Hillis for President...

[FUDU]

and Wright as ambassador to Afghanistan, send him now. 4 years is about right too considering how long Hillis will last at this pace, but take it while we can. Dude is straight up bad ass throwback.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I just love watching Hillis run. Dude is a human battering ram.

[peeker643]

Meh.. strikes me as a lot like Ron Wolfley.

And credit where it's due: I thought Harrison was magnificent as the up man on kick returns and as one of the backs/safeties in the Victory formation.

I didn't see him dance/stutter step at the LoS on either of those sets.

Tremendous job by that young man.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Meh.. strikes me as a lot like Ron Wolfley.

And credit where it's due: I thought Harrison was magnificent as the up man on kick returns and as one of the backs/safeties in the Victory formation.

I didn't see him dance/stutter step at the LoS on either of those sets.

Tremendous job by that young man.

Who would win in a dance off, Harrison or Saine?

[aoxo1]

We've been waiting for a physical team for 10 years. They're just about there.

Team has been finding its identity for 4 weeks now, and they just about have it.

[FUDU]

We've been waiting for a physical team for 10 years. They're just about there.

Team has been finding its identity for 4 weeks now, and they just about have it.

Yep, although it is a rather strange version of the WCO if you ask me. I can live with these baby steps though.

[peeker643]

We've been waiting for a physical team for 10 years. They're just about there.

Team has been finding its identity for 4 weeks now, and they just about have it.

I said it in another thread, but the hit that Ward laid on Shipley was notice served about the physical nature of this football team.

Jesus, that kid is a heat-seeking fucking missile. He plays fast and he's ALWAYS near the ball. He also moves bodies. Glancing shots sent TO and others backward this afternooon.

Now, I'm fully expecting (like with Ed Reed and Bob Sanders, etc) that guys that run into big and fast things like Ward and Hillis do will miss games.

But holy crap, that kid is a monster. Every hit is a train wreck. And Hillis might be the offensive version of that. No one wants a piece at all if he gets two or three steps into a run. Get him real early or get a real big jolt.

[Fire Marshall Bill]

strikes me as a lot like Ron Wolfley.

Marv Hubbard

[FUDU]

We've been waiting for a physical team for 10 years. They're just about there.

Team has been finding its identity for 4 weeks now, and they just about have it.

I said it in another thread, but the hit that Ward laid on Shipley was notice served about the physical nature of this football team.

Jesus, that kid is a heat-seeking fucking missile. He plays fast and he's ALWAYS near the ball. He also moves bodies. Glancing shots sent TO and others backward this afternooon.

Now, I'm fully expecting (like with Ed Reed and Bob Sanders, etc) that guys that run into big and fast things like Ward and Hillis do will miss games.

But holy crap, that kid is a monster. Every hit is a train wreck. And Hillis might be the offensive version of that. No one wants a piece at all if he gets two or three steps into a run. Get him real early or get a real big jolt.

Ok so lay it on me, was at the game (so couldn't get a good look at Ward hit replays) was it legal? If so was it called b/c it was late? B/C that is all I can see that might have been reason for flag. However while at game I could see one thing, our WRs cannot get open on their own, ugh. The potential of our best WR is as an average number 2 IMO.

[SoulDawg74]

We've been waiting for a physical team for 10 years. They're just about there.

Team has been finding its identity for 4 weeks now, and they just about have it.

I said it in another thread, but the hit that Ward laid on Shipley was notice served about the physical nature of this football team.

Jesus, that kid is a heat-seeking fucking missile. He plays fast and he's ALWAYS near the ball. He also moves bodies. Glancing shots sent TO and others backward this afternooon.

Now, I'm fully expecting (like with Ed Reed and Bob Sanders, etc) that guys that run into big and fast things like Ward and Hillis do will miss games.

But holy crap, that kid is a monster. Every hit is a train wreck. And Hillis might be the offensive version of that. No one wants a piece at all if he gets two or three steps into a run. Get him real early or get a real big jolt.

Ok so lay it on me, was at the game (so couldn't get a good look at Ward hit replays) was it legal? If so was it called b/c it was late? B/C that is all I can see that might have been reason for flag. However while at game I could see one thing, our WRs cannot get open on their own, ugh. The potential of our best WR is as an average number 2 IMO.

SD:

The Ward hit was something Jack Tatum strived to do every game and at least three times
on Sunday if it was against the inbred .

I got Five bucks on his fine , because the pussified NFL is sure to hit him with at least a $10,000.00 penalty after all that boo hooin Gannon was spoutin

[peeker643]

Ok so lay it on me, was at the game (so couldn't get a good look at Ward hit replays) was it legal? If so was it called b/c it was late? B/C that is all I can see that might have been reason for flag. However while at game I could see one thing, our WRs cannot get open on their own, ugh. The potential of our best WR is as an average number 2 IMO.

No. I didn't think it was late, I didn't think it was a head shot and I was not at all surprised it was called.

Mostly because it was vicious, loud and may have been the result of the officials seeing Shipley as defenseless.

I'm not kidding Donny: he lit him up like a Christmas tree and immediately people gasped, covered their faces and then watched as Bengals players called for the trainers.

It was beautiful. More so because Shipley ultimately sat up and walked off but mostly because it was vicious.

The receivers are horrible. If Moore and Wtson can't get in the seam the offense is reliant exclusively on 5 yards a carry from Hillis.

[peeker643]

SD:

The Ward hit was something Jack Tatum strived to do every game and at least three times
on Sunday if it was against the inbred .

I got Five bucks on his fine , because the pussified NFL is sure to hit him with at least a $10,000.00 penalty after all that boo hooin Gannon was spoutin

Well then we should take up a collection because for the first time in 10 years there's a kid on the field you can't take your eyes off when the ball is snapped.

[yogi]

Gary on his front page article called it a helemt on helmet hit, but he's mistaken. Ward hit him with his shoulder and from my point of view it appeared to be a bang bang play. Ward was out to lay the wood to separate Shipley from the ball like any good safety is taught and did not have time to alter the hit once the ball was dropped.

IMO, it was a great hit shaped to shake the ball loose, not a cheap late shot.

The kid is a keeper!

[aoxo1]

The flag was out immediately, not a response to seeing Shipley lying there.

It was a reasonable call considering how things are called now. Way more reasonable than the hit on Watson.

[SoulDawg74]

SD:

The Ward hit was something Jack Tatum strived to do every game and at least three times
on Sunday if it was against the inbred .

I got Five bucks on his fine , because the pussified NFL is sure to hit him with at least a $10,000.00 penalty after all that boo hooin Gannon was spoutin

Well then we should take up a collection because for the first time in 10 years there's a kid on the field you can't take your eyes off when the ball is snapped.

SD:

Shit lets make it a bounty and let him wipe that smile off whines Wards pouch.


SoulDawg

[peeker643]

The flag was out immediately, not a response to seeing Shipley lying there.

It was a reasonable call considering how things are called now. Way more reasonable than the hit on Watson.

Not sure who this is addressed to but....

I never said it was because Shipley was laying there. I said it was because he was defenseless once the ball went by him.

I also said I expected it, especially in this day and age.

But I don't care that he was penalized, even after Bengals scored on next play. That play meant far more that a new set of downs at the 3 yard line.

Worth every yard and point it cost IMO.

[peeker643]

Gary on his front page article called it a helemt on helmet hit, but he's mistaken. Ward hit him with his shoulder and from my point of view it appeared to be a bang bang play. Ward was out to lay the wood to separate Shipley from the ball like any good safety is taught and did not have time to alter the hit once the ball was dropped.

IMO, it was a great hit shaped to shake the ball loose, not a cheap late shot.

The kid is a keeper!

Not even close to helmet on helmet from my vantage point.

Shoulder to throat? Yeah....right neighborhood.

[Triple-S]

These are the type of players I want.

I want when the words Cleveland or Browns are uttered for players on the Rats, Inbred or Bungles to just wince in pain.

[JJN]

"No. I tried to lead with my shoulder,'' [Ward] said. "It's a physical game out there. No one's trying to hurt anybody to the point they can't play. We'll see what the ruling is and hopefully they see it in my favor.''

Ward vowed that the hit won't change his big-hitting style.

"No. I'm going to try to be more precise where I hit him, but it's not going to change how I play.''

Even if he gets fined?

"I'm not saying that. I'm going to try to hit him where I can't get a fine,'' he said. "I believe I led with my shoulder. I may have got a little helmet, but I didn't lead with my helmet. I didn't try to hit him under his helmet at all.''

Ward said given the circumstances "I would have done it again. I was upset with the ruling and the flag given that it was third down. But who knows? If I didn't hit him he might have caught a touchdown.''

He said he didn't ask for an explanation from the ref.

"I just walked back to the huddle,'' he said. "Some of their players came over and tried to yap at me, but I ignored them.''

He said he's not worried about getting a bad reputation.

"Whatever my reputation is, that's what it is,'' he said. "I'm not going to stop playing how I play. That makes me the player I am.''

http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-bl ... _terr.html

I love this kid's attitude.

[hermanfontenot]

There's more to love about T.J. than the hits. The kid's technique when it comes to tackling is flawless. He wraps guys up and they go down. He just doesn't miss.

To me he's a better pure tackler than E-Rock (RIP) was at the same stage in his career.

Now where was this kid when Posey and Lil' Dane were running free through Oregon's secondary in last season's Rose Bowl?

[peeker643]

There's more to love about T.J. than the hits. The kid's technique when it comes to tackling is flawless. He wraps guys up and they go down. He just doesn't miss.

To me he's a better pure tackler than E-Rock (RIP) was at the same stage in his career.

Now where was this kid when Posey and Lil' Dane were running free through Oregon's secondary in last season's Rose Bowl?

Good point on his technique. Not just the tackling but the coverage as well. He's a good defender when it's his number called to man-up a receiver. He's young, makes some mistakes and will learn more as he plays, but the kid just knows how to play. And you can see heads turning and looking when he's running down kickoffs too.


He's a beast. And despite the difference in size, I have to say that Joe Haden is a willing hitter too.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I'm so glad to say I was wrong about Ward. So far he's held up great and looks to be the hitter we need so badly.

[FUDU]

Actually heard some fans at the game claiming Hillis as pretty over rated...WTF? Have people become so enamored with HR hitters that lack true consistency with tough positive yardage that they cannot see Hillis true worth?

He has decent acceleration and explosiveness for his size and style. He is no doubt powerful and a real problem to bring down one on one and even two one one with a full head of steam. He has respectable vision and pretty damn good hands (as a receiver). He pretty much gets you positive yards every time, if not he doesn't make a bad run worse...and he is doing all this with on offense that poses little to no threat of a fearful passing game, when in many spots everyone within the sun's orbit knows he is getting the ball. Imagine if the defense just wasn't sure if Hillis' number was going to be called.

[hermanfontenot]

BTW, Peyton is on pace to be the first white running back to rush for 1,000 yards since Craig James in 1985.

White power!

[SoulDawg74]

BTW, Peyton is on pace to be the first white running back to rush for 1,000 yards since Craig James in 1985.

White power!

SD:

Gasp all this time I thought he was a Brown

[motherscratcher]

He's white? No wonder the only running backs he's allowed to be compared to are Mike Alstott and John Riggins.

[Erie Warrior]

For grins. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17642

[hermanfontenot]

He's white? No wonder the only running backs he's allowed to be compared to are Mike Alstott and John Riggins.

I was going to compare him to Zach Crockett, then I remembered the rule. (I killed with Crockett in Madden '97.)

[Rat_Tail]

Picked him up in fantasy week 1. He got me 17 points this week.

[yogi]

Gary on his front page article called it a helemt on helmet hit, but he's mistaken. Ward hit him with his shoulder and from my point of view it appeared to be a bang bang play. Ward was out to lay the wood to separate Shipley from the ball like any good safety is taught and did not have time to alter the hit once the ball was dropped.

IMO, it was a great hit shaped to shake the ball loose, not a cheap late shot.

The kid is a keeper!

Not even close to helmet on helmet from my vantage point.

Shoulder to throat? Yeah....right neighborhood.

This picture shows 2 things... a shoulder hit to the upper chest and via the location of the ball, it wasnt late either.

Kids my fav already!



found it on You tube, its a keeper

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfoPYpC4pyY

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

It was flagged because defenders are no longer allowed to launch themselves in the air to smash into a receiver who is trying to catch the ball. It will be called every time this year. It was called when one of the Bengals did the same thing to Ben Watson earlier in the game.

NFL has decided this type of hit leads to injury. It will no longer allow it.

[leadpipe]

Bottom line - you can only hit so hard in the modern NFL.

Ask Chuck Cecil. Cost him his career.

[mattvan1]

I'm with Peeks on this. Was it a penalty? Who cares?

It's an attitude. Now we're starting to see it on both sides of the ball. For all those crying for an identity for this team - one is starting to emerge. The 2010 Cleveland Browns - "We may not have a lot of talent, but we'll sure as shit hit you in the mouth"

[peeker643]

It was flagged because defenders are no longer allowed to launch themselves in the air to smash into a receiver who is trying to catch the ball. It will be called every time this year. It was called when one of the Bengals did the same thing to Ben Watson earlier in the game.

NFL has decided this type of hit leads to injury. It will no longer allow it.

Correct.

But he didn't launch himself. Never left his feet and never hit the ground.

Doesn't matter. In the end that flag was thrown because of the sound and the violence of the hit.

I had a guy write to me after reading The Wrap who said he was on the 50 yard line and thought the hit was mic-ed. It was that loud 55 yards away in a crowded stadium.

[motherscratcher]

I haven't looked at the replay yet on youtube, but it looked to me like TJ's helmet might have hit the guy's helmet before TJ's shoulder hit him. Not that there's anything TJ could have really done to prevent it. I'm with you guys. I loved it. It's football and you HAVE to have guys that are capable of that.

But, there was a minute there, while he was laying on the field, where I was genuinely scared for that guy.

EDIT: I've looked at the youtube upthread. It really does look to me like his helmet hit first. On the replay at about 7 seconds.

[aoxo1]

Really yogi? You got a still and use it as evidence that his helmet didn't hit Shipley's helmet and the hit was on time? Even when you post the video showing (a) his helmet did hit Shipley's and (b) the ball hit the ground and bounced up before Ward hit him?

I have no problem with the hit; I'm completely in Peeker's and everyone else's camp here. But come on!

[yogi]

Really yogi? You got a still and use it as evidence that his helmet didn't hit Shipley's helmet and the hit was on time? Even when you post the video showing (a) his helmet did hit Shipley's and (b) the ball hit the ground and bounced up before Ward hit him?

I have no problem with the hit; I'm completely in Peeker's and everyone else's camp here. But come on!

I don't know what you are talking about, seriously.

I saw no helmet to helmet hit. Plenty of others chimed in here and wrote the same thing.

The hit was a split second after Shipley dropped the ball. IMO, not enough time for Ward to alter his course.

Now I'm ok with the penalty if there is a rule that outlaws leading with the shoulder to the chest, but if there isnt and the ref deemed it head to head, then they were incorrect just as you are.

[motherscratcher]

It was head to head. In your own youtube video. I don't understand how you can't see it. It looks pretty clear to me.

[Triple-S]

Getting back to the Hillis topic at hand, would be really curious to see how well he could be used in a tandem with say...a early round drafted back.

Not sold on Hardesty, I'm going to assume at this point that he won't really contribute all that much in the next coming years, maybe we'll get him back healthy next year? who knows.

But you're able to have a back like hillis and maybe someone with a little more acceleration and speed running behind Lawrence Vickers, who is more of a prototypical runningback (sorry, Harrison still to me, looks like he's lost a step), I would love to see that. We've found a piece of the puzzle, but the other piece still needs to be found.

BTW, Vickers is by far, the most underrated player on this team. The blocks that guy puts on week after week really should be getting more notice from the press and the fans.

[scott]

He didn't spear him. It doesn't look like there was intent to hit him helmet-to-helmet, but there was a little contact. They're gonna call that.

Next time he'll square around a little, get the guy full on with his shoulder and the result will be the same.

[Erie Warrior]

It was head to head. In your own youtube video. I don't understand how you can't see it. It looks pretty clear to me.

Well, that's like, your opinion, man.

It was clean. Shoulder pad gets him first, contact between helmets after. Good on him, if he gets fined, I'll send him some cash.

[motherscratcher]

It was head to head. In your own youtube video. I don't understand how you can't see it. It looks pretty clear to me.

Well, that's like, your opinion, man.

It was clean. Shoulder pad gets him first, contact between helmets after. Good on him, if he gets fined, I'll send him some cash.

I guess his shoulderpad might have hit him first. I can't really tell. To tell you the truth, I have no idea if that makes it "clean" or not. I don't know the rule all that well.

I just figured a helmet to helmet hit was against the rules (whether the shoulder actually hit first or not), and as far as I can tell, the helmets definitely hit. Tis what tis.

I'd like to reiterate that I absolutely loved the hit. It scared the shit out of me, and I hope Shipley's OK. If I was his teammate I probably would have been pissed. I thought it was a foul and I wasn't surprised they called it.

But, as a Brown's fan...that hit was fuckin' tits, man.

[Hikohadon]

Not sold on Hardesty, I'm going to assume at this point that he won't really contribute all that much in the next coming years, maybe we'll get him back healthy next year? who knows.

Personally, I'm going to assume that he will come back from his surgery just like anyone else comes back from their surgery. IMO, assuming one guy is more likely to get injured than another is like the Easter Bunny. Meaning not real.

Guys get hurt in football. It's random. You never know when or how. Some are unluckier than others, but that's not a predicter of their future luck.

Remember, TJ Ward was also an "Injury disaster" when he was drafted...

[Loo]

It's so, so nice to have a Browns team with an identity via Hillis' running the ball. Thank goodness.

And on the Ward hit--you know it's a great hit when the first words in your head are "He's not getting up."

[Lubber]

Watching the replay over, Ward did lead with his shoulder. However, Shipley was leaning foward so their helmets did actually touch, but Ward's heard was turned to the side. I am thinking the refs threw the flags because the ball was clearly on the ground and Ward took a step and then popped him. It was definitely a bang bang play, and a clean hit, but just a little late, especially with all the new rules in the NFL these days.

[Ziner]

IMO the refs threw the flag because it was a huge hit. That's how it works now. There is little doubt that their helmets did touch, but from what I understand the rule is leading with the helmet. Ward by no means lead with his helmet. I also don't believe this garbage about the ball being late and he should have let up. It is a split second decision, Ward had missle lock and took the shot. I'd take that 10 times out of 10 than have a guy pull up when he had a chance to knock the ball out. The same people that are saying Ward hit late and should have let up were mocking Kiwanuka a few years ago when he let Vince Young go when they didn't blow the whistle for the sack. It's football, play the damn game.

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

Ward went after the guy's head -- or at least appeared to -- which is a no-no in the NFL now. It will be called every single time.

Figures the Browns get a big-hit safety right around the time big hits become illegal.

[FUDU]

The picture up thread could be valuable, like a clear photo of Bigfoot would be, I mean Eric Wright is actually in the picture with the receiver, and it is not blury.

[BruceK]

The arm action (jacking up his forearm as he delivered the blow) probably also contributed to the call

[SoulDawg74]

The arm action (jacking up his forearm as he delivered the blow) probably also contributed to the call

Hells Bells the man was just defending himself