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Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

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Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:56 pm

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/11/cleveland_browns_quarterback_c_3.html

Have to chalk this up to Manginis typical refusal to name a solid starting QB, no?

Certainly I'd have to think the minimum wage earned was a another start this week vs the Jets.

IMO, despite the "official word" from mangini, Colt has made this discussion EASIER, not harder.

CLEVELAND -- Browns coach Eric Mangini stopped short of naming Colt McCoy his starter for the time being, but acknowledged that he's "making the discussion harder.''

Mangini said he'll see where Seneca Wallace is this week with his high ankle sprain and then go from there regarding the Jets games on Sunday.

But why even have a discussion when McCoy is coming off back-to-back victories over the defending Super Bowl champion Saints and the Patriots, who came in at 6-1?

"I like discussions,'' said Mangini with a smile. He said he likes to solicit input from everyone before making a decision. "We'll talk about it and see where we are.''

Mangini said Wallace will probably return to practice on Wednesday and that Jake Delhomme might see action on Thursday or Friday if his high ankle sprain will allow it.

But Mangini acknowledged that he was really happy with McCoy's performance during Sunday's 34-14 victory over the Patriots, including his ability to throw on the run, stay away from interceptions and make good decisions. He also scored on a 16-yard run.

Mangini said McCoy's arm strength has been good, the players believe in him and that his football I.Q. is "right up there.''
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby Ziner » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:02 pm

Nothing more than Mangini-speak. Whatever, if he thinks it gives them an advantage then have at it Eric. It is stupid and transparent, but everyone knows who the starter is going to be. If Jake or Seneca are the starters on Sunday, it is possible that Mangini will be lynched right there on the sideline by the fans.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby bac5665 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:19 pm

This is the truly scary part of Mangini and the only thing he's done that worries me to death. After last year when he let DA take any snaps at any point, I just don't trust him to make a QB choice.

The entire world knows that McCoy is starting against the Jets. So why do I have this terror that Wallace or Delhomme will be under center next week?
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:23 pm

bac5665 wrote:This is the truly scary part of Mangini and the only thing he's done that worries me to death. After last year when he let DA take any snaps at any point, I just don't trust him to make a QB choice.

The entire world knows that McCoy is starting against the Jets. So why do I have this terror that Wallace or Delhomme will be under center next week?


Because this is Cleveland.

I have the exact same fear, despite all evidence shown that this is his typical move, and it makes absolutely no sense in the world that anyone but McCoy takes that first snap next week.

I don't know how to explain it beyond deep-rooted cleveland fan paranoia.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:11 pm

In the (paraphrased) words of Andy Reid: (discussing Vick vs. Kolb)

Leaving a dynamic and recently successful quarterback on the bench and starting a guy who hasn't "lost" the job will just set the named, "Starter" up for failure: the first mistake and the fans will be chanting for the other guy.

Translation: IF Reid starts Kolb, and he makes a mistake, he immediately begins looking over his shoulder to the backup and the fans start to freak out.

Real life application: If Wallace starts (0% chance that Delhomme is even a subterfuge level option here) the first missed pass or stalled drive would send the fans into an inescapable fervor. I'm pretty sure someone has mentioned to Mangenius what happened when DA was knocked out of a game by injury and booed off the field.

There is absolutely no farkin' way that Browns mgmt, as ridiculous as they've been to this point, can convince themselves that Colt doesn't deserve another start.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby jb » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:23 pm

U kidding? It's his wet dream to have 3 possible starters.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:27 pm

jb wrote:U kidding? It's his wet dream to have 3 possible starters.



LOL. Truth
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby smalls1129 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:31 pm

His tone on Triv left the impression that he and the team knows who will be starting. And frankly, right or wrong, that is all the EM cares about; that the team knows.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby pup » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:12 am

smalls1129 wrote:His tone on Triv left the impression that he and the team knows who will be starting. And frankly, right or wrong, that is all the EM cares about; that the team knows.


1. How is it wrong?
2. No chance it means he has a couple of veteran quarterbacks who need to be handled in the highest of professional matters as possible, so once he sits down with them and tells them Colt is starting...then maybe fans can find out? Blasphemous!

It isn't a one person decision. Not sure what the dude can do to get some off his back.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby JCoz » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:31 am

pup wrote:
smalls1129 wrote:His tone on Triv left the impression that he and the team knows who will be starting. And frankly, right or wrong, that is all the EM cares about; that the team knows.


1. How is it wrong?
2. No chance it means he has a couple of veteran quarterbacks who need to be handled in the highest of professional matters as possible, so once he sits down with them and tells them Colt is starting...then maybe fans can find out? Blasphemous!

It isn't a one person decision. Not sure what the dude can do to get some off his back.


I think he was more referring to it doesn't matter if YOU THINK its right or wrong, moreso than some certain indictment of Mangini's methods in this.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby daddywags » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:25 am

pup wrote:
smalls1129 wrote:His tone on Triv left the impression that he and the team knows who will be starting. And frankly, right or wrong, that is all the EM cares about; that the team knows.


1. How is it wrong?
2. No chance it means he has a couple of veteran quarterbacks who need to be handled in the highest of professional matters as possible, so once he sits down with them and tells them Colt is starting...then maybe fans can find out? Blasphemous!

It isn't a one person decision. Not sure what the dude can do to get some off his back.


I think is exactly right. He's got to be careful how he handles this - not for the fans or the media, but for the people involved. From today's ABJ: "At the end of the day, you're just trying to get to the best decision, the right decision, and not a quick decision, and I just feel its worthwhile to be as thorough as possible when you make a decision that affects so many people in so many different ways."

He knows there are veterans who didn't play only because of injury and that he has a clubhouse now that is very, very, positive. So, make the right decision, but make it in the right way, too. Oh, and this: "we'll have that discussion, myself and Brian and we'll talk to Mike about that as well." "Mike" might have to pitch in and massage the egos of his chosen first and second string QBs in order to make this work smoothly.

It's all smart, IMhO. But McCoy will start vs. the Jets.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:40 pm

I don't think it has anything to do with trying to deceive the next opponent or playing head games with the press or some sort of micro-managing by da Walrus.

It has everything to do with competition, picking up the game plan and staying sharp

The job is Colt's to lose after his Montanesque performance vs the Patsies

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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby statmasta » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:57 pm

It's all part of the process.

In Mangini I trust.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:06 am

Man, I watched the shortcut last night of the Browns/Pats, and days later after I've sobered up to the Pats not being nearly as good as their record, The browns and Particularly Colts performance was still extremely impressive.

Even given a second look Colt was really really accurate. I mean just an entirely different level that anything we've seen from the position in forever. Really pumped to see how he does this weekend.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby jb » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:42 am

JCoz wrote:Man, I watched the shortcut last night of the Browns/Pats, and days later after I've sobered up to the Pats not being nearly as good as their record, The browns and Particularly Colts performance was still extremely impressive.

Even given a second look Colt was really really accurate. I mean just an entirely different level that anything we've seen from the position in forever. Really pumped to see how he does this weekend.



Hillarious. Did same with 4 Xmas ales last night. Kid is money.

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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:59 am

jb wrote:
JCoz wrote:Man, I watched the shortcut last night of the Browns/Pats, and days later after I've sobered up to the Pats not being nearly as good as their record, The browns and Particularly Colts performance was still extremely impressive.

Even given a second look Colt was really really accurate. I mean just an entirely different level that anything we've seen from the position in forever. Really pumped to see how he does this weekend.



Hillarious. Did same with 4 Xmas ales last night. Kid is money.

And Peeker is always gonna have Woofley to hang over me.


Not saying this to be negative just for the sake of it, but do you also notice in the 2nd viewing of the last 2 games, that this D is a whole lot of smoke and mirrors?

I mean really it speaks to both the coaching and players executing these assignments as they are supposed to, so like I said, not being negative necessarily.

Just saying, without deception and confusion, not a whole lot left over after that. Which I guess should surprise no one really.

Again I do think that is a compliment to the coaching and game planning as much as anything.

So I guess against a real power running attack, these boys better strap up and bring their lunch pails. Would love to see Rogers continue to improve and be an important piece for them this season while he's still here. He needs to play for his next contract anyways.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:09 am

.......deception and confusion............



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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:23 am

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:
.......deception and confusion............



The name of the game ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Absolutely, that's how the vaunted Pitt D and zone blitz works so well.

But beyond those deceptions they have Harrison, Woodley, Polamalu, Farrior, Hampton.....so even if you knew what they were going to do, you are going to have a hell of a time stopping them.

Kind of like us and the running game now and at the end of last year.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:26 am

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:
.......deception and confusion............



The name of the game ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


My point also, is how effective do you think deception and confusion is against our power rushing attack?

How effective will our deception and confusion be vs other power rushing attacks, starting with this weekend?
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby jb » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:46 am

Coz,

Yes and no.

What I've noticed is the marked improvement of Gocong and Fajita from the first few games. The DB coverage vs NE was also supurb compared to the fisrt several games. lastly, the DL is really coming along. Rubin is getting quality push on a fairly consistent basis and Koppin can play, and Shaeffering is eating gaps.

All in all, what impresses me is that they played so slooooooooooooooooooowwww in the first month. Vs NE and NOLA they looked like they were running the vectors and getting to the spot first consistently.

So while the schemes are getting more sophisticated, I also say players gelling and reacting instead of thinking. IOW, I was actually mpore impressed. May have been the Xmas ales. ;-)

What is interesting to me is that we just out schemed and beat up two very finesse and passing centric ofenses.

Now we get the smash mouth physical offense. I want to see if we can stand up to the hammer and be the anvil.

Given that Sanchez, Scissorhands, and Holmes are incredibly inconsistent in the routine, I'd expect almost none of this 1 - 5 + nicle stuff except in obvious pssing downs.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:02 pm

jb wrote:Coz,

Yes and no.

What I've noticed is the marked improvement of Gocong and Fajita from the first few games. The DB coverage vs NE was also supurb compared to the fisrt several games. lastly, the DL is really coming along. Rubin is getting quality push on a fairly consistent basis and Koppin can play, and Shaeffering is eating gaps.

All in all, what impresses me is that they played so slooooooooooooooooooowwww in the first month. Vs NE and NOLA they looked like they were running the vectors and getting to the spot first consistently.

So while the schemes are getting more sophisticated, I also say players gelling and reacting instead of thinking. IOW, I was actually mpore impressed. May have been the Xmas ales. ;-)

What is interesting to me is that we just out schemed and beat up two very finesse and passing centric ofenses.

Now we get the smash mouth physical offense. I want to see if we can stand up to the hammer and be the anvil.

Given that Sanchez, Scissorhands, and Holmes are incredibly inconsistent in the routine, I'd expect almost none of this 1 - 5 + nicle stuff except in obvious pssing downs.


Yes, I had some trouble kind of putting it to paper. I am impressed with the execution. I am impressed by the game plan.

But I wonder, and am interested to see us play man on man vs the power rushing game, which is just so much different than what we've seen since said improvements and game speed increases.

I love how Rubin has played, not worried there. I want to see Rogers become an additional factor right next to him now against this NY rushing attack.

NY's passing is largely based on PA, is it not? I worry a bit about our CB's falling asleep out there. Especially if we are forced to pack 8 in the box to stop the rush.

Keller is no invisible man in middle, either. I think we are close to last in the league in defending TE's. But credit the LBer coverage in that Pats game, Tommy boy had to make some serious throws to get to "open" TE's because of the way we are defending the passing lanes in zone coverage. I wouldn't trust Mark to make those same reads and throws.

This is a tough tough game. It's winnable IMO, but I see no ways short of a total Mark (or Colt, to be fair) meltdown that this isn't a knock down drag out game that will be decided in the final minutes.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:51 pm

Agree that I'm not sure 'smoke & mirrors' is the way to put it up but the scheme they're running and the comfort guys now have in it make a big difference.

They've gone back to back weeks of really making two of the best QBs of our generation uncomfortable as hell. Whether it's lining up only Rubin and Rogers with their hands down and having 6 other guys jumping in an out of the box or whether it's stopping a 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 2.

Big, strong and smart was what they wanted to get in terms of LBs. Guess you can understand why.

I think they confuse Sanchez this weekend two. But maybe not as much as Colt gets an entirely different dimension to deal with.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby jb » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:07 pm

Coz - You are right that Holmes and Scissor hands are two totally high risk / high reward types. very inconsistent but capable of big plays via the long ball.

But if we get beat by a grown assed man who chooses to go by "Dusty" I quit.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:55 pm

peeker643 wrote:Agree that I'm not sure 'smoke & mirrors' is the way to put it up but the scheme they're running and the comfort guys now have in it make a big difference.

They've gone back to back weeks of really making two of the best QBs of our generation uncomfortable as hell. Whether it's lining up only Rubin and Rogers with their hands down and having 6 other guys jumping in an out of the box or whether it's stopping a 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 2.

Big, strong and smart was what they wanted to get in terms of LBs. Guess you can understand why.

I think they confuse Sanchez this weekend two. But maybe not as much as Colt gets an entirely different dimension to deal with.


Confusing Mark is only going to matter if they actually have to pass. The Jets have the kind of D that they can afford to wait on O. Unless completely shut down their run game or we score some points and apply some offensive pressure, I don't think they will feel much need to air it out.

And the more effective the run game the more dangerous that PA with Holmes and Dumbass becomes.

I'm going to be keying in on the Rubin/Mangold matchup and Rogers vs whoever is lined up across from him.

EDIT: I mean, what I am thinking (and really kind of expecting to see) is that the Jets game plan is to run, run, run, 1st down or punt with a strategically placed PA pass thrown in every 7-10 runs, which just sends Bray and Holmes on streaks and Keller on a mid post....or something relatively similar.

Best way to eliminate the QB confusion with the ameoba D, since he really wont care where all these Lbers drop, he's just concerned with the CB's and S's biting on the PA fake.

Lather, rinse, repeat unless/until the Browns can apply pressure to adjust by getting a 2 score lead.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:21 pm

Ugh, ESPN claiming Delhomme back at practice today too. God help Mangini if he blows this call.
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Re: Mangini still stopping short of giving Starting job to Colt

Unread postby jb » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:58 am

Gradysmanldy wrote:Ugh, ESPN claiming Delhomme back at practice today too. God help Mangini if he blows this call.



Jake, Colt and Wallace are all options?

Mangini must be loving it. Jet's have to account for all three of the QB's now.

Meanwhile, depending on which of the 3 QB's is selected, the Jets are really stressing over whether to play single coverage on our WR's and stack the LOS with the safeties and drop LBers into flats, or play single coverage on our WR's and stack the LOS with the safeties and drop LBers into flats, or play single coverage on our WR's and stack the LOS with the safeties and drop LBers into flats.

What a nightmare. They must be working 'round the clock on the D game plan.
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