Jets V. Browns gamethread

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

We don't need a playmaker because of that play. We need a playmaker because of that game. We have to have someone who, when you absolutely need a catch, he can make it. We need one who when you absolutely need a sack, he can get it. We don't have one. We have to get really lucky to get a big play on either side of the ball. Our one big play today was due to a blown assignment by the Jets. We need to be able to hit the big play in order to be a great team, and right now we can't.

That's pretty much it.

[yogi]

We don't need a playmaker because of that play. We need a playmaker because of that game. We have to have someone who, when you absolutely need a catch, he can make it. We need one who when you absolutely need a sack, he can get it. We don't have one. We have to get really lucky to get a big play on either side of the ball. Our one big play today was due to a blown assignment by the Jets. We need to be able to hit the big play in order to be a great team, and right now we can't.

Agree, sort of. We have some playmakers, but we dont have a legit Homerun hitter.

And thats what we have to get with our 1st pick in next years draft.

We dont need a QB.

[statmasta]

And that's why we won't win until we get some playmakers.

We had a playmaker, but he refused to come back into the game. Apparently he cares more about money and his new contract than he does winning.

oh no you didn't

Winners fight through injuries. Mark Sanchez did it.

Josh Cribbs bitched out.

[BruceK]

It all comes down to the fact that there's still a big talent gap. We can't afford to make mistakes - and we made a whole bunch. Some of the other teams can afford it.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Winners fight through injuries. Mark Sanchez did it.

Josh Cribbs bitched out.

Winners fight through with only one foot?

[statmasta]

Winners fight through injuries. Mark Sanchez did it.

Josh Cribbs bitched out.

Winners fight through with only one foot?

I'd rather have Josh Cribbs on one foot out there than Chansi Stuckey.

[Triple-S]

Sanchez didn't impress me.

sorry.

looked like Quinn 2.0 plus pro bowl recievers out there and he couldn't win the game how many times?

McCoy looked like he had ice water in his veins during that drive in the 4th, and with absolutely no one to throw to and going against one of the leagues best defense?

give me McCoy any day of the week.

Also, Eric Wright is a bum, and theres no chance in hell that he's on the roster next year. dude gave up when it matters the most.

I'm actually not pissed at Stuckey for the fumble, despite all this, I think he's a keeper and could come in handy at WR for a couple of years. Not a starter, but a good guy for depth.

hated the fucking defense we ran today for the first 3 quarters. WTF? were we using playbooks left over from the 2008 season?

all in all, you're going to have games like these when you're a team trying to get better. The Browns will lick their wounds and get better from this.

[yogi]

Stuckey's turnover did kill us. W would have had 1st down at the 36. 3 Hillis runs net 8 yards (at least) and then a 45 yard FG attempt by Dawson with the wind.

shoot.

But, alas, not to be.

I understand you are upset, I am too, but lashing out and blaming Cribbs, Stuckey, Wright is not a fair take IMO.

Better time are in the near future for all of us Browns fans!

[Erie Warrior]

Playing for the tie cost them the game. 5-step drop in their own endzone? Run the ball. The clock was against them, but if they get some breathing room, maybe a screen pass hits, or a TE on the seam.

Sanchez was great today. Colt was pretty darn good as well. Very clear what Cribbs brings to this offense, as it was vanilla city after he went out. Great game until that last series. Really, the last few series had some awful play calls.

No bullshit about moral victories. Make a play. Finish.

[BruceK]

Well, you can't blame Wright for quitting on a play, and then turn around and blame Stuckey for not quitting.

[Cease]

Haden played his instincts and secured the pick in OT. I wish he would have batted that thing to the ground and given us a chance at a punt return/touchback. Slight mental error, IMO.

Freaking razor-thin margin for error for this team.

[leadpipe]

And that's why we won't win until we get some playmakers.

We had a playmaker, but he refused to come back into the game. Apparently he cares more about money and his new contract than he does winning.

oh no you didn't

Winners fight through injuries. Mark Sanchez did it.

Josh Cribbs bitched out.

I was pretty sure this was about the worst game thread ever till statmasta came up with this one.

Then I knew for sure.

Jesus. H. Christ.

[BruceK]

Haden played his instincts and secured the pick in OT. I wish he would have batted that thing to the ground and given us a chance at a punt return/touchback. Slight mental error, IMO.

Freaking razor-thin margin for error for this team.

I don't think it's an error on third down. What if the Jets decide to go for it on fourth down? We've been known to give up big plays in those situations.

[Cease]

Haden played his instincts and secured the pick in OT. I wish he would have batted that thing to the ground and given us a chance at a punt return/touchback. Slight mental error, IMO.

Freaking razor-thin margin for error for this team.

I don't think it's an error on third down. What if the Jets decide to go for it on fourth down? We've been known to give up big plays in those situations.

I don't think the Jets go for it 4th & 14 from their own 46 in OT. Sanchize had nothing to lose throwing a jump ball. Outside of a Jets catch or an interference call, a Browns pick and no return is their best possible outcome.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

I don't think it's an error on third down. What if the Jets decide to go for it on fourth down? We've been known to give up big plays in those situations.

Yeah, I'm positive they would've gone for it on fourth down after Folk's last shank. Simms wouldn't have believed it, but he's not a crazy Ryan kid.

[yogi]

?

I can review the DVR (but I'm not that brave at the moment) but if Haden doesnt int that pass its about 4tha nd 10 from the Browns 45. No FG attempt, and I would wish Rex would go for it in that situation.

They would have punted and we well may have ended up at the 5 anyways.

[OldDawg]

Looking at the team stats, we got whooped statistically.
Total yds: Jets 456-303
Pass yds: Jets 284-196
Rush yds:Jets 172-107
First downs: Jets 28-19
Third Down Efficiency: Jets 52% (11 of 21) to 33% (4 of 12)
TIME OF POSSESSION: Jets 47:08 - 27:36

So how do you get statistically whipped and still win (New Orleans) or be in (Jets) games?

One word: Coaching.

[yogi]

OldDawg:

TIME OF POSSESSION: Jets 47:08 - 27:36

So how do you get statistically whipped and still win (New Orleans) or be in (Jets) games?

yogi:

It helps when a 10 minute, 70 yard drive is capped by a missed 24 yard FG.

[OldDawg]

OldDawg:

TIME OF POSSESSION: Jets 47:08 - 27:36

So how do you get statistically whipped and still win (New Orleans) or be in (Jets) games?

yogi:

It helps when a 10 minute, 70 yard drive is capped by a missed 24 yard FG.

And (New Orleans) 2 pick-6's.

Hey, these guys and this staff are bustin' their proverbial testicles fighting regardless of statistics. Dallas this year, on the other hand, has been folding like a cheap tent when they begin to have some adversity. You are right, we were certainly aided by a missed field goal, but the fact that they had to settle for that field goal attempt tells you something about your Browns and was deflating in itself for the Jets.

And the Jets were "helped" by a fumble when the game was virtually in our hands.

For the first time in a long time (since Kosar and the temporary run a couple years back), the glass is half full for me, and not half empty.

[BruceK]

By the way, the injury to Cribbs - four dislocated toes (all except the big one) on his right foot

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/11/cleveland_browns_receiver_josh_3.html

[Erie Warrior]

That's a crazy injury. How exactly does that even happen?

[FUDU]

I'll tell you one thing, that game didn't feel like we were rushing for more YPC as the stats suggest, not at all.

[FUDU]

Looking at the team stats, we got whooped statistically.
Total yds: Jets 456-303
Pass yds: Jets 284-196
Rush yds:Jets 172-107
First downs: Jets 28-19
Third Down Efficiency: Jets 52% (11 of 21) to 33% (4 of 12)
TIME OF POSSESSION: Jets 47:08 - 27:36

So how do you get statistically whipped and still win (New Orleans) or be in (Jets) games?

One word: Coaching.

TOs contribute to that effect as well as extending drives one 1 or 2 yard pick ups on 3rds.

[Noodle]

You want to blame it all on Wright? go ahead.

But I saw Barton coming across whiffing on a tackle and Ward get faked outta his jock on that play.

But go ahead, I've seen it for years, Browns fans NEED to have a Goat.

Eric, how the hell do you play the game and scan the message boards at the same time?

[mattvan1]

Tough as hell spot to be in after the Haden pick - 1:35 left and backed up on your own 3. Loved the play call on 1st - and if the Browns hit that seam route who knows what happens. Could just feel after the incompletion the Browns were in big trouble without a first down. All in all, we just ran out of smoke and mirrors. 4 out of the next 5 on the road and with next week against a so so Jags team it will be very interesting to see if they can keep the fire.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Sanchez didn't impress me.

sorry.

looked like Quinn 2.0 plus pro bowl recievers out there and he couldn't win the game how many times?

McCoy looked like he had ice water in his veins during that drive in the 4th, and with absolutely no one to throw to and going against one of the leagues best defense?

give me McCoy any day of the week.

Also, Eric Wright is a bum, and theres no chance in hell that he's on the roster next year. dude gave up when it matters the most.

I'm actually not pissed at Stuckey for the fumble, despite all this, I think he's a keeper and could come in handy at WR for a couple of years. Not a starter, but a good guy for depth.

hated the fucking defense we ran today for the first 3 quarters. WTF? were we using playbooks left over from the 2008 season?

all in all, you're going to have games like these when you're a team trying to get better. The Browns will lick their wounds and get better from this.

In a horrible game thread, this is by far the worst post.

Just to hit on your most egregious stupidity, wtf game were you watching that left you so unimpressed by Sanchez, enough that you made it your 1st point in summarizing this game? Kid looked like Roethlisberger 2.0 out there, and you werent impressed. Jesus F. Christ

[JacksonDysonJackson]

Loved the play call on 1st - and if the Browns hit that seam route who knows what happens.

The smart move is to play for the tie...run 3 times and punt. Hell, can't recall the actualy time remaining, but we may have been able to run it out.

But, IMO, after the last few weeks, Mangini didn't want to face his team saying he was playing for the tie (ie: playing not to lose). And I can't fault him for that.

[mattvan1]

Loved the play call on 1st - and if the Browns hit that seam route who knows what happens.

The smart move is to play for the tie...run 3 times and punt. Hell, can't recall the actualy time remaining, but we may have been able to run it out.

But, IMO, after the last few weeks, Mangini didn't want to face his team saying he was playing for the tie (ie: playing not to lose). And I can't fault him for that.

The Browns needed a first down to either keep their chances alive or to at least run clock and get some field position before a punt. They were not getting a first running 3 times. I do know how much time was left - 1:35. The Jets had 2 time outs. We could not have run the clock out.

[JacksonDysonJackson]

Are you sure they had 2 TOs? I thought they only had 1.

[papacass]

Sanchez didn't impress me.

sorry.

looked like Quinn 2.0 plus pro bowl recievers out there and he couldn't win the game how many times?

In a horrible game thread, this is by far the worst post.

Just to hit on your most egregious stupidity, wtf game were you watching that left you so unimpressed by Sanchez, enough that you made it your 1st point in summarizing this game? Kid looked like Roethlisberger 2.0 out there, and you werent impressed. Jesus F. Christ

Sanchez is far better than Quinn, but you have to admit the Browns have some pretty atrocious team speed on defense. When Shaun Rogers is the only guy consistently wreaking havoc in the backfield, you have poor team speed.

That lack of speed allowed Sanchez to scamper out of trouble all afternoon and make plays downfield, even on a bad wheel. Once you break the play and have a QB like Sanchez surrounded, you have to get him on the turf. Like Roethlisberger or any upper-echelon QB. You just can't let him wriggle off the hook.

The only thing that cures that is getting some better athletes in the front seven.

[peeker643]

I'm still just enjoying the fact we're talking about specific plays or individuals instead of general suck.

I mean, that's what all football fans should do on Mondays.

Could've been a very interesting stretch run given the Rats and Steelers wet the bed.

But I've still not felt better about this team since it came back for whatever that's worth.

60yd drive to tie it inside 2minutes from a rookie QB? A 3rd and 10 throw on that drive followed by an 18 yarder to Moore?

Ultimately it was crushing. It usually is. But damn iif it's not better and there isn't a lot to like.

YMMV

[Larvell Blanks]

Ultimately it was crushing. It usually is. But damn iif it's not better and there isn't a lot to like.

YMMV

It's crushing now not because of the expectation of the other shoe about to drop but of the expectation of actually winning that game. These past 10 years this was a game that happened once, maybe twice a season. This year it's a different vibe that this team is right there ready to move up the ladder. This wasn't a game that we expected to lose but everyone in CBS expected a win. It's been a long time since Browns fans have been given that option.

[bac5665]

After that game, I know we need a WR and DE about as badly as any team needs anything. And we DON'T need a QB. We have to sign the FA in one of those two and draft the other. If we do that, we'll be able to make a playoff run next year (though this will probably be the toughest division in football next year, if it's not this year.)

I'm devastated we lost. But this last week of playoff talk was crazy anyway (though it's still sorta-kinda possible,) and if we finish the season .500 or better that will be a huge victory given expectations going into the season.

I'm ready for the rest of this season to be exciting, and us to claw our way back into contention the last two weeks, though I expect us to finish 2 games out or so. But then bring on next year.

[mattvan1]

Are you sure they had 2 TOs? I thought they only had 1.

Cleveland Browns at 01:35
1-10-CLE 3 (1:35) 12-C.McCoy pass incomplete deep middle to 82-B.Watson.

2-10-CLE 3 (1:30) 40-P.Hillis right tackle to CLV 5 for 2 yards (97-C.Pace).

Timeout #1 by CLV at 00:41.
3-8-CLE 5 (:41) (Shotgun) 12-C.McCoy sacked at CLV 2 for -3 yards (99-J.Taylor, 92-S.Ellis).
Timeout #2 by NYJ at 00:35.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010111401/2010/REG10/jets@browns#tab:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

So let's say we curl up in the fetal position on first down and run the ball. Jets take TO #2. We do the same on second down and Jets take TO #3. Then we again run on 3rd down and, assuming we don't make the 1st we let the play clock run it's full 40 seconds. We are then punting from inside the 10 with about 40 seconds left. Pretty much exactly what happened.

They only difference was that in the above scenario, the Jets would have no timeouts left. And everyone would be calling Mangini a giant pussy and his players would be looking at him in a slightly different light for being completely chickenshit at the end of the game.

[JCoz]

So, being that I can only imagine how bad this game thread was, as that is the nature of spewing thoughts onto paper without thinking, in an emotional state, I'm not going to read it past this page.

But has anyone heard about Brown? Because they way Haden played, I'd say if brown is ok there's no reason to put Wright on the field again as a starter.

Thought the kid looked really good overall. Nice to see him get some extended action yesterday against some decent comp.

Amazing that Fujita, Cribbs, and Brown got taken out early, and we still did what we did. I mean, that is no joke man, those are some of our few leaders/skilled players right there.

If you told me that you were going to take those players away early and leave me with Wright and Haden to cover Holmes and a motivated Edwards, and remove our edge in returns and offense in cribbs, I dont think I would have given us much of a chance.

Would you?

[JacksonDysonJackson]

We do the same on second down and Jets take TO #3.

You only have 2 TOs in OT. So, they could have run the clock out.

Again, I understand and frankly don't mind the decision. But, the smart move was to run 3 straight downs and take the tie.

[mattvan1]

We do the same on second down and Jets take TO #3.

You only have 2 TOs in OT. So, they could have run the clock out.

Again, I understand and frankly don't mind the decision. But, the smart move was to run 3 straight downs and take the tie.

Holy shit good point. Yes, I am a moron. I still like the fact they decided to man up, but you are 100% right they could have run the clock down to under 10 seconds and then punted. My bad.

[trsteve1]

Looking at the team stats, we got whooped statistically.
Total yds: Jets 456-303
Pass yds: Jets 284-196
Rush yds:Jets 172-107
First downs: Jets 28-19
Third Down Efficiency: Jets 52% (11 of 21) to 33% (4 of 12)
TIME OF POSSESSION: Jets 47:08 - 27:36

So how do you get statistically whipped and still win (New Orleans) or be in (Jets) games?

One word: Coaching.

While I agree coaching has been better.. let's not underplay the fact that if Folk makes that 24 yard chip shot, we aren't even in this game (or if he makes the one in OT we would be bitching about OT rules and not the effort given/not given by various players).. we were gifted a chance at this game, and didn't succeed.. hopefully this changes as we transition from a bad team (last year) to a tough (luck) team (this year) and on to a winning team.

[yogi]

While I agree coaching has been better.. let's not underplay the fact that if Folk makes that 24 yard chip shot, we aren't even in this game (or if he makes the one in OT we would be bitching about OT rules and not the effort given/not given by various players).. we were gifted a chance at this game, and didn't succeed.. hopefully this changes as we transition from a bad team (last year) to a tough (luck) team (this year) and on to a winning team.

True, but if Elam holds onto that easy INT then the Jets dont get those 3 points..

You really cant pick and choose like that.

Bottom line is Jets are a top NFL team and for the 4th week in a row, we played a top NFL team on even terms.

I think we have reached a new plateau, now we need to patch up a few areas of weakness and get some more team speed. (and a HR hitter WR)

[Triple-S]

One thing I do know, is I want to keep this as the indentity of this football team.

The whole "Blue Collar, Stop the Run/Run the Ball" aspect, I like and I think that's what wins ball games in a place like Cleveland and in the AFC North.

Now, is that not to say that I would ALWAYS keep the "Run the ball first" as the mentality week to week? No, I think there are some times and some teams that you do indeed need to have a form of a passing game. Those short pass plays that New England ran against Pittsburgh proved that, but it shouldn't be what we base our football team around.

You need to be flexible on offense much like the flexibility we saw on defense these past couple of weeks.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Sanchez is far better than Quinn, but you have to admit the Browns have some pretty atrocious team speed on defense. When Shaun Rogers is the only guy consistently wreaking havoc in the backfield, you have poor team speed.

That lack of speed allowed Sanchez to scamper out of trouble all afternoon and make plays downfield, even on a bad wheel. Once you break the play and have a QB like Sanchez surrounded, you have to get him on the turf. Like Roethlisberger or any upper-echelon QB. You just can't let him wriggle off the hook.

The only thing that cures that is getting some better athletes in the front seven.

Exactly. Rottenburger looked pretty invulnerable up until the Patriots punched him in the mouth last night. It gave me very pleasant dreams knowing that was the sort of D that Mangini and Heckert want to put out on the field.

[Erie Warrior]

So let's say we curl up in the fetal position on first down and run the ball.

I still think running the ball on first down was the move. Get 3 yards. They let a ton of time tick off the clock anyway. 2nd down from the 6 is better than 2nd down from the 3. I nearly shit a brick when I saw Colt take a 5 step drop into his own endzone on first down. A holding call results in a safety and the game is over. The Jets were giving them the middle of the field, so call 2 plays in the huddle. Try the seam route on second down. A completion most likely results in a first down, then they can spike the ball to stop the clock, or run a quick out to get 3 more. Or the incompletion stops the clock and they have 3 and 7 from the six.

More room to work gives them more plays to call. I would liked to have seen a screen pass, but that's tough to call from your own 3. I thought they were playing for the tie after the first down incompletion. And it bit them in the ass. They let nearly 50 seconds burn off the clock before they took the time out.

[peeker643]

Not reading what has been described asa toxic 8-page gamethread, but was there any discussion in the forums about going for two?

I was wondering if given the injuries to Fujita, Cribbs and Brown whether Mangini considered it.

I think he gets away with it either way. If he makes it he's a riverboat gambler and a hero for a week.

If he misses it they cite the injuries and the fact the defense spent about 7 hours on the field w/o two key starters in the second half.

Just wondering if it was discussed.

EDIT: Ok I read it. Other than confirming Statmasta is a tool of epic proportions I saw no discusiion on two. I'll put it in a thread of its own.

[pup]

So let's say we curl up in the fetal position on first down and run the ball.

I still think running the ball on first down was the move. Get 3 yards. They let a ton of time tick off the clock anyway. 2nd down from the 6 is better than 2nd down from the 3. I nearly shit a brick when I saw Colt take a 5 step drop into his own endzone on first down. A holding call results in a safety and the game is over. The Jets were giving them the middle of the field, so call 2 plays in the huddle. Try the seam route on second down. A completion most likely results in a first down, then they can spike the ball to stop the clock, or run a quick out to get 3 more. Or the incompletion stops the clock and they have 3 and 7 from the six.

More room to work gives them more plays to call. I would liked to have seen a screen pass, but that's tough to call from your own 3. I thought they were playing for the tie after the first down incompletion. And it bit them in the ass. They let nearly 50 seconds burn off the clock before they took the time out.

Could not disagree more. They called the right play. It was open. One of the few throws Colt didn't execute to perfection. Next time, he might.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I don't feel that pass was that bad but, I'll defer to a replay...if he had a WR who could have run to the ball instead of needing every single pass perfectly thrown like this crew does it mite have been a TD

That pass was smoked!

[JCoz]

I don't feel that pass was that bad but, I'll defer to a replay...if he had a WR who could have run to the ball instead of needing every single pass perfectly thrown like this crew does it mite have been a TD

That pass was smoked!

Just a bit high, IMO, missed by about 18 inches down and 18 inches closer to watson.

At least as far as I remember.

[Orenthal]

^Yeah it was 2 standard deviations from catchable. ...and Watson can catch, and Hillis, uh and Stuckey when he doesn't give it back.

Yeah I gave up on the test btw...