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Cleveland Browns & The NFL

Harrison's Hits

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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby aoxo1 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:21 pm

peeker643 wrote:
JDJ- Welcome.

Now let me ask (and only with a hint of sarcasm) "How will a death on the field slow down the NFL"?

How about when it results in a manslaughter charge, dependent on the hit being ruled illegal?
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:31 pm

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:Budweiser sponsors FoD now?



Meh... hockey fight videos are more popular than hockey highlight videos, MMA is growing more popular than baseball on TV and still ain't anyone who can roll past an accident without looking for a glimpse of tragedy much less blood and brain matter.

A death on the NFL field won't kill the sport. Sure, it'll get a few of the Bob Costas types waxing eloquently for a while and lead to some lip service by the people who run the game, but it'd probably increase interest.

Nothing like 12 Budweisers to put that decapitation death on the field out of your head (so to speak).

Seriously, if you don't think the NFL and Budweiser are selling the violence and the brutal nature of the game, not sure we can continue the discussion honestly.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:45 pm

T_N_T wrote:
Motherscratcher wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:SD:

Harrison earholed Cribbs tracked him down and speared him in the helmet while a teammate had him in the grasp perfectly legal as helmet to helmet hits aren't called vs running backs , but a dirty intentional cheap shot nonetheless .

The Masso hit was 1970 Jack tatum style , and has been outlawed for the last two decades vs receivers and especially now .

A double foreamr to the head as well as a helmet blow , finable by either contact as a blow to the head and extra as a hekmet to helmet blatant enough to be thrown out of the game and worthu os a 15 yard penalty minimum .

MS is missing the point , ain't about being called pussies its about same rules for the prisoners as it is for the guards.

Haven't seen more unbalanced bullshit called against the Browns since Paul crew and the longest yard.

Fuck the NFL , and the owners for shitting on our team our fans and our colors like we're second class fucks.


SoulDawg


No, I get all that. I do. I think both hits were fouls for the reasons you said. I think a fine would be appropriate based on other similar hits being fined.

My only question is, again, why do we care at this point whether there is a fine? How exactly does that benefit the Browns? 15 yards would have benefited the Browns during the game. A fine does not. Even a suspension does not.

They were missed calls, nothing more. Not because we are second class citizens, but because sometimes refs miss calls. I don't believe that the refs are being told who to favor in games. Shit, just saying that implies that the Steelers actually needed the ref's help, which they did not.

But all this talk about wanting the NFL to acknowledge that Harrison is a dirty player is ridiculous because it would make absolutely no difference to the Browns as a team AND it makes us sound like a bunch of crying pussies.

It makes us look like the little brother who just got his ass kicked and now he's sticking his tongue out behind dad's back while he yells at the older brother. Dad can yell all he wants, but Little Bro still got his ass kicked.


Point is here either the league enforces the helmet-to-helmet/defenseless player rules every time or they just take them altogether, I am a fan of multiple team (due to my moving away from Ohio) and I woulden't way to see anyone get hit that way no matter what team they are on, and yes human error can happen, but then, shouden't that human error be punished(as in fines for the refs so that doesn't happen again), its just downright dangerous for anyone to get hit in the head like that(its very similar to a head on car accident) and does have the potential to leave someone seriously injured or worse paralyzed. It doesn't matter what team this happened to>>see DeSean Jackson Dunta Robinson, I believe the hits dangerous, but if is called inconsistently, then get rid of the rule.

Interesting article here
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/?p=35078


SD:

The rule is here to stay , ,

The NFL will announce tomorrow new regs calling for suspensions as well as fines for just these type head shots .

In the old days you simply retaliated in same either in that game or the next time you played them .


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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:51 pm

Seriously, if you don't think the NFL and Budweiser are selling the violence and the brutal nature of the game, not sure we can continue the discussion honestly.

No doubt. My response was tongue and cheek.

I just think that it makes for an interesting dynamic. The NFL publically acting appalled...but behind closed doors, they know where their bread is buttered.

I never said it would kill the sport...it may not even hurt it that much. But it will do something. And the NFL will be forced to do something. They are already catching heat on the long term effects of concussions and retired players general health*...a couple on-field deaths will force a tough decison: (a) publically embrace the violence with an "it is what it is mentality" or (b) change the game to support the players safety. Again, fines and suspensions won't change the fact that these are massive humans running at insane speeds intending to inflict pain. Ditka mentioned changing the headgear so that players dont use the helmet as a weapon. Someone else mentioned widening the field. Not sure either is viable.

*by the way, if we think the guys who played in the 60s and 70s are in bad shape, wait until this generation is that old. Holy Pugilistic Dementia Batman!
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:11 am

All of this... the concussion talk... the Harrison hits among 100 other recent ones... the great majority are guys playin' fast - just like 20 years ago, cept waaay faster and waaay bigger men. Guys aren't head hunting more, rules aren't changing much - just enormous, fast guys colliding, playin' the game fast.

Carson Palmer said he believes we're not far away from someone dyin' out there, and I'd tend to agree. And rules aren't going to stop it, and it ain't going to be a result of a cheap shot - it'll be the result of a 260 pound 4.5 runnin' cat with 6% body fat breakin a neck.

And, by the way, its so hypocritical of the league to be emphasizing the concussion situation on the eve of increasing the schedule to 18 games. They care just enough about these guys to the point it starts costing them money.

Again, the game is played FAST. The Mo Mass hit peeker is speaking about is common in the sense that the receivee of the blow often makes a sudden move to which the deliverer, moving at top speed caouldn't adjust to if he wanted. Those hits happened for years, and weren't all that big of a deal - until guys developed into the maiming machines they can be today.

It's football man, and I love it, but make no mistake about it - it's at a f'in barbaric level out there.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby OldDawg » Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:55 am

I am confused by all this defenseless receiver talk. I find it hard to make a case to defend any of our receivers. Even if there was no defense, our receivers couldn't get open.

Like most of you, I went nuts when Harrison didn't get flagged. And yes, that rage was fueled by what happened to Ward earlier in the year. And then I read his post-game comments. I do hope they fine and suspend him. Don't think they will, but hope they do. And of course the fact that he is a Steeler, makes it even worse for me.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:20 am

The hit on Cribbs was awful. The hit on MoMass was great and i'd have no problem if a Brown did that to Hines Ward. To be perfectly honest, I don't give a shit about "defenseless recievers" getting crushed, that's part of the game. Just like on hockey when some flashy Russian has his head down and he gets lit up by some large Canadian defensemen on open ice, I love that.

JMHO.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby T_N_T » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:40 am

Helmet-To-hits are dangerous no matter which way you slice it, just look at this clip.

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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:11 am

Last I checked, and at least the way I'm built, my shoulders are in close proxomity to my head. In fact, pretty much wherever my shoulders go, well, my head has to be in that general area.

If the NFL would consistently fine/suspend guys for violating the rules alreaduy in place then this issue would be resolved.

And it has to come on Mondays and Tuesdays because there's no way an official, in real time, can tell on a hit like Harrison's or Ward's as to whether it was head to head or even if it was initiated by the defender. Mo Mass contributed to his headache when he ducked his head.

Or eliminate hitting and require tackling only. That will be fun.

I've not heard a single offensive player interviewed in favor of what the NFL is about to do. Steve Young, trent Dilfer, Tom Waddle, etc. None of them want the game changed to remove the hitting and violence.

Punish the offenders who violate the existing rules.

Mike & Mike will have Ray Anderson from the NFL on in 20 minutes (930am) to discuss the changes and debate the need for them.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:21 am

BTW, if Dunta Robinson gets suspended for his hit on DeSean Jackson, they may as well fold up the fucking league and let these guys who are offended by such things start scrapbooking.

No head to head and clearly separating the man from the ball while leading with his shoulder. And yeah, when you do that at that velocity the head hits the receiver too ultimately. Much like a windshield getting cracked in a car accident. It wasn't the windshield that hit that bridge abutment first but that doesn't stop it from getting effed up.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:32 am

BTW, if Dunta Robinson gets suspended for his hit on DeSean Jackson, they may as well fold up the fucking league and let these guys who are offended by such things start scrapbooking.

No head to head and clearly separating the man from the ball while leading with his shoulder. And yeah, when you do that at that velocity the head hits the receiver too ultimately. Much like a windshield getting cracked in a car accident. It wasn't the windshield that hit that bridge abutment first but that doesn't stop it from getting effed up.


I'm with ya. Which makes the issue all the more problematic: a player need not violate the rules to seriously injure someone.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby Triple-S » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:38 am

Heres how it should have went down

the flag should have been thrown on the first hit, 15 yards first down. Easy enough, and if you have common sense, you will stop doing it as a player.

2nd time around, if he does, you kick him out of the game, and maybe threaten for the next game and again, the Browns 15 yards.

It had to be helmet to helmet though, and a coach can at the very least appeal the possible suspension/ejection via discussion with the officials.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:50 am

Triple-S wrote:Heres how it should have went down

the flag should have been thrown on the first hit, 15 yards first down. Easy enough, and if you have common sense, you will stop doing it as a player.

2nd time around, if he does, you kick him out of the game, and maybe threaten for the next game and again, the Browns 15 yards.

It had to be helmet to helmet though, and a coach can at the very least appeal the possible suspension/ejection via discussion with the officials.



No.

There was nothing illegal about the helmet to helmet on the Cribbs hit. That's allowed. My issue was it was unnecessary and bordered on spearing, which is illegal. Helmet to helmet is fine when you're talking about a ball carrier as opposed to a defenseless receiver.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby DeanSheen » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:08 am

No.

There was nothing illegal about the helmet to helmet on the Cribbs hit. That's allowed. My issue was it was unnecessary and bordered on spearing, which is illegal. Helmet to helmet is fine when you're talking about a ball carrier as opposed to a defenseless receiver.


I'm so sick of reading this ignorance. Defenseless receiver is not the only way in which the use of a helmet can garner a 15 yard penalty.

SO yeah, there are at least two things illegal about the Cribbs hit in the NFL's own rule book. :bunny:

Both of these apply to the Cribbs hit:

1. A tackler using his helmet to butt, spear, or ram an opponent.
2. Any player who uses the top of his helmet unnecessarily.

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/penaltysummaries
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:33 am

DeanSheen wrote:
No.

There was nothing illegal about the helmet to helmet on the Cribbs hit. That's allowed. My issue was it was unnecessary and bordered on spearing, which is illegal. Helmet to helmet is fine when you're talking about a ball carrier as opposed to a defenseless receiver.


I'm so sick of reading this ignorance. Defenseless receiver is not the only way in which the use of a helmet can garner a 15 yard penalty.

SO yeah, there are at least two things illegal about the Cribbs hit in the NFL's own rule book. :bunny:

Both of these apply to the Cribbs hit:

1. A tackler using his helmet to butt, spear, or ram an opponent.
2. Any player who uses the top of his helmet unnecessarily.

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/penaltysummaries



If you read the whole thread (or even my whole last post that you quoted ;-) ;) :wink: ) you'll see I agree it was spearing and it was unnecessary. Both of which should be opunishable and are more vile than the hit on MoMass IMO. In fact, it was said multiple times. But there is nothing inherently illegal about helmet to helmet contact with a running back or ball carrier as there is with a defenseless receiver.

Welcome, by the way.

Now read the whole effing thread. :thumb up:
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Put this in your pipe and smoke it mother

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:45 am

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2010/10 ... -football/


James Harrison’s Cowardly Helmet Shots Do Not Represent Real Football
Ignorance, NFL, Poor OfficiatingJason LiskOctober 18th. 2010, 10:30am


""""The NFL is going to have another Darryl Stingley incident if it does not swiftly disincentive the helmet shots we saw on Sunday. DeSean Jackson may be out for a while after suffering a serious concussion. Brandon Meriweather hit Todd Heap after an incomplete pass by launching himself helmet first at Heap, in what is – at best – a completely reckless act. The story of the day, though, is James Harrison. He knocked both Joshua Cribbs and Mohamed Massaquoiout of the game with head injuries, twice leading with his helmet on vicious hits.

Let me clear one thing out of the way, both of those hits should be considered illegal pursuant to Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8(f), and should have been penalized on the field. """""

Two dirty outright cheapshots by the same bum in the same game with nairy a dirty look from the duplicitious zebras let alone a flag .

100% unadulterated bullshit.

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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby DeanSheen » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:45 am

"Now read the whole effing thread. :thumb up:"

Ok man. Thanks for the welcome. I guess I just got a little excited posting over here because it's a little more loose. Longtime lurker and glad to be here.
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Re: Put this in your pipe and smoke it mother

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:55 am

I guess this didn't quite fit in the "Harrison's Hits" thread...
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Re: Put this in your pipe and smoke it mother

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:59 am

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:I guess this didn't quite fit in the "Harrison's Hits" thread...



Oh yeah it did. That's why I moved it there. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby jb » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:10 am

Complex, complex subject with cascading levels.

On one hand, sorry, but this is whay I watch football. An NFL major hit = a from the free throw line take off posterizing dunk = a tape mesure home run. It is the ultimate play in the sport. That chemical caveman just killed Cribbs -- he'll never nbe the same after getting paid and that hit -- and yet it was all I could do to start yelling , "JONATHAN! JONATHAN!" If it isn't the helmet crown hit ( the old blocking / spearing concept) , it should be lagal. Period. The game moves too fast and you are taught to lead the tackle with your face/forehead. You can't always help where that ends up.

These guys are getting penalized for being awesome. Punk.

But it you ARE going to legislate toughness out of the game, the refs and league are doing a piss-poor job of being consistent. Harrison should have been flagged for the Cribbs hit and then tossed for the MoMass hit. They called TJ for far, far less when he led with a shoulder. Seperate rules, but I've gotten used to the "Rooney Rules" over the years ever since the phantom knee down of 1978.

If this is what the NFL wants, so be it. But just put a sensor in players' helmets and when they hit with them and it goes off it is an automatic 15 yarder. Then add on the NBA flagrant foul concept for game & season totals. And also make a helmet-to-helmet hit a replayable offense that allows a coach to throw the flag on for review so these guys don't get away with any bang-bang BS on Sunday only to pay some scrilla on Tuesday. That doesn't do shit.

Lastly, this stuff increases in division games IMO. When levying suspensions, roll it to the next game vs the same division opponant; this year of next year. That will get this stuff stopped. Either play some real footbll, or get it out of the game entirely. No more subjective half assed approaches the NFL is famous for doing.

Having said all that, pushing and shoving by the Browns after the play accomplishes nothing. But the fact Harrison made it through the entire game tells you evertything you need to know about both teams right now. Shame on the Browns for not putting him down. He needed high-low after that or crack backed of a screen. The Browns played intimidated for a while after that IMO.

Lastly, the cynical side of me sees all of this as nothing more than a league bargaining chip to support the 18 game RS so they can hold this up as exhibit A as to how they protect players from injury this of season.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby jb » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:18 am

aoxo1 wrote:Bigfist, the difference is that defenseless receivers are explicitly protected by the NFL. There has never been anything about a guy running with the ball as either (a) against the rules (I believe) and (b) certainly not as a point of emphasis that the NFL says it is cracking down on.



Cribbs was defenseless as he'd been hit and was going down.

And that's my point about the rules being inconsistent.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby jb » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:19 am

peeker643 wrote:Nothing like 12 Budweisers to put that decapitation death on the field out of your head (so to speak).

Seriously, if you don't think the NFL and Budweiser are selling the violence and the brutal nature of the game, not sure we can continue the discussion honestly.



If you want a brutal beer, taste Bud Ice.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby jb » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:21 am

DeanSheen wrote:"Now read the whole effing thread. :thumb up:"

Ok man. Thanks for the welcome. I guess I just got a little excited posting over here because it's a little more loose. Longtime lurker and glad to be here.



Post more. Someone actually citing a legit link instead of pontificating.

refreshing.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:11 pm

DeanSheen wrote:"Now read the whole effing thread. :thumb up:"

Ok man. Thanks for the welcome. I guess I just got a little excited posting over here because it's a little more loose. Longtime lurker and glad to be here.


Hi, that was DeanSheen, rush chairman. He was damn glad to meet you.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:44 pm

NFL VP of operations Ray Anderson regarding the Dunta Robinson/Desean Jackson hit:


“Technically, by the rules, even if you initiate contact below the neck, but you get up into a players head and neck area for a defenseless receiver, technically under that rule, that was a violation,” Anderson said. “That’s why it was called (a penalty). And it will be subject to discipline.”

Yes, it was a bang-bang play," Anderson said. “You can make the argument that it was different from the others (hits on Sunday). But at the end of the day, it was still illegal under the current rules. And we have to be very vigorous about enforcing and protecting our players against hits like this.”


::doh:: :thud: :lame: :thud: :bs:
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:46 pm

peeker643 wrote:Last I checked, and at least the way I'm built, my shoulders are in close proxomity to my head. In fact, pretty much wherever my shoulders go, well, my head has to be in that general area.



How did you manage to get your head and shoulders up your ass?. You must be quite limber.

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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:53 pm

My wild -ass guess is that people here will be more complimentary of Pereira for this take than they were about his Ward take.

Clearly because he got this one right and was way out of bounds on the Ward issue. ;-) ;) :wink:

Pereira said the league is not likely to take lightly Harrison this week saying he attacks ballcarriers with the intent of hurting them and putting them out of the game, drawing a distinction between that and injuring someone. Pereira noted that Harrison's hit of Cleveland's Josh Cribbs did not seem illegal to him because Cribbs was not a defenseless ballcarrier, but Harrison later hit receiver Mohamed Massaquoi with his helmet and should have been penalized by the officials.

Both Harrison and Merriweather are expected to receive suspensions and/or significantly increased fines from the league office in reaction to their egregious hits Sunday, possibly as early as Tuesday afternoon.

"I don't think you're going to see typical fines handed out any more to repeat offenders. And [Harrison] might have thrown his own rear end in hot water when he said he's out to hurt people. There was no attempt to wrap up and tackle, it was just lower his head and hit them in the ear hole. I don't think the league is going to say that's OK and move on.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:55 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:
peeker643 wrote:Last I checked, and at least the way I'm built, my shoulders are in close proxomity to my head. In fact, pretty much wherever my shoulders go, well, my head has to be in that general area.



How did you manage to get your head and shoulders up your ass?. You must be quite limber.


Maybe I'm just a giant a-hole.

Duh.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:42 pm

Bigfist wrote:So Peeker..still think that Harrison will get fined? Read this:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10291/1096248-66.stm

Aiello, from the NFL, says that the hit on Cribbs was legal. I have no doubt they will rule that hit on MoMass was legal too. Harrison has as much chance of being fined/suspended as I have getting Angelina Jolie in bed with me tonite.



Tuesday afternoon fine update for Harrison: $75k per OBR Radio.

If Angelina is still there tell her I said, "Hey". ;-) ;) :wink:

ETA: http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/39747202/ ... ayer_news/
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:16 pm

If they really want to cut down on these hits, they'd fine them $750,000 per incident. That's what NFL players care about most, money.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby OldDawg » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:24 pm

I still say you gotta fine the refs who stared at these vicious hits and didn't even consider throwing a flag.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby OldDawg » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:26 pm

Regarding Harrison's attitude about all this. This is a little like the American League pitcher throwing at batters. They don't have to step in the batter's box.

I wish Harrison had to line up at WR a few times and watch people beat the crap out of him when he stretches for a ball.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby Bigfist » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:28 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Bigfist wrote:So Peeker..still think that Harrison will get fined? Read this:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10291/1096248-66.stm

Aiello, from the NFL, says that the hit on Cribbs was legal. I have no doubt they will rule that hit on MoMass was legal too. Harrison has as much chance of being fined/suspended as I have getting Angelina Jolie in bed with me tonite.



Tuesday afternoon fine update for Harrison: $75k per OBR Radio.

If Angelina is still there tell her I said, "Hey". ;-) ;) :wink:

ETA: http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/39747202/ ... ayer_news/


Harrison getting that fine is almost (note, almost) as good as having Angelina in bed!
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby jfiling » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:33 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:If they really want to cut down on these hits, they'd fine them $750,000 per incident. That's what NFL players care about most, money.

Eventually they will have to care about cutting down these hits. Despite dumbass fake tough guys like James Harrison, the majority of players are going to be pissed knowing that they can be crippled if these hits aren't eliminated as best as they can be.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby bac5665 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:33 pm

OldDawg wrote:I still say you gotta fine the refs who stared at these vicious hits and didn't even consider throwing a flag.



This. The problem is not that Harrison is a tool (well, that is a problem, but it's not the main problem.) The problem is that the NFL trained refs ignored all the BS this offseason about helmet-to-helmet hits being outlawed.

Oh, and why are only Browns fans and Greg Easterbrook aware of the spearing rule? NFL officials keep saying that the Cribbs hit was fine. If that's the case, then what the hell would spearing be?
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:40 pm

JB has this one nailed.

Love the hard hits in football, it is part of why we watch, it is arguably the ultimate display of power for the sport. But the NFL is really dropping the ball on how they are going about all this. I get wanting to prevent serious injury, and I get wanting to retain the integrity of the hard hitting angle of the sport, but in order to get it right you have to be 100% one way or the other. There simply cannot be incidents like Sunday in which there were two violent hits with no flags.

Again Cribbs was defenseless, there is no argument, no to mention Harrison was only using his head, it wasn't like he had his arms extended for an attempt at a wrap up. But to play devil's ad a bit, I've never liked the idea of a fine for a play in which there was no flag for an infraction....pretty much BS and after the fact. $75K is a hefty fine as far as fines go, but still irrelevant as a deterrent.




I've always kind of like the idea of a player missing as much time as the guy he puts out of the game. If Cribbs can't play for 3 weeks, neither should Harrison, THAT will deter these types of negligent hits.

Figures, we finally get a guy who can put fear into an offensive player and the league wants to shut it all down.....
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby aoxo1 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:48 pm

Except, DU, if there should have been a flag and it wasn't thrown. Just because the refs miss something doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby aoxo1 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:49 pm

OldDawg wrote:Regarding Harrison's attitude about all this. This is a little like the American League pitcher throwing at batters. They don't have to step in the batter's box.

Have always agreed with this, especially when the defensive guys start complaining that the offensive players are wusses.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:07 pm

aoxo1 wrote:Except, DU, if there should have been a flag and it wasn't thrown. Just because the refs miss something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Very true, but IMO it exposes the flaws in their whole approach of either education of the officials or how they review their officials afterwards. IMO the officials should be penalized as much as Harrison, they blew the call.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:07 pm

aoxo1 wrote:
OldDawg wrote:Regarding Harrison's attitude about all this. This is a little like the American League pitcher throwing at batters. They don't have to step in the batter's box.

Have always agreed with this, especially when the defensive guys start complaining that the offensive players are wusses.


Except of course when that noted bad-ass cheap shot artist Brady Quinn goes after poor defenseless Terrell Suggs. Then there's no end to the pissing and moaning.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:10 pm

OldDawg wrote:I still say you gotta fine the refs who stared at these vicious hits and didn't even consider throwing a flag.


Bad idea. I think it would be detrimental to make these guys afraid NOT to throw a flag.

Maybe you could grade the officials each week and if they are missing a lot of these things then you do something. But if they are missing a lot of these things why are they refs to begin with?
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby aoxo1 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:18 pm

FUDU wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:Except, DU, if there should have been a flag and it wasn't thrown. Just because the refs miss something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Very true, but IMO it exposes the flaws in their whole approach of either education of the officials or how they review their officials afterwards. IMO the officials should be penalized as much as Harrison, they blew the call.

Officials ARE evaluated, and I assume compensation is tied to it, based on their performance. It certainly determines which guys get to officiate playoff games and the SB.

It would be ridiculous to fine officials for specific missed calls; it is inevitable that they will miss some things. And really? As much as a player making 10x as much?
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:31 pm

aoxo1 wrote:
FUDU wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:Except, DU, if there should have been a flag and it wasn't thrown. Just because the refs miss something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Very true, but IMO it exposes the flaws in their whole approach of either education of the officials or how they review their officials afterwards. IMO the officials should be penalized as much as Harrison, they blew the call.

Officials ARE evaluated, and I assume compensation is tied to it, based on their performance. It certainly determines which guys get to officiate playoff games and the SB.

It would be ridiculous to fine officials for specific missed calls; it is inevitable that they will miss some things. And really? As much as a player making 10x as much?

Fine the officials on a relative scale then. My point there was that the officials did miss the call, but why, it doesn't sound like it was simply just a missed call. To me it sounds as if there is a lot of confusion about these particular rules, which in and of itself is a huge problem IMO.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby daddywags » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:59 pm

It certainly determines which guys get to officiate playoff games and the SB.


Right. The ones who call personal fouls on the Steelers are for sure not invited to officiate playoff games or the SB.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby OldDawg » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:25 pm

daddywags wrote:
It certainly determines which guys get to officiate playoff games and the SB.


Right. The ones who call personal fouls on the Steelers are for sure not invited to officiate playoff games or the SB.

Just ask Holmgren... Seattle ... at Detroit. Worst officiated SB ever.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:28 pm

FUDU wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:
FUDU wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:Except, DU, if there should have been a flag and it wasn't thrown. Just because the refs miss something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Very true, but IMO it exposes the flaws in their whole approach of either education of the officials or how they review their officials afterwards. IMO the officials should be penalized as much as Harrison, they blew the call.

Officials ARE evaluated, and I assume compensation is tied to it, based on their performance. It certainly determines which guys get to officiate playoff games and the SB.

It would be ridiculous to fine officials for specific missed calls; it is inevitable that they will miss some things. And really? As much as a player making 10x as much?

Fine the officials on a relative scale then. My point there was that the officials did miss the call, but why, it doesn't sound like it was simply just a missed call. To me it sounds as if there is a lot of confusion about these particular rules, which in and of itself is a huge problem IMO.



The game is fast and getting faster every year Donny. These guys officiating it aren't getting faster or more pixels to see it with.


So now we're gonna see plenty of flags based on how violent the aftermath of a hit looked or how loud it sounded. And that blows more than what we have now in my opinion cuz it ain't gonna take back the headaches and light sensitivity these guys get on legit, legal hits.

Not every effing headaches is a guy like Harrison ear-holing someone. But it'll get called the same.

Enforce the present rules, suspend the shit out of serial a-holes and leave the game alone. Or just quit playing it altogether.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:56 pm

peeker643 wrote:
FUDU wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:
FUDU wrote:
aoxo1 wrote:Except, DU, if there should have been a flag and it wasn't thrown. Just because the refs miss something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Very true, but IMO it exposes the flaws in their whole approach of either education of the officials or how they review their officials afterwards. IMO the officials should be penalized as much as Harrison, they blew the call.

Officials ARE evaluated, and I assume compensation is tied to it, based on their performance. It certainly determines which guys get to officiate playoff games and the SB.

It would be ridiculous to fine officials for specific missed calls; it is inevitable that they will miss some things. And really? As much as a player making 10x as much?

Fine the officials on a relative scale then. My point there was that the officials did miss the call, but why, it doesn't sound like it was simply just a missed call. To me it sounds as if there is a lot of confusion about these particular rules, which in and of itself is a huge problem IMO.



The game is fast and getting faster every year Donny. These guys officiating it aren't getting faster or more pixels to see it with.


So now we're gonna see plenty of flags based on how violent the aftermath of a hit looked or how loud it sounded. And that blows more than what we have now in my opinion cuz it ain't gonna take back the headaches and light sensitivity these guys get on legit, legal hits.

Not every effing headaches is a guy like Harrison ear-holing someone. But it'll get called the same.

Enforce the present rules, suspend the shit out of serial a-holes and leave the game alone. Or just quit playing it altogether.


This. A thousand times this. Beware what you wish for guys.
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby yogi » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:25 pm

I generally like Whitlock's columns.

This one makes sense to me also. I like the part about re-examining pass interference, holding etc, to give the Defense a little bite back if you take away a lot of the intimidation factors.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-headshot-punishment-leaves-defenders-defenseless-jason-whitlock-102010
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:50 pm

Harrison is now contemplating retirement:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5706748

"We wouldn't joke about this," Parise said. "This is a very serious issue. James is very concerned about how to play football. If James is going to be fined $75,000 for making a legal tackle, then how do you go play football? It's quite frustrating to James, to Coach [Mike] Tomlin, to me, to everybody."


No guys, this is serious. Super super serious.

Poor James. Why do all of the bad things have to happen to him?
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Re: Harrison's Hits

Unread postby scott » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:56 pm

If James Harrison can't headhunt, James Harrison doesn't want to play football.
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