Cleveland Browns & The NFL

by **jerryroche** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:59 pm

What's this world coming to? I actually agree with e0—unless I"m misreading his opinion, which is virtually impossible to do.

This team cannot AFFORD to trade three high draft picks for the #1 or #2 overall. Too many holes to fill.

If one of the blue-chip QBs is available at #4 or #5 or wherever the Browns draft, go for it. But no trading away multiple high picks. For this raggedy-ass team, the price is just too high.

Playmakers, playmakers, playmakers. That's plural, not singular.

by **motherscratcher** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:31 pm

Actually, I think you are misreading his opinion. What e0y is saying is that the Browns can't trade back yet again to acquire more picks. He's saying that we will have a tip 5 pick and we need to draft atop 5 elite talent, QB or not.

Me, I'm torn. I'd prefer they don't trade it, but if RG3 isn't there a trade wouldn't kill me.

That being said, it's still December and draft opinions and boards are just starting to take shape. I reserve the right to melt the fuck down if they trade that pick.

I'm not sure what e0y's opinion on possibly trading up would be.

by **Govbarney** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:32 pm

jerryroche wrote:What's this world coming to? I actually agree with e0—unless I"m misreading his opinion, which is virtually impossible to do.

This team cannot AFFORD to trade three high draft picks for the #1 or #2 overall. Too many holes to fill.

If one of the blue-chip QBs is available at #4 or #5 or wherever the Browns draft, go for it. But no trading away multiple high picks. For this raggedy-ass team, the price is just too high.

Playmakers, playmakers, playmakers. That's plural, not singular.

Assuming Luck is as good as advertised ( & I am only talking about Luck ) he is worth multiple 1rd picks. Franchise QBs have a way of making mediocre guys into "playmakers".

On top of that Luck would help with image of this team when it concerns free agents, good WRs are going to WANT to play for the Browns if they know they will have a compitant QB chucking it to them.

by **peeker643** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:37 pm

Personally torn on this debate. Not because I disagree with any particular pov but because this team is so shitty in about 40 roster spots.

I agree you need the elite, difference-making players and you can't compete at the highest level w/o them.

But if I could theoretically upgrade 4 or 5 positions immediately with legit, NFL-caliber players at different spots, that'd be awful tempting. ONLY if the guy you consider to be that franchise-type QB is already gone.

If that guy is there in the normal flow of the draft, w/o having to deal picks away to get him, then I take that guy w/o hesitation.

by **Fire Marshall Bill** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:41 pm

peeker643 wrote:Personally torn on this debate. Not because I disagree with any particular pov but because this team is so shitty in about 40 roster spots.

I agree you need the elite, difference-making players and you can't compete at the highest level w/o them.

But if I could theoretically upgrade 4 or 5 positions immediately with legit, NFL-caliber players at different spots, that'd be awful tempting. ONLY if the guy you consider to be that franchise-type QB is already gone.

If that guy is there in the normal flow of the draft, w/o having to deal picks away to get him, then I take that guy w/o hesitation.

Per Monday Night Football

The 9's have something like 23 players picked in the top 11 of the 1st round

Where in that plethora of draft picks was Alex Smith taken?

How far away are the Browns from having 20 1st round draft picks on the roster?

Just some thoughts.......

by **jerryroche** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:45 pm

When I found myself agreeing with what e0 had written, I must've known something was amiss.

Another factor contributing to not trading multiple picks to move up: This team is woefully lacking in depth. Get a young OT and Pashos becomes a capable back-up. Get a burner at WR and Massaquoi becomes a competent back-up. Get a monster at OLB and Fujita or Gocong are competent back-ups.

by **peeker643** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:55 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Personally torn on this debate. Not because I disagree with any particular pov but because this team is so shitty in about 40 roster spots.

I agree you need the elite, difference-making players and you can't compete at the highest level w/o them.

But if I could theoretically upgrade 4 or 5 positions immediately with legit, NFL-caliber players at different spots, that'd be awful tempting. ONLY if the guy you consider to be that franchise-type QB is already gone.

If that guy is there in the normal flow of the draft, w/o having to deal picks away to get him, then I take that guy w/o hesitation.

Per Monday Night Football

The 9's have something like 23 players picked in the top 11 of the 1st round

Where in that plethora of draft picks was Alex Smith taken?

How far away are the Browns from having 20 1st round draft picks on the roster?

Just some thoughts.......

Smith was the first pick in the 2005 draft. Aaron Rodgers was the 24th.

They took Vernon Davis and Manny Lawson in the 1st round in '06.

Patrick Willis and Joe Staley in '07.

'08 was horrific for them

'09 Crabtree

'10 Anthony Davis and Mike Iupati

'11 Aldon Smith

So while they may have 20+ former 1st rounders, they may well be someone else's pick ( like former 9TH!!! overall pick Ted Ginn Jr.). Their own picks? Hit and miss.

by **mattvan1** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:59 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Fire Marshall Bill wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Personally torn on this debate. Not because I disagree with any particular pov but because this team is so shitty in about 40 roster spots.

I agree you need the elite, difference-making players and you can't compete at the highest level w/o them.

But if I could theoretically upgrade 4 or 5 positions immediately with legit, NFL-caliber players at different spots, that'd be awful tempting. ONLY if the guy you consider to be that franchise-type QB is already gone.

If that guy is there in the normal flow of the draft, w/o having to deal picks away to get him, then I take that guy w/o hesitation.

Per Monday Night Football

The 9's have something like 23 players picked in the top 11 of the 1st round

Where in that plethora of draft picks was Alex Smith taken?

How far away are the Browns from having 20 1st round draft picks on the roster?

Just some thoughts.......

Smith was the first pick in the 2005 draft. Aaron Rodgers was the 24th.

They took Vernon Davis and Manny Lawson in the 1st round in '06.

Patrick Willis and Joe Staley in '07.

'08 was horrific for them

'09 Crabtree

'10 Anthony Davis and Mike Iupati

'11 Aldon Smith

So while they may have 20+ former 1st rounders, they may well be someone else's pick ( like former 9TH!!! overall pick Ted Ginn Jr.). Their own picks? Hit and miss.

And they were still a joke until they also found a coach who could, well, uh, actually coach.

by **pup** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:59 pm

They got Bray!

by **Fire Marshall Bill** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:14 am

No matter where they came from, its an indication of how far away the Browns are fromm a foundation, let alone becoming a play-off team

I wonder what the Browns roster looks like as per draft pick

by **peeker643** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:18 am

pup wrote:They got Bray!

That's the type of thing that scares me about grabbing those 'impact' players in the top 10. Sure, it was the Browns and Dolphins who took Braylon and Ginn Jr. 3rd and 9th respectively, but you better be right if you pass up more picks to take those guys.

Of course, the guys making the Braylon and Ginn picks having more picks to fuck up is equally scary.

Meh... at some point you just have to have faith that the guy doing the picking is right, I guess.

But right now, today, I'd rather have answers at 4 or 5 blatantly weak spots.

Today.

by **peeker643** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:21 am

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:No matter where they came from, its an indication of how far away the Browns are fromm a foundation, let alone becoming a play-off team

I wonder what the Browns roster looks like as per draft pick

Be interesting to see those numbers from all the NFL teams, really.

by **jerryroche** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:41 am

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:I wonder what the Browns roster looks like as per draft pick

Ask and ye shall receive. Make of these what you will. (Four 1st-round picks in starting lineups.)
Position/Player Draft Round/Pick Number
xxx = undrafted

WR Greg Little 2/59
LT Joe Thomas 1/3
LG Jason Pinkston 5/150
C Alex Mack 1/21
RG Shawn Lauvao 3/92
RT Tony Pashos 5/173
TE Evan Moore xxx
WR Mohamed Massaquoi 2/50
QB Colt McCoy 3/85
FB Owen Marecic 4/124
RB Peyton Hillis 7/227
DE Jabaal Sheard 2/37
DT Phil Taylor 1/21
DT Ahtyba Rubin 6/190
DE Jayme Mitchell xxx
LB Chris Gocong 3/71
LB D’Qwell Jackson 2/34
LB Scott Fujita 5/143
CB Joe Haden 1/7
CB Sheldon Brown 2/59
FS Mike Adams xxx
SS T.J. Ward 2/38

by **e0y2e3** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:23 am

Two elite players = two top ten picks.

They have traded back 2 of the last three years, cannot do it again, especially with a second first rounder.

by **Lubber** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:45 am

mattvan1 wrote:
And they were still a joke until they also found a coach who could, well, uh, actually coach.

This is the Brownies top need, a good head coach. We could take Luck next year and Shurmur would not know what to do with him. Until we get a decent head coach in there, it will be déjà vu.

by **e0y2e3** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:54 am

What, no way to work Tebow into this thread Lubber?

by **bookelly** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:55 am

Lubber wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
And they were still a joke until they also found a coach who could, well, uh, actually coach.

This is the Brownies top need, a good head coach. We could take Luck next year and Shurmur would not know what to do with him. Until we get a decent head coach in there, it will be déjà vu.

^^^^
THIS

by **Rat_Tail** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:00 am

Even if the Browns could get RG3, Blackmon, and Richardson they would still probably end up sucking.

Just saying.

by **Lubber** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:11 am

e0y2e3 wrote:What, no way to work Tebow into this thread Lubber?

You just did. Seems like you might be a closet fanboi as you put it minus all the vulgarity.

by **e0y2e3** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:19 am

Rat_Tail wrote:Even if the Browns could get RG3, Blackmon, and Richardson they would still probably end up sucking.

Just saying.

Fuck off cowboys fan.

And nice on Lubs, you really got me.

by **JCoz** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:21 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Two elite players = two top ten picks.

They have traded back 2 of the last three years, cannot do it again, especially with a second first rounder.

Here's the thing E0, I dont know why you are so stuck on this draft position slot=elite players in the NFL.

Take a look at this page.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing

Its starts on passing but you can click on Rushing, Recieving, Defense, whatever from there.

I just did a quick check on some of the things people equate with elite players in the NFL.

League leaders in QB rating, Recieving Yards and TD's, Rushing yards and TD's, Sacks, Tackles, INT's....

The thing that you quickly notice is that there are few top ten picks in the top 15-20 of these catagories this season. QB's more than anything, which was probably obvious. (Seems to be about 40% for QB's and <15% for the rest)

So while I'm not advocating getting out of the 1st round, I dont see any proof that indicates the Browns are cheating themselves by not choosing players in the top ten of the draft.

by **peeker643** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:39 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Two elite players = two top ten picks.

They have traded back 2 of the last three years, cannot do it again, especially with a second first rounder.

I'd argue either are elite. I'd argue less that Haden isn't. Thomas is an elite pass blocker and a mediocre run blocker. He may have been most affected by losing Steinbach and not because he's had to help a rookie guard as much as it was Steinbach made Thomas look better in the running game.

Haden is very close to elite.

by **Hikohadon** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:45 am

bookelly wrote:
Lubber wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
And they were still a joke until they also found a coach who could, well, uh, actually coach.

This is the Brownies top need, a good head coach. We could take Luck next year and Shurmur would not know what to do with him. Until we get a decent head coach in there, it will be déjà vu.

^^^^
THIS

And while this very well may be true, it is absolutely not gonna happen and therefore not worth my time to contemplate. It's like stressing about the weather.

by **JCoz** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:48 am

I agree Hiko. New coach isn't coming.

by **e0y2e3** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:56 am

Coz, the hit rate on elite players in the top ten is higher than the hit rate on players taken in the teens, period.

And when you have a top ten pick to swing for the fences with, backed up by a pick at 21 you fucking swing for the fences.

Especially with rookie slotting.

Find me a team in the NFL that has traded back significantly three times in four years and had any sort of draft success.....

And don't even say the Pats, because Mumbles inability to draft is killing that team.

by **mattvan1** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:59 am

A bit dated, but interesting nevertheless

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2006/draft-position

by **JCoz** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:00 pm

Trading back isnt important, its where they draft. Trading back has nothing to do with it.

Most of the most successful franchises of the last decade aren't drafting in the top 10.

I agree 100% with you talking about a higher hit rate than the field (same is true regarding 1st and 2nd rounders in general vs 3-7 BTW), but that is why my point is that all that matters is that you get a hit. Thats why my point is that with a competant GM, more picks is going to be better.

With a competant GM you dont need to blindly swing for the fences and hope you hit something.

by **e0y2e3** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:05 pm

Again, find me a succesfull team that has turned it around trading back three times in four years.

Or fuck, find me one of the young up and coming teams that has done it.

It's beyond silly.

You trade back to build a base occasionally, sure, but not every single year on a team that literally has ZERO explosive playmakers.

by **mattvan1** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:08 pm

JCoz wrote:Trading back isnt important, its where they draft. Trading back has nothing to do with it.

Most of the most successful franchises of the last decade aren't drafting in the top 10.

I agree 100% with you talking about a higher hit rate than the field (same is true regarding 1st and 2nd rounders in general vs 3-7 BTW), but that is why my point is that all that matters is that you get a hit. Thats why my point is that with a competant GM, more picks is going to be better.

With a competant GM you dont need to blindly swing for the fences and hope you hit something.

Couple of things - it's tough to cherry pick stats and point back to draft position as an argument for trading back. Wes Welker is leading the NFL and was an UDFA 8 years ago. He would be Darren Chiverinni on the Browns. Many of those league leaders you point to are a product of elite playmakers at other positions - in a risng tide lifts all boats sorta way.

As far as "hit rate" - I agree as long as you divide QB from every other position - and that's the real debate for the Browns. Keep the (for the sake of argument) #4 overall to try and grab the "QB of the Future" or trade down and get more picks to continue filling all of the holes.

by **e0y2e3** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:10 pm

And if Blackmon is Larry Fitzgerald, you punt that?

Seriously, this is my point.

This team needs to aim for elite, not two more fucking Phil Taylors. He's cute and nice and all, but two more of him doesn't have the same impact as a bona-fide pro-bowl player at this point.

by **JCoz** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:23 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Again, find me a succesfull team that has turned it around trading back three times in four years.

Or fuck, find me one of the young up and coming teams that has done it.

It's beyond silly.

You trade back to build a base occasionally, sure, but not every single year on a team that literally has ZERO explosive playmakers.

E0 we are going in circles, I just showed you that explosive playmakers are coming from all over the place in the draft, so the point is just to get it right, where ever you draft.

I'm not going to bitch if the team takes Richardson or Blackmon or Barkley at #4 or trades down or even trades up. I'm going to bitch if they screw the pooch on whoever they pick. Get the pick right. I dont NEED them to trade down, I'm just saying that it isn't why we are in the situation that we are in.

The Browns made plenty of picks in the top 10 since 99. That hasn't gotten us far either. We also dont need anymore Warrens, Browns, or Couch's.

by **peeker643** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:33 pm

Two elite players and 8 competent starters (including those elite guys) in the next two drafts.

Trade up, trade back, stay where ya are, whatever. Mine the late rounds for one lite guy and 6 of those starters, I don't give a shit. But that's what you need. And if you trade back this season to get 5 of those guys and none of the elite guys then you have work to do next year.

You can get elite all through the first couple rounds just like you can get fucked all through the first couple rounds.

Just be right. That'll make it easier.

by **Lubber** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:58 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
bookelly wrote:
Lubber wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
And they were still a joke until they also found a coach who could, well, uh, actually coach.

This is the Brownies top need, a good head coach. We could take Luck next year and Shurmur would not know what to do with him. Until we get a decent head coach in there, it will be déjà vu.

^^^^
THIS

And while this very well may be true, it is absolutely not gonna happen and therefore not worth my time to contemplate. It's like stressing about the weather.

Well, we are not going to get Luck either, yet many posts seem to be wondering "what if". So what if Walrus finally has the sack to can his old buddy Fritz's nephew after one year and swallow his pride to admit he made a mistake? Bring in a Jeff Fisher and get this team on the right track coaching wise. Until that happens, this team is going to be what we saw this year no matter whom we select next year. So why stress over the draft picks when it will no matter either?

by **Gradysmanldy** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:12 pm

Lubber wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
bookelly wrote:
Lubber wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
And they were still a joke until they also found a coach who could, well, uh, actually coach.

This is the Brownies top need, a good head coach. We could take Luck next year and Shurmur would not know what to do with him. Until we get a decent head coach in there, it will be déjà vu.

^^^^
THIS

And while this very well may be true, it is absolutely not gonna happen and therefore not worth my time to contemplate. It's like stressing about the weather.

Well, we are not going to get Luck either, yet many posts seem to be wondering "what if". So what if Walrus finally has the sack to can his old buddy Fritz's nephew after one year and swallow his pride to admit he made a mistake? Bring in a Jeff Fisher and get this team on the right track coaching wise. Until that happens, this team is going to be what we saw this year no matter whom we select next year. So why stress over the draft picks when it will no matter either?

C'mon Lubb, lets not hijack here with the coach issues. Holmgren said he's bringing back SHUR next year, and we ALL knew that shiz was coming. Lets talk draft here, not moon over rainbows.

by **Lubber** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:28 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:
C'mon Lubb, lets not hijack here with the coach issues. Holmgren said he's bringing back SHUR next year, and we ALL knew that shiz was coming. Lets talk draft here, not moon over rainbows.

Not trying to hijack anything. It is my opinion that the draft pick will not matter much due to our head coach. With that being said, they do need a playmaker (RG3, Blackmon or Richardson) so that in 2013 when a new coach is in place, he has said playmaker (and another one from the 2013 draft, Tyler Bray (QB), or Marcus Lattimore (RB) depending on who they select in 2012).

by **Hikohadon** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:38 pm

Lubber wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
bookelly wrote:
Lubber wrote:
mattvan1 wrote:
And they were still a joke until they also found a coach who could, well, uh, actually coach.

This is the Brownies top need, a good head coach. We could take Luck next year and Shurmur would not know what to do with him. Until we get a decent head coach in there, it will be déjà vu.

^^^^
THIS

And while this very well may be true, it is absolutely not gonna happen and therefore not worth my time to contemplate. It's like stressing about the weather.

Well, we are not going to get Luck either, yet many posts seem to be wondering "what if". So what if Walrus finally has the sack to can his old buddy Fritz's nephew after one year and swallow his pride to admit he made a mistake? Bring in a Jeff Fisher and get this team on the right track coaching wise. Until that happens, this team is going to be what we saw this year no matter whom we select next year. So why stress over the draft picks when it will no matter either?

A. I'm not talking about Luck either. Not gonna happen, not worth my time.

B. The draft picks do exist and will make a difference. If you wanna be one of those guys that just makes shit up like "Any QB would fail here b/c of the Offensive Line" or "No player can be good here b/c of the coach", that's your option, but please realize that it sounds just as stupid as patent assertions such as "No QB from a spread offense will do well in the NFL" or "Not all of Lubber's takes are bad."

by **pup** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:31 pm

http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/33991123

Barkley staying at USC?

by **Govbarney** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:12 pm

We will find out later today, but I suspect he stays b/c he has got a great shot at being the #1 overall next season. Besides his family has $, so its not like he is donating blood for cash...

by **Gradysmanldy** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:32 pm

Govbarney wrote:We will find out later today, but I suspect he stays b/c he has got a great shot at being the #1 overall next season. Besides his family has $, so its not like he is donating blood for cash...

Hate to say it, but I think you're right. Oh, to be the Browns. The year they *might* actually go for a first round QB, one of the 3 top options decides to stick around. Oh well, if the top 2 go, give Colt another year with some better weapons and get Barkley next year.

by **Hikohadon** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:51 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:
Govbarney wrote:We will find out later today, but I suspect he stays b/c he has got a great shot at being the #1 overall next season. Besides his family has $, so its not like he is donating blood for cash...

Hate to say it, but I think you're right. Oh, to be the Browns. The year they *might* actually go for a first round QB, one of the 3 top options decides to stick around. Oh well, if the top 2 go, give Colt another year with some better weapons and get Barkley next year.

They can't even get the #1 overall pick this year, I doubt they would be able to get it next year either. If they "get Colt some better weapons", hell, he might be able to win 6 games!

by **Govbarney** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:01 pm

From what I have read , one of Barkley closest mentors/friends is Carson Palmer, I guarantee Palmer is in his ear telling him to avoid the state of Ohio at all costs.

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:01 pm

Good to see Barkley is smart enough to eff himself in the ass.

He needs look no further than Leinhart, who cost himself TONS of money to realize how stupid he is.

Staying to be #1 overall is beyond foolish, Luck is the outlier, not vice versa.

by **Hikohadon** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:14 pm

Govbarney wrote:From what I have read , one of Barkley closest mentors/friends is Carson Palmer, I guarantee Palmer is in his ear telling him to avoid the state of Ohio at all costs.

Having Carson Palmer as a mentor is strike one right there.

Unless, of course, you want to have a completely useless career. He'd know all about that.

by **peeker643** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:19 pm

I want no part of Barkley this year or next but tis does put some pressure on the Browns to not fuck up and win one of these final two games.

It's the one challenge in the last 13 years that I feel fully confident they can meet.

by **Hikohadon** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:21 pm

peeker643 wrote:I want no part of Barkley this year or next but tis does put some pressure on the Browns to not fuck up and win one of these final two games.

It's the one challenge in the last 13 years that I feel fully confident they can meet.

Not if Pittsburgh feels they can't win the division and decides to sit POS.

The Browns can beat Batch. Not saying they will, but the odds would be much uncomfortably higher.

by **peeker643** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:26 pm

TEBOW TWO/TOO!!!!!

Yes!!!!

Barkley is a devout Christian and plays acoustic guitar with a church youth group. While he was a student at Mater Dei, Barkley's parents started the Monarchs for Marines (M4M) campaign, where hundreds of Mater Dei students, coaches and parents volunteered to landscape and renovate youth areas on nearby Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton. Barkley had a 3.77 GPA in high school and frequently speaks to young students about the importance of staying on top of school work. During his Christmas holiday in 2008, Barkley went with a group of friends and family to help run an orphanage in South Africa. Barkley also appears on I Am Second, sharing the story of his Christian faith and personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

by **JCoz** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:31 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Good to see Barkley is smart enough to eff himself in the ass.

He needs look no further than Leinhart, who cost himself TONS of money to realize how stupid he is.

Staying to be #1 overall is beyond foolish, Luck is the outlier, not vice versa.

Barkley will be a top 10 pick and is teetering on being the third QB drafted, actually is likely to be the 3rd QB drafted.

That isn't in line with Lienart, and it isn't in line with Luck.

He could get hurt obviously, but this is not the #1 pick coming back in any case, more like the #7-#10 pick.

by **e0y2e3** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:41 pm

When you are for sure going in the top seven you come out, period.

by **peeker643** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:42 pm

JCoz wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:Good to see Barkley is smart enough to eff himself in the ass.

He needs look no further than Leinhart, who cost himself TONS of money to realize how stupid he is.

Staying to be #1 overall is beyond foolish, Luck is the outlier, not vice versa.

Barkley will be a top 10 pick and is teetering on being the third QB drafted, actually is likely to be the 3rd QB drafted.

That isn't in line with Lienart, and it isn't in line with Luck.

He could get hurt obviously, but this is not the #1 pick coming back in any case, more like the #7-#10 pick.

Next year's flavor of the day will surpass Barkley. It happens almost every year. Someone like Cam or RGIII will be a breakout player.

I don't begrudge the kid staying. It's fine. If he's staying to be a kid and a student (and by all accounts he's a good one of each) then whatever. But I do agree a top 10 pick going back to hopefully improve his draft status (and again I'm not saying he is) is crazy in this new NFL financial environment. It would cost him more to Locker it then he stands to make if he nails it, no?

by **JCoz** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:10 pm

I really dont think he is coming back just to be the #1 pick...he might actually want to win a NC, something that is a real opportunity next season for him.

I agree if you are going to be taken that high, then you in most cases should go. He already has started for 3 seasons. he probably should go.

But lienart was a sure #1 and the contracts and money were more comparitavly substantial. Smith (who got lienarts contract) made more than Cam this season..

Just saying that its not the same situation, even though I agree with you that he should go.

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