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Schaub dealt to Houston for 2nd rounder plus....

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Schaub dealt to Houston for 2nd rounder plus....

Unread postby yogi » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:37 pm

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10078226

OOOh, the worm turns.

It now appears that Houston doesn't have needs for Peterson & Quinn!

How this trade affects us other than the trade down scenario w/ Atlanta for Schaub rumors end, I'm not quite sure.

Of course, David Carr has become cheaper and more available by the minute!
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Unread postby swede » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:08 pm

If Mr Blank wants to make a draft-day splash, and at the same time keeping Calvin Johnson away from the Bucs, he just got himself some more ammo to move up. How it works according to the chart, I don´t know, but that high second-rounder and something more, could be something for Savage and the browns if they wan´t to trade down. I don´t know if the 10th pick is too far down for Savage, but if he can steal both if the Falcons second-round picks, that could be something.

Of course, I´m just speculating like everyone else. But, the " keep CJ in Georgia" chants might be ringing hard in Blank´s head.
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Unread postby Guest » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:15 pm

I don't think this necessarily changes anything. I didn't see Houston in the market to draft a QB anyway, and Atlanta sure as hell isn't going to nab a QB in the 1st round either.

The only way this makes a big difference is if David Carr now goes to one of the teams at the top of the draft heap that are in the Russell/Quinn derby.

Probably a good move by ATL - they get a high 2nd rounder and get rid of a QB controversy. Questionable by Houston - I'm not sure Schaub's all that, and they still get stuck with that roster bonus they gave Carr last year when they opted to skip on Vince Young.
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Unread postby Guest » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:18 pm

swede wrote:If Mr Blank wants to make a draft-day splash, and at the same time keeping Calvin Johnson away from the Bucs, he just got himself some more ammo to move up. How it works according to the chart, I don´t know, but that high second-rounder and something more, could be something for Savage and the browns if they wan´t to trade down. I don´t know if the 10th pick is too far down for Savage, but if he can steal both if the Falcons second-round picks, that could be something.

Of course, I´m just speculating like everyone else. But, the " keep CJ in Georgia" chants might be ringing hard in Blank´s head.

Good point, Swede.

I would take that in a heartbeat. Move down to #10, pick up two high 2nd rounders, and then take a guy like Jamaal Anderson or Alan Branch or even Marshawn Lynch.
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Re: Schaub dealt to Houston for 2nd rounder plus....

Unread postby Birdieman » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:19 pm

Well poopie.
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Unread postby pup » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:33 pm

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6594578

Jay Glazer reports the deal is:

The Houston Texans and Atlanta Falcons are on the verge of a trade that has wide-ranging ramifications for two quarterbacks once chosen No. 1 overall in the draft.

The Falcons are on the verge of agreeing to trade quarterback Matt Schaub to the Texans in exchange for a swapping of first-rounders this year, a second-round pick in this year's draft and a second-round pick in the 2008 draft.
The move clearly shows that Michael Vick will remain the starting quarterback in Atlanta, quashing reports and rumors at the end of last year the team wasn't married to him as a starter. It also marks what is likely the end of David Carr's reign in Houston after being selected by former GM Charley Casserly with the club's first-ever draft pick.

The deal, which was pretty much agreed to on Monday, has been held up by a few things. Schaub is a restricted free agent and Atlanta, knowing they'd lose him in free agency next year, chose to collect something for him.

The 6-5, 237-pound Virginia alum has only started two games in his career, but his size, coupled with his performances in the preseason, has made him a hot prospect inside the NFL.

Schaub is now trying to work out a long-term deal with the Texans. While the trade is not yet finalized, it's expected to be completed today.
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Unread postby Guest » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:48 pm

Pup wrote:The Falcons are on the verge of agreeing to trade quarterback Matt Schaub to the Texans in exchange for a swapping of first-rounders this year, a second-round pick in this year's draft and a second-round pick in the 2008 draft.

Wow. Two 2nds and a swap of 1st round picks? The Falcons made out like bandits.

Now, if ATL packaged some of their 2nds and #8, we could move down and possibly even find Adrian Peterson still sitting there.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:50 pm

I know this comment really doesn't concern the draft but, Atlanta now needs a quarterback.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:50 pm

So the Falcons move up to #7 AND get get a 2007 2nd and 2008 2nd? Jesus. Kudos to them.

And, if the Falcons REALLY want CJ, I'm listening now. I believe we can get one of the two QBs, A Pete or Thomas at #7 still if we trade down with them and pick up a 2nd rounder and another pick or two.
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Unread postby Birdieman » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:10 pm

Pup wrote:http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6594578

Jay Glazer reports the deal is:

The Houston Texans and Atlanta Falcons are on the verge of a trade that has wide-ranging ramifications for two quarterbacks once chosen No. 1 overall in the draft.

The Falcons are on the verge of agreeing to trade quarterback Matt Schaub to the Texans in exchange for a swapping of first-rounders this year, a second-round pick in this year's draft and a second-round pick in the 2008 draft.
The move clearly shows that Michael Vick will remain the starting quarterback in Atlanta, quashing reports and rumors at the end of last year the team wasn't married to him as a starter. It also marks what is likely the end of David Carr's reign in Houston after being selected by former GM Charley Casserly with the club's first-ever draft pick.

The deal, which was pretty much agreed to on Monday, has been held up by a few things. Schaub is a restricted free agent and Atlanta, knowing they'd lose him in free agency next year, chose to collect something for him.

The 6-5, 237-pound Virginia alum has only started two games in his career, but his size, coupled with his performances in the preseason, has made him a hot prospect inside the NFL.

Schaub is now trying to work out a long-term deal with the Texans. While the trade is not yet finalized, it's expected to be completed today.


Art Blank moves ever closer at #7 to CJ, and is loaded with extra goodies to get to #2 or 3. DET has to be his target dontcha think? That would ensure Phil of getting BQ or JR. Of course none of this could go down til draft day because OAK could take CJ. But then maybe OAK is Blank's target. Wow.

I like Schaub but HOU just got hoodwinked. Phil is a happy man right now. We should be too.
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Schaub

Unread postby rawdawgexpress » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:33 pm

Good post Birdieman.

Yes, this really clarifies everything. Its seems now that Atlanta will trade up and get Johnson. If its above us (to Detroit or Oak) then we wait and get a QB. If we trade down to #8 then we get AP or the best DL plus at least a 2nd rounder.

I'd prefer the tradedown and get AP, and then the best CB and Guard in the early 2nd. Like a jilted lover, I feel taking Russell or Quinn is too risky. So going into the 3rd round we would just have the gaping holes at DL and QB. So we take a DL in the third and give our 4th for David Carr. And Voila- 8-8.
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Unread postby yogi » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:39 pm

So the Falcons move up to #7 AND get get a 2007 2nd and 2008 2nd? Jesus. Kudos to them.

And, if the Falcons REALLY want CJ, I'm listening now. I believe we can get one of the two QBs, A Pete or Thomas at #7 still if we trade down with them and pick up a 2nd rounder and another pick or two.


Consig, correction needed here.... The Falcons would own #8 overall not 7. That pick still belongs to Minny.

But this is all good news for us, if we want to trade down and if CJ is available at 3. Because we'll have three possible ways to go with Tampa (4), Minny (7) and Atl (8).

All three have been rumored to be in love w/ CJ and need to get at least up to us because Tampa will surely pick CJ at 4.

Detroit can complicate matters at #2 , but if they trade it, that means we'll have to end up with Russell or Quinn.

I don't see a negative here unless you hate Russell, Quinn or Peterson.

The BEST news is we should NOT have to trade UP to get a QB. That was my biggest fear. Trading up and giving away picks.
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Unread postby pup » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:48 pm

And still a shitty o-line. Super.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:58 pm

Pup wrote:And still a shitty o-line. Super.


Oh, come on. So the selection of Joe Thomas solves all problems? :mrgreen:

The additions in FA plus a selection or two on Day 1 in the draft will go a long way at making this line better. Whether we take Joe Thomas in the 1st round, or one of the o-lineman in the 2nd and/or 3rd rounds. I don't see an advantage of absolutely taking Thomas with the first pick, when there will be several o-lineman rated very high available with the 2nd and even 3rd round pick....whereas at QB the pickings drop considerably after Quinn/Russell. Joe Thomas isn't that much of a difference maker over some of the guys avail in the 2nd/3rd rounds.
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Unread postby pup » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:57 pm

Left tackles are as much of a difference maker as any position in this draft. If you draft one of those guards in the 2nd round, you are still looking at either Ryan Tucker at RT or shitty guard play once again if Steinbech gets shifted to LT.

I don't really see it with these QB's for one. JeMarcus Russell has bust written all over him. A lot of guys have great arms. It takes so much more than that. Has he ever raised a team to a higher level then the talent around him? No. If anything, in LSU's losses he has disapeared. The guy wasn't even projected to come out this year 6 months ago, now we think he is the answer?

If you cannot block people, it does not matter what else you have. Ask Arizona. If you can block people, it elevates every player on your team, even defense. A little ball control will mean so much to this defense. Instead, we will still have a shitty offense, the defense will keep them in games early on before getting exhausted and beat down.

I have said many times. If Russell or Quinn falls to 3 and Phil feels one of them is a top 5 QB in this leage within 3 years, then I can't fault him for taking them. If he is wrong, it will be a long time before this ever gets turned around.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:11 pm

Just a comment on the "how has he performed in big games" factor people seem to like to use for college QBs. I just don't see the relevance here. T Martin played well in big games. So did Craig Krenzel. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady never won a big game in college. It is really a moot and irrelevant point if you ask me.

It is nice and all, but I could give two craps how many big games a college QB won. I've just as many big gamer winners fail in the NFL as the big game schmucks have. YMMV.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:44 pm

To say big games don't matter is just silly. Look, let's not take things too literally here. Big games in this regard have a broader definition than your are interpreting. Peyton Manning never won the whole enchilada in college, too say he never won a big game is just nonsense. The guy beat plenty of ranked opponents in the toughest conference in the country, more importantly he proved his salt against the better D's. You will find many more success stories from QB's who played well against better competition in bigger games than those who didn't, and it won't be close. Tee Martin and Krenzel have nothing to do with this conversation concerning premier draft choices. They would be more suited to a thread on managing a game within a big time program, or something of that ilk.

The fact of the matter is that Russell is getting an inordinant amount of pop based on physical skills rather than game results. All Pup is saying is that this is dangerous, especially when you consider a pick this valuable.

Think about your favorite sport Consig, and your modern day theories you consider valid. Do you want the pitcher that throws 97 consistently with average minor league numbers, but great gun readings or do you want the guy who throws 93 with excellent numbers, a guy that gets people out. My point is, with a pick this valuable, you should be getting a guy that throws 98 AND has great numbers across the board. Russell would throw the heater 100mph, but I still don't know if he can get people out.
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Unread postby consigliere » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:49 am

So, in a nutshell Pipes, you are saying Russel is Jason Davis? :mrgreen:
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Unread postby wmurphyhh » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:27 pm

If ATL is willing to swap 1st rounders and give both second round picks, we'd be crazy not to do the deal...

Yes, we'd be giving up the possibility of drafting Thomas. If Detroit doesn't take him, TB or Arizona would.

We could end up getting the guy they want at 8 anyways. Maybe AP or Quinn. Hell, 3 picks in the top 10 of the second round! Wow...

I agree with Pup that the line needs to be addressed. I've been campaigning since the middle of the season for JT. Yet, we'd have so much flexibility with 3 picks in the 2nd round:
We could get Grubbs, Sears, and a top tier CB.
If we draft Quinn at 8, we could get Michael Bush, a DT, and a OL.
We could trade two of those picks to move up into the 1st round and snag Joe Staley.
Endless possibilities...

Could the football gods shine down on us one time ? A trade like this could make up for that year we traded our 2nd round pick to Detroit to move up 1 spot...you remember the trade that caused half of Swerb's draft party to leave!
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Unread postby jb » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:08 pm

Pup wrote:Left tackles are as much of a difference maker as any position in this draft.


Nahh.

They score no TD's.

They prevent no TD's.

They make no impact plays.

They are overvalued and no more important than any other OLman. You need a good LINE, not a good OLT.

Yes, I understand FB and why people overvalue OLT's.

Truely.
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Unread postby pup » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:23 pm

In the immortal words of Dwight Clark....


Yes, I understand FB and why people overvalue OLT's.
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Unread postby wmurphyhh » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:30 pm

How much of a drop off between Joe Thomas and Joe Staley ?

Staley's a converted TE - he can drop a few pounds and play TE if K2 is out for the year...bad joke.
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Unread postby jb » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:37 pm

Pup wrote:In the immortal words of Dwight Clark....


Yes, I understand FB and why people overvalue OLT's.


Lomas Brown and Roman Oben were highly paid UFAs who played on SB teams after they left Cleveland. They were better than anyone that Butch or Phil has put there.

Try another red herring that works better, or it'd be more fun to talk about the actual question at hand, but that's just me.

A good OLT on a good OL with great skilled position players is far better than the myth of a "franchise" (chortle) OLT with a fair OL and average skilled position players.
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some facts

Unread postby jb » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:44 pm

wmurphyhh wrote:How much of a drop off between Joe Thomas and Joe Staley ?

Staley's a converted TE - he can drop a few pounds and play TE if K2 is out for the year...bad joke.



http://www.drafthistory.com/positions/t.html

Really inspires you to draft tackles in roiund one...
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Unread postby pup » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:18 am

Try another red herring that works better, or it'd be more fun to talk about the actual question at hand, but that's just me.


Little testy about the Dwight Clark refernce?

A good OLT on a good OL with great skilled position players is far better than the myth of a "franchise" (chortle) OLT with a fair OL and average skilled position players


You coming or going here? I want them to draft a premier left tackle to have a good OL. A left tackle alone doesn't do you any good, I know that. My belief is they are 1 or 2 good players away from having that line. They still need a tackle and a guard. The have a chance to add the best LT that is available.

How much of a drop off between Joe Thomas and Joe Staley ?


Staley won't be there in round 2. Things can and will change come draft day. If they are able to make some moves to get some picks, then use them to move back to the bottom of round 1 and Staley is there, go ahead. Just address the line. That is all.
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Unread postby wmurphyhh » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:52 am

OK. Move down with ATL and then move back into the 1st round with NE.
They are always looking for more pics.

Grab Staley at 24 and then trade for Lorenzen from the NYG. With him at QB, it would be like having 3 tackles.

When was the last time the Browns had 2 1st rounders ? Newsome and Clay ?
Isn't it time something good happens in this town ?
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