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Vernon Gholston, AJ Hawk & NFL Cuts

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Vernon Gholston, AJ Hawk & NFL Cuts

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:21 pm

Vernon Gholston is being released by the Jets. ANyone know what happened to him there? Did he just not fit the system?

Is he worth a look as an end in the Browns new 4-3?

Yes, I understand and am completely aware that I'm a total homer. I'm fine with that. I just the remember the havoc he wreaked as a Buckeye and would love to see it in Brown and orange.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby jb » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:33 pm

He Busted. See also, David Veikune & Mangini's inbility to project.

I sure as hell would try him in a 4 - 3 if I were a team conversting with no DE's.

Absolfuckinlutely.

Whose place is he taking?
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby Loo » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:45 pm

Freak athlete.
Not a football player.

But, since we don't have anyone there, why not for the right price?

Then again, I have as many sacks as he does, so if you'd just like to pay me instead I'll throw on some pads.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby hiko » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:52 pm

jb wrote:He Busted. See also, David Veikune & Mangini's inbility to project.

I sure as hell would try him in a 4 - 3 if I were a team conversting with no DE's.

Absolfuckinlutely.

Whose place is he taking?


Who do we have at DE to replace?

Matt Roth no under contract. Marcus Benard no under contract.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby danwismar » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:55 pm

No harm in giving him a look.

But if the Browns were going to look at a former Buckeye being cut loose this week, I think I'd be much more interested in Nate Clements, who I understand will be waived by the 49ers. He's from Shaker Hts., and might like to come home to finish his NFL career...and we could use another corner....who couldn't?
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby hiko » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:42 pm

danwismar wrote:No harm in giving him a look.

But if the Browns were going to look at a former Buckeye being cut loose this week, I think I'd be much more interested in Nate Clements, who I understand will be waived by the 49ers. He's from Shaker Hts., and might like to come home to finish his NFL career...and we could use another corner....who couldn't?


I can't even imagine the number of way-under-the-table contract talks going on right now with potential Free Agents and potential buyers.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby Calis32 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:21 pm

I thought that under the rules clubs could talk to and sign players who were cut (as opposed to having their contracts expire). If so, I hope the Browns are willing to give the guy a shot.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby scott » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:56 pm

Calis32 wrote:I thought that under the rules clubs could talk to and sign players who were cut (as opposed to having their contracts expire). If so, I hope the Browns are willing to give the guy a shot.



The old CBA hasn't yet expired. Cut players can talk to teams and sign until Thursday.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby Loo » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:15 pm

Mark May is on NFL Live right now talking about how Gholston was going to be a third round pick, but then he had a great combine and jumped two rounds.

That's complete and utter BS. In fact, it's so blatant it's lying.

Maybe my memory is wrong, but wasn't Gholston projected as a mid-first or early second? From the combine I thought he jumped like 10 spots, but two full rounds from the third round to almost a top-5 pick did not happen.

The guy was the only guy to get a sack by Long...it's not like he was an OK prospect on game film.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby JCoz » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:29 pm

Loo wrote:Mark May is on NFL Live right now talking about how Gholston was going to be a third round pick, but then he had a great combine and jumped two rounds.

That's complete and utter BS. In fact, it's so blatant it's lying.

Maybe my memory is wrong, but wasn't Gholston projected as a mid-first or early second? From the combine I thought he jumped like 10 spots, but two full rounds from the third round to almost a top-5 pick did not happen.

The guy was the only guy to get a sack by Long...it's not like he was an OK prospect on game film.


He was 1st Rd projection, IIRC, but mid to late 1st rd. His game against Jake Long absolutely cemented that.

He was never, ever projected below the 2nd rd, thats ridiculous.

Someone needs to make the Jon Stewart show of sports.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby hiko » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:50 pm

Loo wrote:Mark May is on NFL Live right now talking about how Gholston was going to be a third round pick, but then he had a great combine and jumped two rounds.

That's complete and utter BS. In fact, it's so blatant it's lying.

Maybe my memory is wrong, but wasn't Gholston projected as a mid-first or early second? From the combine I thought he jumped like 10 spots, but two full rounds from the third round to almost a top-5 pick did not happen.

The guy was the only guy to get a sack by Long...it's not like he was an OK prospect on game film.


Mark May is the biggest waste of a working heart this side of Libya.

Gholston was productive in college - there was little chance he was getting out of the high 2nd round (at worst) no matter what he did at the combine.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby Loo » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:51 pm

^^^ Thank you--I never remember him hearing anything but "projected first rounder" attached to his name but started questioning myself because, really, how could a guy--paid to know this stuff--go on national TV and flat out lie. Third round to top-10?

Mark, this is near your lowest of lows.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby hiko » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:54 pm

Calis32 wrote:I thought that under the rules clubs could talk to and sign players who were cut (as opposed to having their contracts expire). If so, I hope the Browns are willing to give the guy a shot.


True, but the guy hasn't been cut yet either.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:59 pm

Loo wrote:^^^ Thank you--I never remember him hearing anything but "projected first rounder" attached to his name but started questioning myself because, really, how could a guy--paid to know this stuff--go on national TV and flat out lie. Third round to top-10?

Mark, this is near your lowest of lows.


SD:

May and Holtz ruin College football on Saturday , sorry to see him commenting on the pro game because he's worse than useless.

Gholston as a situational pass rusher in a rotation might find his NFL sea legs put back in his natural DE weakside spot. IMO .

Agree with everybody else now that he's cut he'd be cheap enough to take a flyer.

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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby Triple-S » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:26 pm

hiko wrote:Mark May is the biggest waste of a working heart this side of Libya.

Gholston was productive in college - there was little chance he was getting out of the high 2nd round (at worst) no matter what he did at the combine.


Rack this take, dudes a sack of excrement.

Words cannot express how much I hate that guy covering CFB. I'm really of the belief that he really is nothing special when it comes to analyzing the game, and took up the heal role so that he could stay on the air.

One of the biggest joys I ever had, were when he had to sit next to the Vest and Sanzenbacher (btw, still would like to draft him), following the sugar bowl and feeling uncomfortable in his own skin, while Buckeye fans were chanting "MARK MAY SUCKS" in the background.

Him, Colin Cowherd, and Skip Bayless are the biggest non-talents I've ever seen get airtime. And they all are simply there to play the heel role. And they're still reproducing (asexually I presume) with the recent "talents" on WKNR with Goldhammer and co.

In regards to Holtz? I actually like him, I don't watch for analysis from him, but he's just entertaining to hear his views on things. He's never really all that nasty to anyone, with exception to Mark May or DickRod. He's also from my school, coached a little at Ohio State, and was pretty classy in not running up the score against some TERRIBLE Purdue teams. He can stay, but it would be nice to see someone like Spielman brought in to give some real good analysis.

And on another side note? why was he not brought into give his opinion on this? Spielman would have more insight on ex-Buckeyes as a pro players than some jackass who just uses his position as a bully pulpit.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:27 am

This is why I pay no attention to OSU Fan when he suggests drafting Buckeyes...or signing them on after they have proved to be monumental fail

According to Michael Salfino of the Wall Street Journal, Gholston is the only defensive end drafted in the top 10 to fail to record a single sack since the NFL started counting sacks in 1982.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... raft-bust/

The mere suggestion of picking up this worthless slug reeks of grey and red dyed eyeballs
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:17 am

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:This is why I pay no attention to OSU Fan when he suggests drafting Buckeyes...or signing them on after they have proved to be monumental fail

According to Michael Salfino of the Wall Street Journal, Gholston is the only defensive end drafted in the top 10 to fail to record a single sack since the NFL started counting sacks in 1982.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... raft-bust/

The mere suggestion of picking up this worthless slug reeks of grey and red dyed eyeballs


SD:

Took ya for a hatin asshole from jump street , now I can add stoopid too that dossier.

Gholston had 22 sacks as a DE his senior year which led to him becoming a top ten pick, however he wasn't drafted to play his natural position failed as a converted linebacker at was released for cap reasons now.

We have no bonafide rush DE's and have converted to a 43 .

To criticize people who suggest we take a flyer on a DE less than 30 years old to attempt to fill that void if for nothing more than a situational pass rusher is irrational foul hatred directed at a school you detest rather than level evaluation of the Browns current sitrep less the individual involved.


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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:21 am

SD...I don't give a rats ass what he did in college and neither should you

In the NFL he was fail incarnate

Arguing this makes you look like a dumb ass....oh wait... ::doh::
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:25 am

To criticize people who suggest we take a flyer on a DE less than 30 years old to attempt to fill that void if for nothing more than a situational pass rusher is irrational foul hatred directed at a school you detest rather than level evaluation of the Browns current sitrep less the individual involved.


I don't have irrational fould hatred for OSU

When national types pimp OSU players I listen...just not anyone here who is obviously jaded
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby yogi » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:31 am

FMB, I totally understand your POV, but SDs and the others in this thread have merit.

If the guy still has the measureables, why not risk "nothing" to get something? Its not unheard of that as a player gets older, he matures, mentally, and something that wasnt there that would bring success, is now there.

There are such things as late bloomers. If this guy cost nothing, why wouldnt we take a chance? Will he cost us a roster spot and leave a different potenially valuable player open to get snatched away? Don't think so.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby jb » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:14 pm

Loo wrote:Mark May is on NFL Live right now talking about how Gholston was going to be a third round pick, but then he had a great combine and jumped two rounds.

That's complete and utter BS. In fact, it's so blatant it's lying.



Mark May's jelousy toward all things Buckeye from his Pitt background makes him as credible as Glenn Beck anytime he opens his pie hole on any matter OSU.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby jb » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:19 pm

We are essentialy in an expansion situation when it comes to DE's. Gholsten fits that profile.

Have lost track of Nate Clements. Dunno if he's waived casue he's done or casue of anticipated cap hit. If he has game, would love to see him here and get Brown to nickle. HecMFIC says he's not moving to FS.

THis isn't Buckeye honkitude. It's about big need.

And Braylon may also hit the market as the cap stapped Jets focus on Santonio.

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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby hiko » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:31 pm

I think we're losing perspective that Ghoulston was asked to go from College DE to 3-4 OLB in the NFL. Some guys make that transition, some don't. Ghoulston got very little PT his rookie year b/c he didn't make that transition well.

It doesn't bode well that he never recorded a sack as a Jet, there's no arguing that. But some guys that were 4-3 DE's in college benefit greatly by going back to 4-3 DE in the NFL after they failed as a LB.

I don't think anyone's saying to break the bank, but if you can get him for a reasonable 2 year contract with the idea that he can be a back-up DE and maybe you get lucky... I don't think that's homerism. You can't say he's an utter failure as an NFL DE because he's never played NFL DE. He was very productive in college. He might be situationally useful in a 4-3, we don't know yet. All we do know is that he's certainly not an NFL 3-4 OLB.

He got drafted as high as he did for his potential and production, so I don't see where giving the guy a shot is harmful. Not like we don't have room on the roster for an extra DE.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby neoleo » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:15 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:This is why I pay no attention to OSU Fan when he suggests drafting Buckeyes...or signing them on after they have proved to be monumental fail

According to Michael Salfino of the Wall Street Journal, Gholston is the only defensive end drafted in the top 10 to fail to record a single sack since the NFL started counting sacks in 1982.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... raft-bust/

The mere suggestion of picking up this worthless slug reeks of grey and red dyed eyeballs


How many Outside Linebackers drafted in the top 10 have failed to record a sack? Because, you know, that would be a relevant stat.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby neoleo » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:17 pm

And while we're on the topic of Buckeye homerism, I'd love to see Hawk at OLB and Whitner at Safety next to TJ Ward if they both become available as expected.
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Hawk released

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:05 pm

Not sure what to make of this, but we not have an LB worth a shit. Is this a play for the Browns?

(I figure if we can have a pure speculation thread on big Vern, we might as well on Hawk.)
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Re: Vernon Gholston & NFL Cuts

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:06 pm

"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


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Re: Hawk released

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:08 pm

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:Not sure what to make of this, but we not have an LB worth a shit. Is this a play for the Browns?

(I figure if we can have a pure speculation thread on big Vern, we might as well on Hawk.)



Thinking with ya. I re-did the Gholston thread to include this news as well JDJ. Keeps 'em all in the same place.

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Re: Vernon Gholston, AJ Hawk & NFL Cuts

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:18 pm

Cool...just so my butchering of the english language and grammar remain.
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:25 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
SD:

Took ya for a hatin asshole from jump street , now I can add stoopid too that dossier.

Gholston had 22 sacks as a DE his senior year which led to him becoming a top ten pick, however he wasn't drafted to play his natural position failed as a converted linebacker at was released for cap reasons now.

SoulDawg


Gholston actually had 0 sacks in his senior year, cuz he jumped to the NFL after recording 14.5 sacks as a junior. Dude didn't even have 22 in his OSU career. Why would you make up statistics to prove a weak point if he's not even a QB?
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:56 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:
SD:

Took ya for a hatin asshole from jump street , now I can add stoopid too that dossier.

Gholston had 22 sacks as a DE his senior year which led to him becoming a top ten pick, however he wasn't drafted to play his natural position failed as a converted linebacker at was released for cap reasons now.

SoulDawg


Gholston actually had 0 sacks in his senior year, cuz he jumped to the NFL after recording 14.5 sacks as a junior. Dude didn't even have 22 in his OSU career. Why would you make up statistics to prove a weak point if he's not even a QB?


SD:

Its called senility, replied to fast to that post , because i knew he had skipped one of the few who didn't finish as a Senior under Tressel and spit it out backwards.

that 22 number got stuck in there somehow , and i can't tell ya how I got it crossed referenced , wasn't an intentional misleading stat mea Culpa.
Edit must a registered his career stat total as his last years output 22 , although wiki says 21.5.

just remembered Gholston was a premiere selection at the time even as a De/hybrid conversion ,
so plating him in a system where he returns to his natural DE position leads credence for a rebirth over a career lost in NY.

As to your comments about QB 's , seldom do I use stats , but hyperbole is fair game.


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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:24 am

neoleo wrote:
Fire Marshall Bill wrote:This is why I pay no attention to OSU Fan when he suggests drafting Buckeyes...or signing them on after they have proved to be monumental fail

According to Michael Salfino of the Wall Street Journal, Gholston is the only defensive end drafted in the top 10 to fail to record a single sack since the NFL started counting sacks in 1982.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... raft-bust/

The mere suggestion of picking up this worthless slug reeks of grey and red dyed eyeballs


How many Outside Linebackers drafted in the top 10 have failed to record a sack? Because, you know, that would be a relevant stat.


You're the one keeping track, you tell me....in any event fail is fail

I should start using more of these I guess... :thumb up: :thumbdown: :hide: :nanner: :dingle: :spar: :pop: (cache) :salute: :group: :cheers: :guns: :pigs:
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Re: Vernon Gholston

Unread postby neoleo » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:44 am

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:
neoleo wrote:
Fire Marshall Bill wrote:This is why I pay no attention to OSU Fan when he suggests drafting Buckeyes...or signing them on after they have proved to be monumental fail

According to Michael Salfino of the Wall Street Journal, Gholston is the only defensive end drafted in the top 10 to fail to record a single sack since the NFL started counting sacks in 1982.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... raft-bust/

The mere suggestion of picking up this worthless slug reeks of grey and red dyed eyeballs


How many Outside Linebackers drafted in the top 10 have failed to record a sack? Because, you know, that would be a relevant stat.


You're the one keeping track, you tell me....in any event fail is fail

I should start using more of these I guess... :thumb up: :thumbdown: :hide: :nanner: :dingle: :spar: :pop: (cache) :salute: :group: :cheers: :guns: :pigs:


The point is, I believe you're missing the point.

He failed in NY. At a position he never played before. We have no defensive ends. He played DE in college and was successful. He will come cheap. If he fails at his natural position, it would be easy to cut him. No harm done.

Easy enough?

And I have no idea what any of those icon things mean.
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Re: Vernon Gholston, AJ Hawk & NFL Cuts

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:07 am

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever.
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Re: Vernon Gholston, AJ Hawk & NFL Cuts

Unread postby hiko » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:24 pm



Well, that won't help us in the quest to sign him.
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Re: Vernon Gholston, AJ Hawk & NFL Cuts

Unread postby gameface » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:01 pm

It certainly seems sensible to consider Gholston for the Browns.

But....the Jets did try him a bit at DE this past year, probably in their 4-3 look, not as a 3-4 DE, iirc. And....if Rex Ryan can't figure out a way to get some pass rush out of a guy, there may be something missing. Ryan made Gholston his pet project during Jets camp.

Jus' saying.
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Re: Vernon Gholston, AJ Hawk & NFL Cuts

Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:57 pm

gameface wrote:Ryan made Gholston his pet project during Jets camp.

Jus' saying.


I thought, according to Ryan on the HBO Hard Knocks, Gholston's "balls dropped" in August.

Apparently they didn't drop far enough.
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Re: Vernon Gholston, AJ Hawk & NFL Cuts

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:08 pm

mattvan1 wrote:
gameface wrote:Ryan made Gholston his pet project during Jets camp.

Jus' saying.


I thought, according to Ryan on the HBO Hard Knocks, Gholston's "balls dropped" in August.

Apparently they didn't drop far enough.



Maybe that means something completely different than what we thought?

Or maybe he's dyslexic and was talking about Braylon.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


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Re: Vernon Gholston, AJ Hawk & NFL Cuts

Unread postby hiko » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:38 pm

gameface wrote:It certainly seems sensible to consider Gholston for the Browns.

But....the Jets did try him a bit at DE this past year, probably in their 4-3 look, not as a 3-4 DE, iirc. And....if Rex Ryan can't figure out a way to get some pass rush out of a guy, there may be something missing. Ryan made Gholston his pet project during Jets camp.

Jus' saying.


Interesting data... I'd be curious to watch how he did in those 4-3 sets. My worry with him is that athletic LT's could swallow him up if he didn't have any moves.
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