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Mirror Chief's offense?

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Mirror Chief's offense?

Unread postby mistero » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:46 pm

General manager Phil Savage confirmed Thursday morning that the Browns are pursuing Trent Green.

Cleveland wants Green to visit and negotiate a "ballpark" contract. Savage says the Browns' offense this year will mirror the Chiefs' attack from past seasons. If they acquire Green, it's expected to be an indicator that the Browns will draft a QB, though not necessarily in the first round.


When I think CHief's offense I think passes to the TE and run,run,run. We surely have the personel to accomplish that.

To me that says no freaking way in hell, slam the door shut on Calvin Johnson.We don't need another WR to run that system. BE is plenty.

So who looks like the pick?

Does Lewis play the role of Priest Holmes to Adrian Peterson's Larry Johnson?

I can't fit the peices together but I think Phil let a gem slip out.
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Unread postby swerb » Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:00 pm

Does Lewis play the role of Priest Holmes to Adrian Peterson's Larry Johnson?

Bingo.

Sign Trent. Trade Charlie for an extra 5th or 6th rd pick. Draft APete. Come back with Sears in the 2nd. Troy Smith or Trent Edwards in the 3rd. OG, DE, CB with the rest of the picks and hope you get lucky.

And lets play ball. Pound the shit outta people with 8 Ball and APete.

Trent will avoid mistakes, and complete about 110 passes to KW2 if he god forbid can stay healthy.
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Unread postby Dozen » Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:23 pm

Swerb wrote:
Does Lewis play the role of Priest Holmes to Adrian Peterson's Larry Johnson?

Bingo.

Sign Trent. Trade Charlie for an extra 5th or 6th rd pick. Draft APete. Come back with Sears in the 2nd. Troy Smith or Trent Edwards in the 3rd. OG, DE, CB with the rest of the picks and hope you get lucky.

And lets play ball. Pound the shit outta people with 8 Ball and APete.

Trent will avoid mistakes, and complete about 110 passes to KW2 if he god forbid can stay healthy.


That would be an ideal draft for myself. I wouldnt mind that scenerio at all, and Green does know how to utilize his tightend.
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Unread postby sandlot33 » Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:28 pm

i love the idea
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Unread postby BadBecks » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:48 am

Wouldn't that signal Joe Thomas? Afterall those great Cheifs lines made Pro-Bowlers of LJ and Preist. Just a thought.
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Unread postby pup » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:23 am

Wouldn't that signal Joe Thomas? Afterall those great Cheifs lines made Pro-Bowlers of LJ and Preist. Just a thought.




Ding. Ding. Ding. Get Becks a prize!

Of course it means Joe Thomas. You are not going to bring a 40 year old, immobile QB, coming off one of the worst concussions, EVER, and have him stand behind this o-line.
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Unread postby swerb » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:44 am

Pup wrote:
Wouldn't that signal Joe Thomas? Afterall those great Cheifs lines made Pro-Bowlers of LJ and Preist. Just a thought.




Ding. Ding. Ding. Get Becks a prize!

Of course it means Joe Thomas. You are not going to bring a 40 year old, immobile QB, coming off one of the worst concussions, EVER, and have him stand behind this o-line.

There is no way the Browns are picking Joe Thomas Pup. None. Zero. Zilch. Mentally prepare yourself.
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Unread postby mistero » Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:35 am

Ding. Ding. Ding. Get Becks a prize!

Of course it means Joe Thomas. You are not going to bring a 40 year old, immobile QB, coming off one of the worst concussions, EVER, and have him stand behind this o-line.



I don't think so either. Joe Thomas will be there at 3, no need to smoke screen anyone.Hell, he'll probably be there at 10.

I think we need to move on with the o line hating. We now have an average oline, or we will once we add a guard via the draft. The big thing that killed our pass protection was Charlie holding the ball too long and scrambling away from the pocket and into the blitz. The sacks went way down with Anderson in there and that was before we added Eric Stein bach. The line will be fine.
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Unread postby pup » Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:21 am

There is no way the Browns are picking Joe Thomas Pup. None. Zero. Zilch. Mentally prepare yourself.


Someone better alert Pannini's of this impending disaster!

I think we need to move on with the o line hating. We now have an average oline, or we will once we add a guard via the draft. The big thing that killed our pass protection was Charlie holding the ball too long and scrambling away from the pocket and into the blitz. The sacks went way down with Anderson in there and that was before we added Eric Stein bach. The line will be fine.


This is what happend every offseason. At the end f the season, a poll of Browns fans would have resulted in o-line being the biggest issue. But as we get further away, all of those memories of Sunday massacres fade away and some "skill" guy gets the hot and heavy.

You will not win in the NFL with Schaefer and Tucker as your tackles. Never. Somehow signing one guard and "hopefully drafting another guard on day 1" is enough to fix the line. I don't buy it. I could be wrong, but if our QB gets killed again this year, maybe we will listen next year.

If there was not a highly regarded tackle in the top 5, I would agree. Joe Thomas could give us an o-line, anchored on the left side for the next 7 years. Forget about it. We don't need to draft a starter for the left side of the line until 2014. Boy wouldn't that be nice?

Instead we are going to take the leftovers amongst a QB who NOBODY had even worth coming out this year 6 months ago, a QB who has never once played well against top competition. I don't care about winning, but some of the games Quinn has had against the better teams are appaling.
Or we could take a running back, which grow on trees. Maybe a wide receiver, so we can be Detroit.

I don't think so either. Joe Thomas will be there at 3, no need to smoke screen anyone.Hell, he'll probably be there at 10.


Joe Thomas will not go past Arizona.
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Unread postby yogi » Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:22 am

Ding. Ding. Ding. Get Becks a prize!

Of course it means Joe Thomas. You are not going to bring a 40 year old, immobile QB, coming off one of the worst concussions, EVER, and have him stand behind this o-line.


Actually, if signing Green signals anything, it would set up drafting a young QB to sit and learn by watching a seasoned vet.

We're setting up to get a QB.
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Unread postby BadBecks » Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:48 am

Ding. Ding. Ding. Get Becks a prize!


Ok, so what do I win?
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Unread postby furls » Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:02 pm

This is what happend every offseason. At the end f the season, a poll of Browns fans would have resulted in o-line being the biggest issue. But as we get further away, all of those memories of Sunday massacres fade away and some "skill" guy gets the hot and heavy.

You will not win in the NFL with Schaefer and Tucker as your tackles. Never. Somehow signing one guard and "hopefully drafting another guard on day 1" is enough to fix the line. I don't buy it. I could be wrong, but if our QB gets killed again this year, maybe we will listen next year.

If there was not a highly regarded tackle in the top 5, I would agree. Joe Thomas could give us an o-line, anchored on the left side for the next 7 years. Forget about it. We don't need to draft a starter for the left side of the line until 2014. Boy wouldn't that be nice?


Exactly Pup. Let me tell you a story, it is pretty analagous.

I had a friend in Columbus with a finished basement. One day, he noticed that his basement smelled funny so he put in a dehumidifier. About, 2 months later he used a substantial portion of his savings to buy a boat.

The next time they had a big rain storm, his basement floor was SOAKED. He broke down and cut away some of the drywall to find a substantial crack in the basement wall. I looked at it, and it was pressure buckling, when it is that far off plumb it is easy to tell. I told him it was bad news and he needed to get someone to take a look at it. 2 weeks later I saw him and asked him what happened. He said he talked to another buddy and they told him it wasn't a big deal, it was a frost line crack, so he sealed it and closed up the wall.

I told him that I was pretty sure it was worse than that (frost line cracks aren't usually 50" or so below grade, and generally don't "stair step," but it is his house, whatever. A month later he calls me up to ask him to take the carpet out of his basement, because it is wet again and smells really bad. On my way back, I noticed that the gutters on the back of his house were MISSING. He didn't notice.

After pulling out the carpet, we put in a laminate floor in the basement. I told him it was not a good idea, those things do not hold up well under moisture (unless you buy the $$ good stuff), again, not my money or house so we put it in and he bought a new plasma TV for his nice looking room.

I shit you not, a month later his wife calls frantic. Her husband is at work and there is a bunch of water on the floor and some coming up in the seems of the laminate. I can see that the dry wall (and vapor barrier that he did not properly reinstall) were compromised, so I down some of the saturated dry wall. It crumbled away like mashed potatoes and I could not believe what I saw. All the studs were moldy and there was about a 1/2 inch crack in the wall. The plasma TV, which blew the breaker, alerting his wife to the problem, was garbage.

Needless to say, my buddy ended up calling the basement DR, and finally had to drop 12k (after getting a second mortgage) to fix his drainage and reseal and refinish his basement.

At what point are the Browns going to stop sealing the basement wall, replacing gutters, and carpets and get the damn thing water proofed? No one wants to spend the money on their foundation, everyone wants to spend their money (draft picks) on boats and TVs, but until you have a solid foundation you are just risking your TV.
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Unread postby jfiling » Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:45 pm

yogi wrote:Ding. Ding. Ding. Get Becks a prize!

Of course it means Joe Thomas. You are not going to bring a 40 year old, immobile QB, coming off one of the worst concussions, EVER, and have him stand behind this o-line.


Actually, if signing Green signals anything, it would set up drafting a young QB to sit and learn by watching a seasoned vet.

We're setting up to get a QB.


Totally agreed, and the only reason we get Green is to have him play while Brady Quinn sees how it's done. Acquiring Trent Green means we are pretty sure we're going to sit tight at #3 and draft Quinn.
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Quick Question about Trent Green....

Unread postby RC » Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:47 pm

Is he going to know which planet he's on?

I mean, Green took a HARD hit and a pretty bad concussion last year.

One more hit and he'll get Steve Younged right out of the league.

With that being said.....if they go after Green that has to mean Quinn is the pick. Does anyone think that Green, Frye and Anderson will get it done next year?
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Unread postby jb » Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:53 am

You will not win in the NFL with Schaefer and Tucker as your tackles. Never.


Which of course logically equates to an imperative to pick an offensive tackle number 3 overall.

You do realize that applying slotting logic, this means roughly 17% of the team's cap space will go to OL, don't you?

Furls, if yo were beuiling that home, do you you want 17% of your home's equity in your.... basement infrastructure?
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Unread postby pup » Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:00 am

Which of course logically equates to an imperative to pick an offensive tackle number 3 overall.


Forget, for one second, that we are picking third overall. Say we are picking 14th and the same choices are there. Then would you be ok with selecting the left tackle?

You do realize that applying slotting logic, this means roughly 17% of the team's cap space will go to OL, don't you?


So? It is roughly 25% of your starting lineup.

Furls, if yo were beuiling that home, do you you want 17% of your home's equity in your.... basement infrastructure?


I will take a stab for Furls here. Let's say this was your 5th house, and the first 4 crumbled from within due to poor offensive line play, er, foundation issues. Now I plan on being in house 5 for a long time. Then shit ya I want 17% going there.
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Unread postby jb » Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:17 am

Forget, for one second, that we are picking third overall. Say we are picking 14th and the same choices are there. Then would you be ok with selecting the left tackle?


Absolutely.

You do realize that applying slotting logic, this means roughly 17% of the team's cap space will go to OL, don't you?


So? It is roughly 25% of your starting lineup.


Is that why the franshise player pay rate averages are equal for guards and quarterbacks? C'mon Pup, you can't possibly believe this line of thought.

Furls, if yo were beuiling that home, do you you want 17% of your home's equity in your.... basement infrastructure?


I will take a stab for Furls here. Let's say this was your 5th house, and the first 4 crumbled from within due to poor offensive line play, er, foundation issues. Now I plan on being in house 5 for a long time. Then shit ya I want 17% going there.
[/quote]

You could always get crazy and pump appropriate resources in couldn't you? Not overspend, not underspend, so you can build a roof that won't turn that basment into one hell of a swimming pool?

You gotta show at Panini's, dude. Yer either gonna be the shot caller, big balled extraordinaire of the day, or get peanuts thrown at you. :lol:
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Unread postby pup » Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:17 am

Wow. Are we fucked. You are telling me we cannot tack an o-linemen in the top of the draft. Yet we are continually in the top of the draft because our line sucks. Holy circular fuckness!

Is that why the franshise player pay rate averages are equal for guards and quarterbacks? C'mon Pup, you can't possibly believe this line of thought.


Yes I can. Is it equal for 2 guards versus 1 QB? I do not know the answer, it is a legit question.

You could always get crazy and pump appropriate resources in couldn't you? Not overspend, not underspend, so you can build a roof that won't turn that basment into one hell of a swimming pool?


So, with the addition of a second round guard, you are of the opinion that we are spending the appropriate resources. We are still counting on Ryan Tucker to play RT. Head, meet wall.

You gotta show at Panini's, dude. Yer either gonna be the shot caller, big balled extraordinaire of the day, or get peanuts thrown at you.


I will be there. Can't wait. Please don't hit me with a peanut. I prefer dog bones.
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Unread postby furls » Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:58 pm

Furls, if yo were beuiling that home, do you you want 17% of your home's equity in your.... basement infrastructure?


Not really the same thing. Here is a better way of putting it:

Basement infrastructure = foundation: Would I want 83% of my home's equity sitting on a shaky foundation? Use your common sense and answer the question. Unfortunately, common sense flies out the window this time of year as everyone rushes off to best buy to get the sexy big screen TV or boat, all the while hoping the half measures on the foundation work.
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Unread postby jb » Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:34 am

So, with the addition of a second round guard, you are of the opinion that we are spending the appropriate resources. We are still counting on Ryan Tucker to play RT. Head, meet wall.


I'm not. Yer not. I can't believe the Browns would be.

OK, feel free to drop Steve Zahursky smak on me, but I thought Ike Sowells played very well at RT at season's end. Butler and Fat Dorsey are garbage, but considering Ike was a Big 10 OT, had no TC, I thought he showed.

More than that, though, I think this team remains multiple off seasons away from respectability, multiple drafts. Right now, the D is one CB away from potential respectability and goodness. This depend on a) the young LB's , b) that the DL signings were good and there are minimal injuries and the kids can rotate and not get destroyed, and c) the safeties can step up. Biut those are all plausible possibilities rather than wishful thinking. The coaches and sceme are intact.

IMhO , you wanna talk a championship team's foundation? You talk D & QB as much, or more, as OL.

If you can "finish" one side of the ball to respectability with a CB, ou almost gotta try on day one.

So that leaves you with trying to decide on a franchise QB or OLman.

Dude, this team is a couple seasons away. The O has a new coaching staff and will look at it's 5 new OC and 4th new scheme in 5 seasons. Ugh.

There is no way you can tell me the QB situation is any better than the OL situtation. Both suck, but at this point, the QB more-so. There's actually greater need there.

The way I see it we got 2 more offseasons to do the following to even think of competing for the playoffs: Get me the G or RT day one prospect this year. Get me ANOTHER next year. Get me 2 or 3 more day two OLmen for depth, and a C to develop. Get me a starting qaulity CB to pair w/ Bodden. Get me an impact DE and day one DE, and more of day two for depth. Get me a hoss RB to spell 8 Ball.

But I also need a QB like Rosie needs a diet and muzzle.

I don't believe we can wait 3 to 4 seasons to develop a project QB the right way, the type of guy who gets sleecetd in round 3 or later. I want a fuckin' stud talent at the position when I have to deal with Palmer & Ben for the forseeable future. Best chance to do that is when they are there.

I can't get too upset at the order of how that gets done, tho. We need it all.
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Unread postby pup » Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:10 am

JB- You make great points. They are nearly impossible to refute. It is just a manner of the order that all of the fixing gets done. There is a lot of work to do, no doubt.

I just feel like we have been saying, get the o-line fixed later for a long freaking time. I don't want to wait any longer. If Joe Thomas is a top 5 grade, then get it over with. If we wait until next year, there will still be holes to fill, other than LT and we can have the same conversation.

We are talking about closing holes with this team. The d-line need an infusion of youth, but should be serviceable. The LBers are what they are at this point. The secondary needs another corner, who could come in round 2. Now we are not taking a OL until the 3rd. That ain't getting it done.

Taking Joe Thomas gives you a good offensive line, today. The left side is finished for 7 years. Fraley (keep fingers crossed for LCB in 08) is solid at center, especially with good guards next to him. Shaefer could be a potential top 10 RT. With all those guys you mentioned being in competition for the RG spot, and having solid depth on the line. It just seems to make too much sense to me.

Nobody else we will draft on the 28th has the potential to make so many other positions better. Joe Thomas allows us to run the ball better. He let's us pass the ball better. He let's us keep the ball on offense longer, making the defense better because they are not on the field so much.

You have to start somewhere. The o-line is what makes things go. Why not make it the best it can possibly be? Then it becomes easier to evaluate EVERYTHING else more exactly.
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