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So, in regards to McCoy

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Re: So, in regards to McCoy

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:19 pm

aoxo1 wrote:Well, at least we've calmed ourselves down to comparisons to a SB winner instead of a 4 time SB winner, and it took less than a week from his first start.

Image

FWIW Brees' 2nd and 3rd years (only 1 game his rookie year) were quite awful. You really wouldn't be looking to bring in another QB if Colt is putting up a sub 70 rating?


JFC, talk about the point flying over your head...

I don't give a rats ass about stats...stats are for losers who pay the bookie every week

Here's the bottom line. The Chargers kept the wrong guy and wasted a #1 based on current results and it wasn't Breese or his numbers that were the problem. It was how he was handled and Rivers' lack of accomplishments so far point directly at Chargers ownership and Norv Fucking Turner

BTW, your saying that Breese went to 'Nawlins and won more with less

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Re: So, in regards to McCoy

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:30 pm

aoxo1 wrote:Yep, unless the team is certain (or damn near) that Colt is a stud and not just an average starter with a chance to be a little better, they HAVE to take a guy they think is IF that guy is available. The position is just too damn important and hard to fill to not fire multiple bullets.


I couldn't disagree more. I think that Seneca Wallace showed enough through 3 games this year with the arm to make me think that if Colt is not the answer, he could be a serviceable QB going forward. If Colt has a respectable year, I think you boost the defense, give him another weapon via draft/free agency, and one more year to develop and work with those weapons.

QB is third on my list of needs, IMHO, behind the defensive ends and DB/CB. The reason the Browns are not 5-1 or 4-2 is more of an indictment of a lack of a pass rush and Eric Wright than the failure of Colt or Seneca. (they lose against Pittsburgh either way, and probably Atlanta)

Also, if Colt is not the answer, there's still the possibility of a veteran free agent QB signing, no? Michael Vick, Alex Smith, Matt Hasselbeck?

Also, our receiving situation is probably the worst in the league. Seneca/Colt + High end WR >> Luck/Mallet and the bag of shit we have.

Bottom line, I trust Holmgren to make the right call here (until he proves he's incapable of it) and want to see another few starts from the Coltster before this line of thought means anything. I remember how Brady Quinn looked like a motherfreakin' superstar against the Broncos and then immediately fizzled out when the league adjusted to him.

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Re: So, in regards to McCoy

Unread postby aoxo1 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:31 pm

No, the point ain't flying over anyone's head, but stats are an easy way to summarize sucking that occured over half a decade ago. Far be it from me to doubt you, as I'm sure you were all over Brees becoming the equal of Peyton back in 2003 when he was turning it over more than scoring. After all, I'm sure he showed so much during those 2 years of absolutely brutal starts that led to them drafting Rivers.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Charger's hedging their bets by drafting Rivers. Jettisoning Brees was a mistake, but that's not parallel to the situation we are discussing; let's not forget that he had suffered a serious shoulder injury that scared off at least the Dolphins, and likely others.

If the problem is Norv Turner (and I would agree with that), would Brees have overcome him and won a SB if in SD? Because Marty was the coach when the choice was made; Norv inherited Rivers.

But don't worry, I've got you down for keeping Colt, apparently regardless of what happens the rest of the way. Because that's exactly what our three posts were about: what to do if he doesn't show those flashes of greatness.
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Re: So, in regards to McCoy

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:25 pm

Ziner wrote:I can't believe I am doing this, but put me in SD's camp. If you get a shot a blue chipper and you have to take them even if Colt finishes the year decently. If Colt doesnt want us to take an available blue chipper he has to show something pretty spectacular, and I am still not sure that is enough. If we take one and Colt blossoms then so be it, it doesnt hurt to have trade assets.

I would agree with this while at the same time arguing that there is only one blue chipper out there (and he very well might not declare).

So, yeah, if Andrew Luck is there, take him. But give me best available WR or Pass Rusher instead of Mallett or Locker.
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Re: So, in regards to McCoy

Unread postby yogi » Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:52 pm

Well, if the draft was this weekend, Im with you to try and secure a QB with the first pick.

But. its not and we have 10 games to evaluate what we have and make some wise decisions for the Browns.

Besides the Bills and Jags, who will be in the market for a QB? The Raiders? 49ers? Cards?

Lots of cards to drop and it'll be fun to talk about and debate from here till April.

But if Colt shows promise to be more than an average QB, I'd be very interested to see what our 1st round draft slot would be worth to another team in terms of compensation. The anti-Sanchez trade, could net us a pass rushing DL or LB. A top quality DB and a #1 WR. That would be a god send for us.

Of course, having MH evaluate Colt instead of Lumpy & Daball alone makes me feel better anyways! :)
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Re: So, in regards to McCoy

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:49 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
Ziner wrote:I can't believe I am doing this, but put me in SD's camp. If you get a shot a blue chipper and you have to take them even if Colt finishes the year decently. If Colt doesnt want us to take an available blue chipper he has to show something pretty spectacular, and I am still not sure that is enough. If we take one and Colt blossoms then so be it, it doesnt hurt to have trade assets.

I would agree with this while at the same time arguing that there is only one blue chipper out there (and he very well might not declare).

So, yeah, if Andrew Luck is there, take him. But give me best available WR or Pass Rusher instead of Mallett or Locker.


Of course, completely agree. I guess I just assume that if Holmgren is taking a QB in the top ten he really likes him and thinks he is a blue chipper.
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Re: So, in regards to McCoy

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:48 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
Ziner wrote:I can't believe I am doing this, but put me in SD's camp. If you get a shot a blue chipper and you have to take them even if Colt finishes the year decently. If Colt doesnt want us to take an available blue chipper he has to show something pretty spectacular, and I am still not sure that is enough. If we take one and Colt blossoms then so be it, it doesnt hurt to have trade assets.

I would agree with this while at the same time arguing that there is only one blue chipper out there (and he very well might not declare).

So, yeah, if Andrew Luck is there, take him. But give me best available WR or Pass Rusher instead of Mallett or Locker.


SD:

While I agree Luck appears to be the Creme De Le Creme , and both Mallet and Locker have major question marks regarding heart in the case of Mallet and Brains in the case of Locker , with both guys giving you pause in their play .

I disagree that Locker is the only Blue chipper, little regarded Moore outta Boise State may end up a better Pro than all of them , you just never know
and you certainly can't discount the smaller programs where the QB is the Matre De head dishwasher and closes the store at night.

Those guys do it without the rest of the team being loaded with blue chip talent ,Rapistburger and Flacco didn't exactly come out of football factories like OKie and USC, so we have to do our due dilligience on everybody ,especially if we beat ourselves outta the Luck sweepstakes or he doesn't declare.

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Re: So, in regards to McCoy

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:00 pm

yogi wrote:Well, if the draft was this weekend, Im with you to try and secure a QB with the first pick.

But. its not and we have 10 games to evaluate what we have and make some wise decisions for the Browns.

Besides the Bills and Jags, who will be in the market for a QB? The Raiders? 49ers? Cards?

Lots of cards to drop and it'll be fun to talk about and debate from here till April.

But if Colt shows promise to be more than an average QB, I'd be very interested to see what our 1st round draft slot would be worth to another team in terms of compensation. The anti-Sanchez trade, could net us a pass rushing DL or LB. A top quality DB and a #1 WR. That would be a god send for us.

Of course, having MH evaluate Colt instead of Lumpy & Daball alone makes me feel better anyways! :)


SD:

Doubt I'd trade that pick Yogi unless I could still net Moore in the bargain minimum .

There just isn't a substitute when you don't have top tier talent in the key position in all of football.


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Re: So, in regards to McCoy

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:45 pm

It's not only Kellen Moore's size - he needs to get rid of that looong release, or he's goona have big problems at the next level.

I'm with Hiko here, right now, there's one guy worth that first round pick. When you need as much as they do, you can't very much reach anywhere, and you sure as hell don't reach in round number one.
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Re: So, in regards to McCoy

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:57 pm

But don't worry, I've got you down for keeping Colt, apparently regardless of what happens the rest of the way


Get a life... you're projecting as I never said anything of the sort and if keeping tabs of my takes is all you have to look forward to "the rest of the way" you have my sympathies


You could no more convince me or predict that a guarantee comes with Luck, Mallet or Whomever than you or anyone else here could/would have predicted the results of McCoys game vs the Breeds.

What he did with what he had was epic and it should be noted I'm one of the last people who ever wanted anything to do with him and, in fact, called him a pussy for bailing out of a big game when the national spotlight was on him

The forum would be better served to start talking about WR's and CB's right now than projecting assumed QB draft picks in rounds unknown based on games yet to be played
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Re: So, in regards to McCoy

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:12 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:
Ziner wrote:I can't believe I am doing this, but put me in SD's camp. If you get a shot a blue chipper and you have to take them even if Colt finishes the year decently. If Colt doesnt want us to take an available blue chipper he has to show something pretty spectacular, and I am still not sure that is enough. If we take one and Colt blossoms then so be it, it doesnt hurt to have trade assets.

I would agree with this while at the same time arguing that there is only one blue chipper out there (and he very well might not declare).

So, yeah, if Andrew Luck is there, take him. But give me best available WR or Pass Rusher instead of Mallett or Locker.


SD:

While I agree Luck appears to be the Creme De Le Creme , and both Mallet and Locker have major question marks regarding heart in the case of Mallet and Brains in the case of Locker , with both guys giving you pause in their play .

I disagree that Locker is the only Blue chipper, little regarded Moore outta Boise State may end up a better Pro than all of them , you just never know
and you certainly can't discount the smaller programs where the QB is the Matre De head dishwasher and closes the store at night.

Those guys do it without the rest of the team being loaded with blue chip talent ,Rapistburger and Flacco didn't exactly come out of football factories like OKie and USC, so we have to do our due dilligience on everybody ,especially if we beat ourselves outta the Luck sweepstakes or he doesn't declare.

SoulDawg

That's all well and good, but I don't think you'll need a Top 10 pick to nab Moore. You can probably get him in the 2nd rd (at least). So if the discussion is about the 1st rd Top 10 pick, then no way in hell do you go Moore there.
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Re: So, in regards to McCoy

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:07 am

While I agree Luck appears to be the Creme De Le Creme , and both Mallet and Locker have major question marks regarding heart in the case of Mallet and Brains in the case of Locker , with both guys giving you pause in their play .


Locker is not dumb....he has only been playing the game a few years and is still learning the position....and he was smart enuff to return and not come out as a Jr

IMHO, Mallet is out of the question. In fact, after the way Wilson played in relief vs Auburn, I'm wondering how Mallet is even the starter
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Re: So, in regards to McCoy

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:21 pm

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:
While I agree Luck appears to be the Creme De Le Creme , and both Mallet and Locker have major question marks regarding heart in the case of Mallet and Brains in the case of Locker , with both guys giving you pause in their play .


Locker is not dumb....he has only been playing the game a few years and is still learning the position....and he was smart enuff to return and not come out as a Jr

IMHO, Mallet is out of the question. In fact, after the way Wilson played in relief vs Auburn, I'm wondering how Mallet is even the starter


SD:

Quit making excuses for the inexcusable.

Football is football , the same he's been playing all his life and that junk he's running ain't rocket science where he needs a doctorate to execute it.

Anybody who blows the chance to be the first or second QB taken in a QB poor draft where the oft injuried Bradford netted a $50 million bonus is dumb as paint.

Especially with the NFL labor situation and CBA expiring which means he doesn't read is immature as hell and is just a puppy looking at a mans game.

The mental might of a Derek Anderson doing deep thinking.

and Yes to the poster who said grab Moore later in the draft that would be the plan if you traded out of a top pick if Luck is not there .

Passing on QB entirely in a draft so rich at the position Fughgedaboudit


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Last edited by SoulDawg74 on Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So, in regards to McCoy

Unread postby mattvan1 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:13 pm

SoulDawg, mi hermano

I am shocked and saddened that you have not starting pimping Cam Newton as the Browns next QB. Shocked I say. Shocked ;-) ;) :wink:

Just messin' with ya. Me? I'm all over him if he comes out. 4th round.
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Re: So, in regards to McCoy

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:11 pm

mattvan1 wrote:SoulDawg, mi hermano

I am shocked and saddened that you have not starting pimping Cam Newton as the Browns next QB. Shocked I say. Shocked ;-) ;) :wink:

Just messin' with ya. Me? I'm all over him if he comes out. 4th round.


SD:

Gotcha , you sure gott a lot more ammo for that pick than my pimping of Daryll Clark in the fourth.

Which is about where Tebow should have gone , but he had a PR machine that could have sold glossed turds as nutritional supplements.

Not sure where Cam ends up butt man what a talent.


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