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2012 Draft

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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:22 pm

Shit just got real with the 2012 draft. If Indy wins out, and they lose the #1 overall, could change a lot of projections. Irsay saying that Peyton WILL start if healthy (which he appears to be proving) will also change some directions, potentially. (Although he later says that they will likely draft Manning's successor in this draft)

Next week is bound to be very interesting, if nothing else. Glad to see some positive spin drama in the last 2 weeks.

As far as Bradford goes, is there ANY 1st round picked quarterback on ANY other team that is currently playing like crap and has a better potential to recover from it? Bradford was THE Andrew Luck of last years draft (disclaimer: no one has been touted remotely as much as Luck since Peyton) and he's only going into his third year.

Every scout in the combine was jerking it to this kid; makes every throw, into tight windows, etc etc.

If it only took the later first round pick to do it, AND (only if) RG3 and Luck were already taken, i'd be all for Bradford as a plan C. And if he sucks? You're right back on pace to grab that QB you need in the first round next year. (With a Justin Blackmon/Kalil type in the fold already) Much rather have a QB with that kind of upside than a Matt Flynn.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby jta1975 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:37 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
jta1975 wrote:Hypothetical....if Rams get the 1st pick and fall in love with Luck would you take a trade with them where they asked for a 2013 first round pick and a 3rd this year for Bradford?

If not, what is the counter if any?


Interesting.

I think a lot of people around here have fallen off the Bradford bandwagon, but he played really well last year (under Shurmur, no less). He knows the system. He does have a lot of talent and much higher ceiling than what we've got.

And we've got to remember that the coach loves the guy and Holmgren was (reportedly) willing to give up the whole draft to get him. For a 2013 #1 and this year's 3rd? I think you'd have to seriously consider it.

My reservations with him: He seems a bit fragile, and doesn't exude that "leadership" quality.


No, he doesn't. To me he seems to have some of Colt's 'deer in the headlights' countenance and that concerns me. But I don't know (again) if that's a product of his environment, Shurmur/McDaniels/system changes or if it's him. And he's another guy that, aside from S Jackson, has very limited number of weapons.



Bradford looked like a totally different player last year. I gained a tremendous respect for what he did his rookie year with limited weapons. When I watched the 2010 season I saw a QB who got is right away. I honestly don't know what happened this year. Didn't look like the same guy at all.

I would be torn if I got offered him in a trade but I bet Shurmur would be pumped.

Rams also have to look at the jack...Bradford signed a 50 million guaranteed contract that can escalate to 86 million.

Cam Newton signed a 4 year 25 million dollar contract with all 25 guaranteed...Luck's contract should be similar...that is a lot of money they would save.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:43 pm

Bradford is not getting traded, anywhere. NFL Cap Rules 101 morons.

You trade a player in the NFL you eat their entire signing bonus on your cap in one hit. With that contract, no way anyone eats that kind of a hit.

Learn the damned CBA of the league you worship.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:02 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Bradford is not getting traded, anywhere. NFL Cap Rules 101 morons.

You trade a player in the NFL you eat their entire signing bonus on your cap in one hit. With that contract, no way anyone eats that kind of a hit.

Learn the damned CBA of the league you worship.


No need when you're here to so subtly tell us.

Also, if Rams want rid of Bradford they're starting over. May be a bitter pill to swallow but if they want out, they'll get out. If they don't think he's their guy they're gonna wait til when? At what price? Setting them how much further back? For how long?
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby jta1975 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:05 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Bradford is not getting traded, anywhere. NFL Cap Rules 101 morons.

You trade a player in the NFL you eat their entire signing bonus on your cap in one hit. With that contract, no way anyone eats that kind of a hit.

Learn the damned CBA of the league you worship.



http://www.spotrac.com/blog/?p=481

In theory you would be right but read the contract terms....2.88 over 6 is the hit... the Rams took the hit in 2011 by giving him a second year bonus
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:11 pm

jta1975 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Bradford is not getting traded, anywhere. NFL Cap Rules 101 morons.

You trade a player in the NFL you eat their entire signing bonus on your cap in one hit. With that contract, no way anyone eats that kind of a hit.

Learn the damned CBA of the league you worship.



http://www.spotrac.com/blog/?p=481

In theory you would be right but read the contract terms....2.88 over 6 is the hit... the Rams took the hit in 2011 by giving him a second year bonus


Ahh... the old 2nd year signing bonus and a huge $22m hit to the Rams cap this season. Looks like about half that $50m has already been accounted for. Also looks like e0y2e3 shoulda followed his own advice and known whereof he spoke before cranking out the condescending cock-spew ;-) ;) :wink: :nanner:
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:14 pm

My take on the rules was dead on.

Shady tactics to get over the salary cap floor is something that was unexpected.

Kinda makes you wonder what all of these Browns extensions look like.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:10 am

e0y2e3 wrote:My take on the rules was dead on.

Shady tactics to get over the salary cap floor is something that was unexpected.

Kinda makes you wonder what all of these Browns extensions look like.


Your take on the rules was fine.

Your take on the rules as they affect the Bradford situation was shite.

And I disagree that shady tactics to massage the cap should be unexpected. You're too old and been around too long. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby swerb » Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:05 am

For the record, if feasible, I would deal #4 to the Rams for Bradford in a heartbeat.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby andrew6586 » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:59 am

jta1975 wrote:Hypothetical....if Rams get the 1st pick and fall in love with Luck would you take a trade with them where they asked for a 2013 first round pick and a 3rd this year for Bradford?

If not, what is the counter if any?

Bradford still has loads of potential and has less offensive line help than we do. The problem is that his contract is still huge. That $50m guaranteed has about $20m left to be paid. Too pricey for me.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:50 am

swerb wrote:For the record, if feasible, I would deal #4 to the Rams for Bradford in a heartbeat.


??????????????

Why? So he and Shurmur can repeat their 2010 Colt-like offensive blitzkreig?

With Shurmur, Sam Bradford is a taller version of Colt McCoy. Whithout him, who knows.

Shurmur+Bradford=feh
Shurmur+McCoy=feh
Shurmur+Marino=feh
Shurmur+Montana=feh
Shurmur+X=K, where X is any QB on the face of the earcth, and where K is a mediocre QB
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby Cleveland Matt » Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:00 am

this team is not a QB away from being in the playoffs plain and simple. The Browns are many many players away from even being considered a playoff contender.

I used to think that Rodgers, BRady and Brees would take this team right now to the playoffs. I was dead wrong not with this coach and the lack of talent on this team.

Please everyone stop with the QB talk if we draft a QB Shurmur is just going to ruin his career before it gets started. We will all have to put up with another wasted year next season with this joke of a coach. pat Shurmur is not going to get better with time or a full off season. He has no killer instinct no heart or emotions. He wants to keep the games close and then makes all the wrong decisions to lose those close games. He has not shown a damn thing in his 12 years as an assist coach or OC coach that would lead anyone to believe he should have been or should be a head coach in the NFL.

I just pray that if Griffin is there when the Browns pick they don't pass on him to draft someone else at that same spot. That player they draft over Griffin will never make it on this team because of the fans. Because too many people think this kid is the savior when he is the next Akili Smith. We should trade down again and get as many picks as we can to fill all the holes on this team with quality young players.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:04 pm

swerb wrote:For the record, if feasible, I would deal #4 to the Rams for Bradford in a heartbeat.


SD:

Not if we could get RG3 with both our number ones, with a deal with Indy or St Louis at 2nd..

For the record the Colts lose at Jagoffville , that win at Indy was calculated show , they still hold all tie breakers.





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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby Cleveland Matt » Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:54 pm

The Browns Official have the #4 pick. The Redskins have the #6 we need to trade down and to that pick and get another 2nd round pick or another #1 next year for the Redskins who will probably not be much better.

Please don't draft Griffin
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby Triple-S » Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:57 pm

I'm with SD

RGIII or bust.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:25 pm

Triple-S wrote:I'm with SD

RGIII or bust.



They've got the ammo; just need to pull the trigger. Get it done Heckert.
Fuck the Browns...
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby googleeph2 » Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:49 pm

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:
Triple-S wrote:I'm with SD

RGIII or bust.



They've got the ammo; just need to pull the trigger. Get it done Heckert.


I'm in too
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby LakeErieWarriors » Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:19 pm

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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby pup » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:32 pm

After Skins move up to 3 and take RGIII

#4 - Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU
#24 - Zach Brown, OLB, UNC
#37 - Mike Adams, T, tOSU
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby jjgmyers » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:59 pm

Blackmon
Kendall Wright
Best OT left

Adams won't be there at #37

Gotta go offensive playmakers with both 1st's

Blackmon, Wright, Little would be a outstanding trio in my opinion.

Draft DB's, DL & LB's with all reaming picks. Hope 1 or 2 pan out.

Sign a few free agents on D and we don't look to effing bad.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:11 pm

jjgmyers wrote:Blackmon
Kendall Wright
Best OT left

Adams won't be there at #37

Gotta go offensive playmakers with both 1st's

Blackmon, Wright, Little would be a outstanding trio in my opinion.

Draft DB's, DL & LB's with all reaming picks. Hope 1 or 2 pan out.

Sign a few free agents on D and we don't look to effing bad.


It all sounds pretty good, just that we yet again don't have our franchise QB, and are essentially stuck in neutral until we address that spot. It might be a more 7-9, 8-8 type of neutral, but it be neutral nonetheless.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:16 pm

Well, it'll be interested to get receivers here in the draft than to coax them here with the thought of Seneca Wallace throwing them 4-yard outs.

Course, if you pay Over pay 'em enough they'll come regardless.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:20 pm

peeker643 wrote:Well, it'll be interested to get receivers here in the draft than to coax them here with the thought of Seneca Wallace throwing them 4-yard outs.

Course, if you pay Over pay 'em enough they'll come regardless.


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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby jb » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:21 pm

Late to the luau.

What is the goal?

To be good now?

To take the surest path?

Or to max for upside at being better later even if it take a little while longer?

Even if there is some risk?

Do you want playoff contention in 2013 or can you wait another year or two more of 6 wins for a run with maybe more talent in 2015?

Give me your answers and I'll hive you the plan. ;-)

Because I can see legitimacy in 2 different paths instead of a black & white type deal.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:23 pm

pup wrote:After Skins move up to 3 and take RGIII

#4 - Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU
#24 - Zach Brown, OLB, UNC
#37 - Mike Adams, T, tOSU


I don't know if that's supposed to make everyone sad, but I'd be very happy with that draft.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby noles1 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:28 pm

I want to be in playoff contention by 2013 (meaning 8 wins or more).

I want to have a QB that carries the next decade then.

Basically I want what Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati seemingly have. (note what they all did in drafting at that position)

I can deal with 6 wins next year if I have players I can feel comfortable building upon. And what is the premier position that speaks to...

Probably teed it up and hit it for you with my explanation but that's just where I am at this point.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby Triple-S » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:34 pm

-A consistent winning team, where there's no "Rebuild".
-Being able to go into games with Pitt and Baltimore with a shot at beating them.
-I want this city (I define this "city", as Cleveland/Akron/Canton/parts of Y-Town/Erie/Columbus) so much in the grip of the Browns that you won't see a piss colored towel till you're 30 minutes into PA.
-A franchise QB and players that the rest of the league looks up to.
-A Super Bowl Appearance
-A Super Bowl win.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:48 pm

First, I want to get a SB winning caliber QB in place. That is essential no matter what.

After that, I expect playoffs and SB runs.

I don't put years on it, I just want to see that progress, and I think that any progress we see without the QB in place is pyrite.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby jb » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:48 pm

noles1 wrote:I want to be in playoff contention by 2013 (meaning 8 wins or more).

I want to have a QB that carries the next decade then.

Basically I want what Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati seemingly have. (note what they all did in drafting at that position)

I can deal with 6 wins next year if I have players I can feel comfortable building upon. And what is the premier position that speaks to...

Probably teed it up and hit it for you with my explanation but that's just where I am at this point.



Kinda where I am.

I don't think a rookie QB surrounded by this mess does that for you. I really don't. Certainly not if you have to deal picks to ensure you get Luck or RG3. And then with this bunch and the learning curve you are looking at being 3 - 4 years out.

The only way that does is getting Flynn, breaking the bank on UFA, and maximizing your draft picks by letting the draft come to you. Your mileage may varry, as Buff used to say, but that's my take.

I also think that if you look at the top 3 things wrong with the O, "an absence of rookie playmakers" isn't in the top 3 issues. To me, it was shitty QB play, shitty OL play, and shitty execution across the board. Lastly, I think the D is much closer to the O to being complete. You want impact fast, you head in that direction.

So if you want to win fast, here's what I'd do.

You target 4 FA positions and you overpay like hell.

You sign Matt Flynn. Hatas can hate but he's shown that on some level in some circumstance he can play on Sunday. Period. He knows what this O is supposed to be doing. I suspect his ceiling isn't that of RG3 but RG3 ain't ever taken a snap with an on field read neither. He WILL have a learning curve even as he makes the top plays of the week on occasion and no one is a sure thing.

You sign a RB like a Ben Tate. It's 2012. RB's are all JAGs on winning teams compared to the QB. Foster may be an except but Shaub rocks too.

You sign a RG

You sign a vet WR who knows this offense to pair with Little and Norwood is your slot. Last thing we need is another kid WR who doesn't know shyte about this offense and does OJT.

Get a scrap heap FB on the cheap

You stand pat and take Mo C. You pair him with Haden and move Brown to FS. Now you have Ward able to creep up and roam, you can play man press in single with your CBs - a huge strategic advantage- and you have good DB depth. Your pass D gets better and Ward helps the run D by being able to cheat and blitz.

You ignore the naysayers and bring in Burfict with the 2nd 1st rounder and play him as WSOLB for starters, moving Gocong to SSOLB and re-upping NyQuil. Just turn the boi loose on blitzes and tell him see ball / hit ball. He changes the whole psychology of your team and you are no longer the division pussies (and you get past the 15 are penalties best you can)

This draft is retarded deep in OT's. You take BA OT with pick two.

Jared Crick is a high motor 5 tech DE who would fit this WS DE hand in glove. You trade back up into round two with all those worthless 3, 4,and 5th rounders instead of wasting them on soft white boys. F the rest of the draft. Crick should be there early - mid 2 s of now. He's the next Aaron Kampman.

Your O looks like this:

JT
Pink or Steinbach
Mack
UFA vet RG
2nd round OT

Flynn

UFA RB

Little
Vet UFA WR
Norwood

Your D :

Crick
PT
Big Ty
Sheard

Taze
NyQuil
Gocong

Mo C
Ward
Shelly
Haden


You tell me this bunch would suck and I'll tell you you wrong. It is doable in one season
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:56 pm

Burfict's someone I could see lasting until the 4th round, never to be heard from again...or taken in the first and being the next Ray Lewis.

I couldn't help being excited if we got him, but he's the kind of prospect that, if you take him and he busts, you look back and think to yourself, "You knew that was going to happen, dumbass."

In general, though, I'm very much in favor of:

-Offense in FA

-Franchise QB if he's there, no trade ups, no forcing anything

-Otherwise, defense early & often in the draft. Finish that, be good at something, for F's sake.

-Claiborne + Brown/Burfict + Mercilus/Jenkins would be awesome. Though I would personally have a very difficult time passing on Blackmon for Claiborne. (Honey Badger in '13!!!)
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:57 pm

Clarett would make a terrible corner.

Awful take JB.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby jb » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:58 pm

HoodooMan wrote:Burfict's someone I could see lasting until the 4th round, never to be heard from again...or taken in the first and being the next Ray Lewis.

I couldn't help being excited if we got him, but he's the kind of prospect that, if you take him and he busts, you look back and think to yourself, "You knew that was going to happen, dumbass."


I agree 100% . And yet I feel where this club is we need break and we need a wild man. We are complete candy asses. Luke freakin' Kuechluzny ain't coin it for me. We need psychotic to get over the hump vs the Real Browns and the Inbred.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby jb » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:59 pm

JCoz wrote:Clarett would make a terrible corner.

Awful take JB.



I think he learned a lot. Seems like it from his tweets.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:00 pm

HoodooMan wrote:Burfict's someone I could see lasting until the 4th round, never to be heard from again...or taken in the first and being the next Ray Lewis.

I couldn't help being excited if we got him, but he's the kind of prospect that, if you take him and he busts, you look back and think to yourself, "You knew that was going to happen, dumbass."

In general, though, I'm very much in favor of:

-Offense in FA

-Franchise QB if he's there, no trade ups, no forcing anything

-Otherwise, defense early & often in the draft. Finish that, be good at something, for F's sake.

-Claiborne + Brown/Burfict + Mercilus/Jenkins would be awesome. Though I would personally have a very difficult time passing on Blackmon for Claiborne. (Honey Badger in '13!!!)


I don't think Burflict will bust, I think he'll get bustED.

FTR that wouldn't neccessarily stop me from drafting him. Just that when he goes to jail for decapatating his girlfriend with a right hook you can't say you didn't see that one coming.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:05 pm

Am I wrong, or is his practice punch the closest he's been yet to an off-field incident?

He's insane, but IIRC, supposedly kind of quiet off the field.

As difficult as it is to imagine, that:

Image

...doesn't punch his grandmother every Thanksgiving, so far, no evidence!
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby jb » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:05 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
-Franchise QB if he's there, no trade ups, no forcing anything




What is a franchise QB anyway?

Don't get me wrong. I don't believe in the cog theory or the JAG theory. I think an elite QB needs to generally come from good stock. But F man. I dunno that it is raw-raw anymore. the best offense are like these living, breathing organisms where everything is on the same page, led by a QB. Its's like watching Carl Lewis run in prime. You don't say, "man, look at his rich leg! Dayum!" You're just in awe of the whole dang 9 yards, you know?

I think Brees is a franchise QB.

This year got me closer to thinking Shaub is.

Rogers from mid-low 1st round? Hell yeah.

Matty Ice? Not so much.

In fact, I think your taxonomy of QB's I lurked a week or two back nailed it.

I don't know if Flynn is the answer short term or long term. I don't. I do know I've seen kid in 3 RS games and NFW is this Kevin Kolb like the hat as hate.

Don't get me wrong. I would be so psyched if we got RG3. I'd hug Pup on draft day. But I wouldn't expect a goodTEAM for a while or for the W's to roll in until 3 years or so later, esp if we need to trade up.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:11 pm

jb wrote:What is a franchise QB anyway?


I get everything you're saying, but is it cheating to simply answer: "A young QB you don't expect to consider replacing for a long time"?

RG3 is a young QB I'd hope I wouldn't have to consider replacing for a long time. And if he shows flashes of greatness early, if I'm one of the AYCHs, I'm confident I've bought some bonus patience from the fanbase & Randy to survive the growing pains.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:12 pm

jb wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:
-Franchise QB if he's there, no trade ups, no forcing anything




What is a franchise QB anyway?

Don't get me wrong. I don't believe in the cog theory or the JAG theory. I think an elite QB needs to generally come from good stock. But F man. I dunno that it is raw-raw anymore. the best offense are like these living, breathing organisms where everything is on the same page, led by a QB. Its's like watching Carl Lewis run in prime. You don't say, "man, look at his rich leg! Dayum!" You're just in awe of the whole dang 9 yards, you know?

I think Brees is a franchise QB.

This year got me closer to thinking Shaub is.

Rogers from mid-low 1st round? Hell yeah.

Matty Ice? Not so much.

In fact, I think your taxonomy of QB's I lurked a week or two back nailed it.

I don't know if Flynn is the answer short term or long term. I don't. I do know I've seen kid in 3 RS games and NFW is this Kevin Kolb like the hat as hate.

Don't get me wrong. I would be so psyched if we got RG3. I'd hug Pup on draft day. But I wouldn't expect a goodTEAM for a while or for the W's to roll in until 3 years or so later, esp if we need to trade up.


A franchise QB is a QB that can lead you to a Super Bowl victory in today's league.

He might not do it, but you have to look at him and feel he CAN do it.

If you look at your QB and think "Well... if we surround him with enough pieces and everything falls our way, maybe he can make it to a conference championship game..." then he is not a franchise QB.

Luck and RG3 are probably not the only franchise QB's in this draft, but hell if I know who the other ones are right now.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby jb » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:12 pm

JCoz wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:Burfict's someone I could see lasting until the 4th round, never to be heard from again...or taken in the first and being the next Ray Lewis.

I couldn't help being excited if we got him, but he's the kind of prospect that, if you take him and he busts, you look back and think to yourself, "You knew that was going to happen, dumbass."

In general, though, I'm very much in favor of:

-Offense in FA

-Franchise QB if he's there, no trade ups, no forcing anything

-Otherwise, defense early & often in the draft. Finish that, be good at something, for F's sake.

-Claiborne + Brown/Burfict + Mercilus/Jenkins would be awesome. Though I would personally have a very difficult time passing on Blackmon for Claiborne. (Honey Badger in '13!!!)


I don't think Burflict will bust, I think he'll get bustED.

FTR that wouldn't neccessarily stop me from drafting him. Just that when he goes to jail for decapatating his girlfriend with a right hook you can't say you didn't see that one coming.



It is possible. But as Hoo Doo writes, all that is documented is the locker room incident and that he got into it during a pick up BB game. Google "Burfict off field incidents" and see what you see. Nothing in legal regard to drugs, gins, or anything that is commonplace in Florida. Look, this kid is a live wire, a straight out of So Central single Mom kid who is everything stereotypical from misunderstood pulled up by his bootstraps via athletics to kick your ass used on a look.

It's exactly why I want him.

You don't beat Ray Ray and Harrison with Scott Gocong. You can keep straight outta Cincy St X and I'll take straight outta Compton.

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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:14 pm

I'd draft him.

Would just really suck to have him go all McClain on you. Can't whine to god about hating Ctown if he does.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby jb » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:14 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
A franchise QB is a QB that can lead you to a Super Bowl victory in today's league.

He might not do it, but you have to look at him and feel he CAN do it.



Concur.

I feel like there are about a half dozen. They aren't all or mostly top 5 picks.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby jb » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:15 pm

JCoz wrote:I'd draft him.

Would just really suck to have him go all McClain on you. Can't whine to god about hating Ctown if he does.



Yup.

Like Hood Doo says, no middle ground for that kid.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:15 pm

I dig the plan JB. I'm just not sure anything can save Sheldon Brown from staggering around the field losing guys he's responsible for. A different part of the field just means him losing them in a different part of the field.

I think he's Toast. Literally and in an Elvis Patterson sense. And U Young is an older version of Ward so you can't even slide him next to the younger, undisciplined, physical safety because that just gives you two of those guys.

they need that Felix Wright-type ball hawking guy back there with Ward and I fear Brown's ball hawking days are long gone.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby jb » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:17 pm

HoodooMan wrote:
jb wrote:What is a franchise QB anyway?


I get everything you're saying, but is it cheating to simply answer: "A young QB you don't expect to consider replacing for a long time"?

RG3 is a young QB I'd hope I wouldn't have to consider replacing for a long time. And if he shows flashes of greatness early, if I'm one of the AYCHs, I'm confident I've bought some bonus patience from the fanbase & Randy to survive the growing pains.



I'm Janus, brah.

I'd love RG3.

I just see a different path to contention if he's the guy. Longer, but maybe better. See what I'm saying'?
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby jb » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:18 pm

peeker643 wrote:I dig the plan JB. I'm just not sure anything can save Sheldon Brown from staggering around the field losing guys he's responsible for. A different part of the field just means him losing them in a different part of the field.

I think he's Toast. Literally and in an Elvis Patterson sense. And U Young is an older version of Ward so you can't even slide him next to the younger, undisciplined, physical safety because that just gives you two of those guys.

they need that Felix Wright-type ball hawking guy back there with Ward and I fear Brown's ball hawking days are long gone.



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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:19 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
A franchise QB is a QB that can lead you to a Super Bowl victory in today's league.

He might not do it, but you have to look at him and feel he CAN do it.



Concur.

I feel like there are about a half dozen. They aren't all or mostly top 5 picks.


True.

But the odds of a guy that is so highly regarded and talented that teams pick him in the Top 5 panning out to be "franchise" is much higher than the alternative.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:19 pm

jb wrote:
HoodooMan wrote:
jb wrote:What is a franchise QB anyway?


I get everything you're saying, but is it cheating to simply answer: "A young QB you don't expect to consider replacing for a long time"?

RG3 is a young QB I'd hope I wouldn't have to consider replacing for a long time. And if he shows flashes of greatness early, if I'm one of the AYCHs, I'm confident I've bought some bonus patience from the fanbase & Randy to survive the growing pains.



I'm Janus, brah.

I'd love RG3.

I just see a different path to contention if he's the guy. Longer, but maybe better. See what I'm saying'?


And everything I heard Walrus say pointed to that longer, slower, "truer" build.

Except wanting the young QB. But again, that could be gamesmanship and not showing cards.

So, then what with the plan?
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby Hikohadon » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:21 pm

Like I said before, slow, fast, I don't care how they build it so long as I feel it's getting built.

I did not get that sense from the 2011 season.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby HoodooMan » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:25 pm

peeker643 wrote:I dig the plan JB. I'm just not sure anything can save Sheldon Brown from staggering around the field losing guys he's responsible for. A different part of the field just means him losing them in a different part of the field.


I'd really love to upgrade Brown, because I think two really outstanding corners can do a lot for you (see: recent Jets' defenses), but for a team that ranked 23rd in sacks, if Brown was as bad as he's made out to be, he'd have been Boldin/Wright burnt on a regular basis this season, and I didn't see that. (Disclaimer: they were depressing, and I may have only been half-watching for most of the 2nd half of the year.)

I don't know if he's a FS, but I at least wouldn't mind him as a 3rd corner.
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Re: 2012 Draft

Unread postby JCoz » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:27 pm

jb wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
A franchise QB is a QB that can lead you to a Super Bowl victory in today's league.

He might not do it, but you have to look at him and feel he CAN do it.



Concur.

I feel like there are about a half dozen. They aren't all or mostly top 5 picks.


The odds are pretty high you are getting a franchise guy taking the #1 QB prospect.

Orders of magnitude lower for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc.
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