Browns draft day plan from a good source ...

[swerb]

Take this for what it's worth. Good source, deep roots, been right on just about everything I've gotten from him.

Here's the email I just got:

The Browns plan is still to do everything in their power to get JaMarcus Russell at the top of the first round. The fallback position is a deal down to acquire 1-2 more first day picks and to select offensive tackle Levi Brown from Penn State.

[yogi]

looks like a lose-lose situation to me.

I called it a couple of weeks ago, that if the Ray-duhs pass on JR, we will trade picks with Detroit to get him.

Trading down and getting Levi Brown is also a snoozer and depressing. Not that he couldn't help us, but passing up a possible franchise QB or RB when we have the need for possibly the 2nd best OT (many think only marginably better than what will be available to us at #36), is blaah!

[consigliere]

Man, Pup will love and hate that news. Love the trade down option for Levi Brown, but hate the all out approach to get JaMarcus.

From this corner, I want A Pete or Quinn, and I don't want to trade down unless we get absolutely floored with an offer. I mean, trading down to get Levi Brown? Isn't he slotted somewhere in the teens? That's a HUGE drop. We better be getting multiple #1s and #2s for that AT LEAST.

[Guest]

Ryan Leaf.

Kyle Boller.

JaMarcus Russell.

Sorry...the last "physical phreak" that came out of college and was great was Elway...and it took him a long time to get to that point.

C'mon, Rai-duhs! Do something to help us and draft JMR.

[swede]

A player named Brown from Penn state ?!

Interesting. They just brought in Thomas for a visit. Smööökscreen ?

I wonder have far down they are thinking. Falcons at 8 maybe. I´d be fine with that. I think he´s really good. He could start out at RT and be an improvement over Tucker right of the bat.

I just hope they the don´t trade UP to get Russell. If they Raiders pass, I think they can just sit back and wait at three. No reason to trade up with Millen.

[dpdad]

I will be extremely pissed if the Browns trade up to get Russell. Come to think of it, I will be pissed if they take Russell at #3, period.

Trading down a few spots, picking up Levi Brown and a couple more first day picks goes down much easier with me.

[pup]

The Browns plan is still to do everything in their power to get JaMarcus Russell at the top of the first round. The fallback position is a deal down to acquire 1-2 more first day picks and to select offensive tackle Levi Brown from Penn State.

To quote the ever quotable Steve Buffum:

"No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no!"

[mistero]

Russell is the perfect fit for Cleveland. If it means tossing a bisquit to Detroit to move up 1 , I could live with it. I don't regret moving up to get Winslow, injuries aside the guy was absolutely worth it.

I have also heard that Levi Brown is going to be a better LT in the long run than Thomas based on his arm length,overall size. Not my analysis but I think Mike Mayock said that on NFL network.

[mattvan1]

Good source, deep roots, been right on just about everything I've gotten from him.

Lane?

I have also heard that Levi Brown is going to be a better LT in the long run than Thomas based on his arm length,overall size. Not my analysis but I think Mike Mayock said that on NFL network

I heard the same thing, different source. Road grader, drive blocker - not that good in space (zone scheme) but would be a good fit for the Browns so called "power running". Like him at around 12.

Edited to add that selecting JRuss would make me vomit.

[furls]

injuries aside the guy was absolutely worth it.

Injuries aside, that is like saying the Titanic is a nice boat, sinking aside. Injuries have defined the guys career. Good player sure, but he has only played .8 seasons in three years (he does not get full credit for last season because his knee was noticeably destroyed about 1/2 through it).

[jb]

I would infinitely prefer Levi Brown with pick 10 and extra picks on day one than I would Joe Thomas at 3. Why?

In the words of the pledge review scene in Animal House, "we need the dudes".

Levi is very close to Joe T.

I'd take a good prospect OLT at that slot for value, not pick 3 overall if his name ain't "munoz" or "boselli".

Salary cap space alone makes it a good deal.

If the Browns can come away with a 2 and a 3 , it is worth it. Those dudes will be the extra RB, CB or DLmen we need along with another OLman on day one.

Just please God, no more WR's or scratch & dent roookie QB prospects like Charlie & Luke. Just say "no" to Stanton. If Troy is there on day two, I'll all for taking a flyer on sentimentality and the long-shot the kid's heart will one day overcome.

[swerb]

[furls]

Here is my vow:

If the Browns trade up for J-Mark, I am done. I am quitting the Browns. Not sure if I will try to follow another NFL team or not, but I will quit the Browns. At that point we will be guaranteed another 3-4 years of sucktitude and a front office that will have proved that it has no idea what it is doing. I have tolerated a lot from the Browns in 8 years and this will be the one that does it for me. I will cancel my NFL Sunday Ticket (i live out of area and need it to see the pathetic Browns) on draft day if the pick up Russell.

Seriously, the guy was not even on the map until he shredded NDs defense. What a waste.

[swerb]

Come on Furls. Can't you picture the big fellas rifling lasers downfield to Braylon, Joe J, and Kellen through the biting lakefront wind? Throwing lead blocks for 8 Ball on outside running plays?

[jb]

Here is my vow:

If the Browns trade up for J-Mark, I am done. I am quitting the Browns. Not sure if I will try to follow another NFL team or not, but I will quit the Browns.

LMAO.

If you've made it THIS far, it's in yer DNA. You can't quit any more than MJ can return to normal. I mean GD Furls, if the picks and luck up to now haven't doomed us.... How could this be any worse than taking the precursor to Alan Branch over the greatest RB of this generation?

A sadistic part of me wants to see that train wreck happen just to watch everyone implode. It'll make the time I was the only person cheering the Winslow pick in Bunkers just to piss people off seem like a sideshow.

Then again, what if he's good? Wouldn't it be the ultimate pissa if everyone freaks out about JMR and he turns out to be The One? I don't believe it either, and he has the most bustability of any guy slated to go 1 overall of anyone I can ever recall since Jeff George.

[SoulDawg74]

Take this for what it's worth. Good source, deep roots, been right on just about everything I've gotten from him.

Here's the email I just got:

The Browns plan is still to do everything in their power to get JaMarcus Russell at the top of the first round. The fallback position is a deal down to acquire 1-2 more first day picks and to select offensive tackle Levi Brown from Penn State.

Russell is worth giving Al Davis next years first round pick ,
butt I'm not sure its enough to appease that Rapist when it comes to drfat day deals.

Russell is ours if Al takes Calvin ,
because Millen will be forced to take Quinn after we fork over our second round pick and allow him to get the QB for Martz he wants anyway.

SoulDawg

SoulDawg

[yogi]

It'll make the time I was the only person cheering the Winslow pick in Bunkers just to piss people off seem like a sideshow.

Not true.

I was cheering and got cut down looks from SOBO, Denn, YSU and swerb among others. JB you must have been on the other side of the room.

I'd have bought you a beer!

[Guest]

I'm in the same boat with you Furls. However, a bit different.
If they trade UP to get anyone, I'm done
They have so many holes to fill that they have zero business even considering thinking about it.

[swerb]

You guys aren't going anywhere, who are you kidding.

[Guest]

I'll do it!!!!

[Lebowski]

The Browns plan is still to do everything in their power to get JaMarcus Russell at the top of the first round. The fallback position is a deal down to acquire 1-2 more first day picks and to select offensive tackle Levi Brown from Penn State

Thanks for sharing, Swerb.

This makes me VERY happy. I could live with us trading up to get Russell, provided we aren't paying out the nose.

But I really like the fallback plan. A trade down, for this team, makes so much sense. And I love a trade down to the 12-18 postition and getting Brown. Pro Football Weekly's Draft Guide is the best, IMO, and they are very high on Brown. I have the hard copy, so I dont have a link, but paraphrasing, they mention that Brown, and not Thomas, could end up being the best OLT out of this class. They love his intensity and grit. Mention that he has that all important "mean" factor that O-lineman need, which is in stark contrast to the finese player Thomas is considered to be. Also, most importantly to me, they say that in interviews with D-lineman who have faced both, the universal response has been that they would rather face Thomas instead of Brown. That is a BIG deal to me, considering that these two guys played in the same conference and presumably faced these D-lineman multiple times.

A trade down that could net us an additional #2 or #3 and Levi Brown would be a coup by Savage.

[Dozen]

Sumtin could be brewing, check out this..............

Raiders Rumor Mill: Trade likely
Some things are certain in life. Trades in the NFL usually aren’t among them. But the Oakland Raiders are serious about making a trade and it is getting closer to fruition.
Full Story | Discuss

http://raiders.scout.com/

[RC]

I have highlight reel stuff of all 5 of the big guys (Thomas, Russell, Quinn, Johnson and Peterson) on my MySpace page at www.myspace.com/parkwood09 if anyone wants to check them out.

The more I watch old taped games of these guys the more I can see why Phil is smitten with JMR.

He's got a cannon for an arm
Good mobility
Played in a big boy conference (SEC) and excelled
Seems to have a good head on his shoulders (although I don't know the guy personally or anything so I could be wrong)

All I know is if the Browns are going to get a QB high he better be able to throw a football not only accurately but with the Lake Erie winds that accurate ball should be able to be thrown so hard it can go through a brick wall.

If Phil really likes him and it doesn't cost the Browns next year's 1st rounder I would seriously consider the trade.

Don't know a whole lot about Levi Brown other than talent wise he is considered close to Joe Thomas and some actually like Brown better.

My top 5 if we stayed at 3 would be:
Russell
Peterson
Johnson
Quinn
Thomas

[Guest]

I'm curious to know why people want to trade up to get Russell??????

[jb]

I'm curious to know why people want to trade up to get Russell??????

Great question.

I don't consider myself an amateur Mel Kiper anymore. I believe in my limitrations.

Word is (don't you miss him?) ... that Opie is in head over heels pussy-whipped "can-we-watch-a-romantic-comedy-while-I-rub-you-feet-and-you-blabber-on-and-on-about-your-day-and-people-I-don't-know" love with JMR. If this be the case, and Opie wants to bet the farm on this kid, then that's what we should do, and that's good enough for me. If this is "the guy" who Phil believe changes everything , then they should draft him and that's what I want.

If he shows up and goes Akili, then I don't give a rat's ass about JMR. It's Opie who needs to be set on a viking funeral pyre and pushed out to Lake Erie.

The point ? JMR is but one pick, one player transaction. He is a significant one, to be sure, but organizations can overcome single, isolated mistakes. What they can't overcome is a pattern of continued ineptitude where JMR would be a symptom rather than an exception. I have doubts about Phil; big ones. But overall I am undecided for another couple years. If he sells the farm for his one guy, it will go a long way towd us knowing if we have the right overall people in place, and that is what is most important here.

If JMR comes here, you can not find a point where he ends and Phil begins. That is how intertwined they will be to one another. The analysis ins't about JMR here, it is about Savage. Savvy?

[Guest]

If he is there at 3 I can accept it
But if we give up extra picks and move up, I can't.

[jb]

If he is there at 3 I can accept it
But if we give up extra picks and move up, I can't.

Personally? JMR carries with him more of a bust possibility thyan any semi-consesnsus # 1 overall except for Jeff George to me, including Ware. I'd put him up there w/ George.

But fight doc, I don't mater. Neither do you. Phil is the only one who does. And if Phil is convinced JMR is worth trading up for and paying the exhorbatant price it'll no doubt take, if he ain't all that, then we are fucked regardless of this one pick because Phil can't run a show that lands talent.

[furls]

This team must produce at least 3 quality starters in the next 2 drafts (coupled with solid FA periods) in order to compete for a playoff spot in 2009. Trading up for Russel would show a level of organizational incompetence that I did not think even the Browns were capable of.

For what it is worth, I am not a Russell fan either so that clearly biases my opinion. For years we have seen the Browns pass on character guys to draft guys with questionable character and/or work ethics. The fact that Russell showed up to the combine 15lbs overweight tells me all I need to know about him. If you cannot dress up for a job interview, you will not dress up for the job. I also have doubts about his 85 yard arm. I did some calculations: Drag is not fun to calculate with so I actually used some researched parameters that apply to footballs only:

http://www.wooster.edu/physics/jrIS/Files/Ryan.pdf

and calculated that in order to chuck a football 85 yards you would need a muzzle velocity of 70.27MPH (using conservative drag estimates which implies this is the lower bound, the upper bound is somewhere in the ballpark of 75 MPH).

To put that in perspective: At NFL QB challenges the typical winning distances are in the mid to high 60s which translates to a muzzle velocity of 63.1MPH. This seems much more plausible given that the fastest muzzle velocity recorded at this years combine was 63 MPH. I find it EXCEPTIONALLY hard to believe that Russell is capable of generating a velocity that is 12 to 18% higher than his nearest competition.

Now lending even less credence to this claim is that a pitcher who throws a ball 100mph would produce the same kinetic energy by throwing a football 57.7MPH. Now that does not mean that we are comparing apples to apples, there are different mechanics and intricacies involved, but this does create sort of a "sanity check." Using the same kinetic energy argument in reverse, a 70.27-75 MPH football throw is equivalent (in energy terms) to a 121.7 - 130.0 MPH fastball. Although Russell is a big, powerful guy... I do not think that these numbers are even close to plausible.

I think it is interesting that Russell went from nothing to #1 pick based on what he did ND (the same thing T. Smith did the year earlier). He is 100% hype driven, and judging by what he looked like at the combine, he seems to have bought (a long with a couple of big macs) into his own hype.

[General]

Furls,

I love it when you talk dirty. I agree 100% the guy shows up overweight for the combine, this has disaster writtne all over it.

[rawdawgexpress]

JB:

Word is (don't you miss him?) ... that Opie is in head over heels pussy-whipped "can-we-watch-a-romantic-comedy-while-I-rub-you-feet-and-you-blabber-on-and-on-about-your-day-and-people-I-don't-know" love with JMR. If this be the case, and Opie wants to bet the farm on this kid, then that's what we should do, and that's good enough for me. If this is "the guy" who Phil believe changes everything , then they should draft him and that's what I want.


rawdawg:

A good run of posts by JB.

You are correct in that if Savage traded up for Russell then he'll be forever tied to that pick. And Savage is a young man, I doubt that if Russell busts he'll get another shot at a GM job.

Russell: Savage :: Eli Manning: Ernie Accorsi. Accorsi was good for a long time but now that is how people (me) remember his career.

We all have our blind spots. Overall I feel he has been very effective at upgrading the talent on the team. But he's not been perfect- Perkins and Pool come to mind immediately. But Savage's blind spot has been QB. He straight-up fucked RAC last year by leaving him with Frye.

Now he'll bet the farm that Russell will be a game changer. I'll be shocked if he does. This goes against everything he's said about the draft and building a team the Right way. If he does pick him will reek of a kind of tragic, fatal flaw that people write about... you know, see a kid when he's young, form an emotional, almost familial, bond and have him be a failure.
ie Bill Ford, Jr, and Edward Wilson's son from "The Good Shepard".

That is, the whole situation will feel very forced.

Remember:

Best case scenario Russell equals McNabb/Roethlisberger. (at a cost of 2 #1s)

Worst care scenario Russell equals Ryan Leaf (at a cost of 2#1s)

But the even worst case scenario is if Russell is like an Eli Manning, Tim Couch, David Carr situation- where he shows flashes enough to make you keep him around, stuck in the 5th circle of hell.

But I guess you've got to take your shots.

[Guest]

Again I agree with Furls like normal.
Russell has come out of nowhere and we are going to mortgage our future for him????
Give me a break. Would he start this year???
I don't think either QB will be a star in the league and I actually would prefer Quinn over Russell.

I know our opinions mean nothing but:
The Browns have no business trading up or even thinking about it.

Damn I can't for the 28th
I love the draft

[consigliere]

Damn I can't for the 28th
I love the draft

Me too.

Although, my fear is we trade up to #1 and give up the rest of our first day picks....so the draft begins and ends at noon on Sat. We make the 1st pick, look around at each other, and say now what the fuck are we going to do?

[Dozen]

Is it me, or is this JR and Opie love affair just a little to convienent to be leaking out?

[HoodooMan]

The Browns plan is still to do everything in their power to get JaMarcus Russell at the top of the first round. The fallback position is a deal down to acquire 1-2 more first day picks and to select offensive tackle Levi Brown from Penn State.

The only thing about that that I find surprising is that Levi Brown would be the target. Shaffer, Steinbach, our rumored interest in Alleman--we appear to be headed in the direction of a zone-blocking scheme, and Brown doesn't really fit the profile. Had he said that we'd be looking to aggressively trade down at least twice (maybe initially to 8, swapping picks with ATL so they can get CJ, and then again to 14, swapping picks with CAR so they can get Landry) to take Staley, it would make more sense to me.

[yogi]

Had he said that we'd be looking to aggressively trade down at least twice (maybe initially to 8, swapping picks with ATL so they can get CJ, and then again to 14, swapping picks with CAR so they can get Landry) to take Staley, it would make more sense to me.

Yes, or using some of the 2nd round picks and trading UP from #36 to get Staley after spending 1st rounder on Carriker.

[pod2dawg]

Hoodoo & Yogi are onto it, we are doubling down & will go after Branch or Carriker 1st. Multiple picks attained will give Phil the flexibility to go after best available @ areas of need with better value. OL, corner, QB, RB

[furls]

I hope you are right.

Football success is defined more by your weaknesses than your strengths. If you are great at stopping the run, but cannot get pressure or good coverage your defense still sucks (and vice versa).

Football is the ultimate team game, one BPA is a drop in the bucket to a team with gaping holes big enough to drive a semi through.

I was sitting back the other day trying to figure out what position the indians were set at, sad thing, I could not really come up with 1.
I guess the positive way of looking at it is that no matter what position the Browns draft for, it is a position of need.

You could make a case for the Browns drafting any one of the top ten draft prospects this year, just based on need alone.

[pod2dawg]

Well said , I've been assaulted on other boards for my simplistic views, but the lack of talent Romeo inherited was unreal. Most attributed to one the worst jobs of putting a team together by previous regimes & compounded by "freakfish" injuries & "ailments."

On your point, how many Browns could have started for the Bengals, Steelers, or Ravens?

We need bodies. Upgrades will have a cumulative positive effect. Suddenly players start looking like players instead of deer in the headlights when they are not worried about just surviving out there.If you can't get one yard on third down or at least on occasion stop the run all else crumbles.

Phil could throw a dart @ the board @ we'd improve.

[Guest]

I'd be fine with JMR at #3, because I must admit that I am intrigued by his talent and potential. But I'd really wince if they had to trade up to secure his services.

Trading down would make me quite happy, and if we get Levi Brown, then I'd be fine with that. But I would prefer trading down to snag a Jamaal Anderson or an Amobi Okoye.

[buddycowley]

Russell has come out of nowhere and we are going to mortgage our future for him????

Why do people keep saying this?

JaMarcus Russell has been on NFL radars since LAST year, but you didn't hear anything about him much because he wasn't coming out, and everyone was drooling over Leinart and Young.

Christ, it sounds like the f'ing Watercooler in here with so many Chicken Littles ready to give up on the team if we draft a particular player. Anyone with the gall to say they "give up" if we draft Russell has nothing better to do but peddle their bullshit takes from behind the comfy spot in front of their computer screen.

If Savage says Russell is the guy, then Russell is the guy, come hell or high water. Hell, Savage knows that if he moves up that he is staking his entire career on the deal, so if he makes it, I sure as hell am going to trust him.

If he effs the team and the fans because JaMarcus is the 2nd coming of Ryan Leaf, then we start branding urinal cakes for CBS that have Savage on one side and Modell on the other.

Russell is the consensus #1 on just about every board because of what he might bring to the table. Shit, Levi Brown just might be Mandarich Redux, so even a trade DOWN has risk attached to it.

I still laugh at those that curse Russell with a passion, then turn around and call for Troy Smith in the 3rd. Pathetic.

Buddy

[pup]

Why do people keep saying this?

Because it is true. You might not want to admit it, but even in October, this guy was nowhere near the #1 pick in the draft. That doesn't really mean anything, accept the people that have the job to rate them didn't see it. Radars yes, #1 pick no.

Christ, it sounds like the f'ing Watercooler in here with so many Chicken Littles ready to give up on the team if we draft a particular player. Anyone with the gall to say they "give up" if we draft Russell has nothing better to do but peddle their bullshit takes from behind the comfy spot in front of their computer screen.

I do agree with this. Phil Savage could send an envelope tp the podium with JB as his #1 pick, and I will tell you JB is going to be the best, whatever position it may be player in the draft. The "I will sell my season tickets and stop cheering for them" is simply drama class coming through a computer screen.

Russell is the consensus #1 on just about every board because of what he might bring to the table

I am pretty sure Calvin Johnson is #1 on most boards, but I guess I get your point.

I still laugh at those that curse Russell with a passion, then turn around and call for Troy Smith in the 3rd. Pathetic.

Why is that? Just the cost differential is enough of a reason. Plus, one guy is a winner. One guy is, well, not a winner at this point. Is Troy Smith better than JeMarcus Russell? Probably not. But is he 120 players worth of draft picks worse? I don't think so.

[mistero]

J Marky Mark was a 2 1/2 year starter . I assure you those scouts that are paid to follow this stuff made Russell at the top of their xmas lists long before the ND game. That game changed fan opinion/focus. The scouts already had him as the number 1 QB.

People want to make him a one year Akili but those damn facts keeping getting in the way.

On the bright side, I bought some iron on letters to switch my dusty old Couch jersey over before next saturday.

I'll be the dude in the jacked up #2 Russell.

[buddycowley]

I assure you those scouts that are paid to follow this stuff made Russell at the top of their xmas lists long before the ND game. That game changed fan opinion/focus. The scouts already had him as the number 1 QB.

Bingo.

Buddy