One & Only Official Cam Newton Discussion Thread

[jb]

This is a place holder to be completed at aproximately 9:30 am EST on 1/14/11 cause like I have to work now.

_______________________

Ran L 8, I am now ready.

Since when did it become a rule that a college QB had to be absolutely, positively, NFL ready in order to draft him n the top third of the draft ? I am guessing when the slary cap made it an imperative for this kid to play right away, and fans went from patient to the SD view of the world. That is to say, I WANT AN OOMPA LOOPA AND I WANT IT NOW!

Well kids, the CBA as you knew it that excluded a rookie salary scale is now dead. DEAD I TELL YOU (see my bseball bat I'm waiving?) The rules have changed. This draft will probbaly occur, but no signings until a new CBA is in place. A rookie salary cap is one of two hills the owners will die on (18 game RS is the other) .

So you draft Cam Newton at 6 overall as the Browns. here's why.

hve you seen the kid play over a body of his regual season?

Duh.

For most, this would be good enough. But Peeker's bllod supply to his brain has been earratic as of late, so I continue.

The rookie cap and the overall suckitude of the Browns not having a high cap number mens you can carry and start McCoy and his 3rd round money for the next season, maybe even the season after in my opinion. This allows Cam to learn the NFL in the same manner that ne Steve Mcnair did when he went 4th overall and was similarly steak tartar as far as being Sunday ready. All he did was have a borderline HOF career.

You play Colt next season and the season after that. Then you know for sure whether he is lightening in a bottle or Eric Zeier. Meanwhile, Cam abides. Learns. get's ready.

If Colt is the shizznit you play Cam in mop up roles where he can look like god sham god. With his skills, grooming, and teams' desperations, I guarantee cam nets you two first round draft choices, just at the time we are gonna have our team fecal matter together to make a run if Patches and Heckert are what Walrus hopes they are.

If Colt is meh, feh, or blows, you have your franchise QB ready to go. You aren't back to the drawing board, hoping.

Cam's stats are really solid. Despite rust and yips in the BCS bowl, Cam has a pretty nice throwing motion. It isn't some BS crank up or hard side arm. His comletion percentage was damn good, and except for the BCS game he's shown he's pretty accurate, esp given his other gifts. Cam Newton isn't ready to play right away by any stretch, but he is a once in a lifetime talent and he is a winner, big time. He's Big Jen who runs about 1.0 faster in the 40.

Lastly, I can do this yet again, but the Browns are heded for a reboot and rebuild yet again. The D must be rebuilt and coached up. The O needs to learn a new system and retool to fit the WCO. I hope those of you pissing and moaning about close losses and 5 - 11 this year STFU when we look like an expansion team going 2 - 14 next season, if there is a next season, casue it is coming as sure as I'm typing this.


Now is the perfect time to do this and build the foundation. cam or no Cam, it's gonna take 3 seasons to be any good at all, minimum. May as well buy the stock with the highest upside.

[gotribe31]

You could have stopped at "about"

[Prosecutor]

You could have stopped at "about"

Yeah, and the "Why" is also superfluous.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

I repeat: Million dollar body, ten cent head. This is never a good combination for a professional QB.

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

I repeat: Million dollar body, ten cent head. This is never a good combination for a professional QB.

Sounds like he's just like Roethlisberger in every aspect.

[JCoz]

I repeat: Million dollar body, ten cent head. This is never a good combination for a professional QB.

Sounds like he's just like Roethlisberger in every aspect.

Sounds like? sure. But those that watched Ben in college would never see much similarity IMO.

[gotribe31]

I repeat: Million dollar body, ten cent head. This is never a good combination for a professional QB.

Sounds like he's just like Roethlisberger in every aspect.

Sounds like? sure. But those that watched Ben in college would never see much similarity IMO.

Sure, Rapistburger has a better arm, is more more accurate, moves better against the rush and makes better decisions (ON the field...they're pretty similar off the field). But other than that, they're pretty much the same QB.

[JCoz]

I repeat: Million dollar body, ten cent head. This is never a good combination for a professional QB.

Sounds like he's just like Roethlisberger in every aspect.

Sounds like? sure. But those that watched Ben in college would never see much similarity IMO.

Sure, Rapistburger has a better arm, is more more accurate, moves better against the rush and makes better decisions (ON the field...they're pretty similar off the field). But other than that, they're pretty much the same QB.

Agreed.

[motherscratcher]

Raising my eyebrows. Tapping my wristwatch.

[peeker643]

Don't hold your breath y'all. Been waiting for days. weeks and months for things JB promised within a few hours

And if ultimately he recommends taking $Cam with pick #6 it should be clear who the idiot is if it's not already. As always, I'll be hear to translate what he writes into legible and coherent thoughts and sentences.

Maybe he meant 930am Pacific?

GoTribe and Prosecutor, you just made the list.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Cam's stats are really solid. Despite rust and yips in the BCS bowl, Cam has a pretty nice throwing motion. It isn't some BS crank up or hard side arm. His comletion percentage was damn good, and except for the BCS game he's shown he's pretty accurate, esp given his other gifts.

Nobody will disagree he's an all-world athlete. So what makes him more Tom Brady than Mark Sanchez or pre-Scared Straight Michael Vick?

[jb]

I repeat: Million dollar body, ten cent head. This is never a good combination for a professional QB.

Sounds like he's just like Roethlisberger in every aspect.

Sounds like? sure. But those that watched Ben in college would never see much similarity IMO.

Bull crap.

[jb]

I repeat: Million dollar body, ten cent head. This is never a good combination for a professional QB.

Sounds like he's just like Roethlisberger in every aspect.

Sounds like? sure. But those that watched Ben in college would never see much similarity IMO.

Sure, Rapistburger has a better arm, is more more accurate, moves better against the rush and makes better decisions (ON the field...they're pretty similar off the field). But other than that, they're pretty much the same QB.

Admit it, you didn't watch much of Ben at MU and only watched the BCS game, didn't you, Al ?

Because this is complete crap. Against better competition in the RS Cam had a very, very high comp % , had escapability remiscent of Cunningham, and made plays up the ass trhu the air.

[jb]

Cam's stats are really solid. Despite rust and yips in the BCS bowl, Cam has a pretty nice throwing motion. It isn't some BS crank up or hard side arm. His comletion percentage was damn good, and except for the BCS game he's shown he's pretty accurate, esp given his other gifts.

Nobody will disagree he's an all-world athlete. So what makes him more Tom Brady than Mark Sanchez or pre-Scared Straight Michael Vick?

What makes Darius and Fairly more Seymour than Big Penny?

[Triple-S]

get me a damn wide receiver.

we can worry about what to do when mccoy f's up later.

[jb]

get me a damn wide receiver.

we can worry about what to do when mccoy f's up later.

Right. Because this is a quick fix.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

What makes Darius and Fairly more Seymour than Big Penny?

Que pasa?

Show me how Cam can handle what Lebeau and Belichick throw at him on Sunday and you're getting somewhere. Until then, all I'm hearing is Mel Kiper pablum.

[Triple-S]

get me a damn wide receiver.

we can worry about what to do when mccoy f's up later.

Right. Because this is a quick fix.

dude, if McCoy f's up, just go ditka and get luck next year.

No one in this current class is worth salivating over, nor is really worth investing a first round and possible franchise guy in.

Besides, It's not holmgren's style. His favorite thing to do is collect and/or trade for a 2nd/3rd round QB and turn him into his system QB. As said in the previous thread, if anything I can see him maybe making a move for Matt Flynn.

[peeker643]

This is a place holder to be completed at aproximately 9:30 am EST on 1/14/11 cause like I have to work now.

_______________________

Ran L 8, I am now ready.

Since when did it become a rule that a college QB had to be absolutely, positively, NFL ready in order to draft him n the top third of the draft ? I am guessing when the slary cap made it an imperative for this kid to play right away, and fans went from patient to the SD view of the world. That is to say, I WANT AN OOMPA LOOPA AND I WANT IT NOW!

Well kids, the CBA as you knew it that excluded a rookie salary scale is now dead. DEAD I TELL YOU (see my bseball bat I'm waiving?) The rules have changed. This draft will probbaly occur, but no signings until a new CBA is in place. A rookie salary cap is one of two hills the owners will die on (18 game RS is the other) .

So you draft Cam Newton at 6 overall as the Browns. here's why.

hve you seen the kid play over a body of his regual season?

Duh.

For most, this would be good enough. But Peeker's bllod supply to his brain has been earratic as of late, so I continue.

The rookie cap and the overall suckitude of the Browns not having a high cap number mens you can carry and start McCoy and his 3rd round money for the next season, maybe even the season after in my opinion. This allows Cam to learn the NFL in the same manner that ne Steve Mcnair did when he went 4th overall and was similarly steak tartar as far as being Sunday ready. All he did was have a borderline HOF career.

You play Colt next season and the season after that. Then you know for sure whether he is lightening in a bottle or Eric Zeier. Meanwhile, Cam abides. Learns. get's ready.

If Colt is the shizznit you play Cam in mop up roles where he can look like god sham god. With his skills, grooming, and teams' desperations, I guarantee cam nets you two first round draft choices, just at the time we are gonna have our team fecal matter together to make a run if Patches and Heckert are what Walrus hopes they are.

If Colt is meh, feh, or blows, you have your franchise QB ready to go. You aren't back to the drawing board, hoping.

Cam's stats are really solid. Despite rust and yips in the BCS bowl, Cam has a pretty nice throwing motion. It isn't some BS crank up or hard side arm. His comletion percentage was damn good, and except for the BCS game he's shown he's pretty accurate, esp given his other gifts. Cam Newton isn't ready to play right away by any stretch, but he is a once in a lifetime talent and he is a winner, big time. He's Big Jen who runs about 1.0 faster in the 40.

Lastly, I can do this yet again, but the Browns are heded for a reboot and rebuild yet again. The D must be rebuilt and coached up. The O needs to learn a new system and retool to fit the WCO. I hope those of you pissing and moaning about close losses and 5 - 11 this year STFU when we look like an expansion team going 2 - 14 next season, if there is a next season, casue it is coming as sure as I'm typing this.


Now is the perfect time to do this and build the foundation. cam or no Cam, it's gonna take 3 seasons to be any good at all, minimum. May as well buy the stock with the highest upside.

Excellent. Two hours late and that's it? He's big, strong and doesn't have terrible mechanics. Awesome. Thanks for all of that.

Allow me to tell you why I don't want him at #6.

1. You can get immediate help for your rebuild w/o taking that leap.
2. You don't know if McCoy is the shit as you said. If he is then there is no slate of games for Cam to get time and reps.

And here, some actual objective stuff from others who know more than you and this idiot:

Final word: Cam Newton will be the most polarizing player in the 2011 NFL Draft. It's easy to see why some will fall madly in love him and why others will go mad if their team drafts him.

Newton is a rare talent. With his size, athleticism and arm strength, Newton has more potential than any player in this year's draft. That alone will get him picked in the first round. He also displays great leadership skills that are impossible to teach. In only one year at Auburn, the Tigers rallied around Newton and he led them to a national title.

But his negatives may scare some teams off completely. Newton will have to greatly refine all of his mechanical flaws if he wants to succeed in the pros. His field vision and pocket poise are average, at best.

Great! Only ALL of his mechanics need refined. That sounds hopeful. Lacks poise? Against a college rush where his line dominated 90% of the time? Tremendous. That should NOT be an issue in the NFL at all.

This one's worse (http://tommeltonscouting.wordpress.com/ ... ng-report/) :

The comparison I would make

is Vince Young with a cleaner throwing motion and better arm strength, but probably a little less impressive accuracy. However, Vince Young would very likely not be picked as high now as he was when he initially entered the draft. The reason Newton will be drafted as a QB is because he has demonstrated incredible potential this year doing the things he has done this year in the SEC. Obviously the offense he plays in does not translate to the NFL at all, and it coaches him to make one read and then look to scramble to extend the play, but the key component of evaluating Newton will be evaluating his intelligence and his intangibles. If he is a smart guy and he can impress scouts and coaches with X’s and O’s at the combine or any other time they interview him, his stock will shoot up. And if they talk to him and come to the conclusion that he has learned from his past mistakes and has a good work ethic then his stock will shoot up even more.

It’s tricky to evaluate him because you can look at him and see him for what he is and say: He’s a great athlete that can throw the ball really far and make great plays with his legs. That doesn’t sound like a good NFL QB. But then some people will look at him and say: If I can work with him for a year or two to improve his footwork and clean up his mechanics and get him comfortable going through progressions and reads, as well as working from under center regularly so he can learn to do 3, 5 and 7 step drops, then boy… I could have a revolutionary talent on my hands.

I personally think he will end up something like Vince Young. He will be able to win some games despite his sometimes erratic accuracy, but ultimately I think he will be a disappointment compared to what he was able to do in college. Too many things have to go right for him to overcome his issues as a prospect including: dramatically improving his footwork, teaching him how to do 3, 5 and 7 step drops, teaching him a pro-style offense and helping him learn how to go through more than one progression consistently, developing actual pocket poise to the point where he can buy time in the pocket without scrambling outside of the tackle box… There’s just a laundry list of things he has to work on, and even if he has great ability and good work ethic it will be a serious chore to overcome all of this. Best case scenario I think he becomes a 56-58% passer who can put up some big games.

http://nfldraftmonsters.com/scouting/sc ... am-newton/

As I said it was tough to find a lot of window throws on Newton, and what I did find when charting them, wasn’t very impressive (that amazing sideline fourth down conversion against Alabama not withstanding). He has a tendency to throw the ball high, and not spin it cleanly when throwing into tight coverage, especially on shorter routes. Auburn tried a WR mid screen early against Alabama, and the receiver actually had to jump to catch the football. The lost time in the receiver resetting his feet, allowed the Crimson Tide linebacker to shed his block and make the tackle for no gain.

Mechanical:This is quite possibly the weakest area of Newton’s game. His mechanics are quite often down right awful. He has a propensity to throw off balance and off his back foot, even when not facing any measurable pressure. Both throws I mentioned above featured Newton doing some sort of ridiculous “hop pass” despite have absolutely no reason to. A good NFL QB coach will do nothing but footwork drills for the first few weeks he’s in camp.

Pre/Post snap reads: Another glaring weakness in Newton’s game is the lack of pre-snap reads. This isn’t his fault, it’s a product of Auburn’s offensive style, but taking the audible ability out of the hands of your quarterback, does a disservice in preparing him for life in the NFL. Since all of the calls come from the sideline, Newton will be behind the curve in diagnosing defensive looks at the NFL level.

Post snap, Newton has been given mostly simplified half field reads, thanks to the offensive system he’s in. Most pass plays are designed 1-2 reads and then for Newton to take off. We’ve seen quarterbacks struggle mightily to transition from this type of offense before (Vince Young). I’m not saying Newton can’t, I’m just saying he certainly has his work cut out for him.

Overall Newton is an intriguing prospect. He will be a project for whatever teams eventually drafts him. Personally given the amount of work that’s going to have to go into him, as well as the potential character risk, I wouldn’t touch him before the second round. You just don’t make a guy with as many things swirling above him as Cam Newton, the face of your franchise. That said, given the raw physicality, size, and athleticism, I can definitely see a team that thinks they can coach him up, snapping him up in the late first round, where salaries aren’t prohibitively high to sit a guy for awhile.

http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-falcons-bl ... lcons_blog

Heisman Trophy winner Cam Newton, of Auburn and Westlake High, needs to stay in college and work on his God awful mechanics, according to Russ Lande, a former NFL Scout, who heads the War Room for the Sporting News.

Lande, who had his early Mock Draft up in Sporting News Today on Wednesday, doesn’t have Newton going in the first round. He does have three other quarterbacks being selected in the first round.

Lande considers Newton to be two to three years away from being ready to play in the NFL as a traditional quarterback.

I'll provide more if you like. Those were just going down the scouting report lists. Nothing cherry-picked and you can do the same. Tried to hit on the upside as well because clearly an athlete with that size and arm has upside.

It's just not #6 worthy when you need so much more.

But what do I know?

[Erie Warrior]

Big Ben was twice the collegiate QB that Newton is. Not twice the athlete, but leaps and bounds better as a QB. Newton is Jamarky 2. There are issues with his footwork, accuracy, touch, presnap reads, throwing on the run (specifically keeping his eyes down field), and throwing with anticipation.

Would you be happy is the Browns drafted another college DE who is athletic and ope to turn him into an OLB? On a team full of holes, why would you spend a top 10 pick and hope a guy can play in 3 years? Bullshit. If the kid falls to the 3rd or 4th, take him. No way, for this team, in the first 2 rounds.

[Triple-S]

I want to see the Browns hit on three picks this year.

that's it. and I know that's a lot, but if you do that? You're again continuing to build on that talent you have on the roster already. You sure as shit are not going to have an instant "Hit" on offense with picking $cam.

again, the scenario I see playing out and playing out from a mile away is they are going WR first round. Heckgren wants go offense big time this year, and what was the biggest f-ing need this past season other than RT?

You ain't winning in this league with Robiskie, Massaqui and Stuckey at WR, don't give a shit who the QB is. That needs to be fixed. Get me a playmaker and a poor mans Welkahh.

You draft $cam with the first pick you're denying this team to have a chance at winning at all, and preventing some development on offense.

[Ziner]

JB is really going to regret this thread.

[JCoz]

I repeat: Million dollar body, ten cent head. This is never a good combination for a professional QB.

Sounds like he's just like Roethlisberger in every aspect.

Sounds like? sure. But those that watched Ben in college would never see much similarity IMO.

Sure, Rapistburger has a better arm, is more more accurate, moves better against the rush and makes better decisions (ON the field...they're pretty similar off the field). But other than that, they're pretty much the same QB.

Admit it, you didn't watch much of Ben at MU and only watched the BCS game, didn't you, Al ?

Because this is complete crap. Against better competition in the RS Cam had a very, very high comp % , had escapability remiscent of Cunningham, and made plays up the ass trhu the air.

WTF does that have to do with a comparison to Big Ben, of which there is none. Sorry.

[danwismar]

I love Cam Newton's game, and agree completely with JB's take on his sky-high upside.

But....I've got to come down on Peeker's side on this one.

This team is crying for playmakers on both sides of the ball...mostly at DE and WR, but also at LB and DB and RB. Good teams can afford to take a 3-year project at #6. This team can't.

[jb]

Do I need more links?

Sure, bring them on. They don't tell me anything you and I don't know. A monkey can post links, and a cat can run across a keyboard and add what you did.

He's beyond raw. No shit.

You're take is still short sighted, non-strategic, and therefore idiotic.

You give this kid two years of the coaching we just hired and if he's coachable with his talent he should be absolutely incredible. If you uncover he's an uncoachable butthead, that changes everything.

[jb]

Big Ben was twice the collegiate QB that Newton is. Not twice the athlete, but leaps and bounds better as a QB. Newton is Jamarky 2. There are issues with his footwork, accuracy, touch, presnap reads, throwing on the run (specifically keeping his eyes down field), and throwing with anticipation.
.

IOW he's raw and needs coaching.

I watched a shitload of Ben at Miami. Know what he did? What he does now when he's at his best. He runs around when the play breaks down and chucks it. But he did it against a lot of scrub MAC db's. I still can't believe his bs transated on Sunday, but it does.

Now, he's more polished and coached up and runs an offense.

Because what you are in college is not what you are in the NFL after a few seasons.

[jb]

JB is really going to regret this thread.

I'll take all y'all on.

[JCoz]

Do I need more links?

Sure, bring them on. They don't tell me anything you and I don't know. A monkey can post links, and a cat can run across a keyboard and add what you did.

He's beyond raw. No shit.

You're take is still short sighted, non-strategic, and therefore idiotic.

You give this kid two years of the coaching we just hired and if he's coachable with his talent he should be absolutely incredible. If you uncover he's an uncoachable butthead, that changes everything.

This seems like a gigantic waste of time JB.

This whole thread, your whole post idea.

Just tell me what chance you think there is that Heckgren drafts Newton?

Cause if it ain't even double digits, WTF are you talking about this for?

[jb]

What makes Darius and Fairly more Seymour than Big Penny?

Que pasa?

Show me how Cam can handle what Lebeau and Belichick throw at him on Sunday and you're getting somewhere. Until then, all I'm hearing is Mel Kiper pablum.

JFC, in 2011 he can't. He needs a couple years development before you can think of playing him. Like Steve McNair.

Do you read posts?

[Erie Warrior]

.
He's beyond raw. No shit.

You're take is still short sighted, non-strategic, and therefore idiotic.

You give this kid two years of the coaching we just hired and if he's coachable with his talent he should be absolutely incredible. If you uncover he's an uncoachable butthead, that changes everything.

Dude, really? You're joshin' us, right? I like the effort, but the ship is going down.

The good news is that we have over 3 months to fill this thread with links from scouts and coaches and workouts proving both sides, and still missing the point.

The Cleveland Browns can't gamble in the first 3 rounds. No high upside, raw talent, smooth hips bullshit. They need players, not projects.

[gotribe31]

I repeat: Million dollar body, ten cent head. This is never a good combination for a professional QB.

Sounds like he's just like Roethlisberger in every aspect.

Sounds like? sure. But those that watched Ben in college would never see much similarity IMO.

Sure, Rapistburger has a better arm, is more more accurate, moves better against the rush and makes better decisions (ON the field...they're pretty similar off the field). But other than that, they're pretty much the same QB.

Admit it, you didn't watch much of Ben at MU and only watched the BCS game, didn't you, Al ?

Because this is complete crap. Against better competition in the RS Cam had a very, very high comp % , had escapability remiscent of Cunningham, and made plays up the ass trhu the air.

I haven't caught up on the thread yet, but I will admit neither of those things. I watched a lot of Big Ben in college, and was screaming for Butch to draft him. I saw plenty of sCam in the $EC this year as well. I will fully admit that he played much better in the regular season than he did in the bowl game. But I didn't find him to be an exceptionally accurate passer. High completion % doesn't always = accurate passer, especially in college. Terrelle Pryor completed 65% of his passes in 2010, and the knock on him is that he's not an accurate passer. Newton completed 66%. I didn't think he moved well in the pocket under pressure. I think he has a big arm, he's a great runner and he's an exceptional athlete. He's more Big Ben than JaMarcus Russell.

[Mavre]

This is a place holder to be completed at aproximately 9:30 am EST on 1/14/11 cause like I have to work now.

_______________________

Ran L 8, I am now ready.

Since when did it become a rule that a college QB had to be absolutely, positively, NFL ready in order to draft him n the top third of the draft ? I am guessing when the slary cap made it an imperative for this kid to play right away, and fans went from patient to the SD view of the world. That is to say, I WANT AN OOMPA LOOPA AND I WANT IT NOW!

Well kids, the CBA as you knew it that excluded a rookie salary scale is now dead. DEAD I TELL YOU (see my bseball bat I'm waiving?) The rules have changed. This draft will probbaly occur, but no signings until a new CBA is in place. A rookie salary cap is one of two hills the owners will die on (18 game RS is the other) .

So you draft Cam Newton at 6 overall as the Browns. here's why.

hve you seen the kid play over a body of his regual season?

Duh.

For most, this would be good enough. But Peeker's bllod supply to his brain has been earratic as of late, so I continue.

The rookie cap and the overall suckitude of the Browns not having a high cap number mens you can carry and start McCoy and his 3rd round money for the next season, maybe even the season after in my opinion. This allows Cam to learn the NFL in the same manner that ne Steve Mcnair did when he went 4th overall and was similarly steak tartar as far as being Sunday ready. All he did was have a borderline HOF career.

You play Colt next season and the season after that. Then you know for sure whether he is lightening in a bottle or Eric Zeier. Meanwhile, Cam abides. Learns. get's ready.

If Colt is the shizznit you play Cam in mop up roles where he can look like god sham god. With his skills, grooming, and teams' desperations, I guarantee cam nets you two first round draft choices, just at the time we are gonna have our team fecal matter together to make a run if Patches and Heckert are what Walrus hopes they are.

If Colt is meh, feh, or blows, you have your franchise QB ready to go. You aren't back to the drawing board, hoping.

Cam's stats are really solid. Despite rust and yips in the BCS bowl, Cam has a pretty nice throwing motion. It isn't some BS crank up or hard side arm. His comletion percentage was damn good, and except for the BCS game he's shown he's pretty accurate, esp given his other gifts. Cam Newton isn't ready to play right away by any stretch, but he is a once in a lifetime talent and he is a winner, big time. He's Big Jen who runs about 1.0 faster in the 40.

Lastly, I can do this yet again, but the Browns are heded for a reboot and rebuild yet again. The D must be rebuilt and coached up. The O needs to learn a new system and retool to fit the WCO. I hope those of you pissing and moaning about close losses and 5 - 11 this year STFU when we look like an expansion team going 2 - 14 next season, if there is a next season, casue it is coming as sure as I'm typing this.


Now is the perfect time to do this and build the foundation. cam or no Cam, it's gonna take 3 seasons to be any good at all, minimum. May as well buy the stock with the highest upside.

JB I am a rookie on this board and know that you are a huge contributor to this beautiful forum....but i gotta go with peeker here bud. We cant afford to use #6 on a qb when we have so many other needs

[Mavre]

The Cleveland Browns can't gamble in the first 3 rounds. No high upside, raw talent, smooth hips bullshit. They need players, not projects.[/quote]

Right on EW...gotta be sure picks here

[peeker643]

Do I need more links?

Sure, bring them on. They don't tell me anything you and I don't know. A monkey can post links, and a cat can run across a keyboard and add what you did.

He's beyond raw. No shit.

You're take is still short sighted, non-strategic, and therefore idiotic.

You give this kid two years of the coaching we just hired and if he's coachable with his talent he should be absolutely incredible. If you uncover he's an uncoachable butthead, that changes everything.

Right. Because they need to draft a 'maybe' when there are other guys who will fill prominent holes on the day they're drafted.

By all means JB, continue to post how cats crawling across keyboards offer more and idiocy abounds everywhere other than with a guy who wants to take a flyer at #6 on a guy he admits is raw and flawed and who has a better than average chance to amount to nothing and way better than average chance to be at least a three year project. Because there's no fucking way anything better will be available next year and those three year projects are such a rare commodity.

And please, please hide your ignorance behind calling me an idiot and/or believing your take is enlightened because it's a minority opinion.

This thread is making you look like a caricature of what you actually are. If I'm drafting 22-32 maybe. Because that means I probably have some talent and depth and might be able to wait on a mechanically fucked up kid that's never read a defense or called an audible to hopefully not be too stupid to learn it all against actual NFL defenses.

Not at #6 dude. Not with this group. Go get guys that can help tomorrow. Your crush of the day will be there next year too.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

He's beyond raw. No shit.

Show me a guy who was that raw, drafted that high, and went on to be successful enough to hoist a Lombardi trophy.

[jb]

The Cleveland Browns can't gamble in the first 3 rounds. No high upside, raw talent, smooth hips bullshit. They need players, not projects.

Right on EW...gotta be sure picks here[/quote]


Ha.

First feel free to disagree all you want. Its what we do here.

Second, the concept of a "safe" draft pick is laughable. Courtney Brown was nature's Most perfect Football Player. Everything about him screamed UNBUSTABLE. Guess what?

You draft for upside as much as fit to my way of thinking. Safe is good enough to get you beat.

Everything about the next year screams re-build/re-boot, and you don't hav eto read tea leaves. This is lining up to be an expnasion year bad team. New players for new systems taught by new coches with the labor stoppage looking overhead and the players talking about hard line. I've connected those dots 67 times, so I'm not doing 68.

And don't you or any other lurkjers hesitate. DIVE IN!

And know that I love peeker like the vennison eating red neck wanna be idiot brother I never had.

[jb]

He's beyond raw. No shit.

Show me a guy who was that raw, drafted that high, and went on to be successful enough to hoist a Lombardi trophy.

Terry Bradshaw. Louisiana Tech and rawer than Newton. 4.

Jeff Hostetler. Veer QB at WVU. 1.

Doug Williams. Multiple I for a SWAC team. 1.

Kurt Warner. Northern Iowa. FCS. Nuff said. 1.

Bart Starr. 17th round draft pck from run, run, run Bear. 2.

And Steve Mcnair came within a one yard shoelace tackle if you want to be all technical/artificial and shit, fine, throw him out. i won't. i don't do the dumbass "he never won a SB so he's not an elete QB" thing. Butt I did here to show you you're all wet.


Seriously, I don't know how many time you seemingly illiterate morons are gonna try to pile on for the same issue that I led off with: Cam Newton is hopelessly raw an should not play for probably two seasons while he studies, works, and gets his one in a generation god given talents in line with NFL and not spread option fundamentals.

Said another way, if Tim Teabow went in round one lst draft, nd you can debate whether or hot that was dumber than a box on hammers on another line of debate, but he did, then Cam Newton is twice the performer and athlete in roughly the same offense as he with 3 fewer BCS college seasons.

[Prosecutor]

I think jb has an interesting argument. The Big Show is known for developing QBs. Charlie Frye said he learned more from Holmgren in one year than he did in all of college ball and the pros combined. Shurmur was a QB coach for seven years with the Jets and was successful with Bradford this year. If any team is set up to get every drop of potential out of a raw prospect with a big upside, we're it.

His footwork and mechanics need work? Give me a break. This guy is a superb athlete, how long could it possibly take him to get those bugs out? He needs to learn to throw off a 3-, 5-, and 7-step drop? Holy shit, what is this, Dancing with the Stars? How freaking hard can that be to learn when you're doing it every day?

However, MH and PS are also the right people to get the most out of McCoy, and his skill set fits hand in glove with the offense we're going to install. Whereas Cam looks like one of those big, rifle-armed QBs who guns the ball down field like Ben (best case), who he's been compared to in this thread, or DA (worst case).

Give Holmgren and Shurmer a year with this kid and he could be a beast. But he doesn't fit the system and the Browns would have to pass on an immediate and long term impact player to get him. It might be a good pick eventually, but I don't think MH is going there. I think he's sold on McCoy.

[Mavre]

I dont think that this year is a total rebuild. The offense is a RT WR and #2 RB away from being competitive. I say this putting faith into Mccoys development. He got invaluable expirience last year, im counting on that and his leadership to progress next year. You cant deny that ST.Clair was the downfail of our running game, which was the downfall of our passing game. Hillis wore down and we didnt have a #2 back, hopefully Hardesty can stay healthy and provide that for us. Also, the browns cant afford injuries b/c lack of depth. We can now begin to add depth to the offense.


I will say the defense will be in full scale rebuild mode for the front 7. Especially d line, if darues or fairly or quinn is avilable jump on it and begin the "process" of rebuildWe lack a playmaker on the edge serious issue. Something that is hard to find via FA, must look at the draft to , first round pick, to help w/ that.

yes courtney brown was an animal in college and didnt develop, you are correct, still stings my soul thinking about him, he looked awesome in brown n orange

[Mavre]

i suck at quoting damnit

[jb]

take a flyer at #6 on a guy he admits is raw and flawed and who has a better than average chance to amount to nothing and way better than average chance to be at least a three year project

Never wrote that. never.

I believe that given the right coaching and patience Cam Newton will be a better version of Steve McNair.

Peeker, I have also come to the conclusion that darft position within round is the most overrated commodity in the NFL. Every GD year the good teams like NE, Baltimore and Pittsburgh draft circles around us. Why? Because they draft with a strategic, lon-term plan with proven scouting departments in place with talented GM types. Not to fill a hole in 5 months.

We are gonna suck for about 2 years. And I mean suuuuuuuck. eat your Wheaties and keep the fait and spit on the tombstones in th egraveyard, but we gonna suck. One step back, two steps forward. The time has never been better to take a project with massive upside, because Julio Jones ain't gonna make Montario Hardesty into Eddie George durability-wise. Julio ain't gonna make Colt throw he ball on a rope more than 15 yards in December at CBS. Julio ain't gonna play opposite hayden, of fix the running defense, or apply a non-gimmick pass rush.

But add a Cam Newton at upside in two seasons after heckert does his thing off the field and Shurmur does his coaching and gets good at it?

That's how you create a dynasty. Get the GM,get the coach, get the franchise QB. Now I'm dropping the whole coaching thread now cause IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER. So if I'm told Shurmurr is a QB guru and caoches 'em up, why not give the man the best raw material to come out of college..... ever? Even if he is raw. sn't that what Shurmur is supposed to be able to do for us?

Why on any level of logic is that flawed?

[jb]

i suck at quoting damnit

The X command at top left will allo you to delete a post you don't want of yours. You can cut and hold what you wrote, delete the original, an dthen paste in a properly quoted new pot if you want.

[jb]

Pros:

I think jb has an interesting argument.

At the end of the day, that's all I ask.

hell, I only believe about 65, maybe 70% of what I write. But I'll be damned if I'm tellin' you mf'ers which is the 70 and what is the 30.

but I don't think MH is going there.

Totally different issue, and too soon to know for sure.

But again, I don't know how we take a mobile QB who completes over 70% of his passes and throw him out of a WCO system becsue his talent is "overqualified".

Steve Young and Brett Favre anyone?

[mitch]

He's beyond raw. No shit.

Show me a guy who was that raw, drafted that high, and went on to be successful enough to hoist a Lombardi trophy.

Terry Bradshaw. Louisiana Tech and rawer than Newton. 4.

Jeff Hostetler. Veer QB at WVU. 1.

Doug Williams. Multiple I for a SWAC team. 1.

Kurt Warner. Northern Iowa. FCS. Nuff said. 1.

Bart Starr. 17th round draft pck from run, run, run Bear. 2.

And Steve Mcnair came within a one yard shoelace tackle if you want to be all technical/artificial and shit, fine, throw him out. i won't. i don't do the dumbass "he never won a SB so he's not an elete QB" thing. Butt I did here to show you you're all wet.

So in your world, a 17th round pick is "drafted that high"?

Horse Face Hostetler was a 3rd rounder

Dougie Williams was the 17th overall, and flamed out with the team that drafted him.

Kurt Warner? I can't seem to find where he went in the first round.

McNair? You might finally have one there...at least in the "drafted that high" category, but McNair was still much more NFL ready than $Cam Newton...he wasn't in a spread offense, and he had more than one year as a starter.

And Bradshaw was so raw that he was only the consensus #1 pick. The Browns wanted to get him, but could only trade up high enough to get Mike Phipps for their Paul Warfield trade.

But you are absolutely right.

If $Scam Newton is available in the 17th round, then just like Bart Starr, Heckgren should snatch him up immediately.

[gotribe31]

Pros:

I think jb has an interesting argument.

At the end of the day, that's all I ask.

hell, I only believe about 65, maybe 70% of what I write. But I'll be damned if I'm tellin' you mf'ers which is the 70 and what is the 30.

but I don't think MH is going there.

Totally different issue, and too soon to know for sure.

But again, I don't know how we take a mobile QB who completes over 70% of his passes and throw him out of a WCO system becsue his talent is "overqualified".

Steve Young and Brett Favre anyone?

I hear what you're saying. Really, I do. But I can't talk myself into it. Especially when you throw around stats like "completes over 70% of his passes." Are we still talking about Newton's FCS numbers? Cause he completed 66.1% for Auburn this year.
http://search.espn.go.com/cameron-newto ... 4294876770

[skatingtripods]

Watching Cam Newton try to decipher a blitz is like watching Stevie Wonder try to read books without dots.

Kid's a superior athlete with good arm strength and the ability to create, but where that translates to QB at the pro level remains to be seen. If he figures it out, good for him. But that's a big if to take with the 6th pick. Or even the 38th pick, on a team devoid of talent all over the field.

Not the time or place for this. If you're Chicago picking in the 25-30 range, then why not. But not us.

[peeker643]

Why on any level of logic is that flawed?

Because you don't give up taking a player who will make your team better today on a flyer for a guy who may or may not make your team better in 3 years. Not to mention that every single year there are guys available with the physical gifts to play the position who may be one, two or three year projects who are available for far less a cost than the 6th pick in the draft.

Next year there will be athletic freaks like Cam Newton or Terrelle Pryor (who could theoretically be more evolved as a QB today but needs the same radical mechanical reformation that Newton needs. And Newton, whether people want to admit or not, is a one-year wonder who is a legit athletic freak put into a no-thought offensive system that relied on that freakish athleticism but required little if any thought from the QB).

Look, I'm not comparing Pryor to Newton other than body size and speed. I'm just saying every year there are guys like Newton available. I'm also not saying that three years down the road Newton isn't the next big thing. He appears to legitmately be a decent kid (despite the issues with Pops and his undoubted involvement), he's well spoken and surprisingly engaging.

But I don't care.

This team needs the best and most impactful players now and over the next three years. They need more than a taxi-squad QB in April with the 6th pick in the draft.

They need to build a depth of talent and overturn a large portion of the roster with guys that can play today. That guy is not Cam Newton and I don't think I'm being short sighted talking about adding talent every year in the draft or building a roster that is deep with said talent.

I understand the allure. I don't think the rationale is ridiculous.

I just don't think it's affordable now. Especially when this cycle of talented projects repeats itself every single year.

[jb]

He's beyond raw. No shit.

Show me a guy who was that raw, drafted that high, and went on to be successful enough to hoist a Lombardi trophy.

Terry Bradshaw. Louisiana Tech and rawer than Newton. 4.

Jeff Hostetler. Veer QB at WVU. 1.

Doug Williams. Multiple I for a SWAC team. 1.

Kurt Warner. Northern Iowa. FCS. Nuff said. 1.

Bart Starr. 17th round draft pck from run, run, run Bear. 2.

And Steve Mcnair came within a one yard shoelace tackle if you want to be all technical/artificial and shit, fine, throw him out. i won't. i don't do the dumbass "he never won a SB so he's not an elete QB" thing. Butt I did here to show you you're all wet.

So in your world, a 17th round pick is "drafted that high"?

Horse Face Hostetler was a 3rd rounder

Dougie Williams was the 17th overall, and flamed out with the team that drafted him.

Kurt Warner? I can't seem to find where he went in the first round.

McNair? You might finally have one there...at least in the "drafted that high" category, but McNair was still much more NFL ready than $Cam Newton...he wasn't in a spread offense, and he had more than one year as a starter.

And Bradshaw was so raw that he was only the consensus #1 pick. The Browns wanted to get him, but could only trade up high enough to get Mike Phipps for their Paul Warfield trade.

But you are absolutely right.

If $Scam Newton is available in the 17th round, then just like Bart Starr, Heckgren should snatch him up immediately.

Damn. Selective reading.

Neeeeext.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Terry Bradshaw. Louisiana Tech and rawer than Newton. 4.

Jeff Hostetler. Veer QB at WVU. 1.

Doug Williams. Multiple I for a SWAC team. 1.

Kurt Warner. Northern Iowa. FCS. Nuff said. 1.

Bart Starr. 17th round draft pck from run, run, run Bear. 2.

And Steve Mcnair came within a one yard shoelace tackle if you want to be all technical/artificial and shit, fine, throw him out. i won't. i don't do the dumbass "he never won a SB so he's not an elete QB" thing. Butt I did here to show you you're all wet.

So taking out what Mitch already corrected about Hostetler and Warner - who wasn't even drafted - that's two guys drafted when the modern defense was but a gleam in little Bill Cowher's eye and, uh, Steve McNair. Well you certainly showed us there.

My counter: Trent Dilbert, Tom Brady, Brad Johnson, Peyton Manning, Ben Rottenburger, Eli Manning, and Drew Brees. IIRC, that's your last ten years of Super Bowl winners. Which of them came in to the NFL as raw as Cam Newton? Which of them had to be taught at the NFL level how to play in the pocket?

Seriously, I don't know how many time you seemingly illiterate morons are gonna try to pile on for the same issue that I led off with: Cam Newton is hopelessly raw an should not play for probably two seasons while he studies, works, and gets his one in a generation god given talents in line with NFL and not spread option fundamentals.

'One in a generation god given talents'. Odd how they always wind up in the same generation: Vince Young, Michael Vick, Mark Sanchez...

The NFL is a totally different beast than college. You can't teach smarts. You just can't.

[JacksonDysonJackson]

JB: We are gonna suck for about 2 years. And I mean suuuuuuuck. eat your Wheaties and keep the fait and spit on the tombstones in th egraveyard, but we gonna suck.

Why? Why is sucking badly for 2 straight years a foregone conclusion?

Hell, with that presumption and Jerry Glanville's N.F.L....Shurmur better have us at least DEEP in the playoffs in year 3 or he'll be gonzo.

Couldn't we have sucked for 2 more years with Mangini?