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Cleveland Browns & The NFL

NFL Playoffs

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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:46 am

SoulDawg74 wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
Fire Marshall Bill wrote:Trade the second 1st round pick for Flynn...

How's that?



He's a free agent. He gets to hit the market or the Packers have to franchise him at ~$15million which thereby makes him untradeable. As does the 2 first rounders it would cost for you to sign him from underneath them.


SD:

Not exactly Peeks .

There is an exclusive and non exclusive tag , and while placing the tag on a RFA requires two #1 picks in compensation tagging a free agent under the guise of negotiating a contract gives the tem the option to take less .

We pulled off a trade for Corey Williams with a second round pick after he was tagged ,and the Chiefs only gave up a second for Cassel in a sweetheart deal with Pioli.

The Packers aren't gonna try and extort anybody which by all rights two number ones for a seventh rounder couldn't be construed as anything less. if that was indeed what they were seeking , , just parlay the expected interest in Flynn into a pick on his way out the door .

They'll want our Atlanta pick at 22 , but I'd counter with a second in 2013 and step it up from there.


Souldawg


What can be negotiated is one thing. The negotiation rights are not transferable though. Pack would have to sign him long term and then deal him. And to sign him will be expensive because he's guaranteed ridiculous money if they franchise him under either path.

To your point, I'm sure Pack could sign him for years and dollars ok'd by Browns and Flynn and then deal him to CLE but that's gonna cost a lot of cash and compensation.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:21 am

RE Pup: for 2012, yes.

RE Grady: they traded for Palmer after we injured Campbell.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:42 am

I hate to defend Campbell, b/c, well, he's just so uninteresting, but Oakland looked much better under him than Washed Up Palmer.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:51 pm

Oakland looked better under Campbell because the majority of his starts featured DMC and Bush in the backfield, wheras Palmer just had bush coming down the stretch.

Also: you're comparing poop to stinky poop.

Re Hoodoo: They traded for him knowing that Campbell would not be offered a long term contract, while they were willing to go into the future with a guy that has been on his couch for the better part of the year and hasnt had a productive season since 2007. Blech.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:04 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:Oakland looked better under Campbell because the majority of his starts featured DMC and Bush in the backfield, wheras Palmer just had bush coming down the stretch.

Also: you're comparing poop to stinky poop.

Re Hoodoo: They traded for him knowing that Campbell would not be offered a long term contract, while they were willing to go into the future with a guy that has been on his couch for the better part of the year and hasnt had a productive season since 2007. Blech.


I'd be more interested in potentially talking to Michael Bush than Jason Campbell. Low miles on Bush and he'd be that prototypical big back for this division and location (if not coach and system).
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:07 pm

Jason Cambell is a perfectly acceptable mediocre QB these days and is an option I far prefer to Flynn, who is going to be massively overpaid and come with insane expectations attached.

Fuck Flynn, aka AJ Feely/Koy Detmer/et al. If they give up a 1st rounder for Flynn they can burn in hell for eternity, BTW.

Doodoo is correct, a Cambell is nothing more than a seat warmer.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:09 pm

Bush >>> Hillis
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:20 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:Oakland looked better under Campbell because the majority of his starts featured DMC and Bush in the backfield, wheras Palmer just had bush coming down the stretch.

Also: you're comparing poop to stinky poop.

Re Hoodoo: They traded for him knowing that Campbell would not be offered a long term contract, while they were willing to go into the future with a guy that has been on his couch for the better part of the year and hasnt had a productive season since 2007. Blech.


SD:

I dunno , when I saw Campbell go down , I viewed it as tragic , because after years of wandering thru the wilderness and treated like the red headed step child by coaching staff after coaching staff .

Campbell had seemed to find his mojo when fortune soured on him once again , and he was struck down right at the time he was playing at his highest level and seemed to have the Raiders running on all cylinders.

The play seemed to be consistent with improvement he showed the end of the year prior, as the team and Campbell built on that momentum.

How that would reflect or translate with our system with Shurmur calling plays and Campbell having to acclimate to yet another new system is anybodies guess.

Rather spend that time with a more viable starter like Flynn , or take my lumps with a stud rookie like RG3 rather than waste resources on yet another bandaid.

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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:39 pm

Beauty of the soon-to-be-massively-overpaid Flynn is that you don't know where his ceiling is. He could be a productive qb (I have my doubts) and he's already got some NFL experience to hump his learning curve.

My argument isnt that Campbell isn't average, or available.....it's that he legitimately wouldn't be any better in this offense than the guys you have, so why bother. He wont DA it up out there, and he may be better than a Delhomme/Wallace/McCoy level of talent, but if you're going to suck, f*** it, just throw some kid out there that's going to represent at least a hope of flash in the pan. Draft a Tannehill, grab an unknown in the later rounds and let him duke it out with the incumbents, who gives a shit. Not this guy. I'm onboard with this forum.....either roll the dice and get someone with a LEGITIMATELY higher ceiling, or just trot the same bastards out there that already know the offense and save the time/effort/worry.

Bush would be a beast in this system. Half the teams in the league could use him as their feature back, and Oakland is lucky enough to have him AND someone better. Too bad they fired the only coach that seemed to know how to use them creatively and effectively.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby FUDU » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:16 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
FUDU wrote:HooDoo exactly how many CBs off that list have SB rings, if you don't mind?


Well, teams drafting in the first half of the first round have a funny way of Having Not Made the Playoffs the Previous Year, which in turn has a funny way of eliminating you from Super Bowl contention. Also, bad teams have a funny way of remaining bad. See: Buffalo, Miami, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Oakland, etc, etc...

I get all that, I just see you as trying to hard to equate a position like top flight CB as equal to QB in the quest for the championship. I'm in agreement that team balance is under rated in all this but as has been stated round here for weeks there is no more important position to go out of your way for than QB. Again you really kind of need them both, but QB gets you there quicker.

As to your list, my guess would have been 3 CBs with rings, probably one of them playing with Brady for sure, but no doubt all 3 of them having rings due to their QBs, not the other way around.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Triple-S » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:19 pm

Why didn't we hire harbaugh again?
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:00 pm

Triple-S wrote:Why didn't we hire harbaugh again?


Or Fisher. The man turns chicken shit into chicken salad.

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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:55 pm

A fucking QB sweep? Who calls that?

Nice. Big ups to Staley for haulin' ass down the field.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:05 pm

Insane game in San francisco

Wow!!!

How do you have 5 TOs and win?
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:06 pm

Graham is such a beast. Could the Saints have possibly scored too quick. Did they give Alex Smith too much time? To this point, Smith has been very good with just under 250 total yards and 3 TD's.


I still think the Saints will pull it out.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:11 pm

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:Graham is such a beast. Could the Saints have possibly scored too quick. Did they give Alex Smith too much time? To this point, Smith has been very good with just under 250 total yards and 3 TD's.


I still think the Saints will pull it out.



That might be the quickest I've ever been proven wrong. Alex Fucking Smith. Technically still time but... damn. Great fucking game.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:13 pm

I don't think the Niners will be going after Peyton Manning in the off season after all.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby bucknutz94 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:16 pm

One of the best 4th Quarters I've ever seen!
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby motherscratcher » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:20 pm

Maybe everything I think is wrong
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Triple-S » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:20 pm

All-Time classic

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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Doc » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:21 pm

That was an incredible game. Once Whitner knocked Pierre Thomas out cold, I thought there was no way NO could hang with them. To their credit, they were tough as nails as well. But, who would have thunk Alex Smith would look like an All-Pro? He made a number of passes right where they needed to be without making mistakes. And SF vs. GB would be an incredible game on a hopefully frozen tundra next weekend.

No chance that NE/Denver is half the game this game was. I'll be rooting for Tebow to do something to keep it close and interesting.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby bookelly » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:30 pm

That was an epic football game. I'd hate to be a Saint's fan. That musta hurt.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:30 pm

Ric-dic-ulos. Good on the niners, can they do it in 20 degree weather?

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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:36 pm

Doc wrote: But, who would have thunk Alex Smith would look like an All-Pro? He made a number of passes right where they needed to be without making mistakes.


Like you said, he was good all day and mistake free too, but those last two throws to Davis were as good as anyone in the world can throw it. On an effing line. On an effing dime.

I was waiting for a San Fran version of RR-88 but instead he cashed it in when they had to have six. They weren't winning in OT.

That was something else.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:39 pm

Apparently Christ had a late dinner reservation or is stuck in traffic. Because he's not with Tim Tebow right now.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:46 pm

motherscratcher wrote:Maybe everything I think is wrong


Wrong again. ;-) ;) :wink:

Defense and running game didn't do shit for the Niners in that game. They won because they went to an effective downfield passing game to respond to both Saints 4th Q TD's. The only way to beat a team like New Orleans is to outscore them (even if they give you 5 gifts). Alex Smith stepped up and played like his draft position.

Now let's see if the Packers or Giants feel as generous as the Saints next week. There's being a good guest, then there's spotting them 16 points.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby HoodooMan » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:49 pm

^Sigh.

Also, Tom Brady recently handed off to one of his tight ends. That Belichick is a real moron! HE AND HOLMGRENZ MUST HAVE THE SAME AGENT!11!!!!!
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:50 pm

peeker643 wrote:Apparently Christ had a late dinner reservation or is stuck in traffic. Because he's not with Tim Tebow right now.


If you take all the deities from all the religions combined, they probably still can't save Tebow today.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:55 pm

I know, those 472 yards and 32 points that the SF D gave up were all part of their master plan.

I wouldn't be shocked if the Browns D held the Saints to 472 and 32 if they came to Cleveland. But I'd be fucking floored if one of our QB's engineered those 2 drives.

You need great QB play to win in the playoffs. I have no idea if that was Alex Smith's Kelly Holcomb moment or what, but he won that game for the Niners. Not the D. Not the running game.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby HoodooMan » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:05 pm

Just sigh.

+MaybeweshouldsignDavidCarr!!!
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:08 pm

HoodooMan wrote:Just sigh.

+MaybeweshouldsignDavidCarr!!!


If he can get us to the playoffs and win a playoff game on his own merits, sure.

Because clearly it's almost impossible to win NFL playoff games without superior QB play. Generally, it's easier to get that from a superior QB, but I guess the draft-a-guy-and-wait-7-years-and-hope-he-finally-lives-up-to-his-draft-billing is a plan too.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:09 pm

HoodooMan wrote:^Sigh.

Also, Tom Brady recently handed off to one of his tight ends. That Belichick is a real moron! HE AND HOLMGRENZ MUST HAVE THE SAME AGENT!11!!!!!


Well, Belichik actually knew who was in the huddle and intended to get his TE the ball. Twice.

"Owen got dinged on the play before and had to come out; I don’t think Coach knew it," (TE Alex) Smith said...


While I appreciate your even handed approach to things, comparing those two situations is a fucking joke and is as ridiculous as the people who assume there is some semi-secret agent agenda in Berea.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:19 pm

Wow, that was an awesome commercial.

One of those superlative Tebow-watcher side effects, I'm sure.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:22 pm

Hikohadon wrote:Wow, that was an awesome commercial.

One of those superlative Tebow-watcher side effects, I'm sure.


It reminded me of your avatar.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:27 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Wow, that was an awesome commercial.

One of those superlative Tebow-watcher side effects, I'm sure.


It reminded me of your avatar.


I agree, it was creepy.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby jjgmyers » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:36 pm

Defense and running game didn't do shit for the Niners in that game. They won because they went to an effective downfield passing game to respond to both Saints 4th Q TD's. The only way to beat a team like New Orleans is to outscore them (even if they give you 5 gifts). Alex Smith stepped up and played like his draft position.



Yeah. Brees running for his life all night and SF D forcing 5 TO's had nothing to do with it.


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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby jjgmyers » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:38 pm

Maybe everything I think is wrong



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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:46 pm

Good night sweet Tebow.

The Browns need to draft a QB with their first pick every year until they find the guy. Clearly you can't win without one.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:47 pm

jjgmyers wrote:Defense and running game didn't do shit for the Niners in that game. They won because they went to an effective downfield passing game to respond to both Saints 4th Q TD's. The only way to beat a team like New Orleans is to outscore them (even if they give you 5 gifts). Alex Smith stepped up and played like his draft position.



Yeah. Brees running for his life all night and SF D forcing 5 TO's had nothing to do with it.


Alex Smith 1
Drew Brees 0


Correct. Brees was "running for his life all night" so badly he only passed for 472 and put up 32 points despite 5 turnovers, not all of which were "forced".

Try to turn this into a victory for old-tyme footballe if you will, but you'd be wronge.

Which, for you, would be shocking.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:52 pm

TEBOW'S ANTI ABORTION CULT GOT A COMMERCIAL UP....

WE MUST KILL HIM, OR IT WILL NEVER END

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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:58 pm

That commercial always makes my eyes wide with discomfort...

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Last edited by Hikohadon on Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:58 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:TEBOW'S ANTI ABORTION CULT GOT A COMMERCIAL UP....

WE MUST KILL HIM, OR IT WILL NEVER END

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw7qX1TpdNQ

^ THEY CAME BACK


I think I'd rather watch that commercial on a loop as opposed to this game or Tebow throwing the football.

And my God, either every single Denver receiver is covered completely on every initial route or Tebow is actually afraid of just 'regular NFL open' and needs 3-5 yards.

Brutal to watch. And against a horrific defense.

The Pittsburgh loss is even funnier now.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby jjgmyers » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:03 pm

jjgmyers wrote:
Defense and running game didn't do shit for the Niners in that game. They won because they went to an effective downfield passing game to respond to both Saints 4th Q TD's. The only way to beat a team like New Orleans is to outscore them (even if they give you 5 gifts). Alex Smith stepped up and played like his draft position.



Yeah. Brees running for his life all night and SF D forcing 5 TO's had nothing to do with it.


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Correct. Brees was "running for his life all night" so badly he only passed for 472 and put up 32 points despite 5 turnovers, not all of which were "forced".

Try to turn this into a victory for old-tyme footballe if you will, but you'd be wronge.

Which, for you, would be shocking.



Yeah. Whitner knocking Thomas out cold wasn't forced. Please explain to me what a forced TO is.

How many yards Brees have before the last 4 mins of the game?

Saints D played a hell of a game. Shocking the golden boy Brees couldn't overcome that.

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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Triple-S » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:14 pm

Jim Nantz and Phil Simms make my ears bleed.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:16 pm

Brady has 6TD passes.

Tebow has 3...... completions.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:19 pm

jjgmyers wrote:
jjgmyers wrote:
Defense and running game didn't do shit for the Niners in that game. They won because they went to an effective downfield passing game to respond to both Saints 4th Q TD's. The only way to beat a team like New Orleans is to outscore them (even if they give you 5 gifts). Alex Smith stepped up and played like his draft position.



Yeah. Brees running for his life all night and SF D forcing 5 TO's had nothing to do with it.


Alex Smith 1
Drew Brees 0


Correct. Brees was "running for his life all night" so badly he only passed for 472 and put up 32 points despite 5 turnovers, not all of which were "forced".

Try to turn this into a victory for old-tyme footballe if you will, but you'd be wronge.

Which, for you, would be shocking.



Yeah. Whitner knocking Thomas out cold wasn't forced. Please explain to me what a forced TO is.

How many yards Brees have before the last 4 mins of the game?

Saints D played a hell of a game. Shocking the golden boy Brees couldn't overcome that.

Stiff Alex Smith 1
All world can't be beat drew brees 0


Clearly you didn't watch the game, but I don't really expect you to know what you're talking about, so it matters not.

It takes 2 to turnover. The Defense has to make the play (clearly, SF was going for them), the Offense has to make the mistakes that allow it to happen.

In the end, that didn't matter since Brees and the Saints O came back to take the lead anyway. Alex Smith had to win it.

The Defense didn't win it. They were parting like a Kardashian's legs (you try to pull out "until the last 4 minutes" like they aren't part of the game? For shame). Give Brees 19 seconds instead of 9 and I'd have thought they had a chance.

The SF running game didn't do dick all day. One 42 yard run. And a whole buncha nothin'.

Alex Smith won it with his late passing. He didn't "manage" the team to a win. he made some damn key passes down the stretch. Which is again further evidence that stellar QB play is key to victory.

I don't give a shit about Brees any more than I give about Alex Smith. I give a shit about getting a QB in here that can win a playoff game on his own merits, not pretend like a "game manager" is good enough.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:27 pm

Really, these Playoffs couldn't be going any better.

Tebow knocks off the Steelers, then the resulting Tebow-mania is CRUSHED by reality.

Now if only the Texans can bump off the Ravens tomorrow...
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby jjgmyers » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:34 pm

Clearly you didn't watch the game, but I don't really expect you to know what you're talking about, so it matters not.



Translation: everything I've been preaching about has completely went down the tubes. Now I'll try to insult you like you don't know what you're talking about.

You never answered my question about what a forced TO is.

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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby trsteve1 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:34 pm

Remember when Flynn was awesome in College? NO? oh, you mean he was average to above-average with gobs of talent around him.. oh, I see.. and say what? The Packers have gobs of talent oozing all over on offense, I see.. and the so, if Flynn came to Cleveland he would be surround with... *crickets*

Sorry, it just doesn't add up. Flynn is a nice back up in Green Bay, and it will be nice for him if he can cash in, but I don't have high hopes.. Remember how good Cassell looked for the Pats, how's that going in KC?

On another note, so glad that the Patriots are crushing the Broncos/Tebows.. I hate both teams pretty evenly (maybe the Patriots a little more, because my wife hates them vehemently).. but, I'm just glad that we can finally admit that..

God doesn't give a rats left nut about football, he doesn't make Tebow win, he can't even make him complete half of his passes!.. it's a sport, pure and simple, keep god out of it!

And now we can, thankfully.
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Re: NFL Playoffs

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:41 pm

trsteve1 wrote:God doesn't give a rats left nut about football, he doesn't make Tebow win, he can't even make him complete half of his passes!.. it's a sport, pure and simple, keep god out of it!

And now we can, thankfully.


True. It was never mentioned before Tebow and it'll die with his playoff death.

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It'll be nice to get away from some dude genuflecting and back to the more common throat slashing gestures and dances that would make strippers cringe.

;-) ;) :wink:
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