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It came to me last night ...

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It came to me last night ...

Unread postby swerb » Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:47 pm

Browns trade #3 to Miami for #9, #40, and #71 (Miami has two 2nd rd picks)

1. Oak - QB JaMarcus Russell, LSU
*-2. Atl - WR Calvin Johnson, Ga Tech
*-3. Mia - QB Brady Quinn, ND
4. TB - DT Abomi Okoye, Louisville
5. Ariz - OT Joe Thomas, Wisconsin
6. Was - DE Gaines Adams, Clemson
7. Min - RB Adrian Peterson, Oklahoma
*-8. Det - DT Alan Branch, Michigan
*-9. Cle - OT Levi Brown, Penn State

36. Cle - OG Arron Sears, Tennessee
40. Cle - CB Eric Wright, UNLV
67. Cle - DE Quentin Moses, Georgia (Mebane? Pitcock?)
71. Cle - QB Troy Smith, Ohio State
103. Cle - RB Darius Walker, Notre Dame
140. Cle - CB Tarrell Brown, Texas
178. Cle - DE Jay Richardson, Ohio State
Last edited by swerb on Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postby Guest » Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:51 pm

I like it
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Unread postby yogi » Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:15 pm

I'd throw up!
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Unread postby swede » Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:12 pm

I don´t think they go OL again at 36. More probable that they pick up a guard in the fourth or fifth, like Beekman or Wrotto.

Also, if this plays out like that, I think they pick up a qb earlier. Kolb or Trent Edwards.

Also think that all the oil-money that Norway has, is actually ours. But that´s another story.
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No way in hell

Unread postby diminishingskills » Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:29 pm

The Eric Wright pick at 40, that is.

I can buy your unnamed source predicting a trade down to grab another Brown from Penn State, and getting another pick or two in the process.

But there is no way in H-E-double hockey sticks that Savage takes a guy with major character concerns in the second round. Not after Pac-Man got Pac-Manned and the dude for the Bengals got shelved for half a season.

If I had to suggest one trend for this year's draft, it's that guys with any character concerns will slide -- big time -- and the ones that carry huge red flags will not have ringing phones until Sunday, if at all.

I also can't buy the two OL in the first two rounds. I think it's technically illegal for the Browns to do that (at least, their draft strategy over the years suggests as much).
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Unread postby wmurphyhh » Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:03 pm

If I had to suggest one trend for this year's draft, it's that guys with any character concerns will slide -- big time -- and the ones that carry huge red flags will not have ringing phones until Sunday, if at all.


Gotta agree on that one. Some guys are going to slip this year due to Goodell's new stance on player conduct. I like what he did with Pac Man. Stern and the NBA are embracing the 'hip hop' image with the All Star this past year in Vegas. Goodell is working with the union to keep the NFL marketing machine in full swing. Come on...what league can make the unveiling of the schedule a 2 hour show on two different networks at the same time (ESPN & NFL Network) ? Guys like Easy E and Tank Tyler are going to slip a round or two. Remember that Goodell stated in his policy that teams could also be punished - losing drafts picks.

Wouldn't that be a slap in the face to have a guy like Wright get suspended for a year and be penalized by being stripped of another pick ? That being said, I'm not above taking a flyer on a character player if we have multiple picks and can get a bargain in the 3rd round. Hell, these players are 21 year olds having the world given to them. All of us have done dumbass things when we were younger. Some of us turned out all right.

Love the trade down idea and drafting Brown. Come back with Sears and the line is set for a few years. Then we can all be happy when Opie goes for the sexy pick next year.

BTW, great article by Benjamin Cox. He hit the nail on the top of the head. Please don't trade up for JMR. Do you think JMR would put on a wedding dress for a photo shoot with Opie ala Ricky and Ditka ?
Isn't it time something good happens in this town ?
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Re: It came to me last night ...

Unread postby jb » Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:46 am

Swerb wrote:Browns trade #3 to Miami for #9, #40, and #71 (Miami has two 2nd rd picks)

1. Oak - QB JaMarcus Russell, LSU
*-2. Atl - WR Calvin Johnson, Ga Tech
*-3. Mia - QB Brady Quinn, ND
4. TB - DT Abomi Okoye, Louisville
5. Ariz - OT Joe Thomas, Wisconsin
6. Was - DE Gaines Adams, Clemson
7. Min - RB Adrian Peterson, Oklahoma
*-8. Det - DT Alan Branch, Michigan
*-9. Cle - OT Levi Brown, Penn State

36. Cle - OG Arron Sears, Tennessee
40. Cle - CB Eric Wright, UNLV
67. Cle - DE Quentin Moses, Georgia (Mebane? Pitcock?)
71. Cle - QB Troy Smith, Ohio State
103. Cle - RB Darius Walker, Notre Dame
140. Cle - CB Tarrell Brown, Texas
178. Cle - DE Jay Richardson, Ohio State


Rich, this may be he most un-sexy mock draft ever, and one of the better ones. Gimme Browns & Sears over one Joe T any day, which is basically what you are doing here. We'll still lick moose balls on O with our QB's, so I giess we defer that improvement, and we'll still draft in the top 8. But odds are the OL is finally fixed and the DB's could be set as well. Next couple years are all about getting RB and a QB, and one stud DE. But the shoping list sure shrinks to "doable".

No to Darius Walker, please. No long shot skilled position fliers. Troy is a heart pick, tho,, and you can bet the dumbass talk show callers will be screaming for him to start by game 5. :? :-? :???:

One question - are the D linemen yer proposing all the 3 - 4 variety? I see for example you have Quinn P as a "?". No way that kid is anything but a pure 4 - 3 DT .

BTW - When the league is cracking down on off the field shit and the rest of the league zigs, that is EXACTLY when you zag! Mad value and most of these guys actually get their shot together. Look at Mother Cookoo. He just about comitted hands on murder.

We want Eazy!
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Unread postby furls » Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:16 am

This would be the most "unsexy" draft ever, but I think in the long run it would do more to improve this team than any one player they could get this year. This draft would set the Browns on the O-Line for 7 years (with minimal maintenance). Then it would actually make sense to go BPA later.
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Unread postby swerb » Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:17 am

Thats the reason I have Moses in that slot. I also have Pitcock and Mebane on the board for that pick, but neither appear to be ideal fits for the 3-4. I do think that it is feasible that Pitcock could learn to play DE in the 3-4, NT ... no way.

And for the record, I like Darius Walker as a NFL RB. I think the signing of 8 Ball confirmed to all of us what type of RB Phil wants for this team, and Walker is in the same mold.

To me, of all the RBs being bandied about as 2nd-6th rd guys, he makes the most sense, appears the most likely to end up a Brown.
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Zagging?

Unread postby diminishingskills » Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:50 am

BTW - When the league is cracking down on off the field shit and the rest of the league zigs, that is EXACTLY when you zag! Mad value and most of these guys actually get their shot together.

We couldn't agree more.

Signed,

Lawrence Phillips, Odell Thurman, Koren Robinson, Maurice Clarett, Winston Justice, and Marcus Vick

WAR Adrian McPherson lining up behind center, not right guard. (http://rangelife.typepad.com/rangelife/images/saints.jpeg)

* * *

It's not just about blowing a draft pick anymore. And it's not just about drafting a guy who becomes a shit stain on your organization's laundry. The NFL has said that they will take other sanctions against teams whose players are involved in criminal activity -- possibly including the loss of future draft picks. It's one thing to draft Wright in the second round. It would be bad enough to blow a pick on a guy who doesn't pan out because he's counting the Ecstasy pills in his crib. It's worse if that pick also costs you, say, another second round pick in a future draft, plus a fine.

The NFL's message is clear: they are not going to tolerate the criminal element any more. Teams who zag against that message do so at their own peril.
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Re: Zagging?

Unread postby jb » Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:57 pm

DiminishingSkills wrote:BTW - When the league is cracking down on off the field shit and the rest of the league zigs, that is EXACTLY when you zag! Mad value and most of these guys actually get their shot together.

We couldn't agree more.

Signed,

Lawrence Phillips, Odell Thurman, Koren Robinson, Maurice Clarett, Winston Justice, and Marcus Vick

WAR Adrian McPherson lining up behind center, not right guard. (http://rangelife.typepad.com/rangelife/images/saints.jpeg)

* * *

It's not just about blowing a draft pick anymore. And it's not just about drafting a guy who becomes a shit stain on your organization's laundry. The NFL has said that they will take other sanctions against teams whose players are involved in criminal activity -- possibly including the loss of future draft picks. It's one thing to draft Wright in the second round. It would be bad enough to blow a pick on a guy who doesn't pan out because he's counting the Ecstasy pills in his crib. It's worse if that pick also costs you, say, another second round pick in a future draft, plus a fine.

The NFL's message is clear: they are not going to tolerate the criminal element any more. Teams who zag against that message do so at their own peril.


Glad yer in agreement to throw us away on draft day,

Sincerely,

Dan Marino, Randy Moss, Laveraneous Coles


It's not all that bad to line up over the guard as a rookie.

Sincerely,

John Elway

"Character Counts."
- Courtney Brown (or he would have said so if he ever spoke)

DS, everyone is now gonna be intimidated into passing on anyone not squeakey clean, which is precisely why you zag in this copy cat league. Just as everyone was willing to ignore everything when Randy Moss piad huge rewards, now after PacMan everyone is going to over react, and over compensate the other way. That's how the pendulum is.

I'd pass on the next Christian Peter or Lawrence Phillips, as I would have before, but single time mistakes for things 20 years olds do? C'mon dawg. It's football, not the seminary. Has Eazy been busted with anything since he left SC, or just branded forever because he was a kid who had X in the LA Club scene in college and got involved w/ some he said , she said alagations, ala Duke LAX w/ out the politically hungry prosecutor and him not being a rich, white target?

If Eazy has been clean since SC, you take him and you get a steal. Unless he's some kind of addict, he's smart enough to be done with X.
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Unread postby furls » Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:15 pm

I whole heartedly disagree. This whole, give em a pass thing, works if you want to build the Bengals. How smart does the Randy Moss thing look now. As I look back, it becomes more and more apparent that the Cris Carter was as responsible for Moss's success as Moss himself, but that is a topic for another thread. You build teams with CHARACTER and TALENT.

How many times have we seen it before, players become charicatures of themselves in college once you give them millions. Guys who have a tendency to struggle to stay in shape, Russell, get fat; guys who have a tendency to get in trouble with the law get in big trouble with the law.
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Unread postby diminishingskills » Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:04 pm

Glad yer in agreement to throw us away on draft day, Sincerely, Dan Marino, Randy Moss, Laveraneous Coles

My scoreboard has that as one bad example and two irrelevant ones. Moss has proven to be a quitter and a sulker; his nickname should be Melanoma, 'cause he's definitely a cancer. Marino slipped in the draft because (a) it was a QB-heavy draft and (b) he had what was perceived as a disappointing senior season at Pitt. Coles underpaid for some stuff -- big frigging deal. Same shit as goes on at every other Division I school; he just happened to get caught and/or was dumb enough not to have some sugar daddy "booster" provide it gratis.

There is definitely a distinction between youthful dumbassery (which is where I'd put Coles) and more serious, "this guy has problems we can't afford to solve" issues (i.e., guys with assault/battery/rape level charges). I don't think we're that far apart -- you said that you wouldn't have touched a guy like Phillips either.

But the whole point -- which you've pretty much agreed to -- is that guys with character concerns are going to drop, big time, on draft day; accordingly, Wright may well be there a round or two later than originally planned.

"Character Counts."
- Courtney Brown (or he would have said so if he ever spoke)


Had Courtney said those words, he would have sprained his lip and been forced to go on IR.
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Re: It came to me last night ...

Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:18 pm

Swerb wrote:Browns trade #3 to Miami for #9, #40, and #71 (Miami has two 2nd rd picks)

1. Oak - QB JaMarcus Russell, LSU
*-2. Atl - WR Calvin Johnson, Ga Tech
*-3. Mia - QB Brady Quinn, ND
4. TB - DT Abomi Okoye, Louisville
5. Ariz - OT Joe Thomas, Wisconsin
6. Was - DE Gaines Adams, Clemson
7. Min - RB Adrian Peterson, Oklahoma
*-8. Det - DT Alan Branch, Michigan
*-9. Cle - OT Levi Brown, Penn State

36. Cle - OG Arron Sears, Tennessee
40. Cle - CB Eric Wright, UNLV
67. Cle - DE Quentin Moses, Georgia (Mebane? Pitcock?)
71. Cle - QB Troy Smith, Ohio State
103. Cle - RB Darius Walker, Notre Dame
140. Cle - CB Tarrell Brown, Texas
178. Cle - DE Jay Richardson, Ohio State


I had thought Miami would be a logical trade partner too and I like all the picks outside of Troy Smith - I just don't think he'll work well in the NFL and I'd suppose we'd get him in the hopes he can be groomed as a future starter.

I like Brown, though I think it's too bad that Staley is likely gone at the top of the 2nd.

Raiders are apparently leaning more toward Johnson now. That could leave both Russell and Quinn by the time we pick, making the pick more valuable. It's no secret that a lot of teams like Russell.
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Unread postby mistero » Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:55 pm

If Russell is available I don't think a team could come up with a trade down package that would sway Savage. He's coming to Cleveland.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:31 pm

mistero wrote:If Russell is available I don't think a team could come up with a trade down package that would sway Savage. He's coming to Cleveland.


I hope not. Russell has got some great tools and could be fantastic, but our line has been like swiss cheese for years. I'm not into paying big bucks to a QB again only to have the OL stink, allowing the QB be beaten to a pulp.
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Unread postby yogi » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:16 am

I really don't think Phil will "trade" away one of the QBs.

If Brady becomes "ALL- whatever", Phil gets abused.
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Unread postby jb » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:01 pm

DiminishingSkills wrote:Glad yer in agreement to throw us away on draft day, Sincerely, Dan Marino, Randy Moss, Laveraneous Coles

My scoreboard has that as one bad example and two irrelevant ones. Moss has proven to be a quitter and a sulker; his nickname should be Melanoma, 'cause he's definitely a cancer. Marino slipped in the draft because (a) it was a QB-heavy draft and (b) he had what was perceived as a disappointing senior season at Pitt. Coles underpaid for some stuff -- big frigging deal. Same shit as goes on at every other Division I school; he just happened to get caught and/or was dumb enough not to have some sugar daddy "booster" provide it gratis.

There is definitely a distinction between youthful dumbassery (which is where I'd put Coles) and more serious, "this guy has problems we can't afford to solve" issues (i.e., guys with assault/battery/rape level charges). I don't think we're that far apart -- you said that you wouldn't have touched a guy like Phillips either.

But the whole point -- which you've pretty much agreed to -- is that guys with character concerns are going to drop, big time, on draft day; accordingly, Wright may well be there a round or two later than originally planned.

"Character Counts."
- Courtney Brown (or he would have said so if he ever spoke)


Had Courtney said those words, he would have sprained his lip and been forced to go on IR.


I wholeheartedly agree with your distinction, and that puts us on the same page, but your scoreboard is fucked. I'm just sayin'.

Dude, Randy Moss was the most dominant single player in the NFL for a period of about 3 - 4 seasons. Define him by his Minnesota years with Carter, not what he's doing now. It's the same w/ TO and his prime 9er seasons vs the clusterfuck he is now.

Dan Marino dropped for cocaine rumors my friend. Ugly, probably unfounded, and unfounded per Dan, but true.

Coles got thrown off FLORIDA STATE in the 1990's. Think about how bad you had to be for that to happen; think about how gansta that program was in prime.

Hey, I don't want to draft a woman beater and shit, but if it is a situation like Coles? That's EXACTLY what NFL teams will overreact and pass on, and that's who I'd take a mid round chance on.

I put youthful experiementation with club drugs in that category.

I realize that YMMV and in this renewed prohibition era I am likely in the minority. You do realize that Josh Cribbs was convincted for dealing not insignificant amounts of weed, don't you?
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Unread postby furls » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:08 pm

Dude, Randy Moss was the most dominant single player in the NFL for a period of about 3 - 4 seasons. Define him by his Minnesota years with Carter, not what he's doing now. It's the same w/ TO and his prime 9er seasons vs the clusterfuck he is now.


A player that is great (with a hall of famer lined up across from him) for 3-4 years is not a great barometer. I would hope for more than 3-4 years of primetime followed by 5 years of cancerous meltdown out of my first rounders.
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Unread postby jb » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:21 pm

Furls wrote:
Dude, Randy Moss was the most dominant single player in the NFL for a period of about 3 - 4 seasons. Define him by his Minnesota years with Carter, not what he's doing now. It's the same w/ TO and his prime 9er seasons vs the clusterfuck he is now.


A player that is great (with a hall of famer lined up across from him) for 3-4 years is not a great barometer. I would hope for more than 3-4 years of primetime followed by 5 years of cancerous meltdown out of my first rounders.


I thought as a rule we Browns' fans worshipped at the alter of Bernie Kosar? I know that I do.

I'd take 4 absolutely dominant years out of a late slot first rounder, but that's just me. Again, YMMV.
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