The Race for the #4 Pick in the Draft

[swerb]

Colts 0-12 - Luck
Rams 2-10 - have Bradford
Vikings 2-10 - have Ponder
Jags 3-9 - play tonight, have Gabbert

At 4-8: Browns, Dolphins, Eagles, Redskins, Panthers, Buccaneers, Chargers (4-7, play tonight).

All likely to win another game IMO. Our only chance of screwing up our shot at whatever QB we want is in Arizona.

We lose out, we get #4 or #5 overall, and get our QB. And losing out is probably our only hope of Walrus cutting bait on his boy Shurmur.

[SoulDawg74]

Colts 0-12 - Luck
Rams 2-10 - have Bradford
Vikings 2-10 - have Ponder
Jags 3-9 - play tonight, have Gabbert

At 4-8: Browns, Dolphins, Eagles, Redskins, Panthers, Buccaneers, Chargers (4-7, play tonight).

All likely to win another game IMO. Our only chance of screwing up our shot at whatever QB we want is in Arizona.

We lose out, we get #4 or #5 overall, and get our QB. And losing out is probably our only hope of Walrus cutting bait on his boy Shurmur.

SD:

Unless we can get to number three , we'll more than likely be left standing with our dicks in our hands as more astute deal makers trade past us and get the QB we need to have if we're ever to become a team to be recogned with.

[gotribe31]

Colts 0-12 - Luck
Rams 2-10 - have Bradford
Vikings 2-10 - have Ponder
Jags 3-9 - play tonight, have Gabbert

At 4-8: Browns, Dolphins, Eagles, Redskins, Panthers, Buccaneers, Chargers (4-7, play tonight).

All likely to win another game IMO. Our only chance of screwing up our shot at whatever QB we want is in Arizona.

We lose out, we get #4 or #5 overall, and get our QB. And losing out is probably our only hope of Walrus cutting bait on his boy Shurmur.

Of those other 4-8 teams, Dolphins, Redskins are the only ones that definitely need a QB. Eagles just paid Vick a billion dollars, and unless Tampa Bay thinks Freeman v. 2011 is what they are getting going forward rather than v. 2010, can't see them taking a QB.

[Gradysmanldy]

Colts 0-12 - Luck
Rams 2-10 - have Bradford
Vikings 2-10 - have Ponder
Jags 3-9 - play tonight, have Gabbert

At 4-8: Browns, Dolphins, Eagles, Redskins, Panthers, Buccaneers, Chargers (4-7, play tonight).

All likely to win another game IMO. Our only chance of screwing up our shot at whatever QB we want is in Arizona.

We lose out, we get #4 or #5 overall, and get our QB. And losing out is probably our only hope of Walrus cutting bait on his boy Shurmur.

Of those other 4-8 teams, Dolphins, Redskins are the only ones that definitely need a QB. Eagles just paid Vick a billion dollars, and unless Tampa Bay thinks Freeman v. 2011 is what they are getting going forward rather than v. 2010, can't see them taking a QB.

100-1 Holmgren brings in an OC with experience running the WCO this offseason, and promises that the offense will get better with him, understanding that:

A) OTA's/TC's will be available
B) Year of experience in system for players and coaches
C) Addition of more skill players by draft/FA
D)

No way Murmur gets let go after a year.....and in a way, those things will make a difference. (Hopefully, the play calling duties stay with the OC vice Murmur)

I wouldn't be surprised if either/both the Redskins/Dolphins pick up a proven vet to take the reins next year.....Flynn or Manning, potentially. Shannamanan knows he needs to fix his O-line with multiple picks to run that zone blocking scheme he excelled with in Denver, and the Fins have enough skill players to grab a vet and make a splash now vice later.

[FUDU]

I agree no way in hell MH sends Shurmur packing. Plus I don't believe there is any doubt Holmgren wouldn't draft a QB in this draft regardless if said QB is highly touted or not.

[pup]

Every time his lips have moved, he has left little question. Patty will call plays. The OC will be hired to set up the game plan and be there to talk to the offensive players during the games.

Not sure why we are so convinced he won't take a QB? Ya'll remember the circumstances that led to them drafting Colt, correct? I don't think he is as much Mike's boy as some are thinking.

[FUDU]

Every time his lips have moved, he has left little question. Patty will call plays. The OC will be hired to set up the game plan and be there to talk to the offensive players during the games.

Not sure why we are so convinced he won't take a QB? Ya'll remember the circumstances that led to them drafting Colt, correct? I don't think he is as much Mike's boy as some are thinking.

IMO the only way Shurmur is sent packing is if Mike himself is going to take over as HC.

[pup]

Every time his lips have moved, he has left little question. Patty will call plays. The OC will be hired to set up the game plan and be there to talk to the offensive players during the games.

Not sure why we are so convinced he won't take a QB? Ya'll remember the circumstances that led to them drafting Colt, correct? I don't think he is as much Mike's boy as some are thinking.

IMO the only way Shurmur is sent packing is if Mike himself is going to take over as HC.

Won't happen until players are in place. Mike ain't grinding for 8-8. He will go with the Pat Riley Plan.

[FUDU]

Good point, he has to protect that reputation.

[mattvan1]

We lose out, we get #4 or #5 overall, and get our QB. And losing out is probably our only hope of Walrus cutting bait on his boy Shurmur.

No guarantee that RG3 declares. Barkley or Jones either (although more likely than Griffin)

TCF dictates that Browns go o-fer the rest of the way, secure the #4 overall, only to find the best available QB is Joe Bauserman.

[Gradysmanldy]

Barkley is headed to the league, per his interview on ESPN last week I caught at the gym. "My goal for the year was to leave on a high note, and there's no doubt i've done that" or some such nonsense.

[FUDU]

Barkley is headed to the league, per his interview on ESPN last week I caught at the gym. "My goal for the year was to leave on a high note, and there's no doubt i've done that" or some such nonsense.

Well that answers the IS HE A WINNER question.

Next.

[hiko]

Colts 0-12 - Luck
Rams 2-10 - have Bradford
Vikings 2-10 - have Ponder
Jags 3-9 - play tonight, have Gabbert

At 4-8: Browns, Dolphins, Eagles, Redskins, Panthers, Buccaneers, Chargers (4-7, play tonight).

All likely to win another game IMO. Our only chance of screwing up our shot at whatever QB we want is in Arizona.

We lose out, we get #4 or #5 overall, and get our QB. And losing out is probably our only hope of Walrus cutting bait on his boy Shurmur.

SD:

Unless we can get to number three , we'll more than likely be left standing with our dicks in our hands as more astute deal makers trade past us and get the QB we need to have if we're ever to become a team to be recogned with.

With high draft picks more valuable than ever and Justin Blackmon/Matt Kalil sitting up there, I doubt anyone has enough firepower to trade up with STL and MIN.

[swerb]

Colts 0-12 - Luck
Rams 2-10 - have Bradford
Vikings 2-10 - have Ponder
Jags 3-9 - play tonight, have Gabbert

At 4-8: Browns, Dolphins, Eagles, Redskins, Panthers, Buccaneers, Chargers (4-7, play tonight).

All likely to win another game IMO. Our only chance of screwing up our shot at whatever QB we want is in Arizona.

We lose out, we get #4 or #5 overall, and get our QB. And losing out is probably our only hope of Walrus cutting bait on his boy Shurmur.

SD:

Unless we can get to number three , we'll more than likely be left standing with our dicks in our hands as more astute deal makers trade past us and get the QB we need to have if we're ever to become a team to be recogned with.

With high draft picks more valuable than ever and Justin Blackmon/Matt Kalil sitting up there, I doubt anyone has enough firepower to trade up with STL and MIN.

Yes, both teams desperately need an alpha dog WR and a stud tackle.

[Lubber]

Barkley is headed to the league, per his interview on ESPN last week I caught at the gym. "My goal for the year was to leave on a high note, and there's no doubt i've done that" or some such nonsense.

Well that answers the IS HE A WINNER question.

Next.

Barkely is definitely a winner just does it in a different way then the guy he has recently become a fan of: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2011/12/tim-tebow-matt-barkley-usc-nfl-denver-broncos-heisman-trophy.html

I would rather see us get RG3 (hopefully he comes out). I see much more potential there.

[SoulDawg74]

Colts 0-12 - Luck
Rams 2-10 - have Bradford
Vikings 2-10 - have Ponder
Jags 3-9 - play tonight, have Gabbert

At 4-8: Browns, Dolphins, Eagles, Redskins, Panthers, Buccaneers, Chargers (4-7, play tonight).

All likely to win another game IMO. Our only chance of screwing up our shot at whatever QB we want is in Arizona.

We lose out, we get #4 or #5 overall, and get our QB. And losing out is probably our only hope of Walrus cutting bait on his boy Shurmur.

SD:

Unless we can get to number three , we'll more than likely be left standing with our dicks in our hands as more astute deal makers trade past us and get the QB we need to have if we're ever to become a team to be recogned with.

With high draft picks more valuable than ever and Justin Blackmon/Matt Kalil sitting up there, I doubt anyone has enough firepower to trade up with STL and MIN.

SD:

I hope your right , however I see Shanny as desperate , the genius reclamation project of Beck and the turnover machine has crashed and burned , and they impeach presidents in Washington so the fool that screws up the deadskins is apt to get hung.

All things being equal , I want to end the season ahead of everybody who needs a QB , and keep my eye on anybody likely to deal down a spot or two and still get their guy .

Once Dc moves up and grabs Barkley , I'm on the next team like a Duck on a Junebug for RG3.

SoulDawg

[Doc]

TCF dictates the Browns beat Arizona, go 5-11, and miss out on all the QBs. I'm all in on QB for the first pick...gotta keep drafting till you find the one. I like Colt McCoy. He's just not the one. At this point, I'd say I'm ambivalent at best. As to say, losing out won't bother me much, but I'll stop short of rooting against Cleveland. Though, having #4 overall this year is about our best case scenario.

I keep thinking there's no way Minnesota is that bad, right? Maybe if AP gets healthy and they win a few games? That's just being greedy though. And only if you think/care if the Vikings snatch Blackmon. Anyways...If we were fortunate enough to "luck" into the 4th (3rd???) pick, you could make a very legitimate offer to Indy for you know who. Assuming that doesn't go down, 2 1sts and an early 2nd is about the best you can hope for, for a young and building team.

[municipalmutt]

Even when it comes to having to suck we suck.

[hiko]

Stupid Jaguars. Stupid Gabbert, looking horrible enough that Jacksonville might steal RG3.

I too look for Barkley to score high on the Winner Test at the combine. It's kinda like the Wunderlic, but it asks you questions like:

There are 2 minutes left in the game and your team is down by 4. If your team wins, you go to the Playoffs. Do you:

1. Fake an injury. It's not your fault if you're not in the game.

2. Drive down the field and win the game. You are you, after all. After the game, you bite the shark that ate that surfer girl's arm off.

3. Try real hard but fail in the end. Hey, those other guys get paid too.

4. Throw an interception or hold the ball too long and get stripped from behind. You lose, but it sends the message that you need better protection and better receivers and a better running game so that things are as easy as can be for you.

[leadpipe]

My best guess is, no matter the draft position - if they get RG3, he will blow and Barkley will be great. If RG# gets drafted ahead, he will be great and the Browns will draft Barkley, who will blow.

I do know Lerner wouldn't know either one of them if they tossed a shuttle pass off his head, and that Holmgren will choose the one that fits his "system."

Go Browns.

[municipalmutt]

My best guess is, no matter the draft position - if they get RG3, he will blow and Barkley will be great. If RG# gets drafted ahead, he will be great and the Browns will draft Barkley, who will blow.

Don't forget the career ending injury in training camp or motorcycle injury. Lots of other scenarios.

[trsteve1]

My best guess is, no matter the draft position - if they get RG3, he will blow and Barkley will be great. If RG# gets drafted ahead, he will be great and the Browns will draft Barkley, who will blow.

I do know Lerner wouldn't know either one of them if they tossed a shuttle pass off his head, and that Holmgren will choose the one that fits his "system."

Go Browns.

Now those are the words of a true Cleveland Sports fan.

[swerb]

Stupid Jaguars. Stupid Gabbert, looking horrible enough that Jacksonville might steal RG3.[/i]

In the history of the NFL Draft, has a team ever spent back to back top ten picks on QBs?

On a somewhat related note, a quick perusal of Matt Barkley's Twitter account has me thinking he may go Treg Lee meets Terrelle Pryor all over the Wonderlic.

[motherscratcher]

Interesting on Manning/Luck and the Colts.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/07/colts-cant-pay-and-trade-peyton/

Sounds like the Colts won't be able to trade Peyton in the next 2 years because the cap hit would be enormous. They would have to cut him. Furthermore, it doesn't sound like either Luck nor Manning want to be on the same team.

Kravitz, who covers the Colts for the Indianapolis Star, points out that, if the Colts pay Peyton and then trade him, the Colts will absorb a 2012 salary cap charge of $38.8 million. And if the Colts trade Peyton Manning in 2013, the cap charge would drop to only $28.8 million.

Absent a willingness by Peyton to move the due date of his payment, a trade becomes impossible. Thus, if Peyton tells the Colts “my contract is my contract,” they’ll have to cut him, or they’ll have to keep him for at least two more seasons.

[peeker643]

I remember when Bob Kravitz was a PD writer. He was outstanding. Then he went to Denver for the Rocky Mountain News (I believe). Miss reading him. If he came back here today he'd easily eclipse any of the sorry-ass fuck weasels that write for a living in this town.

Although Peyton adroitly has avoided any discussion regarding the future, plans undoubtedly are being made. There’s a good chance that the final plan already has been crafted, and that the only thing left to do is implement it.

If that’s the case, Archie Manning’s comments from Tuesday become even more significant. Given that Archie caucused with Oliver Luck the night before Archie told FOX Sports Radio that he “doubts” Peyton and Andrew Luck want to be on the same team, it’s safe to assume that Oliver agrees with that sentiment.

[e0y2e3]

So when NBA players leave shitty orgs they are Divas but we are okay with Peyton and Peyton Jr. refusing to work together and the resulting holding hostage of a franchise?

[Ziner]

So when NBA players leave shitty orgs they are Divas but we are okay with Peyton and Peyton Jr. refusing to work together and the resulting holding hostage of a franchise?

If you don't understand the differences in those two situations I am not sure what to say.

Clearly Peyton and Luck are working back channels and planned to join up since Luck was in HS to dominate the NFL for years to come in a destination market with the first dual QB offense. I bet Peyton even faked his injury as to not risk winning the Super Bowl thus ruining his plan.

[e0y2e3]

Nice one fuckstick.

Refusing to play together can be just a detrimental to a team's future as planning to play with your friend.

It's exactly the same thing, fucking a franchise and town (in Peyton's case one that has adored and paid him millions while giving him a ring) because you are a selfish fuck of an athlete.

[Ziner]

How exactly does Indianapolis or the Colts get fucked in this deal? Drafting the most pro ready QB since Elway? Sure wish the Browns would get fucked that way. I am not really sure how Peyton would be selfish by saying he didn't want to play in Indy if Luck was there. I would imagine Luck doesn't want to play in Indy if Peyton is there. Either you bench your #1 pick who is the most pro ready in decades or you bench a HoF'er getting paid 28 mil a year. I see no scenario where Indy would like to have both on their roster, regardless of the wants and desires of Peyton.

It is not remotely the same.

[Triple-S]

How exactly does Indianapolis or the Colts get fucked in this deal? Drafting the most pro ready QB since Elway? Sure wish the Browns would get fucked that way. I am not really sure how Peyton would be selfish by saying he didn't want to play in Indy if Luck was there. I would imagine Luck doesn't want to play in Indy if Peyton is there. Either you bench your #1 pick who is the most pro ready in decades or you bench a HoF'er getting paid 28 mil a year. I see no scenario where Indy would like to have both on their roster, regardless of the wants and desires of Peyton.

It is not remotely the same.

It's really not.

Indy is going to be set with Luck at QB for the next decade or so. the team is fine.

The same really cannot be said about most NBA teams.

[Ziner]

This doesn't even mention how Cleveland, Toronto, Phoenix and Denver were set back at least half a decade because of the decision to leave. In what you claim is the exact same raping of the Indianapolis franchise and fan base they get setup for the next decade.

It'd probably be easier to just admit you hate Peyton Manning and it skews reality for you.

[e0y2e3]

Really, how do they get fucked by Peyton making them cut him because he refuses to play mentor for a year or two?

You fail to see this?

The Cavs got one of the most pro ready PGs in the last five years in exchange for LBJ leaving, MAKES IT ALL BETTER!!!

Peyton, after getting that ridiculous contract, demanding where he plays (and demanding that he isn't playing mentor) is every bit the cocksucker move any NBA player or baseball player has made.

You just don't care because it's the NFL.

[e0y2e3]

To put this in perspective, the Colts are looking at getting NOTHING in return for an asset they have locked up for four more years. That asset also happens to be one of the most valuable commodities in the league.

The Cavs lost an asset that they no longer had locked up because their team sucked ass and he wanted to play with Wade.

[Ziner]

Really, how do they get fucked by Peyton making them cut him because he refuses to play mentor for a year or two?

You fail to see this?

The Cavs got one of the most pro ready PGs in the last five years in exchange for LBJ leaving, MAKES IT ALL BETTER!!!

Peyton, after getting that ridiculous contract, demanding where he plays (and demanding that he isn't playing mentor) is every bit the cocksucker move any NBA player or baseball player has made.

You just don't care because it's the NFL.

Did you read the article Peeker posted? Says Peyton and Luck don't want to play on the same team. Luck doesn't want to sit behind Peyton. How do you not understand that?

I don't care because Indy isn't getting screwed in this deal. They lose a mentor for the most pro ready QB since Elway. They will live. And if they want Peyton and Luck they can do so and then we will see what happens. Peyton can demand a trade or release, they don't have oblige.

What is Peyton going to do, refuse to play because he doesn't like the backup?

Do you even understand what you are saying here?

[e0y2e3]

A rookie has no choice.

A Vet, who has taken (happily) what Peyton has from Indy demanding out if a rookie comes in?

A Vet that held out for THAT CONTRACT LAST FUCKING YEAR?

This is the exact same behavior that leads to LBJ - Melo - Pujols and every other fuck.

You just want to say it's okay for Indy to have to give up Manning for nothing because Luck doesn't like the idea of sitting? Okay....

Luck has no say in the matter.

Manning does.

Manning is behaving just like the NBA guys, things don't go his way he demands out. At least CP3, Howard, D-Will et al were traded for assets their teams could use to rebuild.

Indy is going to get nothing and if the leader of that team and franchise tries to light the city on fire good luck not releasing, especially when you really can't trade him (Do you have any idea how trades in your beloved league work re: cap hits?)

I mean holy fuck, just because you have two assets doesn't mean having the throw one of them away because he is being a cocksucker is okay.

Seriously, live in your NFL Centric World some more.

[e0y2e3]

BTW: Brett Farve, the all hated one, kept his mouth shut.

Peyton Manning, "Geezes Before Tebow," opens his mouth and it's okay...

Love it.

[peeker643]

Is someone actually arguing that there are no entitled assholes in the NFL? I don't see that argument being made, personally.

And Peyton really has no say either. He's there whether he likes it or not unless he's willing to forsake all that cash owed to him. If it's really something he feels strongly about then he should retire and walk away from such a horrific situation and all those millions.

I think there are times you're so defensive about how people perceive the NBA that you invent things about the NFL.

Neither of them have a say. Neither is manuevering to end up in NYC, LA or Miami either as far as I can tell.

I think what's left is Manning is a douchebag and the Manning family might just be full of them. This is not a revelation in the least.

[Commodore Perry]

The browns are losing out. Hate to say it, but they're not winning another game. Colt will be lucky to get end the season with all his limbs attached.

I can't see the Colts cutting Manning, even for a godlike rookie. They've got some holes on that team, and I wouldn't doubt they absolutely rob a team for the #1 pick this year.

[e0y2e3]

Is someone actually arguing that there are no entitled assholes in the NFL? I don't see that argument being made, personally.

And Peyton really has no say either. He's there whether he likes it or not unless he's willing to forsake all that cash owed to him. If it's really something he feels strongly about then he should retire and walk away from such a horrific situation and all those millions.

I think there are times you're so defensive about how people perceive the NBA that you invent things about the NFL.

Neither of them have a say. Neither is manuevering to end up in NYC, LA or Miami either as far as I can tell.

I think what's left is Manning is a douchebag and the Manning family might just be full of them. This is not a revelation in the least.

Everytime an NBA Star demands out of a shitty team I read about it on this boards.

Manning lays the groundwork and not a peep.

And don't give me the what market shit, it's not even remotely relevant to this.

Manning is the same as them, but no one cares to bring it up. Selective finger pointing.

[Ziner]

Seriously, live in your blind Peyton Manning Hate World some more.

The Colts can keep both if they so choose. They are still in control. They can trade him if they want to take the cap hit. Manning can do nothing about it.

Peyton has not demanded out and until he does I think you could tone it down a bit. Who is to say that Polian doesn't release him because it is best for both parties. Once again Colts decision. They hold the cards. Cleveland or Denver did not. Denver got a better trade, but their leverage was dampened by Melo's demand.

This is not the same. I know you get all angry and turn in to the Tazmanian ball of hate when it comes to Peyton, but why dont you see what happens and who does what before you go off the deep end.

Once again, is Peyton going to refuse to play because of who the backup is? If the Colts want him to stay I imagine it will get worked out.

Until then perhaps you could ridicule everyone in the NHB forum and tell everyone how angry and full of blind hate they are.

[e0y2e3]

It's about selective finger pointing Ziner.

Something the people on these boards have perfected.

[Ziner]

Is someone actually arguing that there are no entitled assholes in the NFL? I don't see that argument being made, personally.

And Peyton really has no say either. He's there whether he likes it or not unless he's willing to forsake all that cash owed to him. If it's really something he feels strongly about then he should retire and walk away from such a horrific situation and all those millions.

I think there are times you're so defensive about how people perceive the NBA that you invent things about the NFL.

Neither of them have a say. Neither is manuevering to end up in NYC, LA or Miami either as far as I can tell.

I think what's left is Manning is a douchebag and the Manning family might just be full of them. This is not a revelation in the least.

Everytime an NBA Star demands out of a shitty team I read about it on this boards.

Manning lays the groundwork and not a peep.

And don't give me the what market shit, it's not even remotely relevant to this.

Manning is the same as them, but no one cares to bring it up. Selective finger pointing.

Manning hasn't officially ask for his release. The Colts can keep him. The Colts are not a shitty team (when Curtis Painter is not under center)

Those things are facts. The things you are arguing are not. Proceed.

[Ziner]

It's about selective finger pointing Ziner.

Something the people on these boards have perfected.

Like your thrashing of racists but casual use of gay slang?

[e0y2e3]

Dwight Howard hasn't asked for his release either.

Neither did D-Will or Melo.

Those things are non-actions.

Proceed.

BTW: I love how you try to bring NHB arguments into every post because it's the best you clouded and simple fucking mind can manage to wrap itself around.

[hiko]

You just don't care because it's the NFL.

If you have accepted this, I don't know why you get so upset.

BTW - the main reason no one cares if Peyton Manning demands out is that the team can tell him to go fuck himself. They own his soul for the duration of the contract, and even after that if they want to franchise him. It doesn't matter what he says - they've got him by the balls.

In the NBA, the players have the teams by the balls.

So Manning can talk all he wants.

Also, he's not demanding out, he wants to stay... unless they draft his replacement.

[e0y2e3]

Fair point Hiko.

Still boggle my mind how people can openly bitch about one instance and sit on their hands about another.

I'm not asking for much, just either bitch all the time or don't bitch. I don't care which is right or wrong.

[Ziner]

Dwight Howard hasn't asked for his release either.

Neither did D-Will or Melo.

Those things are non-actions.

Proceed.

BTW: I love how you try to bring NHB arguments into every post because it's the best you clouded and simple fucking mind can manage to wrap itself around.

I am sorry, did I miss where anyone is nearly as fired up about those three as you are about this? Please direct me if so.

Damn, e0y thinks I am simple minded. How can I live if I am not accepted and highly respected by all members on a message board.

Quit being clothes minded.

[e0y2e3]

Really? Do you want to go back and count the teeth gnashing done over those guys over the course of the last year on the Cavs board? Enough to make it intolerable before it just finally died.

[hiko]

By the way, Browns up to #7 in the Draft now. Behind fellow 4-8 teams Washington and Carolina in strength of schedule, but I can certainly see both those teams winning at least one more.

For the first time in my life, I actually want the Browns to lose out. It's a strange feeling.

[Ziner]

Really? Do you want to go back and count the teeth gnashing done over those guys over the course of the last year on the Cavs board? Enough to make it intolerable before it just finally died.

I'd love for you to go back and find someone as angry as you are about Peyton Manning. I looked a little bit and didn't see anything earth shattering besides your angry responses to pretty mild statements.