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Harrison's Hits

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Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:35 pm

There is an article and a poll up on ESPN and regarding James Harrison's hits on sunday. There is talk by Ray Anderson, VP of NFL football ops, that players might get suspended.

Rodney Harrison says that it's the only way to get players attention because he never cared when he got fined.

Current poll results say that 59% are in favor of Harrison getting suspended.

Personally, I don't think Harrison's hits warrent suspension. They were bad, no doubt, but I don't know how you can go back and start suspending players for hits already made. Maybe going forward, but not backward.

As far as all of the outrage goes and people talking about how they want the NFL to fine Harrison...I never gave too much of a shit if he got fined or not. Made no difference to me. The ONLY thing that pissed me off was the lack of flags on those plays.

If you are going to make those hits illegal, give me my 15 fucking yards. Fining Harrison (or suspending him for a game against someone else) does absolutely nothing for me without the 15 yards on game day.


Link:http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5699517
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Re: Harison's Hits

Unread postby smalls1129 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:39 pm

Motherscratcher wrote:There is an article and a poll up on ESPN and regarding James Harrison's hits on sunday. There is talk by Ray Anderson, VP of NFL football ops, that players might get suspended.

Rodney Harrison says that it's the only way to get players attention because he never cared when he got fined.

Current poll results say that 59% are in favor of Harrison getting suspended.

Personally, I don't think Harrison's hits warrent suspension. They were bad, no doubt, but I don't know how you can go back and start suspending players for hits already made. Maybe going forward, but not backward.

As far as all of the outrage goes and people talking about how they want the NFL to fine Harrison...I never gave too much of a shit if he got fined or not. Made no difference to me. The ONLY thing that pissed me off was the lack of flags on those plays.

If you are going to make those hits illegal, give me my 15 fucking yards. Fining Harrison (or suspending him for a game against someone else) does absolutely nothing for me without the 15 yards on game day.


Link:http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5699517



How do you suspend someone for a hit their going to make in the future, are you suggesting the NFL start a version of Minority Report?
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Re: Harison's Hits

Unread postby JCoz » Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:41 pm

I think both were illegal hits leading with his helmet and being that their were 2 in a short span, I can see a 1 game suspension being warranted.

At the least he should be looking at a huge fine this week.
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Re: Harison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:43 pm

First one was vile. He was looking for a head shot and found one. Second one I had less problem with to be honest. It was violent but was more in the TJ Ward on Shipley, bang-bang hit IMO.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:52 pm

smalls1129 wrote:
Motherscratcher wrote:There is an article and a poll up on ESPN and regarding James Harrison's hits on sunday. There is talk by Ray Anderson, VP of NFL football ops, that players might get suspended.

Rodney Harrison says that it's the only way to get players attention because he never cared when he got fined.

Current poll results say that 59% are in favor of Harrison getting suspended.

Personally, I don't think Harrison's hits warrent suspension. They were bad, no doubt, but I don't know how you can go back and start suspending players for hits already made. Maybe going forward, but not backward.

As far as all of the outrage goes and people talking about how they want the NFL to fine Harrison...I never gave too much of a shit if he got fined or not. Made no difference to me. The ONLY thing that pissed me off was the lack of flags on those plays.

If you are going to make those hits illegal, give me my 15 fucking yards. Fining Harrison (or suspending him for a game against someone else) does absolutely nothing for me without the 15 yards on game day.


Link:http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5699517



How do you suspend someone for a hit their going to make in the future, are you suggesting the NFL start a version of Minority Report?


No dude. You can't say you're going to suspend players for these hits starting now and then suspend Harrison for his hits when that policy wasn't in place. What's to stop them from going back a few weeks and suspending Ward too?

But if they make it a policy, then you are suspending any hits going forward.

Jeez, you're killing me smalls.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:55 pm

JCoz wrote:I think both were illegal hits leading with his helmet and being that their were 2 in a short span, I can see a 1 game suspension being warranted.

At the least he should be looking at a huge fine this week.


Yeah, you may be right. I guess they could suspend him because both hits were in close suscession. I don't think they, should though. I'm sure he'll probably get a fine.

My problem is that neither of those 2 things do anything to help my team. The only thing that helps my team is 15 fucking yards, and we didn't get them. That's the only thing that agrivates me.

That is, unless a suspension would be carried out the next time we play them.
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Re: Harison's Hits

Unread postby bac5665 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:57 pm

Well that's why the refs need punished too, to make sure that in the future, the refs know that they can't let an NFL player assault other NFL players, just cause one is a Steeler and the other is a Brown.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:01 pm

bac5665 wrote:Well that's why the refs need punished too, to make sure that in the future, the refs know that they can't let an NFL player assault other NFL players, just cause one is a Steeler and the other is a Brown.


Yeah, great idea. That's what football needs to be more exciting. Have the ref's throw a flag every damn time someone breaths funny or looks at the opposition cross-eyed because they are afraid af getting punished for not throwing the flag.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:11 pm

There sure was a lot less righteous indignation two weeks ago when it was TJ Ward standing over the body of Jordan Shipley.

Not gonna lie.

And the second Harrison hit in my estimation was very similar.

Very similar. I agree I expected to see a flag after the second hit but I wasn't shocked I didn't. Some guys play with bad intentions and guys get hurt.

Think we need to put on the big boy pants and quit whining. Or at least call it both ways. If that's Matt Roth laying it on Mendenhall, Hines Ward or Big Ben ain't nobody with a problem in these parts.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby Bigfist » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:18 pm

peeker643 wrote:There sure was a lot less righteous indignation two weeks ago when it was TJ Ward standing over the body of Jordan Shipley.

Not gonna lie.

And the second Harrison hit in my estimation was very similar.

Very similar.

Think we need to put on the big boy pants and quit whining. Or at least call it both ways.


I think that is exactly the point. Had Ward not been flagged or fined for his hit on Shipley, I don't think you would see the outrage among Browns fans that you do. But the fact that he was flagged (which essentially gave Cinci a TD instead of a FG) and he was fined (15000...and we remember what the inarticulate Pereira said), how can one think think that Harrison should somehow escape without a flag or fine?
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby yogi » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:21 pm

peeker643 wrote:There sure was a lot less righteous indignation two weeks ago when it was TJ Ward standing over the body of Jordan Shipley.

Not gonna lie.

And the second Harrison hit in my estimation was very similar.

Very similar. I agree I expected to see a flag after the second hit but I wasn't shocked I didn't. Some guys play with bad intentions and guys get hurt.

Think we need to put on the big boy pants and quit whining. Or at least call it both ways.


I agree.

Give the Browns 2 first downs and 30 friggin yards in critical points in the game.

Fine Harrison $30k and we'll call it all square.

But ya can't.

What needs to be done is call out the inconsistencies and the fact this is Bullshit! :dead:
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:23 pm

Bigfist wrote:
peeker643 wrote:There sure was a lot less righteous indignation two weeks ago when it was TJ Ward standing over the body of Jordan Shipley.

Not gonna lie.

And the second Harrison hit in my estimation was very similar.

Very similar.

Think we need to put on the big boy pants and quit whining. Or at least call it both ways.


I think that is exactly the point. Had Ward not been flagged or fined for his hit on Shipley, I don't think you would see the outrage among Browns fans that you do. But the fact that he was flagged (which essentially gave Cinci a TD instead of a FG) and he was fined (15000...and we remember what the inarticulate Pereira said), how can one think think that Harrison should somehow escape without a flag or fine?



Because flags are the result of what can immediately be seen and determined and applied against rules. They're subjective and subject to human error.

TJ Ward wasn't fined on the field either. It came down Tuesday or Wednesday and I'd be shocked of Harrison wasn't handed down the similar lightening of the wallet.

There's no rule against violence. It has to fit the parameters. They missed the Cribbs play. No doubt. But Harrison will get fined for it. And I can't blame them for no flag on the Mo Mass play because at first glance I didn't think Ward was deserving of one either.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby Bigfist » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:27 pm

But again..this what why you see the complaints from Browns fans..because it appears a double standard is at play here. Ward is a rookie on a bad team and gets flagged and fined, Harrison is an all pro on a good team, and he gets no flag (and we really don't know if there will be a fine). Ok..if the league wants to come out and say that, yes..there is a double standard, then so be it. But at least have the courage to say it.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:29 pm

yogi wrote:
peeker643 wrote:There sure was a lot less righteous indignation two weeks ago when it was TJ Ward standing over the body of Jordan Shipley.

Not gonna lie.

And the second Harrison hit in my estimation was very similar.

Very similar. I agree I expected to see a flag after the second hit but I wasn't shocked I didn't. Some guys play with bad intentions and guys get hurt.

Think we need to put on the big boy pants and quit whining. Or at least call it both ways.


I agree.

Give the Browns 2 first downs and 30 friggin yards in critical points in the game.

Fine Harrison $30k and we'll call it all square.

But ya can't.

What needs to be done is call out the inconsistencies and the fact this is Bullshit! :dead:


I am calling out the bullshit. I'm calling it on Browns fans too though for begging for fairness and reciprocity only when it fits their needs.

Harrison will get fined. Has everyone gone batshit crazy believing they assess fines during the effing game?

And anyone wantng a penalty/fine for the Mo Mass hit may as well petition the league for players to wear flags, not refs to throw 'em. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby aoxo1 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:30 pm

Honestly, I had the opposite interpretation Peek. I have been under the impression that there are rules to protect (1) defenseless quarterbacks and (2) defenseless receivers. Mass clearly falls in the 2nd category, as Harrison led with his head and hit helmet to helmet. It doesn't matter if it is bang bang or not, if he gets there the same time as the ball or not, he cannot hit him in the head.

I've never seen it called on a hit against a runner.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby aoxo1 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:32 pm

One more thing: Sunday could be an aberration, but if it becomes a trend, with guys going headhunting because they know the NFL is extremely conscious of concussions now and it will result in the player being held out the rest of the game for precautionary reasons, the NFL does need to start ejecting or suspending players. In the past, a lot of these guys would have come back in. Now it may be becoming an easy way to completely neutralize opposing players.

Sunday could just as easily be a blip as far as the number of these incidents.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby Bigfist » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:33 pm

peeker643 wrote:
yogi wrote:
peeker643 wrote:There sure was a lot less righteous indignation two weeks ago when it was TJ Ward standing over the body of Jordan Shipley.

Not gonna lie.

And the second Harrison hit in my estimation was very similar.

Very similar. I agree I expected to see a flag after the second hit but I wasn't shocked I didn't. Some guys play with bad intentions and guys get hurt.

Think we need to put on the big boy pants and quit whining. Or at least call it both ways.


I agree.

Give the Browns 2 first downs and 30 friggin yards in critical points in the game.

Fine Harrison $30k and we'll call it all square.

But ya can't.

What needs to be done is call out the inconsistencies and the fact this is Bullshit! :dead:


I am calling out the bullshit. I'm calling it on Browns fans too though for begging for fairness and reciprocity only when it fits their needs.

Harrison will get fined. Has everyone gone batshit crazy believing they assess fines during the effing game?

And anyone wantng a penalty/fine for the Mo Mass hit may as well petition the league for players to wear flags, not refs to throw 'em. ;-) ;) :wink:


Well, I wish I was as sure as you that Harrison will be fined, but I am not. But let me ask you....in your view...should Ward have been flagged or fined?
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:33 pm

Bigfist wrote:But again..this what why you see the complaints from Browns fans..because it appears a double standard is at play here. Ward is a rookie on a bad team and gets flagged and fined, Harrison is an all pro on a good team, and he gets no flag (and we really don't know if there will be a fine). Ok..if the league wants to come out and say that, yes..there is a double standard, then so be it. But at least have the courage to say it.



Again, they will not assess fines until Tuesday or Wednesday. Then we'll see.

And again, only the Cribbs hit warrants either IMO. Still not of the opinion Ward should have been kicked in the ass for his hit.

The bigger point is it ain't always some grand Cleveland conspiracy. It's guys missing calls or people interpreting things differently. We have such an inferiority complex here that it must be another shot at this city.

Not believing that.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:34 pm

I agree with Mom above, what good does a fine do for the Browns, us fans or even to the player, fining Harrison 25-35K+ would be like adding $12 to my $100 dinner tab. He should have been flagged (or flogged) and ejected.

IIRC yesterday had an unusual number of these incidents, I think the league is going to take notice b/c of it.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby Loo » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:35 pm

Motherscratcher wrote:There is an article and a poll up on ESPN and regarding James Harrison's hits on sunday. There is talk by Ray Anderson, VP of NFL football ops, that players might get suspended.

Rodney Harrison says that it's the only way to get players attention because he never cared when he got fined.

Current poll results say that 59% are in favor of Harrison getting suspended.

Personally, I don't think Harrison's hits warrent suspension. They were bad, no doubt, but I don't know how you can go back and start suspending players for hits already made. Maybe going forward, but not backward.

As far as all of the outrage goes and people talking about how they want the NFL to fine Harrison...I never gave too much of a shit if he got fined or not. Made no difference to me. The ONLY thing that pissed me off was the lack of flags on those plays.

If you are going to make those hits illegal, give me my 15 fucking yards. Fining Harrison (or suspending him for a game against someone else) does absolutely nothing for me without the 15 yards on game day.


Link:http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5699517


It should have been a personal foul. I've been looking up NFL rules (someone said a player had to be defenseless for it be 15), and it should have been 15 yards.

My anger towards all this is that T.J. Ward was flagged and fined $15,000 for his hit. Harrison BETTER get at least $30,000, or I really don't see how the NFL can justify itself being fair towards all 32 NFL teams. I still can't understand how the Steelers never get flagged and the Ravens are flagged for looking at a guy wrong.

I've spent most of the day laughing at Steeler fans as they try to say Ward is a headhunter but Harrison is just "tough". There's really no difference between Ward and Harrison's second hit.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:38 pm

aoxo1 wrote:Honestly, I had the opposite interpretation Peek. I have been under the impression that there are rules to protect (1) defenseless quarterbacks and (2) defenseless receivers. Mass clearly falls in the 2nd category, as Harrison led with his head and hit helmet to helmet. It doesn't matter if it is bang bang or not, if he gets there the same time as the ball or not, he cannot hit him in the head.

I've never seen it called on a hit against a runner.



I gotta run but:

In real time that's a really hard call to make sometimes. I still don't think Ward hit Shipley helmet-to-helmet per se and in real time the Harrison hit on Mo Mass looked the same to me.


The hit on Cribbs just looked intentional. Call it spearing if you want. I thought it was much more egregious and deserves a fine/suspension.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:08 pm

1. I'm not buying that the only thing Brown's fans are mad about is that Ward was hit with a flag and a fine, but not Harrison (the flag at least). I call shenanigans. I think it's a convenient thing to bitch about, but I think there woudl be just as much bitching if the Ward hit never happened. Nobody can convince me that there wouldn't be a lot of whining regardless.

2. I can't for the life of me figure out why anybody gives a shit if Harrison is fined. Who cares? What does it get us now. Give me my 15 yards and fuck the fine. Harrison getting fined does nothing for me.


Hey, they were big hits. They were probably on helmets and therefore deserving of penalties. But, they weren't called. Say Lah Vee. We're starting to sound like pussies.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby bac5665 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:11 pm

Bigfist is exactly correct; the problem is that there has so far been inconsistent treatment.

I am pissed that 1) no flags were thrown and 2) the VP of the NFL has not yet called Harrison scum.

The first can't be fixed, though the refs can and should be fined/suspended/fired/yelled at/whatever the hell the NFL does when refs blow call, and the VP needs to come out and make it damn clear that he thinks Harrison is just as bad a player as Ward, and he will be treated the same.

When those two things happen, I'll be satisfied.

And if Ward hadn't been flagged or fined, then I'm not writing this today. I don't care which stance the NFL takes. I care that as it stands right now, our boys are getting hit while the shitsburgh players are getting off. That cannot continue. Not in the only major sport that even pretends to be fair to our city.

EDIT: MS, I really believe that I wouldn't be calling for Harrison's head if Ward hadn't been flagged and fined. Before it happened to Ward, it didn't occur to me that a simple big hit that was so little late would be a penalty, let alone fine-worthy. So no, I wouldn't be calling for Harrison to be given a penalty for it. I might be pissed and want Harrison's blood, but I wouldn't be pissed at the NFL. I'm pissed at the NFL. There's a big, big difference.

And yes, I want the yards back too, but because that's not possible, I want the refs punished so that next time (and there will be a next time, this is war now,) we get our yards instead of the refs turning a blind eye.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby yogi » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:19 pm

peeker643 wrote:
yogi wrote:
peeker643 wrote:There sure was a lot less righteous indignation two weeks ago when it was TJ Ward standing over the body of Jordan Shipley.

Not gonna lie.

And the second Harrison hit in my estimation was very similar.

Very similar. I agree I expected to see a flag after the second hit but I wasn't shocked I didn't. Some guys play with bad intentions and guys get hurt.

Think we need to put on the big boy pants and quit whining. Or at least call it both ways.


I agree.

Give the Browns 2 first downs and 30 friggin yards in critical points in the game.

Fine Harrison $30k and we'll call it all square.

But ya can't.

What needs to be done is call out the inconsistencies and the fact this is Bullshit! :dead:


I am calling out the bullshit. I'm calling it on Browns fans too though for begging for fairness and reciprocity only when it fits their needs.

Harrison will get fined. Has everyone gone batshit crazy believing they assess fines during the effing game?

And anyone wantng a penalty/fine for the Mo Mass hit may as well petition the league for players to wear flags, not refs to throw 'em. ;-) ;) :wink:


Peek, we may be on the same page here but saying it differently.

I think Ward's hit was vicious but clean. He led with shoulder. If the league has a rule that protects defenseless reciever, then Im cool with the flag and TJs fine although I dont like it.

2 weeks later Harrison does same thing to Mo and doesnt get flagged. He may well get fined but the Browns got screwed at a critical time of the game by not getting the 15 and a 1st down. To top matters the Browns get a BS penalty for kicking a ball out of bounds that Mack thought may have been a live ball. A heady play that gets met with a 5 yard penalty. Salt meet wound.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:21 pm

bac5665 wrote:Bigfist is exactly correct; the problem is that there has so far been inconsistent treatment.

I am pissed that 1) no flags were thrown and 2) the VP of the NFL has not yet called Harrison scum.

The first can't be fixed, though the refs can and should be fined/suspended/fired/yelled at/whatever the hell the NFL does when refs blow call, and the VP needs to come out and make it damn clear that he thinks Harrison is just as bad a player as Ward, and he will be treated the same.

When those two things happen, I'll be satisfied.

And if Ward hadn't been flagged or fined, then I'm not writing this today. I don't care which stance the NFL takes. I care that as it stands right now, our boys are getting hit while the shitsburgh players are getting off. That cannot continue. Not in the only major sport that even pretends to be fair to our city.


See what I mean about sounding like pussies?

Wahwahwah. Send Harrison to the principle's office, he was mean. Make sure the principle talks about how mean Harrison was to our little boys. Make sure the teacher that let it happen gets fired. We should take away his lunch money so he doesn't bully us again. It's not fair. Wahwahwah.

For fuck sake man, grow a pair would ya? It's football.

Yeah, I thought there should be flags. But there weren't. If they want to start suspending players for these hits, fine. Make that the policy and do it.

But this:
And if Ward hadn't been flagged or fined, then I'm not writing this today.


I'm not buying it. I think most people are bitching about this either way. Ward is just a convenient jumping off point.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:24 pm

yogi wrote:2 weeks later Harrison does same thing to Mo and doesnt get flagged. He may well get fined but the Browns got screwed at a critical time of the game by not getting the 15 and a 1st down. To top matters the Browns get a BS penalty for kicking a ball out of bounds that Mack thought may have been a live ball. A heady play that gets met with a 5 yard penalty. Salt meet wound.


This exactly Yogi. This is all that matters. All this pissing and moaning about Harrisons possibly fine and "a stern lecture from the league" are meaningless.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby daddywags » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:28 pm

I thought the flag on Ward was legit although I don't like the rule because it's too subjective to enforce consistently (as we just found out). A fine does little to stop the behavior if a flag isn't thrown. A 15 yard penalty hurts your team, a fine just hits one person's wallet a bit. I thought the hit on MoMass was a worse non-call than the one on Cribbs. The Cribbs hit was in the middle of a lot of players near the ground and easy to miss in real time (IMO). The MoMass hit was out in the open and impossible to miss in real time. It looked to me like Harrison took both of his forearms and aimed them directly under the receiver's chin. As I understand the rules, that's the very definition of the defenseless receiver penalty. ("[Unnecessary roughness includes] … if the initial force of the contact by a defender’s helmet, forearm, or shoulder is to the head or neck area of a defenseless receiver who is catching or attempting to catch a pass.") As I saw it, not only did Harrison do that (forearms to head/neck area) but that's exactly what he intended to do. How that doesn't draw a flag is beyond me.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby bac5665 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:48 pm

Motherscratcher wrote:
bac5665 wrote:Bigfist is exactly correct; the problem is that there has so far been inconsistent treatment.

I am pissed that 1) no flags were thrown and 2) the VP of the NFL has not yet called Harrison scum.

The first can't be fixed, though the refs can and should be fined/suspended/fired/yelled at/whatever the hell the NFL does when refs blow call, and the VP needs to come out and make it damn clear that he thinks Harrison is just as bad a player as Ward, and he will be treated the same.

When those two things happen, I'll be satisfied.

And if Ward hadn't been flagged or fined, then I'm not writing this today. I don't care which stance the NFL takes. I care that as it stands right now, our boys are getting hit while the shitsburgh players are getting off. That cannot continue. Not in the only major sport that even pretends to be fair to our city.


See what I mean about sounding like pussies?

Wahwahwah. Send Harrison to the principle's office, he was mean. Make sure the principle talks about how mean Harrison was to our little boys. Make sure the teacher that let it happen gets fired. We should take away his lunch money so he doesn't bully us again. It's not fair. Wahwahwah.

For fuck sake man, grow a pair would ya? It's football.

Yeah, I thought there should be flags. But there weren't. If they want to start suspending players for these hits, fine. Make that the policy and do it.

But this:
And if Ward hadn't been flagged or fined, then I'm not writing this today.


I'm not buying it. I think most people are bitching about this either way. Ward is just a convenient jumping off point.


I tell it like it is man. If Ward hadn't been flagged and fined, would I still be pissed at Harrison? Hell yes! I'd want to see him broken and bleeding from taking a hit from Hillis or a bus or something. But I wouldn't be pissed at the NFL. And that is the difference.

Today I'm pissed at the NFL. Get that yet? Fuck Harrison. Sure, I hate him now, but he's not the point. The point is that the NFL is treating one team differently than another. That is bullshit MLB-style dumbfuckery. And I'm pissed about it. The NFL can make it right, and I hope they will. But I guarantee you that if Ward hadn't been flagged, I wouldn't be pissed at the NFL. Harrison? Yeah. The NFL? No.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby Bigfist » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:49 pm

So Peeker..still think that Harrison will get fined? Read this:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10291/1096248-66.stm

Aiello, from the NFL, says that the hit on Cribbs was legal. I have no doubt they will rule that hit on MoMass was legal too. Harrison has as much chance of being fined/suspended as I have getting Angelina Jolie in bed with me tonite.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby Bigfist » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:56 pm

Motherscratcher wrote:
bac5665 wrote:Bigfist is exactly correct; the problem is that there has so far been inconsistent treatment.

I am pissed that 1) no flags were thrown and 2) the VP of the NFL has not yet called Harrison scum.

The first can't be fixed, though the refs can and should be fined/suspended/fired/yelled at/whatever the hell the NFL does when refs blow call, and the VP needs to come out and make it damn clear that he thinks Harrison is just as bad a player as Ward, and he will be treated the same.

When those two things happen, I'll be satisfied.

And if Ward hadn't been flagged or fined, then I'm not writing this today. I don't care which stance the NFL takes. I care that as it stands right now, our boys are getting hit while the shitsburgh players are getting off. That cannot continue. Not in the only major sport that even pretends to be fair to our city.


See what I mean about sounding like pussies?

Wahwahwah. Send Harrison to the principle's office, he was mean. Make sure the principle talks about how mean Harrison was to our little boys. Make sure the teacher that let it happen gets fired. We should take away his lunch money so he doesn't bully us again. It's not fair. Wahwahwah.

For fuck sake man, grow a pair would ya? It's football.

Yeah, I thought there should be flags. But there weren't. If they want to start suspending players for these hits, fine. Make that the policy and do it.

But this:
And if Ward hadn't been flagged or fined, then I'm not writing this today.


I'm not buying it. I think most people are bitching about this either way. Ward is just a convenient jumping off point.


You are just dead wrong. Dead wrong. When I saw both hits, I was certain that both would draw a flag, PRECISELY because of what happened to Ward. When neither one drew a flag, well, it just smells suspicious. And now the hit on Cribbs was legal..according to the NFL. And the MoMass hit..well, let's just say I think the NFL will come up with some Mike Periera explanation why it was ok as well.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby smalls1129 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:05 pm

Motherscratcher wrote:
smalls1129 wrote:
Motherscratcher wrote:There is an article and a poll up on ESPN and regarding James Harrison's hits on sunday. There is talk by Ray Anderson, VP of NFL football ops, that players might get suspended.

Rodney Harrison says that it's the only way to get players attention because he never cared when he got fined.

Current poll results say that 59% are in favor of Harrison getting suspended.

Personally, I don't think Harrison's hits warrent suspension. They were bad, no doubt, but I don't know how you can go back and start suspending players for hits already made. Maybe going forward, but not backward.

As far as all of the outrage goes and people talking about how they want the NFL to fine Harrison...I never gave too much of a shit if he got fined or not. Made no difference to me. The ONLY thing that pissed me off was the lack of flags on those plays.

If you are going to make those hits illegal, give me my 15 fucking yards. Fining Harrison (or suspending him for a game against someone else) does absolutely nothing for me without the 15 yards on game day.


Link:http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5699517



How do you suspend someone for a hit their going to make in the future, are you suggesting the NFL start a version of Minority Report?


No dude. You can't say you're going to suspend players for these hits starting now and then suspend Harrison for his hits when that policy wasn't in place. What's to stop them from going back a few weeks and suspending Ward too?

But if they make it a policy, then you are suspending any hits going forward.

Jeez, you're killing me smalls.



Harrison has been fined multiple times in the past. His suspension would not be a precedent setting moment, Rodney Harrison specifically talked about being suspended after multiple fines and the difference the suspension makes.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:19 pm

^^^^^^^Fair enough smalls. I have no knowledge of any fines that Harrison has recieved prior to this. But I think you get what I was saying, right? That would be like lowering the speed limit from 55 to 45 today and going back to find someone going 55 yesterday. Or some other stupid metaphor.

BTW - I was looking for any reason, any reason at all to type that last line.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:25 pm

bac - I guess I shouldn't try to say I know what goes on inside other peoples heads, becuase I don't. I barely know what's going on inside my own. I just think, in general (not you specifically) there would still be an uproar by Browns fans if the Ward hit/fine never took place. A lot of people would still be whining about it, IMO.


Bigfist - I still, for the life of me, can't figure out why any of us gives a shit if Harrison gets a fine. Who cares? There is no conspiracy.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby aoxo1 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:25 pm

Bigfist, the difference is that defenseless receivers are explicitly protected by the NFL. There has never been anything about a guy running with the ball as either (a) against the rules (I believe) and (b) certainly not as a point of emphasis that the NFL says it is cracking down on.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby Bigfist » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:33 pm

I could care less if Harrison gets a fine or not. But I want the rules enforced fairly and evenly. Equal justice under the law, if you will.

Aoxo1..my response was aimed more at Peeker, who seemed to think the hit on Cribbs was worse than the one on Momass. Peeker called the hit on Cribbs "vile". Obviously, the NFL does not agree. And despite the national outcry, I stand by what I said...I think there will be no fine or suspension at all for Harrison.

Motherscratcher..if you think all teams are treated equally, then I just think you are plainly naive. You think that Marcus Bernard's hit on Matt Ryan was worthy of a fine?
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:39 pm

Bigfist wrote:I could care less if Harrison gets a fine or not. But I want the rules enforced fairly and evenly. Equal justice under the law, if you will.

Aoxo1..my response was aimed more at Peeker, who seemed to think the hit on Cribbs was worse than the one on Momass. Peeker called the hit on Cribbs "vile". Obviously, the NFL does not agree. And despite the national outcry, I stand by what I said...I think there will be no fine or suspension at all for Harrison.

Motherscratcher..if you think all teams are treated equally, then I just think you are plainly naive. You think that Marcus Bernard's hit on Matt Ryan was worthy of a fine?


I'm not saying that all teams are created equally or that the NFL doesn't have it's favorites. But explain to me how fining Harrison would have any overall ill effect on teh NFL's relationship with the Steelers or their fan base. Because that's what you would be implying by saying that Harrison wasn't fined because he's on the Steelers. If there is some kind of conspiracy it would have to be through some kind of favoratism on the field perpetrated by the refs. I think that's just too unlikely. No conspiracy.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby bac5665 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:52 pm

Motherscratcher wrote:bac - I guess I shouldn't try to say I know what goes on inside other peoples heads, becuase I don't. I barely know what's going on inside my own. I just think, in general (not you specifically) there would still be an uproar by Browns fans if the Ward hit/fine never took place. A lot of people would still be whining about it, IMO.


Fair enough. I suppose it depends on what an uproar is to you. I'd probably still whine about it, but I'd be whining about our players sucking more than about Harrison being a dirty player. And like you, I sure don't want to pretend to know what others would think or do. Maybe there would be uproar. But as for me, my beef is most assuredly about the NFL's lack or fairness here.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:52 pm

aoxo1 wrote:Bigfist, the difference is that defenseless receivers are explicitly protected by the NFL. There has never been anything about a guy running with the ball as either (a) against the rules (I believe) and (b) certainly not as a point of emphasis that the NFL says it is cracking down on.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:01 pm

FUDU wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:Bigfist, the difference is that defenseless receivers are explicitly protected by the NFL. There has never been anything about a guy running with the ball as either (a) against the rules (I believe) and (b) certainly not as a point of emphasis that the NFL says it is cracking down on.
What does a receiver become once he catches a pass?


I don't think anyone on the Browns knows. You'd have to ask some other team. We should try that next sunday for sure, though.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:59 pm

Bigfist wrote:I could care less if Harrison gets a fine or not. But I want the rules enforced fairly and evenly. Equal justice under the law, if you will.

Aoxo1..my response was aimed more at Peeker, who seemed to think the hit on Cribbs was worse than the one on Momass. Peeker called the hit on Cribbs "vile". Obviously, the NFL does not agree. And despite the national outcry, I stand by what I said...I think there will be no fine or suspension at all for Harrison.

Motherscratcher..if you think all teams are treated equally, then I just think you are plainly naive. You think that Marcus Bernard's hit on Matt Ryan was worthy of a fine?


I do think it was vile BF. That was an unnecessary shot to the head with the head. If you're not punishing that hit then you're gonna cost someone their life one Sunday.


And again, if he's gonna get fined it will be Tuesday or Wednesday.

Lastly, if he's not fined, then I'm with Mother: C'est la vie. Frontier justice and karma can be more costly than an NFL fine. I'm not marching on the NFL offices. It's not some half-assed double standard. You want that? Go back to the rewarding of the franchise. That was a real hosing.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:19 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Bigfist wrote:I could care less if Harrison gets a fine or not. But I want the rules enforced fairly and evenly. Equal justice under the law, if you will.

Aoxo1..my response was aimed more at Peeker, who seemed to think the hit on Cribbs was worse than the one on Momass. Peeker called the hit on Cribbs "vile". Obviously, the NFL does not agree. And despite the national outcry, I stand by what I said...I think there will be no fine or suspension at all for Harrison.

Motherscratcher..if you think all teams are treated equally, then I just think you are plainly naive. You think that Marcus Bernard's hit on Matt Ryan was worthy of a fine?


I do think it was vile BF. That was an unnecessary shot to the head with the head. If you're not punishing that hit then you're gonna cost someone their life one Sunday.


And again, if he's gonna get fined it will be Tuesday or Wednesday.

Lastly, if he's not fined, then I'm with Mother: C'est la vie. Frontier justice and karma can be more costly than an NFL fine. I'm not marching on the NFL offices. It's not some half-assed double standard. You want that? Go back to the rewarding of the franchise. That was a real hosing.


SD:

Harrison earholed Cribbs tracked him down and speared him in the helmet while a teammate had him in the grasp perfectly legal as helmet to helmet hits aren't called vs running backs , but a dirty intentional cheap shot nonetheless .

The Masso hit was 1970 Jack tatum style , and has been outlawed for the last two decades vs receivers and especially now .

A double foreamr to the head as well as a helmet blow , finable by either contact as a blow to the head and extra as a hekmet to helmet blatant enough to be thrown out of the game and worthu os a 15 yard penalty minimum .

MS is missing the point , ain't about being called pussies its about same rules for the prisoners as it is for the guards.

Haven't seen more unbalanced bullshit called against the Browns since Paul crew and the longest yard.

Fuck the NFL , and the owners for shitting on our team our fans and our colors like we're second class fucks.


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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:33 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:SD:

Harrison earholed Cribbs tracked him down and speared him in the helmet while a teammate had him in the grasp perfectly legal as helmet to helmet hits aren't called vs running backs , but a dirty intentional cheap shot nonetheless .

The Masso hit was 1970 Jack tatum style , and has been outlawed for the last two decades vs receivers and especially now .

A double foreamr to the head as well as a helmet blow , finable by either contact as a blow to the head and extra as a hekmet to helmet blatant enough to be thrown out of the game and worthu os a 15 yard penalty minimum .

MS is missing the point , ain't about being called pussies its about same rules for the prisoners as it is for the guards.

Haven't seen more unbalanced bullshit called against the Browns since Paul crew and the longest yard.

Fuck the NFL , and the owners for shitting on our team our fans and our colors like we're second class fucks.


SoulDawg


No, I get all that. I do. I think both hits were fouls for the reasons you said. I think a fine would be appropriate based on other similar hits being fined.

My only question is, again, why do we care at this point whether there is a fine? How exactly does that benefit the Browns? 15 yards would have benefited the Browns during the game. A fine does not. Even a suspension does not.

They were missed calls, nothing more. Not because we are second class citizens, but because sometimes refs miss calls. I don't believe that the refs are being told who to favor in games. Shit, just saying that implies that the Steelers actually needed the ref's help, which they did not.

But all this talk about wanting the NFL to acknowledge that Harrison is a dirty player is ridiculous because it would make absolutely no difference to the Browns as a team AND it makes us sound like a bunch of crying pussies.

It makes us look like the little brother who just got his ass kicked and now he's sticking his tongue out behind dad's back while he yells at the older brother. Dad can yell all he wants, but Little Bro still got his ass kicked.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby T_N_T » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:59 pm

Motherscratcher wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:SD:

Harrison earholed Cribbs tracked him down and speared him in the helmet while a teammate had him in the grasp perfectly legal as helmet to helmet hits aren't called vs running backs , but a dirty intentional cheap shot nonetheless .

The Masso hit was 1970 Jack tatum style , and has been outlawed for the last two decades vs receivers and especially now .

A double foreamr to the head as well as a helmet blow , finable by either contact as a blow to the head and extra as a hekmet to helmet blatant enough to be thrown out of the game and worthu os a 15 yard penalty minimum .

MS is missing the point , ain't about being called pussies its about same rules for the prisoners as it is for the guards.

Haven't seen more unbalanced bullshit called against the Browns since Paul crew and the longest yard.

Fuck the NFL , and the owners for shitting on our team our fans and our colors like we're second class fucks.


SoulDawg


No, I get all that. I do. I think both hits were fouls for the reasons you said. I think a fine would be appropriate based on other similar hits being fined.

My only question is, again, why do we care at this point whether there is a fine? How exactly does that benefit the Browns? 15 yards would have benefited the Browns during the game. A fine does not. Even a suspension does not.

They were missed calls, nothing more. Not because we are second class citizens, but because sometimes refs miss calls. I don't believe that the refs are being told who to favor in games. Shit, just saying that implies that the Steelers actually needed the ref's help, which they did not.

But all this talk about wanting the NFL to acknowledge that Harrison is a dirty player is ridiculous because it would make absolutely no difference to the Browns as a team AND it makes us sound like a bunch of crying pussies.

It makes us look like the little brother who just got his ass kicked and now he's sticking his tongue out behind dad's back while he yells at the older brother. Dad can yell all he wants, but Little Bro still got his ass kicked.


Point is here either the league enforces the helmet-to-helmet/defenseless player rules every time or they just take them altogether, I am a fan of multiple team (due to my moving away from Ohio) and I woulden't way to see anyone get hit that way no matter what team they are on, and yes human error can happen, but then, shouden't that human error be punished(as in fines for the refs so that doesn't happen again), its just downright dangerous for anyone to get hit in the head like that(its very similar to a head on car accident) and does have the potential to leave someone seriously injured or worse paralyzed. It doesn't matter what team this happened to>>see DeSean Jackson Dunta Robinson, I believe the hits dangerous, but if is called inconsistently, then get rid of the rule.

Interesting article here
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/?p=35078
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:37 pm

T_N_T wrote:Point is here either the league enforces the helmet-to-helmet/defenseless player rules every time or they just take them altogether, I am a fan of multiple team (due to my moving away from Ohio) and I woulden't way to see anyone get hit that way no matter what team they are on, and yes human error can happen, but then, shouden't that human error be punished(as in fines for the refs so that doesn't happen again), its just downright dangerous for anyone to get hit in the head like that(its very similar to a head on car accident) and does have the potential to leave someone seriously injured or worse paralyzed. It doesn't matter what team this happened to>>see DeSean Jackson Dunta Robinson, I believe the hits dangerous, but if is called inconsistently, then get rid of the rule.

Interesting article here
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/?p=35078


But I think they DO try to enforce it every time. Just like they try to enforce pass interference every time. Just like they try to enforce offsides every time. Just like they try to enforce holding every time. (OK, maybe not holding.)

But nobody is talking about how those errors should be punished if a ref misses the call. I get why people are saying that, but I think it would make it so much worse. Flags would absolutely be flying EVERYWHERE if the refs thought they would be punished for every missed call like that. That "solution" would be way worse than some missed helmet to helmet calls.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:47 pm

Real-time. I defy anyone to show me conclusively this was a blow to the head and that Massaquoi didn't duck into this hit, much like Shipley did. I see no helmet to helmet.

Look, maybe I'm missing it. The Cribbs hit makes me mad. But it's the game.

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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:51 pm

I'll set aside the discussion regarding Harrison's penalty vs. Ward's Vs. Robinson's.

This issue is much more interesting when you look at the big picture. The NFL owns the sports universe. They are clearly America's game. MLB and NBA can't compete. It seems nothing can stop the NFL's dominance...except maybe this:

Someone is going to die from one of these hits. On the field. Sooner rather than later.

The NFL has a real problem on its hands. They dont want to kill the golden goose but
they clearly have to do SOMETHING about the violent hitting. Penalties, fines and even suspensions won't stop it.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby municipalmutt » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:57 pm

aoxo1 wrote:Honestly, I had the opposite interpretation Peek. I have been under the impression that there are rules to protect (1) defenseless quarterbacks and (2) defenseless receivers. Mass clearly falls in the 2nd category, as Harrison led with his head and hit helmet to helmet. It doesn't matter if it is bang bang or not, if he gets there the same time as the ball or not, he cannot hit him in the head.

I've never seen it called on a hit against a runner.


Speaking of defenseless quarterbacks, what ever happened to the "in-the-grasp" rule?
Seems like that hasn't been enforced at all for the last two seasons. I guess the NFL is only concerned about protecting players if it theoretically benefits the offense, adds excitement, or potentially puts more points on the board.

How many times do we see QBs wrapped up yet still allowed to throw the ball away without the whistle blowing the play dead? The zebras aren't calling intentional grounding on those plays either. I saw it at least once yesterday and many times during the last two years in other games.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby T_N_T » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:06 pm

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:I'll set aside the discussion regarding Harrison's penalty vs. Ward's Vs. Robinson's.

This issue is much more interesting when you look at the big picture. The NFL owns the sports universe. They are clearly America's game. MLB and NBA can't compete. It seems nothing can stop the NFL's dominance...except maybe this:

Someone is going to die from one of these hits. On the field. Sooner rather than later.

The NFL has a real problem on its hands. They dont want to kill the golden goose but
they clearly have to do SOMETHING about the violent hitting. Penalties, fines and even suspensions won't stop it.


And that is what they should be concerned about, period.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:08 pm

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:I'll set aside the discussion regarding Harrison's penalty vs. Ward's Vs. Robinson's.

This issue is much more interesting when you look at the big picture. The NFL owns the sports universe. They are clearly America's game. MLB and NBA can't compete. It seems nothing can stop the NFL's dominance...except maybe this:

Someone is going to die from one of these hits. On the field. Sooner rather than later.

The NFL has a real problem on its hands. They dont want to kill the golden goose but
they clearly have to do SOMETHING about the violent hitting. Penalties, fines and even suspensions won't stop it.



JDJ- Welcome.

Now let me ask (and only with a hint of sarcasm) "How will a death on the field slow down the NFL"?

http://www.rotten.com/

www.facesofdeath.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9uG3kMgTok
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:14 pm

Budweiser sponsors FoD now?
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