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The Source's Latest

Unread postby swerb » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:23 pm

Same source as before re: the Browns is saying that they have no interest -- none -- in Brady Quinn, and that any expressed interest in Quinn is one hundred percent smokescreen. The current thinking still seems to be go for JaMarcus if possible, and otherwise look to trade down. One other possible option is Calvin Johnson -- the Browns brought him in for a workout, but were very quiet about it.
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Unread postby Wolfy » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:33 pm

That makes sense. He is the BEST player in the draft. They take him, give a little dangle, if they like they take if not draft O-line next two or three picks...works for me.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:05 pm

I have said it once. I have said it 100 times. The Cleveland Browns will select Joe Thomas with the #3 pick. This just confirms it. Russell will go #1. They will not take a receiver. Running backs are a dime a dozen.

QB's and RB's are positions to finish off team building, not start it. You start with the lines and go from there.

If you take QB, you are throwing away 2007. Randy will not do that.
If you take WR, well, you are the Lions. Phil better not do that.
If you take RB, he will probably be spent before you are ready to really compete.
The only place to make an impact on the 2007 Browns is the offensive line. It might not be pretty, but it is effective.

There is very little to not like on Joe Thomas. If you really like Levi Brown and can get someone to trade up, cool. But that first pick will be o-line.

Lady Quinn was the only one that scared me, because of the Romeo/Weiss connection. If they are not taking him, no matter what, and Russell is gone, go get your #72 jerseys now.
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Unread postby swerb » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:10 pm

Pup, there is no way they are taking Thomas.

I'm just trying to make this easier on you for Saturday.
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Unread postby yogi » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:18 pm

Lady Quinn was the only one that scared me, because of the Romeo/Weiss connection. If they are not taking him, no matter what, and Russell is gone, go get your #72 jerseys now.


That Romeo/Weiss connection that concerns you so much... they've got a lot of f-ing rings.

Maybe they know something about football and football players.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:23 pm

Pup, there is no way they are taking Thomas.

I'm just trying to make this easier on you for Saturday


First, I am not going to freak out if they take Peterson or Russell or Quinn or Johnson. They have have the chance to be great players. I don't know what any of there chanes are any more than anyone else.

All I know is, if the Cleveland Browns believe they have fixed, what I consider the single worst unit in the NFL by signing Eric Steinbach, we are in BIG trouble.

You know the way I see this playing out, and it sounds a lot like this next phrase:

"With the 37th pick in the NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns select Aaron Ross, CB, Texas"

Now we have done nothing but gotten older. Getting older sucks.

Hope we enjoy seeing Joe Andruzzi limp around for whatever out of 16 games he has left. Maybe we can just run all of our plays to the left. Think anyone will notice? Joe Andruzzi and Ryan Tucker are not what you start on the right side of a line. Unless, you want to get a QB killed. Again.

I have no choice but to be done with this topic, which most of you probably won't mind, since I am the only one left pimping JT. I'll bet most of you are here in October complaining about the lack of a running game, because 8-Ball gets hit behind the line of scrimmage.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:37 pm

If Calvin Johnson is on that board at #3, then those of you whom hoped they would trade down will get their wish. If he's not there I don't think they'll get a good enough offer to move.
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Unread postby swerb » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:48 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:If Calvin Johnson is on that board at #3, then those of you whom hoped they would trade down will get their wish. If he's not there I don't think they'll get a good enough offer to move.

I can't see Johnson still being on the board at #3.

There's just too many teams in the 7-20 range that need him so bad. Including the local Atlanta Falcons, who already moved up a couple spots in the Matt Schaub deal. And CJ is even more highly touted of a WR prospect than Larry Fitzgerald was, which people would have thought unthinkable at the time.

And I got the Raiders takin' JaMarcus.

Which means it's ...

Brady Quinn, Adrian Peterson, Joe Thomas, or trade down

My preference?

1. Trade down
2. Quinn
3. Peterson
4. Joe Thomas
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Unread postby Kuiper » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:53 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:If Calvin Johnson is on that board at #3, then those of you whom hoped they would trade down will get their wish. If he's not there I don't think they'll get a good enough offer to move.


The latter point is a misconception I believe. Because of the huge salaries for the top draft picks, the high chance that top draft picks will bust, and the limits of the salary cap, it's not clear that it's a positive to move up. I recently read a quote from a conversation in last year's draft where a GM, when asked by another GM if he wanted to trade up, asked what he was willing to give him to take the higher draft pick. The issue is as much whether you can get anyone to trade up with you as it is whether you'll get a good enough offer to move.
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Unread postby yogi » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:53 pm

And I got the Raiders takin' JaMarcus.

Which means it's ...

Brady Quinn, Adrian Peterson, Joe Thomas, or trade down

My preference?

1. Trade down
2. Quinn
3. Peterson
4. Joe Thomas


Well, that follows my mock for 1 & 2.

If JT is there at #3 and with CJ already gone, who will Tampa Take?

You know Arizona would love to get JT, so do we have a possible partner?

Good chance that AD/Quinn will still be there at #5.
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Unread postby furls » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:58 pm

That Romeo/Weiss connection that concerns you so much... they've got a lot of f-ing rings.

Maybe they know something about football and football players.


They have a lot of F'ing rings as ASSISTANT COACHES. Neither has shown the ability to coach the other side of the ball AT ALL.

ND has not improved one bit on defense since Weiss got there and the Browns are an offensive disaster. While it is nice to point out rings, it is not quite like the Patriots have gone down the toilet since their departures. Both are overrated and both of their teams are going to regret having them as head coaches in the end.

It is just a matter of time before people start demanding more out of fat bastard, and we all know how tenuous Crennel's toehold on this team is, so please, don't ever mention those rings as hallmarks of either's head coaching prowess, both are obviously overpaid assistants right now.

My dad always said, "People always get promoted exactly one level beyond their competence level." I have known some that have gone several levels beyond their competence, but that is a story for another post. It makes sense if you think about it, generally people get promoted until they languish somewhere, Crennel is obviously languishing now, and I give Weiss two more years before people start wondering why ND is still struggling to compete with the national powers.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:02 pm

That Romeo/Weiss connection that concerns you so much... they've got a lot of f-ing rings.

Maybe they know something about football and football players.


Well shit. My bad. Maybe they do. Maybe Charlie Weiss has a different agenda now. I don't know. All I was saying is I didn't think the Browns would take Quinn before, but if they did it would have a lot to do with intimate knowledge of the kid from Charlie. Since it appears that is not there? Well, good we can move on from the Rick Mirer chat.

You know Arizona would love to get JT, so do we have a possible partner?


Well, if we don't take him, Tampa ain't taking him, so why would Arizona trade up to get him?
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The O-Line and Cap Allocation

Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:43 pm

Schaffer
Bentley
Steinbach
Andruzzi
McKinney

Enough. Savage does not care whether these recent FA's make the unit into the Wooten-Hickerson anchored lines or paper mache, we have (rightly or wrongly) spent enough on the O-Line. It matters little if we like it or not. We will not draft Joe Thomas at 3. Levi Brown at 12 with a trade down? Maybe. Guards in rounds 3 and later? Probably. Top 3 pick spent on another O-Lineman? No, it's WAY too much cap space allocated to a single unit. It will not happen. And if it does, it puts Savage into Matt Millen territory. It would be a blunder of epic proportions.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:04 pm

Schaffer
Bentley
Steinbach
Andruzzi
McKinney


What exactly is that? 2 starters. One guy out for the year. Another guy with serious neck issues. And Joe Andruzzi. When he is the 3rd healthiest of the 5 you list, you might want to make a new list.

Sit back and imagine. 2008:

LT - Joe Thomas
LG - Eric Steinbach
C - Hank Fraley
RG - LeCharles Bentley
RT - Kevin Shafer

That is a top 3 offensive line in football. If Bentley doesn't make it back, then the 3rd round guard you are in love with can step in, and it is still top 5. I could run for 3 yards a carry behind that line. Now you are ready to start having your impact offensive players, having a chance.

There is no "maximum" budget. I KNOW, for a fact, that the Browns called Dielmen AFTER they had Steinbech signed and offered him a matching deal. So obviously, Phil does not think another 7 million/year is overkill.

we have (rightly or wrongly) spent enough on the O-Line


You almost get it right here, but not quite. Rightly or wrongly most certainly matters. If we had a decent line from what we had spent, fine. We don't. We have the worst line in the NFL. It doesn't matter what you put around it.

We will not draft Joe Thomas at 3. Levi Brown at 12 with a trade down? Maybe


Assenine. So 4 million/year more for the o-line is cool, but 7 is too much?

Guards in rounds 3 and later? Probably


So what, Ryan Tucker at RT? Hopefully the 3rd round guard is ready to replace Andruzzi? We must really hate the QB.

Top 3 pick spent on another O-Lineman?


Did I miss the other top 3 pick for the o-line?

And if it does, it puts Savage into Matt Millen territory


Stop it. Drafting a left tackle to build the foundation for your team is not even close to taking 3 WR's in 4 years. Wide receivers are the worst investment in a draft. Millen took them 3 out of 4.
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Unread postby mattvan1 » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:14 pm

Sorry, there is a formula. It's the cap allocation. I don't care who is injured, who got hit by a bus, who has mental issues - Phil Savage will not spend the number 3 pick on Joe Thomas. The guarenteed money difference between 3 and 12 is huge due to the signing bonus - the salary is small.

I'm not saying what I would do - just what Phil will do.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:20 pm

It's the cap allocation.


So if Peyton MAnning gets hit by a bus, the Colts wouldn't sign another QB, because of cap allocation?

The guarenteed money difference between 3 and 12 is huge due to the signing bonus - the salary is small.


They are spending the same amount of money, no matter the position that is taken. It makes no difference the position listed to one's name.

I'm not saying what I would do - just what Phil will do.


Well, you should have started with this. If I knew, that you knew what Phil was going to do, I wouldn't have wasted all this time.
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Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:40 am

They are spending the same amount of money, no matter the position that is taken. It makes no difference the position listed to one's name.

But it does matter, because to allocate the amount of cap money across all of the needs, it's not wise to spend an excessive amount in a particular area. You need to pick and choose where you are going to pay future money. Granted, it won't matter as much this year, or even next. But when it comes time to resign some of the key position players outside of the O-Line, Savage wil need enough $$$ to do so. I get the whole LT is the anchor, and if we were a decent team looking to solidify that position I could see drafting Thomas. But this team has so many holes, and has already spent quite a bit (admitedly without results - agreed) on the O-Line. It's time to look at another unit, at least at number 3. It's not that I do not expect any linemen to be drafted next weekend - I just don't see it at the top of the first round.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:05 am

Pup wrote:They are spending the same amount of money, no matter the position that is taken. It makes no difference the position listed to one's name.


I disagree. This is one of the main reasons I don't see us going for Joe Thomas or Calvin Johnson.....cap reasons. I just can't see this team able to have two WRs making hellijack and being HUGE cap hits (two guys making up roughly 1/8 or so of the cap). Also, we already have huge money committed on the line to Bentley, Shaffer, and Steinbach. I don't know what their cap hits total, but you add Joe Thomas at #3, and I would bet too much cap space is tied into the o-line.

We have guys at the QB position making chump change. And, J-Lewis on a one year deal at RB......you do the math.
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Unread postby swerb » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:47 am

Different source, who is close to a certain Browns reciever and former Ravens QB with local ties ...

Frye is not at all popular with the veterans. They feel he is a complainer and doesn't want to suck it up and play hurt, and lacks leadership and the respect of the team. Exact quote, "they are praying for a quarterback to be the pick at #3".
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Unread postby Dozen » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:49 am

Swerb wrote:Different source, who is close to a certain Browns reciever and former Ravens QB with local ties ...

Frye is not at all popular with the veterans. They feel he is a complainer and doesn't want to suck it up and play hurt, and lacks leadership and the respect of the team. Exact quote, "they are praying for a quarterback to be the pick at #3".


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Unread postby RC » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:57 am

Swerb wrote:Exact quote, "they are praying for a quarterback to be the pick at #3".


Did anyone watch the Brady Quinn interview on Craig Fergueson on Monday night/Tuesday morning?

I watched it off my DVR last night and other than the comedy stuff Craig always does with guests, he asked Brady how he would feel if he was drafted by Cleveland at #3.

Brady basically said that he rooted for the Browns as a kid and was a huge Kosar fan.

Overall, Brady seemed very well coached by his agent on exactly what to say about all draft and football related questions.

I wonder if he has the same poster on his wall as Frye did.......
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Unread postby Guest » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:37 pm

Swerb wrote:I can't see Johnson still being on the board at #3.

There's just too many teams in the 7-20 range that need him so bad. Including the local Atlanta Falcons, who already moved up a couple spots in the Matt Schaub deal. And CJ is even more highly touted of a WR prospect than Larry Fitzgerald was, which people would have thought unthinkable at the time.

And I got the Raiders takin' JaMarcus.

Which means it's ...

Brady Quinn, Adrian Peterson, Joe Thomas, or trade down

My preference?

1. Trade down
2. Quinn
3. Peterson
4. Joe Thomas


If your source is correct, and the Browns have no interest in Quinn (too much to hope for), and JMR and CJ are gone, then the only choices are:

1. Trade down
2. Peterson
3. Joe Thomas

Unless they got themselves a secret boner for Gaines Adams, which isn't outside the realm of possibility, but still doubtful.

Trading down would be superb, but easier said than done, so it looks to me like AP at #3.

As far as the veterans not liking Frye - that doesn't bother me 'cause I doubt he would win the QB job over DA in a head to head contest.
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Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:07 pm

Swerb wrote:Different source, who is close to a certain Browns reciever and former Ravens QB with local ties ...

Frye is not at all popular with the veterans. They feel he is a complainer and doesn't want to suck it up and play hurt, and lacks leadership and the respect of the team. Exact quote, "they are praying for a quarterback to be the pick at #3".


So he doesn't have "it" ? LOL
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Unread postby jb » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:28 pm

Rich, ask your source if he's heard anything about an Alan Faneca sign & trade.....
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Just to add to the mix

Unread postby The Truth » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:18 am

Below is a little bit of information I have been able to come across due to a couple well-informed individuals within and/or close to the Browns organization.

Take it for what it's worth. Some of you guys here know me, some not, but I have been around and close to the team/players for a long time.

Not saying this is what is going to happen on draft-day, but some of the scenario's and such discussed.

    The Browns have seriously looked at Thomas, but not at #3. They like what he has to offer and believe he will be a very good left tackle.

    The team has not ruled out Quinn. At the present time (Tuesday afternoon), he was much in the mix at #3. The Browns would like to move down a couple spots to select Quinn, if the others are off the board.

    If Russell were to be on the board at #3, he will be the selection.

    If Johnson is on the board at #3 and Russell off the board, the Browns have planned (expect) a potential trade offer. The team has also concluded they could select Johnson at #3, though they have a significant investment in Edwards.

    If Russell and Johnson are off the board and a significant trade offer is not offered, Quinn, Peterson, Thomas and Gaines Adams are all mentioned.

    There are discussions going back and forth in the organization where the Browns would/could select the following:
    OT in 1st......QB in 2nd
    QB in 1st......OL in 2nd
    QB in 1st......CB in 2nd
    RB in 1st......OL in 2nd

    Also, there has been discussions about moving back up into the 1st round if certain players are available. Indications are there is a CB and QB the Browns have a serious interest in.
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On Faneca

Unread postby The Truth » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:21 am

JB,

No on Faneca, not even between the Steelers and Cardinals.

How do I know this because I stayed at a Residence Inn in Middleburgh Hts once or twice.

You'll understand, if you think hard enough!

And, "NO NAMES PLEASE"

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Unread postby pup » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:51 am

Well, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, and my source says, if they cannot trade down, they are definitely taking Joe Thomas.

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Unread postby consigliere » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:04 am

I think the only pick they would make that would piss me off would be Joe Thomas. We could use him for sure, but I just don't see the value at #3 where you can get almost as good a player with the 2nd round pick.

Give me Quinn, Russell, A Pete or a trade down.....please.
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Unread postby Dozen » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:05 am

Pup wrote:Well, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, and my source says, if they cannot trade down, they are definitely taking Joe Thomas.

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/17131246.htm



Give me Quinn, Russell, A Pete or a trade down.....please.


Russell,AP, or Thomas..........I'd rather have Thomas than Quinn personally
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Re: On Faneca

Unread postby jb » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:31 am

The Truth wrote:JB,

No on Faneca, not even between the Steelers and Cardinals.

How do I know this because I stayed at a Residence Inn in Middleburgh Hts once or twice.

You'll understand, if you think hard enough!

And, "NO NAMES PLEASE"

OUT


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As always, muchos gracias.

I've also heard dining at Max and Irma's leads to similar wisdom.
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Unread postby Lebowski » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:19 pm

Well I certainly can't reconcile ''The Source'' vs ''The Truth'' on the comments regarding Quinn. One says he isn't an option...the other says Savage is strongly considering him. Here's hoping The Source got this one right. Give me Peterson or a trade down.
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