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RG all in

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Re: RG all in

Unread postby CleSportsTruth » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:50 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:Seriously, I don't understand why Colt Mccoy, a qb that spend most of his time in a spread offense, is a guy that they are willing to give the keys to the kingdom to, and RGIII is not.

FOR FUCK SAKE:

Colt Mccoy Rushing attempts his last 2 years:
136 for 561
129 for 348

RGIII his last 2 years:
179 for 699 yds
149 for 635 yds

And one of Colts greatest STRENGTHS coming out of college was his accuracy and mobility. So, somehow, somefuckingway, H+H are not interested in RGIII because (a) he ran the ball 20-40 times more a SEASON than a guy they DID draft, or because b) he's MORE accurate than the guy they DID draft or c) because he's actually capable of doing the one thing that the guy they DID draft couldn't, throw the ball deep?

If you want to argue that they wont draft him because they feel they can find "their" guy in a later round or FA or hiding in the CFL, i'll buy that, hook line and sinker. They've got a track record for it.

Saying they wont draft him because he's not "their type of qb" is going to make me go insane.


Again, getting in H+H's heads, think they might, privately, regret taking McCoy? And, either way, they might think, McCoy was a 3rd-round flier pick, not #4 overall. They'd planned on Colt not playing at all year one, while learning an NFL "offense" (archaic as it was).

IMHO, they'd have taken Matt Barkley at 4 in a second. They see him as more "NFL Ready" from the start. Ditto, of course, Luck.

In the end, I suspect it won't matter b/c the Lambs will trade #2 to WSH or Miami, who will take RGIII.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:53 pm

I see RGIII more in the Doug Williams light, really.








I'm justy trying to telekinetically kill e0y.

Oh... but I would prefer no one ever, ever EVER bring up the fucking accuracy point with French 12 QBs like it means one fucking thing.

The deer and the antelope are more pressed than the receivers in that area of the country.

So don't bitch about McCoy's accuracy in the NFL and then tout RGIII's as equal to or better. You don't fucking know anything until he's throwing through windows that are windows instead of airplane hangar doors.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby LakeErieWarriors » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:07 pm

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1006 ... riffin-iii

^^Good read.
Another thing to think about: Little Colty went to UTexas, a GD football powerhouse. Solid, fast receivers, great protection, running game, coaching, etc. I know RGIII had Kendall Wright, and I'm not sure what the rest of their corps was like, but I know it wasn't shit compared to what Little Colty had. RGIII and his team brought their team to the top 25; the top 25 wasn't waiting for them when they got there. Clearly I'm trying to create a Seventh degree of separation between these two; I can't help it.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:02 pm

LakeErieWarriors wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1006396-2012-nfl-draft-full-scouting-breakdown-and-analysis-for-robert-griffin-iii

^^Good read.
Another thing to think about: Little Colty went to UTexas, a GD football powerhouse. Solid, fast receivers, great protection, running game, coaching, etc. I know RGIII had Kendall Wright, and I'm not sure what the rest of their corps was like, but I know it wasn't shit compared to what Little Colty had. RGIII and his team brought their team to the top 25; the top 25 wasn't waiting for them when they got there. Clearly I'm trying to create a Seventh degree of separation between these two; I can't help it.



SD:

baylor had never had a winning season in the Big 12 until R3 led them to double digit victories this year .

Talking about making something out of nothing , he'll be right at home here.


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Re: RG all in

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:57 pm

LakeErieWarriors wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1006396-2012-nfl-draft-full-scouting-breakdown-and-analysis-for-robert-griffin-iii

^^Good read.
Another thing to think about: Little Colty went to UTexas, a GD football powerhouse. Solid, fast receivers, great protection, running game, coaching, etc. I know RGIII had Kendall Wright, and I'm not sure what the rest of their corps was like, but I know it wasn't shit compared to what Little Colty had. RGIII and his team brought their team to the top 25; the top 25 wasn't waiting for them when they got there. Clearly I'm trying to create a Seventh degree of separation between these two; I can't help it.


Not sure if you mean "Little Colty" as a term of endearment or derision. And my rant is not directed at only you. So maybe I'm way off base here, but I fail to see the reason for all of hate and ridicule dumped on the kid, who probably is tougher and has more balls than all of us put together.

Yes, QBs are a polarizing figure, but all the kid has done is show up, work his ass off, get ignored by Mangini, then get the shit knocked out of him on a weekly basis by running the revolutionary Shurmur offensive scheme.

Is Colt an elite or franchise NFL QB? Hell no. Did H&H take a flyer on a third round guy who just doesn't have the skills required? Hell yes. Brad McCoy is a doosh - no question. But all of that is not the kid's fault. All Colt has done is never complain about the abortion of a hand he was delt by one of the most deer in the headlights head coaches in recent memory. I have far more respect and admiration for him than I do just about anyone else in Berea.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby LakeErieWarriors » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:11 pm

I agree with all you've said there, it's amazing that it took that kind of hit (Harrison) to finally get his ass on the sidelines; he's been beaten up all season. I call him Little Colty because he looks like a kid and frankly, sometimes he throws the ball like a kid. Considering the players he's had surrounding him, he's done a pretty decent job. The bottom line: stick him on the Saints/Pats/Steelers/Packers/Etc. and they're not nearly as good a team. He's a good backup, just like Seneca.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:13 pm

+1

I don't think Colt is theguy. I wish like he'll he was because it would make the Browns a hell of a lot closer than they are. I'd be perfectly happy to be proven wrong about that.

But the fact that the dude is fuckin nails seems pretty unarguable.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:22 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
LakeErieWarriors wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1006396-2012-nfl-draft-full-scouting-breakdown-and-analysis-for-robert-griffin-iii

^^Good read.
Another thing to think about: Little Colty went to UTexas, a GD football powerhouse. Solid, fast receivers, great protection, running game, coaching, etc. I know RGIII had Kendall Wright, and I'm not sure what the rest of their corps was like, but I know it wasn't shit compared to what Little Colty had. RGIII and his team brought their team to the top 25; the top 25 wasn't waiting for them when they got there. Clearly I'm trying to create a Seventh degree of separation between these two; I can't help it.


Not sure if you mean "Little Colty" as a term of endearment or derision. And my rant is not directed at only you. So maybe I'm way off base here, but I fail to see the reason for all of hate and ridicule dumped on the kid, who probably is tougher and has more balls than all of us put together.

Yes, QBs are a polarizing figure, but all the kid has done is show up, work his ass off, get ignored by Mangini, then get the shit knocked out of him on a weekly basis by running the revolutionary Shurmur offensive scheme.

Is Colt an elite or franchise NFL QB? Hell no. Did H&H take a flyer on a third round guy who just doesn't have the skills required? Hell yes. Brad McCoy is a doosh - no question. But all of that is not the kid's fault. All Colt has done is never complain about the abortion of a hand he was delt by one of the most deer in the headlights head coaches in recent memory. I have far more respect and admiration for him than I do just about anyone else in Berea.


This ^^^^^^^
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:07 am

mattvan1 wrote:Not sure if you mean "Little Colty" as a term of endearment or derision. And my rant is not directed at only you. So maybe I'm way off base here, but I fail to see the reason for all of hate and ridicule dumped on the kid, who probably is tougher and has more balls than all of us put together.

Yes, QBs are a polarizing figure, but all the kid has done is show up, work his ass off, get ignored by Mangini, then get the shit knocked out of him on a weekly basis by running the revolutionary Shurmur offensive scheme.

Is Colt an elite or franchise NFL QB? Hell no. Did H&H take a flyer on a third round guy who just doesn't have the skills required? Hell yes. Brad McCoy is a doosh - no question. But all of that is not the kid's fault. All Colt has done is never complain about the abortion of a hand he was delt by one of the most deer in the headlights head coaches in recent memory. I have far more respect and admiration for him than I do just about anyone else in Berea.



Agreed.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby pup » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:17 am

OK. He is tough. Great, so is Chuck Norris. Don't him him playing QB for the Browns either.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:34 am

Wait, is Chuck Norris an option?
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:44 am

motherscratcher wrote:Wait, is Chuck Norris an option?



If he were I'd rather have him at his natural position of hybrid Linebacker/Kickboxer instead of his 4th or 5th best position of QB. Come to think of it, that would still be better than what the Browns have/had.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:33 am

I respect Colt too.

I just don't want him as a starting QB.

There are lots of people that I respect that shouldn't be starting QB's in the NFL.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:11 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
LakeErieWarriors wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1006396-2012-nfl-draft-full-scouting-breakdown-and-analysis-for-robert-griffin-iii

^^Good read.
Another thing to think about: Little Colty went to UTexas, a GD football powerhouse. Solid, fast receivers, great protection, running game, coaching, etc. I know RGIII had Kendall Wright, and I'm not sure what the rest of their corps was like, but I know it wasn't shit compared to what Little Colty had. RGIII and his team brought their team to the top 25; the top 25 wasn't waiting for them when they got there. Clearly I'm trying to create a Seventh degree of separation between these two; I can't help it.


Not sure if you mean "Little Colty" as a term of endearment or derision. And my rant is not directed at only you. So maybe I'm way off base here, but I fail to see the reason for all of hate and ridicule dumped on the kid, who probably is tougher and has more balls than all of us put together.

Yes, QBs are a polarizing figure, but all the kid has done is show up, work his ass off, get ignored by Mangini, then get the shit knocked out of him on a weekly basis by running the revolutionary Shurmur offensive scheme.

Is Colt an elite or franchise NFL QB? Hell no. Did H&H take a flyer on a third round guy who just doesn't have the skills required? Hell yes. Brad McCoy is a doosh - no question. But all of that is not the kid's fault. All Colt has done is never complain about the abortion of a hand he was delt by one of the most deer in the headlights head coaches in recent memory. I have far more respect and admiration for him than I do just about anyone else in Berea.


This ^^^^^^^


SD:

Colt is tougher than a two dollar steak , only problen , he's just as clueless and the steak probably throws a better football.


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Re: RG all in

Unread postby HoodooMan » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:31 pm

mattvan1 wrote:Not sure if you mean "Little Colty" as a term of endearment or derision. And my rant is not directed at only you. So maybe I'm way off base here, but I fail to see the reason for all of hate and ridicule dumped on the kid, who probably is tougher and has more balls than all of us put together.

Yes, QBs are a polarizing figure, but all the kid has done is show up, work his ass off, get ignored by Mangini, then get the shit knocked out of him on a weekly basis by running the revolutionary Shurmur offensive scheme.

Is Colt an elite or franchise NFL QB? Hell no. Did H&H take a flyer on a third round guy who just doesn't have the skills required? Hell yes. Brad McCoy is a doosh - no question. But all of that is not the kid's fault. All Colt has done is never complain about the abortion of a hand he was delt by one of the most deer in the headlights head coaches in recent memory. I have far more respect and admiration for him than I do just about anyone else in Berea.


I can't help but laugh at this a little. I mean, I'm fine with everything you're saying about Colt. I like him, I wish he was better. But "Little Colty" sets you off? Really?

"Little Shurmury" would be about the 1,824th worst thing anyone's called Pat Shurmur this year, who seems to me like a pretty nice guy himself. A guy who's getting trashed for his shitty offense, despite a near consensus on his shitty offensive personnel. Just imagine the things people would be calling Bill Belichick if he fielded his 2011 defense for a bad team in his first year as coach.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:49 pm

In this organization, no one is above being called names.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:54 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:Not sure if you mean "Little Colty" as a term of endearment or derision. And my rant is not directed at only you. So maybe I'm way off base here, but I fail to see the reason for all of hate and ridicule dumped on the kid, who probably is tougher and has more balls than all of us put together.

Yes, QBs are a polarizing figure, but all the kid has done is show up, work his ass off, get ignored by Mangini, then get the shit knocked out of him on a weekly basis by running the revolutionary Shurmur offensive scheme.

Is Colt an elite or franchise NFL QB? Hell no. Did H&H take a flyer on a third round guy who just doesn't have the skills required? Hell yes. Brad McCoy is a doosh - no question. But all of that is not the kid's fault. All Colt has done is never complain about the abortion of a hand he was delt by one of the most deer in the headlights head coaches in recent memory. I have far more respect and admiration for him than I do just about anyone else in Berea.


I can't help but laugh at this a little. I mean, I'm fine with everything you're saying about Colt. I like him, I wish he was better. But "Little Colty" sets you off? Really?

"Little Shurmury" would be about the 1,824th worst thing anyone's called Pat Shurmur this year, who seems to me like a pretty nice guy himself. A guy who's getting trashed for his shitty offense, despite a near consensus on his shitty offensive personnel. Just imagine the things people would be calling Bill Belichick if he fielded his 2011 defense for a bad team in his first year as coach.


In general, player haters set me off. Glad you're amused. As far as picking on Shurmur vs. Colt, Mike Gundy said it best

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Re: RG all in

Unread postby mattvan1 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:19 pm

BTW, I don't believe anyone (that kinda knows football) is on Shurmur for results as much as his approach to the game, his lack of preparation, his in game management, his insistence on calling plays as a first year HC, his pressers.....the list goes on and on and on.

BTW2, the thing that really sets me off is Mike Holmgren pissing down my leg and telling me that's it's raining. That and peeps still carrying a torch for Phil Savage :hide:
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:28 pm

There cannot be one person left here pining for savage. Can't be. Refuse to believe that
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby CP » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:52 pm

I'm lost, so you all are saying that RGIII is a combination of Vick, Seneca Wallace, Troy Smith, Charlie Batch and Tarvaris Jackson?

Or are you saying Colt McCoy is a combo of the Mannings, Brady, Couch, Elway and Brad Johnson?
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby JCoz » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:54 pm

I'm thinking a 50/50 split of Seneca and Cunningham.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:30 am

It appears that Matt's point is that L'il Colty is neither 40 nor a man, and therefore should be exempt from player hating.

:hide:
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:38 am

Hikohadon wrote:It appears that Matt's point is that L'il Colty is neither 40 nor a man, and therefore should be exempt from player hating.

:hide:


Good one. For some reason I just feel badly for the kid. Not usually this mushy and shit. Just a phase I guess.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:43 am

SoulDawg wrote:SD:

Colt is tougher than a two dollar steak , only problen , he's just as clueless and the steak probably throws a better football.


SoulDawg


Even I'll admit that's funny as hell.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby General » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:21 am

mattvan1 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:It appears that Matt's point is that L'il Colty is neither 40 nor a man, and therefore should be exempt from player hating.

:hide:


Good one. For some reason I just feel badly for the kid. Not usually this mushy and shit. Just a phase I guess.


I feel badly for anyone that the Browns draft.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby HoodooMan » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:42 pm

mattvan1 wrote:BTW2, the thing that really sets me off is Mike Holmgren pissing down my leg and telling me that's it's raining. That and peeps still carrying a torch for Phil Savage


HA!

I still don't get the cynicism RE: Holmgren & SHUR, but whatever.

AND PHIL DID MANY GOOD THINGS!

Heckert went a long way towards stealing my heart forever with the tradedown last year and addressing the DL the way he did, but with Phil I'd have never been afraid of us drafting a RT in the Top 10 or an OG in the 1st round the way I do with Tom. (Though, I'm not too worried about Heckert blowing our 2nd rounder on some shitty FA DT that he just had to have but had taken off the market at the last minute.) Also, it remains to be seen if TH believes there is such a thing as a wise high-profile FA signing. LCB & Steinbach were both great signings, and I'd love to see TH take advantage of FA, at least selectively, in a similar way.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby Orenthal » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:42 pm

For e0

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8089 ... ime/page/2

Great source. Just pick one. IMO, in terms of elite prospect, RG3 reminds me of Enes Kanter.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:43 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:BTW2, the thing that really sets me off is Mike Holmgren pissing down my leg and telling me that's it's raining. That and peeps still carrying a torch for Phil Savage


HA!

I still don't get the cynicism RE: Holmgren & SHUR, but whatever.

AND PHIL DID MANY GOOD THINGS!

Heckert went a long way towards stealing my heart forever with the tradedown last year and addressing the DL the way he did, but with Phil I'd have never been afraid of us drafting a RT in the Top 10 or an OG in the 1st round the way I do with Tom. (Though, I'm not too worried about Heckert blowing our 2nd rounder on some shitty FA DT that he just had to have but had taken off the market at the last minute.) Also, it remains to be seen if TH believes there is such a thing as a wise high-profile FA signing. LCB & Steinbach were both great signings, and I'd love to see TH take advantage of FA, at least selectively, in a similar way.


I think it is safe to say that our GM perspective shouldn't be so critical regarding Mr. Savage OR Mr. Heckert compared to what came between them.

I'll take Heckert, since his draft record is imho clearly better (although 2 years might not be enough time for some of his draft picks to crash and burn), but Savage did give us:

2005 - Edwards in the 1st (OK, but certainly not worth his draft position), Pool in the 2nd (mediocre, but still playing), and a whole bunch of outtadaleague.

2006 - Kam Wimbley in the 1st (doing fine in Oakland, not great but solid), DQ in the 2nd (solid pick at that spot AFAIC), Jerome Harrison in the 5th (had about the kind of career you could expect from a 5th rounder), Lawrence Vickers in the 6th, and a whole bunch of crap.

2007 - Joe Thomas in the 1st (no brainer), trade up for Quinn in the 1st (doesn't look good right now), Eric Wright in the 2nd (mediocre at best), and a whole bunch of vomit.

2008 - Because of the Quinn trade, had only 5 picks, none higher than the 4th round. The only player of note was Ahtyba Rubin, 6th round, which, in my opinion, is by far Savage's best pick.

Really, it's not too good a pedigree, but then you look at what ManKok did in it's one year... Savage looks GREAT in comparison.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby trsteve1 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:48 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:
Colt Mccoy Rushing attempts his last 2 years:
136 for 561
129 for 348

RGIII his last 2 years:
179 for 699 yds
149 for 635 yds



Bad comparison, if simply because sacks are included as rushing attempts in NCAA

Also, why can't we just trade for Brady, Rogers or Brees? That's what I always do in my franchise in Madden :dingle:
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby HoodooMan » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:58 am

My thing with Phil was that he had a philosophy that I respected and real-time (with the glaring exception of everything that happened in the 2008 offseason) his decisions made sense.

In hindsight, his execution/our scouting was clearly off. And his failure to draft/sign to scheme was a problem. (Which is one reason I'm so content with the extreme on-the-same-pageiness of our current organization.)
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:07 am

HoodooMan wrote:My thing with Phil was that he had a philosophy that I respected and real-time (with the glaring exception of everything that happened in the 2008 offseason) his decisions made sense.

In hindsight, his execution/our scouting was clearly off. And his failure to draft/sign to scheme was a problem. (Which is one reason I'm so content with the extreme on-the-same-pageiness of our current organization.)


I do wonder how Savage would've done had Randy had the foresight to allow him to select his Coach. Things might've been vastly different.

I also wonder how you don't find a way to get along with Romeo Claus. Damn, that guy is likeable.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:18 am

You guys are judging Savage solely on his draft record. Let's not forget that after Collins-gate Phil was the HMFIC. A job for which he was completely unprepared. 'Course, that one is on Randy Jams.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby jb » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:45 pm

Phils tombstone doesn't read "commission of errors". It reads "omission". Instead of wondering what it would have been like to have Mike Freakin' Nolan on board (yawn) , Phil's choice, I wonder what would have been had it ben Phil and not Clark in that org that was strong at the top. Jammies and Collins completely screwed this one up and Phil became HMFIC by default. That doomed this org. The crime is Randy repeated the error with ManKok. As frustrating s it is with The Big Slow posing as turnaround man, it isn't as bad as it was.

Phil was never in Berea and RAC wasn't strong enough to fill the void. He was constantly scouting. Amazing how bad his picks were given that emphasis. But the real stories are the huge, huge whiffs. KamRahn projected at OLB over Haloti? Ugh. Pool over Khalif Barnes? Buying into Charlie MFing Frye over the SR bowl, his pet project? Keeping both BQ and DA while they subsequently destroyed their value?

I feel like we kinda got "stuck" with Scissorhands in a weak top of the draft. Bad luck. But the absence of almost any late/mid round success other than Big Ty for a SooperScout? Inexcusable.

I did like Savage's use of FA's though. By far the best job in BTNG Era. If we could do that now and keep drafting better we'd win 8 games in short order.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:27 pm

jb wrote:Phils tombstone doesn't read "commission of errors". It reads "omission". Instead of wondering what it would have been like to have Mike Freakin' Nolan on board (yawn) , Phil's choice, I wonder what would have been had it ben Phil and not Clark in that org that was strong at the top. Jammies and Collins completely screwed this one up and Phil became HMFIC by default. That doomed this org. The crime is Randy repeated the error with ManKok. As frustrating s it is with The Big Slow posing as turnaround man, it isn't as bad as it was.

Phil was never in Berea and RAC wasn't strong enough to fill the void. He was constantly scouting. Amazing how bad his picks were given that emphasis. But the real stories are the huge, huge whiffs. KamRahn projected at OLB over Haloti? Ugh. Pool over Khalif Barnes? Buying into Charlie MFing Frye over the SR bowl, his pet project? Keeping both BQ and DA while they subsequently destroyed their value?

I feel like we kinda got "stuck" with Scissorhands in a weak top of the draft. Bad luck. But the absence of almost any late/mid round success other than Big Ty for a SooperScout? Inexcusable.

I did like Savage's use of FA's though. By far the best job in BTNG Era. If we could do that now and keep drafting better we'd win 8 games in short order.


As long as were are looking back fondly at the life and times of Phil Savage, let's not forget if Al Davis doesn't take JaMarcus at #1 overall in 2007........
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby Triple-S » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:16 pm

To revisit the point that JB made..

the non-trading of DA sort of pissed me off. If, indeed the rumors were true that the Cowboys wanted to give up a 1st and 3rd as rumored for the interception machine, and you've got a supposed Franchise QB in the waiting, then there's no excuse not to trade him at that point.

By doing that, at least you guarantee yourself to get a decent runningback to replace Jamal Lewis who was the end of the line, or hell insert any possible position there. At least it possibly injects more talent into a team that's sorely lacking it.

granted, BQ was a bust,but the blow of drafting a bust and burning a pick on him would have been softened by the fact you could have had a solid player on the roster.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:30 pm

Triple-S wrote:To revisit the point that JB made..

the non-trading of DA sort of pissed me off. If, indeed the rumors were true that the Cowboys wanted to give up a 1st and 3rd as rumored for the interception machine, and you've got a supposed Franchise QB in the waiting, then there's no excuse not to trade him at that point.

By doing that, at least you guarantee yourself to get a decent runningback to replace Jamal Lewis who was the end of the line, or hell insert any possible position there. At least it possibly injects more talent into a team that's sorely lacking it.

granted, BQ was a bust,but the blow of drafting a bust and burning a pick on him would have been softened by the fact you could have had a solid player on the roster.


In hindsight it is clear and an easy decision. But, at the time, we had no idea what Quinn might be. And, for the first time in over a decade, we had an honest to God Pro Bowl QB in DA. I mean, we've been looking for that for so long, how do you trade that away?

At least it looked that that way to dipshits like me who have no idea what they are talking about. My problem with them not trading DA at the time has less to do with hindsight, because I can understand the reluctance.

My problem with them not trading him is because, even though assholes like myself might question the move, a good GM should know better. A good GM who understands what he's looking at should know that 2007 DA was smoke and mirrors. Otherwise, why the hell is he pulling a paycheck?

I've heard that we could have had a 1st and 3rd for DA. I'm not sure I actually believe that. But, if it's true, it's an epic failure.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby Triple-S » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:51 pm

motherscratcher wrote:My problem with them not trading him is because, even though assholes like myself might question the move, a good GM should know better. A good GM who understands what he's looking at should know that 2007 DA was smoke and mirrors. Otherwise, why the hell is he pulling a paycheck?


I'm an idiot fan, and I could tell by the Bengals game that he wasn't it.

The old quote is this. "If you have 2 QB's, you really have none". Either dump DA on some other team, or dump BQ, and judging by the amount of fans putting stock into BQ playing the role of a Kosar like savior to the franchise, than the decision is simple.

btw, the rumored trade would have sent DA's ass to the Rats, meaning that the Rats wouldn't have drafted Joe Flacco, and keeping them in an even worse Kyle Boller like purgatory, and not on the verge of going to a Super Bowl every-freaking-year.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:55 pm

Triple-S wrote:
motherscratcher wrote:My problem with them not trading him is because, even though assholes like myself might question the move, a good GM should know better. A good GM who understands what he's looking at should know that 2007 DA was smoke and mirrors. Otherwise, why the hell is he pulling a paycheck?


I'm an idiot fan, and I could tell by the Bengals game that he wasn't it.

The old quote is this. "If you have 2 QB's, you really have none". Either dump DA on some other team, or dump BQ, and judging by the amount of fans putting stock into BQ playing the role of a Kosar like savior to the franchise, than the decision is simple.

btw, the rumored trade would have sent DA's ass to the Rats, meaning that the Rats wouldn't have drafted Joe Flacco, and keeping them in an even worse Kyle Boller like purgatory, and not on the verge of going to a Super Bowl every-freaking-year.


Oh. My. God.

I would like "The Most Revisionist and at the Same Time Most Irrelevant QB Discussions in the History of the Cleveland Browns or the Entire NFL for $500, Alex"

A discussion between BQ and DA is no better than a discussion of STD's. It may be interesting, but no one wants either one of them.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:48 pm

Of course it's irrelevant. What the hell do we talk about around here that isn't irrelevant?

Besides, SSS started it.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:38 am

motherscratcher wrote:Of course it's irrelevant. What the hell do we talk about around here that isn't irrelevant?

Besides, SSS started it.


JB mentioned it.

lets blame him.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby jb » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:25 am

It is completely relevant, and was predictable.

As we ALL know, DA had a hot streak. This hot streak was predicted on a few factors. The first was that he has a howitzer attached to this right shoulder. Teams that had game planned the Browns to use about a third of the field with Chuckles got absolutely pantsed the first time Scissorhands ran an old fashion flag pattern against them playing cover 2. This opened up the field for JJ and Winslow, who had amazing hands to make up for DA's inaccuracies. The last piece of the puzzle was that the OL gelled out of nowhere (considering game 1) and 8 Ball started rolling like it was 2001. That, and plenty of good old fashioned luck, something we hadn't seen in a while.

This lasted about 5 games and it was lightening in a bottle. The league adjusted and DA came back down to earth with a thud exposed as a one trick pony. As you could have deduced from his record as a Beaver, once a pick machine always a pick machine. (And that's what scares me about Tannyhill.) Never take a QB who was pick-prone in college. It just gets worse on Sunday.

The point isn't a rehash of a DA vs BQ argument all over again. We all KNOW both didn't have it, though a BQ resurrection to a serviceable player wouldn't floor me.

The issue was keeping both on due opportunity cost and the fact it ensured controversy on a team with an unstable locker room. Whether it was the rumors for DA or say, a hypothetical 3rd for BQ, keeping both was a horrible move real-time. The hindsight, it you want to use that silly notion of hindsight to dismiss outcomes-based analysis, is that neither were the guy.

I can't say this error of omission was what doomed Opie. It was more his lack of understanding of his role, RAC being in over his head, and Jammies being Jammies letting Berea function like an 18th century European court of an idiot inbred king, as well as a cumulative series of less than effective drafts. But this one sure didn't help, and it is very fair to assign accountability for this error of omission. It is much the same with assigning accountability for Heckgren more or less ignoring the FA market or if they continue the approach of a McCoy vs Wallace vs Kolb QB battle royal.

That'll make you pine for DA vs BQ.

Cue up George Santayana.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby pup » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:28 pm

Total out of left field hypothetical question.

You are sitting there, getting ready to go on the clock. RG3 is there.

Phone rings. It is Jerry Jones.

Romo and #14 for #4 and #21.

You talking?
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:38 pm

pup wrote:Total out of left field hypothetical question.

You are sitting there, getting ready to go on the clock. RG3 is there.

Phone rings. It is Jerry Jones.

Romo and #14 for #4 and #21.

You talking?


Not me. I don't want a 32-yr old QB who's won one more playoff game than I have.

No thanks.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby noles1 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:40 pm

pup wrote:Total out of left field hypothetical question.

You are sitting there, getting ready to go on the clock. RG3 is there.

Phone rings. It is Jerry Jones.

Romo and #14 for #4 and #21.

You talking?



No, cause Romo at his age has probably a 3-4 year window and this team as currently constructed cannot fill that entire window in with a competitive team. (competing for a division & AFC crown)

You take Griffin, you draft at 23 and then back again at 36 or whatever and you hope you get 3 starters with one being your QB of the future. If you don't get Griffin at #4 then you better damn well make a play for a FA QB or do one helluva a job scouting those other guys in the draft.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby jerryroche » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:08 pm

pup wrote:Total out of left field hypothetical question.
You are sitting there, getting ready to go on the clock. RG3 is there.
Phone rings. It is Jerry Jones.
Romo and #14 for #4 and #21.
You talking?


I've been hearing (KNR of all places) and reading (Pluto) a lot about RG3 not having enough experience in the WCO to merit the Browns picking him. I would assume that the FO would have to make a commitment to overhauling the WCO to take full advantage of RG3's innate abilities if they were to draft him. I'm not sure that's possible, committed as they are to the WCO.

I don't know (nobody does) whether RG3 would take to the WCO like a duck to water. But that bit of doubt is enough to greatly reconsider what to do with the #4. Maybe the safest play is to take Blackmon or Claiborne? (And because of a stubborn, one-dimensional FO and head coach, miss on a player that could be the second coming of Jesus Montana? It's been done before.)
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:16 pm

noles1 wrote:
pup wrote:Total out of left field hypothetical question.

You are sitting there, getting ready to go on the clock. RG3 is there.

Phone rings. It is Jerry Jones.

Romo and #14 for #4 and #21.

You talking?



No, cause Romo at his age has probably a 3-4 year window and this team as currently constructed cannot fill that entire window in with a competitive team. (competing for a division & AFC crown)

You take Griffin, you draft at 23 and then back again at 36 or whatever and you hope you get 3 starters with one being your QB of the future. If you don't get Griffin at #4 then you better damn well make a play for a FA QB or do one helluva a job scouting those other guys in the draft.


Agreed, but not just b/c of Romo's age, more b/c Romo just doesn't have it. The guy has had some very talented offenses to work with, good enough defenses to pick him up. He just simply doesn't get it done when it counts the most. IOW he is already what many of us see the FA QBs (and possibly even Colt) as becoming...

Almost

Good

Enough.

LOL, so maybe it is age.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:33 pm

the nagging thought in my head, and the more I keep reading, and knowing more of what Heckert wants to do, that a trade down would not exactly be out of the question to acquire more for the defense he's trying to build up.

Am I sold this a good or bad way to go? Not yet. I mean, it's not as if he's done bad draft wise yet. Hell, every player that was drafted this year contributed in some way shape or form.

Just, I think that much like last year, if he doesn't see someone he absolutely LOVES (Green, Peterson, Dareus, Miller), he moves down, because why over reach for a guy you are "meh" on when you can continue to try to improve with a value pick.

I think his order will go something like this, in order of preferance:
1.) Luck
2.) Blackmon
3.) RG3

Everyone else he's probably "eh" on. I'm not sure he wants to burn a pick that high to draft another CB so that's more than likely out. And drafting a Runningback (Richardson) in the 1st round is dumb for a player that at the max can only provide you 5 good years. I don't see him drafting Kalil, and Coples seems like a reach at that spot.

I love RG3, but he just seems unfortunately, like a guy the Browns would not be too huge on. PRAY TO GOD THAT I'M WRONG, but I could see us trading out of that spot if he's there, and Heckert doesn't fully love the guy.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby jb » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:36 pm

pup wrote:Total out of left field hypothetical question.

You are sitting there, getting ready to go on the clock. RG3 is there.

Phone rings. It is Jerry Jones.

Romo and #14 for #4 and #21.

You talking?



To the operator after I hang up.


Now if I keep my 21? Meh, I never liked Romo one bit. Good enough to get you beat.
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby jb » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:37 pm

peeker643 wrote:
pup wrote:Total out of left field hypothetical question.

You are sitting there, getting ready to go on the clock. RG3 is there.

Phone rings. It is Jerry Jones.

Romo and #14 for #4 and #21.

You talking?


Not me. I don't want a 32-yr old QB who's won one more playoff game than I have.

No thanks.



Wow. When did you play in the playoffs?
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Re: RG all in

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:31 pm

Ziner wrote:Vince Young is much taller and not nearly as well spoken, bad comp.


SD:

That and he throws like a girl , and goes on PMS just like em .
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