Good God Almighty

[bac5665]

Let's make this easy.

To win the Super Bowl, you need a Hall of Fame QB. Period. Trent Dilfer doesn't win for the Ravens anymore. The rules have changed to much.

Is Tebow a Hall of Fame QB? Answer that question and you have the answer.

Is Eli Mannings a HOF QB and I would debate that Rapeburgh is a HOF QB. You need more then one player to win a good QB helps but you need a whole team around them as well.

I'm sure that Rapelesburger is in. He's won two Superbowls and been in a 3rd. And, unfortunately, I really do think that he'll be in more. He's a lock for the Hall.

Manning, maybe, maybe not. But he's certainly in the discussion. The 07 SB was pretty special. But remember, it took a stupidly unbelievable catch to win that game, and so if Manning slips into the list as a lucky guy who was also as hot as any QB ever, then I don't think that he disproves the overall point.

[FUDU]

Take caution in judging a QB by means of not making mistakes to not lose games v. being able to make plays to win games.

[hiko]

The most retarded argument I've ever seen in my life is that someone's a "winner". It's so fucking stupid it makes my blood pressure spike.

Colt was a "winner" in college too. So was Matt Leinart. Guess they weren't lucky enough to start for a team that can win with the offense doing nothing more than limiting turnovers by passing 6 times a game.

Wake me when this "winner" beats a good team.

"Winner". For fucks sakes...

[Lubber]

The most retarded argument I've ever seen in my life is that someone's a "winner". It's so fucking stupid it makes my blood pressure spike.

Colt was a "winner" in college too. So was Matt Leinart. Guess they weren't lucky enough to start for a team that can win with the offense doing nothing more than limiting turnovers by passing 6 times a game.

Wake me when this "winner" beats a good team.

"Winner". For fucks sakes...

Sorry if the truth makes your blood pressure spike. Maybe you should pay closer attention to the games so it won't spike so much. Tebow averages 21 attempts per game since becoming a starter, not 6. They beat the Jets, participants in the AFC title game the last two seasons.


Leinart was surrounded with tons of talent at USC and rode that to a big payday as a first round pick and then decided he liked the celebrity lifestyle and never put his heart into football. Colt is unfortunately being coached by a guy who is too stubborn to use him for his strengths.


I am just presenting the facts. Wherever Tebow has been, he wins. If winning with unorthodox methods makes your BP spike, then you will be in trouble for as long as tebow is playing.

[motherscratcher]

"...never put his heart into football. "

no mas

[FUDU]

Hiko is correct.

The combined record of the teams Denver has rode a 5 game winning streak over is 25-34 IIRC.

....and winning is such a subjective and fickle argument. Mike Vick was considered a winner before he went to prison, why? He never won squat in terms of championships or a significant % of games he played in. Lots of QB fits that description, including John Elway himself (RE: championships, but how quick we are to forget his 0-3 record in SBs before the coach and RB showed up, record setting SB losses I might add).

The whole point being stop pretending to be objectively watching the games Tebow is playing in and at the same time claim HE is a winner or HE is the reason for Denver's relative success to this point.

EARL MORRALL WAS A WINNER!

[hiko]

The most retarded argument I've ever seen in my life is that someone's a "winner". It's so fucking stupid it makes my blood pressure spike.

Colt was a "winner" in college too. So was Matt Leinart. Guess they weren't lucky enough to start for a team that can win with the offense doing nothing more than limiting turnovers by passing 6 times a game.

Wake me when this "winner" beats a good team.

"Winner". For fucks sakes...

Sorry if the truth makes your blood pressure spike. Maybe you should pay closer attention to the games so it won't spike so much. Tebow averages 21 attempts per game since becoming a starter, not 6. They beat the Jets, participants in the AFC title game the last two seasons.


Leinart was surrounded with tons of talent at USC and rode that to a big payday as a first round pick and then decided he liked the celebrity lifestyle and never put his heart into football. Colt is unfortunately being coached by a guy who is too stubborn to use him for his strengths.


I am just presenting the facts. Wherever Tebow has been, he wins. If winning with unorthodox methods makes your BP spike, then you will be in trouble for as long as tebow is playing.

Yes, I will be in trouble until the end of the season.

Like Tebow wasn't surrounded by tons of talent at Florida.

Who cares about last season? Jets suck. Ask KC and Indy about last season.

Forward this to about 4:45 to check out a winner.

[Lubber]

Hiko is correct.

The combined record of the teams Denver has rode a 5 game winning streak over is 25-34 IIRC.

....and winning is such a subjective and fickle argument. Mike Vick was considered a winner before he went to prison, why? He never won squat in terms of championships or a significant % of games he played in. Lots of QB fits that description, including John Elway himself (RE: championships, but how quick we are to forget his 0-3 record in SBs before the coach and RB showed up, record setting SB losses I might add).

The whole point being stop pretending to be objectively watching the games Tebow is playing in and at the same time claim HE is a winner or HE is the reason for Denver's relative success to this point.

EARL MORRALL WAS A WINNER!

I do not remember Mike Vick being considered a winner, but more of an incredible athlete who tried to rely on his athletic ability versus studying the game. Elway would of been a winner in my book without the 2 wins. Getting to the Super Bowl 3 times means your are doing something right, and he was basically the entire team in those days.

If Denver does not beat those teams, they would be 30-29, which is basically the league average.

Before Tebow = 1-4
After Tebow = 6-1

Same defense, same coaches, same offensive people besides one guy.
Very easy to see HE is the reason with special mention for John Fox for and OC for modifying their offense a little bit to give tebow the best chance to have success.

Earl was 63% for his career, so correct he was a winner. Another good game manager.

[FUDU]

Hiko is correct.

The combined record of the teams Denver has rode a 5 game winning streak over is 25-34 IIRC.

....and winning is such a subjective and fickle argument. Mike Vick was considered a winner before he went to prison, why? He never won squat in terms of championships or a significant % of games he played in. Lots of QB fits that description, including John Elway himself (RE: championships, but how quick we are to forget his 0-3 record in SBs before the coach and RB showed up, record setting SB losses I might add).

The whole point being stop pretending to be objectively watching the games Tebow is playing in and at the same time claim HE is a winner or HE is the reason for Denver's relative success to this point.

EARL MORRALL WAS A WINNER!

I do not remember Mike Vick being considered a winner, but more of an incredible athlete who tried to rely on his athletic ability versus studying the game. Elway would of been a winner in my book without the 2 wins. Getting to the Super Bowl 3 times means your are doing something right, and he was basically the entire team in those days.

If Denver does not beat those teams, they would be 30-29, which is basically the league average.

Before Tebow = 1-4
After Tebow = 6-1

Same defense, same coaches, same offensive people besides one guy.
Very easy to see HE is the reason with special mention for John Fox for and OC for modifying their offense a little bit to give tebow the best chance to have success.

Earl was 63% for his career, so correct he was a winner. Another good game manager.

LMAO, talk about missing the EARL MORRALL POINT.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/schedule/_/name/den/denver-broncos

Read over that link carefully and tell me what you see. There are two points I am making with it. I'll give you a hint to one of them...that you're either blind or BSing about watching Denver games this season.

[hiko]

As I tell my wife, you can't win an argument with a stupid person, because they're too dumb to realize when they're wrong.

The argument that he's a "winner" isn't even an argument. You can say it until you're blue in the face, but it's just dumb. It's like saying he's "zen" or he's "supercalafragilisticexpialadocius". It means nothing.

Florida didn't win because Tebow's a "winner". They won because they were loaded with talent at every position. They won a NC with Chris Leak too.

Denver isn't winning because Tebow's a "winner". They're winning because of their Defense and their Charmin-soft schedule. Neither team won a damn thing due to Tebow being a "winner".

You could say that Tom Brady is a "winner". Does he win because he's a "winner". No, he wins because he's very accurate and is good at reading defenses and has a good arm and makes good decisions. There are tangible, measurable things that helps his team to win. Clearly, the team needs his skill set in order to be successful.

What is Tebow's skill set that the Broncos can't do without?

Does he limit mistakes? Yes. He does that well. He doesn't get many opportunities to make mistakes, but the coaching staff is playing it smart that way.

Can he run the ball well for a QB? Yes. He does that well. He'd be valuable in certain packages on a good team.

Everything else... blech.

Denver is on a roll right now, and if they want to believe it's because they're getting laid, or not getting laid, or wearing women's underwear, or starting an option QB, then good for them. But Tebow is way down on the list of why this team is winning, and him getting all the credit is beyond frustrating. It's like watching the 2000 Ravens and having the whole world fall in love with Trent Dilfer.

[Lubber]

LMAO, talk about missing the EARL MORRALL POINT.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/schedule/_/name/den/denver-broncos

Read over that link carefully and tell me what you see. There are two points I am making with it. I'll give you a hint to one of them...that you're either blind or BSing about watching Denver games this season.

I did not miss the point at all, Earl was a very good manager of the game for his day..

Thanks for the link, it tells me that the Broncos would be 9-3 or 10-2 if Tebow is starting all year.

[FUDU]

No the point RE: Earl was that the 72 Dolphins went undefeated regardless of whether Griese (HOFr) or Earl were QB, meaning that team had many pieces to their success (also back then the QB position was not as crucial in terms of top notch play to achieve ultimate success). Earl and Bob that year both benefited from a dominant rushing attack, there was little else to do but manage the game. I mean the guy was known as the greatest back up of all time....yeah real winner.

The link shows exactly how similar Denver's results are this season with Orton or Tebow as QB. Games led by Orton were all decided by 5pts or less (minus 1 blowout loss). Games led by Tebow have all been decided by 3pts or less (minus one 7pt win & a also a blowout loss). IOW they are a team in which the slightest imperfections can impact their winning or losing from week to week. Not to mention it shows the below average record of the teams they have beat in the past 5 weeks.

[Lubber]

No the point RE: Earl was that the 72 Dolphins went undefeated regardless of whether Griese (HOFr) or Earl were QB, meaning that team had many pieces to their success (also back then the QB position was not as crucial in terms of top notch play to achieve ultimate success). Earl and Bob that year both benefited from a dominant rushing attack, there was little else to do but manage the game. I mean the guy was known as the greatest back up of all time....yeah real winner.

The link shows exactly how similar Denver's results are this season with Orton or Tebow as QB. Games led by Orton were all decided by 5pts or less (minus 1 blowout loss). Games led by Tebow have all been decided by 3pts or less (minus one 7pt win & a also a blowout loss). IOW they are a team in which the slightest imperfections can impact their winning or losing from week to week. Not to mention it shows the below average record of the teams they have beat in the past 5 weeks.

Well, for a backup, he was also a good starter winning 63 percent of his games that he started.

The biggest difference between those first games with Orton ? Turnovers! Limit your turnovers and you are going to have a better chance to win your games. Good QBs/teams find ways to win those close games.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Griese should be real high on any list of short, avg, QB's who won a SB because of his surrounding cast

[pup]

So regret fathering this thread.

[motherscratcher]

Griese should be real high on any list of short, avg, QB's who won a SB because of his surrounding cast

Fuck that noise, Griese is a WINNER!

[FUDU]

Just be a dead beat dad pup and pretend it doesn't exist.

[leadpipe]

He was a winner in college cause he had talent around him AND he played extremely well.

He's winning in the pros because of the talent around him and.......until today, this part of the equation was missing.

And to win in the future with any consistency you need both.

His future and his "winning" will both be dicatated by how well he PLAYS.

Period.

There's no magic dust.

This being said, today, he played that position about as well as you can - at least in regard to what he was asked to do. Damn guy put the game winner right on Thomas' hands with a few minutes left before he dropped it and they had to kick a field goal.

"Game managers" and "not turning it over" aren't nearly enough. This is why for every cat that "game manages" a team to the Super Bowl, there's about 30 guys that take their team there.

[hiko]

So regret fathering this thread.

I so regret getting pulled into it again and again.

Done with Tebow conversation - I'm just glad he's Denver's debate.

[leadpipe]

So regret fathering this thread.

I so regret getting pulled into it again and again.

Done with Tebow conversation - I'm just glad he's Denver's debate.

Hiko oh great one, you will not be allowed to surrender, for the power of Tebow will bring you back.

[justmebd]

I take solace in the fact that every time Tebow wins, John Elway cries. And anything that makes John Elway cry is a good thing.

Fuck Denver, I still haven't forgiven that pansy team for all the misery they put me through in the 80s. That kick was wide right.

[Lubber]

Griese should be real high on any list of short, avg, QB's who won a SB because of his surrounding cast

Fuck that noise, Griese is a WINNER!

Correct, almost 63 percent like your boy Earl. If you have a solid ground game and solid defense, you do not need an Aaron Rodgers to save your team every week. If the Ravens had one of these guys the last 10 years, they would have at least another ring. Flacco was supposed to be their guy, but he makes too many mistakes when it counts and needs to become more consistent. If you have no ground game and your defense is average, then, yes Tebow is not your guy and you better get Aaron Rodgers (he is probably the only QB who would have GB undefeated this year without a ground game and with the poor defensive play they have had so far.)

[FUDU]

Griese should be real high on any list of short, avg, QB's who won a SB because of his surrounding cast

Fuck that noise, Griese is a WINNER!

Correct, almost 63 percent like your boy Earl. If you have a solid ground game and solid defense, you do not need an Aaron Rodgers to save your team every week. If the Ravens had one of these guys the last 10 years, they would have at least another ring. Flacco was supposed to be their guy, but he makes too many mistakes when it counts and needs to become more consistent. If you have no ground game and your defense is average, then, yes Tebow is not your guy and you better get Aaron Rodgers (he is probably the only QB who would have GB undefeated this year without a ground game and with the poor defensive play they have had so far.)

Lubber I'm not trying to be a dick here (I know it just comes naturally) but have you been paying attention to the NFL for the past 7-9 years?

A solid ground game and a solid defense doesn't get it done anymore, evidenced by the fact that all the SB winners in said time frame are higher powered offenses in which passing is a significant part of their formula or THE significant part of the formula. For the love of God please don't come back with the Steelers as a counter point. Colts and Saints won with fairly average to good defenses, defenses that got their shit together for a late season/playoff run. Those Ds didn't have to be the 85 Bears b/c their offenses were so efficient and potent.

You need a solid running game and a reliable solid defense pretty much for the playoffs, for the purposes of running out the clock late in a game to secure a lead or to make a stop to get the ball back if trailing late in the game. Otherwise it is all about out scoring your opponent and making needed plays when the opportunity arises.

Tebow ball is a limited package type approach to an offense. One that is inherent to mistake free ball, with a line so fine that any lapse by the D or special teams and their season looks like 4-8 instead of 7-5. Since you brought up Rogers, if you put him on Denver they might be a 2 loss team at most and front runners for the AFC crown with that D and the success they've had running the ball, even without Tebow ground production.

[Lubber]

Lubber I'm not trying to be a dick here (I know it just comes naturally) but have you been paying attention to the NFL for the past 7-9 years?

A solid ground game and a solid defense doesn't get it done anymore, evidenced by the fact that all the SB winners in said time frame are higher powered offenses in which passing is a significant part of their formula or THE significant part of the formula. For the love of God please don't come back with the Steelers as a counter point. Colts and Saints won with fairly average to good defenses, defenses that got their shit together for a late season/playoff run. Those Ds didn't have to be the 85 Bears b/c their offenses were so efficient and potent.

You need a solid running game and a reliable solid defense pretty much for the playoffs, for the purposes of running out the clock late in a game to secure a lead or to make a stop to get the ball back if trailing late in the game. Otherwise it is all about out scoring your opponent and making needed plays when the opportunity arises.

Tebow ball is a limited package type approach to an offense. One that is inherent to mistake free ball, with a line so fine that any lapse by the D or special teams and their season looks like 4-8 instead of 7-5. Since you brought up Rogers, if you put him on Denver they might be a 2 loss team at most and front runners for the AFC crown with that D and the success they've had running the ball, even without Tebow ground production.

I do not think you are being a dick. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect where you are coming from. Change is always hard.

The Steelers have not been the ground team like they were prior to Tomlin, so for the love of God and Tim tebow's love of God I will save you that counter.

Rodgers and any of the other Elite QBs would be great on any team (which is why they are Elite). I am not putting Tebow in the elite category (not yet anyways).

All I am saying is that if you have a very good defense and a good running game (Denver has both), and unless you can get one of those Elite QB, Tebow is going to be the man for the job. They are almost playing Tressel ball. Everybody talks about all the hits he takes because he runs so much. He has averaged the same amount of attempts per game as Cam Newton (8), but nobody mentions that about Cam. When you are a runner, you can actually see most of your hits coming and avoid any decleaters for the most part. He will take far greater hits when he is in the pocket (at least more blind sided hits). If he continues to improve his accuracy, Denver will be dangerous come playoff time.

[scrambler]

There are a lot of myths being perpetrated about TEbow and his winning. THe first one is Denver's D. They weren't good before Tebow and aren't really that good with Tebow. They're the 24th rated defense in yards allowed and the 23rd ranked defense in points allowed. That's a bad defense any way you slice it. They've played marginally better with Tebow playing qb giving up 352 yards per game down from 386 pre Tebow. They gave up 500 yards to a 2-10 team yesterday minus AP...that's called a defensive lapse, the result was a W. They played great D against KC...(who doesn't!) and that helped their stats with Tebow. He's turned the ball over 3 times in 7 starts, that is great qb play. There are 10 starting qb's in the NFL with a better qb rating than him, that's pretty good. His lack of turnovers has enabled a bad defense to play marginally better. That is the true story. He wins because he is a good football player. Although Jason Whitlock said he wins because he had two good parents unlike Vince Young and Michael Vick. That doesn't make much sense to me either. Just look on the football field for the answers. He's just good. He can pass too. He played some good games in McDaniels pass happy offense at the end of last year in his 3 starts. He's doing it with a team that wanted him to fail badly to get Andrew Luck...and it blew up in their faces. They traded by far their most talented wideout before he started his first gamne to aid that process. None of it's worked because he, himself is a good football player. Look no further than that.

[swerb]

I can't get enough of the Tebow storyline. It's compelling. The whole overly religious, pure bred, Heisman Trophy winner, can't throw the ball but makes all the big play angles. The fact everyone has an opinion on him.

The religious thing alone - I just love it. I am totally non-religious, and laugh at how divisive religion is. I can't get enough of all the shots of him praying on the sidelines and pointing to the sky.

10 TDs, 1 INT. 6-1 record. 105.4 QB rating. On pace to rush for almost 1,000 yards. Winner of 5 straight road games at Miami, Oakland, KC, San Diego and Minnesota.

The Viking game yesterday was riveting. It's like watching Tiger Woods for me. I'm not really cheering for or against the guy. I just wanna see him on the tube.

[swerb]

This is great

www.tebowing.com/

[Fire Marshall Bill]

This is great

http://www.tebowing.com/

Yes it is

Global Tebow

[Lubber]

There are a lot of myths being perpetrated about TEbow and his winning. THe first one is Denver's D. They weren't good before Tebow and aren't really that good with Tebow. They're the 24th rated defense in yards allowed and the 23rd ranked defense in points allowed. That's a bad defense any way you slice it. They've played marginally better with Tebow playing qb giving up 352 yards per game down from 386 pre Tebow. They gave up 500 yards to a 2-10 team yesterday minus AP...that's called a defensive lapse, the result was a W. They played great D against KC...(who doesn't!) and that helped their stats with Tebow. He's turned the ball over 3 times in 7 starts, that is great qb play. There are 10 starting qb's in the NFL with a better qb rating than him, that's pretty good. His lack of turnovers has enabled a bad defense to play marginally better. That is the true story. He wins because he is a good football player. Although Jason Whitlock said he wins because he had two good parents unlike Vince Young and Michael Vick. That doesn't make much sense to me either. Just look on the football field for the answers. He's just good. He can pass too. He played some good games in McDaniels pass happy offense at the end of last year in his 3 starts. He's doing it with a team that wanted him to fail badly to get Andrew Luck...and it blew up in their faces. They traded by far their most talented wideout before he started his first gamne to aid that process. None of it's worked because he, himself is a good football player. Look no further than that.

Great points Scrambler. According to some people on this board, you would think Denver's defense is the second coming of the 85 Bears. I do not agree with Whitlock either on the reason for him winning being that he has two good parents. However, I am sure that his parents have instilled in him the heart and faith to never give up no matter what people may say about him.

I simply find it very refreshing to find a genuine person with good values excelling in a league that usually garners headlines for many of it punks and thugs.

[fundamentals]

I can't get enough of the Tebow storyline. It's compelling. The whole overly religious, pure bred, Heisman Trophy winner, can't throw the ball but makes all the big play angles. The fact everyone has an opinion on him.

The religious thing alone - I just love it. I am totally non-religious, and laugh at how divisive religion is. I can't get enough of all the shots of him praying on the sidelines and pointing to the sky.

There's a good portion of people out there who don't want to see "religion". What kills me that it's ok for people to act like goofs, paint their faces, get hammered, smoked up, etc.... for a football game and act like idiots and yet many of those same folks are the ones who are against Tebow's open support for Christ. It's ok for guys to dance around and act like fools after they stopped someone after a 7 yard gain, so I don't get the angst toward him, oh check that, yes I do. It's great to watch, absolutely great to watch.

He's entitled to do what he wants and say what he wants. If you don't like it, turn the channel and move on or don't watch. That's what Christians are told all of the time when something that may offend them comes on. Not to make this out to be more than it is but the whole situation mirrors our present-day society. I hope the kid keeps winning and I hope he keeps praising Christ no matter what.

[swerb]

I want to see the guy start praying when his passes are in mid-air. The more religious output the better.

I'm not religuous, and definitely not a prude, but in a era of sports that is so money driven and laden with criminals ... there's just something about seeing this corn fed Polly Purebred out there praying his ass off that makes it all more compelling. Cause you're right Fund, it drives some people nuts. Other love it. Others have their opinions driven on him by their views on his talent, or lack thereof.

Then you've got whole angle of him winning with a 1930's offensive attack in an era dominated by record passing numbers and HoF QBs.

[fundamentals]

I'm not religuous, and definitely not a prude, but in a era of sports that is so money driven and laden with criminals ... there's just something about seeing this corn fed Polly Purebred out there praying his ass off that makes it all more compelling. Cause you're right Fund, it drives some people nuts. Other love it. Others have their opinions driven on him by their views on his talent, or lack thereof.

It's a double standard. As I stated earlier, if you don't want to hear about Christ, don't watch Tim Tebow play. Funny thing is too most people say Christ all the time, Leadpipe comes to mind immediately, and it's not a bad thing for him to say it, so why is it for Tebow?

It is also driving people nuts that the Broncos are winning. It's not divine intervention. It's the QB playing within the system his coach has set up for him and they are having success. It's a perfect storm right now and people hate it.

[Orenthal]

Others have their opinions driven on him by their views on his talent, or lack thereof.

...and still others will have their opinion driven by the overreaction of others. I'm a pretty normal guy when it comes to religion. I go to church occasionally (read 1 or 2 times a year) and usually follow those 10 rules, but am not a bible-thumper. Yet when I see the batshit crazy of the people against the guy, I can't help but to become a supporter and missionary.

[Lubber]

The crazy thing is, there are other guys in the NFL who are just as religious if not more so. Take Troy P for example. He makes the sign of the cross before every play.

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201112/nfl-star-beats-tim-tebow-most-religious-athlete-football

[motherscratcher]

I can't get enough of the Tebow storyline. It's compelling. The whole overly religious, pure bred, Heisman Trophy winner, can't throw the ball but makes all the big play angles. The fact everyone has an opinion on him.

The religious thing alone - I just love it. I am totally non-religious, and laugh at how divisive religion is. I can't get enough of all the shots of him praying on the sidelines and pointing to the sky.

There's a good portion of people out there who don't want to see "religion". What kills me that it's ok for people to act like goofs, paint their faces, get hammered, smoked up, etc.... for a football game and act like idiots and yet many of those same folks are the ones who are against Tebow's open support for Christ. It's ok for guys to dance around and act like fools after they stopped someone after a 7 yard gain, so I don't get the angst toward him, oh check that, yes I do. It's great to watch, absolutely great to watch.

He's entitled to do what he wants and say what he wants. If you don't like it, turn the channel and move on or don't watch. That's what Christians are told all of the time when something that may offend them comes on. Not to make this out to be more than it is but the whole situation mirrors our present-day society. I hope the kid keeps winning and I hope he keeps praising Christ no matter what.

I get what you're saying, but here's the thing; maybe I missed something but I don't remember anyone saying that Tebow isn't allowed to say and do and think as he wants. It's just that they are tired of it being pushed in their face. they are allowed to complain about it if they don't like it. (I'm not one of those people, BTW. I don't care one way or the other what he does.)

What these people who don't like Tebow AREN'T doing is forming groups and committees and paying polititians in Washington in an effort to tell everyone ilse that they aren't allowed to like, watch, or think about Tebow...you know, for the children.

[fundamentals]

I get what you're saying, but here's the thing; maybe I missed something but I don't remember anyone saying that Tebow isn't allowed to say and do and think as he wants. It's just that they are tired of it being pushed in their face. they are allowed to complain about it if they don't like it. (I'm not one of those people, BTW. I don't care one way or the other what he does.)

Critics should just blame the media. It's a storyline and his 15 minutes of fame has lasted longer than anyone could have imagined. As stated, if they don't like it or him, don't watch the Broncos play. He is a polarizing figure, no doubt. Guy I know who is an atheist said to me "why doesn't he make reference of the Easter Bunny or Santa every time he is on tv, those are made up characters as well". That is his opinion just as Tebow has his. If people are offended by Tebow talking about his relationship with Jesus Christ, that's their problem. People don't like to feel personal conviction when Tebow's name is uttered. Pundits feel Tebow is destined to fail both in the league and eventually, in life. There are many who don't like his ability to be genuine. They want scandal and idiocy. Those are the athletes we should applaud and hold in high esteem.

[pup]

I get what you're saying, but here's the thing; maybe I missed something but I don't remember anyone saying that Tebow isn't allowed to say and do and think as he wants. It's just that they are tired of it being pushed in their face. they are allowed to complain about it if they don't like it. (I'm not one of those people, BTW. I don't care one way or the other what he does.)

Critics should just blame the media. It's a storyline and his 15 minutes of fame has lasted longer than anyone could have imagined. As stated, if they don't like it or him, don't watch the Broncos play. He is a polarizing figure, no doubt. Guy I know who is an atheist said to me "why doesn't he make reference of the Easter Bunny or Santa every time he is on tv, those are made up characters as well". That is his opinion just as Tebow has his. If people are offended by Tebow talking about his relationship with Jesus Christ, that's their problem. People don't like to feel personal conviction when Tebow's name is uttered. Pundits feel Tebow is destined to fail both in the league and eventually, in life. There are many who don't like his ability to be genuine. They want scandal and idiocy. Those are the athletes we should applaud and hold in high esteem.

And if you don't like people complaining about it, don't watch or read them.

See how that works?

[fundamentals]

And if you don't like people complaining about it, don't watch or read them.

See how that works?

Pup, your authoritarian presence is always appreciated.

Regardless of your stance, the guy is doing well and his team is doing well.

[pup]

And if you don't like people complaining about it, don't watch or read them.

See how that works?

Pup, your authoritarian presence is always appreciated.

Regardless of your stance, the guy is doing well and his team is doing well.

Yes.

[scrambler]

My favorite part of the whole Tebow thing is it is once again tossing the NFL scouting combine under the bus and what is most important is how you play football with pads and a helmet on and not how you play in your shorts and tee-shirt. The football aspect of it and trying to watch the talking heaads explain it as the wins pile up is priceless. It pains me to say it, but living in the Rockies, I look forward to the Denver games on TV every week now!! IF you're a sports fan, it really is must watch stuff now. ANd the best part is as everyone offers Tebow opinions is that no one knows the end result of what he will turn out to be football wise. Tebow has made the Broncos fun, Newton has made the Panthers fun. Robert Griffin has to become a Brown, period.

[pup]

He was a freaking first round pick. How does that make the combine stupid?

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Tebow has made the Broncos fun, Newton has made the Panthers fun.

And Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Ben Rottenburger, and Joe Flacco look to be busy come late January, unlike Tebow and Newton. But at least they're 'fun' to watch.

[e0y2e3]

Cam at least has an elite skill set you can envision turning into top of the league caliber.

Tebow is a fucking full-back that people like slopping because it's a cute Christian Story.

Guy's defense is scoring 7 points a week for him, hell of a handicap to have going for you.

By next year coordinators will have figured out exactly what they want to do with the modern version of the wishbone and Tebow will return to uselessness.

[e0y2e3]

And Flacco's name doesn't deserve being anywhere near any of the other elite QBs. He's as meh as they come.

[pup]

And Flacco's name doesn't deserve being anywhere near any of the other elite QBs. He's as meh as they come.

And the reason their season ends in January and has no shot at Feb.

[motherscratcher]

I get what you're saying, but here's the thing; maybe I missed something but I don't remember anyone saying that Tebow isn't allowed to say and do and think as he wants. It's just that they are tired of it being pushed in their face. they are allowed to complain about it if they don't like it. (I'm not one of those people, BTW. I don't care one way or the other what he does.)

Critics should just blame the media. It's a storyline and his 15 minutes of fame has lasted longer than anyone could have imagined. As stated, if they don't like it or him, don't watch the Broncos play. He is a polarizing figure, no doubt. Guy I know who is an atheist said to me "why doesn't he make reference of the Easter Bunny or Santa every time he is on tv, those are made up characters as well". That is his opinion just as Tebow has his. If people are offended by Tebow talking about his relationship with Jesus Christ, that's their problem. People don't like to feel personal conviction when Tebow's name is uttered. Pundits feel Tebow is destined to fail both in the league and eventually, in life. There are many who don't like his ability to be genuine. They want scandal and idiocy. Those are the athletes we should applaud and hold in high esteem.

And if you don't like people complaining about it, don't watch or read them.

See how that works?

Yes, exactly this. I don't understand complaining about people complaining about Tebow. In the end it's all just giving opnions and talking.

I guess what I was getting at was the difference between your example of people telling chritians to just turn the channal if they don't like what is on TV. I think this is a bad example because there are groups of christians that are devoting their lives to trying to legislate what I can and can't watch on TV in my house. Nobody is trying to legislate Tebow away. But bitch and complain about him? Sure. Everyyone is allowed to do that and many people have chosen to. You might disagree with those people,. That's fine.

I know those people are out there that think Tebow will fail at life. I hope he doesn't and I have absolutely no reason to think that he will. He seems like a genuinely good guy and I wish him the best. I will be pleased if he proves me wrong when I say that he is not destined to be a successful NFL QB.

I like my brother a lot too. He's a great guy. I also don't think he's going to be a very good NFL QB. It's not personal.

I like Lubber too. Nothing I say to him is personal at all. I just disagree with his ridiculous argument that Tebow is a "winner" and can lead the Broncos to the Super Bowl.

If Tebow ever does that I'll admit that I was wrong and if I see Lubber at the bar i'll tell him so and buy him a beer. Then I'll kick him in the nuts. But that's just because

tnwerjkl;
thejwklt

[Lubber]

Cam at least has an elite skill set you can envision turning into top of the league caliber.

Tebow is a fucking full-back that people like slopping because it's a cute Christian Story.

Guy's defense is scoring 7 points a week for him, hell of a handicap to have going for you.

By next year coordinators will have figured out exactly what they want to do with the modern version of the wishbone and Tebow will return to uselessness.

It is not so much about the Christian story (for me at least) but about the underdog, the guy everyone thinks will fail, the guys most people actually want to fail, the guy who does not do it the NFL-way, succeeding because he never listens to his critics and works his ass off each day.

Cam is definitely a better talent (Most #1 overall picks are the top of the crop), however, he does have 14 more INTs than Tebow.

Denver's defense has 3 TDs this year - Baltimore has 4, so dhat hoes Green Bay - does that mean GB's defense is winning the games this year instead of Rodgers? In addition, Denver's defense is 25th in allowing points, 13 spots worse than the Brownies. That argument does not hold any water.

Have you watched any of the games he has played in (especially this week). It is not like they line up in the Oklahoma T formation and run bone every play. However, that little wrinkle makes D-Coordinators spend many more hours each week re-teaching linemen and linebackers how to defend it. The difference between that and the Wildcat? Most of the guys lined up in the Wildcat are not threats to throw the ball.

[Lubber]

And Flacco's name doesn't deserve being anywhere near any of the other elite QBs. He's as meh as they come.

Put Tebow on the Ravens with their running game and defense? Super Bowl Contender for sure.

[Triple-S]

And Flacco's name doesn't deserve being anywhere near any of the other elite QBs. He's as meh as they come.

Put Tebow on the Ravens with their running game and defense? Super Bowl Contender for sure.

With the Stillers in their division?

[e0y2e3]

Nope, sorry, I've watched four Tebow games now and he's a shitty passer that is getting away with running around and dumping off shitty passes that are being broken for long gains.

He has no touch, his accuracy is feh, he's a bad QB on the whole.

A bad QB who is THREE DEFENSIVE TOUCHDOWNS away from THREE LOSES. His defense has played much better since he took over, Willis is going off and he has literally been bailed out three times.

This isn't the Packers winning by 28 instead of 21, this is you and every other idiot screaming about wins being all that matters when he has been gifted those wins.

Cam is a real quarterback, Tebow is a fasination that is dated.

If he were a good QB I'd have no problem admitting as such, I don't hate him because he's some Geezes Fanboi, I don't like being told how awesome he is every single freaking week when I watch the games and he just isn't.

It's one of the biggest utilizations of smoke and mirrors I've ever seen in sports.