team that trades for him on the hook for that franchise $$$$$?

Because if so...fuck that.

[e0y2e3]

If you cannot work out a long term deal and he signs the one year tender, yes, you are.

And I'm not in the trading back every year camp, I've spent too many years watching Mumbles do it in New England (and Mangini in Cleveland) with constant failure the result.

Elite players are elite players, draft them or trade up for them (I pay three top three round picks for RG3 and maybe some late round fodder).

[Hikohadon]

There's no way they (or anyone) would trade for a Franchised Flynn without having already worked out a long term deal. I'm not sure you're even allowed to.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

I think Justin Blackmon at 4, Cordy Glenn at 22, and David Wilson at 37 (<--projecting one direction I could see us taking with those picks, not the selections I would personally make) is better than RG3 alone.

Boy are people going to be angry when they realize that Blackmon isn't in the same league as AJ Green. You only draft a WR that high (top 7-10) if it's Calvin Johnson or AJ Green; Blackmon is more Anquan Boldin. He's shorter and slower than AJ Green while his hands might be minimally better.

You wasting a #4 overall pick on a luxury position for a guy that might not be one of the 10 best players at his position? I sure as hell wouldn't. And before you come back at me with RG3, he's got the potential ceiling to be a top 10 QB. Hell with his ceiling, it wouldn't surprise me if he's the top QB of the next generation.

[HoodooMan]

His hands aren't better than AJ's either, but I don't think he has to be AJ Green to be worthy of the #4 overall pick.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

People are GD dumb. Doesn't anyone watch Storage Wars?

How much of my little remaining cred would I lose for admitting that?

All of it

[jb]

According to John Czarnecki of FOX Sports, the Rams have been getting "weird, uninterested signals" from the Browns on the possibility of trading up two spots to draft Baylor's Robert Griffin III.

Could mean anything. Or nothing.

I guarantee you are correct.