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Cleveland Browns & The NFL

Locker, Luck, or Mallet? Or Pryor?

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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:13 pm

Terrell Pryor has a LONG way to go before he's in the class with the rest of these guys.

The games changes, but prority 1 a,b & c is passing the football.
By the way, woth these spread attacks and joke out of conference schedules that fill college football....ya gotta watch these guys pass against teams that can man up. You know why Tyrod Taylor got embarrassed, and predictably so against Boise. Because when they play Crap University, and Crap University is forced to fill the box to stop Va. Tech's run game, well, those play action passes, where the cat is running 20 yards wide open? Tyrod Taylor and my Aunt can make that throw. When a team like Boise that can defend comes into town, they man up, and force Taylor to pass through some tight lanes and coverages...and he's unable.

Same with Pryor. Now, he's already better than Taylor, but look at the passing games he's had against the few teams that can man up with the Bucks. Not nearly good enough yet. And, this has nothing to do with OSU's or Tressell's approach to winning, but it has everything to do with how the guy is going to be viewed by the NFL.

And you'll get Kellen Moore beyond last year's predicted Darryl Clark territory.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:55 pm

JCoz wrote:Pryor is at most a 15% probability to go Pro. That's based on him saying multiple times that he is staying, and that his scouting sheet will come back and wont be a glowing Pro review IMO.

Not really much point discussing him vs Luck until he declares.


SD:

Well using that logic Luck is a Redshirt sophomore and although eligible has said he's
staying too.

January money and National title implications could revise both those futures.


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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby Triple-S » Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:29 pm

Pryor is going to have to stay in school for another year if he even wants a chance to sniff the first round.

At this point he's a 2nd rounder at best. (this would be assuming he has like..Vince Young like game in the BCS title game).
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:25 pm

Triple-S wrote:Pryor is going to have to stay in school for another year if he even wants a chance to sniff the first round.

At this point he's a 2nd rounder at best. (this would be assuming he has like..Vince Young like game in the BCS title game).


Yeah he's got Late second round written all over him :lmfao:
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby jb » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:45 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
Triple-S wrote:Pryor is going to have to stay in school for another year if he even wants a chance to sniff the first round.

At this point he's a 2nd rounder at best. (this would be assuming he has like..Vince Young like game in the BCS title game).


Yeah he's got Late second round written all over him :lmfao:



Isn't that where you projected Clark?
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:38 am

jb wrote:
SoulDawg74 wrote:
Triple-S wrote:Pryor is going to have to stay in school for another year if he even wants a chance to sniff the first round.

At this point he's a 2nd rounder at best. (this would be assuming he has like..Vince Young like game in the BCS title game).


Yeah he's got Late second round written all over him :lmfao:



Isn't that where you projected Clark?


SD:

does it matter , when you here what you want to here and discard all other context.

The Micheal Vick shameful fall from Grace didn't have one thing to do with how NFL ownership looked at investing money at that position., thats why bigger stronger McNabb type skillsets were eshewed for nice spindly good ole boys like McCoy.

And how did we pass on both Sanchez and Freeman both .

Said he had to take the path of Warren Moon as history repeats itself but you bust out,

""""OK got it Clark is Warren Moon."""

Said we should have gotten Vick as he cost nothing , where are all the posts deriding that position now.

Have allowed that Pryor is a Phenom butt far from finished , butt that somehow gets lost, along with my points about Luck being the most ready now , butt both having different butt truely elite talent sets.

Sure glad you boys cab keep me straight pointing out important shit like Sanchez ain't had a 300 yard game which makes Kolb so much more talented.....


Fuck it............... just fuck it .


WAR : Lady Quinn, third string is not a bust


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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby aoxo1 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:05 am

I STILL contend that we could pry Bartell from Washington, if only we gave up enough.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby Fire Marshall Bill » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:08 am

And how did we pass on both Sanchez and Freeman both .


According to this logic we never should have traded Braylon, either.

Personally, I never ever heard of Freeman till the day of the Bucs game...now he's supposed to be some kind of primo player after 3 games?

SD, you throw so much shit up against the wall the law of avgs dictates that you'll get a couple right in your lifetime but know that never will you get it right because you were right...

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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby Ziner » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:10 am

SoulDawg74 wrote:
WAR : Lady Quinn, third string is not a bust


SoulDawg


Come on now, he was 2nd string yesterday.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby FUDU » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:10 am

J. Freeman 20/31 184 5.9 0 1 67.1
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:32 am

FUDU wrote:J. Freeman 20/31 184 5.9 0 1 67.1



SD:

Got drafted during one of our trade downs , right about when we also passed on Clay Mathews.

Never pimped Freeman , but I did pimp the idea of dumping both Anderson and Quinn if thats what it took to move up and net Sanchez.

My point was the Browns in their wisdom passed on both guys who fell into their laps , not to mention spurning Clay Mathews Jr (which is anoither issue ) for the likes of
Lady Quinn , whose dirty panties were worshipped and sucked on by you morons when I said early and often that Bitch wasn't shit.

Doesn't matter .................

Only what you sheep think counts.


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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:28 pm

I'm with SD here, TP could be a stud at a few positions in the NFL. Work in progress, yes, but even if he fizzels at QB, cat could play a WR/TE in the slot and be absolutely uncoverable.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby Loo » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:39 pm

SD:

Why do you think Sanchez would have been good on this team?

In NY he has:

-THE best offensive line of all of football.
- A dynamic running game with two fantastic RB's in Greene and LT.
- One of the best defenses in all of football (since you keep bringing up their playoff success

In CLE he would have had:
- THE best LT in all of football...and maybe the worst right side.
- An average on a good day running game with Hillis and Harrison/Davis
- One of the worst defenses in all of football

Why would Sanchez have success here in his first year?
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby jb » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:16 pm

Loo wrote:SD:

Why do you think Sanchez would have been good on this team?

In NY he has:

-THE best offensive line of all of football.
- A dynamic running game with two fantastic RB's in Greene and LT.
- One of the best defenses in all of football (since you keep bringing up their playoff success

In CLE he would have had:
- THE best LT in all of football...and maybe the worst right side.
- An average on a good day running game with Hillis and Harrison/Davis
- One of the worst defenses in all of football

Why would Sanchez have success here in his first year?



You forgot WR's.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:21 pm

Loo wrote:SD:

Why do you think Sanchez would have been good on this team?

In NY he has:

-THE best offensive line of all of football.
- A dynamic running game with two fantastic RB's in Greene and LT.
- One of the best defenses in all of football (since you keep bringing up their playoff success

In CLE he would have had:
- THE best LT in all of football...and maybe the worst right side.
- An average on a good day running game with Hillis and Harrison/Davis
- One of the worst defenses in all of football

Why would Sanchez have success here in his first year?


SD:

While you raise a valid point about Clevelands ability to fuck up a wet dream in
regards to developing anybody let alone QB , what you have to look at with Mark goes past
the stats .

Dude comes up large in big games and doesn't shrink on the big scene, told Pete Carrol to
fuck off when that bastard selfishly tried to keep Sanchez in school for his own selfish
purposes, so he's smart enough to be his own man with maturity beyond his years ,

Son of a fire fighter and as such has a tremendous work ethic ,at the combine he was the
first QB to volunteer for every drill , stuff not required of QB's and offered to throw the
ball upon request in the parking lot if they didn't get enough in the dome.

Kid ain't afraid , is tough as nails having demonstrated as much playing with an injured
knee which required surgery after the season while leading a veteran team to two playoff
wins and within a half of beating Manning for a trip to the Soupie Bowl as a rookie .

Made the statement, I liked him over the far superior athlete Stafford in real time , because of his killer instinct and moxie.

Believe he'd of been a monster here in Cleveland an instant hit whose leadership
pluck determination and ability to throw the pill would have endeared him to Browns fans
like nobody since Brian and Bernie because the kid can make plays , is fearless
and has all the qualities of toughness and down to earth humility and fierce loyalty
that would build him an instant following in both the locker room and the stands with
the fans .

If we had the stones to step up and draft him Winslow and Edwards would have thought twice
before demanding to leave and we would have signaled to the rest of the NFL that the Browns were for real and no longer a fucking Joke.

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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby swerb » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:27 pm

I got Pryor at about a 60% shot to leave after this year.

And regardless of whether or not he leaves after this year or next, he ain't going anywhere near the second round. Matt Jones went top 15 as a WR. Pryor goes top 10 for sure, prolly top 5. And prolly after this year. You can lock that up.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:35 am

swerb wrote:I got Pryor at about a 60% shot to leave after this year.

And regardless of whether or not he leaves after this year or next, he ain't going anywhere near the second round. Matt Jones went top 15 as a WR. Pryor goes top 10 for sure, prolly top 5. And prolly after this year. You can lock that up.


Damn, I'll take that bet. Where do I sign?
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby tired » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:06 am

Browns need Luck I'm telling ya !!!
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby Loo » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:48 pm

swerb wrote:I got Pryor at about a 60% shot to leave after this year.

And regardless of whether or not he leaves after this year or next, he ain't going anywhere near the second round. Matt Jones went top 15 as a WR. Pryor goes top 10 for sure, prolly top 5. And prolly after this year. You can lock that up.


I love sarcasm. :dead:
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:59 pm

Loo wrote:
swerb wrote:I got Pryor at about a 60% shot to leave after this year.

And regardless of whether or not he leaves after this year or next, he ain't going anywhere near the second round. Matt Jones went top 15 as a WR. Pryor goes top 10 for sure, prolly top 5. And prolly after this year. You can lock that up.


I love sarcasm. :dead:


SD:

Yeah ain't it the truth :tool:
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby Loo » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:08 pm

Sorry SD, I think having the best OL in the NFL and a fantastic supporting cast is a bigger indicator of success than how willing he was to throw footballs in a parking lot or how he decided to come out of college a year early (as his ADVISORS advised him too after showing how high he was projected to go), as you suggest.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:35 pm

Loo wrote:Sorry SD, I think having the best OL in the NFL and a fantastic supporting cast is a bigger indicator of success than how willing he was to throw footballs in a parking lot or how he decided to come out of college a year early (as his ADVISORS advised him too after showing how high he was projected to go), as you suggest.


SD:

Its too bad your so sorry .

Its really no time to go thru life ignorant blind and stoopid.

The only time the Browns hoisted Championships and competed was when they had competence
at the QB position and while Sipe and Bernie came close , Ryan and Otto sealed the deal.

Quick riddle me this oh foolish one .

Where would the Vikings have been last year without Farve

The Saints without Manning

Indy without Peyton

or pray tell the Jets without their rookie Sanchez.

I can sure as hell tell ya where the Browns ended up with Lady Quinn and Da .

So goes your QB so goes your team , and as soon as you holier than though
Jackasses with your little pet ideas to the contrary buy into the real gospel then we can talk.


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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:59 pm

Terrelle Pryor is not going pro this year. Carve it in stone. Not. A. Chance.

Too much still to learn to leave early.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:05 pm

Hikohadon wrote:Damn, I'll take that bet. Where do I sign?


I'm with Rich on this one. Pryor goes Top 5, Top 10 on athletic potential alone. No way a guy with his physical gifts doesn't get snapped up early.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby FUDU » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:10 pm

I'm with CDT, JT convinces TP to stay and repeat.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby Loo » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:13 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
Loo wrote:Sorry SD, I think having the best OL in the NFL and a fantastic supporting cast is a bigger indicator of success than how willing he was to throw footballs in a parking lot or how he decided to come out of college a year early (as his ADVISORS advised him too after showing how high he was projected to go), as you suggest.


SD:

Its too bad your so sorry .

Its really no time to go thru life ignorant blind and stoopid.

The only time the Browns hoisted Championships and competed was when they had competence
at the QB position and while Sipe and Bernie came close , Ryan and Otto sealed the deal.

Quick riddle me this oh foolish one .

Where would the Vikings have been last year without Farve

The Saints without Manning

Indy without Peyton

or pray tell the Jets without their rookie Sanchez.

I can sure as hell tell ya where the Browns ended up with Lady Quinn and Da .

So goes your QB so goes your team , and as soon as you holier than though
Jackasses with your little pet ideas to the contrary buy into the real gospel then we can talk.


SoulDawg


You're not addressing my point, you're not coming back with a counter argument--rather, you are turning to personal insults because you have nothing to bring to the table.

Here's my point for the third time--Sanchez would not be the QB he is right now without Greene and LT on the ground and that stellar offensive line (there an echo in here?). He would NOT be having the success he is right now if he was Cleveland's QB today.

Would he be doing OK? Yeah. Would he be light-years ahead of what he have now? Yeah.

Would he be having as much success he is right now in CLE? NO. There's just---no---way, and it's probably not even close. Do you think, with Sanchez, this is a playoff team or something? No, but we'd be on the right path.

Did I ever say a team doesn't need a great QB? Did I ever say the Browns wouldn't benefit 100% from a better QB? Did I ever say the QB position isn't the most important on the field? NO on all accounts. I really, honestly have absolutely no idea why you are going that route.

Also--I'm pretty sure Peyton plays in Indy, and Brees in NO. But I guess that's nitpicking.

Now that that's cleared up---I wouldn't take Pryor in the first OR second round. Nag on me all you'd like, I know he's a physical freak--but he has difficulties forcing throws past safeties now--what happens when he gets to the pros? Once he faces NFL corners and sees the kind of ground an NFL safety can cover, I'm not sure he'll ever be able to have success. I bet he goes in the first round once he comes out, but I'd be a little surprised if he was told to come out this year. Sure, he can run all day--but if he can't throw downfield and keeps floating balls, he'll be torn apart.

There's NO WAY he goes top 5 if he came out this year though. There's just no way. I think writers say 0%, 100% and "guarantee" too much because in my eyes, it's you putting your word on the line. So I'll give it a 1% chance he goes top 5.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:35 pm

[quote="Loo"][quote=

I wouldn't take Pryor in the first OR second round.

SD:

We're done then ,

I don't waste my time with clueless fuckin fools

Eat shit and die for wasting my Mutha Fuckin time :fu: :fu: :fu: :fu: :fu: :fu:
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby Loo » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:43 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
Loo wrote:[quote=

I wouldn't take Pryor in the first OR second round.

SD:

We're done then ,

I don't waste my time with clueless fuckin fools

Eat shit and die for wasting my Mutha Fuckin time :fu: :fu: :fu: :fu: :fu: :fu:


That's just my opinion on one player. I do not believe he will have success in the NFL (at this point) to be taken that high in the draft. He still floats passes from time to time--you can't do that in the NFL. You just can't. Sooner or later EVERY QB--including Vick--has to beat an NFL defense with his arm. Will he be taken in the first round? Yes. No doubt about it he'll be gone within the top 30 or so picks. Would I agree with the Browns taking him within the top 40? Honestly, at this point, no, I wouldn't.

You still didn't respond to my point on Sanchez not being as successful in CLE, by the way. You picked out one single line that wasn't even on topic for what we were talking about and then came in with more insults and profanity. You're still not addressing the main issue. I am, however, very satisfied that I can get under your skin so easily.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:45 pm

SoulDawg74 wrote:
Loo wrote:Sorry SD, I think having the best OL in the NFL and a fantastic supporting cast is a bigger indicator of success than how willing he was to throw footballs in a parking lot or how he decided to come out of college a year early (as his ADVISORS advised him too after showing how high he was projected to go), as you suggest.


SD:

Its too bad your so sorry .

Its really no time to go thru life ignorant blind and stoopid.

The only time the Browns hoisted Championships and competed was when they had competence
at the QB position and while Sipe and Bernie came close , Ryan and Otto sealed the deal.

Quick riddle me this oh foolish one .

Where would the Vikings have been last year without Farve

The Saints without Manning

Indy without Peyton

or pray tell the Jets without their rookie Sanchez.

I can sure as hell tell ya where the Browns ended up with Lady Quinn and Da .

So goes your QB so goes your team , and as soon as you holier than though
Jackasses with your little pet ideas to the contrary buy into the real gospel then we can talk.


SoulDawg


Oh for fuck sake, dude. If we all promise to agree with you that Peyton Manning and Brett Farve are good, and DA and Quinn suck, do you promise to stop bringing it up?

Really, what the hell is your point? That good teams need a good QB? Really? Thanks for that wonderful insight. I'm sure Loo thanks you too. We are all indebted to your crack analysis that "good QBs are good".
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby aoxo1 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:14 pm

I would bet even money that the Saints without Manning might win the Super Bowl.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby jb » Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:22 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Damn, I'll take that bet. Where do I sign?


I'm with Rich on this one. Pryor goes Top 5, Top 10 on athletic potential alone. No way a guy with his physical gifts doesn't get snapped up early.



Yeah, and just to give the back n forth w/ SD a break I also see alot of Randall in this kid. Good cll.

i just think Clveland would be a terrible fit for him in so many ways.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:30 pm

jb wrote:
hermanfontenot wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Damn, I'll take that bet. Where do I sign?


I'm with Rich on this one. Pryor goes Top 5, Top 10 on athletic potential alone. No way a guy with his physical gifts doesn't get snapped up early.



Yeah, and just to give the back n forth w/ SD a break I also see alot of Randall in this kid. Good cll.

i just think Clveland would be a terrible fit for him in so many ways.



OK

Thats a take at least which may have some valididty

Now elaborate as to why he's not a good fit and we can discuss.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:05 pm

jb wrote:
hermanfontenot wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Damn, I'll take that bet. Where do I sign?


I'm with Rich on this one. Pryor goes Top 5, Top 10 on athletic potential alone. No way a guy with his physical gifts doesn't get snapped up early.



Yeah, and just to give the back n forth w/ SD a break I also see alot of Randall in this kid. Good cll.

i just think Clveland would be a terrible fit for him in so many ways.



OK

Thats a take at least which may have some valididty

Now elaborate as to why he's not a good fit and we can discuss.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet? Or Pryor?

Unread postby aoxo1 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:11 pm

Double post 95 minutes apart. World record.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet? Or Pryor?

Unread postby Ziner » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:21 pm

aoxo1 wrote:Double post 95 minutes apart. World record.


:lmfao: :lmfao:

SD can take an annoying mistake and turn it in to an art form

Edit: Can it still be a mistake? Maybe he does it for our amusement.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:08 am

hermanfontenot wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Damn, I'll take that bet. Where do I sign?


I'm with Rich on this one. Pryor goes Top 5, Top 10 on athletic potential alone. No way a guy with his physical gifts doesn't get snapped up early.


Once again, where do I sign?

Matt Jones got drafted as a WR. Pryor doesn't want to be drafted as such. He wants to be drafted as a QB. So he'll stay another year to build up his QB cred.

I could be wrong. I was shocked when Tebow went 1st round. But Team X would have to be fuckin' retarded to draft Pryor as a QB in the Top 10 in 2011.

So please, let's talk specifics. What are you gonna give me when Pryor isn't drafted Top 10 in the 2011 NFL draft? I will certainly reciprocate.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet? Or Pryor?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:35 am

I would much prefer taking a flyer on Pryor (yes, I did that on purpose) than drafting either Locker or Mallet. The only NFL ready QB of the bunch is Luck. The other 3 aren't even close, but TP has soooooooooo much potential at multiple positions (regardless of what he says) that if he were to declare and we miss out on Luck (damn you Buffalo) then I would be really tempted to grab him.

Some things to consider
1) Most likely, the new CBA will mandate a rookie wage scale. How does this change the strategy of drafting a QB in the first round? Does that make drafting a guy like Pryor less risky?
2) What makes everyone think that Luck will declare after this season?
3) Mallet = Dan McGuire
4) Locker = A taller version of Eric Crouch
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:45 am

Hikohadon wrote:
hermanfontenot wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Damn, I'll take that bet. Where do I sign?


I'm with Rich on this one. Pryor goes Top 5, Top 10 on athletic potential alone. No way a guy with his physical gifts doesn't get snapped up early.


Once again, where do I sign?

Matt Jones got drafted as a WR. Pryor doesn't want to be drafted as such. He wants to be drafted as a QB. So he'll stay another year to build up his QB cred.

I could be wrong. I was shocked when Tebow went 1st round. But Team X would have to be fuckin' retarded to draft Pryor as a QB in the Top 10 in 2011.

So please, let's talk specifics. What are you gonna give me when Pryor isn't drafted Top 10 in the 2011 NFL draft? I will certainly reciprocate.


I'm with you here.

As we sit here in late September 2010.

Again, Passing the football is BY FAR the most important thing for an NFL QB. Sure, the games changed, it is now a requirement to be able to move in the pocket. And some successful formations and schemes are bourne from a mobile QB and on and on....

But, just as Vince Young is unable to make NFL ballers look like 8th graders as he did collegians, by running past them, neither will Pryor. His success will be determined by how he throws the ball. Period.

Not sure how anyone has seen enough efficiency - nearly enough efficiency to declare he'll go top five.

He's a fantastic athlete, which gets him drafted. He needs to be a fantastic QB - which means an excellent passer, to get drafted top five.

Maybe in the future, no way in hell right now.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet? Or Pryor?

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:13 am

mattvan1 wrote:1) Most likely, the new CBA will mandate a rookie wage scale. How does this change the strategy of drafting a QB in the first round? Does that make drafting a guy like Pryor less risky?

Yes, it makes him less risky, but it also makes him less likely to come out after this season. With salary slotting, there's less risk to Pryor to stay another year, especially if people are projecting him as an NFL WR/Wildcat guy. I think he'll be convinced to stay one more year to up his QB stock, which I don't think is still that high (rightfully so).

mattvan1 wrote:2) What makes everyone think that Luck will declare after this season?

I don't think he will - for the same reason. Although if he's assured of being drafted #1 overall, I guess there's not much reason to return and possibly Locker yourself (lower your own draft stock).
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet? Or Pryor?

Unread postby gameface » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:58 pm

1. Regarding Sanchez, if you don't take him because he'd fail in Cleveland, then who do you take? What college QB is so bulletproof that he's be guaranteed to succeed on a poor team. Hell, what free agent QB?

But, if you watched him play last year, you could see he had the arm and the fortitude. This year he's getting the brain and the experience. We could have had him at 5, instead we traded out for a bunch of special teamers and a freaking center. Then cocked up the three second rounders we had like Mangini and Kokinis were drunk and retarded.

Eventually, bad teams need to gamble on a franchise QB. If you miss, you eventually have to try again. The exception being finding a Brady low down, but that's like counting on hitting the Lotto in order to pay the phone bill.

2. There is no flipping way in this world that Pryor goes top 5, unless he suddenly demonstrates the ability to fly. He'll be a Tebow type pick, taken as a developmental player late in the first or early in the second by a team with an established QB.

3. I hope to hell this isn't one of those Couch/McNabb/Smith/Culpepper/McNown years where there's no consensus and the draft dictates who goes where. Unless we have the very first pick and our choice, but that won't be a happy situation in that we're going to get rolled for the next 14 weeks.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet? Or Pryor?

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:11 pm

gameface wrote:1. Regarding Sanchez, if you don't take him because he'd fail in Cleveland, then who do you take? What college QB is so bulletproof that he's be guaranteed to succeed on a poor team. Hell, what free agent QB?

But, if you watched him play last year, you could see he had the arm and the fortitude. This year he's getting the brain and the experience. We could have had him at 5, instead we traded out for a bunch of special teamers and a freaking center. Then cocked up the three second rounders we had like Mangini and Kokinis were drunk and retarded.

Eventually, bad teams need to gamble on a franchise QB. If you miss, you eventually have to try again. The exception being finding a Brady low down, but that's like counting on hitting the Lotto in order to pay the phone bill.

2. There is no flipping way in this world that Pryor goes top 5, unless he suddenly demonstrates the ability to fly. He'll be a Tebow type pick, taken as a developmental player late in the first or early in the second by a team with an established QB.

3. I hope to hell this isn't one of those Couch/McNabb/Smith/Culpepper/McNown years where there's no consensus and the draft dictates who goes where. Unless we have the very first pick and our choice, but that won't be a happy situation in that we're going to get rolled for the next 14 weeks.


RE: Pryor - No he wont, he will eventually be regarded similar to Vince Young/Mike Vick, not Tebow.

And don't disregard or fail to factor in the recent success of Vick and Young 2.0, NFL is a copy cat league.

Tressel had the team electronically timed in the 40 this offseason....who do you think had the fastest time?

Saine? Timed in at 4.41 IIRC.

Pryor? Who tressel said himself he expected to maybe break a 4.6?

4.32. Fastest player on the team. At a LEGIT 6'6" 240lbs (before you shake your head, no other player timed under 4.4, this isn't the Florida 40 board we are talking about)

What will that look like at the combine? Probably higher, but the Saine time sounds right on for what I would expect to see at the combine so I don't expect much of a difference.

If Pryor continues to progress this season, and has A)undefeated NC season and leaves or B) Continues to develop in a 4th Year, and runs say, a 4.4 flat, you can bet your sweet ass he isn't going to make it out of the top 10.

Please understand that I am NOT predicting Pro success, I'm predicting NFL admin-level reactions during the combine season and on draft day.
Last edited by JCoz on Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:15 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
hermanfontenot wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:Damn, I'll take that bet. Where do I sign?


I'm with Rich on this one. Pryor goes Top 5, Top 10 on athletic potential alone. No way a guy with his physical gifts doesn't get snapped up early.


Once again, where do I sign?

Matt Jones got drafted as a WR. Pryor doesn't want to be drafted as such. He wants to be drafted as a QB. So he'll stay another year to build up his QB cred.

I could be wrong. I was shocked when Tebow went 1st round. But Team X would have to be fuckin' retarded to draft Pryor as a QB in the Top 10 in 2011.

So please, let's talk specifics. What are you gonna give me when Pryor isn't drafted Top 10 in the 2011 NFL draft? I will certainly reciprocate.


Let's lay some ground rules about injuries and such, I will certainly take this bet.

What is your thoughts on stake? Striaght cash is kind of boring but whatevs. If the other stuff gets ironed out I have at the minimum one 50 spot/the equivalent to put on it.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:41 pm

JCoz wrote: whatevs.


Seriously?
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet? Or Pryor?

Unread postby Loo » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:53 pm

gameface wrote:1. Regarding Sanchez, if you don't take him because he'd fail in Cleveland, then who do you take? What college QB is so bulletproof that he's be guaranteed to succeed on a poor team. Hell, what free agent QB?

But, if you watched him play last year, you could see he had the arm and the fortitude. This year he's getting the brain and the experience. We could have had him at 5, instead we traded out for a bunch of special teamers and a freaking center. Then cocked up the three second rounders we had like Mangini and Kokinis were drunk and retarded.

Eventually, bad teams need to gamble on a franchise QB. If you miss, you eventually have to try again. The exception being finding a Brady low down, but that's like counting on hitting the Lotto in order to pay the phone bill.

2. There is no flipping way in this world that Pryor goes top 5, unless he suddenly demonstrates the ability to fly. He'll be a Tebow type pick, taken as a developmental player late in the first or early in the second by a team with an established QB.

3. I hope to hell this isn't one of those Couch/McNabb/Smith/Culpepper/McNown years where there's no consensus and the draft dictates who goes where. Unless we have the very first pick and our choice, but that won't be a happy situation in that we're going to get rolled for the next 14 weeks.


I never said I wouldn't have taken Sanchez at 5. I'd be very happy with Mallet in this year's draft inside the top 5.

My only point--I keep having to repeating myself--is that Sanchez wouldn't be as good, today, as he is in NY.

SD somehow turned that into me saying "I would never have drafted Sanchez, I think all QB's are unimportant and the Colts would still be good without Peyton."
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:54 pm

Ziner wrote:
JCoz wrote: whatevs.


Seriously?


I guess ......I don't have any knowledge of some famous person that goes back to, guess you'll have to explain why that's worthy of a quote and question?
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet?

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:14 pm

JCoz wrote:
Ziner wrote:
JCoz wrote: whatevs.


Seriously?


I guess ......I don't have any knowledge of some famous person that goes back to, guess you'll have to explain why that's worthy of a quote and question?


Just giving you a hard time. Haven't heard that since walking by the girls lunch table in 7th grade ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet? Or Pryor?

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:51 pm

Loo wrote: I'd be very happy with Mallet in this year's draft inside the top 5.


After 3 years, I don't think you would still be very happy. Sorry Loo, the guy has "statue with a long release and poor mechnics" written all over him.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet? Or Pryor?

Unread postby gameface » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:11 pm

JCoz wrote:
RE: Pryor - No he wont, he will eventually be regarded similar to Vince Young/Mike Vick, not Tebow.

And don't disregard or fail to factor in the recent success of Vick and Young 2.0, NFL is a copy cat league.

Tressel had the team electronically timed in the 40 this offseason....who do you think had the fastest time?

Saine? Timed in at 4.41 IIRC.

Pryor? Who tressel said himself he expected to maybe break a 4.6?

4.32. Fastest player on the team. At a LEGIT 6'6" 240lbs (before you shake your head, no other player timed under 4.4, this isn't the Florida 40 board we are talking about)

What will that look like at the combine? Probably higher, but the Saine time sounds right on for what I would expect to see at the combine so I don't expect much of a difference.

If Pryor continues to progress this season, and has A)undefeated NC season and leaves or B) Continues to develop in a 4th Year, and runs say, a 4.4 flat, you can bet your sweet ass he isn't going to make it out of the top 10.

Please understand that I am NOT predicting Pro success, I'm predicting NFL admin-level reactions during the combine season and on draft day.


Well, IF all those things happen, then I'll concede top 10, but I still wouldn't bet top 5. Reason being teams in the top 5 are f'd up and need major help. Every year there's a number of QB prospects, and a few will look more finished and ready to go than Pryor. And not every team in the top 5 is going to be shopping for a QB. If you're a bad team with a top 5, you're looking for immediate impact. Unless Pryor looks ready to step in and play without a lot of refining, then he's not good value. Rookie cap or not, top 5 picks are precious. Teams are going to look for sure things. I get the Vince Young/Mike Vick analogy, but both took a while to come around. And you can't discount that NFL types still dig the pocket passer in general. Young and Vick on one side, and JaMarcus Russell on the other.

Speed is cool, but not really so relevent for QBs.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet? Or Pryor?

Unread postby aoxo1 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:28 pm

JaMarcus Russell is/was a pocket passer.
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Re: Locker, Luck, or Mallet? Or Pryor?

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:30 pm

gameface wrote:
JCoz wrote:
RE: Pryor - No he wont, he will eventually be regarded similar to Vince Young/Mike Vick, not Tebow.

And don't disregard or fail to factor in the recent success of Vick and Young 2.0, NFL is a copy cat league.

Tressel had the team electronically timed in the 40 this offseason....who do you think had the fastest time?

Saine? Timed in at 4.41 IIRC.

Pryor? Who tressel said himself he expected to maybe break a 4.6?

4.32. Fastest player on the team. At a LEGIT 6'6" 240lbs (before you shake your head, no other player timed under 4.4, this isn't the Florida 40 board we are talking about)

What will that look like at the combine? Probably higher, but the Saine time sounds right on for what I would expect to see at the combine so I don't expect much of a difference.

If Pryor continues to progress this season, and has A)undefeated NC season and leaves or B) Continues to develop in a 4th Year, and runs say, a 4.4 flat, you can bet your sweet ass he isn't going to make it out of the top 10.

Please understand that I am NOT predicting Pro success, I'm predicting NFL admin-level reactions during the combine season and on draft day.


Well, IF all those things happen, then I'll concede top 10, but I still wouldn't bet top 5. Reason being teams in the top 5 are f'd up and need major help. Every year there's a number of QB prospects, and a few will look more finished and ready to go than Pryor. And not every team in the top 5 is going to be shopping for a QB. If you're a bad team with a top 5, you're looking for immediate impact. Unless Pryor looks ready to step in and play without a lot of refining, then he's not good value. Rookie cap or not, top 5 picks are precious. Teams are going to look for sure things. I get the Vince Young/Mike Vick analogy, but both took a while to come around. And you can't discount that NFL types still dig the pocket passer in general. Young and Vick on one side, and JaMarcus Russell on the other.

Speed is cool, but not really so relevent for QBs.


They know right now his combine numbers will be off the charts. Much smaller package than being able to pass the ball.

As far as the Vick and Young analogies, their successes and or turn arounds in the NFL are predicated on how they PASS the football. Vick has been accurate this year, not faster than when he stunk it up. Do you think the Eagles would rather have the athlete with the speed and quickness when he entered the league, or the accuracy he's displayed this year passing the ball? And, as I mentioned earlier, Vince Young isn't runnin' away from guys at this level like they are 7th graders, and neither will Pryor - even at his speed. He throws the ball well, and makes good decisions he'll keep his job, if he doesn't he'll be on the bench again. Theese guy's ability to move in the pocket is a modern prerequisite and can foster some additional aspects of play, but make no mistake about it, passing the football is driving the NFL horse.

Again, his passing skills could greatly improve, but as we sit here today, he's not close.
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