Butt One of many other hijacked Cam Newton threads

[JacksonDysonJackson]

So, when Nawrocki wrote those same things about Jimmy Clausen, was that racist or just prejudice against ugly people?

[motherscratcher]

Like a 12 year old, I find any joke about someone's balls to be hilarious. Regardless of race.

I'll be a little clearer as to my thoughts so there is no misunderstanding. I believe racism exists. I believe it existed back in the 70's and 80's to a more significant degree, especially when we are talking about the attitude toward black QBs. I believe, based on what I've read (a lot of it here) that Warren Moon played in the CFL due to a fact that, to a large degree, a lot of people didn't think a black man could play QB in the NFL. I think those people are obviously wrong. I think the NFL would have been a better league if not for these prejudices. I think that it's likely that a lot of really good football players probably got screwed because of this bullshit thinking.

I don't think that the fact the Doug Williams was drafted 17th is somehow evidence that racism didn't exist in the NFL back then, especially as it pertains to black QBs.

What I can't say is that the same prejudice against black QBs still exists today. Maybe it does in some places, but it doesn't seem to in the places that matter...the people who are scouting and drafting NFL players. Maybe I'm wrong, but race just doesn't seem to be a big part of that anymore. Maybe it still exists to a degree in some segments of the fan base. But, I'm skeptical that they have any influence.

What I can't say though, is regardless of whether you agree with his assesment, is that this Narwocki guy was influenced by Cam Newton's color. That has nothing to do with whether he's right in his assessment. I've already said I'm skeptical. I'm just saying that I currently have no reason to suspect that his conclusions were racially motivated in any way, despite what Warren Moon had to endure 34 years ago.

And, jokes about balls, whether they be black, white, blue, or red will always be funny. Always.

[FUDU]

I still think it's funny I really took SD's Naworki as a Jaworski typo. So I owe SD the my bad on that one.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Here's my take on racism

When people quit making it an issue, it will cease to become an issue

Profound, huh?

[hermanfontenot]

Also the best part of the terrible Williams argument is that he had to leave the NFL because the Bucs refused to pay him more than back-up money.

Hugh Culverhouse didn't pay anyone, black or white.

And Williams, frankly, wasn't that good as a Buccaneer anyway.

[hiko]

I think some of the point has been lost.

There is no arguing that Warren Moon's career wasn't affected by a racial stereotype. Well, you could argue it, but you'd be wrong.

That however has nothing to do with the assertion that some guy's criticisms about Cam Newton must be racially motivated. Due to his/his family's shady dealings, the accusations against him, his obvious potential, his Heisman and National Championship year being his only big season... white, black, blue, or mauve, that guy's gonna draw a shitload of controversy while some boring-ass do-nothing prospect like Gabbert will get ignored. Remember the shitstorm around Tebow last year? Throw in some assertions that his father demanded money for him to go to Florida. Even the tabloids would line up outside his door.

Assuming the writer is racist for having issues with Newton is bullshit. Maybe he just doesn't like guys from the SEC. Or guys that are taller than him. Or guys that are cocky. Or guys with the name Cam. Maybe he doesn't like Cam's socks, or his agent, or his cologne. Maybe he hates whatever church Cam goes to, or who he voted for in the last election. Maybe Cam fucked his sister or his sister's hot friend. Or maybe he just doesn't like Cam Newton's game.

I dunno and I duncare. But dude's allowed to rip a draft prospect and it don't have to mean it's about who's got more pigment.

People may have a million different reasons for liking/hating Cam and/or his game, but the simplest and easiest answer for why Newton (like Tebow before him) is getting so much scrutiny is that he's a high high profile guy that has boom-or-bust written all over him, and every Tom, Dick, & Harry wanna get their 2 cents in about him now so they can say "Told ya so" later.

[SoulDawg74]

I think some of the point has been lost.

There is no arguing that Warren Moon's career wasn't affected by a racial stereotype. Well, you could argue it, but you'd be wrong.

That however has nothing to do with the assertion that some guy's criticisms about Cam Newton must be racially motivated. Due to his/his family's shady dealings, the accusations against him, his obvious potential, his Heisman and National Championship year being his only big season... white, black, blue, or mauve, that guy's gonna draw a shitload of controversy while some boring-ass do-nothing prospect like Gabbert will get ignored. Remember the shitstorm around Tebow last year? Throw in some assertions that his father demanded money for him to go to Florida. Even the tabloids would line up outside his door.

Assuming the writer is racist for having issues with Newton is bullshit. Maybe he just doesn't like guys from the SEC. Or guys that are taller than him. Or guys that are cocky. Or guys with the name Cam. Maybe he doesn't like Cam's socks, or his agent, or his cologne. Maybe he hates whatever church Cam goes to, or who he voted for in the last election. Maybe Cam fucked his sister or his sister's hot friend. Or maybe he just doesn't like Cam Newton's game.

I dunno and I duncare. But dude's allowed to rip a draft prospect and it don't have to mean it's about who's got more pigment.

People may have a million different reasons for liking/hating Cam and/or his game, but the simplest and easiest answer for why Newton (like Tebow before him) is getting so much scrutiny is that he's a high high profile guy that has boom-or-bust written all over him, and every Tom, Dick, & Harry wanna get their 2 cents in about him now so they can say "Told ya so" later.

SD:

RACK Yourself that was an excellent take .

Butt allways remember just because your paranoid still doesn't mean people ain't pickin on ya .


SoulDawg

[SoulDawg74]

Like a 12 year old, I find any joke about someone's balls to be hilarious. Regardless of race.

I'll be a little clearer as to my thoughts so there is no misunderstanding. I believe racism exists. I believe it existed back in the 70's and 80's to a more significant degree, especially when we are talking about the attitude toward black QBs. I believe, based on what I've read (a lot of it here) that Warren Moon played in the CFL due to a fact that, to a large degree, a lot of people didn't think a black man could play QB in the NFL. I think those people are obviously wrong. I think the NFL would have been a better league if not for these prejudices. I think that it's likely that a lot of really good football players probably got screwed because of this bullshit thinking.

I don't think that the fact the Doug Williams was drafted 17th is somehow evidence that racism didn't exist in the NFL back then, especially as it pertains to black QBs.

What I can't say is that the same prejudice against black QBs still exists today. Maybe it does in some places, but it doesn't seem to in the places that matter...the people who are scouting and drafting NFL players. Maybe I'm wrong, but race just doesn't seem to be a big part of that anymore. Maybe it still exists to a degree in some segments of the fan base. But, I'm skeptical that they have any influence.

What I can't say though, is regardless of whether you agree with his assesment, is that this Narwocki guy was influenced by Cam Newton's color. That has nothing to do with whether he's right in his assessment. I've already said I'm skeptical. I'm just saying that I currently have no reason to suspect that his conclusions were racially motivated in any way, despite what Warren Moon had to endure 34 years ago.

And, jokes about balls, whether they be black, white, blue, or red will always be funny. Always.

SD:

Mutha there is a big difference between reading about history with your Cheerios enroute to go play your N tendo , and living that part of history in which we're both referencing .

During that span , I saw this country change form legalized Jim Crow and out right gubermint sanctioned wrong doings toward American citizens to seeing a Black President elected 50 Years after pointy headed Klansman and local sheriffs were one and the same.

Too much blood sweat and tears in there for me to reply on such a serious subject and see the levity.

Don't take it personal.


SoulDawg

[SoulDawg74]

So, when Nawrocki wrote those same things about Jimmy Clausen, was that racist or just prejudice against ugly people?

SD:

On Clausen he was one of a dozen who wrote the same , even his coaches allowed they had to work with him and that he had improved his game , which by default indicates at one time there was a problem.

Narcistic narly nuts , however is the lone ranger , whose contrarian controversy provides him mucho pub and notoriety at a time when such publications are a dime a dozen with internet reports on the tip of everybodies fingers.

No different than Mike Mayocks dumbass listing Newton third behind Gabbert and Locker , when he outplayed both of them even if you added their best stats together cut the two of them in half and sewed em back together and made a new guy.


SoulDawg

[hiko]

Butt allways remember just because your paranoid still doesn't mean people ain't pickin on ya .


SoulDawg

Oh, I agree. But someone really should have more evidence than "he's got a funky beard" before trying to turn his neighbor in as a terrorist.

[SoulDawg74]

Butt allways remember just because your paranoid still doesn't mean people ain't pickin on ya .


SoulDawg

Oh, I agree. But someone really should have more evidence than "he's got a funky beard" before trying to turn his neighbor in as a terrorist.

SD:

True Dat .

problem is , nowdays everybody is an actor.


SoulDawg

[pup]

Appearing on CBS Radio in Charlotte Friday, Panthers GM Marty Hurney defended Auburn QB Cam Newton against Pro Football Weekly draft analyst Nolan Nawrocki's brutal scouting report on the 2010 Heisman winner.
"I don't pay much attention," said Hurney. "(Nolan Nawrocki) has never met Cam Newton. So who's he talked to? He says he's talking to decision makers. We have the No. 1 pick. He hasn't talked to me." Hurney is a known backer of Jimmy Clausen, but he went out of his way to defend Newton against Nawrocki's attack. Added Hurney, "(Nawrocki) did his job, he's selling books."

A "high-ranking" NFL executive insists that Cam Newton would be the draft's clear-cut No. 1 overall pick if he was white.
"If Newton were white, he’d be the first pick in the draft," said the exec, who arrived at this conclusion before Newton adviser Warren Moon accused the 2010 Heisman winner's detractors of being racially charged. We won't go as far as Moon, but comparisons to JaMarcus Russell would seem to come dangerously close to blatant racism. Russell and Newton have few similarities as players and athletes. They do have the same skin color

Per Rotoworld

[hiko]

A "high-ranking" NFL executive insists that Cam Newton would be the draft's clear-cut No. 1 overall pick if he was white.
"If Newton were white, he’d be the first pick in the draft," said the exec, who arrived at this conclusion before Newton adviser Warren Moon accused the 2010 Heisman winner's detractors of being racially charged. We won't go as far as Moon, but comparisons to JaMarcus Russell would seem to come dangerously close to blatant racism. Russell and Newton have few similarities as players and athletes. They do have the same skin color

Per Rotoworld

The opinion of an anonymous supposedly "high-ranking" NFL exec means nothing to me in this arena. You think they're immune to unfounded conjecture and sheer stupidity?

Might as well post:

A "high-ranking" NFL executive insists that Cam Newton would be the draft's clear-cut No. 1 hottie if he was a woman.
"If Newton were a chick, he’d be the first one asked to pose nude," said the exec, who arrived at this conclusion before Newton adviser Warren Moon accused the 2010 Heisman winner's detractors of being sexually charged cuz he's not as hot as Beyonce. We won't go as far as Moon, but comparisons to Hugh Hefner would seem to come dangerously close to blatant sexism. Hefner and Newton have few similarities as players and athletes. They do both have cocks.

FTR - comparisons of Cam to Russell are ridiculous, and I'm sure some of them are the result of lazy analysis based on race, just like every Browns game this season when some douchenugget announcer had to let us know how much Hillis reminded them of Mike Alstott. I don't know if you can claim these people are "racists", but they clearly were inspired by who-looks-like-whom.

[pup]

Just passing along info Hiko.

How is this source any less credible than "multiple unidentified scouts"?

[motherscratcher]

SD:

Mutha there is a big difference between reading about history with your Cheerios enroute to go play your N tendo , and living that part of history in which we're both referencing .

During that span , I saw this country change form legalized Jim Crow and out right gubermint sanctioned wrong doings toward American citizens to seeing a Black President elected 50 Years after pointy headed Klansman and local sheriffs were one and the same.

Too much blood sweat and tears in there for me to reply on such a serious subject and see the levity.

Don't take it personal.


SoulDawg

I'm not taking it personal. I just think balls of any color are funny.

I also think it's funny that Hiko and I are saying essentially the same thing (he much more clearly and eloquently). While Moon did endure racism, it doesn't have much to do with this evalutaion of Newton and there's nothing to suggest one way or the other that Narwocki's motivation in ripping Cam is based in racism.

But you rack the shit out of Hiko's take and give me the 4 FU salute.

I don't get it.

[hiko]

Just passing along info Hiko.

How is this source any less credible than "multiple unidentified scouts"?

It ain't. It's all noise, which is why I'm pretty surprised that Warren Moon (or anyone) would get their knickers in a bunch about it.

[SoulDawg74]

SD:

Mutha there is a big difference between reading about history with your Cheerios enroute to go play your N tendo , and living that part of history in which we're both referencing .

During that span , I saw this country change form legalized Jim Crow and out right gubermint sanctioned wrong doings toward American citizens to seeing a Black President elected 50 Years after pointy headed Klansman and local sheriffs were one and the same.

Too much blood sweat and tears in there for me to reply on such a serious subject and see the levity.

Don't take it personal.


SoulDawg

I'm not taking it personal. I just think balls of any color are funny.

I also think it's funny that Hiko and I are saying essentially the same thing (he much more clearly and eloquently). While Moon did endure racism, it doesn't have much to do with this evalutaion of Newton and there's nothing to suggest one way or the other that Narwocki's motivation in ripping Cam is based in racism.

But you rack the shit out of Hiko's take and give me the 4 FU salute.

I don't get it.

SD:

Its a Black Thang .....

[JacksonDysonJackson]

Since the Browns won't draft him, I don't have a horse in he race, but I'll say this: the guy is a winner. His comeback against Bama this year showed me something. Stepping into an offense as a first year starter and leading them to a NC is nothing to sneeze at. None of that means he'll be a big time NFL QB, but those are qualities that, in the college game, cannot be denied.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Mutha there is a big difference between reading about history with your Cheerios enroute to go play your N tendo , and living that part of history in which we're both referencing .

During that span , I saw this country change form legalized Jim Crow and out right gubermint sanctioned wrong doings toward American citizens to seeing a Black President elected 50 Years after pointy headed Klansman and local sheriffs were one and the same.

Too much blood sweat and tears in there for me to reply on such a serious subject and see the levity.

This is why your Cam takes are out of whack and at this point shunned... you're too emotionally vested in the color aspect to be truly unbiased

I'm not saying that's a bad thing...just something that has to be considered by everyone that has to listen to every conversation become all about Cam Newton and now that you've basically come clean maybe you can start to show some restraint....or not

[SoulDawg74]

Mutha there is a big difference between reading about history with your Cheerios enroute to go play your N tendo , and living that part of history in which we're both referencing .

During that span , I saw this country change form legalized Jim Crow and out right gubermint sanctioned wrong doings toward American citizens to seeing a Black President elected 50 Years after pointy headed Klansman and local sheriffs were one and the same.

Too much blood sweat and tears in there for me to reply on such a serious subject and see the levity.

This is why your Cam takes are out of whack and at this point shunned... you're too emotionally vested in the color aspect to be truly unbiased

I'm not saying that's a bad thing...just something that has to be considered by everyone that has to listen to every conversation become all about Cam Newton and now that you've basically come clean maybe you can start to show some restraint....or not

SD:

Believe it or not , I wanted Cam Newton after Luck dropped out because he's the best QB in the draft , that he's Black wasn't even a consideration because it had nothing to do with my preference as to who was the best .

Period.

I'm commenting on Moons comments and the resultant firestorm which ensued , but never let it be said for a minute , I would advocate Cam over luck if both were on the board now , because Luck could step in tommorow where Cam will take time.

I've been consistent on this Luck Newton Barkley and Pryor I view as true premiere talents .

Gabbert was just a guy until Luck dropped outta the picture , and if he was in this draft Gabbert would be in Locker territory fighting for the third QB taken because he's nothing special .

I'm on record as saying he doesn't really represent an upgrade over Colt.

Locker at least has a gun , although its as inaccurate throwing out of the pocket as
a Saturday night special.

Nobody in the last ten years throws a better looking ball than Mallett , but under pressure he folds like tin foil serves up picks like cookies with tea and shows the worst dicision making this side of Pac man jones.

SoulDawg

[Triple-S]

going to just leave this here.

[SoulDawg74]

going to just leave this here.

SD:

Chuckie is nutts , and can only work with veteran QB's as he grinds the kids into dust too intent to show how much he knows and what they don't know , in liue of development.

Just the opposite of Shurmur whose work with Bradford was viewed as nothing less than a miracle.

You doubt that ?


Please name the first or the last young QB developed under Gruden.

Thanks in advance.


SoulDawg

[Triple-S]

The point is not the fact that of who's running the camp SD, but rather how Newton came off.

He's never ran anything similar to an NFL offense, and he only understands a very limited and simple play call selection.

THAT, frightens me.

[mattvan1]

Gruden may be nuts; that doesn't mean he's not spot on with his comments. He also destroyed Gabbert for not being able to take a snap from under center and crappy footwork.

As far as QB development and Gruden - he only had one young QB with which to wok. 'Course, Gruden basically called Chris Simms a giant vag for not returning quickly enough from having his ruptured spleen removed. So that one didn't go too well.

ETA - Most Longhorns ARE pussies , (Earl Campbell notable exception) but in the case of Chris Simms Gruden went a tad too far.

[hiko]

The point is not the fact that of who's running the camp SD, but rather how Newton came off.

He's never ran anything similar to an NFL offense, and he only understands a very limited and simple play call selection.

THAT, frightens me.

That's really just nitpicking, though, cuz there's very few QB's that come out of college these days ready for an NFL offense. Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Kapernick... all these guys come out of the shotgun or pistol formations that have watered down playcalling to increase speed. Same with McCoy and Bradford last year. The only QB's that really come out of "Pro Systems" the last couple years would be Mallett and Clausen, and Clausen used his "NFL Readiness" to basically doom himself to a career backup after only one season.

[mattvan1]

The point is not the fact that of who's running the camp SD, but rather how Newton came off.

He's never ran anything similar to an NFL offense, and he only understands a very limited and simple play call selection.

THAT, frightens me.

That's really just nitpicking, though, cuz there's very few QB's that come out of college these days ready for an NFL offense. Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Kapernick... all these guys come out of the shotgun or pistol formations that have watered down playcalling to increase speed. Same with McCoy and Bradford last year. The only QB's that really come out of "Pro Systems" the last couple years would be Mallett and Clausen, and Clausen used his "NFL Readiness" to basically doom himself to a career backup after only one season.

You neglected to mention that Brady Quinn was groomed by the Fat Genius himself and was once considered "the most pro-ready prospect" to come along in quite some time. So Denver has that going for them, which is nice.

[SoulDawg74]

The point is not the fact that of who's running the camp SD, but rather how Newton came off.

He's never ran anything similar to an NFL offense, and he only understands a very limited and simple play call selection.

THAT, frightens me.

SD:

Kids come out of College all the time even as ighly decorated scholars , but aren't firt for the workplace until you show them the ropes.

Hell man when it comes to the real world these fuckin kids don't even know how to sweep a floor.

The point being all these kids with the exception of Luck who has been trained since he was shittin yaller to be a QB are going to be less than a finished product .

Its what you do with them when you get them that counts .

Case in point Jerry Rice had to learn to catch balls (he was plagued with the dropsies so to act surprised that a kid coming out of a funky College offense is going to need some extra ordinary attention to ramp upto the pro game is hardly newsworthy.

Thats a given .

Talent wise we're still looking at the top player in this draft .

If you don't have the talent on your staff or intent to employ such to develop him into the Pro he should be then that's not the kids fault.

Butt to expect him to come in as a Pro ready to go , when he's not advertised as such makes you a fool.


SoulDawg

[SoulDawg74]

Gruden may be nuts; that doesn't mean he's not spot on with his comments. He also destroyed Gabbert for not being able to take a snap from under center and crappy footwork.

As far as QB development and Gruden - he only had one young QB with which to wok. 'Course, Gruden basically called Chris Simms a giant vag for not returning quickly enough from having his ruptured spleen removed. So that one didn't go too well.

ETA - Most Longhorns ARE pussies , (Earl Campbell notable exception) but in the case of Chris Simms Gruden went a tad too far.

SD:

IIRC Chucky had about 6 young men on the roster vying for QB all at the same time .

Simms to name one Johnson Gradkowski an ex Brown and McCown an ex Brown to name a few, turned em all into goose liver.

He won the Superbowl with Dungies offense , and his overrated ass been resting on his laurels hidng out in a broadcast booth ever since.

So he damn sure ain't no fool


SoulDawg

[mattvan1]

You crack me up - you have an agenda, so fuck the facts that don't support your position. The irony here, of course, is that you and I are on the same side of this argument, but to revise history to support your POV is just plain wrong. The Bucs won a ring with Dungy's/Kiffin's DEFENSE. As far as QBs, I guess Gruden blows as HC because he couldn't turn a couple of late round stiffs like Gradkowski and McNown into Tom Brady.

Carry on.

[SoulDawg74]

You crack me up - you have an agenda, so fuck the facts that don't support your position. The irony here, of course, is that you and I are on the same side of this argument, but to revise history to support your POV is just plain wrong. The Bucs won a ring with Dungy's/Kiffin's DEFENSE. As far as QBs, I guess Gruden blows as HC because he couldn't turn a couple of late round stiffs like Gradkowski and McNown into Tom Brady.

Carry on.

SD:

What no mention of Simms.

Cool down Matt , I called Gruden a fraud when his name was mentioned in regard to becoming coach here , not because you think its about Newtons foibles.

Point being Gruden as a QB guru was as successful as the Browns these last 12 years in picking them out out or developing them .

He gets credit as some offensive guru but it ain't true even though his resume is as impressive as hell.

The Raiduhs were beaten by Tampa's defense due to inside info provided by Chucky, but offensive he was just less offensive than Dungy in is performance as in P u with more tools.

BTW I get the point Cams answers were embarrassing but thats also the point.

What value was Gruden other than to flame an agenda.




SoulDawg

[mattvan1]

You crack me up - you have an agenda, so fuck the facts that don't support your position. The irony here, of course, is that you and I are on the same side of this argument, but to revise history to support your POV is just plain wrong. The Bucs won a ring with Dungy's/Kiffin's DEFENSE. As far as QBs, I guess Gruden blows as HC because he couldn't turn a couple of late round stiffs like Gradkowski and McNown into Tom Brady.

Carry on.

SD:

What no mention of Simms.

Cool down Matt , I called Gruden a fraud when his name was mentioned in regard to becoming coach here , not because you think its about Newtons foibles.

Point being Gruden as a QB guru was as successful as the Browns these last 12 years in picking them out out or developing them .

He gets credit as some offensive guru but it ain't true even though his resume is as impressive as hell.

The Raiduhs were beaten by Tampa's defense due to inside info provided by Chucky, but offensive he was just less offensive than Dungy in is performance as in P u with more tools.

BTW I get the point Cams answers were embarrassing but thats also the point.

What value was Gruden other than to flame an agenda.




SoulDawg

Simms and the spleenectomy were discussed further above. Dude, I AGREE with you - Gruden is waaaay over rated.

But not because he didn't turn Chris Simms into Phil Simms.

And not because he picked on Cam Newton.

As far as value, other than some 30/30 and an occasional Outside the Lines when does the WWL offer any value at all? Just entertainment. Kinda like this thread. Peace out.

[Triple-S]

Didn't Tim Couch enter the NFL without having used a playbook? ;)

Again, you can preach to me, how, you think that you're going to be able to burn a draft pick on this guy, and somehow have him sit on the bench and learn the tricks of the trade. It's not happening. I've seen this story happen a million times before. Eventually people would get fed up and call for Colts Head, and beg for this guy to enter in mid-way thru the season, and we're right back to where we were before.

And for as much as you hate on McCoy for the lack of an arm, at least I can say the guy understands an NFL playbook, and while he may have played a spread in college, he admitted to studying up on some of the greats out there and integrating plays from Manning and the Colts while with the Horns.

[pup]

Didn't Tim Couch enter the NFL without having used a playbook? ;)

Again, you can preach to me, how, you think that you're going to be able to burn a draft pick on this guy, and somehow have him sit on the bench and learn the tricks of the trade. It's not happening. I've seen this story happen a million times before. Eventually people would get fed up and call for Colts Head, and beg for this guy to enter in mid-way thru the season, and we're right back to where we were before.

And for as much as you hate on McCoy for the lack of an arm, at least I can say the guy understands an NFL playbook, and while he may have played a spread in college, he admitted to studying up on some of the greats out there and integrating plays from Manning and the Colts while with the Horns.

If Colt McCoy plays to a level that people are calling for the backup in Week 8...doesn't that mean we SHOULD pick a QB?

Understanding the play book means nothing without the physical tools.
Physical tools mean nothing without understanding the play book.

Probably more conceivable to learn a play book than gain the physical tools.

[Triple-S]

If Colt McCoy plays to a level that people are calling for the backup in Week 8...doesn't that mean we SHOULD pick a QB?

We're not sure about that yet.

so far, McCoy has not shown anything to me, that has proven that he is or isn't the guy. We've seen him preform well against the Pats, Jets and Saints, and struggle with a team that was all but done towards the end of the season.

We will for sure know that at the end of this year, and then we'll be in Luckif he isn't. Browns history says, that no matter who is behind center, they'll find a way to be irrelevant soon, hence the guess.

If were going to go in the first round, don't waste it on a Missouri QB or dude who had one good season at Auburn, and looks to be in need of learning an NFL playbook. Get me a guy, who, if you stick in there, right then and now, he'll be able to handle the pressures of the pro game and not lose me football games.

[SoulDawg74]

Didn't Tim Couch enter the NFL without having used a playbook? ;)

Again, you can preach to me, how, you think that you're going to be able to burn a draft pick on this guy, and somehow have him sit on the bench and learn the tricks of the trade. It's not happening. I've seen this story happen a million times before. Eventually people would get fed up and call for Colts Head, and beg for this guy to enter in mid-way thru the season, and we're right back to where we were before.

And for as much as you hate on McCoy for the lack of an arm, at least I can say the guy understands an NFL playbook, and while he may have played a spread in college, he admitted to studying up on some of the greats out there and integrating plays from Manning and the Colts while with the Horns.

SD:

As we saw with Couch Russell and Leaf , its what you make of yourself as a pro that counts .

Couch couldn't read defenses 6 years in the league as a result of being too lazy to be an owl in the film room , Couch never did what Manning did with his receivers spending hours after practice.

Leaf was a silver spooned punk who simply cracked under pressure .

Vince Young can't handle adversity , and even had a suicide watch after fans booed and his mom called the authorities when he was seen toting gun in hand.

Couch was a mental midget with no toughness , cried when he thought the fans cheered him when he was injuried, but were in truth Cheering Holmcombs entry as fresh blood over his purtid play unaware he'd been injuried.

Newton has faced every adversity and exceeded all expectations taking a mediocre Auburn team no one expected to eclipse 500 on the season much less be relevant in the SEC , to unprecedented heights.

and if he doesn't keep on working just as hard in the pros it will all be for naught.

Show me evidence he's gonna quit working after back to back Championships at exceedingly tougher levels and then you have a story.

The dude grabbed Warren oon to train him to step his game up , whereas neither Leaf or Couch thought they needed anybody , including Couch arrogantly spurning Bernie Kosar , whose forte is dissecting defenses like a hog on the butcher block .


SoulDawg

[SoulDawg74]

If Colt McCoy plays to a level that people are calling for the backup in Week 8...doesn't that mean we SHOULD pick a QB?

We're not sure about that yet.

so far, McCoy has not shown anything to me, that has proven that he is or isn't the guy. We've seen him preform well against the Pats, Jets and Saints, and struggle with a team that was all but done towards the end of the season.

We will for sure know that at the end of this year, and then we'll be in Luckif he isn't. Browns history says, that no matter who is behind center, they'll find a way to be irrelevant soon, hence the guess.

If were going to go in the first round, don't waste it on a Missouri QB or dude who had one good season at Auburn, and looks to be in need of learning an NFL playbook. Get me a guy, who, if you stick in there, right then and now, he'll be able to handle the pressures of the pro game and not lose me football games.

SD:

Colt surprised when teams had no film on his abilities or tendencies , not so well thereafter , including a J ville game where the defense gave a season worth of turnovers and we still lost.

Vs the Inbred and the Rats in cold weather , the critical test Homie said he haddn't seen colt perform in .

Colt was an abysmal failure .

While Flacco and the Rapist shredded the cold air with lazers, Colt feeble passes looked like obsolete technology .

Throwing 6 picks which should have been ten with no singular pass looking better than a five year old attempting to throw his first football.

and

BTW , name me any football player who handled more pressure than Newton last year on any level and still produced a championship with the rest of the world in chaos around him.


SoulDawg

[motherscratcher]

Didn't Tim Couch enter the NFL without having used a playbook? ;)

Again, you can preach to me, how, you think that you're going to be able to burn a draft pick on this guy, and somehow have him sit on the bench and learn the tricks of the trade. It's not happening. I've seen this story happen a million times before. Eventually people would get fed up and call for Colts Head, and beg for this guy to enter in mid-way thru the season, and we're right back to where we were before.

And for as much as you hate on McCoy for the lack of an arm, at least I can say the guy understands an NFL playbook, and while he may have played a spread in college, he admitted to studying up on some of the greats out there and integrating plays from Manning and the Colts while with the Horns.

If Colt McCoy plays to a level that people are calling for the backup in Week 8...doesn't that mean we SHOULD pick a QB?

Understanding the play book means nothing without the physical tools.
Physical tools mean nothing without understanding the play book.

Probably more conceivable to learn a play book than gain the physical tools.

+1 to this pup.


If the Browns picked a QB (I don't think they will) I wouldn't be upset. If only we had a time machine to tell us what Colt will become. Unlit then, it's best guesses. I have no reason to not trust Heckgrens guess at this point. God, I hope they're right.

[leadpipe]

Not sure if this is about Gruden in regard to this interview.

Anyone asking a the question "Can you give us an example of a play you ran at Auburn..." And the guy can't recall a single play from a few months ago...

Not putting an emphasis on it, not saying it's a deal breaker....I'm saying it's perfectly rational to be somewhat concerned if you're going to take this guy with your first pick - 1. Because he couldn't recall a single play and 2. I'd like to hear a better "thinking on my feet" response than "You're putting me on the spot..." as if he was asked a difficult question.

And, of course, we need to mention this in any Cam thread - I don't say this cause he's black, saying it cause it is. Ryan Mallett's white as a ghost and he can't answer a GD question, nor does he understand how to carry himself, which is making his draft stock plummet as well.

[SoulDawg74]

Not sure if this is about Gruden in regard to this interview.

Anyone asking a the question "Can you give us an example of a play you ran at Auburn..." And the guy can't recall a single play from a few months ago...

Not putting an emphasis on it, not saying it's a deal breaker....I'm saying it's perfectly rational to be somewhat concerned if you're going to take this guy with your first pick - 1. Because he couldn't recall a single play and 2. I'd like to hear a better "thinking on my feet" response than "You're putting me on the spot..." as if he was asked a difficult question.

And, of course, we need to mention this in any Cam thread - I don't say this cause he's black, saying it cause it is. Ryan Mallett's white as a ghost and he can't answer a GD question, nor does he understand how to carry himself, which is making his draft stock plummet as well.

SD:

signs of the times , it fits with the dumbing down of America .

use to be Men playing a boys game , now we got boys who have no idea how to be men.

Mallets arm is a surgical weapon , but his mouth is a minefield he can't escape.

If Newton could navigate himself around off the field with Peyton Mannings political awareness , he'd be illegal, and Mallet would be all the rage , as teams are trying to find a reason to like him.

All the more reason why Andy Reids support model was mostly copied and employed here, none of these kids are mature enough out of the box , but you've got to find a way to harness that horsepower before they break their own necks fighting against themselves.

Rare is the combination of talent and awareness nowadays .

The guys who can speak at your moms bridge club and be the little darling don't have the talent , so your stuck with the bulls in the china shops .

Training these young morons

Is worse than trying to herd cats .


SoulDawg

[Triple-S]

SD:

Colt surprised when teams had no film on his abilities or tendencies , not so well thereafter , including a J ville game where the defense gave a season worth of turnovers and we still lost.

Vs the Inbred and the Rats in cold weather , the critical test Homie said he haddn't seen colt perform in .

Colt also had no one to throw to, and had his plant foot was messed up because of John St. Clair (who I hate with a passion..overpaid bum) inability to block a single damn person.

As for cold weather, I would HOPE that Roethlisberger and Flacco would look good in those conditions, having been in the league and division for as many years. Colt? again, a rookie with a team that had already packed it in w/ a lame duck coach? not expecting much.

[Triple-S]

FWIW:

GRUDEN: I’m really happy for the progress that he’s shown. Selfishly I really like that guy. You probably could tell.
Tough situation for Colt McCoy, Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, and Jimmy Clausen. All four of these guys drafted early last year are having to learn new offenses in a lockout situation. But one thing McCoy brought to Cleveland I think was play making. I saw him make some nice scramble plays, running for touchdowns, creating with his arm.
They were able to move the pocket. I think he’s going to be a natural in this west coast offense that Coach Shurmur’s going to put in. This guy can throw the ball accurately. He’s tough. He’s a leader, and I thought on tape he did some really good things in every football game that he played last year for a rookie in tough circumstances.
Again, I think Cleveland’s going to continue to improve the supporting cast, and that will help Colt McCoy as well. Hopefully this lockout ends, and he can join forces with the offensive staff and learn what it is they want him to do.
Q. Is McCoy’s arm strength suspect?
GRUDEN: No, I think if you watch him throw the seams, I did see him throw some outside breaking routes last year. I saw him connect on a couple balls down the field. They don’t really have a legitimate guy that they feature deep. They’re more of a possession pass offense like a lot of teams are these days. But I think he’s got enough arm to succeed in Cleveland and in the NFL.

http://blogs.cantonrep.com/freshbrownie ... olt-mccoy/

[e0y2e3]

This is the fucking stupidest argument on here ever.

Cam not having run an offense means nothing. The teams conducting the interviews are doing so to figure out if he can run a pro offense. If he shows that he can he'll go number 1 because he is that talented.

If you want to keep blowing Colt McCoy for no fucking reason SSS go ahead, but you learned nothing from that clip of Cam.

And If you've watched these Gruden things before he does nothing but rave about every QB that comes through after they are over.

[Triple-S]

You know..

Here's the problem I have.

Instead of, I don't know. Making a point and going "Oh, well SSS, you're incorrect on this argument, let me tell you why". You go and just go on and demean the poster for no reason.

I happen to believe the piece I linked on Gruden places together a great argument as to why McCoy fits the scheme that the Browns are putting in place next year, and who better to say that then the guy that got his start under the team pres. and almost had the job as HC himself? And, yes, I do indeed know the whole "This guy" speel the guy does, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the guy has a ton of knowledge of the quarterback position in the NFL.

Seriously dude, fuck off and leave me out of your posts.

[jb]

This is the fucking stupidest argument on here ever.

Cam not having run an offense means nothing. The teams conducting the interviews are doing so to figure out if he can run a pro offense. If he shows that he can he'll go number 1 because he is that talented.

If you want to keep blowing Colt McCoy for no fucking reason SSS go ahead, but you learned nothing from that clip of Cam.

And If you've watched these Gruden things before he does nothing but rave about every QB that comes through after they are over.

C'mon man.

We don't have alot of rules but this isn't NHB'd. Context my brutha. This isn't SD who doesn't care or even likes to mix it up this way. SSS is just posting.

Be cool.

And YMMV about Chuckie, but it is a legit point. At least it is on topic.

[e0y2e3]

I'm not sure what is YMMV about SSS acting like a 30 second clip of Chuckie proves to him that Cam Newton can't run an NFL offense.

It's not a point, it's a red herring.

[Triple-S]

Does it prove he can't run an NFL offense? Not really. We don't know until he trots out onto the field in the fall whether or not that's true.

Just raised a red flag to me. He's not a guy you could stick into this Browns offense right now and expect immediate results, which is sort of what I'm looking for when taking a QB in the first round. Think Matt Ryan.

NOW, I could see if somehow the early 90's Oilers offense was somehow put in place, yeah, results could be shown early. But, the Browns team president is not Jack Pardee/

[SoulDawg74]

SD:

Colt surprised when teams had no film on his abilities or tendencies , not so well thereafter , including a J ville game where the defense gave a season worth of turnovers and we still lost.

Vs the Inbred and the Rats in cold weather , the critical test Homie said he haddn't seen colt perform in .

Colt also had no one to throw to, and had his plant foot was messed up because of John St. Clair (who I hate with a passion..overpaid bum) inability to block a single damn person.

As for cold weather, I would HOPE that Roethlisberger and Flacco would look good in those conditions, having been in the league and division for as many years. Colt? again, a rookie with a team that had already packed it in w/ a lame duck coach? not expecting much.

SD:

Colt has small hands and in the cold weather it really effected his throws because he couldn't squeeze the ball , combined with his weak little pop pistol it was a predictable butt ugly result.

Has not one fucking thing as to who your throwing too if your ass ain't got enough bricks in your back pocket to get a mutha hubba the ball.

Now you keep buying that boilerplate pablum bull spit the Front office is putting out that all is well if you want to , but I'll go with my lieing eyes .

Thank Ya very much.

The Browns will add a QB , if they could land Newton without sacrificing their left nutt they have enough pros on staff to train him and ramp him upto speed while Colt starts.

More likely the cost will be prohibitive and they'll employ a fallback option of Kapernick Ponder or Dalton or even Locker depending how far he falls.

Meantime somebody has to run the unofficial practices , so they can't not support Colt at every press conference or media quiery .

Butt if you think for one fuckin minute Holmgren blamed the receivers for Colt short arming the ball , and those dieing quail prayers mercifully picked off because they were too hideous to look at then man you better pass that joint.


SoulDawg

[Triple-S]

Butt if you think for one fuckin minute Holmgren blamed the receivers for Colt short arming the ball , and those dieing quail prayers mercifully picked off because they were too hideous to look at then man you better pass that joint.

So, you're saying, the same guy who has said in recent months that the Browns "Need to Draft a Homerun Hitter" (implying a big play receiver.), and has consistently made it all the more obvious that he supports McCoy and views him as his little project, is secretly thinking he's a shit QB with little potential and no chance at being the franchise guy?.

riiiiight.

Look, I could see the argument more if McCoy wasn't tossing the pigskin to guys who don't know the meaning of the word separation. But the fact is, the receiving corp was indeed awful. Brian Robiskie is nowhere near a starting WR in the NFL, and MoMass at best is a #2 or #3 guy.

MoMass on the year only had 483 yards in receiving, Robiskie? 310!? Even a mediocre NFL team has receivers at the very least have one guy hovering near the 1000 yard mark.

[SoulDawg74]

Butt if you think for one fuckin minute Holmgren blamed the receivers for Colt short arming the ball , and those dieing quail prayers mercifully picked off because they were too hideous to look at then man you better pass that joint.

So, you're saying, the same guy who has said in recent months that the Browns "Need to Draft a Homerun Hitter" (implying a big play receiver.), and has consistently made it all the more obvious that he supports McCoy and views him as his little project, is secretly thinking he's a shit QB with little potential and no chance at being the franchise guy?.

riiiiight.

Look, I could see the argument more if McCoy wasn't tossing the pigskin to guys who don't know the meaning of the word separation. But the fact is, the receiving corp was indeed awful. Brian Robiskie is nowhere near a starting WR in the NFL, and MoMass at best is a #2 or #3 guy.

MoMass on the year only had 483 yards in receiving, Robiskie? 310!? Even a mediocre NFL team has receivers at the very least have one guy hovering near the 1000 yard mark.

SD:

Hey stoopid , at what point do you quit blaming receivers when the fuckin QB throws the ball at their feet.


SoulDawg

[Triple-S]

SD:

Hey stoopid , at what point do you quit blaming receivers when the fuckin QB throws the ball at their feet.


SoulDawg

When the receivers actually get some form of separation?

sure as shit didn't see a lot of that going on either.

Combine the fact that the Rats and Inbred were blitzing like mad on him, with El Matador leaving a wide open place to sack him, what the hell else is he supposed to do?

give him time to throw and some actual receivers.