Locker, Luck, or Mallet? Or Pryor?

[peeker643]

Peek I guess my counter would be that 6-6" without those weaknesses should work too right?

Sure. Who we talking about?

[JCoz]

Peek I guess my counter would be that 6-6" without those weaknesses should work too right?

Sure. Who we talking about?

No one I know, lol.

[peeker643]

Peek I guess my counter would be that 6-6" without those weaknesses should work too right?

Sure. Who we talking about?

No one I know, lol.

[Erie Warrior]

It doesn't matter how good the DE is that you draft, if your QB sucks, even Reggie White can't help you that much.

In a vacuum, this is correct. But, Reggie White won't hurt you. Dan Mcgwire will. Are they going to the Super Bowl without a quality QB, no. But we're talking about not sucking. Baby steps. I'd rather take a 3rd round flier on a project, then burn a #1 on "makes all the throws".

Go ugly early, until you have enough uglys to win a street fight.

[SoulDawg74]

I am all in favor of SD's suggestion of bringing in Nate Davis, for the short term at least, if's it's workable...if only to put a dynamic athlete onto a roster that has so few of them.

SD:

Football is the same now as when Vince Lombardi succinctly coined the phrase .

""YOU WIN WITH PEOPLE ""

He wasn't thinking of jake Delhomme Barton Viekune and Chansi Stuckey
let alone weak sisters of the poor like Colt Mccoy when he was immortalizing the grail.


We have far too many Rudi's choir boys and ex Jets , no bad boys and no playmakers .

Nate is rough , but he can complete a 70yard bomb or break off a 60 yard run , and we don't have a signal caller that can do either.


SoulDawg

[aoxo1]

It doesn't matter how good the DE is that you draft, if your QB sucks, even Reggie White can't help you that much.

In a vacuum, this is correct. But, Reggie White won't hurt you. Dan Mcgwire will. Are they going to the Super Bowl without a quality QB, no. But we're talking about not sucking. Baby steps. I'd rather take a 3rd round flier on a project, then burn a #1 on "makes all the throws".

Go ugly early, until you have enough uglys to win a street fight.

Well for pete's sake, of course drafting a bust is going to be a waste. Is anyone here advocating they draft a QB just for the sake of drafting a QB?

Courtney Brown doesn't do you any favors either, FTR.

[motherscratcher]

It doesn't matter how good the DE is that you draft, if your QB sucks, even Reggie White can't help you that much.

In a vacuum, this is correct. But, Reggie White won't hurt you. Dan Mcgwire will. Are they going to the Super Bowl without a quality QB, no. But we're talking about not sucking. Baby steps. I'd rather take a 3rd round flier on a project, then burn a #1 on "makes all the throws".

Go ugly early, until you have enough uglys to win a street fight.

Well for pete's sake, of course drafting a bust is going to be a waste. Is anyone here advocating they draft a QB just for the sake of drafting a QB?

Courtney Brown doesn't do you any favors either, FTR.

Wait a second. With the Browns drafting record maybe they SHOULD try to draft a QB bust. You're a genius.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

It doesn't matter how good the DE is that you draft, if your QB sucks, even Reggie White can't help you that much.

In a vacuum, this is correct. But, Reggie White won't hurt you. Dan Mcgwire will. Are they going to the Super Bowl without a quality QB, no. But we're talking about not sucking. Baby steps. I'd rather take a 3rd round flier on a project, then burn a #1 on "makes all the throws".

Go ugly early, until you have enough uglys to win a street fight.

Well for pete's sake, of course drafting a bust is going to be a waste. Is anyone here advocating they draft a QB just for the sake of drafting a QB?

Courtney Brown doesn't do you any favors either, FTR.

Wait a second. With the Browns drafting record maybe they SHOULD try to draft a QB bust. You're a genius.

I don't think it works like that.

[smalls1129]

After Saturday, Luck has my vote by far. Athletic, with a good arm, running a pro offense. Only negative, same can be said of all the QB's at USC under Carrol and not all have panned out.

[SoulDawg74]

After Saturday, Luck has my vote by far. Athletic, with a good arm, running a pro offense. Only negative, same can be said of all the QB's at USC under Carrol and not all have panned out.

SD:

Luck plays for Stanford and is coached by Harbaugh , although USC has a very good true Soph ,worthy of this discussion but alas ineligible for next years draft.


SoulDawg

[smalls1129]

After Saturday, Luck has my vote by far. Athletic, with a good arm, running a pro offense. Only negative, same can be said of all the QB's at USC under Carrol and not all have panned out.

SD:

Luck plays for Stanford and is coached by Harbaugh , although USC has a very good true Soph ,worthy of this discussion but alas ineligible for next years draft.


SoulDawg

Was more referring to the NFL success of Carrol's QB's. Because there really weren't any on Saturday, what are Luck's weaknesses?

[noles1]

Put me fully on-board the Luck bandwagon. Been that way since last year.

Hell at this point, put my on board the Harbaugh-next coach bandwagon.

[Hikohadon]

It doesn't matter how good the DE is that you draft, if your QB sucks, even Reggie White can't help you that much.

In a vacuum, this is correct. But, Reggie White won't hurt you. Dan Mcgwire will. Are they going to the Super Bowl without a quality QB, no. But we're talking about not sucking. Baby steps. I'd rather take a 3rd round flier on a project, then burn a #1 on "makes all the throws".

Go ugly early, until you have enough uglys to win a street fight.

Didn't we just do that?

Baby steps indeed.

[SoulDawg74]

After Saturday, Luck has my vote by far. Athletic, with a good arm, running a pro offense. Only negative, same can be said of all the QB's at USC under Carrol and not all have panned out.

SD:

Luck plays for Stanford and is coached by Harbaugh , although USC has a very good true Soph ,worthy of this discussion but alas ineligible for next years draft.


SoulDawg

Was more referring to the NFL success of Carrol's QB's. Because there really weren't any on Saturday, what are Luck's weaknesses?

SD:

Like finding flaws in Diamonds at this point .

The only thing separating him from the boys on Sunday is game experience.

His Dads pedigree gives him true bonafides.


SoulDawg

[OldDawg]

I'll take Luck. Not sure why, mostly no confidence in the other two.

But does it matter? Does anyone actually think that the Browns can draft a first round QB and not be a bust? When was the last QB we drafted to have a winning record in starts for the Browns? (I'm actually asking, cause I have no freaking clue.)

1985 Supplemental Draft, we took the QB from the University of Miami.

Yeah, but we didn't draft Bernie. He drafted us. He manipulated the whole thing so he would be a Brown. God bless the guy!

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Michael Vick

[hermanfontenot]

Michael Vick

Not the worst idea ever put forth by any means.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Not the worst idea ever put forth by any means.

Amazing its come to that, eh?

I just want to win now and not wait three-four years to see how badly the next franchise saviour will fuck things up.

[jb]

I am all in favor of SD's suggestion of bringing in Nate Davis, for the short term at least, if's it's workable...if only to put a dynamic athlete onto a roster that has so few of them.

SD:

Football is the same now as when Vince Lombardi succinctly coined the phrase .

""YOU WIN WITH PEOPLE ""

He wasn't thinking of jake Delhomme Barton Viekune and Chansi Stuckey
let alone weak sisters of the poor like Colt Mccoy when he was immortalizing the grail.

heyzeus man, I can deal with your rantings, but not when you mix up immortal quotes.

"You win with people" is from Woody fuckin' Hayes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woody_Hayes#Notable_quotes

http://www.amazon.com/You-win-people-Woody-Hayes/dp/B0006CC1DG


And BTW, Vince Lombardi built a dynasty on alike a 17th round draft pick he found sitting on the bench at QB. Woody played a 4th RB at QB for almost all of his career. Kern converted to S in the NFL.

Where is my head shaking icon, dammit?

Now I agree that if mangini is still here the franchise will undervalue QB's and as of now bama's marcell dareus looks the part of a mangini pick and I owuldn't cry about him, but stop disrepescting Woody you senile old coot.

Now business: This is still Sunday football. I don't care about Phipps, Couch or all the busts in the world. You give Mike Holmgren and John Gruden a shot at the helm, you gota go franchise QB prospect. Else pick another brain trust.

[bucknutz94]

Hey, Uncle Rico coulda won state if the coach woulda put him in fourth quarter. Everyone knows that.

[SoulDawg74]

I am all in favor of SD's suggestion of bringing in Nate Davis, for the short term at least, if's it's workable...if only to put a dynamic athlete onto a roster that has so few of them.

SD:

Football is the same now as when Vince Lombardi succinctly coined the phrase .

""YOU WIN WITH PEOPLE ""

He wasn't thinking of jake Delhomme Barton Viekune and Chansi Stuckey
let alone weak sisters of the poor like Colt Mccoy when he was immortalizing the grail.

heyzeus man, I can deal with your rantings, but not when you mix up immortal quotes.

"You win with people" is from Woody fuckin' Hayes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woody_Hayes#Notable_quotes

http://www.amazon.com/You-win-people-Woody-Hayes/dp/B0006CC1DG


And BTW, Vince Lombardi built a dynasty on alike a 17th round draft pick he found sitting on the bench at QB. Woody played a 4th RB at QB for almost all of his career. Kern converted to S in the NFL.

Where is my head shaking icon, dammit?

Now I agree that if mangini is still here the franchise will undervalue QB's and as of now bama's marcell dareus looks the part of a mangini pick and I owuldn't cry about him, but stop disrepescting Woody you senile old coot.

Now business: This is still Sunday football. I don't care about Phipps, Couch or all the busts in the world. You give Mike Holmgren and John Gruden a shot at the helm, you gota go franchise QB prospect. Else pick another brain trust.

SD:

JB make me the case where it makes sense for Gruden to come in here as the third banana .

The only reason Holmgren hasn't taken over is because of the fact we don't have a QB,

The only way we can get a franchise pick now after passing on both Freeman and the Sanchise is thru continuos suck .

Holmgren has a built in scapegoat and fall guy to blame for this soon to be epic losing season , and the horse is already stabled and saddled for him to come in on his shinny white Armor and save the day.


SoulDawg

[motherscratcher]

Holmgren has a built in scapegoat and fall guy to blame for this soon to be epic losing season , and the horse is already stabled and saddled for him to come in on his shinny white Armor and save the day.


SoulDawg

I think that may be the case here. Holmgren kept Mangini around so that he could have 2 offseasons instead of one to rebuild for either Chucky or himself. I'm just not quite as convinced yet as you are that he wants to step back in.

The only problem with the plan would be...what if the Browns win 7-8 games?

[Hikohadon]

Holmgren has a built in scapegoat and fall guy to blame for this soon to be epic losing season , and the horse is already stabled and saddled for him to come in on his shinny white Armor and save the day.


SoulDawg

I think that may be the case here. Holmgren kept Mangini around so that he could have 2 offseasons instead of one to rebuild for either Chucky or himself. I'm just not quite as convinced yet as you are that he wants to step back in.

The only problem with the plan would be...what if the Browns win 7-8 games?

That's why they kept Daboll around - to ensure that doesn't/can't happen.

[jb]

I am all in favor of SD's suggestion of bringing in Nate Davis, for the short term at least, if's it's workable...if only to put a dynamic athlete onto a roster that has so few of them.

SD:

Football is the same now as when Vince Lombardi succinctly coined the phrase .

""YOU WIN WITH PEOPLE ""

He wasn't thinking of jake Delhomme Barton Viekune and Chansi Stuckey
let alone weak sisters of the poor like Colt Mccoy when he was immortalizing the grail.

heyzeus man, I can deal with your rantings, but not when you mix up immortal quotes.

"You win with people" is from Woody fuckin' Hayes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woody_Hayes#Notable_quotes

http://www.amazon.com/You-win-people-Woody-Hayes/dp/B0006CC1DG


And BTW, Vince Lombardi built a dynasty on alike a 17th round draft pick he found sitting on the bench at QB. Woody played a 4th RB at QB for almost all of his career. Kern converted to S in the NFL.

Where is my head shaking icon, dammit?

Now I agree that if mangini is still here the franchise will undervalue QB's and as of now bama's marcell dareus looks the part of a mangini pick and I owuldn't cry about him, but stop disrepescting Woody you senile old coot.

Now business: This is still Sunday football. I don't care about Phipps, Couch or all the busts in the world. You give Mike Holmgren and John Gruden a shot at the helm, you gota go franchise QB prospect. Else pick another brain trust.

SD:

JB make me the case where it makes sense for Gruden to come in here as the third banana .

The only reason Holmgren hasn't taken over is because of the fact we don't have a QB,

The only way we can get a franchise pick now after passing on both Freeman and the Sanchise is thru continuos suck .

Holmgren has a built in scapegoat and fall guy to blame for this soon to be epic losing season , and the horse is already stabled and saddled for him to come in on his shinny white Armor and save the day.


SoulDawg

Could sure as shit see that hppening. Nt sayin' he set it up that way on purpose, but it could go down that way.

It was a win-win all along. tak ethis year to get his FO set up so he didn't hav eto fight a 2 front war and see if mangini sinks or swims. He swims and Mike's got a better job than Colt McCoy. Sinks and he's back doing what he loves.

[jb]

Both Luck and Mallett are on national TV this saturday at 3:30 pm.

DVR and strat taking notes...

[JCoz]

Both Luck and Mallett are on national TV this saturday at 3:30 pm.

DVR and strat taking notes...

Against Bama no less. We will learn alot about both Malett and the rebuilt Bama defense (9 new starters)

First offense with a pulse this season for Bama.

[jb]

Both Luck and Mallett are on national TV this saturday at 3:30 pm.

DVR and strat taking notes...

Against Bama no less. We will learn alot about both Malett and the rebuilt Bama defense (9 new starters)

First offense with a pulse this season for Bama.

Watch 57 on bama D .

[JCoz]

Yeah Darius (sp) is a beast.

Might be the heaviest notable college DE I've seen in some time, listed at 306lbs right now.

[jb]

Yeah Darius (sp) is a beast.

Might be the heaviest notable college DE I've seen in some time, listed at 306lbs right now.

Be the most perfect 3 - 4 DE pospect since Wilfork IMhO.

I [promise you he's a patriot next season and not a Brown. :-(

[JCoz]

Yeah Darius (sp) is a beast.

Might be the heaviest notable college DE I've seen in some time, listed at 306lbs right now.

Be the most perfect 3 - 4 DE pospect since Wilfork IMhO.

I [promise you he's a patriot next season and not a Brown. :-(

The most perfect? Depends on what type of 3-4 I guess, but Clayborn and Heyward wouldn't be such bad consolation prizes for whoever gets them...

[jb]

Yeah Darius (sp) is a beast.

Might be the heaviest notable college DE I've seen in some time, listed at 306lbs right now.

Be the most perfect 3 - 4 DE pospect since Wilfork IMhO.

I [promise you he's a patriot next season and not a Brown. :-(

The most perfect? Depends on what type of 3-4 I guess, but Clayborn and Heyward wouldn't be such bad consolation prizes for whoever gets them...

Wouldn't want Claybourn anywhere near a 3 - 4. Heyward can probably swing, but for a 3 - 4 give me the zuper fat assed athlete size.

[JCoz]

Yeah Darius (sp) is a beast.

Might be the heaviest notable college DE I've seen in some time, listed at 306lbs right now.

Be the most perfect 3 - 4 DE pospect since Wilfork IMhO.

I [promise you he's a patriot next season and not a Brown. :-(

The most perfect? Depends on what type of 3-4 I guess, but Clayborn and Heyward wouldn't be such bad consolation prizes for whoever gets them...

Wouldn't want Claybourn anywhere near a 3 - 4. Heyward can probably swing, but for a 3 - 4 give me the zuper fat assed athlete size.

I can't pretend to have a deep knowledge of different 3-4 styles in the NFL, a cursory look at 3-4 rosters in the NFL would seem to indicate that the Cowboys, Pats, Jets, and baltimore agree with you, with maybe the Chargers and Steelers being possibly a little less rigid regarding the sheer mass of their 3-4 ends.

[jb]

Yeah Darius (sp) is a beast.

Might be the heaviest notable college DE I've seen in some time, listed at 306lbs right now.

Be the most perfect 3 - 4 DE pospect since Wilfork IMhO.

I [promise you he's a patriot next season and not a Brown. :-(

The most perfect? Depends on what type of 3-4 I guess, but Clayborn and Heyward wouldn't be such bad consolation prizes for whoever gets them...

Wouldn't want Claybourn anywhere near a 3 - 4. Heyward can probably swing, but for a 3 - 4 give me the zuper fat assed athlete size.

I can't pretend to have a deep knowledge of different 3-4 styles in the NFL, a cursory look at 3-4 rosters in the NFL would seem to indicate that the Cowboys, Pats, Jets, and baltimore agree with you, with maybe the Chargers and Steelers being possibly a little less rigid regarding the sheer mass of their 3-4 ends.

And Mangina is a BB tree guy. They all like the super sized DLmen who can control mutiple gaps and collapse the OL. BTW - Love Clayborn and Heyword as players and prospects. Just not for a 3 - 4 for Clayborn.

[Erie Warrior]

Not as a #1, but Greg McElroy is an interesting option. 3rd round maybe.

[noles1]

Hate that Notre Dame sucks so much...

Cannot get nearly a good enough read on Luck but I will say this. Guy knows how to look defenders off and seems to have a terrific grasp of the offense and where the reads and ball needs to go.

Will be flipping over to Bama-Arkansas to get a look at Mallet now.

[Erie Warrior]

Will be flipping over to Bama-Arkansas to get a look at Mallet now.

Forced a lot of throws in the 2nd half (not much help from his WR/RBs). Not sure how well he reads a D.

[BruceK]

Not Mallet

[hermanfontenot]

Some horrible decision-making from Mallet in the last few minutes of that game.

[leadpipe]

Some horrible decision-making from Mallet in the last few minutes of that game.

He sure did "DA" a few.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

I don't think i've ever seen an attempt to throw the ball away picked off..

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Some horrible decision-making from Mallet in the last few minutes of that game.

He reminded me of Colt McCoy

[peeker643]

There's one choice.

Your eyes and common sense ain't lying.

One choice no matter what the spin doctors say between now and April.

[SoulDawg74]

There's one choice.

Your eyes and common sense ain't lying.

One choice no matter what the spin doctors say between now and April.

SD:

Actually the best three Options are Luck Pryor and Moore out of Boise State .

Mallet is soft as tissue paper sees the rush and can't throw the ball on the move .

Locker is DA redux big strong and stoopid .



SoulDawg

[motherscratcher]

I'm not convinced that Pryor is going to come out yet. I guess we'll have to see how the season plays out. Luck seems like far and away the best bet out of those 3 SD. Although Pryor probably has the most upside, he has great potential to crash and burn.

[SoulDawg74]

I'm not convinced that Pryor is going to come out yet. I guess we'll have to see how the season plays out. Luck seems like far and away the best bet out of those 3 SD. Although Pryor probably has the most upside, he has great potential to crash and burn.

SD:

With the uncertainty of the CBA both Luck and Pryor could return for their Senior year
which would then leave Moore as our best option ( if we change over to the WCO as anticapted )even though he's a lefty and might be closer to a late 1st early second round talent .

Under that scenario we draft one of the top D lineman first add Moore , and
re-join the Luck Pryor hunt and debate again in 2012, with both guys having a
another year of work to add to the discussion.

At this point there is no question Luck is the more refined performer ,
Harbaugh is a tremendous coach(worthy of consideration as a Browns HC IMO) and

Pryor is a pure phenom although far from a finished project.

His physical talent is unsurpassed in both College and the Pros right now,

But we know all too well after seeing the Lebron failure its still about the intangibles.

An undefeated season and National Championship would cover a multitude of sins.

SoulDawg


SoulDawg

[peeker643]

But we know all too well after seeing the Lebron failure its still about the intangibles.

An undefeated season and National Championship would cover a multitude of sins.

SoulDawg


SoulDawg

Why would an undefeated season and a NC make Pryor a better pro? Is it similar to how it made Dorsey, Krenzel and Tebow better NFL QBs?

Not agreeing with that thought SD.

As to Locker/DA comparisons, if DA was half the athlete Locker is DA would be, well, much more athletic. Unfortunately I think DA may be a more accurate passer than Locker. Unless Locker is compensating for a really, really shitty supporting cast this season.

[SoulDawg74]

But we know all too well after seeing the Lebron failure its still about the intangibles.

An undefeated season and National Championship would cover a multitude of sins.

SoulDawg


SoulDawg

Why would an undefeated season and a NC make Pryor a better pro? Is it similar to how it made Dorsey, Krenzel and Tebow better NFL QBs?

Not agreeing with that thought SD.

As to Locker/DA comparisons, if DA was half the athlete Locker is DA would be, well, much more athletic. Unfortunately I think DA may be a more accurate passer than Locker. Unless Locker is compensating for a really, really shitty supporting cast this season.

SD:

INTANGIBLES , that extra something something which can't be defined .
Found in Champions guys who get it done in the Clutch when the pressure is greatest , by any means necessary .

You can debate the differences between locker and Da and the rest , not interested .

Luck and Pryor are the premiere top two Pro talents .

Different skill sets different levels of refinement but both with Championship type intangibles.

I could see either one leading the Browns to Championships properly supported with the
players and offensive scheme which compliments their abilities.

Not looking for good , I want a Great talent and both of those guys fit the bill.


SoulDawg


SoulDawg

[peeker643]

SD:

INTANGIBLES , that extra something something which can't be defined .
Found in Champions guys who get it done in the Clutch when the pressure is greatest , by any means necessary .

You can debate the differences between locker and Da and the rest , not interested .

Luck and Pryor are the premiere top two Pro talents .

Different skill sets different levels of refinement but both with Championship type intangibles.

I could see either one leading the Browns to Championships properly supported with the
players and offensive scheme which compliments their abilities.

Not looking for good , I want a Great talent and both of those guys fit the bill.


SoulDawg


SoulDawg

Again, I understand the intangibles part. But I don't see Pryor in the same league with Luck right now from a TANGIBLE standpoint. His motion needs work, his drops need work. He's still too long and loopy to the release.

NC ain't gonna change that any more than it did for Tebow and any more than intangibles made Krenzel and Dorsey's tangibles any better.


Physically Pryor has it all over those guys, no doubt. But throwing the football accurately and efficiently? Man, I'd put him behind all three of the guys we're talking about if you're looking at just that. Again, he's got time to grow and improve if he stays. But he's not close enough to a finished product to choose over Luck, Locker or Mallett in 2011 draft. And those guys being there this year is one more reason I think he stays for his senior year. Get rid of draft competiton and let the NFL CBA issue resolve.

YMMV

[SoulDawg74]

SD:

INTANGIBLES , that extra something something which can't be defined .
Found in Champions guys who get it done in the Clutch when the pressure is greatest , by any means necessary .

You can debate the differences between locker and Da and the rest , not interested .

Luck and Pryor are the premiere top two Pro talents .

Different skill sets different levels of refinement but both with Championship type intangibles.

I could see either one leading the Browns to Championships properly supported with the
players and offensive scheme which compliments their abilities.

Not looking for good , I want a Great talent and both of those guys fit the bill.


SoulDawg


SoulDawg

Again, I understand the intangibles part. But I don't see Pryor in the same league with Luck right now from a TANGIBLE standpoint. His motion needs work, his drops need work. He's still too long and loopy to the release.

NC ain't gonna change that any more than it did for Tebow and any more than intangibles made Krenzel and Dorsey's tangibles any better.


Physically Pryor has it all over those guys, no doubt. But throwing the football accurately and efficiently? Man, I'd put him behind all three of the guys we're talking about if you're looking at just that. Again, he's got time to grow and improve if he stays. But he's not close enough to a finished product to choose over Luck, Locker or Mallett in 2011 draft. And those guys being there this year is one more reason I think he stays for his senior year. Get rid of draft competiton and let the NFL CBA issue resolve.

YMMV

SD:

My mileage does vary on this one .

Agree he's not more finished than Luck which makes Luck top dog , disagree that
still doesn't set him in a league apart from the rest , because I rate both superior to the rest of the field .

They are both hard boiled eggs developing a snipers view of their opponents

Because of that killer type instinct ,Pryor and Luck are the top dogs In my Book all others are also rans .

Don't get me wrong the other guys you mentioned aren't chopped liver , but they
aren't the creme delle creme monsters I see in these two.

Think Bird and Magic in the same draft class , you can win with either of them.
The skillset physical athletic contrast analogy fits .

SoulDawg

[JCoz]

Pryor is at most a 15% probability to go Pro. That's based on him saying multiple times that he is staying, and that his scouting sheet will come back and wont be a glowing Pro review IMO.

Not really much point discussing him vs Luck until he declares.