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Browns/Giants talking trade? Schaeffer for....?

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Browns/Giants talking trade? Schaeffer for....?

Unread postby consigliere » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:52 pm

http://mvn.com/nfl-giants/2007/04/30/gi ... her-trade/

Saw something elsewhere that maybe we are asking for their d-lineman Cofield?
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Unread postby StewieG » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:55 pm

According to the scout site, the deal is dead. We wanted either a 4th round pick in this year's draft, or a 3rd round pick in next year's, and they didn't even bother to call back with a counter-offer.

Honestly, Cofield would have been a nice pickup, but short of that, I'd rather keep Shaffer. I'm excited to see how this offensive line plays out. It might actually be good for once!
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Unread postby pup » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:09 pm

Honestly, Cofield would have been a nice pickup, but short of that, I'd rather keep Shaffer. I'm excited to see how this offensive line plays out. It might actually be good for once!


Agreed. If they did all of this moving around to simply upgrade from Shafer to Thomas and Frye to Quinn, even I would not be happy. The reason to draft JT was to solidify the entire line. Trading Shafer would still leave us with Mother Tucker and Andruzzi on the right side, which would not be good.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:38 pm

Much rather keep Schaffer. He's overpaid, but I think he'll fit well at RT. Having him makes me feel pretty good OL-wise. I think we might actually have some decent depth this year.

I keep hearing the Bentley may be ahead of schedule and better off than we think. Anyone else seen or heard anything to back this up?
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Unread postby mistero » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:56 pm

Sure hope this blows over. To add Thomas and then lose Shaffer makes zero sense.

One nugget I'll throw out there though is their 1st rounder from last year, Mathias Kiwanuka is being switched from undersized DE to oversized OLB. In the 4-3 that looks like a wasted pick.

That would be the one guy I would want in return for Shaffer.
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Unread postby Guest » Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:00 pm

It's not like we're so rich at OL that we should be trading starters. We have both quantity and quality at OL for the first time since Napoleon was a boy... I see no reason to go blowing that up just because some of them are overpaid.
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Unread postby swerb » Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:57 pm

Hiko wrote:It's not like we're so rich at OL that we should be trading starters. We have both quantity and quality at OL for the first time since Napoleon was a boy... I see no reason to go blowing that up just because some of them are overpaid.

Rack the sporking shit out of that comment. I'd much rather be forced to cut a NFL caliber lineman than deal one.
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Unread postby Lebowski » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:53 pm

Grossi just reported on STO that Shaffer's agent said he has no interest in playing RT and would like to be traded.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:36 pm

Grossi just reported on STO that Shaffer's agent said he has no interest in playing RT and would like to be traded.


Boo fucking hoo. I didn't want to watch him struggle at left tackle for 16 games either, but I did.
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Unread postby Dozen » Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:40 pm

Pup wrote:
Grossi just reported on STO that Shaffer's agent said he has no interest in playing RT and would like to be traded.


Boo fucking hoo. I didn't want to watch him struggle at left tackle for 16 games either, but I did.


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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:40 pm

Lebowski wrote:Grossi just reported on STO that Shaffer's agent said he has no interest in playing RT and would like to be traded.


Great, only took 48 hours for some BS to come out in Berea to take some of the thrill from this wonderful weekend we just enjoyed.

Is this something that could fester into a bigger issue where you need to deal him by training camp? Or, is this something peeps expect to go by the wayside rather quickly because Shaff is just over-reacting because his pride took a hit with the JT pick and he is acting like a vagina?
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Unread postby Dozen » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:49 pm

Do we seriously care WTF he thinks? He was horrible and look at his contract! Let the F'n stiff find a new sucker to take on his salary.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue May 01, 2007 12:40 am

Lebowski wrote:Grossi just reported on STO that Shaffer's agent said he has no interest in playing RT and would like to be traded.


After last season, who would be interested in playing him at LT? I can see a team who has a lefty QB taking an interest. He probably blames all of his poor play on the LG.

If Schaffer wants to play LT somewhere else then he obviously doesn't care about winning because the Ws will be harder to come by with him at LT.

He's still making plenty of jack and isn't taking a pay cut to move to RT. Unless he starts being a royal pain in the butt to everyone else, he can move to RT.
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Unread postby Dozen » Tue May 01, 2007 7:13 am

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Unread postby yogi » Tue May 01, 2007 7:20 am

I love the line where Shaffer's agent says he is attractive to the market because his salary would be relatively low.

Because we paid the friggin signing bonus!

And he goes on to saying the Browns can afford to take the salary cap hit.

F-U.

Not your friggin call.

This is your call, talk to your client and tell him to man up and compete.

With Thomas, with Tucker. he's getting paid an awful lot of money. I don't beleive any of his money is tied up into incentives for playing LT.

So, shut the f up and play and try to make this OL one of the best in the league!
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Unread postby Dozen » Tue May 01, 2007 7:22 am

Because the bonuses already have been paid by the Browns, Shaffer would take up less space on a traded team's salary cap than he does with the Browns. Trading Shaffer would result in a "significant" hit on the Browns' salary cap - upwards of $8 million - but Herman believes the Browns have the room to absorb it.


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Unread postby consigliere » Tue May 01, 2007 7:36 am

"At this time, we are going to maintain our depth at the position," Browns General Manager Phil Savage said in an e-mail response.


He's gone.
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Unread postby swerb » Tue May 01, 2007 8:08 am

Couldn't this SOB at least let us enjoy the buzz of the draft for a couple days before griping?

I still don't want to see Shaffer go anywhere. But I do respect the fact that Savage is man enough to potentially admit a mistake in backing up the Brinks Truck for this guy.

IMHO, I think if Butch had done the same thing with the Shaffer contract, taking Joe Thomas wouldn't have been an option.
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Unread postby jb » Tue May 01, 2007 9:00 am

Pup wrote:
Grossi just reported on STO that Shaffer's agent said he has no interest in playing RT and would like to be traded.


Boo fucking hoo. I didn't want to watch him struggle at left tackle for 16 games either, but I did.


Rack that.

What's next, Frye complaining?
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Unread postby jb » Tue May 01, 2007 9:17 am

To me, this is by far the most interesting statement we've learned:

Quoth the PD today in the link shared above:

During the draft, Savage and coach Romeo Crennel both said Thomas would be given the opportunity to win the starting job at left tackle. Crennel hinted Shaffer could compete with Thomas, but also could be tried at right guard, where a starting position is open.

"I'm sure Kevin would prefer to remain at left tackle and if not there, then right tackle," Herman said. "And if it wasn't meant to be there, no hard feelings, and he'd prefer to move on and play somewhere else. But it takes two to tango."

The Browns said they expect Ryan Tucker to return as their right tackle. Other tackles on the roster include Kelly Butler, who started five games at right tackle when Tucker left for an emotional problem, and Nat Dorsey.


So they are counting on Mother Tucker?

Hmmmmm.....

The truest quote is "it takes two to tango".

No way Phil is gonna take the cap hit just to lesson our depth to sooth hurt feelings. Maybe in future years when the acceleration is lessoned by the number of prorated years he's been on the team. In fact, that's what'll likely happen based on the assumption Thomas is what he was drafted to be.
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Unread postby Guest » Tue May 01, 2007 10:35 am

If I were GM....

Here's your options, Kevin.

1. You can compete for the starting RT position.

2. You can be our backup LT.

3. You can sit at home and make yourself starting LT on Madden '08.
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Unread postby Wolfy » Tue May 01, 2007 11:47 am

I watched a Crennel interview last year where he was pretty down on Tucker because he felt that he couldn’t trust Tucker to be there through-out the season but said we would at least give him one more shot to prove the mental issues are in the past and that he could be trusted. He said we could even go the route of him being a back up at the RT... Sounds to me like Schaeffer will be the RT like it or not. I also heard some BS that Thomas could play LG first year like J. Ogden I believe was the comparison.

Bottom line is Schaeffer was and is in our plans...but if they get some good offer for him (two defensive linemen) to absorb his all of a sudden bad contract they would have to consider...and it would fill the other need... D line.

I also read on a Giants site that there was another linemen in that deal...Is there a Thomas on there DL?
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue May 01, 2007 1:21 pm

Seems to me that Schaffer's agent is indicating that his client will play RT but doesn't want to move to RG.

"I'm sure Kevin would prefer to remain at left tackle and if not there, then right tackle," Herman said. "And if it wasn't meant to be there, no hard feelings, and he'd prefer to move on and play somewhere else. But it takes two to tango."


Sounds like he's saying that if things don't work out at RT then he'd like to move to another team. If he can do well at the position, and I think he can, then I'd rather move Tucker to RG or put someone else there. No reason to sacrifice OL depth or get Schaffer unhappy if you can avoid it and if he gets the job done at RT.
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Unread postby Wolfy » Tue May 01, 2007 1:38 pm

I think everyone agrees that we should keep Schaeffer and put him at the RT position. The argument is trade or no trade. I am all for keeping him but if a good proposition comes along we would be foolish not to listen and or get rid of that contract which all of a sudden looks a little big for a RT. I think it all comes down to LeCharles. Is he going to be ready? We shall see sooner rather than later with this trade rumor. I wonder what the new standard is for free-agent RT’s?
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Unread postby happybluebird » Tue May 01, 2007 3:17 pm

Image Now this annoys me to no end! If Shaffer had done his job last year at LT then we wouldn't have had to go out and spend a third overall first round draft pick to get someone who could handle that position. You would think he would be as excited as the rest of us are, but NOOOOOO he's comes out and acts like a big whiney baby! Image

I want him to swallow his pride and play wherever this team needs him to. The right side still needs work.
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Unread postby Wolfy » Tue May 01, 2007 4:22 pm

Yeah, I think that is the general consensus around these parts anyway. Suck it up and play the right side...preferably at tackle.
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Unread postby pod2dawg » Sat May 05, 2007 1:59 pm

" friends" close to the siuation have indicated to me this was primarily Shaffer's agent "fishing" always looking to explore advancing his client's income if not immediately, then for down the road. Schaffer ideally wants to be a LT ($) , but really is a team guy, likes it here & would play RT for now no problem. RG , he would request a trade , nothing personal, just protecting his interests.
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Unread postby Dozen » Sat May 05, 2007 2:02 pm

Id rather him try and PROTECT our QB, F his "interests", he gets a nice paycheck........shut up and play.
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Unread postby jb » Sun May 06, 2007 11:17 am

pod2dawg wrote:" friends" close to the siuation have indicated to me this was primarily Shaffer's agent "fishing" always looking to explore advancing his client's income if not immediately, then for down the road. Schaffer ideally wants to be a LT ($) , but really is a team guy, likes it here & would play RT for now no problem. RG , he would request a trade , nothing personal, just protecting his interests.


That maske sense, but won't make him many friend sin C-town.

Pluto says today that the team is looking at him as RT and T only. No consideration for OG.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Sun May 06, 2007 11:39 am

Dozen wrote:Id rather him try and PROTECT our QB, F his "interests", he gets a nice paycheck........shut up and play.


I really can't blame the guy if he wants to remain a tackle. This is still a business and guards don't get the money that tackles get. A move could hurt his next contract.
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Unread postby furls » Sun May 06, 2007 12:01 pm

Elite guards do get tackle money (Steinbach and co.). Is he afraid he wont be an elite guard?

Personally, I don't think that you just take tackles and make them guards or centers and make them guards etc.

If you have a guy that is competent at a position than you let him play there. Believe it or not, there is a distinct difference between all three of the offensive line positions, hell, there is a difference between playing on the right side or left side too. Particularly if your team goes strong right or strong left or two tights a lot.

I love the mentality that folks have about just shifting guys all over the line, just because you are a good tackle doesnt mean you will be a good guard and just because you are a decent LT doesnt mean you will be a good RT (but that is a much safer bet). Frankly, I think Schaffer should shut the fuck up and play wherever they stick his ass, and if he had been good at his job then the Browns would not have had to (wisely) spend a #3 on a LT.
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Unread postby Dozen » Sun May 06, 2007 12:06 pm

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Unread postby jfiling » Sun May 06, 2007 5:05 pm

Great post, Furls. I completely agree on every point.

Considering the market and his contract, I don't see what Shaffer is afraid of. Worst case is he shows he's a great right guard, which means I'll find him in my deodorant aisle.
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Unread postby jb » Mon May 07, 2007 4:29 pm

Furls wrote:
Personally, I don't think that you just take tackles and make them guards or centers and make them guards etc.

If you have a guy that is competent at a position than you let him play there. Believe it or not, there is a distinct difference between all three of the offensive line positions, hell, there is a difference between playing on the right side or left side too. Particularly if your team goes strong right or strong left or two tights a lot.

I love the mentality that folks have about just shifting guys all over the line, just because you are a good tackle doesnt mean you will be a good guard and just because you are a decent LT doesnt mean you will be a good RT (but that is a much safer bet).


Furls, you are spot on.

I've been hearing for years now how all we need to do is move Mother CooKoo to guard, a position that AFAIK, he didn't play in college or the NFL for a single down.

I'll take your trusism and say that when different players play in differen schemes it can make all the difference. I think Jeff Faine is a good example of that. Put him in the Browns' man on man scheme where we were emphasizing huge linemen and he's so-so. Put him in NOLA w/ their movement and he's pro bowl alternate.

But dude, you are spot on. Guards maul with leverage or run, tackles push out and influence. They don't lock up too much on Sunday as much as on Saturday. Not sayin' never, just not as much. And the drops from either side can be a big dif.

I think Shaffer can move to RT, but I also think he may have strength issues. I'm thinking once he's been here a few more seasons and the cap hit isn't so massive to move him he'll be an upgrade sitiation for a more physical ORT. For now, he's more than fine at ORT. The big factors for this line for 07 will be Shaffer's move, McKinney's health, and JT's adjustment to Sundays.

And health.
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Unread postby rawdawgexpress » Mon May 07, 2007 6:22 pm

IIRC Ogden had to start at Guard then only switched to LT after his first year. Yet our man Thomas can easily slip into the OLT slot? Why not him at RT and keep Shaffer at LT? Or is Thomas so much better than Shaffer that it hardly matters if he starts at LT- because Shaffer sucks so badly to begin with?

Anyways, I still find it difficult to imagine we start with Frye vs. Pitt. Yet all I've been seeing in the papers and on the net is that Frye will likley start game 1. But didn't we all see Anderson outplay him last year? I'm going on record that Anderson gets the nod after TC.
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Unread postby furls » Mon May 07, 2007 7:20 pm

From what I have seen of Thomas, he is a LT. Plain and simple. It is the most important spot on the OLine (in pass protection), so I would have to think that with all things equal, you don't move him, you move the other guy (Schaffer).

Schaffer is not really a LT and that is the mistake the Browns made when they got him. He was a LT on the Falcons (with a Left handed QB), that makes him more of a Right tackle with reverse footwork. In most cases, left tackles are on an island (maybe running back help) with a teams best pass rusher (guys like Wimbley, Peppers, etc.).

Thomas seems to have the footwork to play with the elite DEs, but it is hard to see how it will work out for him until the season starts. He did have a hell of a game against Arkansas (Jamaal Anderson). The Browns drafted him to play Left Tackle (if not now, eventually), so I say move Schaffer back to the strong side, where he was very successful in Atlanta, and put your future LT at LT and let him learn at the school of hard knocks. The only place he is going to learn to block the leagues elite pass rushers is going against them, and he may as well get his learning done while the rest of this young team is maturing so that way we won't have a variable at LT in 2008. By the end of the year we should know alot about Joe Thomas' future at LT.
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Unread postby Dozen » Mon May 07, 2007 8:55 pm

Why not him at RT and keep Shaffer at LT?


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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue May 08, 2007 1:17 am

Dozen wrote:
Why not him at RT and keep Shaffer at LT?


Great idea! then when Quinn takes over maybe Frye can go to halfback! Image


Or maybe Quinn could throw left handed. That would make Schaffer a better fit at LT as Furls stated above.

Thomas should start at LT from day one. With Thomas as Schaffer as the bookends, I feel pretty good about the line this year.
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Unread postby Dozen » Tue May 08, 2007 11:14 am

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:
Dozen wrote:
Why not him at RT and keep Shaffer at LT?


Great idea! then when Quinn takes over maybe Frye can go to halfback! Image


Or maybe Quinn could throw left handed. That would make Schaffer a better fit at LT as Furls stated above.

Thomas should start at LT from day one. With Thomas as Schaffer as the bookends, I feel pretty good about the line this year.


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